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  (Source: Alaska in Pictures)
Maybe you can have your beef and fight global warming, after all

When it comes to carbon emissions, one of the worst offenders is the farming industry.  It's estimated that the large land mammals some of us like to munch on (or drink milk from) produce over 500 million tons of emissions in the U.S. alone, approximately 7 percent of our nation's total carbon burden.  That's about a third of the emissions of transportation and electricity generation, which are around 1,750 million tons and 2,250 million tons, respectively, according to EPA estimates.

While transportation and lifestyle are essential to modern society, some are advocating cutting down on meat and dairy products as they are more of a luxury and not a nutritional or economic necessity.  However, that may not be necessary thanks to a new deal brokered by U.S. Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack and the U.S. dairy industry.

Under the agreement the dairy farmers promise to cut their emissions by 25 percent by 2020, some of the most ambitious cuts promised by any U.S. industry.  This green leadership is a great deal for everyone according to Secretary Vilsack, who states, "This historic agreement, the first of its kind, will help us achieve the ambitious goal of drastically reducing greenhouse gas emissions while benefiting farmers.  (The) use of manure of technology is win for everyone."

The planned fix is full of manure -- literally.  Under the plan, more farmers will purchase anaerobic digesters, a device that uses the methane gas produced by cow manure to produce green electricity. 

Currently only 2 percent of farms have the special generators as they are quite expensive.  The new agreement looks to encourage farmers with large farms -- farms with more than 100 cows -- to buy the devices, while sparing smaller farmers the economic burden.  According to the Associated Press, there are 60,000 dairy farms in the U.S. with about 9 million cows.  About 23 percent of those are large farms with more than 100 cows, while the remaining majority are smaller farms.

Thomas Gallagher, the chief executive officer of the Innovation Center for U.S. Dairy and Dairy Management Inc., is confident in being able to deliver on the agreement despite the fact that small farms won't easily be able to deploy the expensive greentech.  He states, "This memorandum came about because of the commitment of U.S. dairy farmers and the dairy industry to a sustainable future.  Sustainability goes hand-in-hand with our heritage of taking care of the land and natural resources while producing nutritious products that consumers want."

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"From my cold, dead hands..."
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 12/16/2009 9:27:17 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
some are advocating cutting down on meat and dairy products as they are more of a luxury and not a nutritional or economic necessity.


Sorry, not gonna happen. I have a craving for a nice, juicy burger and a vanilla milkshake right now.




RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By mdogs444 on 12/16/2009 9:29:14 AM , Rating: 5
You know it! I'll be damned if I am going to reduce my consumption of steak, prime rib, milk, or any other dairy products.

Instead of worrying about the "crap" coming out of cows, we should instead be focusing on the "crap" coming out of the mouths of the Washington elite. The do as I say, not as I do....reduce your dairy and walk to work, while I eat $500 steaks and fly in my private jet to Copenhagen. In fact, I think we should take all the politicians in Washington who want to vote YES to capping emissions, and forcing them to fund it entirely from their own personal wealth.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 9:37:50 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
In fact, I think we should take all the politicians in Washington who want to vote YES to capping emissions, and forcing them to fund it entirely from their own personal wealth.


Actually after watching Boondock Saints I have a better idea. They should all be executed, publicly, as a warning to those who follow. In fact, in more civilized times, they would be tried as traitors.

I mean this with all seriousness. The time for talking is over. The only way, ONLY WAY, we're going to stop this insanity is if the people of this country rise up in anger against these idiots in Washington and take our country back.

Let them hang high, I say, like the traitors that they are.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By mdogs444 on 12/16/2009 10:02:22 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
They should all be executed, publicly, as a warning to those who follow.

I agree Reclaimer...and I guess that's why I'm on Janet Napolitano's "right wing extremist" list...yes, more dangerous than radical Muslims according to her.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 12/16/2009 2:48:24 PM , Rating: 3
Um, there is a voting process for this. Instead of murder, how about vote for someone else?

BUT, let's say you murder all these people. Who fills their position? Someone you appoint, or someone we all vote for? Oh wait, we all voted for this lot.

Or do you prescribe anarchy? If we get to anarchy, then you may be the first one up against the wall - after all, at that point murder is not a crime, right?

In any event, I would suggest doubling your medication and letting the person who minds you know you have been posting treasonous crap again. All for cow farts.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Uncle on 12/16/2009 3:17:04 PM , Rating: 4
Or how about reading Thomas Jefferson, what one of the founding fathers had to say, and get back to the basics of the Constitution. Their was a reason for the right to bear arms in the Constitution and it was for the enemy from within, not from outside the borders.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By kfonda on 12/16/2009 4:46:28 PM , Rating: 1
Well... I suppose if nobody else wants to do it I'll volunteer to be king.

The first step will be to get rid of all the lawyers and politicians. I'll take their money and use it to keep my military happy (an unhappy military is never a good thing)

After that, I'll work on the extreme left wing and extreme right wing nut jobs.

And then on the second day....

(Just kidding) lighten up already...


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By corduroygt on 12/16/2009 5:02:12 PM , Rating: 5
Easy, make voting a privilege, not a right!
Before each election, voters will have to take a 20-question multiple choice test right then and there in the booth, chosen at random from a pool of 1000 questions.
The score of the participant will determine the weighting of their vote, all correct will have a weight of 1, while all wrong will have a weight of 0.

Also have all training material available for free, so when minorities are negatively affected by this change, they can't say the test rewards the more affluent.

This would solve a lot of the problems with the current system.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By clovell on 12/17/2009 3:53:18 PM , Rating: 3
Nah, just only let those people who pay taxes vote. Let only those who have a stake in this country decide how to run it. This would return us more to a democratic republic rather then the pure democracy we've been leaning towards. Now that the civil rights movements have made their largest gains, it seems much more feasible.


By djkrypplephite on 12/18/2009 12:30:31 PM , Rating: 2
Really, all we have to do is ban party affiliations from elections. Think about it. If you wanted to vote, you'd have to know who you're voting for and why. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth it. No more donkey and elephant voting. Oh but that's not legal, according to Eric Holder. Blacks won't know who they're supposed to vote for unless it has a donkey next to the name. How incredibly racist.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By mmatis on 12/16/2009 12:17:04 PM , Rating: 5
When they tax your steak, prime rib, milk, and other dairy products to raise the price to $50 per pound and $20 per gallon, will you STILL not reduce your consumption? THAT's what the bastards will do. And the putrid stench passed off as "Law Enforcement" won't do anything to stop them.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By mdogs444 on 12/16/2009 1:42:07 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
will you STILL not reduce your consumption?

Not voluntarily. If they price it out of my pocketbook range I won't have much a choice if I want to survive for the week.

Same thing if they price cars out of reach for anyone under $150k/yr. I'll have to buy a bike regardless if I like it or not.

But, just beware that those things come at a cost...and I am a proud conceal and carry member :) lol


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By isorfir on 12/16/09, Rating: 0
By HostileEffect on 12/16/2009 1:53:18 PM , Rating: 4
I would simply buy my own cows, or buy from my neighbor, and undercut the stores at the farmers market.

...


By cruisin3style on 12/19/2009 2:05:24 AM , Rating: 2
While I'm not familiar with who did or didn't say something about cutting our intake of milk and meat (but I would like to be), I do know that the man mentioned in the article who promoted the alternative to that "plan" was appointed by Obama.

Your kneejerk reactionary attitude sadly seems to appeal to many people.

How about actual things that happened under Bush's administration like laws imposing on our privacy, versus what is sadly the more ridiculous sounding thing in this day and age: some idiot wanting to limit our consumption of meat and milk.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By TheDoc9 on 12/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/09, Rating: -1
RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By mdogs444 on 12/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 10:51:48 AM , Rating: 2
All of them. Even the Republicans. I don't see one goddamn true Conservative in the whole lot of them.

I'm rooting for a terrorist to dirty nuke Washington. I honestly am.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By mdogs444 on 12/16/2009 10:59:23 AM , Rating: 1
The only ones that I like in Washington are Michelle Bachman, John Boehner, and maybe Jim DeMint. Other than that, if we had governors like Rick Perry all over, we wouldn't have to bailout states run by liberals and their entitlement spending programs (California anyone?).

Ohio is a mess - run by Strickland, who would probably stab his wife in the back if meant he could get away with a tax increase.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By ClownPuncher on 12/16/09, Rating: 0
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 12/16/2009 2:53:57 PM , Rating: 2
Not "Nuke," "Dirty Nuke." There is a difference. He wants just a few hundred people killed, and then the city made inhabitable with radio-active waste. So you see, not obliterate the city, just, um, well - yeah, that is pretty bad.

The thing is, Washington is a hardened city. The dirty bomb is more liklely coming to your local mall. Pucker up!


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Hiawa23 on 12/16/2009 11:20:05 AM , Rating: 3
Can't we just abort the members of Congress who support abortion instead?

I support a woman's right to decide for herself. I don't see how that affects anyone, or their religious beliefs. People should their lives as they see fit not push their religious values on others.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 11:31:59 AM , Rating: 5
I'm not "religious", but even I can see that she's not "deciding for herself". She's deciding for her and another life too.

I honestly believe that an unborn life should be protected by the Constitution. Honestly, we are now actually applying the Constitutional rights to illegal immegrants and terror suspects, but an unborn child somehow doesn't fall under that? Bullshit.

I have no ties to any religion or faith. But abortion is straight up murder, and if you have any other opinion you just aren't thinking clearly on the matter.

Let the downrating commence. I'm on here advocating the executions of our elected officials. Do you really think I'm concerned about how my opinions look to you ? lol.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By eldardude on 12/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Nimmist on 12/16/2009 9:53:30 PM , Rating: 4
I fail to see where Reclaimer77 suggests that an unfertilized egg is a living entity separate from the woman. An egg is just an egg and sperm is just sperm. It’s only when they meet that they become something more. Basic biology.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 10:05:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
According to this, every woman who had had more than one period is a serial killer since that egg was not fertilized and a child who could have been born, was not. First define what is a child, then rant about abortions.


????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By eldardude on 12/17/2009 2:41:03 AM , Rating: 2
I'm just pointing out how ridiculous this is if you don't define what a 'child' is. In other words, when do you think that aborting a foetus is murder. By no means my last comment was supposed to be a logical argument.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Nimmist on 12/17/2009 11:53:16 AM , Rating: 2
That is the point. We know the unborn baby is alive and a separate life form from the mother. I would suggest it’s the mother’s choice to protect herself if the baby puts her life at risk. At that point she would be killing her baby in self defense. When do you suggest it’s ok to kill another person?


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By eldardude on 12/17/2009 12:37:35 PM , Rating: 2
Quick fact, not all fertilized eggs reach the womb - if they had not reached the womb they can fertilized while in those 'tubes' - When that happens, the fertilized egg, which according to you is something more, develops into nothing and dies.

Shall we start charging women for manslaughter when that happens? For that matter, shall we charge any woman who has had a miscarriage with manslaughter? After all, she 'killed' a 'baby', even if accidentally.

Why not? If you consider abortion to be murder.

I don't consider a foetus to be a person, and I don't care what National Geographic does to try and convince people otherwise.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Nfarce on 12/17/2009 1:01:09 PM , Rating: 2
I generally don't like getting into abortion arguments, but your so-called arguments are perhaps the biggest dumbassed ones I've ever read on the subject, for or against it. First your attempt at sarcasm about a woman having a period should be equated as murder; what, do you also consider yourself a murderer every time you pop a nut to p0rn?

Second, a miscarriage is a natural process just like a pregnancy. What part of an abortion is not natural do you not understand?

Third, where you define life inside a womb is irrelevant to the scientific facts , which you already admitted to ignoring.

Congratulations.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Nimmist on 12/17/2009 1:06:13 PM , Rating: 2
If a fertilized egg does not come to term, that does not have anything to do with the mother killing it, it simply didn’t survive. If the mother miscarriages, again this is not necessarily the fault of the mother. What’s more, due to the difficulties of trying to prove whether or not a miscarriage was intentional, this should probably simply be accepted as not the mother’s fault.

If you don’t consider a fetus a person, why not? Based on what scientific evidence? At what point does it become a person and what scientific evidence support your theory? History is if full of examples of what happens when one group of people defines another group as ‘not-human’, it is not reserved for the unborn. It is wrong in all cases.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By TSS on 12/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Nimmist on 12/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Kenenniah on 12/17/2009 5:32:21 PM , Rating: 1
"I think therefore I am" was meant as a proof of existence. It does not in any way shape or form imply the opposite (that if something doesn't think, it doesn't exist). A rock doesn't think, does it not exist? Do you know for a fact unborn children don't have thoughts, or animals? Even if they don't have thoughts, you are saying they don't exist?

Even if we were to believe your assumptions to be true, an unborn human doesn't actually exist ("is not"). How can you abort something that doesn't exist?

quote:
All i know is, in some cases, never been born is a much much better solution then having so suffer your entire life and still ending up dead.

Says who? You? How do you know this? Have you talked to every single person that has suffered in their lives? In all likelihood, there'd be some who would say they would have rather died than gone through it. However, it's just as possible some would choose to experience life, even if it is painful just for a chance at some joy.

quote:
Do you really think, that by disallowing the choice of abortion, your not making a decision for a life not your own? As well as making a decision for the potential children of the future, no matter how much they will suffer in life?

No, we are allowing THEM to make that choice for themselves. If they suffer, and they choose to die that's their choice. Killing them is taking away their choice completely and permanently. How is allowing someone to eventually choose for themselves making their decision for them?

Also, how much suffering do you consider too much? Everyone experiences some suffering in life. What if I determined that you've suffered too much in your life, and found a way to go back in time and kill you before you were born? Would that be ok? According to you that should be someone else's decision instead of your own.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By mdogs444 on 12/16/2009 11:33:04 AM , Rating: 2
Well these are my views, not religious views, because I have not been to church (outside of a wedding or funeral) in over 18 years.....
quote:
I support a woman's right to decide for herself.

So do I - she had the right to decide whether she was going to have unprotected sex or not, knowing that there is no 100% protection method, and that she would have to live with those consequences.
quote:
People should their lives as they see fit

Of course they should...until their decisions start effecting the fact that someone else may not be able to live because of it. My sister had an abortion at age 19, and told none of us about it until about 10 years later when she was pregnant again (my niece is now 4). Now, not a day goes by that she doesn't cry thinking that her daughter should have a sister/brother, and that its her fault he/she is no longer alive. The child never got the chance to make a choice.

This is all just my opinion - I don't think we can all agree on a right or wrong...but there are so many people who would like children and ready to adopt them, I cannot see just aborting a child for your own selfish reasons because you're a dumbass and don't want to deal with the consequences of your own actions - thus sacrificing someone else's life instead of your own. I firmly believe that adoption is the best choice for someone who has decided they do not want to live up to their choices.

Obviously my views are someone different for cases like rape, but those are such a small percentage of the problem.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 11:45:36 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah my best friend was adopted. He's a great guy and a healthy member of society with a good job and a college degree. And a family that loves him very much.

And to think, he could have been aborted. Seriously, think about it. My life and others would be less rich because of it. Not to mention a great guy wouldn't be alive.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 2:12:41 PM , Rating: 2
lol downrated because I love my best friend... an all time high for Daily Tech ! :)


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Schrag4 on 12/16/2009 4:25:33 PM , Rating: 3
Don't worry, Reclaimer, it's not that they think your argument is invalid. In fact it's the opposite - they KNOW it invalidates their position so they want your argument hidden from view.

In my opinion, a woman's choosing to end the life of her baby is no different than choosing to end the life of a dependent grandparent, or anyone else that merely burdens her. Oh, and while babies are a burden, and change your life forever, they're a change that's worth all the sacrifice and more...


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By xRyanCat on 12/16/2009 10:37:46 PM , Rating: 2
That's actually an extremely bad argument.

Since it's impossible to go back and change the past, it's equally impossible to accurately depict what would happen if X was changed. Suppose you and your friend were at your house, you got in a fight and he storms away back home. On the way he's hit by a drunk driver. If you never got in a fight would he still be alive? Perhaps, but there's also the possibility another situation could have arisen causing him to leave at the same time. There is no way to know 100% besides actually going back and living the scenario in a different manner.

Likewise, imagine the TRILLIONS of eggs and sperm that come within centimeters of joining but are stopped by contraceptive methods. By the simple enormity of them all, if every child's contraception had not been prevented there could be the next President of the United States, or Pope, or your soulmate. But you can't go back and join them so it's likewise impossible to say.

So by your way of thinking, there could have been someone who would have been an even BETTER friend (by your own interpretations) but never got the chance because of contraceptions.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Reclaimer77 on 12/17/2009 12:34:02 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Since it's impossible to go back and change the past, it's equally impossible to accurately depict what would happen if X was changed. Suppose you and your friend were at your house, you got in a fight and he storms away back home. On the way he's hit by a drunk driver. If you never got in a fight would he still be alive? Perhaps, but there's also the possibility another situation could have arisen causing him to leave at the same time. There is no way to know 100% besides actually going back and living the scenario in a different manner.


I think you are missing the point. He had a CHANCE at a life. Aborted babies have NO chance of life that you and I had.

Where did I say that every aborted child would have enjoyed a rich full life otherwise ? I didn't. But they would at least have a CHANCE at living.

quote:
So by your way of thinking, there could have been someone who would have been an even BETTER friend (by your own interpretations) but never got the chance because of contraceptions.


That is so stupid I don't even know how to argue it.

You people constantly trying to draw parallels of abortion to contraceptives to miscairages are just not thinking it through. It's really sad.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Schrag4 on 12/17/2009 9:53:51 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You people constantly trying to draw parallels of abortion to contraceptives to miscairages are just not thinking it through. It's really sad.


To put it another way, equating abortion to a miscairage is like equating murder to a heart attack or a car accident. In both cases the former is intentionally ending a life and the latter is a life ending unexpectedly.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Nimmist on 12/17/2009 11:55:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Likewise, imagine the TRILLIONS of eggs and sperm that come within centimeters of joining but are stopped by contraceptive methods.

An egg is just an egg and sperm is just sperm. It is only when that meet that they become something more.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By JediJeb on 12/16/2009 11:52:37 AM , Rating: 3
I have to agree with you here. I have never understood how someone who kills a pregnant woman can be charged with two counts of murder for killing her and the unborn child, yet if the woman decides the child should die it is ok.

Also if a woman has a baby and throws it into a dumpster( has been a few of those cases in recent years) get charges with murder and child abuse, yet a doctor and mother who are involved in a late term abortion where the child is totally viable are not. There is such a double standard applied in these cases. Whether or not you support abortion you have to admit that the double standard exist, because it is to blatant not to.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Spuke on 12/16/2009 12:37:05 PM , Rating: 1
All of you make valid points and don't deserve a rate down although I do disagree with all of you.

This is my opinion. The child is inside the woman's body and she is ultimately responsible for its well-being according to law. She can't, legally, throw it in the dumpster but she can have it aborted. A law making abortion illegal would have to remove some if not all of her rights over the child during a certain term and then reinstate them later. This would be a legal mess IMO as you would either need joint custody between the government and the mother pre-birth or sole custody of the child would go to the government while in pre-birth.

In other words, you need to find a way to give the mother enough rights to legally require her to care for the child but not enough rights to choose whether it lives or dies. That's the messy part. Where do you draw the line at adequate care and life or death? Your definition of adequate care and my definition of "she's killing her kid" would vary and would need to be spelled out.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 2:28:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This is my opinion. The child is inside the woman's body and she is ultimately responsible for its well-being according to law.


WELL being. Key word - WELL. I think that kind of implies the opposite of murdering it, don't you ? How is abortion being responsible for a child's WELL being ?

This whole " it's my body " bullshit is more Generation X refusing to accept responsibility for its actions. This attitude of entitlement and hippie-like hostility toward anyone or anything that holds them to a standard of behavior.

Our taxes are going so some whores can attempt to have their careless nights erased from history instead of owning up to it. Women should ask themselves "would I have a child with this man?" BEFORE they fuck them, and if the answer is no, well there you have it.

There are just no, and I mean NO, consequences for shitty behavior and attitudes in our society. Honestly, no wonder this country is going to shit so fast.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By ClownPuncher on 12/16/2009 3:52:01 PM , Rating: 2
You have never had sex with a woman that you didn't want to have a baby with? Come on now


By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 4:01:37 PM , Rating: 1
That doesn't matter and it has nothing to do with their argument. In fact since you went there, here is how fucked up our society and rules are. Let's say I DID impregnate a woman, fine. She could abort my child without me having ANY, and I mean ANY say so in it.

That's just so fucked up, and you know it.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By mdogs444 on 12/16/2009 4:03:21 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think that's a fair assessment. I think what his point is - is not that you shouldn't sleep with someone that you don't want to have a baby with...but rather you need to be prepared to take responsibility for, have, and care for that child for the next twenty years as a result of your actions.

People today do make too many excuses and are always look for an easy way out when making risky decisions but know ahead of time that they have no intentions of living with the negative consequences. People have promiscuous sex and have an abortion as an excuse not to be responsible for their actions, people buy houses and walk away from them when the value drop below their loan amount, parents are largely not being responsible for their kids actions always blaming someone else for not preventing something from happening.

None of this crap would have stood ground with our grandparents or their parents...and I don't see any good reason why it should right now. I'm where I am because I make decisions based on what is best for me, and when those decisions go sour I learn not to make that mistake again. I use that mistake as a learning experience for the future, I dont make excuses for it as if its somehow "not my fault" and then go out and do the same crap all over again.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By JediJeb on 12/17/2009 2:43:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You have never had sex with a woman that you didn't want to have a baby with? Come on now


Actually I can answer that question as No I haven't. And I can say that one of the biggest reasons I haven't is because I am always thinking of just that question. And since no form of contraception is 100% it doesn't factor into the answer to the question. If I were to father a child then I would be responsible for it, no question. Personally I feel that any man who wouldn't be responsible for a child they father is about the lowest form of life on earth.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Hiawa23 on 12/16/2009 12:05:49 PM , Rating: 2
So do I - she had the right to decide whether she was going to have unprotected sex or not, knowing that there is no 100% protection method, and that she would have to live with those consequences.

I agree & to add to that she should have the right to terminate if she needs to. Regardless of how she got there is irrelevant to me. It's her body, she will have to live with the consequences, it's none of my business, or anyone's else period, religious or not. It should be her choice to do what she feels is right based on her own values not yours or anyone's else.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Nimmist on 12/16/2009 6:17:47 PM , Rating: 2
It isn’t HER body that is being affected by the termination, it’s the baby’s. There is scientific evidence that the baby is a life force independent of the mother. The mother can die and her unborn child can be removed from her carcass and live.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By rippleyaliens on 12/16/2009 11:33:50 PM , Rating: 2
Yah, we should abolish abortion.. I mean if your sister/mom/daughter gets raped by someone , "its still life!!"
Or some white woman gets raped by a black man, or a mexican, whatever the combo// "its still life!!!"

Or the all time favorite, some preacher molests impregnates some 13 yr old "its still life!!!"
Last but not least.. WOW, this woman has 4 kids, yet she is only 22.. What to do.. Since she is pro-life, she had the kids, and yet has turned them over to FOSTER CARE, in which, JOE the tax payer, is now raising 4 kids that aren't his.. Takes about 250k from birth till highschool.. so that 1mil, could have been prevented with a few abortions..

OR the standby... A girl gets knocked up, no where to go, so she stays at home.. Cant finish school, cant really get a job until child is 5..(with no school, who can afford $400-500 a month in day care).. The father is not in the picture. (We are in a 55% divorce rate in the USA).. So now we have yet another ghetto woman\trailor park\burrough, WHATEVER..


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Nimmist on 12/17/2009 11:44:38 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yah, we should abolish abortion.. I mean if your sister/mom/daughter gets raped by someone , "its still life!!"

This is true, it is still a life. I don’t know how it currently is, but years ago if a woman was raped and reported it, the woman’s uterus was scraped clean to protect the woman from any diseases the rapist may have transferred to her. This process would also dislodge her eggs causing an abortion if one of the eggs was fertilized. In this case the woman is protecting her own body; it’s the woman’s choice to protect herself at the expense of her child.
quote:
Or some white woman gets raped by a black man, or a mexican, whatever the combo// "its still life!!!"

What does race have to do with this?
quote:
Or the all time favorite, some preacher molests impregnates some 13 yr old "its still life!!!"

This is another rape situation, who the rapist or victim are is inconsequential.
quote:
WOW, this woman has 4 kids, yet she is only 22.. What to do.. Since she is pro-life, she had the kids, and yet has turned them over to FOSTER CARE, in which, JOE the tax payer, is now raising 4 kids that aren't his.. Takes about 250k from birth till highschool.. so that 1mil, could have been prevented with a few abortions..

I’m not sure what your point is here, you’re not happy with our country’s support of single mothers? I would stay the woman should have been more careful, but has taken responsibility for her mistakes. She could have given her children up for adoption if she didn’t want them; there are millions of couples looking to adopt.

As for Joe the tax payer, we are paying for all the children in foster care, is it government support you are unhappy with? We also spend tax money on schools, maybe we should spend that money to make sure every woman has an abortion instead of having children? There are people who are unhappy they have to pay for schools when they don’t have any children.
quote:
A girl gets knocked up, no where to go, so she stays at home.. Cant finish school, cant really get a job until child is 5..(with no school, who can afford $400-500 a month in day care)..

You can still do many things while being pregnant, including going to school. If the girl does not want the child, she can give it up for adoption. If she does want the child, then abortion is no more of an option than adoption.

I have two sisters, they were both adopted. One of my cousins was adopted. Three of my friends growing up were adopted. One of my sisters got pregnant in college, rather than take responsibility, she tried to have an abortion twice, but the doctors refused due to complications. Being a college dropout with no husband, she chose to give her child up for adoption as she had been. Once her daughter was born, though, she couldn’t give her up. Now my niece is 10 years old, her father has chosen to take a roll in her life, my sister finished college and has a job. Was it easy? No, that doesn’t mean it’s ok to kill someone to keep your life style or make your life easier.
quote:
The father is not in the picture. (We are in a 55% divorce rate in the USA)..

This is a problem. I agree, too many people make bad decisions and then don’t want the responsibility that goes with them. Our country’s attacks against family values and our constant message that we shouldn’t be responsible for our own actions doesn’t help.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By darkweasel on 12/16/2009 11:10:14 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
How could one man and a few lackeys in congress destroy everything I have known and loved about this nation in less than two years ? How did this happen !?


I said the same during the Bush years. I doubt either of them really "destroyed everything" either of us has known and loved about our country.

I agree we seem to be going downhill, mainly because both major parties are just tools for big business.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Spuke on 12/16/2009 1:13:56 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Then you would be a moron. I'm not saying everything he did was great, but how can a rational person even COMPARE the two?
I'm quite rational and the present administration is doing no more damage than previous one's. I think you are blowing this out of proportion. The US is already somewhat socialist. Welfare, unemployment, social security, minimum wage, safety, labor laws, and etc. Although, in spirit, these programs are good for society, they are socialist programs. Socialism != evil. But there are disadvantages (major and minor) of those programs. Quite frankly there are socialist aspects of our Constitution like taxes (redistribution of wealth).

The country as you know it has been changed before both of us were born. This IS how we know it. I see Obama as just another politician that mostly does what we don't want him to do. That is my biggest beef with every politician. Socialist policies are already here and already embedded in our society. Does that mean we should just be totally socialist? Nope. Extremism in anything is bad for society. Things seem to work best with a balance.


By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 2:18:57 PM , Rating: 4
Two wrongs don't make a right. I'm tired of this " Well Bush did stuff, so stfu about Obama " argument from you guys. It doesn't work that way.

Just because mistakes were made in the past, doesn't give Obama free reign to pile on even MORE of the same. And the way he constantly uses the Bush administration as a human shield so he can do whatever he wants is shameless, and is SO very demeaning to the office of the President of the United States. I have never EVER heard a President blame the other guy as much, or if ever, the way Obama does. I never remember Bush stooping as low as to bring up Clinton every five minutes as a scapegoat for his woes.


By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 2:18:57 PM , Rating: 2
Two wrongs don't make a right. I'm tired of this " Well Bush did stuff, so stfu about Obama " argument from you guys. It doesn't work that way.

Just because mistakes were made in the past, doesn't give Obama free reign to pile on even MORE of the same. And the way he constantly uses the Bush administration as a human shield so he can do whatever he wants is shameless, and is SO very demeaning to the office of the President of the United States. I have never EVER heard a President blame the other guy as much, or if ever, the way Obama does. I never remember Bush stooping as low as to bring up Clinton every five minutes as a scapegoat for his woes.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By JediJeb on 12/17/2009 3:37:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Quite frankly there are socialist aspects of our Constitution like taxes (redistribution of wealth).


If the tax money is going to a welfare program then yes it is a redistribution of wealth. If it is going to the defense of our nation as it should then it is not. Taxes are to be used to pay for the protection and running of our government, not to be handed out to everyone in the country just so they don't have to work to become more than they are or to even maintain their current lifestyle.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By wiz220 on 12/16/2009 12:01:17 PM , Rating: 2
I have read every comment on this story and haven't seen one "liberal" comment. On the contrary most of what I see here is alarming extremism. Calling for washington to get nuked and openly declaring that people in government should be killed??? Are you people out of your F-ing minds???


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/09, Rating: 0
RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By wiz220 on 12/16/2009 12:26:28 PM , Rating: 2
Ya, the problem is that I find it all too convenient that it's right NOW that all of this "anger" and "outrage" is coming to the surface. The things that everyone is so up in arms over have been going on for decades from both sides of the aisle and there was nowhere near this level of vitriol. Sorry, just too much of a coincidence that it's when a black Democrat is in the White House. Where were the tea-baggers yelling about government spending when our national debt went from 6 trillion to 12 trillion in the past 8 years? I would understand if the anger was consistent, but it's not.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By mdogs444 on 12/16/2009 1:24:15 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
too much of a coincidence that it's when a black Democrat is in the White House

Is it too much of a coincidence that white people who voted FOR Obama have now changed their minds? Yes, they must have just NOW realized that he's black. Right? No one brings up race but you - quit race baiting and using it as a cop out for failure. It's really quite hysterical...but by evidence of his approval rating at 38% white and 98% black, I'm not so certain its the white people who are to blame for the racist tag-lines.
quote:
Where were the tea-baggers

Yep, that'll do it...you preach about conveniently being outraged. But now you call names at people who are finally starting to stand up and are fed up with tax increases, wasteful spending, entitlement programs, and unethical politicians? Who's the convenient one - the one who hates anyone that isn't a liberal and blames everyone for hating a black person (you), or the fact that you don't care about any "substance" of policy but rather race rules all?
quote:
debt went from 6 trillion to 12 trillion in the past 8 years

Did you forget that the latter of those 8 years the congress was under Democrat rule, so Bush really had no power or say in anything? Or are you conveniently leaving that out? Or are you forgetting the fact that people DID see it, and voted many of the bums out...and it turns out the Democrats who took their seats are even worse?


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Spuke on 12/16/2009 1:30:08 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Sorry, just too much of a coincidence that it's when a black Democrat is in the White House.
Don't make this about race because it's not. I chalk it up our collective ability to forget things that just happened yesterday. It's no different than the global warming scare now as opposed to the ice age around the corner scare in the 70's. No one remembers a damn thing so we repeat the same ole sh!t every 20 years or so. The last time the Dems were in office in force, there was "outrage" too but no one remembers that. The extremists on either side have always been outraged when one party is in charge because they truly believe (religion) that the other party is inherently evil. LOL!

There are different sides of the same friggin coin and do the same damn things. The lack of representation is what's killing America. Americans are middle of road types that flop back and forth between the two extremist parties because they think they are the only two parties to vote for!!!! As whacky as Ross Perot was he proved that there can be a viable third candidate.

When people say you threw away a vote because you didn't vote for the extremist parties, it's political terrorism as far as I'm concerned. "You need to stick to the status quo SHEEP!!! Don't "throw" your vote away!!" Bah! Vote for the candidate that represents the people, not the status quo, extremist candidate.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Nfarce on 12/16/2009 2:02:36 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Sorry, just too much of a coincidence that it's when a black Democrat is in the White House.


If you are one of those mindless libtards who likes to equate being against Obama policies as RACIST, then maybe you can 'splain to the rest of us why the head of the GOP is BLACK . Or why there was no "outrage" over Condi Rice being Sec. of State during the Bush II years; or why there was no "anger" over Colin Powell being Chairman of the Joints Chief of Staff during the Bush I years. Please, do tell. I get so SICK and tired of the mindless libtards in this nation equating that anyone against this train wreck of an administration is doing so because of race.

quote:
Where were the tea-baggers yelling about government spending when our national debt went from 6 trillion to 12 trillion in the past 8 years? I would understand if the anger was consistent, but it's not.


Maybe if you look at how much that spending went into NATIONAL SECURITY and two wars you'd understand that. Second, we have seen FAILURE after FAILURE of these new trillions being thrown around by Democrats running things; from that farce near trillion dollar "stimulus" bill that they bragged created or saved jobs (nobody has YET to describe the benchmark of measuring how a job is "saved"). And let's not forget that the Democrats just raised the federal debt ceiling themselves by nearly two trillion.

Here's some perspective: Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008. For 2009 - which Bush and Obama share responsibility for - there's an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt), President Obama’s budget would add $4.9 trillion in public debt from the beginning of 2010 through 2016. And that is WITHOUT this nightmare scenario of government run health care.

And finally, a LOT of people in this nation are getting sick and tired of Obama constantly referencing his administration "inherited" the problems we face. Oh yeah? How the can unemployment going from 5.5% under Bush to 10.2% under Obama be "inherited?"

This guy was elected and promised to bring unity to Washington and restore responsible spending again as a Moderate. Nothing could be further from the truth. Now if that makes us all racists speaking out against this administration, so be it.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By retrospooty on 1/1/2010 1:59:19 PM , Rating: 1
I agree with the racist thing. Whoever brings that into a debate is just wrong. I dont think you are a racist, its perfectly fine to disagree based on policy, but alot of your figures are crap.

"How the can unemployment going from 5.5% under Bush to 10.2% under Obama be "inherited?""

It was NOT 5% in January of 2009 when Obama took over. It was 8% and DROPPING FAST. The economy was in a tailspin.

Here's some perspective: Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008. For 2009 - which Bush and Obama share responsibility for - there's an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt), President Obama’s budget would add $4.9 trillion in public debt from the beginning of 2010 through 2016. And that is WITHOUT this nightmare scenario of government run health care.

Again, Obama inherited the worst economy since the depression, and that has alot to do with the budget being out of control - tax revenue is WAY down due to the economic shithole Obama inherited.

Maybe if you look at how much that spending went into NATIONAL SECURITY and two wars you'd understand that

Not to get too far off topic, but ALOT of that was created by Bush and his wrongheaded policies.

You are right that alot of what was in the stimulus is crap, and healthcare too. That is how washington works. Regardless of what the bill is for, it winds up with billions going to Congress's corporate allies. This isnt a dem thing, or a rep thing its ALL OF CONGRESS. Both sides rob us blind, and always have, at least in my 38 year lifespan.

You always attack as if the conservative/rep side is any better. Bush had congress for 6 years and could enact whatever he wanted and look at the shithole he created .

You always use the term "libtards" but dont seem to understand that there are many things there. There are liberals and there are corrupt liberal politicians and there are some really stupid liberals out there as well.

There are conservatives and there are corrupt conservative politicians and there are some really stupid conservatives out there as well. But YOU only see the negative on the lib side and the positive on the conservative side. That my friend makes you one of the stupid conservatives and a partisaned hack - thus you are part of the problem, not the solution.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Nfarce on 1/3/2010 12:36:30 PM , Rating: 1
Hey what are you doing bringing up an old thread, stalker? Booty, you are a riot.

quote:
It was NOT 5% in January of 2009 when Obama took over. It was 8% and DROPPING FAST. The economy was in a tailspin.


Go back and re-read my comment and tell me where I stated in January of 2009 that the unemployment rate was 5.5% (I'll let your A.D.D slide on the half percentage).

quote:
Again, Obama inherited the worst economy since the depression, and that has alot to do with the budget being out of control - tax revenue is WAY down due to the economic shithole Obama inherited.


Congress controls the budget through the US House of Representatives and Senate. What political party has been running that since the election of 2006?

quote:
Not to get too far off topic, but ALOT of that was created by Bush and his wrongheaded policies.


Other opinions would state that Bush just made up for what Clinton failed to do, kind of like what Reagan had to do that Carter failed to do. But, like you say, that's another topic.

quote:
This isnt a dem thing, or a rep thing its ALL OF CONGRESS. Both sides rob us blind, and always have, at least in my 38 year lifespan.


I don't disagree. At all. But there is one political party in charge now. ONLY one political party in charge. The Buck stops at their desk - and Obama's.

quote:
You always attack as if the conservative/rep side is any better. Bush had congress for 6 years and could enact whatever he wanted and look at the sh!thole he created .


Interesting. I'll assume that you have no comments on the Democrat obstructions like Barney Frank who told the Bush administration in 2003 that "Fannie and Freddie Mac are not in any financial crisis" when said Bush administration wanted to increase regulation due to Democrat "fair housing" wishes so the "lower class" could get home loans too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/business/new-age...

And if you'd get your head out of your ASS you'd see that the seeds of this economic situation were planted LONG before Bush II. But it's always easy to blame W. Obama & Co. knows that well.

quote:
There are conservatives and there are corrupt conservative politicians and there are some really stupid conservatives out there as well. But YOU only see the negative on the lib side and the positive on the conservative side.


Liberal Democrats just haven't given me much to believe in, including "change" that the presidential election a YEAR AGO promised.

You can stop mouth breathing and drooling now, liberal.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 2:06:09 PM , Rating: 3
I'm going to ignore your race comment, because it was unfounded, tasteless, and offensive.

quote:
Ya, the problem is that I find it all too convenient that it's right NOW that all of this "anger" and "outrage" is coming to the surface. The things that everyone is so up in arms over have been going on for decades from both sides of the aisle and there was nowhere near this level of vitriol.


We went from a gradual increase in government size and powers, to a full blown jump into Communism in 2 years. That's why your're seeing it. DURING a big recession I might add, which is the WORST possible time to increase taxes, burden businesses, and pass huge spending legislation. The people have been lied to, and they know it, and that pisses them off.

quote:
Where were the tea-baggers yelling about government spending when our national debt went from 6 trillion to 12 trillion in the past 8 years? I would understand if the anger was consistent, but it's not.


The national debt goes up every year. But if you are referring to Bush, which I think your "8 years comment" eludes to, there is no comparsion. Also, hellooo, were you around during the past 8 years ?? Bush was called a redneck, idiot, warmongering racist retard. Movies and books were made about him being assasinated for fucks sake !! He was accused of lying, bombing countries for oil, etc etc. There was PLENTY of anger and outrage over the last 8 years and I dare you, freaking DARE you, to argue that point. I'll bury you in anti-Bush links so high you'll need a second hard drive to load them.

The thing is though, the deficit goes up EVERY year. But Bush did it WITHOUT raising taxes, and without stealing from you and me and businesses. Also uneployment wasn't freaking 12+% ! Obama is spending more than all presidents combined, DURING a recession, DURING massive unemployment, and the numbers are so astronomical the only way to possibly pay for even half of it is massive rises in taxes. And the people know this, they aren't all stupid.

This is the largest fastest move we have EVER made to outright wide open Communism. If you can't figure out why it's different this time.../shrug. Keep thinking everyone is a racist.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By isorfir on 12/16/2009 5:53:37 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think you know what Communism is.

Virtually everything you would call Communism was put into place by Bush before he left office.

Obama won a non-narrow victory because of Bush's "Lets start wars without raising funds but at the same time cut taxes for the wealthy" mentality.


By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 6:10:06 PM , Rating: 2
Bush cut takes for everyone across the board and he also created an entire new tax bracket JUST to give the middle class tax relief. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your emotional rant.

Clearly tax cuts are Communism ??


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Nfarce on 12/16/2009 8:04:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Obama won a non-narrow victory because of Bush's "Lets start wars without raising funds but at the same time cut taxes for the wealthy" mentality.


Actually Obama won from an abundance of ignorant know-it all college kids and a massive wave of first time voters who voted for him just for his color who otherwise couldn't even name their own elected representatives in both chambers of Congress.

That, and an uber friendly media that put Obama up on a pedastal and did not do one. single. negative story on him.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Nfarce on 12/16/2009 8:22:55 PM , Rating: 2
And another thing: those who PAY TAXES benefit from tax cuts. Hint: the bottom 50% of income earners, those earning $25k or less a year, pay just 3% of all IRS income by US household tax filers. Compare that to the top 10%, those who earn $115k or more a year, pay over 70%. of all IRS household taxes. Hate to break you the liberal bed wetting news, but that bottom 50% ain't gonna benefit from a tax break much.

The amount of mindless ignorance on this blog never ceases to amaze me.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By OrSin on 12/17/2009 11:01:39 AM , Rating: 2
I love the way you look the facts. The top 10% of works do pay 70% of the taxs, but they also earn 90% of the income. So they don't pay thier fair share. And the bottom 50% that pay only 3% of the income, of those about 45% are unemployed and most of the rest make so little it had as hell to tax them. Straight taxs cut help the poor and middle class, tax loopholes help the rich.

Ignorance is rampage because people like you are blind to the real fact. Bush bankrupted this county and people are blaming Obama for it. The subprime market, banks going under and largest increase in unemployment since the great depression all happened under Bush.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By rcc on 12/17/2009 12:48:18 PM , Rating: 2
So, tell us why you think that those top money makers should be responsible for 90% of the taxes?? Do they consume more government services? No.

If you are looking for a "fair" share, why should someone who earns 100k pay more in taxes than someone who earns 50k? Again, do they use more services, probably not, on average. In fact, probably less.

Not only do they pay more because they make more, but they pay a higher percentage as well. Most of them would be happy to pay more, if it were a fixed amount. Take 20% (or whatever the % needs to be) from everyone, chuck out the entire tax code. Unfortunately, you can't sell that bill because the votes belong to the people that would have to pony up the different, or deal with entitlement cutbacks.

But fair? There is nothing fair about the current tax codes. The only thing in their favor is that it, sorta, works.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By wiz220 on 12/16/2009 12:35:37 PM , Rating: 2
Sooo, will it basically be "time for revolution" any time the candidates you support don't win an election?


By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 2:32:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Sooo, will it basically be "time for revolution" any time the candidates you support don't win an election?


LOL yeah, cause I sooo supported McCaine. Hhhahaah !


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Hiawa23 on 12/16/2009 12:30:13 PM , Rating: 3
I have read every comment on this story and haven't seen one "liberal" comment. On the contrary most of what I see here is alarming extremism. Calling for washington to get nuked and openly declaring that people in government should be killed??? Are you people out of your F-ing minds???

You bring up some good points. Declaring anyone should be killed is nonsense especially that guy in office, whom I proudly voted for, & if there ever was a role model my folks needed other than sports, rap stars, & singers we have one, & for many some sort of hope that they did not have previously.

You want to talk about a race war like one we haven't seen, we don't need radical talk like many spew, what we need are to find solutions. Sounds like alot of the nonsense Rush & Glen Beck spew. We need to find solutions to these issues, not as Repubs dems or independents, but as people, as Americans, not White or Black or brown, but as Americans.


By ClownPuncher on 12/16/2009 1:09:17 PM , Rating: 2
Why did you use Capitals on White and Black, but not for brown? You racist!

/joke


By TheSpaniard on 12/16/2009 1:09:46 PM , Rating: 2
this wasnt about race... and every time someone has a problem with the president, it is brought up as a problem with race instead of policy.

I didnt like spending on wars in countries I dont care about. and I particularly HATE the patriot act.

but the current president supports those things PLUS reaching into my wallet to buy rich people new cars and healthcare for poor people. (both of these maneuvers will lead to me being able to afford neither if it leads to tax increases... which they kind of have to)

thats my problem with the president


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By mdogs444 on 12/16/2009 1:13:18 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
whom I proudly voted for, & if there ever was a role model my folks needed other than sports, rap stars, & singers we have one

Did you grow up in a bubble? If athletes, rappers, and singers are all your parents can find to look up to...then the fact that Obama is the only black person outside of those groups you can look up to is problem enough in itself.

I'm not sure if you're aware - but there are many successful businessmen, judges, supreme court judges, politicians, and military officers that you can direct your attention to. Or is it the fact that they are successful republicans that you don't look up to them?


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Spuke on 12/16/2009 1:36:40 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
then the fact that Obama is the only black person outside of those groups you can look up to is problem enough in itself.
I'm sick of black people looking for a replacement for MLK (I'm black so don't bother with BS retorts). Stand on your own damn feet!! You don't need ANYONE to look up to. You want to be successful? Learn what success is and use it as a blueprint for your own success. It's going to take YOU to get it done anyways so cut out the middleman.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By mdogs444 on 12/16/2009 1:39:53 PM , Rating: 2
My question is, why does it always seem to be a fight to find someone to represent the black voice as a group be it Obama, or Jackson or whoever else - rather than each person in the country (black, white, hispanic, etc) using their own voices to represent themselves.

The day when your voice is not as important as someone elses is the day you may as well roll over and give up.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Nfarce on 12/16/2009 8:34:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
My question is, why does it always seem to be a fight to find someone to represent the black voice as a group be it Obama, or Jackson or whoever else - rather than each person in the country (black, white, hispanic, etc) using their own voices to represent themselves.


If that ever happened, the Democrat party would become extinct, and we all know how the Left in this nation hates individuality and identity. The Left thrives and draws power from group classifications and identity:

"The Whites"

"The Blacks"

"The Hispanics"

"The Asians"

"The Working Class"

"The Gays and Transgendered"

"The Rich"

"The Poor"

"The Working Class"

"The Less Fortunate"

"The Privileged"

Blah blah blah ad nauseam.......


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Hiawa23 on 12/16/2009 3:20:41 PM , Rating: 2
Did you grow up in a bubble? If athletes, rappers, and singers are all your parents can find to look up to...then the fact that Obama is the only black person outside of those groups you can look up to is problem enough in itself.

no, I grew up middle class, went to college got a degree & manage a company. I have done well for myself. I wasn't talking about me, but for many that's the hard truth, those are their role models.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By wiz220 on 12/16/2009 12:17:53 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
it's important to not put negative/contrary/wrong views in your mind.


So the key is to be perfectly insulated against any viewpoint that challenges your own, to never have to actually think about or consider a position? That's great, ingorant comments like that are why I know this country is in bad shape. When open thought, intellectual achievement and education are the "enemy", a society has little chance of succeeding.


By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 12/16/2009 2:51:17 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, have you read the ultra-conservative stuff here? Jason posts articles that get high post rates. He frequently mis-states or over-simplifies the stories so that posters will fight it out. Why? He gets paid by the number of posts he generates. We just paid him some more.


By ClownPuncher on 12/16/2009 11:40:04 AM , Rating: 1
What a load of overdramatic bullshit. Take your meds.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By jonmcc33 on 12/16/2009 9:41:08 AM , Rating: 2
Remember, that McDonalds value meal is a luxury item.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By BernardP on 12/16/2009 10:13:23 AM , Rating: 3
Meat, dairy products and fat (yes!) are nutrionnal necessities. I can't recommend the following book strongly enough:

http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-Bad-Controvers...


By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 12/16/2009 2:56:41 PM , Rating: 2
So you can't recommend it strongly enough? Why should I read it then? If you could see your way to recommend it more strongly, perhaps I would take a look, but since you can't recommend it strongly enough, I guess it isn't worth reading.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Hiawa23 on 12/16/2009 10:25:18 AM , Rating: 3
I think the whole global warming thing is manure, as I think the planet heats up & cools down on normal cycles regardless of what we humans do, & isn't the majority fo the earth water, & if so we don't evn occupy most of it. Alot of people are getting rich so, all is good. j/k..


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Entropy42 on 12/16/2009 10:52:46 AM , Rating: 1
Good points. I'm sure thousands of climate scientists have never considered your elaborate proof of "we can't live on water, most of earth is water, therefore we can't influence the earth's climate". If only they would've stopped trying to measure things and just applied these universal principles.

Most people are in no way qualified to reason this problem through on their own (myself included). Which is why it is amazing to me when people will pick 1 or 2 things that don't make sense to them, and use that as a foundation for believing or not believing in AGW.

Science is complicated. We don't all think gravity is a lie just because we don't understand quantum mechanics.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By mdogs444 on 12/16/2009 11:05:52 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Science is complicated. We don't all think gravity is a lie just because we don't understand quantum mechanics.

This whole climate change debacle has absolutely nothing to do with "science", and you know it. The emails prove that point partially - considering they acknowledge that the scientists in charge of writing the papers used by the IPCC were doing everything in their power to silence anyone who didn't agree with them.

This isn't complicated, and its not science. It's pure politics, a new global tax, a global "government" of sorts, and more control over the masses. It's redistribution of wealth, destruction of capitalism for "social justice" of other countries. You know this, I know this, and so do all the ass-bags who flew to Copenhagen on their private jets.

So spare me the "you don't understand science" mantra, much less the sarcasm. I can smell a pile of dog shit when its lying at my feet...and so can everyone else.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Hiawa23 on 12/16/2009 11:15:57 AM , Rating: 2
I'm sure thousands of climate scientists have never considered your elaborate proof of "we can't live on water, most of earth is water, therefore we can't influence the earth's climate". If only they would've stopped trying to measure things and just applied these universal principles.

I never said I had any proof, all I said was I believe the earth heats up & cool down on it's own cycle. My opinion, that's all it is.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By theaerokid on 12/16/2009 11:20:20 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Most people are in no way qualified to reason this problem through on their own (myself included). Which is why it is amazing to me when people will pick 1 or 2 things that don't make sense to them, and use that as a foundation for believing or not believing in AGW. Science is complicated. We don't all think gravity is a lie just because we don't understand quantum mechanics.


That's exactly why I think this "Climategate" controversy is mostly focused on the wrong points. I think the real issue is that the e-mails show the process of scientific peer review is corrupted by the interests of the proponents of AGW. President Obama keeps foolishly trumpeting the undeniability of the "science" that's been "peer reviewed", when this "review" he speaks of excludes any type of dissent whatsoever. At the very least the e-mails expose this inherent flaw in their process; that their "peers" are nothing more than those who agree with us.

I fear that political and economical interests are too powerful to let real peer review actually happen here.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Spuke on 12/16/2009 2:06:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
That's exactly why I think this "Climategate" controversy is mostly focused on the wrong points. I think the real issue is that the e-mails show the process of scientific peer review is corrupted by the interests of the proponents of AGW.
Ding! Ding! Ding! Science isn't religion. There is no belief or disbelief. There is only facts and data. Proof or none. And "Climategate" serves to show humanities flaws when "religion" enters the picture. Those "scientists" believe in global warming. Their results should be scrutinized heavily by the scientific community and met with skepticism by the public.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By JediJeb on 12/17/2009 3:50:20 PM , Rating: 2
Very true. If peer reviewed is the only thing that makes a statement a scientific fact then the earth is flat because for centuries that theory was peer reviewed and found to be true. W hen the flat earth deniers came along they were thrown in prison for their beliefs or silenced by other means, just like the global warming deniers are today.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By sxr7171 on 12/16/2009 11:35:22 AM , Rating: 2
It is pure arrogance to suggest that we can even begin to make a dent on those climate cycles that were there well before we got here.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 11:42:06 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It is pure arrogance to suggest that we can even begin to make a dent on those climate cycles that were there well before we got here.


We could if we....

1. Capped all active or smoking volcanos with concrete.
2. Eliminate all standing water on the planet.
3. Put a giant "sun screen" over the planet to regulate solar output ( something the AGW crowd always leaves out..)
4. Kill off about 90% of the people and animals globally.
5. Prevented rainfall from EVER happening.

Remember, 85+% of all "greenhouse gases" on the planet come from nature. So there ARE ways of reducing it !


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Kurz on 12/16/2009 11:59:23 AM , Rating: 2
Damn... if all of those measures are put in place I guess Carbon based lifeforms are doooomed. (Extras O's for emphasis)

Hence Humans, Animals, Plantlife in general are dead when we cut off the carbon cycle. Damn I guess no more simple sugars.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By geddarkstorm on 12/16/2009 1:21:52 PM , Rating: 2
Funnily enough, plants do respire CO2 through the same process we do (they produce energy via mitochondria no different than us, which uses O2 and gives off CO2). But then they also try to recapture it, and more, for carbon fixation, driven by photosynthesis -- and photosynthesis produces O2 as everyone knows.

So you have the chloroplasts taking in CO2 and producing O2, and you have the mitochondria taking in O2 and producing CO2. Plants are pretty dang cool in that regard.

And then, the water use by a plant is primarily driven by how long the stoma have to remain open, through which CO2 enters and water escapes. A higher ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere allows plants to keep their stoma open for shorter periods of time, minimizing water loss; thereby increasing drought resistance, biomass potential, and habitable ranges.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Kurz on 12/16/2009 1:55:28 PM , Rating: 2
Oh I know They use O2 to produces CO2.
The issue comes from the fact when we start meddling with the Carbon cycle. And saying we should reduce the population of cattle by taxing it. When Animals are a big part of the Carbon cycle anyway.

So many people believe they can play with nature without a full understanding of it. Yes we do produce extra CO2, but the system balances everything out. CO2 today cant hope to be the same levels as Dino Age.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By geddarkstorm on 12/16/2009 2:16:50 PM , Rating: 2
Hehehe, I was supporting you with silly facts most people don't know about (since it isn't really in high school or even some college path level education). This whole crusade against carbon is beyond lunacy as you and others have well pointed out. But someone people, like the leaders of far too many countries on this planet, don't get it.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Reclaimer77 on 12/16/2009 2:34:30 PM , Rating: 2
Oh but they DO get it. Use a scare tactic, in this case Co2 emissions and global warming, to achieve their goals. Control, power, etc etc.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By JediJeb on 12/17/2009 4:33:21 PM , Rating: 2
I believe the whole movement is about power. Some want power because the crave it, other are so afraid of what they can not control they make up ways to let them feel they are in control.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By Kurz on 12/16/2009 2:49:47 PM , Rating: 2
Yea... another Witch trials.


By Rookierookie on 12/16/2009 11:54:18 AM , Rating: 2
We made a pretty big dent on the population of dodos.


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By croc on 12/16/2009 4:51:02 PM , Rating: 2
I'd love a nice peppered 'roo steak on mash with a nice JS pale ale.


By ClownPuncher on 12/16/2009 6:02:31 PM , Rating: 2
In all seriousness, is kangaroo steak any good? I like to try new things :)


RE: "From my cold, dead hands..."
By aqwan135 on 12/20/2009 8:12:48 PM , Rating: 1
http://ta.gg/3yu

fr ee sh i pp ing

(jordan shoes) $32

(air max) $34

+++

wow


Uh huh, sure
By Ristogod on 12/16/2009 9:42:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Under the agreement the dairy farmers promise to cut their emissions by 25 percent by 2020


Like I believe any farmer with common sense would agree to this. Carbon emissions aren't causing global warming. So this is just another example of wasted resources being forced through unconstitutional government regulations upon the free market.

I'm starting to wonder where this is all going to end. Perhaps we should start hunting down all animals in the wild also to stop them from taking unregulated craps. Or perhaps we should tax breathing because it produces CO2.




RE: Uh huh, sure
By mdogs444 on 12/16/2009 9:44:42 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Or perhaps we should tax breathing because it produces CO2.

I would say not to give those ass bags any ideas - but i can guarantee you that it has already crossed their minds. In fact, some are proposing that we are all given a "yearly carbon allowance", and have to purchase our own credits above and beyond that.

I'd pretty much say that amounts to taxing breathing.


RE: Uh huh, sure
By AnnihilatorX on 12/16/2009 11:43:01 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Carbon emissions aren't causing global warming.


Actually it does. The question is how much.


RE: Uh huh, sure
By mdogs444 on 12/16/2009 11:52:17 AM , Rating: 2
False. History shows that increases and decreases in carbon dioxide are actually a RESULT of temperature...NOT the cause.

Graphs show that carbon dioxide levels follow the temperature graph at an 800 year lag throughout the millions of years.


RE: Uh huh, sure
By Kurz on 12/16/2009 12:02:34 PM , Rating: 2
Adding onto mdogs444

Mostly because temperature effects the amount of C02 the ocean can absorb. Colder it is the less CO2 is held.

Just like when you put salt into boiling water.
When it goes back to room temp the salt magically appears.
Same thing with CO2.


RE: Uh huh, sure
By geddarkstorm on 12/16/2009 1:12:35 PM , Rating: 2
Except with gasses it's reversed. With solids, like salts, the hotter the water the more can be dissolved before saturation. With gasses like CO2 or O2, the colder the water, the more gas can be dissolved. This is why CO2 in the air rises with rising temperature and falls with lowering temperature.


RE: Uh huh, sure
By Kurz on 12/16/2009 1:58:52 PM , Rating: 2
Thats what I meant sorry.


RE: Uh huh, sure
By geddarkstorm on 12/16/2009 2:19:02 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, no, I wasn't correcting you, just adding. Again, knowledge that should be common and basic, but somehow isn't and surprises people, even in the scientific community.


RE: Uh huh, sure
By JediJeb on 12/17/2009 4:42:35 PM , Rating: 2
I remember watching a guy on the Discovery Channel on one of those scare everyone shows about global warming and he was talking about how rising co2 was causing rising temperatures and had his nice graphs up behind him. What it seems nobody noticed, including they guy talking, was exactly what you said, the graphs show both rising, but the temperatures were rising first by several years.

For someone who doesn't know how to read graphs and look at them as relational it was very convincing. But for someone like me who deals with data and graphs and interperting them every day, it was so obvious he had it all backwards. In a proper peer review of the data he presented he should have been shot down for his conclusions, yet everyone on the show agreed with him.


RE: Uh huh, sure
By Kurz on 12/16/2009 2:58:07 PM , Rating: 2
I really should re-read my posts...
*Busy work environment*


RE: Uh huh, sure
By geddarkstorm on 12/16/2009 3:06:39 PM , Rating: 2
Haha, I know how you feel. Twas just getting the info out there for the sake of others; your post was just a convenient catalyst.

I've read a lot on both sides of the isle on this issue, and some of these common sense points are missed by too many in either camp. It's sorta disconcerting.


RE: Uh huh, sure
By Kurz on 12/16/2009 5:56:03 PM , Rating: 2
Very, completely agree...
Btw did you hear about the leaked emails?
Quite a few emails over the past 10 years was it? Latest one was 2 months ago.

In a few emails they are frustrated we haven't had as much warming as they predicted. Since they are convinced CO2 causes warming.

There are a thousand of email leaked from uea university in the UK.

www.Climate-gate.com


Better than some "green" projects, at least
By troysavary on 12/16/2009 9:30:43 AM , Rating: 4
Cows are gonna shit anyway, and in prodigious amounts. Might as well capture some of that energy.




RE: Better than some "green" projects, at least
By invidious on 12/16/2009 10:38:08 AM , Rating: 2
Only looking at the merit of the process is what gets us into problems. Cost effectiveness is extremely important.

I mean sure it would be nice to just launch all our nuclear waste into the sun with a giant rocket, but it isn't economically feasible.


RE: Better than some "green" projects, at least
By kattanna on 12/16/2009 1:00:16 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I mean sure it would be nice to just launch all our nuclear waste into the sun with a giant rocket, but it isn't economically feasible.


my concern would be why waste all that good fuel. lets reprocess it and use it again


By ClownPuncher on 12/16/2009 6:04:27 PM , Rating: 2
I'd agree. Though some of our waste cannot be handled like this or reprocessed (see Hanford).


10$ /Gal milk anyone???
By HueyD on 12/16/2009 9:31:10 AM , Rating: 2
That's what happens when the government starts putting restrictions on the "free" market. Prices increases and shortages.




RE: 10$ /Gal milk anyone???
By mdogs444 on 12/16/2009 9:33:52 AM , Rating: 2
Thats exactly right Huey.

The politicians in Washington who are messing with free market principals and piling on rules & regulations to companies and manufacturing industry have destroyed what we built in the industrial revolution.

Their regulations - from environmental, to financial, to social - have driven up the cost of manufacturing so high, that all those jobs are now in other countries because their governments will allow them to produce those products cheaper than ours will. I find it hilarious that the politicians are pushing $787B "put America back to work" and $50B "jobs" bills down our throats, when they are the ones who keep waving goodbye to our jobs because of their regulations and emotional legislative decisions.

But hey - they're all millionaires and they can afford to purchase the products at any price...so what do they care how much it costs as long as its not made in their backyard?


RE: 10$ /Gal milk anyone???
By DrKlahn on 12/16/2009 9:57:30 AM , Rating: 3
Yes. Another brilliant move by this administration. Taxing necessities in a recession. Which ends up taking more money out of our consumer economy.

This country used to have herds of buffalo the size of states. Settlers would wait days for them to pass. Yet somehow the emissions from their close cousins are a threat to the environment.


By Aloonatic on 12/16/2009 10:57:45 AM , Rating: 2
I am of course, referring to the fashion and beauty industries.

Fashion, effectively being the antonym to recycling, as it makes people through away perfectly good products and replace them when there is no genuine reason to, as opposed to not throwing something away and finding a new use for it, when it is reasonable to think that it is done with.

Often clothes are then made in China (often in less than ethical ways) and shipped half way across the globe, only to be thrown away after a few months.

Then think of all those scientists that our nations have educated only for them to go into jobs making potions and lotions of questionable effectiveness. What a waste. They could be doing much more useful research with their skills and knowledge.

What about all those potions and lotions themselves? They aren't made from unicorn tears, they are made from chemicals. Whilst having masses of packaging and an incredibly energy intensive and massive sales & marketing effort applied to them in order to convince people that they are ugly and old (which is not a good thing either and damages a lot of people mentally) and need to put this stuff on their face, even though we all know that they don't really work.

Let's stop wasting our time and energy on this rubbish. Beautiful women will still be beautiful women wearing year old trends, 2 year old trends even.

In short, leave my burgers, stakes, milkshakes, cars, air travel, holidays, electronic items etc alone 'till this other unnecessary crap is sorted first.




By mdogs444 on 12/16/2009 11:09:16 AM , Rating: 2
Well in all defense to the "potions" and "lotions", the women of France gave up their razors & shaving creme, deodorant, and toothpaste...

Look how well that turned out. I'll stick with my fashion trends and proper hygiene. - even if they are luxuries that deem not necessary.


By Aloonatic on 12/16/2009 1:28:45 PM , Rating: 2
Well, I thought it would have been oh so obvious that basic personal hygiene products were not what I was referring to, as only a moron would discount those. Well, I guess I should have realised my audience, who clearly cannot be credited with an ounce of common sense.

For clarity, I was referring to all those products that fight the 7 signs of ageing (no doubt there are more signs of ageing now, what ever they were/are) and the crems (yes, crems, not to be confused with creams) as well as jellays (no, not jelly, jellaaay) as well as the other made up nonsense, with biospheres, made up vitamins, chemicals, extracts and such.

Oh, but maybe the shower gels and shampoos that boast about containing 100 lemons and such are not a really good idea. Food should really be being grown to be eaten, not put into this stuff.


I can't help but wonder...
By PitViper007 on 12/16/2009 12:06:07 PM , Rating: 2
I can't help but wonder how today's cattle population compares to the bison population that used to literally blanket the mid-western plains of the US. How do the methane of the two species relate? Would be an interesting study I think.




RE: I can't help but wonder...
By RU482 on 12/16/2009 1:18:36 PM , Rating: 2
yes, that would be interesting.

I've had a buffalo burger or two...I wonder how well it would work as a full replacement for teh beef


I pledge to cut my CO2 emmisions
By mattclary on 12/16/2009 1:59:21 PM , Rating: 2
I pledge to cut my CO2 emissions 100% by 2109.




RE: I pledge to cut my CO2 emmisions
By Seriuqs on 12/16/2009 5:03:08 PM , Rating: 2
I'll join you! Now THAT is change I can believe in!


Typical Washington Ignorance
By dianezak1942 on 12/16/2009 2:28:00 PM , Rating: 2
Didn't America used to have over 60 million bison before the arrival of Europeans? Combine this with the untold millions of other large animals that were hunted down to numbers in the thousand, and you have greenhouse gas emissions on par with those given off by today's 95 million cattle. This is just another perfect example of the green movement gone wrong. Looks like our friends in Congress need to check their facts before passing legislation that raises food prices for everybody.




RE: Typical Washington Ignorance
By bigdawg1988 on 12/16/2009 6:46:30 PM , Rating: 2
Well actually only 7% of the CO2 comes from cows.
I wonder why the dairy industry folded up so fast? You think the transportation and energy (especially coal) industries are going to cave that easily? I think you guys are missing the point. I smell some major subsidies/tax breaks here!


Jason, you really are a genius
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 12/16/2009 2:59:42 PM , Rating: 2
You have totally sussed out the ragtag band of posters here vis-a-vis their hot buttons. The problem is that while your stories generate a lot of posts, they are all like a tempest in a teacup. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Way to get paid.




RE: Jason, you really are a genius
By Kurz on 12/16/2009 6:00:26 PM , Rating: 2
Well at least these articles and these discussion make people think ponder and grow. If he gets paid more I don't really care.

I am here to hear other people's opinions, thoughts, and beliefs. Since that's how most people grow they gather knowledge from other people's work and research.


Bio Gas
By SoulBlighter on 12/16/2009 9:48:30 AM , Rating: 2
Well, bio gas technology has been around as long as i can remember (30+ years). It was never considered as applicable in many countries due to cheap pricing of natural gas and electricity. But now trend is shifting, many daily farmers and governments are giving incentives and tax break. Norway, Finland, India are mass producer of Bio Gas. This technology pays back the ROI in two years of time and gives cheap electricity. I am not sure how much and how government is working with the farmers here in USA. Even the end product can be used as fertilizer for land after extracting methane.




smug storm is coming
By invidious on 12/16/2009 10:35:10 AM , Rating: 2
smug is the leading cause of global laming.




By paydirt on 12/16/2009 11:10:56 AM , Rating: 2
I am glad that they can give big corporate farms a tax break to pay a tax-payer subsidized exorbitant price for green tech. Hooray! *skipping and dancing*




Hippies
By Seriuqs on 12/16/2009 5:02:19 PM , Rating: 2
"Every time you eat a steak, a hippie's hackey sack goes down the gutter" - Patton Oswalt

I think perhaps we know the real reason for this initiative...




Reasons this is ridiculous:
By smartalco on 12/16/2009 11:49:38 PM , Rating: 2
1) My diet (roughly): Meat-30%, Grains-30%, Dairy-20%, Fruits/vegetables-5%, unhealthy things-15%
Meat and dairy isn't a luxury for me, it is what I eat.

2) '100' cows is no where near a 'large' herd (dairy industry not withholding), you have to get to a few hundred before you would find an operation that would be big enough to possibly afford something like this

3) As others have said, what about the millions upon millions of buffalo and horses that used the roam the plains? Our countries' cattle don't nearly add up to that.




The Answer
By btc909 on 12/17/2009 12:05:04 AM , Rating: 2
See, you see it isn't the gasoline powered vehicle that will destroy the planet. It's COW FARTS! BUT, wait, I have the answer. Pay some guy to follow a cow around with a Bic lighter. Get a whif, click the lighter! Problem, solved.




Ive got an idea
By shin0bi272 on 12/17/2009 5:42:47 AM , Rating: 2
How about those that are concerned about man made global warming change their lifestyle and go live in a cave and plant trees and leave the rest of society alone :)




If kids stop drink milk....
By ol1bit on 12/21/2009 2:26:00 AM , Rating: 2
Hell will freeze over.




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