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Software Federal Agents Target Game Pirates
Michael Hoffman (Blog) - August 2, 2007 1:52 AM
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ICE raids 32 locations in an attempt to take a bite out of cyber crime

Federal U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents raided 32 businesses and homes today, searching for game consoles that allow gamers to play pirated video games on  game consoles.  

The raids, part of Operation Tangled Web, took place in 16 states, including California, Illinois, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York and Texas, while ICE officials searched for mod chips and swap discs designed for the Sony PlayStation 2, Microsoft Xbox, Xbox 360 and Nintendo Wii.  Operation Tangled Web took more than a year of preparation and investigation.

The Entertainment Software Association estimates that video game piracy costs the game industry around $3 billion per year around the world - the estimate doesn't include Internet piracy.

“Microsoft applauds ICE for its effort to reduce piracy and protect the intellectual property of Microsoft and its industry partners. This is an important step in the continuing fight against piracy and the threat it presents to the global economy and consumers throughout the world," Microsoft said in an official statement.

Nintendo attributed a loss of more than $750 million due to piracy last year, said Jodi Daughtery, Nintendo of America anti-piracy senior director.

"Illicit devices like the ones targeted today are created with one purpose in mind, subverting copyright protections," said Julie Myers, assistant secretary of Homeland Security for ICE.  "These crimes cost legitimate businesses billions of dollars annually and facilitate multiple other layers of criminality, such as smuggling, software piracy and money laundering," she added.

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Waste of time
By Serifan on 8/2/2007 3:04:19 AM , Rating: 1
They are not going to ever stop piracy until everyone works together to stop it. Last month I was in Singapore and I went to a shopping center that was just pirate movies and games.




RE: Waste of time
By GaryJohnson on 8/2/2007 3:56:52 AM , Rating: 3
I believe the intention of these raids is not to stop piracy, but to punish and put a stop to the piracy activites of those specific people and/or groups targeted by the raid.


RE: Waste of time
By imaheadcase on 8/2/2007 4:10:41 AM , Rating: 5
Specific people in the homes they raided? Yah lets punish lacky's instead of stopping the people who make the chips. That makes perfect sense..

Then again anti-piracy laws are a joke anyways, they do a raid every few years and put out a press release saying they are fighting it. While the people who actually are the heart of the problem roll around in money, While joe-shmoe is in prison for years on using a modchip or downloading a game a few times. lol


RE: Waste of time
By GaryJohnson on 8/2/2007 4:27:10 AM , Rating: 2
What would you have the U.S. do? Invade Singapore (or any country that 'harbors' pirates) and replace its government for one that is more enthusiastic about enforcing U.S. policies?


RE: Waste of time
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 8/2/2007 6:21:28 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
What would you have the U.S. do? Invade Singapore (or any country that 'harbors' pirates) and replace its government for one that is more enthusiastic about enforcing U.S. policies?

Lobby for WTO denial!


RE: Waste of time
By Adonlude on 8/3/2007 12:32:27 PM , Rating: 2
A year spent setting up for this raid of 30 locations? Wow, good job guys, time well spent, lol.

Since when is it illegal to alter hardware that you have legally purchased anyway. If I buy an XBox I would think I could do whatever I want to it .


RE: Waste of time
By mindless1 on 8/2/2007 8:40:33 AM , Rating: 2
What I would have the US do is devote our tax-funded Federal agencies to matters that I feel are important to combat, not kids playing video games for free.


RE: Waste of time
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 9:08:31 AM , Rating: 3
Im sure you would. And how about all the tax money being paid by music artists, movie stars, video game makers, and the companies that employ and produce them? Are they not entitled to have their tax dollars go to protecting their products from thieves just because you do not want to pay for it or cant afford it? The government is supposed to work for EVERYONE, not just you.


RE: Waste of time
By Oregonian2 on 8/2/2007 1:23:18 PM , Rating: 2
Why not donate the money that WOULD have been spent fighting piracy to the RIAA, or better yet directly to artists and game companies. Seems like that they'd have more net bottom line benefit that way.

P.S. - Those arrested probably paid taxes too.


RE: Waste of time
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 1:31:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why not donate the money that WOULD have been spent fighting piracy to the RIAA, or better yet directly to artists and game companies. Seems like that they'd have more net bottom line benefit that way.


Its really sad when people here think they have the right to take things from someone because someone else can afford something better. This is not an issue with the RIAA or MPAA or whatever else organization is out there. People are stealing and not paying for things that need to be paid for...simple as that. There are no if's, and's, or but's about it. There is no defense about theft and copyright infringement. You are taking something that does not belong to you. If you do not want these people coming after you and do not want the government to be spending valuable tax dollars on it, then dont do break the law.

quote:
P.S. - Those arrested probably paid taxes too.


You're damn right they did. And a portion of their tax dollars went to the raids that got them arrested. They funded their own arrests, so good for them.


RE: Waste of time
By mindless1 on 8/2/2007 6:01:45 PM , Rating: 1
It's really sad when people here think they can take an oversimplified concept then twist it to apply to another scenario.

No, these things DON'T need to be paid for. The RIAA/etc are not "entitled" to anything except what the consumer is willing to pay and obviously the whole issue is that the consumer isn't willing to pay.

There are many ifs, ands, and buts. There is a defense, there is a reason, and there is no justification for the lies the (supposedly) effected industries are telling about their losses.

Here's an example. Someone shares a song on bittorrent. Generally the statis quo is to achieve a 1:1 up/download ratio. This means that the person downloading, uploaded it one time also. That is, at most, one digital download sale lost, about 70 cents in revenue to the (supposedly) effected party. Nevermind that it was never established that anyone was willing to buy anything.

You are not thinking very clearly with your assumption I must be infringing and then complaining about taxes. I DON'T download anything that the RIAA would have a problem with, and yet my tax dollars ARE paying for their special interests. You don't want to consider the truth though, just a self-serving argument instead of realizing that trying to cling to an outdated monopolistic distribution method isn't working and won't start working again no matter how much you incorrectly throw around the word "theif" or "steal" (which are both incorrect terms for a copyright infringement). Yes, under current law it is illegal. Plenty of things the RIAA are doing don't hold up well under the light of day either.

The remaining issue which you conveniently dodged was whether these pursuits of children playing free games is the BEST use of the resources, since there are not infinite resources available. Jaywalking is illegal too, do you propose we should treat all crimes of equal importance? Most people don't feel that way and most people, by definition constitute the majority which is supposed to decide how a democracy is managed.


RE: Waste of time
By mdogs444 on 8/2/07, Rating: 0
RE: Waste of time
By SmokeRngs on 8/3/2007 12:53:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
and companies are paying taxes too


No they aren't. Companies do not pay taxes. The people who purchase their products or services pay the taxes. This is called a hidden tax. Every penny of taxes a business remits to the government came out of your pocket. Increase the taxes a business has to pay and it will cause an increase of the price of the products or services. The cost is passed on to the consumer every time without exception.


RE: Waste of time
By bpurkapi on 8/2/2007 2:38:35 PM , Rating: 2
If the government is supposed to work for everyone why do they spend millions on this sting and nothing to help me go to college? or nothing to help me get health care? I had a book stolen from me, and the government didn't go searching for the perpetrator, and would laugh if I asked for their assistance in recovering it. I think you don't understand that the government only helps those who send checks to congress or go golfing with the president. In rare circumstances when the general population gets fed up or threatens action does any government do something for everyone.


RE: Waste of time
By mdogs444 on 8/2/07, Rating: 0
RE: Waste of time
By mindless1 on 8/2/2007 5:46:25 PM , Rating: 3
We already know it's quite the opposite of what you imply, copyright infringement cases are pitting the few companies against a far larger group of citizens. That far larger group of citizens is as close as it comes to "everyone" when there are two opposing camps.


RE: Waste of time
By Yogi on 8/2/2007 4:44:03 AM , Rating: 1
Are you sure you can find both pirated movies & games in the same shopping center in singapore? Where is that shopping center?


RE: Waste of time
By RW on 8/2/2007 6:24:42 AM , Rating: 2
Do they ever figure it out that only those who don't afford to buy original games, will play pirated copies ?

Since those who use pirated content don't actually have the money to buy it basically you cannot sell that content to those people since they don't have the money to buy it, so where is the loss in money that they estimate ?

Those who think that end of piracy will increase sales are totally morons.


RE: Waste of time
By enlil242 on 8/2/2007 7:07:06 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Do they ever figure it out that only those who don't afford to buy original games, will play pirated copies ?

Since those who use pirated content don't actually have the money to buy it basically you cannot sell that content to those people since they don't have the money to buy it, so where is the loss in money that they estimate ?

Those who think that end of piracy will increase sales are totally morons.


Maybe you should learn a skill and look for a job instead of playing video games ... Then, maybe, you can afford to buy games and movies and then I wouldn't have to pay as much for mine... Ever think about it in that sense, champ?


RE: Waste of time
By Drexial on 8/2/2007 7:25:18 AM , Rating: 2
what about someone making a pirated coppy makes you think if they bought an original copy they would make games cheaper?

the ipod is selling millions and they are still charging what they were in the beginning, even though production costs have been cut in half. they don't lower prices cause they know people will buy it. so even if tomorrow it changed an no one ever bought another pirated game, do you really think they would lower prices? hell no, businesses are an institution designed to make money.so if they can make more why change it?


RE: Waste of time
By Lightning III on 8/2/2007 8:27:22 AM , Rating: 2

oooh yeah because they really will really lower the price if there is no piracy, whose on the pipe now


RE: Waste of time
By mindless1 on 8/2/07, Rating: -1
RE: Waste of time
By mindless1 on 8/4/2007 4:03:58 AM , Rating: 1
Maybe you should just address the valid point made.


RE: Waste of time
By FITCamaro on 8/2/2007 7:07:29 AM , Rating: 2
While that can be true its not always. In high school and college, both private schools, kids at each who had plenty of money still pirated stuff.


RE: Waste of time
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 9:21:56 AM , Rating: 2
Its not only those who "cannot afford it"

Its also those who would rather spend their money on something else, because they've realized that the video game, music, movie, etc is just not that high of a priority. They would rather spend their money on something else, but still get the certain item for free.

If they cannot afford a video game, then they shouldn't have a console to play it, or even be worrying about games. Time to re-evalute their priorities, and if they cannot do that, then they deserve to get busted.


RE: Waste of time
By rcc on 8/2/2007 12:21:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Those who think that end of piracy will increase sales are totally morons.


Perhaps. And those that think it's ok, and that it doesn't hurt anyone, are moral deliquents.

Actually, it's a bit like welfare, without the government involvement, and survival issues. Some people are comfortable living off the efforts of others, and some aren't.

And no, that is not a slam at those that genuinely need assistance for a number of reasons. But nobody needs video games. If you can't afford it, do without.

The ability to do something does not confer the right to do it. Something that is becoming blurred in the computer age.


RE: Waste of time
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 9:06:43 AM , Rating: 1
I think just about everyone here at one time or another has "illegally" downloaded a song, movie, game, hacked a video game system, or something similar.

But come on people, lets get real here. IMHO, are there more pressing needs on this country besides video game hackers and music downloaders? Sure I do - the war overseas and dedicating manpower to the soldiers, the war on drugs and keeping kids of the streets, the war against child abuse, etc. But the point is this, if they dont try to get their hands on a little bit of everything, it will get even more out of control. I do not believe the authorities think they can fully stop or control music, movie, and video game piracy, but what they can do is put forth enough effort to make people think twice before committing to those actions. Many people complain by saying "is this what they are doing with our tax money?" - and rightfully so, but open your eyes. The people are who making these movies, music, video games, etc, and the companies that own them, are paying much more in taxes than almost all of us are. So yes, they are entitled to have some of that tax money go to protecting their investments from people who think it should be free because they cannot afford it, or simply would rather not waste money on it.

So do not go rambling on about the whole "i only do it because i cannot afford the prices of games" BS. If you cannot afford the games, you should not have a console, and thus should be doing something better with your time - like focusing on education to get a better paying job, getting a second job, working more. If you are going to complain about that part - then perhaps you need to re-evaluate your priorities in life. Video games, music, and movies are not the end all, be all. They are not a necessity to life. They are a "nice to have". If you cannot afford to have it, then guess what, you are shit out of luck.

I will not feel pity for people who get busted for piracy and complain about it. Do what normal people do - if they cannot afford something right now, save up for it and purchase it later. If they deem its too expensive to buy or not a necessity, then dont buy it. Just dont complain that you want something for free and no one will give it to you. Everyone wants a Cadillac for the price of a Chevy, but just because you cannot afford the Cadillac does not give you any right to steal it and complain that the authorities are looking for you.

Get a grip on life, its just that simple.


RE: Waste of time
By ussfletcher on 8/2/2007 9:33:20 AM , Rating: 2
Indeed,the 'losses' these companies post remind me of counting your chickens before they hatch. Chances are they would have never sold the game to these people to begin with. Therefore they aren't losses at all.


RE: Waste of time
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 9:40:15 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Chances are they would have never sold the game to these people to begin with. Therefore they aren't losses at all.


Thats the most ridiculous statement i've ever heard. If everyone thought like you, then we may as well just give up and toss out our economy right now.

Here is another example of how YOU must feel:
GM ships 10 2007 model year cars to a dealership. On january 1st 2008, 9 of them have sold and 1 is sitting on the lot. Just because it didnt sell, and is sitting on the lot, gives you the right to take it - because technically they aren't losing anything because it hasnt sold?

Idiot.


RE: Waste of time
By smitty3268 on 8/2/2007 10:38:23 AM , Rating: 2
That has to be one of the stupidest posts I've read today. I could go on about the difference between copyright infringement and stealing, but somehow I doubt you would listen anyway.


RE: Waste of time
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 10:42:09 AM , Rating: 2
The point is both are illegal and you are obtaining something that is not yours. Whether you are the one who infringed on its copyright, or you got it from someone else who did without paying for it (in turn you are now the thief instead of the copyright infringer), you are still doing something illegal.


RE: Waste of time
By smitty3268 on 8/2/2007 10:56:52 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, they're both illegal. But in one you're actually taking a physical loss. In the other situation you're merely losing a potential sale, which is a completely different situation and exactly what you tried to equate.


RE: Waste of time
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 11:00:06 AM , Rating: 2
I agree, and my analogy may have been a bit flawed, but it was just what popped out on the top of my mind.

My main point i was trying to stress to him, is exactly what you said - its always a potential sale. It may not be a physical loss per-say, but it also could be. That person who got it for free - may or may not - buy it if it wasn't available for free.

Either way, it is not acceptable to make the copy for others to download, and its not acceptable to download. Now, i cannot tell you not to do it - but i can say that those people should not complain and say the government is waisting their tax money on searching for these thieves, when in turn they are part of the problem.


RE: Waste of time
By smitty3268 on 8/2/2007 11:28:23 AM , Rating: 2
I don't find that unreasonable. The OP had a point though. The content providers have many good reasons to try to make their losses to piracy seem as large as possible, and it would be foolish to take them directly at their word. They're biased. There have even been some studies that have shown that music piracy ended up helping overall sales by introducing people to new artists that they weren't familiar with before. OTOH, there are also plenty of studies showing the opposite.

When I was a student, I pirated some movies and music and I know that I never would have spent actual money on most of it. But it's hard for even me to judge exactly how much I would have bought - if I didn't have any would I have been more likely to spend money even on stuff I wasn't sure I would like? I also ended up buying a few DVDs later on that I had never even heard of before. All together, I think I probably would have spent a little more money if I hadn't pirated anything but it certainly wouldn't have been a lot. (After school, I stopped so please no you're evil speeched or anything)


RE: Waste of time
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 11:33:13 AM , Rating: 2
Hey, as i said in my post that started this, i think we've all done it at one time or another - and im not here to judge what each individual user wants to do, or wants to try to get away with. I've done it too, but I dont condone it. And i know that if i got caught from doing it along time ago, well then i had it coming to me.

But what is so funny that these people dont realize is that they are complaining that our tax dollars should go for something else. But since they are part of the problem, they are actually helping fund the government in their search - and in turn, could end up funding the raid that bust themselves.


RE: Waste of time
By bpurkapi on 8/2/2007 2:49:31 PM , Rating: 2
Your logic is flawed, the production of cars costs materials for each car, the production of software costs materials for one edition, which is then duplicated. So when someone steals software they are not stealing an entirely newly manufactured item, but merely a copy. GM would be screwed, but a software company makes so much profit because they can create product that can be replicated for an increasingly smaller cost. This is why pirated software does not constitute a loss(the only loss is the fact that the company has to dedicate more time and labor for anti-piracy measures), but an opportunity lost to make profit.


RE: Waste of time
By rcc on 8/2/2007 4:35:36 PM , Rating: 2
Why is it that so many people today think profit is a bad word.

Perhaps I can put this terms that our pirate friends can appreciate. I doubt it, but one can try.

Software companies spend money to develop the games that we like to play, and a few we don't. The more money they make, and the more successfull they are, the more programmers they hire and the more new games we get to enjoy. So, you say, but if I copy it, no one really loses anything. I say that without the theft of piracy I would be enjoying more, better, games. So, yes, piracy limits (to some degree, 1 copy, or 1 million) the profits of the software companies (evil profit mongering wretches that they are), but it also puts limitation on the future enjoyment of gamers everywhere.


RE: Waste of time
By rcc on 8/2/2007 5:06:34 PM , Rating: 2
And hey, lets mention that a fair number of those freeloaders are also going to take up resources on the companies website and forums. They are going to jump up and down and want to be heard regarding a product for which they are not even a customer. Thereby diluting the inputs of actual paying customers, and reducing their enjoyment.

Now, I realize that all those freeloading pirate wannabees don't really care about any of this, regardless of the drivel they spew, and justifications they conjure, they just want to steal software and play games for free. But it made me feel better, and thats all that really counts, right?

To all those viewers that just wanted to discuss the article, I apologize. But sometimes this crap really irks me.


RE: Waste of time
By Alexstarfire on 8/2/2007 1:31:27 PM , Rating: 1
Wow, you actually think they pay THAT much more in taxes? I know you are on the pipe. Big companies get way more tax breaks than the vast majority of people ever will. I only feel pity for those who get caught because 95% of the people they catch aren't even the ones distributing the stuff. Who cares if some grandma or 6 year old downloaded ONE song. What about the thousands, in not hundreds of thousands, or people who have like 100+ GB of downloaded music. I was at a LAN party 2 weeks ago and like 5-6 people there had over 100 GB worth of music. You can't tell me they actually paid for all of that.

The fact of the matter is, big companies complain about "losing" money when if fact it's money they would probably never have gotten anyways. They also keep returning record profits, except for Sony and Microsoft on there consoles but those aren't games. All they do is spend millions of dollars producing crap, not all but most, and then millions more trying to come up with better copy protection that gets defeated 2 days after it's released. If they really cared about piracy THAT much they'd all do Direct2Drive and skip making the media all together. They'd also lower the god damn prices so that people wouldn't be like "Why pay $50 for this crap when I can get it for free?" I don't see why I should pay $50 for a game that lasts only a couple hours, not all games are like this though. Half the games out now are based off of another, older game.

Also, who says that just because you have a modified console you are playing pirated games. They say that these consoles are designed for only one purpose. Well prove it then. Who says that Joe Somebody can't be playing games that he backed up? I know plenty of people that have lost games because they got too scratched. Hell, I've lost a couple games, and a few CD-keys, because I've used them too much. What does the game company say, PAY FOR IT AGAIN BITCH. I shouldn't have to pay for it again if I already legally own it.

I'd like t know how many people actually play pirated games these days anyways. They should have a national US poll on this. With anonymous voting of course.


RE: Waste of time
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 1:48:05 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Wow, you actually think they pay THAT much more in taxes? I know you are on the pipe. Big companies get way more tax breaks than the vast majority of people ever will.


You had best think again Pirate Boy. Sure companies get tax breaks, but they also employ and pay the people who fuel this economy and society. You have no right to mess that up because your job sucks and can't afford to buy something that is not a NECESSITY.

quote:
I only feel pity for those who get caught because 95% of the people they catch aren't even the ones distributing the stuff.


Distributor or accomplice - either way they know what they are doing is illegal. The laws are public for a reason, and if you aren't sure of them, then head on over to your local library and read them. Perhaps it will put some common sense into your brain as opposed to your 8 hrs stuck it from of counter strike.

quote:
The fact of the matter is, big companies complain about "losing" money when if fact it's money they would probably never have gotten anyways. They also keep returning record profits, except for Sony and Microsoft on there consoles but those aren't games.


And why is it that you think you have the right to take something because they are successful and making money? Go to school, get a better education, and get a better job if you need more money. They are a company, and are there to make money. They dont make you buy their products.

quote:
They'd also lower the god damn prices so that people wouldn't be like "Why pay $50 for this crap when I can get it for free?" I don't see why I should pay $50 for a game that lasts only a couple hours, not all games are like this though.


Who is MAKING you buy that game? Who is MAKING you spend $50? Who is MAKING you buy that music CD? I dont see a gun to your head. These are extra curricular activities and are nice to haves. They are not NEEDS to keep you alive. You want to spend less money? Then wait till the game has been out a while and buy it cheaper - or hell, get a new hobby and read a book or two - perhaps on US Government and Economics.

quote:
Also, who says that just because you have a modified console you are playing pirated games. They say that these consoles are designed for only one purpose. Well prove it then. Who says that Joe Somebody can't be playing games that he backed up? I know plenty of people that have lost games because they got too scratched. Hell, I've lost a couple games, and a few CD-keys, because I've used them too much. What does the game company say, PAY FOR IT AGAIN BITCH. I shouldn't have to pay for it again if I already legally own it.


I do agree with this part though. if you BOUGHT the item, then should be able to do with as you please as long as it STAYS FOR ONLY YOUR USE.

But you cannot count the fact that people do not take care of their stuff or lose them as a fault of the manufacturer. With exception of the new XBOX 360 problem of scratching discs, if you scratched a game somewhere, you probably did by accident. Not their problem to reimburse you for it. If you lost a game, its not their problem. Thats like saying i lost my ipod, apple owes me a new one.

And just for the record, im not just talking about video games. Im also referring to movies, pc games, music cd's, etc. Whether you truly see it or not, it does effect all of us in one way or another. It drives up prices for the people who actually DO honestly buy the game/music/movie. It puts our tax dollars to use for something that shouldnt need to be because our own citizens are screwing over each other and the companies that they own.

Some people need to quit being so selfish and think that they DESERVE to have everything. It is a benefit of hard work, being in the right place at the right time, or inheritance. Nothing comes completely free - besides everyones right to a honest life and an honest living. If you think you're being cheated because you cannot afford to buy something that provides liesure for you, then America is not the right place for you.


RE: Waste of time
By rcc on 8/2/2007 1:58:22 PM , Rating: 2
Yup, cough it up, fork it over. Pay up. You lost it, you screwed it up, you pay for it. TANSTAAFL.

I suppose you whine to the manufacturer of your toaster when it breaks because you dropped it, eh? Now I'm mostly in favor of being able to make backup copies of media, however, that option gets ruined because our morally deliquent population has to make an extra (just for a friend), etc.

Chances are if you registered the game/cd, they only charged you for a replacement disk anyway.


RE: Waste of time
By Alexstarfire on 8/2/2007 11:44:32 PM , Rating: 2
Your toaster and a game/movie/music isn't the same. With a toaster it's your physical property and you can do whatever the hell you want with it. With your game/movie/music file are you are legally allowed to do is play it, except you can rip music files for the time being. I'm not allowed to copy a game, modify it (and I mean core components, not just features of the game like they use for mods), hack it, etc. Also, on this game/movie/music you are paying for the right to use it. If I paid for the right to use it then why does it matter how many copies I have of it. I shouldn't have to be charged for the replacement disc if I never actually owned what was on the disc to begin with. The disc is only the medium on which to get what you paid for.

mdogs444, I think you skipped over a ton of stuff I said. Of course we don't have the right to screw anything up, but they can't prove that we are screwing anything up by doing what we are doing. Obviously pirating is a bad thing, but they are going about it in the wrong way. I said that they are turning record profits. If pirating is such a bad thing, how can they being turning in record profits? Pirating has increased, not decreased, in the past few years.

I never said anyone has the right to take anything. I'm not trying to justify pirating over here, merely explaining why it occurs. I also never said that anyone was making you buy the game. I, for one, am getting a better education (in college atm), so that I can afford the things I want. You wouldn't even believe how little money I spend on myself every month, it wouldn't even be $100, probably not even $50. I don't have the luxury of having mounds of money, though neither do most people.

Pirating in no way increases the price of what we buy. It's debatable but that's what I believe. As someone else posted earlier, "if we all just stopped pirating today, do you think they would lower the prices of games?" Of course they wouldn't, they are too greedy. I know that they are business and are in it to make money, but get this. THEY ARE MAKING MONEY, tons of it in fact. If they'd stop rushing games and making them so damn expensive I bet you more people, at least in the US and Europe, would actually buy them. These companies just pour money into things that just don't make any sense, copy protection being very high on the list.


RE: Waste of time
By rcc on 8/3/2007 1:49:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Also, on this game/movie/music you are paying for the right to use it. If I paid for the right to use it then why does it matter how many copies I have of it. I shouldn't have to be charged for the replacement disc if I never actually owned what was on the disc to begin with.


You have no right to use it. You have a license that enables you to use it in accordance with the licensing agreement. If you don't like the agreement, don't buy it. The physical media you bought, you can do anything you please with, except copy it. Use it for a coaster, throw it for the dog to catch, no body cares; but don't expect anyone to replace something you damaged, for free.

After all, if you rent a car from Hertz and trash it, you or your insurance, will pay for it. You didn't own it, but you broke it. Suck it up, take responsibility for your actions, and get on with life.


RE: Waste of time
By salt636 on 8/6/2007 9:48:28 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Last month I was in Singapore and I went to a shopping center that was just pirate movies and games.


Hey Serifan,
Here's a question that's prolly not related to what the rest are saying, but pray tell, which shopping centre in Singapore did you go to?

I'm not saying that piracy does not exist in Singapore, but a whole shopping centre that is

"just pirate movies and games"

is a pretty big statement to make, no?


Get your priorities straight
By Jaramin on 8/2/2007 4:08:28 AM , Rating: 2
A police raid into some average joe's living room to get his modded system? Talk about a waste of public funds. Trading cops for mercenaries? No thank you.




RE: Get your priorities straight
By vtohthree on 8/2/2007 5:25:52 AM , Rating: 2
I agree with ya. I mean it's great and all but I much rather they focus the funds and efforts towards something else.

There's still hordes of kids out there that sell drugs on the street, maybe we need a little more TLC there.


RE: Get your priorities straight
By Bluestealth on 8/2/2007 7:06:19 AM , Rating: 2
That, or rethink the war on drugs.
However I don't think that's likely to happen.
So, who is ready for the war on piracy?

As long as government exists to protect government itself and big business, it is not a government for the people.

Is it time for a revolution yet?, no.
Are we going to reach that point eventually if things don't change, yes .

The amount of control "our" government wants over our lives at the moment is getting to the point of being, unacceptable.

We don't like terrorism... fine, we like work or more importantly money... understandable, we like to "feel" our homes are safe... good, but none of this is a reason to accept tyranny.


RE: Get your priorities straight
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 10:10:37 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
As long as government exists to protect government itself and big business, it is not a government for the people.


A fair and equal government covers all entities who pay taxes. These companies pay more tax money in 1 year than you and I will our entire lives. I think that more than entitles them to government protection of their products - because they are employing our citizens, and providing products which help fuel our economy. I think that directly effects what is better for "the people".


RE: Get your priorities straight
By Bluestealth on 8/2/2007 11:31:23 AM , Rating: 2
Very good statement, however... I believe that consumer rights have been eroded for years. The balance belongs somewhere in the middle... laws should not work to only protect corporations.


RE: Get your priorities straight
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 11:45:48 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed - but our own citizens are part of the problem, which makes this such a large issue. Our own citizens are stealing from our own corporations - thus making the government step in. The government has to side with the corporations - not only because of how much tax dollars they contribute, but also because its just the right thing to do...whether you and i agree on that or not.

Whats funny is that the people who complain about the government searching for them because they are just the "downloader" are also the ones who are helping the corporations fund the raids that are looking for the "downloaders". haha.


RE: Get your priorities straight
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 10:06:46 AM , Rating: 2
You fail to see the big picture. The government does NOT just work for Jaramin.

Public funds come from where? Tax Dollars.

Tax Dollars are paid by whom? Individuals & Corporations.

What are some examples of Corporations that pay Tax Dollars? Microsoft, Sony, movie studios, music artists, video game companies. Need i go on?

EVERY tax payer is entitled to government protection because the government works for who? Thats right, EVERYONE - including these corporations who want their products to stop being stolen.

These companies - for example Microsoft - pay more in tax dollars in 1 year alone, then you will for the rest of your entire life. That does not give them the right for government protection of their products?

You need to start looking at the bigger picture and realize that the economy, fair government, and those companies who employ our citizens to allow them to earn a honest living come way before what you feel is your right to steal products that help fuel our economy.


RE: Get your priorities straight
By Spuke on 8/2/2007 1:14:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You need to start looking at the bigger picture and realize that the economy, fair government, and those companies who employ our citizens to allow them to earn a honest living come way before what you feel is your right to steal products that help fuel our economy.
You also need to look at that same picture and realize that without "employees" every corporation WILL fail. Do you think the CEO is going to program that machine to cut a door out of a chunk of metal? Do you think the CIO is going to upgrade the thousands of computers in the company all by himself? I didn't think so.

We wash each others backs here in the U.S. Corporations need employees to create and distribute their products (as well as purchase their products) and employees need corporations to provide incomes so we can ALL enjoy a good life. We support each other here.


RE: Get your priorities straight
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 1:20:52 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Which is why it doesnt give anyone the right to steal the products - whether it be music, movies, games, etc. If you steal it, then potential profits decrease, thus eliminating the need for as many employees. Therefore, you steal, you cost someone their jobs.

So im not exactly sure what you are contradicting me about. Because by your argument it appears you should be against the copyright infringements and illegal downloaders/copiers.


RE: Get your priorities straight
By Spuke on 8/2/2007 7:28:28 PM , Rating: 2
I didn't find you contradicting. I just wanted to point out that there are two sides of the street. Some seem to defend only the corporation. I'm not necessarily against the illegal downloaders. Yes, they break the law but so do I when I drive over the speed limit. Laws are not equal in the sense that speeding equals murder but the RIAA and the like to paint copyright infringement to be as evil as murder. A corporation losing potential profits is just not a great evil to me. IMO, it's not even on the evil radar screen.

From a business owners point of view, pirating is part of the cost of doing business. Pirating isn't going anywhere and can't be stopped so I would just "budget" some fighting the pirates money and call it a day. Not whine in every internet blog or news article about how I'm potentially losing billions of dollars and how the pirates are the Great Satan of the software industry. No one buys it. Just suck it up and be happy in the billions of dollars of profits you do have.


RE: Get your priorities straight
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 7:31:12 PM , Rating: 2
While that may be easy for us to say about just taking your losses and be happy its a bit different when you have to tell that to the shareholders of the companies who should/could be making much more money.


By mindless1 on 8/4/2007 3:55:52 AM , Rating: 2
Nope, you'd have to be an idiot to think a good business strategy to pitch to shareholders was to alienate the customers.


By mindless1 on 8/4/2007 4:06:28 AM , Rating: 2
No shareholders think alienating the customer is a good idea. You are just wrong and your lies about affiliations are obvious. Biased trollism is the worst kind. Crawl back under the rock you came forth from.


By SmokeRngs on 8/3/2007 1:06:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Tax Dollars are paid by whom? Individuals & Corporations.


Since you bring it up again and again, I will correct you again. You are wrong. Businesses do not pay taxes.

quote:
What are some examples of Corporations that pay Tax Dollars? Microsoft, Sony, movie studios, video game companies. Need i go on?


You can keep going on all you want; it won't matter. Not a single entity in there pays taxes. Again, they remit money which is paid by the consumer.

Businesses do not sacrifice profit to pay taxes. The cost is always passed on to the consumer. This is undeniable. The consumer is the taxpayer.

I do not have a problem with profit. If Bill Gates can find a way to legally double or triple Microsoft's profits in six months making himself even richer, I want him to go for it. I may not like what he does to gain that profit but as long as it complies with the laws of this country, I'm not going to complain about the profit. I may attack the product or service that changes things, but I won't attack the profits he made.


Kind of a misleading article...
By sadffffff on 8/2/2007 5:58:28 AM , Rating: 3
This article is written leaving out some key sentences. If you go read the Washington post article it look like this was based off and linked in this one, it looks like they raided the homes of people who were importing the chips for selling and installing into consoles for selling within the US. This is quite a bit different than invading the home of Joe User and taking his chipped ps2. I can see them raiding for this, going after (re)distributors, not the users (hint hint- RIAA).




RE: Kind of a misleading article...
By FITCamaro on 8/2/2007 7:10:11 AM , Rating: 2
I got that just from reading this article. Mostly because I know the government doesn't go after the buyer of something illegal. They go after the seller.

Unless its something like kiddie porn.


By SmokeRngs on 8/3/2007 1:46:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Mostly because I know the government doesn't go after the buyer of something illegal.


I would disagree. First of all, this is the government we're talking about. As an entity, the government is stupid and slow. I'm never surprised about the idiotic things it can and will do in the future.

Secondly, many times government and law enforcement agencies do go after the buyer since it's usually safer. This is in regards to the safety of the agents and the lack of ability of the buyers to fight prosecution compared to the suppliers. Also, getting information and evidence from the buyers can be an important step in prosecuting the suppliers.

Finally, as someone else already mentioned, government agencies like to go after an easy and easily visible target for the exposure. It's meant as a signal to the public that the government cares and is doing something about the problem.

I'm not saying this is the case concerning this incident. I am just pointing out what has happened before and what will happen again.


RE: Kind of a misleading article...
By enlil242 on 8/2/2007 7:10:50 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly... Of course I thought that from the get-go. You do not work a year-long investigation just to raid some kids' bedrooms...


By sadffffff on 8/2/2007 8:11:24 AM , Rating: 2
unfortunatly, from the looks of all the other comments here, a lot of people seem to think theyre invading people's homes to take their modded console... and i think the article does give that impression if you dont think about how little sense that makes...


RE: Kind of a misleading article...
By NotAok on 8/2/2007 9:23:52 AM , Rating: 2
I'm fine with them going after the creators and distributors of chips and stuff, but to go after the users is retarded. Like when an album leaks, it's ridiculous to go after the people downloading it. They're not the reason it got leaked in the first place, authorities should be targeting the radio stations, music mags, etc. who get advanced copies... they're the problem, not the people downloading it.


RE: Kind of a misleading article...
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 9:34:52 AM , Rating: 2
You dont think they would want to go after who leaked it as well? Open your eyes. They may not know who specifically leaked it, but they can definately find out who is currently stealing it. Whether we think its right or not, or should be a high priority, then point is simple: Everyone deserves the right to make a living, and if you are taking actions than prohibit that person from making an honest living, then you sir are in the wrong.

No one is forcing you to download it illegaly. You know its illegal, and if you do it, you run the risk. The people who make these products pay taxes just like we do, and have the right for government protection just like we do.

The people who leak it are the instigators of the problem no doubt, but anyone who downloads it is an accomplice and contributor.


RE: Kind of a misleading article...
By NotAok on 8/2/07, Rating: 0
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 10:45:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
but it's like stumbling across a $20 bill in a parking lot


Thats the most ridiculous analogy ive ever heard. Its not even close to the same thing.

quote:
Why wait for a movie, game, or music album to come out in stores when it'll leak sometimes months in advance.


Im not telling you not to do it, im just telling you not to complain that authorities are cracking down on you people who do it. You have rights, and so do the companies/artists who produce the products.


By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 10:45:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
but it's like stumbling across a $20 bill in a parking lot


Thats the most ridiculous analogy ive ever heard. Its not even close to the same thing.

quote:
Why wait for a movie, game, or music album to come out in stores when it'll leak sometimes months in advance.


Im not telling you not to do it, im just telling you not to complain that authorities are cracking down on you people who do it. You have rights, and so do the companies/artists who produce the products.


RE: Kind of a misleading article...
By FITCamaro on 8/2/2007 10:14:56 AM , Rating: 2
So shut up. Because they're not going after the users. Only the RIAA and MPAA are that stupid.

The government does it the smart way. Go after the source. The RIAA and MPAA instead just try to promote a campaign of fear. To try to make people afraid of downloading things. They haven't realized yet that that only creates an atmosphere of animosity against them, and encourages more people to do it just to spite them.


By SmokeRngs on 8/3/2007 1:53:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because they're not going after the users. Only the RIAA and MPAA are that stupid.


To a certain extent, you are incorrect. To "fix" a problem you have to get rid of the demand. Once the demand is gone, the supply dries up as well. You can fight the suppliers all you want but if the demand remains, there will be profit in supplying the demand despite the risks. Look at the "war on drugs" for the perfect example of this. As long as there is a demand for drugs, there will always be drugs.

In the case of the RIAA and MPAA, they are correct in trying to stop or at least slow down the demand. Their methods to do so, however, are the problem. I have no love for either organization and would love to see both collapse under the weight of their own stupidity, but their attempt to reduce the demand to slow down or stop piracy is correct.


Is Modding Illegal?
By kyleb2112 on 8/2/2007 7:41:59 AM , Rating: 2
"...searching for game consoles that allow gamers to play pirated video games on game consoles"

Aren't they really after the illegal software on the consoles? This makes it sound like modding in itself is illegal.




RE: Is Modding Illegal?
By Moishe on 8/2/2007 7:45:58 AM , Rating: 2
I bet it will be officially illegal in the future (n the U.S.)
Drive away innovation by preventing people from changing something they own.

Our politicians and others in power are extremely shortsighted.


RE: Is Modding Illegal?
By mindless1 on 8/2/2007 8:45:31 AM , Rating: 2
NO, what they're really after is pacifying the deep pockets that have political influence (same story different day).


RE: Is Modding Illegal?
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 9:29:03 AM , Rating: 2
Not quite my friend. Its not just technically "influence". You need to look at the bigger picture.

These corporations (Microsoft, Intel, IBM, etc), music artist, movie studios, video game makers, etc all pay much more in tax dollars than we do. In fact, that single music artist who just grossed $200 million this year will probably pay more in tax dollars this year alone, then I will my entire life.

You don't think that their tax dollars merit them to have government protection just like we do? The government is supposed to work for EVERYONE, not just what is in your best or my best interest. These people and companies have a right to create & sell their products, make money from their products, and in turn allows them to employ people as well. Its called economics. No one is forcing us to buy these products, therefore if you cannot afford, then don't buy it. But if you steal it, and get caught, then you should be punished by law, and the companies behind these products have every right to make sure that happens.


RE: Is Modding Illegal?
By mindless1 on 8/2/2007 6:15:25 PM , Rating: 2
No they don't pay more, you're trying to contrast them to one individual instead of everyone!

Further, what nonsense about "these corporations", as we are talking about specifics not joe consumer versus some group of all large corporations.

No, I do not think their tax dollars entitle them to divert resources towards their special interests until these children playing free games become one of the larger problems facing us.

You throw out the word economics but then deliberately ignore that the consumer wasn't willing to pay.

No they don't have every right to make sure anything at all happens, just as you have no right to make sure someone driving down the street 2 MPH over the speed limit is ticketed. If you feel the street needs policed more you might voice your opinion on this but it is still up to the discretion of the police to decide whether 2 MPH is enough of a concern to pull officers away from more important details. Likewise with kids playing free video games, this is obviously not a large problem in our society and special interests are at play.


RE: Is Modding Illegal?
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 6:22:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You throw out the word economics but then deliberately ignore that the consumer wasn't willing to pay.


If the problem was that the consumer just wasn't willing to pay, then prices would come down to where people would buy them. The problem is that YOU (and the pirates) dont want to pay and think you are entitled to it. If you cannot afford to buy it, then you should not own it, plain and simple. You do not need that video game to survive, nor that Usher song, nor the Armageddon movie.

There are obviously enough people in the world - special interest or not - that think this is a problem and needs to be addressed. Just because you are not one of them does not mean its wrong and unjust.

I think your handle here just about says what you are.


RE: Is Modding Illegal?
By mindless1 on 8/4/2007 3:52:57 AM , Rating: 2
Wrong, that's the criminal affiliations we're dealing with.

My handle was designed to give people with no valid argument an excuse to bow-out, as you have done which pretty much proves you have no valid argument.


RE: Is Modding Illegal?
By FITCamaro on 8/2/2007 10:19:01 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah...and like...the man is trying to keep us down man....so lets all go to this righteous music festival....and like....sing songs about the man keeping us down....because that'll make them see we're right.....and the world will be a better place.....


RE: Is Modding Illegal?
By glitchc on 8/2/2007 9:19:20 AM , Rating: 2
The act of modding a console is illegal. Read the license agreement of your latest and greatest console, whatever that may be, and you will see that is true.


RE: Is Modding Illegal?
By Flunk on 8/2/2007 10:05:56 AM , Rating: 2
If you live in the US there is absolutely no grey area in this matter either. The Digital Millenium copyright laws outline this as specifically illegal. Something about circumventing copyright protection schemes I don't remember the exact wording.


RE: Is Modding Illegal?
By darkpaw on 8/2/2007 9:26:15 AM , Rating: 2
Mod-chips circumvent copy right protections which is illegal under the DCMA. I definately don't like piracy, but I still think that law is crap since it doesn't even allow you to make backup copies.


I remember when...
By blwest on 8/2/2007 1:59:13 PM , Rating: 2
-Nobody thought twice about giving someone a copy of software
-Nobody knew what an mp3 was and those who did traded them
-I heard an mp3 I didn't have the CD for, then bought the CD, then went to their concert, then bought a $40 t-shirt, drank beer...
-The internet wasn't readily available to the general public
-The internet wasn't full of idiots (which is why phishing works and why I'm continuously told my "MEMBER" isn't large enough.

The difference between right and wrong is only what society deems is right and wrong. In the early 90's, this wasn't against the law/wrong/a shame. Now, marketing gimmicks from RIAA and other agencies have lobbied and made laws making the average joe a criminal.

I think trying to sell someone illegal drugs (drugs without an RX) they don't need is wrong. Every one of these prescription drug commercials is wrong. (hell they even have a drug now that causes dirrerah, constipation, nosebleeds, and can lead to death for people who's legs get tense, they even made up some syndrome name for it)

All these agencies are doing is protecting their stock price. If they have an excuse for poor sales, then their stock suffers.

What we've learned from all this is that the asking price for CD's/DVD's/Video games are too high for the quality. The market responds by not buying the media. Some people still want to listen to the garbage but the price is too high, so they download it.

Quit playing their game, especially the advocates screaming "it's wrong"




RE: I remember when...
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 2:07:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What we've learned from all this is that the asking price for CD's/DVD's/Video games are too high for the quality. The market responds by not buying the media. Some people still want to listen to the garbage but the price is too high, so they download it.


Wrong. If you believe that the price is too high, then dont buy the damn thing. If it is not selling, then the price will decrease due to the laws of Supply & Demand. If everyone is stealing it, then it just goes to prove than the demand is high and the supply is high. Something has to give, and guess what - its going to be the consumer because you are not playing legally.


RE: I remember when...
By sscilli on 8/2/2007 2:38:18 PM , Rating: 2
It's not going to be the consumer that caves. What needs to happen is for these companies to stop resisting and offer their content online in a way that is not overly restrictive and intrusive. The dollar amounts mentioned in this article were not including internet piracy, but where do you think all those people with modchips and swap discs are getting their game copies? By the way, modchips can be used for things other than piracy. Homebrew can be really great, my original xbox is now my media center. I don't even play games on it anymore, but it is great for my music and movies. I'd like to see less federal involvement and more wiliness to change on the entertainment industries part.


RE: I remember when...
By mindless1 on 8/2/2007 6:21:02 PM , Rating: 2
Are you trying to be wrong on purpose? You wrote that if the price is too high don't buy it but that is exactly what is happening already. You have no answer nor insight on this if you think we're waiting around to be instructed to do what we've already chosen to do.

No the price doesn't go down based on supply and demand, when there is price fixing. You want badly to ignore every kind of truth about this whole thread and only spin generic lies. Shame on you but I have to wonder did you think you were fooling anyone?

When "something" has to give it is NOT THE CONSUMER. The consumer is the one in the position of power in a free market because it is THEY who have the money.

Which special interest group do you work for anyway?


RE: I remember when...
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 6:25:50 PM , Rating: 2
I dont work for any, in fact i work for a non profit childrens hospital system.

I just dont see why you all think that someone is pointing a gun to your head telling you that you have to have this product, and since you do not feel thats its worth 10, 20, or 50 dollars, that you should be entitled to have it for free until the price is where you want it to be.


RE: I remember when...
By mindless1 on 8/4/2007 3:42:56 AM , Rating: 2
I just caught you in a lie. You should be doubly ashamed, not only for denying affiliations buy also to make up fiction like a childrens hospital system. That's as low as it gets, I hope you change your ways.


RE: I remember when...
By mdogs444 on 8/4/2007 12:35:27 PM , Rating: 2
Well unfortunately for you its not a lie. I really do work in IT and applications development for a childrens hospital system in columbus, oh. Go ahead and look it up. I am a computer systems analyst there. In no way am i affiliated with any kind of special interest party. In fact, im a 27 year old college graduate with a double major in technology enginnering and business management. In no way do i have any entitlement to prove my existance to you.

Its not my fault that you have no life and sit around to play video games all day. Its also not my fault that feel the world is against you because your broke ass cannot afford to purchase video games, music, movies, and live an honest life. The world does not revolve around you.

Companies have the right to price their products however they want. If you dont want to buy it, then dont buy it. You are not helping to solve the problem, you are in turn, contributing to make the problem worse for the rest of the people who do actually purchase the products.

You have no merit in any of your arguments. All you do is throw out sweeping statements that have no proof and would not hold up in a court of law. If you feel so strongly against these products and services, then you should go about your argument by a legal way and make your voice heard, as opposed to being verbally abusive on public forums. You really do need to get out a bit more, get laid, get a job, read a book...do something. Way too much free time for you.

You sound like a 20 something gamer who is upset that mommy will not buy video games for you. You probably work at small retail store for 8 dollars an hour and are upset that games cost as much as your weekly pay. get a life loser.


RE: I remember when...
By mindless1 on 8/5/2007 1:59:33 AM , Rating: 2
If ONLY I were 20 again! PS- I don't even own a gaming console!

Maybe you are, that struggling 20-something who can't see above his own ego to recognize what benefits the consumers and free market.

Unfortunately for you, the majority disagrees and in THIS society, our laws are premised by being supported by the majority. So no matter what you think, it is only a matter of time until reality dismisses your delusions.


RE: I remember when...
By mdogs444 on 8/2/2007 6:29:08 PM , Rating: 2
and on that note, you act like people only download it because the price is high. cmon man, get real. people download it and get it for free BECAUSE THEY CAN. They dont do it because they cannot afford it, or mommy wont buy it, or they have some grudge against the RIAA or MPAA. THey do it because they have access to get what it is that they want, and not have to pay for it.

I can tell you that if you developed an application, and tried to sell it to make a living, then someone cracked it and started dispursing it online to the point where everyone was getting it for free - youd feel ripped off, losing potential money, and that people are illegally stepping in the way of your right to make money.


RE: I remember when...
By mindless1 on 8/4/2007 3:49:47 AM , Rating: 2
What a load of BS.

Yes, If I developed an app whose "price is high", more than the consumer was willing to pay, it would not be at all surprising if it was infringed.

On the other hand, if they don't buy because they can't afford, whose fault is that really? I woul've been foolish for pricing that high and yet, I had no loss from those that shared it online, except if I had priced it more reasonably enough to promote more sales.

Basically, you're wrong on every count. Again I ask despire your denial, what special interest agency you work for.


.......
By Jcruiser89 on 8/2/2007 1:49:18 PM , Rating: 2
Modchips and swap disks are not always used for pirated games. I myself use a modchip to play imported pal formated games that I otherwise would not be able to play.




RE: .......
By darkpaw on 8/2/2007 1:58:10 PM , Rating: 2
I'm in complete agreement here. The only systems I've ever had any kind of mod for was the original PS and the PSP. I had the parrallel port mod for the PS, mostly to play around with some imported games my roommate bought. I modded my PSP solely to play the PS games I own on it.

Problem is, people that do pirate tend to ruin things for everyone because the companies crack down hard on anything that allows pirating as well as fair use. I've known several people that had modded xboxes, not because they couldn't afford the games (they easily could) just because if they could pirate and get it for free they would.


RE: .......
By BlackiceXP on 8/2/2007 6:41:16 PM , Rating: 2
Got to add my 2 cents here. To be perfectly honest, I believe one of the major reasons for piracy is the fact that current music, games, and movies are, for the most part, mediocre in quality and content at best. Don't get me wrong, piracy is not something I condone, but I believe charging $60 for the latest, bland, PS3 or 360 game is not a good thing. I DO support these companies by buying the few recent titles, IMO, that are still worth getting, otherwise I just vote with my dollar and say no. ;)


RE: .......
By SmokeRngs on 8/3/2007 2:08:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
To be perfectly honest, I believe one of the major reasons for piracy is the fact that current music, games, and movies are, for the most part, mediocre in quality and content at best. Don't get me wrong, piracy is not something I condone, but I believe charging $60 for the latest, bland, PS3 or 360 game is not a good thing.


You bring up a good point. I remember a previous news post months back which brought up the fact that some of the highest selling Xbox360 games were technically the Burger King games for $5. I've never played any of the games, but considering the price I would assume they were mediocre at best. However, that was not a problem. The games were priced so low that people didn't really care.

I do not advocate every game should be $5. What I am advocating is that games should be priced according to their worth and demand. One of the reasons given for the same price for just about every game on the same console is because the blockbuster games help pay for the losses associated with the crappy and mediocre games.

This has to be one of the dumbest things I can think of. Why would you want to put out lousy games which if sold for what they were worth makes them a loss? Personally, I think a game should be priced more in line with the budget of the game and the demand for it. Let the industry go back to sink or swim. I guarantee that if this happened, more games would be higher quality and there wouldn't be anywhere near as many crappy games. The current business model does not promote quality innovation.

Would this increase the price of top tier games? Yes. Most people would be happy to pay the higher prices for them as long as they were quality. But, many other games would be priced lower which would balance things out. I believe that with lower prices on non blockbuster games more people would be willing to take a risk on them. Even if they don't like the game that much, they aren't out the higher price and either won't feel ripped off or just won't feel as ripped off. I think the Burger King games proved this.


for example...
By wetwareinterface on 8/2/2007 8:06:57 PM , Rating: 2
to start with I am not advocating piracy or theft but...

the current laws regarding copyright and intellectual property are very flawed. for example if i walk down a busy street and am humming a beatles tune i can be sued by michael jackson. he owns the publishing rights to the sheet music for their songs and under current laws and precendents covering public performances and publishing rights he can sue me for performing my rendition of a beatles tune in public.

also if i buy a cd then a blank disc and copy it i am not violating copyright law, believe it or not it's the truth. there were provisions for the sale of blank cd media that state that in order for a company to manufacture and sell said media in the u.s. they must pay a royalty fee to the riaa based on the potential for copied music and it made it legal also to make a backup of your cds if you choose. this is all assuming i am the only "listener", not user, of this copied disc. if i have friends in my car and i play this copied cd then i am back to violating copyright law. now how stupid is this? if it were the original in my car i'd be okay but since it's the legal copy i'm screwed. go figure.

dmca has a ton of problems and should have been overturned by the supreme court as it went against their ealier prcedents in nfl vs. sony. however the current sitting supreme court justices are not exactly worried about your rights or protecting your privacys. dmca says i can not use any portion of a work that is encrypted or has a system of protection to prevent copying in place. it used to be under fair use precedents i could use a short clip of a video or a still from it in a presentation to illustrate a point as long as i did not use it strictly for the purpose of showing said clip as a short example of the original work. as long as i changed the content of the video significantly or the context of it i was covered under fair use. now i can't use any portion of any video on vhs, dvd, hd-dvd, blu-ray, video disc, etc... for any reason at all. it used to be if i did something that irked the copyright holder he could sue me and see if my work was different or not in court. now i can't grab a single image from a still shot in a movie at all period. and the penalty isn't being sued and seeing if i'm re-interpreting the material enough it's a violation of u.s. law and i go to jail. dmca is flat out crap.

who owns my hard drive? mpaa? riaa? or do i have the right to ownership of the physical hard drive? what is a movie on a hard drive? it's an ordering of magnetic properties set there by the drive mechanism. according to u.s. law the way it sits now the riaa and mpaa own the magnetic properties of my hard drive as does microsoft or apple and adobe, etc...




RE: for example...
By mindless1 on 8/5/2007 2:11:18 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed, over the past few years it is disturbing how many rights have been eroded by special interest groups. It is us, the majority, consumers, being restricted from doing the same things we were allowed to under law for quite a few years. "Some" piracy-labeled activities were always wrong and are negative in hurting developers, but other activites are typical uses that didn't hurt developers so much as make our (the paying customers') use unnecessarily difficult and limiting.


Uh oh
By Polynikes on 8/2/2007 7:25:11 PM , Rating: 2
They raided some peoples' houses, I'm shaking in my boots!

Whatever.




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