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FCC chairman Kevin Martin  (Source: UPI Photo/Patrick D. McDermott)
Delaying the switch to digital could be costly, says FCC Chair

President-elect Barack Obama's transition team caused a stir when they suggested that the transition to digital television should perhaps be delayed.  The Commerce Department has run out of money to finance coupons for the promised free set-top converter boxes, which allow older TVs to receive digital signals.  As a result, according to the transition team, some Americans will be left in the dark if the shift is carried out as planned.

While the President-elect's team is exploring options for pushing the transition back, FCC chairman Kevin Martin criticized the idea of a delay.    He warned that pushing the date back from February 17, the current date would only confuse consumers and cause a mess.

Speaking at the Consumer Electronics Show 2009 in Las Vegas, chairman Martin stated, "There are options they can do without having to delay to get coupons flowing immediately."

He suggests emergency funding of the program by Congress or the elimination of the current 90-day deadline on the coupons.  Mr. Martin, at times a critic of President-elect Barack Obama, states, "I'm concerned about a delay in the sense that if you can solve that issue other ways, a delay has actually the potential to confuse consumers.  I'm concerned about a delay in the sense that if you can solve that issue other ways, a delay has actually the potential to confuse consumers."

Local TV stations have heavily advertised the switch to digital TV, with shorts attempting to explain the transition and how it will affect consumers. 

Mr. Martin also says that it's too late to delay the shift as engineer time has already been scheduled to remove analog antennas and put up new digital ones in their place. 

Technically the FCC is not controlling the transition, but as the nation's broadcast regulator, it has played an important role in it.  The terms of the transition, including the coupon program, were formulated by Congress.

Democratic FCC commissioner Jonathan Adelstein offered a different take from the chairman, stating, "This program has been badly mismanaged. It's not ready for prime time.  There are so many elements of the preparation that have not been undertaken ... We don't have program in place in the field to help people who need assistance in their homes. The phone banks are inadequately prepared."


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This is starting to get ridiculous
By Chaser on 1/13/2009 10:18:25 AM , Rating: 5
This is *ucking TV. Not food or shelter.




RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By dj LiTh on 1/13/2009 11:23:04 AM , Rating: 2
Yet its the prime medium for people to be notified to seek shelter in an emergency.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Gzus666 on 1/13/2009 11:30:13 AM , Rating: 5
Then I guess they should pay more attention, huh? If they don't notice all the commercials about the switch, why would you think they were inclined to notice or care about an emergency broadcast?


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By dj LiTh on 1/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Gzus666 on 1/13/2009 11:38:34 AM , Rating: 5
You're not a victim if you live BELOW SEA LEVEL. No one forced them to live there. If you are dumb enough to live in a place that is prone for natural disasters, don't be surprised when you get hit with a natural disaster.

What your silly response has to do with what I said is unknown at this point, but I love how everyone is a victim, even if they do something stupid.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By dj LiTh on 1/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Gzus666 on 1/13/2009 12:07:51 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
LoL.... so living below sea level, and getting hit by a hurricane is your own fault. Same with living on the great plains and getting hit by a tornado? Or living in California and having an earth quake hit? Its your own damn fault... ok


Unless you feel like blaming inanimate objects, yes. Personally I find that yelling at storms or nature doesn't do much in the way of rectifying the situation. What I have found though is when you live above sea level and not right on the path of major hurricanes, tornadoes or on fault lines, you tend not to be homeless or dead.


By clovell on 1/13/2009 5:45:58 PM , Rating: 5
I think you're trying to hard to place blame - natural disasters aren't anyone's fault. The sense of entitlement people feel after being subjected to a natural disaster is another matter.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By mdogs444 on 1/13/2009 12:16:26 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
so living below sea level, and getting hit by a hurricane is your own fault.

Yes, it is. There isn't one person out there who can honestly walk around a city and have to look up at a wall, which holds out water from flooding your entire town, and think its a safe place to live. The problem here is not even so much that a hurricane hit, although hurricanes are always in the general gulf area, so those people have to expect it. The problem IS that these people, whether they left or not, actually expect the rest of the country to pay for their homes, streets, buildings, etc we none of us were stupid enough to live there. Ever heard of the phrase "dig your own grave"?
quote:
Same with living on the great plains and getting hit by a tornado?

So living in "tornado alley" Oklahoma is everyone else's problem to clean up?
quote:
Or living in California and having an earth quake hit?

Outside of the state acting like a liberal communist area, ever think that people WILL NOT live there because of the earthquakes and fires?

You people act as if these tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, forest fires, etc have JUST started happening. These things are nothing new. If you live there, you obviously know what you should expect. If you dont want to deal with it, then leave. But don't expect everyone else who refuses to live there, to clean it up and pay for it for you!


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Reclaimer77 on 1/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By mdogs444 on 1/13/2009 12:44:47 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
You act like disaster relief caused your taxes to shoot up or something.

No, I don't at all. However, we still have people in New Orleans living in FEMA trailers. Who's paying for this?
quote:
Most people didn't EXPECT shit.

I'm not speaking about Katrina solely. I'm talking about all forms of disasters. Hurricanes, wild fires, etc. I have compassion for people who lost their lives and belongings. I dont have compassion for people who stayed behind so they can make sure to get their welfare checks, or who just deemed the message to leave as not important. If you honestly live your life in a hurricane part of the county and NOT expect to have one, then that is STUPID.
quote:
So basically only live places where nothing can ever happen to you, or eat shit ?

No. But you should understand the disaster possibilities of where you live, and expect to be responsible for yourself - after all, YOU chose to live there. No one placed you there and tied you to a tree.
quote:
I notice you don't have a problem with us opening special federal funds to bail out foreign countries who get hit by a Tsunami.

Not sure where you get that, but I don't like giving foreign aid to any country, regardless what its for. Our financial system is down trillions of dollars, and we still give and give to these "needy" countries, yet we're still the "evil American empire". Well, if thats how the world sees us, then we may as well start acting like it. Won't be any worse.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By FITCamaro on 1/13/2009 12:56:23 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. We need to be GETTING money from foreign countries. Not giving it out. I'm scared to death of that $750B Obama wants to give away to poor nations. Forget the name of the bill at the moment.


By Dreifort on 1/13/2009 1:33:27 PM , Rating: 4
Obama wants the US to make African nations as profitable as the US has made China and Saudi Arabia.

No one paid attention that when Obama said "Share the wealth" he didn't set any boundaries. If you work hard and earn a nice retirement package in savings - you should be required to share that with other ppl, even if overseas.

He has already restarted talks about drafting ppl into his Nationwide Volunteer program. Draft..volunteer...haha. BO was able to create a few suckers during his campaign, guess he's going for more. (It's ok Obamaboys; don't get all jihad thinking I just pick on Obama... McCain has some suckers too - he had some suckers thinking he was a conservative.)


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Reclaimer77 on 1/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By mdogs444 on 1/13/2009 1:07:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
We still have millions of people on Wellfare too. What are you going to do ?

I think you misunderstood me from the beginning. I was not advocated to "live and let die". I'm merely drawing a line between what I think is reasonable help and a separation of personal responsibility. As far as welfare, I'm a major advocate of decreasing the entitlement programs and welfare programs by 10% every year until they are gone. It makes no sense to create havoc by one day just not giving anything - but by coping with less and less each year may motivate these people to get up and do something and realize that they are not going to be babied forever.
quote:
There should have been a mandatory evacuation, but there wasn't. They weren't even TOLD to evacuate until it was too late.

While this may be true, you cannot sit there and tell me that you wouldn't evacuate whether it was mandatory or not. Living under sea level is bad enough, on the coast adds to it...and a potential Category 4 hurricane coming your way...and you still stay? If someone doesn't tell you to wake up in the morning, do you just stay in bed all day and sleep? We can't expect someone else to tell everyone what to do. Time to start watching out for themselves, and gain some personal responsibility.
quote:
But you have to understand the sheer scope of the failure of the New Orleans government and officials.

I do understand it. And I think the New Orleans people do too. A notoriously poor state just elected a Republican governor. That says alot.
quote:
They blew it big time. They let those people down. And no matter how much they blame Bush and the media has brainwashed everyone into buying it, it doesn't change the fact.

I agree, many government officials did blow it big time. The majority falls on the state and local government. But the people are at fault too. Just because they weren't told what to do, doesn't let them escape the fact that they all have minds of their own and can make their own decisions on what is best for them and their families.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Reclaimer77 on 1/13/2009 1:40:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I was not advocated to "live and let die".


Really ? You sure came off that way to me.

quote:
While this may be true, you cannot sit there and tell me that you wouldn't evacuate whether it was mandatory or not. Living under sea level is bad enough, on the coast adds to it...and a potential Category 4 hurricane coming your way...and you still stay?


Life is funny. I would have left, sure. I also could have been stuck on a gridlocked freeway, in my car, when Katrina hit. There was heavy rainfall days before the storm itself hit, and New Orleans roads are notorious for flooding.

Your argument is 60% hindsight when you think about it. Katrina could have also turned away and done no damage. Its easy for us to sit back, with full historic knowledge of what happened, and make judgments.

This is why we have government officials and so called "experts", to help us make decisions about our safety. Or in some cases, FORCE safety on us weather we want it or not via mandatory evacuations.

I'm not saying everyone effected was blameless. So I don't see how you guys can say everyone effected is just money grubbing idiots.


By mdogs444 on 1/13/2009 2:13:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Really ? You sure came off that way to me.

Sometimes its difficult to tell tone from text. I assure you, that I do feel bad for the families who lost loved ones. However, I still feel there needs to be a sense of personality responsibility - not just with those who stayed, but with everyone. I think that if taxpayers are going to help out with the costs of cleanup, reconstruction, and living expenses - that those who need that help are realizing the mistakes they made in preparation, decision making, etc. That's all. And unfortunately, it takes something like this for people to realize this.
quote:
Katrina could have also turned away and done no damage.

Very true. And if they left, they'd still be ok.
quote:
This is why we have government officials and so called "experts", to help us make decisions about our safety.

Yes, but we cannot control the weather, and just because there is an "expert" to help make decisions does not take away your responsibility as the person who needs to make the bottom line decision and perform those actions.
quote:
I'm not saying everyone effected was blameless. So I don't see how you guys can say everyone effected is just money grubbing idiots.

I've never said anything about money grubbing idiots. Others may have. What i'm saying is that the majority of people affected are not taking responsibility for themselves and shifting the blame on Bush, Fema, insurance companies, and everyone else for not wanting to pay for their damages.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By FITCamaro on 1/13/2009 2:21:41 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
We still have millions of people on Wellfare too. What are you going to do ?


Stop paying them Welfare? Just a thought. Sure some short term suffering will exist. But I'd rather those suffer that created the situation for themselves than everyone else who had nothing to do with it.

Welfare should go to the handicapped who are unable to work. No one else. You're an 18 year old single mom with 3 kids. Tough sh*t. Close your legs. Didn't pay attention in school and thus stuck in minimum wage jobs? Oh well.

I know you're a pretty big conservative Reclaimer but I agree on Katrina. Where was all the money, aid, celebrities, and media when the midwest was underwater from flooding? Nowhere. Why? Because it was mostly whites suffering. New Orleans got all the money and attention it did because it was mostly poor blacks who were affected. And the media and celebrities love to look like they care about the poor and the downtrodden.

Hell look at Texas from Hurricane Ike. Where was all the money, aid, and media coverage there? Again nowhere. Because who cares about a bunch of hicks from Texas.

New Orleans should have been left underwater as nature intended. Build back up the areas that are actually worth saving and not below sea level. Those levees will never be secure. Hell I remember when Ike was threatening them, there was an interview with a lady who lived in a house right next to the levees. THERE WAS WATER LEAKING THROUGH!


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Reclaimer77 on 1/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Gzus666 on 1/13/2009 3:00:21 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Are you just trying to piss me off ?


You get pissed off at facts? That makes a lot more sense why you act the way you do. New Orleans is effectively under water, that is how nature intended it. To try to say it should be otherwise is unnatural. His statement was correct.

quote:
They will be better than ever. Now that money is actually being spent on them. Unlike the 30+ years of funding for the levees that the corrupt Democratic government never actually spent on them.


Hear that everyone? Thanks to our tax dollars, poor people will get to go back to New Orleans after taking our money to take more of our money and use even more money to make their crap hole livable. Boy, I love the new America, where everyone who complains is entitled to something.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Reclaimer77 on 1/13/2009 3:28:42 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
New Orleans is effectively under water, that is how nature intended it. To try to say it should be otherwise is unnatural. His statement was correct.


Going to space and splitting the atom is unatural too. Are you really going down that road ?

quote:
Hear that everyone? Thanks to our tax dollars, poor people will get to go back to New Orleans after taking our money to take more of our money and use even more money to make their crap hole livable.


Ok I'm really done with you. Everyone in New Orleans isn't poor, or black, or looking for a handout. You obviously believe the media hype that Katrina was class warfare. Nothing is further than the truth.

Are you so childish you actually believe complaints is why New Orleans got funding ? There is no way in hell, ever, that any city in America struck by a disaster like that WOULDN'T get help. What the hell is wrong with you ?

quote:
Boy, I love the new America, where everyone who complains is entitled to something.


The federal government has similar funds for EVERY state, as well as the federal highway fund. Jesus christ, you really are an idiot. Complaints ?

Complaints do not, and never have, driven disaster relief. I'm honestly apalled at your level of apathy and sheer ignorance. Once again, you are simply a troll and calling New Orleans a crap hole is concrete proof.

quote:
Boy, I love the new America, where everyone who complains is entitled to something.


Disaster funding is NOT about entitlement. And you must have me confused with someone who voted for Obama.


By Suntan on 1/13/2009 4:30:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Going to space and splitting the atom is unatural too.


Actually, nuclear fission is a natural process.

As for going into space, well each person that has done that was fully aware of the dangers prior to the trip (except possibly the dog and the chimp) and accepted the responsibility for their safety and well being. Which is pretty much the essence of the problem that most people had with the whole Katrina thing.

-Suntan


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Gzus666 on 1/13/2009 5:01:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Going to space and splitting the atom is unatural too. Are you really going down that road ?


I think you missed the point. I didn't judge it one way or another, I merely said it was natural for New Orleans to be under water and it is. It is unnatural to split atoms, don't see how that has anything to do with the price of tea in China.

quote:
Ok I'm really done with you. Everyone in New Orleans isn't poor, or black, or looking for a handout. You obviously believe the media hype that Katrina was class warfare. Nothing is further than the truth.


Hold your horses there Skippy, let's not bring race into this. It comes down to a large amount of welfare poor people living under sea level that were too stupid or lazy to leave. Skin color has nothing to do with any of that.

quote:
Disaster funding is NOT about entitlement. And you must have me confused with someone who voted for Obama.


You must be confused, cause they all do it. Mr. Bush was one of the most liberal spenders in history and was all about kissing that New Orleans ass. Voting for some silly Democrat or Republican has nothing to do with you supporting our money going down the toilet. If those people actually tried a little bit and weren't large groups of worthless, lazy trash, I would have no real issue with helping. But in reality they were looting, robbing and shooting at rescue planes. When the people trying to rescue couldn't do it fast enough, everyone was a racist all of a sudden, even though it is clearly not 100% black. Face it, the smart ones got out and didn't go back, the idiots went back to mooch some more.

Lazy poor people love to blame other people for their plight, it is ingrained in them by their worthless, lazy parents. New Orleans is a crap factory, I have been there once and that was all I needed to realize where not to go.


By Reclaimer77 on 1/13/2009 5:42:00 PM , Rating: 2
None of this has to do with anything. What are we even fighting about at this point ?

It's already done and over with. You can't go back in time and change what happened. What are you trying to win here ?

New Orleans is back and it's not going anywhere. I'm sorry that offends your silly idealism, but this is America. We don't just abandon major population centers and valuable port cities because a storm blew through.

I'm getting over a flu so forgive me if I don't think we can solve all the nations problems in Daily Tech. I think we both have dedicated enough time today fighting about something that can't be won, and is already long since a dead issue.

I 100% agree converter boxes is everyones personal responsiblity. I have NO idea what this has to do with New Orleans, disasters, or anything else. Or how we even got on this path.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By FITCamaro on 1/13/2009 3:29:13 PM , Rating: 4
Is the port even in the section of the city that was underwater? Any reason it has to be?

quote:
Nobody cares about the midwest.


Thank you for proving my point.

quote:
Look I can be a jerk too ! Yeah those idiots in the midwest should have KNOWN they were going to flood ! Screw them woo hooo !!! BURN BABY BUUURRRNNNN !!!


You see the difference between the people in New Orleans and those in the mid-West is this. The days after Katrina, what were those in New Orleans doing? Looting, waiting to be rescued, and shooting at rescue craft. The days after the flooding in the mid-West what were people doing? Starting the process of cleaning up. Not sitting around with their hands out waiting for the government to save them.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Reclaimer77 on 1/13/2009 5:08:44 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah Fit I get it. Black people bad, white people good. Let a whole city stay in ruin because a few bad apples ruined it for everyone else.

quote:
The days after the flooding in the mid-West what were people doing? Starting the process of cleaning up.


Midwest ? We're talking a few hundred homes at best. New Orleans saw a complete breakdown of government and social services. Police and fire and rescue squads were completely gone in most cases, and those who remained were woefully underequipped and prepared. Fresh water, sewage, and food sources were wiped out after a few days. Does this honestly compare to your vaunted Mid-west flood ?

But I get it Fit. White people cleaned up, black people sat around and waited for handouts. And because of this, the whole city should have been left to rot and not one red cent of tax money should have been spent.

Or better yet, it shouldn't be a city at all because it could flood once every 200 years.

I get it. You win.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Gzus666 on 1/13/2009 5:24:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yeah Fit I get it. Black people bad, white people good. Let a whole city stay in ruin because a few bad apples ruined it for everyone else.


Where did anyone besides yourself suggest it was only black people? Even if it was, what would that have to do with generalizing a region? Black people are no more lazy than any other race. There are plenty of pitiful, worthless hillbillies living off welfare, only when they get hit with a natural disaster, no one cares. I find the most racist people are the most concerned with race. It has nothing to do with anything, stop bringing it up.

quote:
Or better yet, it shouldn't be a city at all because it could flood once every 200 years.


I was thinking more because it was a crap hole filled with horrible people, but that works too.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Reclaimer77 on 1/13/2009 5:33:38 PM , Rating: 2
Hey Fit was the one who first brought up the race card.

quote:
I was thinking more because it was a crap hole filled with horrible people, but that works too.


lol and what were you just saying about generalizing a region?

New Orleans is a great city. You never lived there so I'm not sure where you get off judging it or the people who live there.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Gzus666 on 1/13/2009 6:03:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Hey Fit was the one who first brought up the race card.


I must have missed it, so far you are the only one I have seen bring up race.

quote:
lol and what were you just saying about generalizing a region?


I said that race has nothing to do with generalizing a region. I'm fine with generalizing places, as it saves a ton of time trying to indicate every individual. This is especially helpful when a certain region is a crap hole, much like New Orleans.

quote:
New Orleans is a great city. You never lived there so I'm not sure where you get off judging it or the people who live there.


It was a crap hole. I don't need to live in places to realize when they suck, spending a little time there is enough. If a great city for you includes being packed with welfare slobs and horrible food, then I guess it is a dreamland for you. Personally when I was there, I got to watch people pee on walls during the day and bums galore along with sub par eateries thanks to their plethora of Gulf seafood(horrible slop) they love to put in everything. I will stick with Northeast seafood that isn't dirty, flavorless and nasty.


By Reclaimer77 on 1/13/2009 6:51:27 PM , Rating: 2
I have never heard anyone call New Orleans seafood flavorless or sloppy. If anything visitors would say its too spicy.

You either had a bad experience or no taste. I'm leaning to the latter.

Now you are just being straight up inflammatory. I truly regret every minute of the day I have wasted talking to you.


By mvpx02 on 1/14/2009 12:47:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
New Orleans should have been left underwater as nature intended.


LOL

I couldn't help but laugh when I read that... and think about this:

I find it funny how, in An Inconvenient Truth, they must have left out the part that mentions the rise in global sea levels as a result of the displacement of water that New Orleans should be under.

Negligible or not, somehow that sea-level rise (which actually IS caused by man) isn't a bad thing, but even without scientific proof, if Al Gore "thinks" that the sea levels may rise by another means, THEN it's a problem.


By SuperFly03 on 1/14/2009 2:12:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Hell look at Texas from Hurricane Ike. Where was all the money, aid, and media coverage there? Again nowhere. Because who cares about a bunch of hicks from Texas.


Oh this is a riot.

Having been through multiple cat 4 storms, including Ike, I will tell you that my family stuck around and so did most of Houston. The media is key in keeping things moving in an orderly fashion. Rita was a complete disaster. It took people 18+ hours to go from Houston to Dallas because everyone tried to evac and it wasn't necessary and it cost people. However, during Ike the media (mainly Judge Emmit) along with the weathermen were very clear who needed to evac and who should stay put. And it worked. The point is that you have to trust the media/government because if you go into full blown evac/panic mode you are going to make the situation worse.

We had gas, food, water and shelters open rolling in/open the next day. Ike was handled extremely well in comparison to Katrina (not hard, admittedly). Center Point updated their eta for power restoration across the entire city twice a day and kept everyone informed. Was it perfect? No but it was well done.


By clovell on 1/13/2009 5:53:51 PM , Rating: 2
> Yes, it is. There isn't one person out there who can honestly walk around a city and have to look up at a wall, which holds out water from flooding your entire town, and think its a safe place to live. The problem here is not even so much that a hurricane hit, although hurricanes are always in the general gulf area, so those people have to expect it. The problem IS that these people, whether they left or not, actually expect the rest of the country to pay for their homes, streets, buildings, etc we none of us were stupid enough to live there. Ever heard of the phrase "dig your own grave"?

Thank god for the stupid people who work along the LA coastline to make sure our nation gets ~40% its oil & gas that flows through there.

> You people act as if these tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, forest fires, etc have JUST started happening. These things are nothing new. If you live there, you obviously know what you should expect. If you dont want to deal with it, then leave. But don't expect everyone else who refuses to live there, to clean it up and pay for it for you!

Agreed to a certain extent. Places like the Louisiana Coastline are vital to the nation, and Congress did not allow the state any share of the offshore oil & gas revenues that it had collected for decades prior to Katrina. With that amount of funds, the state could have made a number of improvements, and set up a larger emergency fund so it could help its own residents.

Legislation that allowed the state a share of these tax revenues was introduced by Bobby Jindal at the end of 2005 and passed by Congress. However, I think we can all call that a day late and a dollar short.

This isn't as black and white as a lot of you guys seem to think it is.


By mvpx02 on 1/14/2009 12:33:57 PM , Rating: 2
It's simple risk vs. reward analysis, a thought process that every human goes through for various subjects (though many probably don't give much thought to where they live and work)...

"I want the nice weather, the available tech jobs & the great social scene of So Cal, but is all that worth the earthquake risk, high cost of living and ridiculous taxes?"

My current answer to that question is "No".  Instead I live in the mid-west, which has inconsistant weather (including the risk of tornados) and fewer cutting-edge jobs, but also much lower cost of living and lower taxes.

Everyone in this country has the freedom to make a decision on where to live, but also has (or should be forced to have) the responsibility of living with the consequences (good and bad) of their decision.

The same is true for the morons who are living in houses with mortgages that are too big for their means.  They made the bed, they sleep in it.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Reclaimer77 on 1/13/2009 12:25:11 PM , Rating: 2
I used to live in New Orleans and I still have some family there. I find your lack of compassion...disturbing.

New Orleans is far from being "prone" to natural disasters. While, yes, its in "hurricane ally", so are many many other states and cities. Should they not live there either ?

Sea level or no, before Katrina it had been 100 years since a major flood event. Which is specifically why the federal government has been funding levy reinforcements, which the corrupt local Democratic government of New Orleans never used to shore up the flood walls and levy's. Which would have prevented Katrina from even happening in the first place.

I just think your opinion about New Orleans stinks. No matter where you move to, you are not safe from natural disasters. Calling people who live in New Orleans stupid for living there is idiotic and childish.

I would bring up the fact that New Orleans is one of the largest and best ports in the country and is essential for our commerce and trade. Also one of the few places where domestic oil is being drilled and refined, but hey, why let facts get in the way of a good e-rant.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Gzus666 on 1/13/2009 12:32:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I used to live in New Orleans and I still have some family there. I find your lack of compassion...disturbing.


Don't care, your family means nothing to me. My family is smart enough not to live there. If someone wants to skydive and dies, I don't cry my eyes out. Take the risk and don't be surprised if things go bad.

quote:
New Orleans is far from being "prone" to natural disasters. While, yes, its in "hurricane ally", so are many many other states and cities. Should they not live there either ?


If they don't like getting hit by hurricanes, no they should not live there. Otherwise, go nuts, I'm not their keeper. But to expect others to fix your problem you got yourself into, then I care.

quote:
I just think your opinion about New Orleans stinks. No matter where you move to, you are not safe from natural disasters. Calling people who live in New Orleans stupid for living there is idiotic and childish.


If they complain about getting hit by a hurricane while living there, they are morons. If they live there and understand they will have to deal with the disaster on their own, more power to them. Is it particularly bright living in a known disaster area? No, but that is their choice. In the same way I wouldn't move to New Orleans, I also would not move to most of Africa, mainly because it is a death pit. Some people might want to live there and if so, go nuts.

quote:
I would bring up the fact that New Orleans is one of the largest and best ports in the country and is essential for our commerce and trade. Also one of the few places where domestic oil is being drilled and refined, but hey, why let facts get in the way of a good e-rant.


Then I guess they have plenty of cash to rebuild, stop bothering the rest of us for it.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Reclaimer77 on 1/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Gzus666 on 1/13/2009 12:58:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Can't be too smart if they intentionally spawned you.


In other words "I have no argument, so I will make more irrational hate comments".

quote:
Do you really believe this is a valid analogy?


Let me dumb it down a bit. Sky diving is safe most of the time and is not presented as a major danger. Living in New Orleans is safe most of the time and is not presented as a major danger. Now, both of them have issues that can arise. Skydiving, it should be obvious you could have issues with the parachute not opening or some other crazy crap happening, but you are falling out of a plane, it is to be expected. Living in New Orleans, you are below sea level and it gets frequently(comparatively) hit by hurricanes. There is a giant dam to stop everything from flooding, the risks are seen, but can be ignored just like skydiving.

quote:
I'm curious, years after Katrina, where is this flood of people expecting stuff from you ? Honestly, its old news. New Orleans has, and will, continue to rebuild. To expect otherwise is idiotic.


They were asking for our tax money handouts and complaining cause they apparently weren't doing a good enough job of giving our money to them. I live in Dallas, so I got to see lots of them scam for a bunch of money and live off the government for a while.

quote:
You see the world through the eyes of a child. Hell, for all your ranting, I guarantee you don't even pay taxes yourself kid.


I find it odd that you accuse anyone of ranting, as you seem to be the king. I don't pay taxes? Tell that to my W2 forms for the last 10 years.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Reclaimer77 on 1/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Suntan on 1/13/2009 1:39:12 PM , Rating: 3
As long as we are all talking about silly analogies, I can think of quite a few cities that I would feel safer jumping out of an airplane before living in (fancy a 2 room flat anywhere in Gaza anyone?)

Anyway, each place has reasons to be considered unsafe, but come on. To live:

- Below sealevel
- Right next to a gulf of water that is a tropical storm turbocharger
- Sandwitched by a huge lake right above you
- With one of the biggest rivers on the planet, used as a water shed for about 1.5 million sq miles, running right down the middle of town

and not be worried about, or take precautions for flooding fits squarely in the deffinition of "stupid." If truth hurts, so be it.

Now as to the notion of people asking for handouts because something bad happened to them, I go back to my old standby:

How many thousands of Mexicans braved the crossing of a deadly desert, evaded INS, obtained a paying job in an area where they didn't speak the language even though it was illegal to do so, managed to find room and board for themselves and be able to send money back to Mexico to provide for their families; in the number of years that we all saw the bums sitting out on the curb of their FEMA trailors waiting for the news cameras to come by and listen to how they were "unfairly treated by the government" for things that were beyond their control?

-Suntan


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Reclaimer77 on 1/13/2009 3:05:33 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Anyway, each place has reasons to be considered unsafe, but come on. To live: - Below sealevel - Right next to a gulf of water that is a tropical storm turbocharger - Sandwitched by a huge lake right above you - With one of the biggest rivers on the planet, used as a water shed for about 1.5 million sq miles, running right down the middle of town and not be worried about, or take precautions for flooding fits squarely in the deffinition of "stupid." If truth hurts, so be it.


Idiot, you don't get it do you ? That river emptying out into the gulf is exactly why we NEEDED New Orleans to be settled in the first place ! And why its so valuable even today.

Goddamnit, what are they teaching you idiots in schools these days ?


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Suntan on 1/13/2009 4:16:07 PM , Rating: 2
We need guys to go down into mine shafts. Doesn’t make it a safe place to live, with no cares in the world. Again, to live in New Orleans and not plan for flooding is stupid.

…And I noticed you completely ignored the part about the Mexicans that actually put some effort into making their lives better instead of sitting around waiting for handouts…

-Suntan


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Reclaimer77 on 1/13/2009 5:47:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
…And I noticed you completely ignored the part about the Mexicans that actually put some effort into making their lives better instead of sitting around waiting for handouts…


Yup.

I'm way too tired and weak to step on that bear trap. Simply being here is against the law, but you attempt to glorify them. No thanks, not taking that bait.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Suntan on 1/13/2009 8:21:51 PM , Rating: 2
Didn't glorify anything. They are clearly a blight on our country. But I can't help but be impressed by their self drive to make their life better.

While it could be argued that it is their own fault for letting their country's government turn in to a crap pile, at least you don't see them sitting idly on the curb talking about how unfair life was to them or how the government is at fault because they haven't given them enough.

-Suntan

-Suntan


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Reclaimer77 on 1/14/2009 9:19:39 AM , Rating: 2
Ok I'm well rested and highly medicated. Lets do this.

quote:
But I can't help but be impressed by their self drive to make their life better.


They are running away from their problems and invading another country because the U.S is so stupidly lax on its emmigration policies its a joke. They also have, by a huge margin, the HIGHEST illegitimate child birth rate this country has ever seen. Because if you have a kid here, it's legal, and then it's almost impossible to remove said parents and child from the system or the country. The burden they are placing on our health care system, by exploiting free healthcare in hospital emergency rooms, is becoming an almost unbearable strain. Not to mention they don't pay taxes and send money back to families in Mexico instead of investing it here ! They are parasites leeching from the tit of this great nation.

And this impresses you ?

quote:
While it could be argued that it is their own fault for letting their country's government turn in to a crap pile, at least you don't see them sitting idly on the curb talking about how unfair life was to them or how the government is at fault because they haven't given them enough.


This ... this is nuts. I'm flabbergasted ( is that still a word ? ) that in your mind this makes Illegal Mexicans any different or better than the MINORITY of people in New Orleans who have offended you.

You are seriously bent on your thinking of this issue if you can draw any kind of constructive parallel between US citizens caught in a disaster and fence jumping border dodging illegals.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Suntan on 1/14/2009 1:07:51 PM , Rating: 2
You don't seem to be capable of seperating one topic from another. I can find a person's actions reprehensible while being impressed with their tenacity. If you can't make that mental connection, then no need to continue on with this discussion.

Anyway, me thinks you are just splitting hairs here and trying to deflect with talk of issues that have no relavency to the discussion because you have no argument against the fact that some people, faced with even more desperate living conditions, manage to find a solution for themselve through their own hard work. While others manage to sit on the curb and wait for Katie Curic to come by with a microphone to hear their sob story.

-Suntan


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Reclaimer77 on 1/14/2009 1:11:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I can find a person's actions reprehensible while being impressed with their tenacity.


Well you are just a pillar of integrity now aren't ya.


By Suntan on 1/14/2009 4:04:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Well you are just a pillar of integrity now aren't ya.


Nope, it only takes a little bit of brain power to rise above the “Ug, me like you. Ug, me hate you.” single-minded mentality that you seem to judge people by.

Anyway, you should probably take more of your meds if that’s the best argument you can come back with.

-Suntan


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Gzus666 on 1/13/2009 2:39:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Throwing yourself out of a plane IS a danger. And it is in ZERO ways comparable to living in a city that has the potential to flood. You can't predict or know when a flood of Katrina's magnatidue will take place. You DO know, however, that throwing yourself out of a plane is a calculated risk EVERY TIME.


But living on a flood plane below sea level is not a risk everyday? Hurricanes can come out of nowhere. Sure, there can be some forewarning, but clearly that doesn't help them. It is a calculated risk to jump from a plane. It is a calculated risk to live on a hurricane path below seat level. It is not if you will get hit with a hurricane and flood, it is when. Hell, as long as the chute works properly every time, the risk of skydiving would be less. Those are things you can actually know as long as they are done correctly, you are fine. On the other hand, in hurricane country, you never know when it is going to be the bad hurricane.

quote:
Honestly this is just silly. Your analogy was flawed and over exaggerated to make your point seem valid. Living in a city, any city, is infinitely safer than sky diving.


Could you prove this through statistics? I have a feeling we will show many more deaths from natural disasters than skydiving.

quote:
But you're right. You sure are dumbing it down.


It's sad, but it truly seems I have to. Some people can't draw their own parallels.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Reclaimer77 on 1/13/2009 3:02:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But living on a flood plane below sea level is not a risk everyday?


No it's plainly not.

Do me and yourself a favor and look up how many severe floods like Katrina has hit New Orleans in the past 400 years.

quote:
Hurricanes can come out of nowhere.


Not typically. And they sure as hell don't START in New Orleans or the gulf.

quote:
Hell, as long as the chute works properly every time, the risk of skydiving would be less.


Are you an idiot ? Stop with this stupid analogy. If the chute fails you DIE, every time. Since when was getting caught in a flood a 100% fatality rate ? Did EVERYONE in New Orleans die ?

quote:
I have a feeling we will show many more deaths from natural disasters than skydiving.


Again, stupid, idiotic, and wrong. For this to be a true analogy millions of people would have to be skydiving every day. Is that the case ?


By Gzus666 on 1/13/2009 3:05:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No it's plainly not. Do me and yourself a favor and look up how many severe floods like Katrina has hit New Orleans in the past 400 years.


Maybe to idiots, but normal people realize there is a risk involved. Doesn't matter how small the risk is perceived to be, there is a risk.

quote:
Not typically. And they sure as hell don't START in New Orleans or the gulf.


It was a turn of phrase and who cares where they start? Clearly they couldn't get out in time, so they got hit.

quote:
Are you an idiot ? Stop with this stupid analogy. If the chute fails you DIE, every time. Since when was getting caught in a flood a 100% fatality rate ? Did EVERYONE in New Orleans die ?


Chutes fail all the time, that is why backup shoots exist. Also there have been survivors of both chutes not working, they merely broke a lot of bones.

quote:
Again, stupid, idiotic, and wrong. For this to be a true analogy millions of people would have to be skydiving every day. Is that the case ?


I believe percentages come in handy here.


By Suntan on 1/13/2009 4:41:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
how many severe floods like Katrina has hit New Orleans in the past 400 years.


How many does there have to be before a “smart” person decides it might be prudent to be prepared for another severe flood? 1, 2, 3…

I’d be interested to know what you think is the “reasonable” number of severe floods that a region has sustained in the last 400 years before a person of your intelligence thinks it prudent to be prepared for the (unlikely) event of one.

-Suntan


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By FITCamaro on 1/13/2009 2:24:59 PM , Rating: 2
Just looked at my last paycheck from 2008. $17,000+ in taxes. On an income of $64,000. But I'm rich remember...


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By FITCamaro on 1/13/2009 2:26:02 PM , Rating: 2
And that's $64,000 before 401K and other pre-tax deductions. In reality I paid $17,000 in taxes on about $56,000 in income.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By foolsgambit11 on 1/13/2009 4:13:43 PM , Rating: 2
You didn't figure in all taxes paid, either. Sales tax, property tax, state income tax, and excise taxes like gasoline come to mind (depending on what state you live in). Of course, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid could be considered 'investments' rather than taxes. If, that is, you think you'll actually see a return on investment for those withholdings. And, additionally, you should add an amount equal to your FICA and Medicare/Medicaid to both your total income and your total tax paid to get your actual tax burden and income, since wages are set knowing the employer will pay an equal share for those programs.

Still, given all that, I'm not saying whether that's a reasonable or unreasonable tax burden. It depends on whether that money gets used well or not. I'm guessing you don't think it's being used well....


By FITCamaro on 1/13/2009 8:55:03 PM , Rating: 2
That was federal income tax, state income tax, social security, and medicare. And if you're my age (25) and think you'll ever see a dime of your Social Security money again, you're kidding yourself.

And I think its a ridiculous amount of money to pay considering 40% of the country pays nothing.


By mdogs444 on 1/13/2009 12:35:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Calling people who live in New Orleans stupid for living there is idiotic and childish.

I dont think people are stupid for living there. I think people are stupid for expecting everyone else to pay for their choices when everyone else knew of the disasters that could happen.

I mean, cmon. I'd love to live on the Florida coast, maybe the mountains in California, or maybe even buy 100 acres in Oklahoma woods. But to do so, you need to understand the weather/natural disaster in these places. If they are ok with you, then fine. But if so, you need to only expect yourself to pay for any damages.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By darkfoon on 1/13/2009 1:04:52 PM , Rating: 2
I would argue that it's not the victim's fault when the city planners put the slum (i.e. the only affordable) living in reclaimed marsh land.

Then I suppose you'd blame them for not moving to a better place. To that, I'd say you've never been stuck in a situation with no way out (aside from suicide).

There are situations people can get themselves into these days where there are no solutions. Not enough money to move, not enough money to stay put, no way to get more money, for example.

Blaming the victim is very rarely deserved. Consider the world outside your own before you say stupid things.


By mdogs444 on 1/13/2009 1:12:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I would argue that it's not the victim's fault when the city planners put the slum (i.e. the only affordable) living in reclaimed marsh land.

What would you rather happen - give them the high priced in demand land?
quote:
Then I suppose you'd blame them for not moving to a better place. To that, I'd say you've never been stuck in a situation with no way out (aside from suicide).

Oh please. You honestly believe that? The same people who cannot "afford" to get out are already on government assistance. And they'd be on that same assistance whether they lived in New Orleans or Cleveland. Nice try to dodge personal responsibility and motivation.
quote:
Not enough money to move, not enough money to stay put, no way to get more money, for example.

Learn to save. Decrease your standard of living. Get a second job, a better education, etc.
quote:
Blaming the victim is very rarely deserved. Consider the world outside your own before you say stupid things.

You are using the word "victim" very loosely. Some people are victims, others are doomed by their own lack of personal responsibility.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By clovell on 1/13/2009 5:43:11 PM , Rating: 2
I think that's a red herring. The example presented contained many logistical failures that would have, undoubtedly, occurred regardless of whether folks had access to OTA TV.

As for making the attempt to claim that people are dumb if they live below sea level, you might consider STFU until you've actually been through such a thing. The Gulf Coast of the United States is responsible for roughly 40% of the gas and oil that come into the country, among many other vital industries - industries that don't work without people to run them.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you could have defended your point quite easily without resorting to being a jackass.


RE: This is starting to get ridiculous
By Gzus666 on 1/13/2009 6:27:22 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
As for making the attempt to claim that people are dumb if they live below sea level, you might consider STFU until you've actually been through such a thing.


Living below sea level? I'm not a moron, so I refrain. But, I did live in Houston for over 2 years. Northern part, cause I'm not dumb enough to live right next to the southern coast, as it flooded all the time there if you live past a certain point. Most of the people with half a brain in Houston lived at the Northern part towards The Woodlands, since it didn't flood.

I do love your argument of nothing though, fantastic. Arguing with people who think with their emotions first is rather funny. They are responsible for things? Wow, we should totally give them a free pass to do any stupid crap they want! Risk and reward, welcome to the real world and get over it.

quote:
Sorry to be so blunt, but you could have defended your point quite easily without resorting to being a jackass.


You probably could have as well, but you seemed to refrain. Also, don't be a pussy when you are being blunt, especially with me. Don't pull this "sorry" crap, you want to be blunt, at least have the nuts not to apologize before hand. I promise you won't hurt my feelings.


By clovell on 1/15/2009 4:28:20 PM , Rating: 1
> You probably could have as well, but you seemed to refrain. Also, don't be a pussy when you are being blunt, especially with me. Don't pull this "sorry" crap, you want to be blunt, at least have the nuts not to apologize before hand. I promise you won't hurt my feelings.

I did - I try not to get personally involved in this sort of thing.

> I do love your argument of nothing though, fantastic. Arguing with people who think with their emotions first is rather funny. They are responsible for things? Wow, we should totally give them a free pass to do any stupid crap they want! Risk and reward, welcome to the real world and get over it.

I actually had an arguement, but you may have missed it when you took offense. ~40% of the USA's oil & gas flow through (and I should have been more specific) the Louisiana coastline. The concept here is that the people who are stupid enough to live below sea level benefit the rest of us. The rest of us had not even allowed them to reap the benefits of tax revenues on the issue until after 2005. Furthermore, the US Army Corps of Engineers, who were responsible for the New Orleans levee system, did not ensure that they were built to specifications. As a result, the city flooded, causing billions in damage. The feds failed, and they should help cleanup.

Now, instead of assuming that everyone else who doesn't completely agree with you is somehow brain-dead, maybe you could stop being a tool and actually address the issues - I never said a damned thing about a free pass for anyone.

It's a tough situation, which should be approached prudence, consideration, and compassion, rather than bullet-point-style snap judgements made as you watch the highlights on the news. So, until you've actually made an attempt at more than a hey-look-at-me-I-have-an-extreme-opinion understanding of the situation, I think you should STFU. I'm sure you'd rather stick to your guns and take me out of context, though, because you're more concerned with being right than anything else.


By FITCamaro on 1/13/2009 11:59:52 AM , Rating: 3
It wouldn't matter if they were watching the weather channel or any other channel. The governor of Louisiana dropped the ball saying the storm wasn't a threat. Then by the time he said "run b*tches run!" it was too late.

Of course it was Bush's fault people didn't evacuate and his fault that the FEMA director didn't do his job to manage the cleanup work properly.... *rolls eyes*


By Bateluer on 1/13/2009 11:49:12 AM , Rating: 2
I think Radio is the primary means of emergency communications, not TV. A home emergency kit is supposed to contain a battery operated weather radio.


By gstrickler on 1/13/2009 12:46:09 PM , Rating: 2
Ever heard of something called radio? It reaches more people than TV, and it's actually the main method by which people get info from the emergency alert system. TV is easy because people typically have one on in their home, but people in their car, outdoors, at work, etc are more likely to listen to the radio and people who have no TV service will listen to the radio.

Radio- more stations, better coverage, fewer problems with interference, more portable, etc.

People temporarily losing the ability to watch TV (because they've ignored 2 years of announcements, billboards, magazine ads, etc.) will not be a catastrophe or even a hardship. The switch 'em to digital on Feb 17, 2009, let the procrastinators deal with the inconvenience.


By ZachDontScare on 1/13/2009 3:04:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yet its the prime medium for people to be notified to seek shelter in an emergency.

If its such a prime medium, they would have seen the PSA's that have been running NON-STOP FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS .

At some point, people have to take responsibility for themselves. Nanny government cant hold everyone's hands. If some people have not converted even after seeing 2 years worth of advertisements, they arent going to convert if you give them another year.


By shaggeo68 on 1/14/2009 6:52:08 AM , Rating: 2
What he means is that people don't have a _right_ to TV.
The government does not have the role of defending a person's right to have TV service because a person doesn't have that right. We can be thankful the FCC helped to coordinate the transition...but their job here is done. In my estimation the $40 coupon for the digital converter boxes only inflated their price anyways.


By Guttersnipe on 1/15/2009 3:29:34 AM , Rating: 2
so true. there is no right to tv.
and the number of advertisements/infomercial length tutorials on this on tv have been enough for any reasonable person to get with the program. all forms of media, print, internet, radio have discussed this for quite some time now. its ridiculous to drag things down because some people decided to procrastinate. those last few will get with the program the moment they see no tv and go out and buy a tv or box.


How difficult can it be?
By AntiM on 1/13/2009 10:18:00 AM , Rating: 5
Why is this a big issue? If you have cable, you don't need to do anything. If you live in a cave and still get your signal from an antenna, then you need a converter box. If you can't afford $50 for a converter box, or if you're confused by all of this, then you have bigger problems than not being able to watch TV.




RE: How difficult can it be?
By TomZ on 1/13/2009 10:28:18 AM , Rating: 2
I saw some estimates like 15-20% of US households are still not ready for the DTV transition. That's a large number of households.


RE: How difficult can it be?
By Gzus666 on 1/13/2009 10:38:16 AM , Rating: 5
Who cares? Let the idiots go a few days without OTA and they will figure it out. Catering to idiots for something they don't require to survive is silly.


RE: How difficult can it be?
By omnicronx on 1/13/2009 10:43:38 AM , Rating: 4
I agree, we are also talking about a free service, not necessity or a right. TV stations pay to broadcast to you, not the other way around.


RE: How difficult can it be?
By dj LiTh on 1/13/2009 11:11:21 AM , Rating: 2
I definitely agree with what you said. In that its not a service thats required to live. Also you have to take into consideration that its the major method of alerting people of impending natural disasters and harsh weather conditions (emergency broadcast system). I suppose the backup system would be the radio but i dont know too many people who listen to a radio indoors (most listen to the radio in their cars).

Again not saying they should get special treatment, but you should keep that in mind.


RE: How difficult can it be?
By DFranch on 1/13/2009 12:14:45 PM , Rating: 2
Well I suppose that once their TV stops working the radio will be the only source of entertainment.


RE: How difficult can it be?
By Curelom on 1/13/2009 12:18:28 PM , Rating: 2
If they lose there TV service, then they WILL listen to radio, at least until they can get their converter.