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Fiat 500
Fiat confirms arrival of diminutive 500 hatchback

It seems as though many auto manufacturers get bitten by the retro bug at some point in time. Retro vehicles can provide a link to the past, while at the same time giving drivers a more modern vehicle with all the performance and safety that we expect from today's cars.

Prime examples of recent retro vehicles include the Ford Thunderbird, Chrysler PT Cruiser, VW New Beetle, Toyota FJ Cruiser, and the Mini. It looks as though at least one more retro vehicle is coming our way courtesy of Fiat. The Italian auto giant today announced that its tiny 500 will be making its way to North America and will be sold in Chrysler dealerships.

Earlier reports hinted that Fiat would make this move, but today marked the first official confirmation from Fiat. According to Richard Gadeselli, Fiat's VP of Communications, the Fiat 500 will land in Chrysler dealerships within the next 18 months. The vehicle will still be badged as a Fiat; however, six other vehicles based on current Fiat platforms will also arrive stateside wearing Chrysler-specific designs and badging according to Autoblog.

Fiat and Chrysler announced a strategic alliance in late January, and most recently, Chrysler filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Despite Chrysler's current financial troubles, Fiat is hoping that its expertise with small car platforms will help to bring innovative and fuel efficient vehicles to U.S. drivers.

Chrysler was joined today in bankruptcy proceedings by its crosstown rival, GM, which the U.S. government is now taking a 60% stake (Canada is getting a 12% stake in the company, while auto unions will receive a roughly 17.5% stake). Ford has yet to take any bailout funds and is currently moving forward under its own power.



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Is it cheap?
By arazok on 6/1/2009 4:24:20 PM , Rating: 5
I’ve always wanted to buy a tiny car just to commute to work in. In a two car family, it makes no sense owning two large cars. A two seater that’s does nothing but get me to work and is cheap to operate.

But then I look at the Smart car (and its competitors), and they’re priced the same as a Civic or a Mazda 3, and I just can’t justify it. Why would I pay the same price, for half the car, to save $30 a month in gas?

My only hope is that some auto manufacturer builds a small, cheap car, and doesn’t try to gouge me on it thinking I’m motivated by eco-OCD.




RE: Is it cheap?
By Pirks on 6/1/2009 4:53:26 PM , Rating: 4
Toyota Yaris hatchback with manual tranny is your car. Can't get more frugal, reliable and cheap 4-seater today than Yaris. Hybrids don't count due to insane price.


RE: Is it cheap?
By 67STANG on 6/1/2009 5:48:56 PM , Rating: 1
Can't get much uglier either. No thanks. I'd rather work two jobs (if I had to) than drive that.

Boycott ugly cars folks. Sooner or later, they'll pay attention and stop making them.


RE: Is it cheap?
By Smilin on 6/1/2009 5:57:15 PM , Rating: 3
The theory doesn't hold.

GM production hasn't stopped despite going into bankrupcy.


RE: Is it cheap?
By mdogs444 on 6/1/2009 5:58:04 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Boycott ugly cars folks. Sooner or later, they'll pay attention and stop making them.

We've already done that. We made our choices: SUV's, trucks, midsize and full size cars, muscle cars...but now we have politicians and special interest groups forcing unwanted products on by proposing legislature to get rid of what we do want.


RE: Is it cheap?
By Jackattak on 6/1/2009 7:38:25 PM , Rating: 3
Speak for yourself.

Bring on the 500, the Polo, the MiTo, etc.

A lot of us European car enthusiasts have been waiting for these cars for a very long time. The United States are not just Middle America. The fact that the American car companies have fallen apart based on the very model you proclaim "everybody wants" is proof that you're wrong.


RE: Is it cheap?
By Screwballl on 6/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: Is it cheap?
By oab on 6/1/2009 8:13:06 PM , Rating: 3
Fords sales fell off a cliff when the gas prices skyrocketed. Specifically F-150 sales. Ford Focus sales shot up as much as the gas prices. They sold every Focus on the lots, and they ramped up production to meet the new demand.

Then the economy fell just about as hard as F-150 sales.


RE: Is it cheap?
By mcnabney on 6/1/2009 8:54:08 PM , Rating: 2
Isn't the F150 the #1 vehicle again?


RE: Is it cheap?
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 6/2/2009 9:39:28 AM , Rating: 2
I guess we all have to buy big to protect ourselves from others who are buying big. Isn't that the rationale? You buy a small car first, then I will buy one?


RE: Is it cheap?
By Belard on 6/3/09, Rating: 0
RE: Is it cheap?
By Rev1 on 6/1/2009 9:00:17 PM , Rating: 2
You obviously aren't really following whats going on here are you?


RE: Is it cheap?
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 6/2/2009 9:37:14 AM , Rating: 2
I'll take a MiTo in a second. Especially a sports model!


RE: Is it cheap?
By sprockkets on 6/1/2009 7:47:55 PM , Rating: 3
The "free" market took care of that when gas hit $4+ a gallon. All of a sudden SUVs became worthless, and the Honda Fit and hybrids were selling big time.

People used to buy trucks to work with. Now we have my neighbor across the street who is 70+, driving a Ford Super Duty dually truck, and the idiot cannot even back out of his own driveway without hitting his mailbox or creaming my friends car door on my side of the street. It takes him over a minute to back up and he can't do it without coming on to our lawn.

But, that's America, land of the waste.


RE: Is it cheap?
By Rev1 on 6/1/2009 9:04:48 PM , Rating: 3
"The "free" market took care of that when gas hit $4+ a gallon. All of a sudden SUVs became worthless, and the Honda Fit and hybrids were selling big time."

Yea but what happened when the price went down? stockpiles of garbage slow as hell hybrids were sitting on lots where they belong.


RE: Is it cheap?
By SuperFly03 on 6/1/2009 10:08:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yea but what happened when the price went down? stockpiles of garbage slow as hell hybrids were sitting on lots where they belong.


+1.

rofl.

Get those 0-60 in 15 second pieces of garbage off the freeways. When you can't make it to freeway speeds before hitting the main lane you cause havoc. Then couple that with the fact that those who drive the cars generally drive slower and never gun it and you get a cluster fu...


RE: Is it cheap?
By mikeyD95125 on 6/1/2009 11:11:13 PM , Rating: 3
Anyone can run a small hybrid over. The real problem is huge expeditions, navigators, and suburbans merging super slow AND with a huge blind spot the person driving usually doesn't bother to look at. And of course there is usually 1-2 people in the car.


RE: Is it cheap?
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 6/2/2009 9:43:49 AM , Rating: 1
Of course, if everyone drove the speed limit, then your argument doesn't hold water. It is not speed that kills, but different speeds on the same road. So how about we get the speeders in their giant killing machines to slow down, and then the hybrid acceleration is not a problem.

BTW, I love the look on people's faces when I stomp the accelerator in my Camry hybrid on the highway. 100% instant torque at all RPM's. No revving like with the gas guzzlers.


RE: Is it cheap?
By mdogs444 on 6/2/09, Rating: 0
RE: Is it cheap?
By Daphault on 6/3/2009 1:32:35 AM , Rating: 2
And I love the look on the faces of people like you who think they have this great well of power and get wasted even before reaching the other side of the intersection by a "ricebox".

I think it's funny you think the Tahoe has pure power. I have more HP and more torque with less than half the displacement. Guess what? Better highway and city gas mileage too, including the Hybrid Tahoe. Go do a run on a Dyno Dynamics or Maha dyno and let's compare the area under the curve.


RE: Is it cheap?
By sprockkets on 6/2/2009 2:37:46 AM , Rating: 3
You do realize that there are many cars that can't even do 0-60 in 7 seconds, and that the Prius can do 0-60 around 10 seconds, and Honda's new Insight at 10.8, rolling start, meaning a real life smooth start with no dropping the clutch at 5k rpms, and that a Toyota Corolla can only manage to do it in 9.3, a whopping 1.5 second less?

Now, if you want slow, then kill the 14.6 rolling start Smart. Hybrids? You'd be surprised at the nice amount of torque you get from an electric motor.


RE: Is it cheap?
By Spuke on 6/2/2009 11:42:43 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
You'd be surprised at the nice amount of torque you get from an electric motor.
In this case, that "nice amount of torque" doesn't translate to meaningful acceleration. Sure, it might feel nice (somehow doubt that with the 10 sec 0-60) but that's about it. I had a discussion about this on another forum and we basically agreed that most people are quite satisfied with a car that feels fast rather than actually being fast.


RE: Is it cheap?
By knutjb on 6/1/2009 7:12:05 PM , Rating: 2
Besides being ugly, the Yaris and other small Toyota's lack any sense of fun. The 500 has an Abarth model that is fun and has personality, something the Japanese makes have had trouble with. I will consider a car if it meets my needs, the current infusion of roller skates doesn't make me feel comfortable on the highway, it might be OK in the city. I do have extensive experience with small cars. I grew up with Triumphs, MGs etc... They were a lot of fun, though I physically could not fit in a Midget, too tall. I lived in the UK for 4 yrs and traveled through Europe for another 8 yrs. Tiny cars, while better than the small British and Japanese cars of the 60s-70s, they are not appropriate for all parts of the USA. They don't do so well around large trucks, deep snow, and they aren't much fun on a family road trip. They are great in the city though. I just don't want the Gov cramming one in my drive way. No, I don't own an SUV.


RE: Is it cheap?
By sprockkets on 6/1/2009 7:36:29 PM , Rating: 3
I drove my friends Echo, the older yaris, and while it was ugly and had an awkward distance of the pedals being too close relative to the steering wheel, it had a slick 5 speed and rev happy motor to it.

I wouldn't get one though, unless it was the last gen xA with the refreshed look.

Of course, it can never touch the fun a Mazda3 has.


RE: Is it cheap?
By gochichi on 6/2/2009 3:51:41 AM , Rating: 2
Affordability is a huge question with these cars.

This car is cool looking. I agree that the Smart car is the hugest freaking rip-off on this planet. I used to think people that owned one were kind of cool... but now that I've test driven one. OMG, yeah, a death-trap is about right. You'd have to be missing your brain to buy a "Smart" car.

I think that making this blanket statement that fuel-efficient cars are death traps is as ridiculous as the Smart car though. The Mini Cooper, even the S version is one fuel efficient car. The handling and performance make it way safe... perfectly safe. This ridiculous notion that SUVs are safe is ridiculous... they handle like crap, and even when vans and SUVs "feel like a car" in how they drive, it's amazing to me how physics just takes over and they perform horrendously.

People, let's get one fact straight, a full-size sedan is going to be about as safe as you can get. Bad performance characteristics are dangerous, and yeah, I'm not an eco-nut but getting the performance characteristics to be adequate on an SUV is pure wastefulness.

In terms of commuters the way to go if you have the money, is with a Civic, Corolla, Mazda 3, Ford Focus, etc. The Yaris, the Fit, etc. are a little desperate but they work great too. The Smart car is retarded and hopelessly inefficient. I mean if the Smart car got like 80mpg+ I'd concede that the craptastic car was at least efficient, but it only gets like 45mpg which is downright embarrassing for that kind of size, performance, and lack of safety/handling/peace of mind.

The Ford Fiesta that's coming out I'll definitely at least test drive. I think as small cars resurface, the car companies need to be careful with our money (we unwittingly own them so...). Just like Fred here thinks small cars are death traps... if more Smart-car types get released he'll be proven right and those cars will sit on the lot.

Most Americans would rather have a car thats a few years old that they like than to buy a new car that they don't. It's absolutely true that there needs to be more fuel efficient cars on the road, but it's never going to look like Europe here (and I thank God).

Whereas, cars can be efficient and safe and feel good (reassuring) on the road (e.g. Mini Cooper S., Toyota Corolla, Mazda 3, all varieties of Civics, Ford Focus).

I used to think of myself as on the eco-nut side of things, but I gotta tell you, these freaking companies need to be careful. We aren't going to risk our lives for the sake of polar bears. Efficiency is more than just some MPG number. Like if 8 people are traveling together... taking a Chevy suburban is fantastically efficient... far more efficient than taking 4 Smart cars.

If a dude is going to commute to bring home an income to his family, it is horribly inefficient to die on the way to or from. It is efficient though, to take a Civic... far more so than taking an Escalade. A Cooper S is even more efficient because you get to have a blast on your commute as well... and you get some sun too... very efficient.


RE: Is it cheap?
By Spuke on 6/2/2009 11:48:18 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
a blast on your commute as well... and you get some sun too... very efficient.
You need to look up the definition of efficient.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/efficien...


RE: Is it cheap?
By Samus on 6/2/2009 6:33:51 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Toyota Yaris hatchback with manual tranny is your car. Can't get more frugal, reliable and cheap 4-seater today than Yaris.


The Yaris hasn't proven very reliable (for a Toyota) as you are equally better off with a Aveo, Fit or Versa.

The best small car you can buy today is and always has been the Ford Focus. It's the safest, most well equiped and best handling (its the only car in this class that still has independent suspension...) It's reliability and fuel economy figures are competative as well, and its cheaper than all comparable imports.


RE: Is it cheap?
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 6/2/2009 9:46:27 AM , Rating: 2
I thought all FWD vehicles had independent suspension. What are the other FWD cars in the segment with solid axles?


RE: Is it cheap?
By Amiga500 on 6/2/2009 9:53:41 AM , Rating: 2
Many use a trailing link on the rear "axle".


RE: Is it cheap?
By lagomorpha on 6/4/2009 1:02:16 AM , Rating: 2
To be fair the torsion beam rear suspension is more of a semi-independent suspension. A well setup torsion beam can give handling comparative to a well setup MacPherson strut while allowing for more rear cargo space.


RE: Is it cheap?
By nugundam93 on 6/2/2009 1:56:56 PM , Rating: 2
nissan sentra


RE: Is it cheap?
By corduroygt on 6/2/2009 12:46:17 PM , Rating: 2
Too bad Toyota doesn't bring the 4-door hatchback Yaris with the 1.4 turbodiesel engine I drove in Europe over here. That car has a lot of torque at low rpms and would be the perfect inner city, cheap and cheerful car for the US.


RE: Is it cheap?
By DigitalFreak on 6/1/2009 4:54:41 PM , Rating: 3
I never understood the appeal of the Smart car. Like arazok mentioned mentioned, you can get a Civic for the same price. I guess it's meant to appeal to eco-hippies *cough*Mick*cough*.


RE: Is it cheap?
By JediJeb on 6/1/2009 5:34:40 PM , Rating: 2
I never could understand the car either. Only reason to buy one it so look like you are trying to be eco friendly because I have heard it only gets maybe 35mpg, and yet the Magnum wagon V6 a coworker just bought got them 31mpg on a trip over the holiday. Even the Corvette can come close to the milage of a Smart car, which reminds me of what I saw last fall here when driving to work.
I was following a Smart car with a custom plate that read SIP GAS. When it turned into a gas station the car in front of it was a Corvette which also had a custom plate that read BG DEAL. I only wish I had had a video camera because that is a once in a lifetime shot. I laughed all the way to work that morning.


RE: Is it cheap?
By ats on 6/1/2009 6:30:58 PM , Rating: 2
its the differential between highway and city driving patterns. Things like the smart do extremely well in stop and go traffic as well as short trips where things like vettes and wagons burn gas insanely fast.


RE: Is it cheap?
By mcnabney on 6/1/2009 8:56:39 PM , Rating: 2
You have no idea what you are talking about.

The Smart has the worst transmission known to all of mankind, but it does get over 30mpg city and almost 40 on the highway. I think the 'vette gets 18 in the city and 28 on the highway - aka - not even close.


RE: Is it cheap?
By sxr7171 on 6/1/2009 7:23:59 PM , Rating: 2
It's not about being Eco, that's the Prius. In the city a car that can be parked sideways into a street side parallel parking spot is invaluable. It's expensive for sure, but it has it's place in the bigger cities of the world.


RE: Is it cheap?
By Zoomer on 6/1/2009 10:51:24 PM , Rating: 2
...And probably be ticketed for the privilege.


RE: Is it cheap?
By cubdukat on 6/1/2009 4:56:29 PM , Rating: 2
In the 500's defense, a collision in it won't send you airborne, unlike the rolling deathtrap known as the Smart Two...

Cars like that should come with self-destruct buttons that you hit before you get into an accident.

Never trust any car that doesn't have enough power to get out of its own way, let alone anyone else's.


RE: Is it cheap?
By AmazighQ on 6/1/2009 5:02:37 PM , Rating: 2
having a small second care is what they do here in Europa for years.


RE: Is it cheap?
By Lord 666 on 6/1/2009 5:34:57 PM , Rating: 5
So is having a second smaller women when the primary one gets too large.


RE: Is it cheap?
By Pessimism on 6/2/2009 8:36:22 AM , Rating: 2
Someone give this man a medal.


RE: Is it cheap?
By MonkeyPaw on 6/1/2009 5:26:25 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I’ve always wanted to buy a tiny car just to commute to work in.


I guess that's fine if you don't use the highway system. I personally wouldn't want to freeway commute in a tiny car, as rush-hour always seems to be the most dangerous time to drive. Too many idoits with too little time.


RE: Is it cheap?
By Pirks on 6/1/2009 8:24:05 PM , Rating: 2
I ride in Toyota Echo with my wife (she's driving, I'm too lazy to get a license, in commie-infested BC it takes a f#cking YEAR of wait time before one can get a class 7 license).

We take trips outside of Vancouver once in a while, travel on a freeway with a speed of 110 km/h usually. I never felt unsafe or "wobbly" in Echo, it's actually blazingly fast, the engine just starts to rev and it's already 110 km/h, way above posted speed limit on a freeway (usually it's 90 km/h here in BC).

Dunno about the US, I heard US drivers are crazy speeding lunatics compared to Canandian ones, so maybe yes, in the US you gotta buy an M1A2 or a Humvee to feel safe. Luckily in Canada Echo is one of the best cars overall, especially on our freeways.

I'd never understand someone singing songs about puny tiny cars on freeway, etc etc. I definitely do NOT feel like that in Echo. Although I heard a lot about stuff like this but when I bought it there was nothing unsafe or shaky in this car. We pass pimped out BMWs and MBs and Lexuses on a highway routinely because we're on a HOV lane and they aren't (usually rich Chinese soccer moms in Lexuses, a common sight in Vancouver).

So... it must be a US thing then, about tiny cars on freeways. Not Canadian, luckily for me :-)


RE: Is it cheap?
By SuperFly03 on 6/1/2009 10:15:49 PM , Rating: 1
Doesn't scare you until you try and turn/swerve and that's when you realize those P175 tires have as much traction as the greased up deaf guy.


RE: Is it cheap?
By Pirks on 6/2/2009 2:53:31 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not a speeding US lunatic, neither is my wife, so I'm afraid there will be no chance to experience what you're talking about. I'm not going to go 160 km/h like desperado Americans do on their highways. Forget it. No American 160 km/h speed -> no problems with tires, buddy.


RE: Is it cheap?
By Amiga500 on 6/2/2009 8:18:00 AM , Rating: 2
Ha ha ha...

There is a thing called driver skill you use to avoid that problem.

I guess with the big spongy barges which use a telegram to communicate between tyres and steering wheel that you lot have over there, its not really fair of me to ridicule you for it!

You'll have more fun in a fiat 500 than you'll have in most sports cars.

Simply 'cos you can drift through corners on tuck-in oversteer at ludicrously low speeds without risking getting a speeding ticket.

Oh, and those high profile skinny tyres are less likely to aquaplane, and will work better in snow/slush.


RE: Is it cheap?
By SuperFly03 on 6/2/2009 7:54:20 PM , Rating: 2
I live in Texas... we don't know the meaning of the word snow. :p

Side note: Driver skill is what you use to avoid idiots swerving into your lane or people who brake for no apparent reason or maybe the ones who randomly go at a red light. The real danger is people who can't drive... definitely more so than the car itself.


RE: Is it cheap?
By JediJeb on 6/1/2009 5:45:13 PM , Rating: 5
I agree. Whatever happened to cars that were just for the purpose of getting you from one point to another. I haven't bought a new truck since 1996 because the new ones look so fancy you would hate to get them dirty. Make us some new vehicles that don't have multimedia centers and babysitters built in, but are tough and durable and fairly inexpensive and I would buy one.


RE: Is it cheap?
By Anonymous Freak on 6/2/2009 1:10:52 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, when the Smart first came out in the U.S., my reaction was "huh?"

I had thought that the Smart was supposed to be a high-gas-mileage (50 MPG,) low-cost ($10,000) car. Yet it is barely less than a Civic, with the same gas mileage, only smaller. (Or a Yaris with 40% the seating capacity.) The early "gray market" imports were even worse, half the mileage of the European models, and nearly $40,000!


RE: Is it cheap?
By BZDTemp on 6/2/2009 7:20:37 AM , Rating: 2
Over here the price of the 500 is about the same as a Mazda 2 so it is cheap but not the cheapest. It also a lot better than the cheapest cars which really are like card board boxes with paint on them.

Quality wise Fiat is on par with most other brands so if you can buy a Ford you can also buy a Fiat.

The Fiat 500 is like a true peoples car and not like the Mini and the Bettle which are both fashion items rather than being true to the original versions. Also for that very reason the Fiat is cool and the other two are just stupid.


Crossbreed
By FITCamaro on 6/1/2009 3:59:59 PM , Rating: 1
Between a bug and a Mini. Call it the Meetle.




RE: Crossbreed
By Aquila76 on 6/1/2009 9:40:36 PM , Rating: 2
"Bugini" sounds more Italian, though.


RE: Crossbreed
By Amiga500 on 6/2/2009 8:19:16 AM , Rating: 2
Bugatti's younger brother ;-)


RE: Crossbreed
By frobizzle on 6/2/2009 8:41:36 AM , Rating: 2
FIAT = F ailure of I talian A utomotive T echnology


RE: Crossbreed
By Amiga500 on 6/2/2009 9:54:41 AM , Rating: 2
No no no no!

Fix It Again Tomorrow...

Jeez!!! :-P


Hmmm...I don't know...
By Motoman on 6/1/2009 3:49:30 PM , Rating: 5
...is the Fiat 500 truly 200 better than a Chrysler 300?

What's the exchange rate on car model numbers anyway?




I welcome the car!
By Dailyrant on 6/1/2009 5:03:14 PM , Rating: 2
We have the choice to choose. If it's no good we dont buy it. The choice has been made about GM and Chrysler. They are now the Fiat of earlier. So yes please come and improve gas mileage and reliability if you can.




By TheOneShaman on 6/2/2009 7:38:29 AM , Rating: 2
It just looks like the original Fiat 500.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_500




yikes
By IlllI on 6/1/2009 3:53:48 PM , Rating: 1
looks like the bastard child of the vw beetle




Hmmm
By Spivonious on 6/1/2009 4:29:05 PM , Rating: 1
Not a snowball chance in H*ll...
By Beenthere on 6/1/09, Rating: -1
Why o Why
By Rev1 on 6/1/09, Rating: -1
Another 18mos, another POS
By mdogs444 on 6/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: Another 18mos, another POS
By acase on 6/1/2009 4:09:49 PM , Rating: 5
...you're an american voter?


RE: Another 18mos, another POS
By mdogs444 on 6/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: Another 18mos, another POS
By Lord 666 on 6/1/2009 4:55:35 PM , Rating: 1
Was just chatting with my wife yesterday when we chuckled seeing a moron women who plastered her car with Obama stickers.

What we commented about is we haven't seen any W '04 stickers in a long time. Do you still have one on your car(s)


RE: Another 18mos, another POS
By mdogs444 on 6/1/2009 5:33:35 PM , Rating: 1
I never had a W sticker. In fact, I've never put on a single sticker supporting a political figure for elections.

I do have a bumper sticker on the back window of my new Tahoe though:

"I'll keep my religion, guns, and paycheck. You can keep the change."


RE: Another 18mos, another POS
By Regected on 6/1/2009 10:10:33 PM , Rating: 4
Mine says "Don't tread on me"


RE: Another 18mos, another POS
By cubdukat on 6/1/2009 4:51:42 PM , Rating: 4
And you know this how? Fiat hasn't made a car in this country in 20+ years. It's quite probable they've learned a thing or two about quality control. They said the same thing about Korean-made cars, and now they're up to Japanese levels of quality. Admittedly that's probably because Japanese quality levels have dropped somewhat to keep costs down, but it's still pretty respectable compared to where they were 20+ years ago.

Not to mention that the 500 has gotten very good reviews in the British press, and they have no qualms about totally savaging sub-par products.

I for one would have no problem giving Fiat a second chance. We need an affordable Italian car in this country again. But if they blow it again, then you write them off.


RE: Another 18mos, another POS
By mdogs444 on 6/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: Another 18mos, another POS
By PrinceGaz on 6/1/2009 7:11:10 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Not to mention that the 500 has gotten very good reviews in the British press, and they have no qualms about totally savaging sub-par products.


Living in Britain and watching every episode of Top Gear as it is first shown, I remember them saying the Fiat 500 combined the best bits regarding handling and performance of the equivalent Fiat Panda, but cut down on size and therefore luggage capacity compared with it. Essentially, the Fiat 500 was the pretty chic car to get, but the Panda would be just as good if you don't care about looks, and a lot better than the 500 when it comes to using it to move stuff. So James May would favour the Panda, while Jeremy and Richard would go for the 500.

If US car makers made more cars like those, they probably wouldn't all be going bankrupt. Small cars are the future. Small cars are also safer than large cars once most people are driving them because there is less kinetic energy to absorb. It doesn't matter how many airbags you have, the route to safety is small light cars, or public transport. And when we have computers driving them for us, it will be even better.


RE: Another 18mos, another POS
By GlobleWarmingisbunk on 6/2/2009 4:30:24 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
If US car makers made more cars like those, they probably wouldn't all be going bankrupt. Small cars are the future. Small cars are also safer than large cars once most people are driving them because there is less kinetic energy to absorb. It doesn't matter how many airbags you have, the route to safety is small light cars, or public transport.


Here is what I think. I will make this simple as not confuse the people who voted for the Obamanation.

1. Ever Heard of the Rocky Mountains. I will wake up one day 75 degrees beautiful day. Woke up the next day, three feet of snow. Sorry but I will keep My Pickup truck.

2. Have you ever taken a Smart Two fishing or hunting in the mountains. Sorry to burst you bubble but IT DOES NOT WORK. ( Nothing short of a Jeep Wrangler works where I go.)

3. FREEDOM. I have the right to go wherever I want, Whenever I want, I and choose the Vehicle I want, also I can choose how fast I want to go.

4. I do not buy into Global Warming and Climate Change what a load of bull****.

5. MPG Standards and Emission Standards are unconstitutional not to mention the government ownership of GM. Plus the Obamanation and his "change" for America.
the USSA ( THE UNITED SOCIALIST STATES of AMERICA)

HAVE A NICE DAY !!!!!

By the way
quote:
And when we have computers driving them for us, it will be even better.


You need to be dragged out into the streets and publicly executed.


RE: Another 18mos, another POS
By Amiga500 on 6/2/2009 8:27:37 AM , Rating: 1
*Snigger*

Hey redneck, if you knew your sh!t, you'd know a pickup is crap in the snow because there is virtually no weight on the back axle.

But, don't let me stop you deluding yourself.


RE: Another 18mos, another POS
By GlobleWarmingisbunk on 6/3/2009 2:27:34 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Hey redneck, if you knew your sh!t, you'd know a pickup is crap in the snow because there is virtually no weight on the back axle.


Hey Amiga500 news flash: SHUT UP.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

Lets engage brain and think about this.

I have a pickup with 4-Wheel drive. So in the snow I have the front wheels providing traction. Also most people who drive pickup trucks know that you put some kind of ballast in the bed to add weight (i.e sandbags, a toolbox, an elk, or whatever).

So I refer back to my original statement SHUT UP


RE: Another 18mos, another POS
By lagomorpha on 6/4/2009 1:11:14 AM , Rating: 2
You have a pickup with part time 4 wheel drive. If you get stuck in the snow you can maybe get yourself out. Last I checked all cars have 4 wheel brakes which is probably why I see so many SUVs end up stuck in ditches around here in winter "don't worry HURR I have 4 wheel drive!". Then there was the kid from Florida with an SUV and summer tires that wondered why he was having so much trouble in the snow...


RE: Another 18mos, another POS
By coolkev99 on 6/2/2009 8:40:12 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It doesn't matter how many airbags you have, the route to safety is small light cars, or public transport. And when we have computers driving them for us, it will be even better.


Yeah because life is all about safety, lets all become mindless, souless drones and let the computers move us everywhere. Safely. Safe and sound. Safe.


RE: Another 18mos, another POS
By donxvi on 6/2/2009 5:48:09 AM , Rating: 2
The worst part of this post is that I suspect you believe what you've written. At my job, we commission a survey of new car owners to get reports of vehicle quality. While they don't share 20 year old data with us, I can assure you that the entire industry is improving quality, and that the Koreans are not anywhere near on par with Toyota or Honda. GM & Ford are. I know, it's crazy !

It's funny to see a generation for whom 80's Japanese cars are the "be all, end all" benchmark cars of their youth, just like those of an older generation for whom muscle cars could do no wrong. I grew up in an era in which we didn't have too many hero cars.


LOL
By Yaron on 6/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: LOL
By judasmachine on 6/1/2009 8:50:07 PM , Rating: 1
Dude, I kind of like it. I'd buy it so long as the price is not larger than the car. But then the biggest car I've owned was an 87 Saab 900S.


RE: LOL
By Amiga500 on 6/2/09, Rating: 0
RE: LOL
By mdogs444 on 6/2/2009 10:02:34 AM , Rating: 2
Ahh Amiga500, you dirty little liberal. You're tactics are old.

You don't agree with what I believe, but since there's nothing I can do about, I'm just going to attack you personally because I have nothing of real content to talk about.

You idiots do that on everything from illegal immigration, to global warming fallacy, to racism, to taxation, to socialism...and whatever else.

The bottom line for you Amiga is that you are sweating wealth envy. You can't have what other people can, so you attack them for it...because equal is always better you think. We can all bathe in a puddle of piss and drive a coffin on wheels...but as long as everyone does it, its fine.

Grow up man. Get a real job. Mind your own business.


RE: LOL
By Amiga500 on 6/2/2009 11:24:51 AM , Rating: 2
My tactics are old?

They are as old as the adage about Porsche drivers having small d*cks... which morphed into those idiots with the big 4x4s that never climbed a kerb never mind a rock garden having small d*cks and needing to compensate!

Its not an old tactic, its a common phrase that has existed for 30 years. If you ventured out in the big world, you might come across someone using it. I don't think you'll hear Billy Bob and his brother Billy Bob II use it down your local shootout bar - travel, see the world, learn.

You ever seen an Ariel Atom in the flesh? Or a Caterham? They aren't big cars, but by f**k they are 10 times better than any SUV (which are incidentally, crap to drive quick due to the high c.g).

quote:
You idiots do that on everything from illegal immigration, to global warming fallacy, to racism, to taxation, to socialism...and whatever else.


I'd be most interested to see where your going with the racism line.

quote:
The bottom line for you Amiga is that you are sweating wealth envy.


How many guys with doctrates in aerospace engineering do you know is on the bread line?

Education, education, education. When you grow up, develop some maturity, maybe even a few brain cells, then you can come back and argue. Till then...

Knowledge is the enemy of many conservatives... people not unlike yourself.


RE: LOL
By mdogs444 on 6/2/2009 11:33:37 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
How many guys with doctrates in aerospace engineering do you know is on the bread line?

Probably the one who cannot spell doctorate correctly.
quote:
When you grow up, develop some maturity

..from the same guy who says:
quote:
Porsche drivers having small d*cks

quote:
those idiots with the big 4x4s that never climbed a kerb

quote:
you'll hear Billy Bob and his brother Billy Bob II use it down your local shootout bar


quote:
I'd be most interested to see where your going with the racism line

Hmm, from the one who classifies truck driving whites as:Billy Bob and his brother Billy Bob II use it down your local shootout bar

You don't have a doctorate, and you're not an engineer. You have the grammar and word skills of a 16 year old punk who swallowed the liberal pill of your code pink art teacher.

Again, get a life, and stop living off my tax dollars.


RE: LOL
By Amiga500 on 6/2/2009 1:02:58 PM , Rating: 2
Whoopie. I missed an o...

Its as well I've rocket scientists like you around to keep me right!

I class stupid, xenophobic truck driving whites as Billy Bob and Billy Bob II, world of difference.

I'm not living off your tax dollars as I am not an American. You realise there is more countries in the world than the US of A? You ever travelled to any? Unlikely...


RE: LOL
By mdogs444 on 6/2/2009 1:18:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Its as well I've rocket scientists like you around to keep me right!

You were the aerospace engineer right? Oh wait, so now you're not. Yes, I was correct - 16 year old liberal punk from Europe. Its no wonder you have no idea what's going on.
quote:
I class stupid, xenophobic truck driving whites as Billy Bob and Billy Bob II, world of difference.

Considering you're not from the United States, then you really have no idea of the lifestyle or any in depth knowledge of these people you refer to as "Billy Bob and Billy Bob II".
quote:
You realise there is more countries in the world than the US of A?

You realize that those countries mostly exist today because of the United States in WWI and WWII. Wait, what was that - you really did want to speak German?
quote:
You ever traveled to any? Unlikely...

I don't see the need to spend money inside a country who has views that I don't want to be associated with. I can see your country's highlights on the Travel Channel. I prefer to stick to my domain where I'm free to do what I want.


RE: LOL
By Amiga500 on 6/2/2009 1:55:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You were the aerospace engineer right?


I am, although I know a bit about rocket design, 'tis not my specialist area.

As you obviously don't realise, 'rocket scientist' used in that fashion is a figure of speech... as used throughout most of the world, you should get out more.

quote:
Considering you're not from the United States, then you really have no idea of the lifestyle


I have enough of an idea of the lifestyle, you can learn some from reading. You can also learn alot from their stupidity and lack of knowledge.

quote:
You realize that those countries mostly exist today because of the United States in WWI and WWII. Wait, what was that - you really did want to speak German?


HA HA HA HA HA

I'd be speaking Russian now. The US didn't win the war, the Soviets did. But I don't suppose you ever bothered to look into that in great detail before.

quote:
You ever traveled to any? Unlikely...


Europe is a country now? Very good.

Right now I am asking myself, "why am I wasting my time trying to talk logic with an idiot?"


RE: LOL
By GlobleWarmingisbunk on 6/3/2009 2:50:14 AM , Rating: 2
Hey Amiga500: Shut up.

quote:
I have enough of an idea of the lifestyle, you can learn some from reading. You can also learn alot from their stupidity and lack of knowledge.


Lack of knowledge, really? Than who posted

quote:
Hey redneck, if you knew your sh!t, you'd know a pickup is crap in the snow because there is virtually no weight on the back axle. But, don't let me stop you deluding yourself.


Not to mention
quote:
HA HA HA HA HA I'd be speaking Russian now. The US didn't win the war, the Soviets did. But I don't suppose you ever bothered to look into that in great detail before.


If Hitler Hadn’t tried to taken on both the Soviets and British at the same time. He could of stomped the Soviets then taken on the British. Forgot to look up that detail eh.


RE: LOL
By snakeInTheGrass on 6/3/2009 4:59:50 PM , Rating: 2
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here this is the war room!

Nyet, comrade - if the Americans hadn't flooded the world with weapons, it's doubtful the Soviets would have done quite so well. Certainly the Americans/Brits didn't provide the majority of the bodies to grind the Wehrmacht down, but them opening a second front at least hastened the end by splitting the defense effort. But if not troops, the materiel was key, which started flowing before the US was at war at all.

As for Hitler stomping the Soviets first, then the Brits - he would have had to take on the Brits first since England had declared war on him when he invaded Poland - though oddly they allied with the other country that invaded Poland. Then again, England declared war to liberate Poland from evil Fascism, so letting a nice guy like Stalin have it at the end of the war really made a lot of sense. Crap, never mind - well, I'm sure it made a better propaganda point than whatever the real reason was for jumping into it (*cough* British global empire, not anything evil like those other bastards - excepting Stalin - had *cough*).

So what's this Fiat thing, then? And all of that aside... pickups are for rednecks, you do know that, right?


RE: LOL
By Spuke on 6/2/2009 1:50:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You ever seen an Ariel Atom in the flesh? Or a Caterham?
Both of those cars are awesome and my dream car is an Atom (here in the US they cost $65k+..too much for me) but not practical at all and really only good for weekend work. And I drive a two seat convertible sports car everyday. My wife and I aren't SUV fanatics and I used to be anti-SUV until I saw their utility. They really work well for the lifestyles of most American families.


RE: LOL
By Amiga500 on 6/2/2009 2:00:43 PM , Rating: 2
My parents have a farm, I also see the utility of proper 4x4s and pick-ups, very useful for moving small groups of cattle around in trailers.

But a pukka 4x4 is not an SUV, never was, never will be. Many delude themselves into equating one to the other. A 2WD mini-van will do a better job, but does not sell as well. Illogical.

(Yeah, the atom is a f**king great car - mate of mine helped with the aerodynamics of it - even though it doesn't look like there was much aero work done)

I suppose slightly more practical alternatives are the MR2 and S2000... but less fun.


RE: LOL
By Spuke on 6/2/2009 4:22:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But a pukka 4x4 is not an SUV, never was, never will be. Many delude themselves into equating one to the other. A 2WD mini-van will do a better job, but does not sell as well. Illogical.
I don't know what a pukka is but I am quite familiar with minivans. They are great for hauling just people and a little bit of stuff but a large SUV (say Chevy Suburban or Tahoe LWB) is better at hauling people with lots of stuff. Minivans do get about 3-4 mpg better on the highway than large SUV's. City mileage is similar.

I don't really get the mid-sized and small SUV's although Saturn's Outlook can carry 7 people fairly comfortably with almost as much room for stuff as the large SUV's. I actually think the Outlook is the way to go as the gas mileage is the same as minivans but they carry almost as much stuff as large SUV's.


RE: LOL
By Yaron on 6/2/2009 7:27:34 PM , Rating: 2
Naaaa... dude, you got it all wrong.
I was laughing at the idea of Americans that are used to big cars and pickups suddenly driving a small car like a Fiat 500.

I think its funny. Has nothing to do with self esteem.

-Off topic-
With regards to WW1 / WW2:
The Americans didn't "win" the war per se, but they did doom the germans in WW1 by entering the war (late!), sending 1 million soldiers and materials.

In WW2, the Russians definitely didn't win the war. If any, it was the US that held everything together. Consider this: the US fought at Europe and the far east at the same time, while supplying their own armies, the British AND the Russians.
The Russians would never have lasted without the supplies the US sent them and they openly admit it to this day. I think it qualifies as "we won the war" :)

credit should be given, when credit is due.


"The Space Elevator will be built about 50 years after everyone stops laughing" -- Sir Arthur C. Clarke

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