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Print 56 comment(s) - last by bigdawg1988.. on Feb 7 at 1:24 PM
Fiat hopes to score big with supersized 500L

It's not that cheap, it's not all that fuel efficient for its size, and it's not exactly commodious, so it should be no surprise that the Fiat 500 hasn't exactly found an audience here in the United States. Fiat was forecasting sales of 50,000 500s for all of 2011 -- instead, the company only managed to move 19,769 of the tiny four-seaters during the year.
 
Then it should come as no surprise that the Fiat 500 made many lists as one of the biggest flops of 2011 for any industry.
 
Fiat, however, isn't going to take this beating lightly. The company has just unveiled the 500L which won't address the price factor (it'll likely be more expensive), it won't be any more fuel efficient (it'll likely be even thirstier), but it will be more spacious.

 
The 500L measures 162.9 inches long and just over 70 inches wide compared to 139 inches and 64.1 inches respectively for the diminutive standard 500 hatchback. The added length and with will allow the 500L to compete with the Mini Clubman and the Mini Countryman wagons/crossovers which are doing quite well in the U.S. market.
 
The added length will also go a long way towards making the 500L more attractive to those that want a bit more rear legroom and the ability to throw more than a few duffle bags in the trunk.
 
Fiat hasn't officially committed to bringing the 500L to the United States, but it's pretty much a given that the company won't let Mini have the small, quirky, "premium" hatch market to itself in the United States.

Sources: Autoblog, Yahoo Finance


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Slam
By JimboK29 on 2/2/2012 10:21:41 AM , Rating: 2
So you call the Fiat a flop in sales, but not the Volt? We all know what we're gonna get on DT these days.




RE: Slam
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/2/2012 10:20:57 AM , Rating: 3
Don't worry, the Volt story is up next... another down month ;)


RE: Slam
By Reclaimer77 on 2/2/2012 10:31:28 AM , Rating: 4
I think if Hitler made an electric car, some of these people would view him in a more favorable light. Maybe that's unfair of me to say, but the blatant double-standard some people apply to the Volt, simply because it's "greener", is shocking and unfortunate.

About the Fiat, well I sat here last year and said it would be a flop, and was flamed down. Not only is it really hard for a completely unknown brand to break into a new market. But Fiat made this doubly hard by offering a vehicle that's only viable for a small segment of the population, and not even that impressive compared to other small cars to boot.


RE: Slam
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/2/2012 10:29:31 AM , Rating: 5
The problem with the Fiat is that it's actually smaller and crappier than the Mini Cooper, but they want Mini Cooper money.


RE: Slam
By Reclaimer77 on 2/2/2012 10:41:08 AM , Rating: 2
I agree. I remember pointing that out last year and getting trolled to hell.

Honestly, I do NOT understand why people get defensive whenever someone doesn't hail any small car as the second coming. Why? When did cars get so goddamn politicized? It's terrible. What happened?


RE: Slam
By kattanna on 2/2/2012 10:51:38 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
When did EVERYTHING get so goddamn politicized? It's terrible. What happened?


corrected it for you

and yes, it is amazing how no one is allowed to say anything negative about anything..unless its cool and hip at the time. netflix a couple months back being a good example LOL


RE: Slam
By Reclaimer77 on 2/2/2012 11:01:06 AM , Rating: 3
I know... Getting older isn't everything it's cracked up to be sometimes. Remember when we were kids and we would worship the sleek Ferrari's, gorgeous Porches. And the engines. Man the rumble of a huge V8 would just send chills up your spine. The awesome whine of F1 V12's as they blasted through a straight. Remember being stuck in your parents car, being driven somewhere, and you catch a glimpse at a real gorgeous exotic and say to yourself "Man, one day, that will be me!"

Then you grow up and people tell you what a piece of crap you are and how you're killing the planet if you feel this way or that. Sigh...


RE: Slam
By kattanna on 2/2/2012 11:14:51 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Getting older isn't everything it's cracked up to be sometimes


one thing that keeps me chuckling is what i call the confirmation of cluelessness. many times growing up "adults" would say something as fact that just sounded like total BS to me at the time. now i KNOW it was total BS LOL

quote:
Remember when we were kids and we would worship the sleek Ferrari's, gorgeous Porches


for me it was porche. always thought they were damn sexy cars and got to drive a couple which only added to reinforce that idea. so with that i felt "betrayed" as silly as it sounds when they came out with that damn SUV of theirs. i know the company needed to do it, but damn.. that killed that image for me.

quote:
Then you grow up and people tell you what a piece of crap you are and how you're killing the planet if you feel this way or that. Sigh...


LOL yup. though actually i get a kick out of people trying to tell me all about global warming. after i let them ramble on then proceed to tell them im actually working on my degree in geophysics and start giving them actual data, it always makes for a good chuckle on my part.

that and i dont give 2 shitters what they think. i love my V8 durango, even though it hasnt meet a gas station it doesnt like hahaha


RE: Slam
By Spuke on 2/2/2012 2:05:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
i know the company needed to do it, but damn.. that killed that image for me.
They're my favorite car company but I hated them for a quite a while when they did that. I understand needed to also but it sucked. I got over it though since I now can afford one (haven't bought one yet...never a Cayenne though). :)

quote:
that and i dont give 2 shitters what they think. i love my V8 durango, even though it hasnt meet a gas station it doesnt like hahaha
Had a rental with a Hemi once. LOVED the car but man was that thing thirsty. LOL! That and it wallowed a bit too much for me, but Bilstein can fix that. I don't care much either. My daughter used to give me SOME crap but I do what I want (and she knows it) so it would only go so far.


RE: Slam
By Reclaimer77 on 2/2/2012 6:49:36 PM , Rating: 2
Haha I hear ya. But at least they made, bar none, the most badass SUV the planet has ever seen. Still is.

But I know what you mean. It kind of ruins the "purist" image of the company.

Now that 4 door sedan they made on the other hand...ugh, I dunno.


RE: Slam
By Lord 666 on 2/2/2012 9:39:41 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, the VW Toureg V10 TDI takes that title.


RE: Slam
By Reclaimer77 on 2/3/2012 11:32:14 AM , Rating: 2
Please give me a link. Because I can't even find a 2012 Toureg V10 TDI. And honestly, no way something diesel powered can come close to the excitement of driving a Cayenne.


RE: Slam
By Lord 666 on 2/4/2012 6:46:18 PM , Rating: 2
VW made them 2004 - 2007. They created several records using mostly bone stock trucks on Pike's peak and don't forget it won the DARPA challenge - http://cs.stanford.edu/group/roadrunner//old/index...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volkswagen-Touareg-...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Touareg


RE: Slam
By Lord 666 on 2/4/2012 7:09:55 PM , Rating: 2
Here is the current production V8 TDI for the Toureg - http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/new/touareg-nf/which...

340HP/590lb torque that launches the sled to 0-62mph in 5.8 seconds... all while getting 25.8mpg. Already converted that to US figures.

Not fast enough for you? Check this out - http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/bmw-m-cars-dies... For the M550d, it rockets 0-62 in 4.7 seconds while getting 37.3mpg (converted to US) average.

Both vehicles meet Tier 5 Bin 2


RE: Slam
By kattanna on 2/3/2012 10:58:59 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Now that 4 door sedan they made on the other hand...ugh, I dunno.


yeah.. what the hell..

was driving around a couple months back and saw..it..and was shocked to see the porcshe logo on.. that thing

LOL


RE: Slam
By Jeffk464 on 2/2/2012 12:03:46 PM , Rating: 1
The mini cooper isn't really crappy, its just not your type of car. There is a difference.


RE: Slam
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/2/2012 12:52:06 PM , Rating: 2
I actually like the Mini Cooper. I was just stating that the 500 is a crappy copy.


RE: Slam
By Mitch101 on 2/2/2012 12:26:44 PM , Rating: 2
I never heard or saw the Fiat 500 until this article. I think Poor Advertising is playing a role.


RE: Slam
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/2/2012 12:52:37 PM , Rating: 2
RE: Slam
By Mitch101 on 2/2/2012 3:23:26 PM , Rating: 2
WOW thanks. I now have to say they aren't airing the commercial enough.


RE: Slam
By Reclaimer77 on 2/2/12, Rating: 0
RE: Slam
By Manch on 2/2/2012 4:29:21 PM , Rating: 2
I just watched it. First thing that came to mind was Bring back the hot chick!


RE: Slam
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/3/2012 11:30:07 AM , Rating: 2
She's not even Italian, she's Romanian.


RE: Slam
By bigdawg1988 on 2/7/2012 1:24:41 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not sure I understand the commercial. So he was daydreaming about this hot chick, and then it switches to the nightmare of this crappy car?
I want to throw a brick at them for implying that this car has anything to do with that woman. Maybe they should have shown a skinny meth-head chick instead.


RE: Slam
By bigdawg1988 on 2/7/2012 12:49:03 PM , Rating: 2
I think Poor Advertising is playing a role.

Perhaps, but I think that ugly as hell styling might be playing a bigger role. Can't believe Fiat is still in business.... Damn, those Italian banks sure know how to prop up a company.


RE: Slam
By Natch on 2/2/2012 1:27:19 PM , Rating: 2
Don't forget uglier. A matter of taste, and I certainly wouldn't buy either one of them, but the Fiat definitely is the uglier in a contest of "ugly small foreign cars".


RE: Slam
By Iaiken on 2/2/2012 1:54:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The problem with the Fiat is that it's actually smaller and crappier than the Mini Cooper


I think it's funny that even with the added competition from Fiat 500, MINI was able to still sell 14.9% more cars this year than they did the year before. Now this gain was completely comprised of the new Countryman, but the fact that the more expensive Coopers were able to stand their ground against the 500 says something.

The problem with the Fiat 500 is that it's not just cheaper to buy, it's just plain cheaply made. The pedals are mushy (especially the clutch), the steering response is sloppy, the suspension is terrible and the interiors are just horrendous. It is slower, it is less nimble and the upright driving position results in you getting pulled on as the car sways heavily into a turn.

When it comes to electronics, the 500 is far less sophisticated. No three stage traction control, no stability control, no hill-start assist, no automatic climate control, the stereo is just a basic head unit coupled to speakers that even manage to sound cheap.

Now a lot of people are going to think "oh yeah, but it's $4000 cheaper", but the problem is that it FEELS like you are getting $8000 less car. I think this sucks; I wanted the 500 to do well, I wanted it to force MINI to up it's game before I came back to the market for a new car. Now I have to pin that hope on the 2012 Beetle of all things.


RE: Slam
By Keeir on 2/2/2012 1:02:20 PM , Rating: 2
I think people have trouble with this concept.

Volt Sales 2011 - 7,671
Projected Goal - 10,000
Percentage- 75%

Fiat 500 Sales 2011 ~21,000
Project Goal - 50,000
Percentage- 42%

Seems like the Fiat 500 was a much more massive flop no?

Volt isn't really in the flop category (yet!) except for people wanting to get page hits. (Many cars fell well below 75% of thier projected sales totals including Insight, CRZ, Fit, Acura RL, Acura TL, Ridgeline... just within 1 company)

BTW, I agree with you 100% on small cars. Small cars simply do not work in the United States. The overwhelming preference for the past 40 years in the US has been for the current Toyota Camry/Honda Accord sized cars. Unless the US passes a high gas tax or other restrictive tax measures on engine displacement/wieght... its unlikely any small car will be "popular" enough to break into 100,000+ sales territory... with the possible exception of the cheapest fleet machine.


RE: Slam
By twhittet on 2/2/2012 10:30:32 AM , Rating: 2
The Fiat is a normal car, with no exotic materials or building issues, and sold 39% of projected units.

The Volt is harder to build, the battery materials are harder to source, and sold over 75% of their projected 2011 units.

2012 admittedly may be a harder year for the Volt.


RE: Slam
By LordSojar on 2/2/2012 10:55:59 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
So you call the Fiat a flop in sales, but not the Volt? We all know what we're gonna get on DT these days.


Well... no... actually, just the Fiat was a flop in sales, and is a focus of the article. See... when a person writing an article, or really anything worth reading, they come up with a main topic that is the central focus of said publication and they use exhaustive testing and/or logic to attempt to reason the causation of the issue; it's what you call "liberal academia," but in reality it's just simple logic and reasonable deductions based on a very reliable method.

So you see, this article's topic is, in fact, the Fiat 500. It doesn't mention the Volt due to several primary reasons, the primary one being that the Volt isn't the Fiat 500 (remember, the Fiat 500 is the topic, following?) In addition to the primary reason being that one is not the other, we could also point out that the Volt is, as you so clearly continue to point out, "an electric vehicle that no one wants and that is stupid, etc etc" and you do so ad nauseum. It is also not an American car. It is also of completely different styling, having a much more European design, and in the same vein if I might, being much more European city sized.

Just because something isn't mentioned in an article randomly and at every turn, doesn't mean it's some crazy liberal conspiracy not to talk about it. See, that's how article topics work; going off on random tangents about other things makes the article seem a bit odd and certainly would suggest bias against the Volt... UNLESS you're suggesting that the Volt isn't so evil that it doesn't deserve it's own article! MY GOD MAN, are you feeling alright?!

So take off the tin hat, I'm sure a thread spewing hateful vitriol at the Volt will pop up soon enough so you can get your fix. You have problem if you're going into every thread that is even semi relative and screaming foul play on the part of the "liberal media."

Might I recommend rehab? Admitting your problem is the real first step towards recovery!


RE: Slam
By bah12 on 2/2/2012 11:54:11 AM , Rating: 2
Amen! If I wanted every article based on a specific topic to spin off into the authors personal agenda, I'd read Mick.


RE: Slam
By Arsynic on 2/2/2012 11:52:59 AM , Rating: 2
You know if you speak against Obama Motors you will get skewered by those who are obliged to defend our Dear Ruler.

At any rate, Fiat needs to go after the Mini, hipster crowd. Using J-Lo in a commercial doesn't do that. J-Lo appeals more to the urban community than to the liberal hipsters who believe that they are protecting the environment by driving a small car.


RE: Slam
By Jeffk464 on 2/2/2012 12:02:27 PM , Rating: 2
Nope, this will be flop number two.


Size isn't the problem...
By Samus on 2/2/2012 10:29:50 AM , Rating: 2
People looking for a small car (like my wife that works in Uptown, Chicago, where parking is pretty rough) considered this, and even loved the test drive, but the clunky manual transmission (who's going to get this with an automatic...really) and ridiculous price (a Mini Cooper is the same price while being substantially higher quality) are killing this thing.

The Abarth looks fun, but still, its expensive, slow, and low quality.

The shitbox of Italy befriends the shitmobiles of America. Fiat and Chrysler marriage made in heaven. The winds of shit are blowing.




RE: Size isn't the problem...
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/2/2012 10:28:27 AM , Rating: 2
Eh, I wouldn't be too hard on Chrysler. Their all-new products are pretty nice. My dad has a 2011 Dodge Durango AWD Crew V6. Lots of features, nice build quality, and the interior is actually nice for a change.

The new Grand Cherokee is also a great vehicle, as are the revamped Charger/300. We'll see how they do with the new Dodge Dart.

The rest of their stuff though, I agree... pure crap.


RE: Size isn't the problem...
By kattanna on 2/2/2012 10:55:21 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I agree... pure crap


it still has to be better then the yugo.. LOL

my sister got one when they came out all those years ago. man it was hilariously bad. i remember being with her in the car driving home from the dealer and getting up to 65mph it felt like the car was going to shake itself apart.


RE: Size isn't the problem...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/2/12, Rating: -1
RE: Size isn't the problem...
By Jeffk464 on 2/2/2012 12:07:11 PM , Rating: 3
If you are really looking for a small car the Ford Focus and then Mazda 3 are probably the two all around best on the market.


RE: Size isn't the problem...
By Samus on 2/2/2012 11:22:21 PM , Rating: 2
And ironically, they're the SAME price. You can get something closer to the size of the 500, like the Fiesta or Mazda 2, for thousands less than the 500, all while getting better fuel economy, practicality, performance, safety, resale, ride quality, equipment.....

I'm just going to leave it alone. The Fiat 500 is worth $10,000, not $20,000. It's a very simple, very small car with very few components. It shouldn't cost $20,000 for the same reason the Volt should cost $40,000.

They are just not good values. But at least the 500 has a certain 'style' to it, a trend a saw a lot of in LA a few weeks ago (tons of 500's out West) but the Volt is just a Cruze with a $20,000+ electronics package.


What were you expecting?
By Beenthere on 2/2/2012 1:00:40 PM , Rating: 1
No one with a clue ever believed the Fiat 500 would be a sales success in the U.S. Fiat's real goal is just rebadge crap Fiat models and call them Chrysler products.

Wait until customers need parts or service on their Fiat/AMC/Dodge/whatever they are calling it this week - model.




RE: What were you expecting?
By mellomonk on 2/2/2012 2:20:47 PM , Rating: 2
You sir have no idea about what you are talking about. As someone who has family currently employed for Jeep I am here to tell you, the marriage of Chrysler and Fiat has been awesome.

First there there will be no re-badging of Fiat products in the US. The new Dart is built on an Alfa Romeo platform but has had over 18 months of development in the US for American consumers. Only 1 other US product is coming that is based on existing Fiat tech, after that all products will be built on shared engineering platforms. In fact it looks like for the time being there will be much more heading the other way then here. Lancia has pretty much scrapped it's slow selling lineup and is selling re-badged Chrysler products to moderate success. The US made Pentastar V6 family will be THE V6 design for the entire Fiat family. Masarati will be building it's new Sport Crossover in Detroit. Jeep is selling through the Fiat dealer network and is seeing great sales growth.

But most of all despite still selling a largely legacy based product of Daimler's penny-pinching management and Cerberus's lack of interest, Chrysler is making money big time. Sales were up over 44% last month alone. Last year the company wiped out most of it's profit paying off over $2billion of remaining loans. The work with the Fiat engineering teams is going about 1000% better then even the brightest of days under Daimler. The best part is that CEO Marchionne is a real old school car guy so there is some real great products in the pipeline. He just has to get over the average American's biased and largely ignorant views Fiat, Italy, old Chrysler products, and cars in general. So far so good.

The 500 was brought here to give the Chrysler dealers something to sell in a world of $4 a gallon gas while the new stuff was in the pipeline. But then the marketing went south, gas got cheaper, and poor decisions such as making the dealers build Fiat showrooms and facilities were made. Sales went poorly and the head of FiatUSA was sacked. Given more models and time, maybe higher gas prices, Fiat could sell moderately well here. Time will tell.


RE: What were you expecting?
By Keeir on 2/2/2012 4:41:23 PM , Rating: 2
Fiat + Chrysler makes alot of sense... Fiat group has good A, B, and C market solutions. Chrysler has more D market, and SUV solutions.

But brand management will have to be very careful...

Dodge, Chrysler, Lancia, Fiat, and Alfa Romeo all produce C segment cars.

In the US market, Toyota has had success with Scion/Toyota/Lexus and GM seems to be turning a corner with Chevy/Buick(Opel)/Caddy/GMC... but its pretty clear that maintaining more than 2 different brands is hard. Ford can't even do Ford/Lincoln properly and Honda struggles with Honda/Acura.

I think the choice to make "Fiat" dealers was a large blunder (which is sad). Fiat doesn't have the product portfolio to really make a good case of reintroduction to the US market and a seperate dealer network...

Where would Fiat fit in the lineup?

Fiat/Dodge/Chrysler? Dodge/Fiat/Chrysler?

Maybe if they push Chrysler or Alfa Romeo upstream slightly they could do

Dodge/Alfa/Chrysler or Dodge/Chrysler/Alfa.

I'd bring the Alfa brand if any at all. A little tweaking to the options available and Alfa can be a credible entry into the Acura/Buick/Low End Lexus/Audi/Caddy entry point which Chrysler just won't be able to reach for a decade.


RE: What were you expecting?
By Beenthere on 2/2/2012 5:00:17 PM , Rating: 1
You're entitled to your opine as am I. I respectfully disagree with just about everything you have stated because I have been personally involved in the U.S. auto industry for over 25 years and I've seen this type of shell game before.

It's no surprise at all that U.S. consumers do not want a POS Fiat 500. Who in their right mind would?

Answer: Only Fanbois

I'll watch as Fiat takes all of Chrysler's technology to Urrup and then over the next ten years sells off one part of Chrysler after another as they dismantle the failed merger.

Think back a few years... This is a do over for those who didn't learn their lesson the first time. Tell those who lost their jobs, homes and lives how "awesome" this merger is now but won't be in 10 years.


RE: What were you expecting?
By Reclaimer77 on 2/2/2012 5:49:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's no surprise at all that U.S. consumers do not want a POS Fiat 500. Who in their right mind would?


Europeans lol. :P


RE: What were you expecting?
By Keeir on 2/2/2012 8:08:31 PM , Rating: 2
To be fair, European tax laws and road conditions are much different.

For example, in UK the price difference (TCO) between the Mini Cooper NA gets and the 500 NA gets is fairly significant (into 5,000+ range over the life of the car). Some European countries its even significantly greater.

I think its fairly truthful to say that most humans would prefer BMWs, Caddys, Porsches, etc depending on personal preference for driving experience. But sadly most people have to make value choices. Until the 500 creates a sufficient TCO advantage over its nearest compeditors here in the US, it will sell poorly. Doesn't mean the 500 hasn't created that TCO difference elsewhere.


As a FIAT fan,
By snorko on 2/2/2012 11:38:54 AM , Rating: 3

...here is my opinion.
FIAT messed up with over optimistic sales predictions. Many dealers weren’t open anywhere near on time in 2011.

I own one and have 23,000 miles on mine.

1)Reliability: 100% reliable. Solid, rattle free and flawless
2) Ride: It has short wheel base, so if you want to float down the road, forget it. Still, it is surprisingly smooth for such a small car
3) Handling: Very agile
4) Power. It has 104 HP, but is very light. So, while it is not fast from 0-60, it feels fast
5) Stability: I regularly drive 100 miles round trip in my daily commute (thus my 23,000 miles). I drive on the highway and in stop and go traffic. On the highway at 65 it is rock solid stable and quiet
6) Safety: You sit up high and feel like you are in a larger car. The car got a top safety rating in minicar crash tests conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. The NHTSA gave it 3 stars because of below average rear collision tests. As the car is really a 2+2, most of the time no one will be in the back seat anyway.
7) Fuel Economy: I have a manual and average 40 MPG with combined Highway/ City Driving
8) Fun to Drive: 9/10, IMO
9) Looks: That's for each person to decide! Most people love it.
10) Practicality: If you have to carry lots of cargo or more than two people on a regular basis, it may not be right for you. Otherwise it seats two very comfortably and the rear seats fold down for lots of cargo room.

So there you go. Again, what FIAT was in the USA 30 years ago is not what it is today. That would be like saying “I had a Ford Pinto in 1980 and it was junk, so I won’t buy a Fusion.” The USA version 500 should be judged on the record it is now building.




RE: As a FIAT fan,
By Jeffk464 on 2/2/2012 12:11:21 PM , Rating: 2
The problem with these subcompacts like this one, the smart car, mini cooper, is that they aren't getting significantly better mileage than much nicer cars like the ford focus or honda civic and they aren't any cheaper. So what is the selling point?


RE: As a FIAT fan,
By StanO360 on 2/2/2012 1:44:59 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly, what's the "Unique Selling Proposition". I have no reason to believe that Fiat is a better car than the similarly sized Ford, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai and even Kia.

Why would I spend more money for a tiny car, that in spite of the "cute" factor (so then your limited to teenage girls). I buy a tiny car for price, economy, I'm not darting around Medieval streets of Italy, but the mean freeways of Southern California.


RE: As a FIAT fan,
By Manch on 2/2/2012 2:40:36 PM , Rating: 1
They had near instant access to all of Chrysler's dealerships so there was no reason for them to have an issue getting them out.

I drove one, just for curiosity. It rattles, feels flimsy. Maybe the tester I drove was an early version but the build quality was lacking. I also heard the American version is inferior in build quality compared to the euro one. Ill have to go check one out and see.

As light as it it, its so underpowered I felt unsafe trying to merge on a highway. It may be fast according to your butt dyno, but reality shows its a complete turd in acceleration, and handling. As far as being safe, it may be "safe" compared to other cars in its class but being that most cars in the US are much much bigger, theres no way I would use one on a regular basis. I dont want to die. Your rationalization of the crash rating for the rear just sounds like your trying to justify your car payments! ;)

The price is one reason why I just dont like it. As many have stated you can get more car the same money, and can get the same for a lot less from another company.

Given time they may prove themselves to be a good brand. As of right now tho, I dont see much that impresses me. They havent turned Chrysler around like they promised, there small car technology is lacking in every measurement to their respective competitors. Ive seen some of the Chrysler/Fiat mashups theyre coming out with (dart) and makes me realize that Chryslers days are numbered. The 300/charger may be reskinned but its running on a tired platform thats way too heavy, tho I do like their engines, but that heavy chassis means they cannot compete with their rivals. They have managed a nice facelift of the RAM trucks but again, its on another tired chassis, and its not competing well against ford ^ Chevy. The Cherokee, Durango, and Wrangler are the only platforms they have right now that seem to be up to snuff. Im waiting to see what theyre going to do to the viper, but Im afraid theyll turn it into crap.

Im glad you like your car and as long as it works for you cool but for me I just dont see it as something Id get. If I were to buy a small car, Id probably get a souped up mini which puts me out of this class of cars anyways, or Id buy a shitbox that I can pay for in one paycheck and use the money saved on carpayment to make up for the lack of mpg. This car isnt a good fit for the US. It would be a good fit for Norway. Im averaging about 21mph driving around in the city. If iot wasnt so damn cold and frozen Id be ridin my harley


Well Durr
By Stiggalicious on 2/2/2012 10:39:20 AM , Rating: 2
Of course it's a flop. It would be a fantastic little car if it were priced at, say, $12,000. Driving both a 500 and a Mini, the Mini is much better, feels sportier, more substantial, and only costs a couple grand more. There's just no way I would want to save that money and buy the 500. If they released the Abarth for say $18,000, I'd buy that, but knowing how companies price sporty editions of cars, they'll probably bring in at $24 or 25k. At that price, I'd go with a Focus ST.




RE: Well Durr
By Stiggalicious on 2/2/2012 10:41:58 AM , Rating: 2
Edit: I forgot to do my reading, it's $22,700 for the Abarth. Still too pricey IMO, I'd prefer a Cooper S at a similar price.


RE: Well Durr
By mellomonk on 2/2/2012 1:43:16 PM , Rating: 2
Uhhh, Unless you haven't visited your Mini dealer lately, Cooper S usually sells for substantially more then the oft quoted base price. I cannot remember seeing less then $3000 worth of options on any on the lot. If the Abarth is actually available for around that price, it will be substantially cheaper.


Fake J-Lo
By btc909 on 2/2/2012 11:52:15 AM , Rating: 1
Don't forget to use the same underpowered engine in a larger heavier car. Oh and to drum up sales don't forget to put Fake J-Lo behind the wheel again.




RE: Fake J-Lo
By mellomonk on 2/2/2012 2:26:54 PM , Rating: 2
Underpowered is relative. You don't need 200hp when you are not lugging 2.5 tons around. At 101hp the little multi-air can get a 500 from zero to 60 in less then 10 seconds. Fine for highway merging and satisfying enough for most grown-ups.


500
By kuk on 2/2/2012 10:41:57 AM , Rating: 2
On the other hand, the 500 is selling above expectations in Brazil. It's positioned as a premium subcompact with a reasonable price tag (compared to it's peers), and there are waiting lists for 90 to 120 days. It comes from the same Mexican plant as those sold in the USA, so I could see Fiat preferring to send it southwards. That said, the tariff-less deal between Brazil and Mexico might get axed soon, and the 35% tax might cut its momentum here.




flop?
By Argon18 on 2/4/2012 6:50:18 PM , Rating: 2
it's funny, i never would have guessed just based on how many i see on the road. tons of fiat 500's here, they're everywhere. can't hardly go anywhere without seeing at least a few of them. must be a locality thing? btw "here" is washington, dc metro area. i have no idea how well (or not) they're selling elsewhere, but they're definitely selling well here.




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