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iMac

MacBook

Magic Mouse
Apple continues to roll out new products

Not content with running up the scoreboard when it comes to quarterly earnings, Apple today unveiled a slew of new products aimed at pulling more consumers into its Mac-centric family. The new product onslaught includes new new iMacs, a revamped Mac mini, a new MacBook, and a new multi-touch Bluetooth mouse.

First up is the the new iMac line which now features high resolution 16:9 displays. The new iMacs are available in 21.5" and 27" flavors in resolutions ranging from 1920x1080 to 2560x1440. The "low-end" 21.5" model will come packing a 3.06GHz Core 2 Duo processor, GeForce 9400M graphics, 4GB of RAM and a 500GB HDD. The 27" model will be available with ATI Radeon HD 4670 or ATI Radeon HD 4850 discrete graphics -- Core i5 and Core i7 quad-core processors will also be available next month. Prices will start at $1,199 for the 21.5" iMac and $1,699 for the 27" iMac.

Moving on to the Mac mini, Apple has made the usual spec bumps here and there to keep the product relevant in today's market. Base systems now come with a 2.26GHz processor and 2GB of RAM -- the price tag is a still hefty $599 and you still have to purchase a monitor to get it running.

Perhaps the more interesting addition to the Mac mini family is a new model priced at $999 which comes pre-installed with Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server. This particular model incorporates two 500GB HDDs. Other features include a 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo processor and 4GB of RAM.

Moving on to the notebook side of things, Apple has finally updated the look of its hugely popular MacBook. The new MacBook features a "unibody" polycarbonate body, LED-backlit 13" display, multi-touch trackpad, and a built-in battery which offers up to 7 hours of battery life. The 4.7-pound notebook comes equipped with a 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo processor, 250GB HDD, 2GB of RAM, and a GeForce 9400M IGP. The MacBook no longer features a Firewire port -- you'll have to upgrade to the more expensive MacBook Pros to get that feature. The MacBook retains its price of $999.

Finally, Apple is taking yet another stab at creating a mouse for its computers. Apple's previous attempts at mice have been less than popular with users, but the company hopes to strike gold with the new Magic Mouse. The Bluetooth mouse -- for better or worse -- continues with just a single button. However, it has multi-touch capabilities similar to the multi-touch trackpads on the current MacBooks and MacBook Pros. The mouse will retail for $69.



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iBoring
By chmilz on 10/20/2009 1:57:14 PM , Rating: 4
Nothing to see here folks, unless fresh dirt on that old pig gets you excited.

87 revisions later and still only one button on their mouse. Mine has 8, programmable, and something Apple claims to know about but only puts on their MP3 players: a wheel.




RE: iBoring
By nafhan on 10/20/2009 2:19:58 PM , Rating: 3
I'll have to check it out to be sure, but it can't be any worse than the Mighty Mouse®


RE: iBoring
By talozin on 10/20/2009 3:52:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'll have to check it out to be sure, but it can't be any worse than the Mighty Mouse®


Never tried a Logitech Cyberman (http://incolor.com/bill_r/logitech_cyberman.htm), have you?

But yeah -- Apple has not had a good track record with mice. The Mighty Mouse is actually not terrible if all you want is a one-button mouse -- I find the little scroll wheel more convenient, in some ways, than the larger versions. The shape is fine, oceans better than the hockey pucks (a bad idea when DEC tried them, and not any better when Apple did). The tracking is adequate, not super-high-precision but adequate. It's a good one-button mouse. Not great, but good.

But the "two button" feature is basically unusable. Even if you just have a finger resting on the other side of the mouse, and not actually pressing down -- you know, the way everyone on the planet actually holds a mouse -- it registers. Using it on an OS that actually expects more than one mouse button is an exercise in frustration.

Apple makes some nice stuff. It would be nice if they could make a mouse than doesn't suck.


RE: iBoring
By headbox on 10/20/09, Rating: -1
RE: iBoring
By damianrobertjones on 10/20/2009 4:18:17 PM , Rating: 2
Not sure if you get the point.. Apple insist on pushing one button mice whereas we all know that more than one button makes sense.


RE: iBoring
By talozin on 10/20/2009 4:39:20 PM , Rating: 3
Apple insist on pushing one button mice whereas we all know that more than one button makes sense.

I'm honestly kind of agnostic on the whole number of buttons question. If you're using OS X, one button is fine. Windows prefers two. When I used X Windows more often than once upon a never, I preferred three. World of Warcraft players would probably prefer the aforementioned 59. Whatever; use what you work best with, I don't care how many buttons it involves.

And, as I say, the Mighty Mouse is a perfectly fine one-button mouse. I don't say it sucks as a two-button mouse because I'm an anti-Apple zealot (in fact, I find the idea downright amusing); I say it because it actually does suck as a two-button mouse.

This is in contrast to Apple's laptop keyboards (which I find fit my style of typing extremely well) and trackpads (the only trackpads I have ever felt comfortable using). The old Extended Keyboard II was great. The current Apple Keyboard makes a pretty good fit for my laptop-adapted self. Apple has made great interface devices; it's just the mice that they can't seem to get right.


RE: iBoring
By Dennis Travis on 10/20/2009 6:03:09 PM , Rating: 2
What a few people are wondering is if you still have to lift the Left finger to get the right click on the new mouse? I guess time will tell. I sure hope they fixed that!


RE: iBoring
By piroroadkill on 10/21/2009 3:39:20 AM , Rating: 2
WoW is pretty much the most popular game there is, and is available on OS X, and would be entirely unplayable with one button, or indeed, lame with mighty mouse (chording left and right is impossible with mighty mouse)


RE: iBoring
By sebmel on 10/21/2009 9:50:41 AM , Rating: 2
Having read the discussion here it is pretty clear that many people don't understand why Apple persists with offering one button mouse functionality. I say one button mouse functionality because not since the hockey puck mouse have they actually made a purely one button mouse.

One need to be very clear on DT so I'll state the obvious, I am not defending the quality of Apple mice... the hockey puck swivelled... the oval mouse had no natural position in the hand... the might mouse gummed up and was uncleanable.

I am simply explaining the one button OPTION that Apple promotes by offering mice that by default are one button. The reason for it is to force good programming. Apple does not want the Windows problem of 'right-click and hope'. Apple want all options for a program to exist within the Menu Bar. If after that programmers wish to offer contextual menus they are welcome to but they CANNOT hide options only in contextual menus because they wouldn't be available to one button mouse users.

So there it is. The greater cross app consistency on the Mac compared to Windows isn't an accident. It exists because Apple pushes it... makes it unavoidable. Having done that they let you plug in any mouse, trackpad or trackball your heart desires.


RE: iBoring
By BlendMe on 10/20/2009 7:48:15 PM , Rating: 3
You won't believe it, but there are people that find a two button mouse confusing. I didn't believe it myself, even after getting to know 3 such people.

The point is more != better.

And if you're the 8-programmable-button-type, you won't be using any mouse that came with your OEM PC.

The Magic Mouse sounds interesting with all that multi-touch and I think it looks good. Definitely sucks for most gaming due to lack of a proper CLICK-wheel, but I bet it works for most people using a Mac (why else would you get one?).

Anyways, hope to get my hands on one soon, just to give it a try.

The iMacs got the Core i5/7 which is great. The high-end model 27", i5, 4GB DDR3, Radeon HD 4850 at $1999 (€1799) is kinda expensive. But on the other hand you get a great form factor and that 2560 x 1440 pixel, IPS, LED-backlit panel is definitely worth something.


RE: iBoring
By Alexstarfire on 10/20/2009 9:50:26 PM , Rating: 2
I love having a lot of button on my mouse. Makes playing games MUCH easier. That said, the idea of using gestures like you would on a Macbook on a mouse just seems retarded. Why wouldn't they just include a trackpad instead of an actual mouse. Seems far more useful considering you won't have to worry about the mouse slipping out of your hand.


RE: iBoring
By bodar on 10/21/2009 1:50:42 AM , Rating: 2
Right, because people who who can't wrap their brain around a 2-button system will have no trouble remembering what multi-touch gestures activate which commands. Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of the Magic Mouse for general computing (i.e., non-gaming), but it's still more of a power-user feature. People who are lost by left click vs right click will be lost regardless.

http://www.mactipper.com/2009/01/complete-list-of-...


RE: iBoring
By Spivonious on 10/20/2009 4:18:28 PM , Rating: 3
No but my PC came with a 4 button mouse with a wheel.


RE: iBoring
By seamonkey79 on 10/20/09, Rating: 0
RE: iBoring
By seamonkey79 on 10/20/2009 4:38:03 PM , Rating: 3
Oh, it also came with a 19" LCD, dual core Athlon X2 CPU and 2GB of RAM... I honestly can't remember hard drive, but it was upwards of 250GB... somewhere on a shelf, I would suppose...

maybe I should have picked up four of them, then I could feel superior because I spent $1200 on computers.


RE: iBoring
By otispunkmeyer on 10/20/2009 4:48:44 PM , Rating: 3
what u chumps on about? 1 button?

i have the Wireless MM and it has two buttons... fair do's theres one physical button but depending where you press u get left and right click just like any other mouse and the scroll ball is clicky too and works just like any mouse

the only crummy bit is that the scroll ball clogs up with dirt and stops scrolling in ohhhh sayy five minutes of use.


RE: iBoring
By Nimon on 10/21/2009 8:51:39 PM , Rating: 2
You do know the Mighty Mouse is a 2 button mouse (left and right) only older one's were single


RE: iBoring
By Don321 on 10/20/2009 2:39:42 PM , Rating: 2
I have been far more productive since I've been using the multi-touch trackpad on my MacBook, and with those features on the new mouse it should be a great product, and I look forward to using one. I don't really care that your mouse is smothered in buttons, if I can use gestures in the way I can on my laptop trackpad then I'm sure I'll be as productive with it as I am there. If you think just covering a mouse in buttons makes it a good design then good for you, but keep your unjustified anti-mac rubbish to yourself.


RE: iBoring
By chmilz on 10/20/2009 2:48:30 PM , Rating: 3
Have fun performing a 3-finger side swipe to go forward/back in Safari on your iMac with your mouse without flinging it off the counter. I'll use the buttons conveniently located directly under my thumb.

Multitouch touchpad on a laptop is good, on a mouse, not so good.


RE: iBoring
By DC2529 on 10/20/2009 11:06:27 PM , Rating: 3
Actually, since you don't have to use a finger to move the mouse, you only need one finger to scroll, two fingers to go forward/back in safari, etc.


RE: iBoring
By Spuke on 10/20/2009 2:54:46 PM , Rating: 5
If you think not covering a mouse in buttons makes it a good design then good for you, but keep your unjustified anti-PC rubbish to yourself.


RE: iBoring
By icanhascpu on 10/20/2009 5:49:29 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
but keep your unjustified anti-PC rubbish to yourself.


If only more DT readers could do that.


RE: iBoring
By pxavierperez on 10/21/2009 4:39:20 PM , Rating: 2
I forget that PC users are those really slow types that must have everything be explained like a two years old. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Mighty Mouse can simulate a right and left click.


RE: iBoring
By themaster08 on 10/21/2009 5:22:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I forget that PC users are those really slow types that must have everything be explained like a two years old.

Hence the Mac was created....


RE: iBoring
By Roffles on 10/20/09, Rating: 0
RE: iBoring
By GaryJohnson on 10/20/2009 2:46:30 PM , Rating: 4
Depending on how you look at it, the magic mouse doesn't actually have ANY buttons... or it has an infenite amount of them. Sounds cool, looks stupid, and may or may not be horribly flawed in execution.


RE: iBoring
By ChristopherO on 10/20/2009 3:19:20 PM , Rating: 4
Actually, almost everyone will admit that Apple makes nice looking things. I'm not trying to get into a usability argument, but their designs are *good*. Not for everyone's tastes, but attractive for most.

The problem is that they even make their mice and keyboards look good. I don't care how my mouse and keyboard looks. Only that it doesn't give me painful carpal tunnel later in life. The idea of a "touch mouse" is novel, but generally it seems a little unnatural to play your fingers across the top surface. It seems a lot more sense to put the buttons where your fingers naturally rest. The reason all the Logitech and MS mice look darn near the same is that they've collectively spent a few hundred million on ergonomics research.

I know you can use just about any USB keyboard/mouse with a Mac, but still. I would have thought Apple's designs for interface devices would have emphasized comfort. Instead everything they make seems to go for that "white" industrial design look. It's like getting lost in the computer equivalent of IKEA.


RE: iBoring
By AmishElvis on 10/20/2009 6:13:38 PM , Rating: 3
Their designs are *pretty*. This is not always the same thing as good.


RE: iBoring
By talozin on 10/20/2009 6:57:25 PM , Rating: 3
Too true. The old 8100 series Power Macs were sexy as hell on the outside, an utter nightmare to work on once you got the cover off. Not unlike many hot but crazy ... computers.

They've gotten better at this with their "user-serviceable" systems. The Mac Pro not only looks great (in a you-will-be-assimilated kind of way), it's super easy to work inside, too. I'd pay extra for PC parts that let me mount my components in a similar way ... the problem there is that there's just too many different pieces. Buy a boutique PC, I guess, but that kind of defeats the whole point of getting better performance cheaper.

The lack of height adjustment on the monitors bugs me, but the monitors are otherwise well designed. The lack of angle adjustment on their more recent keyboards, likewise. I guess they couldn't figure out a way to make it aesthetically pleasing, and it's not something I miss the majority of the time, but it'd be nice to have.


RE: iBoring
By Totally on 10/20/2009 10:45:30 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, that is the loosest use of the word 'sexy' I've seen to date.


RE: iBoring
By Pippy on 10/20/2009 5:20:28 PM , Rating: 2
Dunnog wtf you're talking about but I have no problem with right and left click on my mighty mouse.


RE: iBoring
By Reclaimer77 on 10/20/2009 7:09:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Perhaps the more interesting addition to the Mac mini family is a new model priced at $999 which comes pre-installed with Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server. This particular model incorporates two 500GB HDDs. Other features include a 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo processor and 4GB of RAM.


Exactly. I mean, this is their overhaul ? These are the exact spec's of my FOUR year old PC that I'm writing this from. If I tried charging someone a grand for this rig, I would be laughed at. But this is a big move from Apple ? lmao...


RE: iBoring
By BZDTemp on 10/21/2009 6:40:31 AM , Rating: 3
lmao on how uninformed you come across!

Perhaps you should look at the size of the thing and it's purpose before comparing with your PC. The Mac Mini is a small box not much larger than 5-6 CD cases that uses very little power. It started out as a small entry level Mac for those wanting to try out the Apple world and/or those which desire a small stylish computer for anything but gaming (and other high power jobs). As it turned out the thing was so well made it runs 24-7 just fine and it's useful for all kinds of smaller server jobs.

I'm sure a company like Macminicolo will think it's great there now is a model without the optical drive and a second hard drive instead.

Check out their operation here:
http://www.macminicolo.net/facility.html

PS. Price wise you also need to count in the server OS when comparing with your PC. A Windows Server license is not exactly free.


RE: iBoring
By Reclaimer77 on 10/21/2009 8:46:41 AM , Rating: 1
Ok you're an idiot. I could make a sever farm out of 500 486's and talk it up all day that it's the most efficient and high tech server farm on the planet, but that doesn't make it true.

The idea of using mac mini's, or any type of Mac for that matter, in a server farm is retarded. Mac's absolutely stink for any kind of serious server applications. The whole world knows this. Tell you what, go find me the number of Apples market share in global server use-share. I would be surprised if 1% of all servers are Mac's.

quote:
I'm sure a company like Macminicolo will think it's great there now is a model without the optical drive and a second hard drive instead.


Yes I think it's great that their two drive setup now equals one terrabyte. That would have been big news in the server market FOUR YEARS AGO. Do you know how silly you sound ??

Trying to push outdated gear with inferior storage space as a high tech server farm to prove Mac's are viable for heavy lifting is simply absurd. Congratulations, you found one company with more stuborness than brains. It doesn't prove your point.


RE: iBoring
By pxavierperez on 10/20/09, Rating: -1
RE: iBoring
By Alexstarfire on 10/20/2009 9:57:14 PM , Rating: 1
Lol, I was with you until your last paragraph. Makes you sound a lot like Pirks. Quite coincidentally I misspelled Pirks and it comes out priks. Wonder if he made his name that way on purpose?

Anyway, I don't even want to retort against someone as ignorant as you, regarding your last paragraph, so I'll just say that you gave me a good laugh.


RE: iBoring
By Boze on 10/21/09, Rating: 0
RE: iBoring
By themaster08 on 10/21/2009 2:46:00 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
I understand that most Win users are extremely jealous of Apple's products. But is it Apple's fault that most of you Win users can't afford to buy Apple's products.

Wow, you sound extremely insecure with your 10 year old "you're just jealous" attitude. But then again, I guess you'd have to be in order to have bought a Mac in the first place.

It's not that we can't afford. My guess is that many peoples' gaming rigs cost a lot more than your pretty looking Mac toy. It's that common sense compels us not to.

It may not occur to you, but most people don't buy a computer so that they can feel somewhat superior to everyone else. Only an idiot would do such a thing.


RE: iBoring
By pxavierperez on 10/21/2009 7:06:43 AM , Rating: 1
Imagine that, feeling proud about spending money for a game rig that does nothing but to play games on? and you call a mac a toy? that's why i find most Win users pathetic. you see i get a Mac to do my work on, to be productive. you know, like making money. Not to sit on my ass 24/7 playing games. and you call that common sense? boy, turn off that game rig and get out of your mum's basement, get a life. most importantly get a job. stop living off your parent's money for once.

and no one buys a Mac to feel superior those are practices of typical Win users who brag about their graphic cards, cpu, etc. And all that for what? Just to play games with.

You see, in general the typical Mac users are just exponentially smarter to begin with than a Win user hence they buy a Mac because they want something where everything just work. Everyone know OS X is light years ahead than the overpriced Windows 7 Service Pack. And Win users feel proud paying hundreds of dollars for a bug fix. Imagine that. Only losers have home parties for some software launch.


RE: iBoring
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/21/2009 8:10:43 AM , Rating: 2
ROFL ROFL ROFL

/me dies laughing.....

Wow.....just...wow....


RE: iBoring
By themaster08 on 10/21/2009 9:31:01 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Imagine that, feeling proud about spending money for a game rig that does nothing but to play games on?

Nobody said anything about feeling proud. Insecure much?

Furthermore, a gaming rig does not have to consist of just playing games. That may be it's primary function, but it can be far more productive in other areas also.

quote:
that's why i find most Win users pathetic. you see i get a Mac to do my work on, to be productive. you know, like making money. Not to sit on my ass 24/7 playing games.

If that's what you want to believe, then feel free. Whatever helps you sleep at night. The rest of us will continue to laugh at your asinine statements.

quote:
get a life. most importantly get a job.

I have a great life thank you. One of which I don't feel the need to prove my self-worth over a piece of plastic. Furthermore, how could I afford a gaming rig more expensive than your cute little toy without having a well paid job? Please stop contradicting yourself.

quote:
and no one buys a Mac to feel superior those are practices of typical Win users who brag about their graphic cards, cpu, etc. And all that for what? Just to play games with.

Then why do you continue to try and prove yourself and that your Mac is superior?

A PC is what it is, it's personal, therefore used for whatever purpose the end user wishes. I understand that concept may be alien to a Mac zealot such as yourself, with the Apple lock-in, but that's how it is for the rest of us.

quote:
You see, in general the typical Mac users are just exponentially smarter to begin with than a Win user

You're hardly proving your apparent intelligence right now. To me you sound like a spoiled 12 year old, insecure in case someone has something better than you.

quote:
they want something where everything just work.

Please stop regurgitating lines from Apple's marketing campaign, it's cringe worthy.

quote:
Everyone know OS X is light years ahead than the overpriced Windows 7 Service Pack.

Please, don't get me started on OSX 10.6, that's even less of a service pack than Windows 7 supposedly is.

quote:
Only losers have home parties for some software launch.

Only losers queue up in lines for hours and hours on end and camp outside overnight in the freezing cold, just to get their hands on the latest Crapple toy.


RE: iBoring
By pxavierperez on 10/21/2009 4:31:26 PM , Rating: 2
Sure a PC gaming rig can do other things. But you only know how to use it for games. that's about the extent of a typical Win user's intelligence.

looks like you're the insecure one, getting all emotional and teary with your response. Sad. Really sad.

Just face the facts kiddo. Apple's products are ahead of the curve. Every time they release a product, every PC vendors panic and try to follow. Dell and other are copying the iMac. Everyone is copying the iPhone. PC laptops are struggling to incorporate multi touch on their track pad. So stop the sniffling. Win users are inferior in every way. Your ignorance is a testament of that.


RE: iBoring
By Pirks on 10/21/2009 4:40:10 PM , Rating: 2
Posts like these are the reason why I don't post here as much as I used to. Keep it going Mac heads! Although with childish arguments like these you won't pwn a single wintroll here, alas ;)


RE: iBoring
By eddieroolz on 10/21/2009 4:42:22 PM , Rating: 2
Just face the facts kiddo. Noone likes anyone who calls them kiddo. You can cry and howl about Apple's supposed "ahead of the curve" thing but what you won't realize is that there's a world outside of the white plastic box of yours.

It's quite sad that you are a representative of an Apple fanboy on these forums. I'm sure a typical Apple fanboy will not go to the level of calling fellow humans inferior just because they use Windows. I'd much rather argue opposite, but then logic is something you never took in university and probably will never understand.

Oh, and make sure you take Economics. The Cost-Benefit Principle is something you also will never understand. If you want to try, here's a link though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost-benefit_analysis


RE: iBoring
By themaster08 on 10/21/2009 5:08:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Every time they release a product, every PC vendors panic and try to follow. Dell and other are copying the iMac.

Why would I care? I build my own systems, and I can assure you that I'm in no such hurry to follow in the footsteps of your Gods.

You see, that's the beauty of a PC. It can be that personal, you can even build it yourself.

Everyone can see here that the only person shedding any tears is you. I'm not arguing superiority. That is my personal preference, yet you feel obliged to mock it, like you're insecure or something.

Personally attacking people because of their computer preference is downright pathetic. Is this the sort of productivity you were talking about using your Mac for? Perhaps you should invest your time in a more constructive hobby.

Considering you've failed to construct any sort of counter argument for any of the points I made, I'll say I'm done here. Maybe you should take into consideration what Pirks had to say about your post.


RE: iBoring
By moriz on 10/21/2009 10:41:23 AM , Rating: 2
my computer comes in at around $1300 CDN (including monitors. yep, two of them) and blows your pretty little mac out of the water in every category. gaming, productivity, general usage... EVERYTHING. other than looking a bit better, your mac is simply no match.

so please, grow a brain and put your money to better use. if you are as productive and rich as you claim to be, ditch the mac, build your own computer for half the price, and donate the other half to charity. at least you'll be of some good to society.


RE: iBoring
By eddieroolz on 10/21/2009 12:56:56 PM , Rating: 2
Sir, if you have ever taken Logic and Reasoning, you will find that

quote:
You see, in general the typical Mac users are just exponentially smarter to begin with


DOES NOT imply

quote:
they buy a Mac because they want something where everything just work.


On the other hand you simply contradicted yourself. You say that they're smarter, but they don't want to configure anything nor take their "intelligence" and apply it to tweaking the product to work just right for you.


RE: iBoring
By eddieroolz on 10/21/2009 12:49:25 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I understand that most Win users are extremely jealous of Apple's products.

The moment you said that, you proved to the world that you in fact do not understand how we think.

quote:
But is it Apple's fault that most of you Win users can't afford to buy Apple's products.

Those of us who spend 2000+ on an awesome computer can indeed afford to buy a Mac Pro instead. But we don't want to force ourselves into a tiny world.

quote:
Why don't you get out of your mum's basement, loose those excess body fat and find a decent job rather than playing games 24/7.

You'd be surprised how many Windows users are professionals - doctors, engineers, lawyers. List goes on. Besides, by the same logic, all Mac users are stupid (because they throw their money away), elitist and cultist thanks to the Apple cult. Do you want to be labeled that way too?

quote:
At least then you can afford to buy that new Bug Patch Service Pack known as Windows 7.

Where have you been for the last year and a half? Pretty much every tech enthusiast (sorry, no Mac users included in that club) will pounce on your comment there.


RE: iBoring
By jonmcc33 on 10/21/2009 1:40:01 PM , Rating: 1
Oh, its not about not being able to afford Apple products. I could buy the base "8-core" Mac Pro right now if I wanted to, in cash. I just don't like to THROW my money away. For the same $3299 I could build a Windows 7 based PC that would be faster and bigger and stronger. Part by part the "8-core" Mac Pro is worth maybe $1500. Don't tell me that you pay the extra $1800 for the OS because it's $25 at Amazon for OS X 10.6 right now.

So take your spoiled rotten ass out of here. There's a difference between being unable to afford something and not being stupid enough to spend more on less.


Default graphics
By christianspoer on 10/20/2009 1:58:19 PM , Rating: 3
GeForce 9400M driving a 21.5" display at 1920x1080 is just worthless. For a laptop it's ok, but for such a large display - come on Apple!




RE: Default graphics
By Moohbear on 10/20/2009 2:03:43 PM , Rating: 4
The graphic chip is fine. You don't need a super-duper video card for 1920x1080 in 2D . It's a Mac and not a top end model, so you're not going to run many 3D games on it. My wife would be 100% satisfied with a 9400M and wouldn't notice the difference with a GTX295. If you want to play or do high end 3D, an iMac is definitely not for you.


RE: Default graphics
By walk2k on 10/20/2009 2:27:11 PM , Rating: 2
Correct, it's more than adequate for say, Unreal Tournament 2003 and... Solitaire.

quote:
What I love about gaming on the Mac is ... I mean when you go to the PC games section it's like *whoaaoa* there's so many!! But for the Mac there's just like, six! And you know which ones are good because you played them on your friend's PC two years ago!


RE: Default graphics
By Targon on 10/20/2009 3:05:50 PM , Rating: 2
The problem is that you don't get ANY real options in CPU or GPU until you get to the 27 inch model. The 21.5 inch model is GARBAGE for the price. Dual core processor and Geforce 9400 graphics are the BEST you can do at 21.5 inch.


RE: Default graphics
By FATCamaro on 10/20/2009 3:24:13 PM , Rating: 2
That is an IPS display I think which makes it a pretty good price for what it is. I don't see any other AIO's selling well other than iMacs. But maybe I've been affected by the RDF.


RE: Default graphics
By rudy on 10/20/2009 5:47:27 PM , Rating: 2
How do you know it is a IPS panel? I do not know of any IPS panels of that size and resolution TN panels on the other hand are a dime a doxen at those exact specs.


RE: Default graphics
By Dennis Travis on 10/20/2009 6:08:04 PM , Rating: 2
Are you sure that is an IPS Panel and not a TN? I hope it's IPS. The 20" models had a TN and you could tell if you looked closely.


RE: Default graphics
By FATCamaro on 10/20/2009 6:35:03 PM , Rating: 2
I'm an idiot. Only the 27" is IPS. BOoo


RE: Default graphics
By supasso on 10/20/2009 11:57:35 PM , Rating: 2
They are both IPS. I guess you are not an idiot after all.


RE: Default graphics
By sebmel on 10/21/2009 1:21:40 PM , Rating: 2
Likely to be LG Philips e-IPS screens.


RE: Default graphics
By sprockkets on 10/20/2009 3:35:58 PM , Rating: 2
Both models can be had with discrete ATi graphics, 4670 for the 21.5 and 4850 for the 27.


RE: Default graphics
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/20/2009 4:39:20 PM , Rating: 2
And adding the 1tb HDD to the 21.5 and the 4670, adds 300 dollars, i paid 70 bucks for MY 4670 in my media PC, and 1tb, can be had for under 100...where is the value in this?


RE: Default graphics
By Boze on 10/21/2009 2:30:38 AM , Rating: 2
Its busy going into Steve Jobs' and Apple shareholders' profits.

Like all religions, its the founders that see the most tangible benefits, not the peons. The peons need to keep sending in those donations (what else could they possibly be when every other computer vendor puts out similar products for half the price) and reaping those intangible benefits, like looking like an iJackass, or in religion's case, not getting the benefit until you're dead.


RE: Default graphics
By sebmel on 10/21/2009 1:58:53 PM , Rating: 2
" The 21.5 inch model is GARBAGE for the price."

Do us a favour and back that opinion up with some facts please, would you?
Price up these "garbage" components and no cheating! Like for like, or better, OK?

Your budget is $1200.
Remember all these components in a silent system. I'll let you off the small form factor, looks, warranty, multitouch mouse, low depreciation and software inter-compatibility... but try to keep to the environmental standard for those of us who don't want to breath in bromine burning off the motherboard. Deal? Oh, and that's a FULL version of Windows too, OK?

Now since you so stridently called it garbage we are all waiting for an impressive discount on a great system.

Display:
LG Philips e-IPS, 21.5", 1920 by 1080 pixels, brightness 320 cd/m2, LED-backlit, Typical viewing angle: 178° horizontal; 178° vertical

CPU:
3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 3MB shared L2 cache

RAM:
4GB (two 2GB SO-DIMMs) of 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM
four SO-DIMM slots support up to 16GB

MOUSE & KEYBOARD:
Bluetooth

I/O:
One FireWire 800 port; 7 watts
Four USB 2.0 ports
SD card slot
802.11n Wi-Fi wireless networking
Built-in Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR (Enhanced Data Rate)
Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet (RJ-45 connector)

Audio:
Built-in stereo speakers
Two internal 17-watt high-efficiency amplifiers
Headphone/optical digital audio output (minijack)
Audio line in/optical digital audio input (minijack)
Built-in microphone

Environmental:
Arsenic-free display glass
BFR-free
PVC-free
Recyclable aluminium and glass enclosure
Meets ENERGY STAR 5.0 requirements
Rated EPEAT Gold

Graphics:
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics processor with 256MB of DDR3 SDRAM shared with main memory
Built-in iSight camera
Mini DisplayPort output port with support for DVI, VGA, and dual-link DVI
Support for extended desktop and video mirroring modes

Optical Drive:
Slot-loading 8x DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW

Hard Drive:
500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA

Software:
Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard (includes iTunes, Time Machine, Quick Look, Spaces, Spotlight, Dashboard, Mail, iChat, Safari, Address Book, QuickTime, iCal, DVD Player, Photo Booth, Front Row, Xcode Developer Tools)
iLife ’09 (includes iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, iWeb, GarageBand)

Typical acoustical performance:
18 dBA at idle (That's effectively silent)


RE: Default graphics
By jonmcc33 on 10/20/2009 4:20:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's a Mac and not a top end model, so you're not going to run any 3D games on it or any other Mac.


Corrected.


RE: Default graphics
By Moohbear on 10/20/2009 4:36:53 PM , Rating: 2
Hey, that's not true. You can play World of Warcraft! And, hem, WoW! And, hem, did I mention World of Warcraft?


RE: Default graphics
By jonmcc33 on 10/21/2009 1:44:49 PM , Rating: 2
World of Warcraft (aka WoW) is not a 3D game. It's a prison sentence.

Ever seen the movie Zombieland? Yep, all the zombies were WoW addicts.


RE: Default graphics
By Drag0nFire on 10/20/2009 2:08:50 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, but I bet the 27in display is gorgeous. Not that I'd ever buy an iMac...


RE: Default graphics
By KoolAidMan1 on 10/20/2009 5:33:22 PM , Rating: 3
Then don't look at the Dell or HP all-in-ones. For the same price as the 24" iMacs from yesterday you get a slower CPU, Intel Integrated graphics instead of a 9400M, half the HD storage space, and an MVA panel instead of an IPS.

I don't see the problem with the iMac's price against other all-in-ones out there, it is actually a very good value if you want one. Hell, my NEC with the same panel as the old 24" iMac is still $1200, so by that measure its a good value period.


Nothing special
By Rainman on 10/20/2009 2:19:08 PM , Rating: 5
And the Mac Mini is particularly disappointing, but...

There clearly is a difference in what the consumer wants and what Anandtech readers want. Apple is coming off a record quarter in a bad economy. Criticize all we want, it doesn't change that their products are selling well.

We'll see about that mouse. Third time is a charm I hope.




RE: Nothing special
By talozin on 10/20/2009 3:54:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
There clearly is a difference in what the consumer wants and what Anandtech readers want.


I wish I could mod you up, sir.


RE: Nothing special
By walk2k on 10/20/2009 5:31:29 PM , Rating: 2
Well, sort of.

There's a difference between what Mac users want and what non-Mac users want.

Mac users want Macs, and they will pay whatever Apple asks, because they do not have any choice.

Meanwhile non-Mac users will pay less for equivilant hardware, but of course won't be a Mac. No matter how much money you spend on PC hardware it simply can't run Mac software.

However that's really here nor there as far as Apple's stock price goes because they make the vast majority of their profts from iPhones and iPods, not Macs. In fact they should probably change their name to Apple Phone...


RE: Nothing special
By KoolAidMan1 on 10/20/2009 5:43:19 PM , Rating: 2
You keep saying this and you continue to be incorrect.

The bulk of Apple's profits are from Mac sales. Not iPhone sales, not iPod sales. Mac sales.

Sure, the HYPE may be on the iPhone, but stop being a sheep, ignore the hype, and pay attention to facts for a moment.


RE: Nothing special
By ChickenMcTest on 10/20/2009 6:53:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Mac users want Macs, and they will pay whatever Apple asks, because they do not have any choice.


Not at all true. There are many close substitutes for Apple's goods. Apple charges a premium because they offer a superior product.


RE: Nothing special
By Alexstarfire on 10/20/2009 10:03:16 PM , Rating: 2
In their OS I might be able to give you some leeway, but this is certainly not true of their hardware. It is pretty much the exact same stuff that PC users have and we can get it for less. Of course I'm sure most of their profits come from the overpriced hardware, which wouldn't be surprising in the least, so I certainly understand why they don't make their computers work with PC hardware.


RE: Nothing special
By ChickenMcTest on 10/21/2009 3:08:15 PM , Rating: 2
Apples offers much more than the hardware they stuff inside their computers.

Apples cases rival the best Silverstone or LianLi cases out there. While I am not a fan of Apple Mice I love their brushed aluminum keyboards.

If you consider that many people want their computer not to be an eyesore in the living room. Apple's products look great, they work as advertised.

The only thing you can get pissed about is that you could build yourself a Mac for less money. Usually when people make these comparisons they decide not to account for the ascetics


RE: Nothing special
By DC2529 on 10/20/2009 11:16:14 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly.
The typical DailyTech reader is tech savvy. Mac's target audience is the non-savvy market.


RE: Nothing special
By Boze on 10/21/2009 2:35:07 AM , Rating: 2
I always thought their audience were lazy SOBs who couldn't be bothered to actually read something once in a while to figure out how to operate a machine.

I find the whole concept insulting. Some engineer spent hours talking to a technical writer. Some technical writer spent hours trying to take the engineer babble down to a level so the average moron can understand it. And the sad part is, the average moron is so far below average, they can't even figure out PC LOAD LETTER. Is that really so hard?


RE: Nothing special
By sebmel on 10/21/2009 2:16:58 PM , Rating: 2
That's a really sad defence of bad design.

To paraphrase:
Good design is bad because you don't have to read the manual.

Let me give you an example: The give way laws in New Zealand. Are you familiar with them?

Here we go:
If you are going straight ahead, give way to all vehicles coming straight through from your right.
If you are turning, give way to all vehicles that are not turning.
If you are turning left, give way to vehicles coming towards you that are turning right.
If you are turning right, give way to vehicles on your right that are turning right.
If you are leaving the path of the centre line, you are turning.
You must give way to vehicles that are following the centre line.

Where do the give way rules apply?
Traffic lights.
GIVE WAY signs.
STOP signs.
Police officers directing traffic and also at intersections where:
Two vehicles are coming towards each other and both are at STOP signs.
Two vehicles are coming towards each other and both are at GIVE WAY signs.

Now, sure, many can read the manual and learn that... but why, in the name of all that is intelligent and civilised, do that to people?
Incidentally, New Zealand has one of the highest car fatality rates in the world.


RE: Nothing special
By sebmel on 10/21/2009 2:20:30 PM , Rating: 2
By 'car fatality' I meant 'road vehicle accident fatalities'... but you knew that, didn't you.


RE: Nothing special
By taber on 10/21/2009 6:43:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The typical DailyTech reader is tech savvy. Mac's target audience is the non-savvy market.


I think that's way too generic. For lots of people $600-1500 just isn't that much money and that covers the cost of entry for all but the Mac Pro. Most people are impressed with the design of Macs (I fully understand Apple mostly just ties it together and doesn't manufacture most components).

I'm far from rich, but bought a $500 refurb mini to play around with and it works great in my kitchen with the small form-factor. I even upgraded to 4 gigs RAM and a nice HD myself. Eventually I got tired of OS X, fired up Boot Camp and just use Win7 now.

You can argue bad investment, but another feature most people don't consider is the resell price. Looking at ebay, I could get all the money I put into my mini back. That's partly because of me upgrading the hardware myself, but macs still retain their value better just because they can legally run OS X. Apple artificially keeping their hardware prices high keeps your old hardware prices high. On the other hand, I'm not sure if I could get my money back on the Win7 i7 rig I built just last month, definitely not 6 months from now.


RE: Nothing special
By Pirks on 10/21/2009 7:15:50 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, deprecation on PC hardware is atrocious, I've got brand new Gateway P-173X gamebook for $2000 and sold it a year later in excellent like new condition for just $800 (high end 8800M GTS GPU, 4GB RAM, 7200 RPM HDD, everything top loaded, even Vista Ultimate x64 preloaded, highest end desktop Windows you could get at the time!). This is the last time I quickly sold my notebook EVER, they lose their value overnight after you bought them, just like American cars, yuck! Next time I buy notebook I either return it ASAP for refund if I don't like it or I'll cling to it for as much as possible even if it's somewhat defective. Selling PC hardware that you've bought is an exercise in wasting money in LARGE quantities. ESPECIALLY gamebooks, these deprecate like $1000 a year, hoolyy drap!!! Hard to believe eh?

Good thing this stupid Gateway P.O.S. notebook was the only exception form the rule, otherwise I'd be probably running a Mac or two by now ;)


16:9 display ???
By Shadowself on 10/20/2009 2:30:42 PM , Rating: 1
It's a computer screen -- not a TV monitor!

I'll never understand anyone -- especially Apple -- going to 16:9.




RE: 16:9 display ???
By harmaton on 10/20/2009 2:41:39 PM , Rating: 2
it is the new standard... and not one made up by apple.


RE: 16:9 display ???
By Hare on 10/20/2009 3:26:13 PM , Rating: 2
People edit videos and watch movies with their computers. 16:9 or 16:10 fits that purpose well. It's also reasonable for other work as most applications are designed so that toolbars are at the side of the document.

I don't see anything wrong with going widescreen. These are consumer computers and the choice is perfect for that (general use and multimedia).


RE: 16:9 display ???
By HotFoot on 10/20/2009 4:21:10 PM , Rating: 1
I can't agree with you more. 16:10 is a great ratio for monitors. Especially browsing the web or using Office, the vertical space of what you're working on is shrunk down enough as it is compared to the width of the screen.

16:10 allows you to watch the 16:9 content no problem. So... why are the manufacturers pushing 16:9 on us? I recently bought a new monitor (Dell U2410: love it!) and I was really disappointed by the shrinking choices in terms of a 16:10 display.


RE: 16:9 display ???
By seamonkey79 on 10/20/2009 4:45:11 PM , Rating: 2
I have been chomping at the bit to buy a monitor to replace my 24" Dell... and have not found anything compelling that isn't 16:9... I've gotten used to 1920x1200, I'm certainly not going to move down to 1920x1080... it's rather silly, this whole "watch true HD on your monitor!!!"

Right, because 1920x1200 can't do full HD...

But then, I guess for the non-thinking out there, the black bars at the top mean the monitor SUX AT HD!!!


RE: 16:9 display ???
By Akrovah on 10/20/2009 6:31:47 PM , Rating: 2
For standard desktop work and even movies I agree, but games actually kind of kick ass on 16:9 vs 16:10. That slightely more horizontal POV makes a bigger difference than I expected.

Granted this is a Mac, which means you are stuck with WoW which I beleive is actually a Vert- when going to widescreen.


RE: 16:9 display ???
By Strunf on 10/21/2009 8:03:20 AM , Rating: 2
Games is a moot point, depending on the game having a slightly more vertical POV gives you an edge, for instance if you look to a building you'll see more floors with 16:10 than 16:9, sure 4:3 is a bit too much but 16:10 is for me the best balance of H/V ratio.


RE: 16:9 display ???
By Hardin on 10/20/2009 5:18:52 PM , Rating: 2
Most new monitors are 16:9. Mine is, I'm not sure why we even had 16:10 for so long or even at all.


RE: 16:9 display ???
By walk2k on 10/20/2009 5:23:44 PM , Rating: 2
The same reason we have 5:4 monitors instead of 4:3.

quote:
It's a monitor not a television.


RE: 16:9 display ???
By Akrovah on 10/20/2009 6:37:00 PM , Rating: 2
But with the HD era brining TVs with resolutions similar to what monitors have been having for years, there was bound to be convergence eventually. Welcome to it.


RE: 16:9 display ???
By Hardin on 10/20/2009 11:05:20 PM , Rating: 2
I would have hated to have owned a 5:4 monitor. They were very much inferior to the 4:3 monitors. But 16:9 is a very good aspect ratio. Before 16:9 was the tv standard the standard was 4:3 so I'm not sure why you guys keep brining up "it's a monitor not a television." They have always shared the same ratio.


Apple Checklist
By Iaiken on 10/20/2009 4:34:18 PM , Rating: 2
Core i7 920? Nope.
GB-EX58-UD5? Nope.
6GB 1600MHz RAM? Nope.
Radeon 5870? Nope.
30" LCD Monitor? Nope.
Getting charged the price for the above and getting previous generation hardware? CHECK!




RE: Apple Checklist
By trivik12 on 10/20/2009 4:49:34 PM , Rating: 2
To be fair you are comparing apples with oranges. iMac is an AIO. Most all in ones uses laptop cpus. I have seen Q8x00 in sony AIO which is even more expensive than iMac.

I think iMac is the 1st AIO to have lynnfield cpus. Hopefully HP/Dell/Sony makes more "reasonable" priced ones.


RE: Apple Checklist
By Alexstarfire on 10/20/2009 10:09:31 PM , Rating: 2
I think Apple pretty much owns the AIO segment. That said, it looks like that segment is rather small. An AIO seems to be a bit worthless. You get the functionality and performance of a laptop without the portability. Ohhh, and you get the expense too.


RE: Apple Checklist
By sebmel on 10/21/2009 2:33:08 PM , Rating: 2
You forget one thing... in that aluminium enclosure laptop components are going to be quiet.

And there's the fact that the cost of a computer is the cost to buy minus the price at sale... and Apple computers blow PCs out of the water when it comes to depreciation.

And Apple has those generous Education Discounts... 15% at times... Developer Program prices are even lower... and the Developer Program isn't priced like Microsoft's... and much of the software's free.

So you have a medium initial outlay for an attractive, silent computer with good software and an excellent screen... and then you get most of your money back when you upgrade.

Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.


RE: Apple Checklist
By ChickenMcTest on 10/21/2009 3:14:19 PM , Rating: 2
I think you are ignoring some of the benefits these provide. For a living room computer where I can browse the net, print crap, look at photos, and play music this is a very good choice.

I don't have to hide a tower under a desk, there are very few cables to worry about. It is very quite and looks nice on a small table. Where as my main PC with 2 radeons buzzing away is not suitable for my living room.


RE: Apple Checklist
By Reclaimer77 on 10/21/2009 4:00:36 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah cause we all know every PC us huge and loud and full of fans right ? No such thing as a small, stylish, quiet PC ! No sir.


RE: Apple Checklist
By Pirks on 10/21/2009 4:22:46 PM , Rating: 2
Besides SFF silent PCs that are common now, Mac users never heard of water cooling for high end gaming rigs (Koolance FTW!).

I learned by my own experience that Mac users lie when they say that PCs are noisy. Of course some cheap PCs are, but not all. Noise-wise there is no difference between Macs and silent SFF PCs at all.


RE: Apple Checklist
By Reclaimer77 on 10/21/2009 5:22:08 PM , Rating: 2
Years ago noise was the price of performance. There was not revolutionary heat pipe CPU cooler technology back then. Terms like "fin density" and "airflow" were practically non existent. Even the fans weren't as developed. Technology that Mac's now benefit from to be cool and quiet only exist BECAUSE of PC's and what we learned in those early years.

And ummm.... are you really Pirks ?


RE: Apple Checklist
By Pirks on 10/21/2009 6:40:11 PM , Rating: 2
Are you really Reclaimer?


RE: Apple Checklist
By ChickenMcTest on 10/21/2009 7:26:14 PM , Rating: 2
Right, and we all know there is never a good time to choose Mac?

Is the Dell XPS one or the HP Touchsmart 600 series a much better deal compared to the Mac? Not really.


27 inch for $2200?
By RMSistight on 10/20/2009 2:09:22 PM , Rating: 2
They've got to be kidding. It's not even the high end i7s and they're charging an arm and a leg.




RE: 27 inch for $2200?
By Screwballl on 10/20/2009 2:53:07 PM , Rating: 3
Welcome to Apple.
Would you like to be bent over the counter, the desk or the couch?
Just make sure you leave you common sense at the door, we don't allow that here.


RE: 27 inch for $2200?
By ChickenMcTest on 10/20/2009 6:35:52 PM , Rating: 1
YEA!!

Why would I pay to drive a 200hp Lexus when I can jam a 300hp engine into a Chevy cobalt!


RE: 27 inch for $2200?
By Boze on 10/21/2009 2:38:20 AM , Rating: 2
Only idiotic fools think a computer is a status symbol.

Fortunately for you and Apple, this world will likely never be in short supply of those.


RE: 27 inch for $2200?
By ChickenMcTest on 10/21/2009 2:50:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Only idiotic fools think a computer is a status symbol.

So to demonstrate my idiocy you ignore my analogy and go straight for the ad hominem attack?

The hypocrisy is thick.

Its idiotic to think only about the hardware inside your computer. Why do you think the anandtech forums are filled with people asking for advice on purchasing: keyboards, mice, monitors, computer cases?


RE: 27 inch for $2200?
By Pirks on 10/21/2009 4:27:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why would I pay to drive a 200hp Lexus when I can jam a 300hp engine into a Chevy cobalt
Using my trademark car analogies without a copyright reference? Bad bad chicken!!! :)))


RE: 27 inch for $2200?
By ChickenMcTest on 10/21/2009 7:29:11 PM , Rating: 2
Lol, forgive me priks!

It is a really good analogy. But, sadly it's not breaking these people of their anti-apple group think.

It is really that hard for them to understand that purchase a Mac makes sense for certain situations?


RE: 27 inch for $2200?
By Pirks on 10/21/2009 8:10:23 PM , Rating: 2
The difference between you and them is the interpretation of those "certain situations". You understand these "certain situations" very differently from wintrolls, and there's no way you could persuade them, it's like trying to talk a chocolate hater into trying some chocolate. Just forget it.


Major downside of the iMac
By awaken688 on 10/20/2009 5:02:46 PM , Rating: 2
Apple has great monitors usually in the iMac. BUT, I don't want to buy a sweet IPS monitor to just have to get rid of it later because the computer is out of date. I though about Mac earlier, but once I buy a 24" monitor, I would like to keep it for a long time. Mac Mini doesn't have the power, Mac Pro's are crazy expensive and I don't need Xeon CPUs. Even leaving the whole OS X vs. Windows thing out of it, Apple doesn't even offer a product I really would want in the desktop market (ie. a regular tower). Laptops are a different discussion.

Oh well. I'm not going to question their choices. They are making boatloads of cash and showing incredible growth as a company.




RE: Major downside of the iMac
By KoolAidMan1 on 10/20/2009 5:27:57 PM , Rating: 2
I have a 24" iMac alongside my gaming PC and a 24" NEC 2490WUXi, also a 24" H-IPS display. You know what, I would be more than happy to sell the 24" iMac to upgrade for this. I get a ton of resale value for the iMac since it has such a nice display, I get a better 27" IPS display in the new iMac, and a faster computer to boot. And now it finally allows for display input from other sources, meaning that it can run as a secondary monitor from my PC.

What are the negatives?


RE: Major downside of the iMac
By Boze on 10/21/2009 2:39:52 AM , Rating: 2
You know... I'm not going to criticize you for purchasing a Mac, I just think its very telling that you had to purchase (or build) a gaming PC to put along side your Mac because it can't get the job done...

Meanwhile, the other 99% of DailyTech very likely does everything on a single machine, minus a laptop for netbook for mobility.


RE: Major downside of the iMac
By KoolAidMan1 on 10/21/2009 5:36:16 AM , Rating: 2
Its the other way around for me, actually. Windows, as much as I truly like Vista and Windows 7, doesn't do it for me in two very important ways. One is that OS X has a superior UI for multitasking. Its window and workspace management is the best of any desktop environment I have used, hands down. Give me a choice as to which platform I'll do real work on and its an easy decision to make. Second (and its a biggie) is that there is no Final Cut Studio on Windows, important for the line of work that I do. I have well over a ten year head start using Windows over OS X (since Windows 2.0), I know both operating systems backwards and forwards, and ever since OS 10.4 launched in 2005 the Mac has been my platform of choice. For the three years prior it was just a FCP workstation to me, that's it.

Gaming, as much as I love it (gaming PC and every single console over here), holds a very secondary priority for me over my career. The fact that one day that I bill from on a job I got thanks to my Mac can buy me a $2000 PC (almost half the budget on my current build is the 256GB SSD I'm putting inside of it), the $1200 NEC display I got for it and my iMac, and I still have spending cash left over, should say everything.

The Mac is for work and everything else in my life while the PC is a hobby box (can't shake that building habit) and for games, a toy basically. Toys and hobbies are fun, don't get me wrong, and I realize that I am very fortunate to have the kind of disposable income that I do, but I also have to be honest as to which platform is fundamentally more useful and important to me. If I had to drop one or the other for money reasons then it would be a very easy choice. Hell, its an even simpler choice since I can just throw Windows 7 onto a Boot Camp partition like I do with my MBP. Its even easier now that they have i7 860s in them, same CPU I'm putting in my new PC this week. The fact that that amazing display is included on top of everything is a ridiculous deal.


RE: Major downside of the iMac
By slashbinslashbash on 10/20/2009 7:59:59 PM , Rating: 2
That's actually one of the coolest things they've changed on the new 27"! Its DisplayPort is bi-directional! (Why they didn't do the same with the 21.5", I don't know.) But you can plug another DisplayPort-equipped computer into the 27" iMac's DisplayPort, and use the iMac as a monitor! Awesome! (Can you tell I'm excited?)

(I sold my 24" iMac and got a Mac Pro earlier this year... it was a hard choice, I loved that 24" screen so much. I've now got a Dell 2407, which is nice, but it doesn't seem as nice as the iMac screen used to.)

Anyway, these new iMacs look pretty sweet, but I'll probably never buy another iMac unless they start making the HDD's user-upgradable, and include 2 HDD bays. I'm glad they finally made the iMacs have 4 SODIMM slots, which cures one of the other big problems.


RE: Major downside of the iMac
By Alexstarfire on 10/20/2009 10:05:10 PM , Rating: 2
Interesting, but I don't understand why you'd want to use a perfectly functional computer as a monitor instead. I suppose it may have very limited uses though. Worth having over not having I guess.


RE: Major downside of the iMac
By slashbinslashbash on 10/21/2009 6:26:40 AM , Rating: 2
Say you buy the 27" iMac and use it for 4 years. In this time, Intel will have released 2 new processor architectures, and it's likely that your hard drive and RAM requirements will have outpaced what's available in the iMac. So at that point you could buy a new Mac Pro, Mac Mini, or MacBook, and hook it up to your iMac as the monitor. In other words, this is not something that is immediately useful for most people; it's about extending the end-of-life usefulness. Because let's face it, if you're buying the 27" iMac today, a large portion of that $1700 is going towards the monitor part. The computer part depreciates rapidly as Moore's Law moves us along, but a 27" LED backlit 2560x1440 monitor probably won't lose its value as much.


RE: Major downside of the iMac
By sebmel on 10/21/2009 1:11:16 PM , Rating: 2
"The computer part depreciates rapidly"

That isn't my experience with Macs... they actually hold onto their value very well. So much so that if you get the Education discount, fall Back To School discount and free iPod you can usually sell the computer after a year for pretty much what you paid for it.

As a result I don't understand people saying that they want to hang onto the display, or that they don't want an all-in-one because they can't see a way to upgrade the HD... just sell it and buy another one!

That way you get a new screen... and new everything else too... for nothing!


Prices are ok
By trivik12 on 10/20/2009 2:25:22 PM , Rating: 2
i agree apple products are overpriced but 27" imac with core i7 860 at 2200 is not bad at all. Dont forget it is a QUXGA screen LED Backlit IPS monitor. That alone must be expensive. Plus how many pc makers have all in one with IPS/LED combo.

But I dont see myself buying one. My wife would kill me if I spend 2300(i& with applecare) on a computer.




RE: Prices are ok
By Xavi3n on 10/20/2009 3:15:31 PM , Rating: 1
That's all well and good but for the most part a decent non-apple IPS monitor without an LED backlight is usually better for colour reproduction than the apple ones, which is one of the primary reasons one would get an IPS monitor.

I have to wonder what the point is, if you're going to focus on contrast for a monitor instead of colour gamut, then why use an IPS panel, MVA is a lot cheaper and yet still maintains the same viewing angles of an IPS.


RE: Prices are ok
By trivik12 on 10/20/2009 4:51:36 PM , Rating: 2
Are you saying Apple monitors are not as good as Dell IPS when it comes to color gamut or they are just barely better than MVA ones. I thought IPS ones still significantly better than MVA. Plus Apple user base value color gamuts.


RE: Prices are ok
By KoolAidMan1 on 10/20/2009 5:38:04 PM , Rating: 2
IPS panels are significantly better than MVA panels, there is no comparison. Sure, MVA panels are better than TN panels but that's like saying herpes is better than gonorrhea.


RE: Prices are ok
By lightfoot on 10/20/2009 5:50:35 PM , Rating: 3
You only say that because you've never tried gonorrhea.


RE: Prices are ok
By KoolAidMan1 on 10/20/2009 5:53:52 PM , Rating: 2
Hahahahahah


RE: Prices are ok
By sebmel on 10/21/2009 2:23:45 PM , Rating: 2
Well that would be stupid: gonorrhoea can be cured, herpes can't.

;-)


I find it funny
By amanojaku on 10/20/2009 1:57:00 PM , Rating: 4
That despite Apple's coolness and its innovative resources...

It still can't make a decent mouse.




RE: I find it funny
By mydogfarted on 10/20/2009 5:17:28 PM , Rating: 2
I love my Macs, but HATE their mice and not a big fan of the Chicklet keyboards. Then again, I'm old skool and still miss the old IBM keyboards that clicked. I also tend to immediately throw away the crap keyboards that come with PCs and go right for a Logitech or M$ keyboard and mouse.


RE: I find it funny
By KoolAidMan1 on 10/20/2009 5:36:14 PM , Rating: 2
Its really bizarre. They make the absolute best trackpads out there, I think their notebook and desktop keyboard are outstanding (I use them on my PCs as well), but their mice SUCK.

I dunno, I'll give this new one a try but I'm not holding my breath.


RE: I find it funny
By ChickenMcTest on 10/20/2009 6:56:41 PM , Rating: 2
Mighty mouse sucked.

This new mouse is innovative.

It may be a waste of space, but it may lead the way for a new style of mouse.


Prices are wrong
By nafhan on 10/20/2009 2:25:02 PM , Rating: 2
Apple store is showing:
21.5-inch: $1,199.00 or $1,499.00
27-inch: $1,699.00 or $1,999.00

I'm not going to buy one, regardless, but I think there would be a market for the high end specs with the smaller monitor. It's just to big for some people (yeah, yeah, that's what she said).




RE: Prices are wrong
By nafhan on 10/20/2009 2:27:01 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and the $1,999 one comes with an i5, but doesn't ship until Nov. according to the product page.


RE: Prices are wrong
By mydogfarted on 10/20/2009 5:12:02 PM , Rating: 2
Doesn't ship until November? You realize it is pretty much the end of October.


By SurreDeth on 10/20/2009 5:19:07 PM , Rating: 2
Please let me resize windows using the borders and corners other than only bottom right.

Please give me some keyboard keystrokes that make sense out of the box when dealing with text files; yeah, I hate carrying my xcode config with me.




By lightfoot on 10/20/2009 6:03:18 PM , Rating: 4
Nope, can't do that. The current system works, just.

See tag line - "It just works."

Adding more functionality would add complexity and would confuse our users. We don't have the support staff to reassure the users that, yes, they can still resize windows from the lower right corner in addition to the other corners and sides. Next thing you know they will be asking for more than one way to eject a CD, and then it will be that they want to move their menus, and where does it all end? This isn't a personal computer that we're talking about. It's an Apple computer - we can't allow people to personalize it, because then we wouldn't be different, we'd be the same. And Apple is all about being different. So be different, exactly like us.


Magic Mouse
By hiscross on 10/20/2009 7:54:50 PM , Rating: 1
Mac people please fret over the windows people whining over the great Apple gear you own. It was a time when many of those whiners used DOS and whined that the DOS prompt was all you needed. Even their lord gates said 64K was all anyone needed. So, as I write this using a Mac Mini running 10.6 server let them whine, We all know what is the best and we don't have to apologize to anyone, ever.




RE: Magic Mouse
By Nimon on 10/21/2009 9:03:18 PM , Rating: 2
This entire thread is retarded. Who says one mouse is better than another. Surely it's only personal choice. The old lady with the new "Internet Machine" struggles to understand the logic of a scroll wheel never mind two buttons.
I use the Logitech AirMouse myself the MX AIR. I highly doubt and professional designer or gamer would like this... A Magic Mouse works great with a mac operating system. All mac mice have left and right click and if you DO own a Mac and don't like... Stop moaning and plug in you own damn mouse.

God knows what you people will say about a graphics tablet... a 12" mouse oh lord the size and buttons!!!


RE: Magic Mouse
By Nimon on 10/21/2009 9:06:01 PM , Rating: 2
Damn 2am typo's! I meant any designer or gamer. night.


By muhahaaha on 10/21/2009 4:08:31 AM , Rating: 2
I just get so sick and tired of all the BS Apple commercials, the inferior products that are purported to be god's gift to earth, iF@#!ing everything. People will buy all of there iGarbage because of their ignorance and sheepdom.

I am a computer professional and know that Apple have nothing to offer that other smart-phones and mp3 players couldn't have done years ago. They just know how to sucker the average joe into thinking they are something great.




By muhahaaha on 10/21/2009 4:14:39 AM , Rating: 1
And that goes for the MacInTrash as well. It has been relegated to an x86 PC running a Unix based OS with a MacInTrash dumbed down GUI for computer illiterates. Wow, how can you really call that a "Mac"?


By muhahaaha on 10/21/2009 4:16:29 AM , Rating: 2
FU APPLE


2 buttons
By jaericho on 10/20/2009 2:06:19 PM , Rating: 2
According to Apple's website it does support 2 'buttons', if you enable an option in system preferences.




RE: 2 buttons
By lightfoot on 10/20/2009 5:39:33 PM , Rating: 2
Will Mac users now come equipped with two fingers too? It's a useless feature otherwise.


Why not blu-ray for the Mini?
By ET on 10/20/2009 4:27:53 PM , Rating: 2
Blu-ray is one option that's really missing for the mini. It's a good form factor for a media center PC, and has good enough hardware, so blu-ray + HDMI could really make it attractive.




RE: Why not blu-ray for the Mini?
By lightfoot on 10/20/2009 5:43:52 PM , Rating: 2
Blu-Ray would really cut into Apple's margins, and for what? So people can watch movies that aren't purchased through iTunes?? Will never happen. (At least not for another year...)


Ouch, my wallet hurts.
By lightfoot on 10/20/2009 6:13:25 PM , Rating: 2
Welcome to the next generation of buyer's remorse.

Anyone know what the return policy is on one of these things?




RE: Ouch, my wallet hurts.
By JMike on 10/21/2009 2:01:14 PM , Rating: 2
The thing that is hard about Apple products in general is the price of them. They are top of the line products though because of how they have come to effect our day to day activities. I'm looking forward to trying this new mouse out for sure. I recently got a new MacBook Pro, (just an iPod, an iPod Video, and an iPhone later). Each one hurt the wallet a little bit for sure but I didn't get the MacBook the same way I bought the others. I got it through the site below. Check it out, if your in the market for one and you do it right its so worth it.

http://www.mediancs.com/rd_p?skipRedirect=1&p=1924...


x X PC
By gescom on 10/21/2009 2:25:26 PM , Rating: 2
Windows PC
OSx PC
Linux PC
..
...
....
a Mac? What? Please stop calling these OSx PC's "a Mac".




RE: x X PC
By sebmel on 10/21/2009 2:42:16 PM , Rating: 2
No, it's a Mac PC

;-)


Are you all on crack?
By robinthakur on 10/21/2009 8:29:13 AM , Rating: 3
OK, whilst I expect people on here to be rabidly anti-apple, for no particular reason, this reaction is just nuts and illustrates precisely the gulf between the people that post here and the people that buy computers and technology in general these days.

In my opinion (and the opinion of many people in my office who saw it) the magic mouse is innovative and beautiful; the word most people said was "Wow" and really, how often do you get that reaction for a mouse? The new macbooks look perfect for students who could afford the Macbook pros and the mac mini equips it nicely for Snow Leopard. The new imacs just look amazing. I happily run Windows 7 on my self-built pc (first started building my pvc's in 1994) and I don't feel threatened just because Apple release gorgeous looking hardware and software. I also use the iPhone 3GS and macs at home and understand the pros and cons of both.

Some of you are just the worst kind of Windows users and the kind of people who assume that everybody else wants the same thing that they do. Apple have done a good job here and in general recently with their products, that's why people buy them and are hugely satisfied with them, and it why they are the brand that consumers are most loyal to. They cost more, big deal, so what. The design of their products differentiates them enough in most consumer's minds to warrant it, as you can see from their financial results which have exceeded analysts expectations within a massive downturn for their competitors. Credit where credit is due please and not just jealousy will get you a long way in life.




Mac Mini CPU?
By Taft12 on 10/20/2009 3:00:49 PM , Rating: 2
Has Intel made custom CPUs specifically for Mac Mini? I don't know what Core 2 Duos run at these clockspeeds:

# 2.26GHz, 2.53GHz, or 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor
# 3MB on-chip shared L2 cache running 1:1 with processor speed
# 1066MHz frontside bus

Should be an E7xxx?

EDIT: Ah never mind, they are laptop Penryns




i5/i7 across the board.
By trivik12 on 10/20/2009 3:25:36 PM , Rating: 2
One annoying thing apple did is not put i5/i7 across the board. if the 21.5" imac had i5 quad core at 1200 I might have purchased it. But apple as usual tried to push the highest end which is overpriced except for a small minority.




typical apple
By IlllI on 10/20/2009 3:39:55 PM , Rating: 2
all style no function.

that mouse will be an ergonomic nightmare to use!

i can't imagine using a mouse like that for hours a day without severe hand craps




Oh My goh!
By damianrobertjones on 10/20/2009 3:40:50 PM , Rating: 2
http://www.engadget.com/

Someone at engadget is sleeping with an apple staff member! How MANY apple articles can you get, while Dailytech posts one.




27" is worth buying as a monitor
By ET on 10/20/2009 4:25:01 PM , Rating: 2
2560x1600 monitors still go for around $2000 and are 30". This is slightly lower resolution, 1440 instead of 1600, but it's smaller and lower cost, even though it includes a full computer. It has a display port input, so is a perfect match for a Radeon 5870. Buy a few, and use them with the Eyefinity edition. :) Use the iMac for storage space and folding or something.




An Nvidia chip in the imac?
By Fox5 on 10/20/2009 10:19:07 PM , Rating: 2
I thought Apple and nvidia had some huge falling out that meant Apple wouldn't use their products for several years, if not forever, especially their chipsets, yet here they are announcing a new product utilizing an nvidia IGP of all things.




Its great
By alvinmler on 10/20/2009 11:05:26 PM , Rating: 2
Wow its great,i think that it become my work more interesting on PC.i want to buy it

http://acaiforcemaxreviews.wetpaint.com




So, how does the mouse work?
By C'DaleRider on 10/21/2009 11:43:07 AM , Rating: 2
How do you mouse with a mouse that has a touch-sensitive surface? Where do you rest your fingers as you navigate with the mouse, moving the cursor around the screen? On the sides? Seems like you cannot rest your fingers on top of the mouse like you do with a traditional two-button mouse, so how does it work and how do you position your two fingers comfortably and naturally?

Or are you supposed to hover your fingers over the mouse, only bringing them into contact with the mouse when you want to move your cursor? That's gotta suck and be extremely tiring for your hand and fingers.




OMG, serious stuff!
By KIAman on 10/20/2009 2:49:01 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
..new product onslaught includes...


...FINISH HIM!!! Ul-Ul-Ul-Ultra-Fatality! Take that Hodgman, you bad PC, you!




iPorn
By dark matter on 10/20/2009 3:47:06 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks is desperately trying to reply to some of the posts here. However each time he tries his eyes are drawn the iPorn and his mind wanders off dreaming about fingering the new mouse. So as much as he tried he can't help but crack one off. I dread to think what his sheets must be like this evening.




RE: iPorn
By Pirks on 10/20/09, Rating: -1
RE: iPorn
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/20/09, Rating: 0
RE: iPorn
By Pirks on 10/20/09, Rating: -1
RE: iPorn
By Boze on 10/21/2009 2:42:28 AM , Rating: 1
I don't particularly care for Pirks, but there's no point in dragging him into this, especially when he's not saying a peep about this stuff.


"If they're going to pirate somebody, we want it to be us rather than somebody else." -- Microsoft Business Group President Jeff Raikes














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