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Internet service providers receive their biggest supporter yet

This week, the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) indicated that federal regulators and policy makers should proceed with caution when dealing with net neutrality. The idea that Internet access should be regulated to avoid providers charging too much is not as big of a concern as many think, FTC chairwoman Deborah Platt Majoras said. Majoras indicated net neutrality is a non-issue at this time in a statement given to lawyers.

Content providers such as Google have been pro net neutrality since the debate started. According to a bill by Dem. Edward Markey which was previously rejected, net neutrality maintains that service providers must provide equal service to all types of content and content providers. One example of this may be that an ISP cannot charge more for transmitting video content than say audio content, even though the two data types travel through the same network.

Tiered networking is a big topic in net neutrality as well. Content providers are concerned that prices will be heavily affected if an ISP is allowed to separate network performance depending on who paid what and when. One example of this could be a company paying a network provider higher rates so that their website would load faster on the customer end than that of another company. Companies like Yahoo!, Microsoft and Google fear that broadband prices will rise as a result and get out of hand.

For the last several years however, the industry has witnessed greater acceptance of broadband access, more of it available and a decline in access subscription prices. In the U.K., where broadband access is traditionally more costly than in the U.S., prices have gradually declined according to research by the U.K. Office of Communications. New technology rolling out such as Verizon's FiOS give DSL and cable providers even more incentives to be competitive.

Verizon, AT&T and the majority of other network providers agree the U.S. government is wasting its time. Verizon conducted its own survey on net neutrality and found the majority of consumers that took the survey were more concerned about the future of high-definition broadcasting than net neutrality. In fact, many indicated they did not know what net neutrality was or indicated that they did not even care. Hardware makers such as Cisco continue to side with the service providers.

The FTC has looked over net neutrality very carefully and at this time feels that any concerns over price hiking and anti competitive business practices will be addressed by antitrust laws, Majoras said. Search giant Google previously stated it would file antitrust complaints against any telcos if they abused network control -- a statement indicating the industry would still remain healthy and under control even without net neutrality laws.

Internet service providers have repeatedly stated that Congress should focus its attention on other areas and not on net neutrality.


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Bad science
By Proteusza on 6/29/2007 4:38:05 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
the majority of consumers that took the survey were more concerned about the future of high-definition broadcasting than net neutrality. In fact, many indicated they did not know what net neutrality was or indicated that they did not even care.


The second sentence of this quote makes the conclusion obtained from the study irrelevant.

I could do a survey asking people whether we should ban all active internet content, and because people are unaware what it is, they probably have the dont know dont care attitude.

So my study could show that people dont care about active internet content, and it should be banned. However, if people actually knew what they were being asked, they would opt to not ban it.

The researchers in that study seem to have taken ignorance as siding with one part of the debate, when it should really mean they dont have an opinion.

Net neutrality needs to happen, and I hope that google can spend enough to make it so, because given how money dictates American politics, they are the only ones with the power - the consumer is now powerless.




RE: Bad science
By arazok on 6/29/2007 6:47:37 AM , Rating: 3
I was about to post the same quote for the same argument.

Finding a group of retards to back up your claims dosen't make a strong argument.


RE: Bad science
By BMFPitt on 6/29/2007 9:48:57 AM , Rating: 3
If you word the question the right way, I'm sure you can get 50% of people to agree that there should be a genocide against some group they belong to.


RE: Bad science
By Proteusza on 6/29/2007 10:17:30 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly!

What if the question was, "Do you want superfast tiered internet, or do you want the government to enforce net neutrality to slow down the internet?"


RE: Bad science
By masher2 (blog) on 6/29/2007 10:54:47 AM , Rating: 5
> "Do you want superfast tiered internet, or do you want the government to enforce net neutrality to slow down the internet?"

Not a bad way to phrase it actually. It's probably more accurate than the way most of these surveys are worded.


RE: Bad science
By BMFPitt on 6/29/07, Rating: 0
RE: Bad science
By masher2 (blog) on 6/29/2007 11:34:14 AM , Rating: 3
I'm sorry, but your fears are supported neither by reality nor by historical precedent. Companies will pay for greater access for themselves, not less access for their competitors. A telecomm company doesn't make money by shafting its customers and, even if they did, there are plenty of other providers willing to take their business.

What's a better business model? Pay "X" to push you into the top tier, or 10,000X to bribe not only your own provider, but every other provider on the planet to downgrade service for each and every competitor you have? Its utter silliness. And, even if you think otherwise, telcos would happily accept any legislation which illegalized such behavior...it already is, in fact, in many such forms. Net Neutrality isn't about this at all, and even its most ardent supporters admit it.

Net Neutrality is about preventing telcos from the first choice-- providing some form of greater access for those willing to pay for it. New, enhanced QOS features such as minimum-latency pipes, guaranteed-packet delivery, etc. Everyone who doesn't pay is still going to get the same quality of service they already do (in fact, they'll get it slightly cheaper as many costs will be amortized against the higher tiers). But people who can pay more, will get more. The free market in action.


RE: Bad science
By Oregonian2 on 6/29/2007 3:44:34 PM , Rating: 1
Except that when you give somebody a higher QoS setting, it degrades all that with lower settings. This is essentially what the other fellow said. You at least indirectly pay to have your competitor access degraded (unless you assume the bandwidth available exceeds the total demand).


RE: Bad science
By masher2 (blog) on 6/29/2007 5:55:44 PM , Rating: 3
> "This is essentially what the other fellow said"

Not even close. He said Company A might pay to have a competitors's service specifically degraded. Not pay to have their own service upgraded and, as a side effect, have a microscropic effect on every other client of that ISP, whether or not they're a competitor.

You're essentially claiming that, because you bought more bandwidth from your cable company, you were "paying" to disrupt the service of your neighbors.

In any case, a huge number of the prospective new services do NOT affect existing traffic in any way. Some do, but their impact is extremely minor, and that's assuming new bandwidth isn't added to compensate.


RE: Bad science
By BMFPitt on 6/29/2007 8:51:26 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
In any case, a huge number of the prospective new services do NOT affect existing traffic in any way. Some do, but their impact is extremely minor, and that's assuming new bandwidth isn't added to compensate.
Then lobby for a law that is written to allow non-disruptive functions, but not disruptive ones. Difficulty: You can't just say nothing will ever be disruptive.


RE: Bad science
By tehliberal on 6/29/2007 1:25:06 PM , Rating: 1
This coming from someone whose priorities are well-known and extremely anti-consumer.

You're basically saying that the ISPs should be allowed to become the new mafia. Pay them protection money or people using their service won't be able to access your site as fast.

Allowing ISPs to do this is the same as allowing the mob to post guards outside of businesses that don't pay to keep customers out.

That's the "more accurate" way of describing what the ISPs are attempting to do.


RE: Bad science
By geddarkstorm on 6/29/2007 2:40:39 PM , Rating: 1
So true!

No matter which way you come at it (pay to have customers access you faster, or pay to have customers access your competitors slower) the end result is exactly the same, and just how you put it. Think how horrific it would be to be a internet start up company in such a tiered net. There's no way you could pay to have faster access to you by customers from many different ISPs, so you'd have to throw active content, video, flash, all that right out the window. Then who'll be attracted to you if your site isn't as flashy as big company sites and slower to boot, even if your products are priced better? It really would turn the internet into a mafia world.

And people who say there's no historical precedence for this have completely ignored the Mob era, which lasted decades. In fact, there are still mods out there.

Is it good for business to have people have greater access to your stuff? Yes. But it's even better business if they have no alternatives OTHER THAN your stuff, no matter how slow your site is! The internet would become a very unfriendly, underhanded place very fast if net neutrality wasn't upheld. ALL of history and current events prove that, not otherwise (just watch the legal battles between companies even right now and anyone would get the picture).


RE: Bad science
By geddarkstorm on 6/29/2007 2:56:34 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, I didn't mean to say "net neutrality" in the sense of the mandates they are talking about here. I'm not sure what the actual "net neutrality" bills would do. But when I think of no neutrality, I mean total unrestricted access for businesses to do whatever they want in the areas they own.

The issue isn't so simple on either side, and I am generally against government regulations--but there must be guidelines or rules, as if people can do it, they generally will if it means a profit. That said, the FCC is most likely right.


RE: Bad science
By arazok on 6/29/2007 2:41:44 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
This coming from someone whose priorities are well-known and extremely anti-consumer.


Actually, everything I have seen from Masher is pro-consumer. It just looks anti-consumer to people who don't grasp the realities of economics, or the way the world works.


RE: Bad science
By tehliberal on 6/29/07, Rating: -1
RE: Bad science
By arazok on 6/29/2007 5:07:52 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Ah yes, when you can't prove me wrong, insult my intelligence.


At no point did I insult your intelligence. I just said you have a poor grasp on how the world/economics works.

quote:
Too bad one of us has several college degrees and has been tested to have an IQ over three standard deviations from the mean, and it's not you.


Yeah, well my Dad can beat up your Dad! Seriously, using your degrees and IQ score to attack my comment makes you look silly. Some of the dumbest people I know are Chemists and Engineers.

quote>Requiring companies to pay for their site to load quickly over an ISP's network only serves to raise prices and lower quality of goods and services purchased over the internet.

You're assuming that people who don't pay a premium will get slow delivery. It wont. They will almost certainly get the same service they do now. Most proponents are talking about "guaranteed packet delivery", and faster pipes. Not "Pay or I'm going to trash your packets and route you to a dial up connection".

These services are not needed currently, but if you want to see things like IPTV that you can rely on, (without any risk of lag or lost connections), you can't have neutrality. Every spike on the network has the potential to degrade service. Without prioritizing service, you can't deliver the next generation of internet services that require absolute trust in fast delivery.

quote:
anti-consumer views


Just because somebody believes in the theory of supply and demand economics, doesn't make them anti-consumer. We are all consumers in the end, and everybody is looking to shape a world where the consumer gets the biggest share of the pie as possible. The differences are in how to achieve that goal:

-There's the simplistic view, where things are cut and dry - Allowing corporations to tier access can only lead to higher prices.

-There's the less obvious view - Allowing tiered access will allow the people who need faster service to obtain it at a premium, while those who do not will obtain only what they need at a lower rate.

It's a choice between allowing for superior service at a price, or mediocre service for everyone. That people just don't get this baffles me. Every time the government regulates and restricts companies from delivering services as they see fit, typically in the name of the consumer, the result is always mediocre service. The CRTC here in Canada is a prime example. The government regulates local phone prices to prevent price gouging by Telco's. It costs about $45.00 for phone service here, and they aren't allowed to charge more. Sounds rosy right? Well, now that Vonnage and other startups are offering phone service for $25 a month, guess what?! The Telco's are prevented from lowering prices to compete by the very regulations designed to protect us.

Supply and demand rules. Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it. The rest works itself out if you just leave it alone.


RE: Bad science
By BMFPitt on 6/29/2007 8:53:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
These services are not needed currently, but if you want to see things like IPTV that you can rely on, (without any risk of lag or lost connections), you can't have neutrality.
You can't have it as written now. You could easily have it if written better, so that IPTV or other lag-intolerant things can be prioritized, but only on the merits of what t