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The man who named the Xbox says his former employer is living in a "dream-world"

If Apple, Inc. (AAPL) created a console, it would destroy the Xbox according to one former Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) Xbox team member.  Nat Brown, who worked between 1990 and 1999 with Microsoft, blasts the current direction from Microsoft in a blog entitled "Stupid, Stupid Xbox.  He comments, "[An Apple console would] simply kill PlayStation, Wii-U and xBox."

Mr. Brown was a key team member in the early development of the original Xbox console, which launched in 2001.  He alleged was the first person to come up with the name "Xbox".

But he expresses frustration at the final result, which was released after he left.  While Microsoft does offer the Xbox Live Indie Games program to help small developers, he argues that's not enough and that Apple does a better job inspiring smaller devs to make games.  He writes:

Why can’t I write a game for xBox tomorrow using $100 worth of tools and my existing Windows laptop and test it on my home xBox or at my friends’ houses? Why can’t I then distribute it digitally in a decent online store, give up a 30% cut and strike it rich if it’s a great game, like I can for Android, for iPhone, or for iPad?

[Xbox Live Indie Games] is where indie developers have found they can go in order to not make money on xBox, despite an installed base of 76M devices. Microsoft, you are idiotic to have ceded not just indie game developers but also a generation of loyal kids and teens to making games for other people’s mobile devices.

Despite selling 76 million Xbox 360 consoles and 24 million units of Kinect, a recent report from another ex-Microsoft executive indicates that the unit isn't making that much money.  And Mr. Brown isn't even that impressed with the finished product.  He writes, "The device OS and almost the entire user experience outside the first two levels of the dashboard are creaky, slow, and full-of-s***."

Xbox 360
Is Xbox "stupid" and "full-of-s***"? The person who named it thinks so.
[Image Source: Gamasutra]

He adds, "It doesn’t surprise me that most people spend more time watching videos or listening to music on xBox, because it takes too long to screw around with discs and wait for games to load."

His former employer is "living in a naive dream-world", he adds.

Microsoft is under fire from all sides in recent months following reports that it plans to ban used games for the Xbox 720.  Other reports have indicated that developers have privately indicated that Sony Corp.'s (TYO:6758) PlayStation 4 is slightly more powerful than the Xbox 720 and is much easier to develop for.

New rivals may soon be emerging, too.  Valve is working on a new console dubbed "Steam Box", which will plug into its popular game distribution network.  And Apple has reportedly considered jumping into the console fray with a more powerful set-top box.

Source: I Like Code



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Sounds like....
By Cheesew1z69 on 2/13/2013 6:02:47 PM , Rating: 3
Someone is butthurt...




RE: Sounds like....
By Totally on 2/13/2013 6:07:15 PM , Rating: 1
Not butthurt just stating his opinions. I rather like the fact the microf has a high barrier for entry hopefully the marketplace is flooded with unispired indie clones of something like the android marketplace is.


RE: Sounds like....
By Cheesew1z69 on 2/13/2013 6:13:12 PM , Rating: 2
And you know it's "just his opinion" how? Perhaps he was fired and is trying to cause trouble. That would be butthurt...


RE: Sounds like....
By othercents on 2/14/2013 8:10:53 AM , Rating: 4
Yeah he got his butthurt....

PLUS, why would I pay for a high end console and play dumb kiddy games that took $100 and 24hrs worth of programing to make? It would probably only take me 1hr to complete the game. Total waste of time.


RE: Sounds like....
By StevoLincolnite on 2/14/2013 10:41:09 PM , Rating: 3
They also expect you to pay money for such a game.

I'm all for indie developers, but when you get these sub-par boring clones you can finish within the hour... I'm glad they aren't on the consoles.
If I am interested I'll grab it on the PC.


RE: Sounds like....
By gladiatorua on 2/15/2013 4:39:12 AM , Rating: 4
Console? High-end? Really?

That's why things like Minecraft, Terraria and whole bunch of other good indie games appear on PC and then might get ported to console. And about 1hr games... Journey is less than 2hrs, a lot of AAA stuff can be 3-4 hours. Time to complete is not really a factor.

Barrier of entry to console game development is HUGE. Lots of money and lots of hurdles before actual game development.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/18irx0/the_...

And with amount of high quality indie games in recent years the decision to keep COMPLETELY closed is stupid.


RE: Sounds like....
By maugrimtr on 2/14/2013 9:06:12 AM , Rating: 3
And you know it's not his opinion because...

Two can play at not providing any evidence or a quoted article to back up their asinine statements. The criticism makes a lot of sense - everyone now expects the new Xbox to be weaker than a PS4 so even Sony have already outmaneuvered Microsoft into being a competitive option. Sony!


RE: Sounds like....
By Cheesew1z69 on 2/14/2013 10:16:32 AM , Rating: 1
I never explicitly stated it was opinion or not... but to assume it's just an opinion...


RE: Sounds like....
By SPOOFE on 2/13/2013 6:48:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
just stating his opinions

Is he? Is he JUST stating his opinions? Or is he stating opinions that he thinks would get him in good with some other company, say, Apple perhaps?

If he really felt so strongly about this, you'd think he'd have voiced this, like... ten years ago.

No, he's not JUST stating his opinions. He's trying to use drama for attention.


RE: Sounds like....
By Mitch101 on 2/13/2013 9:39:09 PM , Rating: 3
Maybe someone should inform him about the Pippin.

Apple Bandai Pippin
http://www.technobuffalo.com/2010/05/13/apples-fai...


RE: Sounds like....
By SPOOFE on 2/13/2013 9:48:14 PM , Rating: 4
I wasn't gonna say anything because it was from the post-Jobs/pre-Jobs Again era, when Apple was... well, it was just sad in general.


RE: Sounds like....
By Mitch101 on 2/13/2013 10:24:25 PM , Rating: 3
Aren’t we in a post-Jobs era again? Not trying to be disrespectful but Tim Cooke lacks the innovation and vision of Steve.

Apple would come to the table with ZERO exclusives against 3 power houses of consoles Nintendo, Microsoft, and PlayStation with established fan bases. You also have a steam console on the way and items like Ouya/Android based console coming. There is another Android based console soon but I don’t recall the name. I just don’t see how Apple could win enough market share there to pursue it. Apple TV is not exactly a win.


RE: Sounds like....
By SPOOFE on 2/13/2013 10:40:28 PM , Rating: 2
True, but Apple still has plenty of momentum and a more clearly defined... personality?... now than when Jobs first left the company.

The big difference is that Apple Then was just another computer company, totally geeky, totally uncool. Now it's practically the poster child for hip. I suspect they could put out an iConsole in the form of a screenless iPod with HDMI for $200 and it would sell, even without anything new or special in the way of gaming. I wouldn't like it m'self, but I bet it would sell in not-insubstantial volume.

I don't think Apple WOULD do that, because I think they'd want to dominate any market they entered at this point (and with their cash reserves, there's no reason they can't blitz the crap out of the established players).


RE: Sounds like....
By polishvendetta on 2/14/2013 8:32:57 AM , Rating: 2
I could see Apple bringing out a livingroom mediaplayer that also played iOS games, and that would sell. But coming out with a true AAA gaming console would be suicide.

Games are slowly being all writen with an x86 arcitecture in mind. MS has been doing it for years, and people criticized Sony for not doing it with the PS3. The big game makers dont want to create games in a handfull of languages when they can make it in 1 or 2 and get 80-90% of their sales.

Apple will never make anything that relies on x86.


RE: Sounds like....
By maugrimtr on 2/14/2013 9:14:40 AM , Rating: 2
You mean, other than Mac OS? Apple make a LOT that relies on x86. Learn your facts!


RE: Sounds like....
By NellyFromMA on 2/14/2013 4:13:04 PM , Rating: 2
A) Hasn't Apple actually lost some of its personality in the post-Jobs era? It's apologizing for things now even.

B) Totaly right on Apple's dominant position and that in theory it can enter markets and liekly outspend competitors into oblivion. however, that was Microsoft too. What went wrong there? They entered too many markets and outspent competitors without necessarily finishing the job in the prior market.

I wouldn't be surprised if the secret to bumping down Apple is to get them to over-engage similarly.


RE: Sounds like....
By Yeah on 2/15/2013 2:17:39 PM , Rating: 2
All Apple has to do to get in the game is bring back a great game ... Like Time Splitters .. from ps or THIEF .. from the PC .. And they can call it thier exclusive comeback game and be ' in it '


RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/13/2013 7:28:52 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I rather like the fact the microf has a high barrier for entry


The current renaissance of high quality indie games is on the backs of two platforms that are open and friendly to third parties, iOS and Steam. Both provide an easy way for small but talented teams to publish their software cheaply and efficiently and get it out there. iOS is more open in comparison, but that is only because Valve has much fewer resources to evaluate and approve software. Valve is trying to fix this with the new "Greenlight" program where the community helps to approve games. Both are a huge plus for third party developers.

By comparison, the XBox 360 is a very closed ecosystem, as are Nintendo's and Sony's platforms. It is an outdated way of thinking.

I can't think of any reason to argue with this:

quote:
Why can’t I write a game for xBox tomorrow using $100 worth of tools and my existing Windows laptop and test it on my home xBox or at my friends’ houses? Why can’t I then distribute it digitally in a decent online store, give up a 30% cut and strike it rich if it’s a great game, like I can for Android, for iPhone, or for iPad?


Gabe Newell said the exact same thing two weeks ago, as well as the controversial notion that the AppleTV would dominate if it ever opened up for applications and games. Its a huge sentiment among developers. People are making fortunes developing high quality software for mobile platforms. Transitioning to another iOS device like the AppleTV would be quick and easy for them.

Going beyond indies, even mainstream games like The Walking Dead made over a quarter of its revenue on iOS. Epic has made tens of millions selling games on the platform, and so on.

Profitable and developer friendly with a much lower barrier of entry, why shouldn't more developers want similar things from consoles?


RE: Sounds like....
By StanO360 on 2/13/2013 7:37:52 PM , Rating: 2
First of all you realize that almost NO one makes money making games for iOS and Android, certainly very few "indies".

Plus, I don't think the entry cost to develop for XBox is high, it's just that no one cares.

This guy says this when the biggest entertainment releases in history are on high end gaming systems (Halo is at almost 8 million units on Xbox).

They succeed vs. Valve and PC Gaming because the games are complex and vivid but the systems are simple to use and operate. It's taken Xbox two generations to tie Playstation. But honestly, without the RROD, they would have crushed them.


RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/13/2013 7:50:57 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
First of all you realize that almost NO one makes money making games for iOS and Android, certainly very few "indies".


App Store revenue was about 10 billion last year, 70% of which went to developers. This doesn't include additional income from advertising or microtransations.

Obviously not everybody is making money on the app store, and many apps are supplements for existing desktop applications or websites. There are also many that are making their livings just doing that. Let's disregard the blockbusters like Plague Inc, Infinity Blade, or companies like Playdek, there are many profitable people and companies that are fully based around and sustained by iOS development.

quote:
Plus, I don't think the entry cost to develop for XBox is high, it's just that no one cares.


Not only is the cost of entry to develop for the XBox crazy high (expensive dev kits, high license fees), it is crazy expensive just to maintain.

There are XBox games that have gone unpatched because the price to patch a game after the first one is $ 40000.

That is insane and completely prohibitive to small developers, and its just the tip of the iceberg.

Don't believe me, here's Tim Schafer of Doublefine talking about it: http://www.hookshotinc.com/interview-schafers-mill...

quote:
“But the indie community is now moving elsewhere; we’re figuring out how to fund and distribute games ourselves, and we’re getting more control over them. Those systems as great as they are, they’re still closed. You have to jump through a lot of hoops, even for important stuff like patching and supporting your game. Those are things we really want to do, but we can’t do it on these systems. I mean, it costs $40,000 to put up a patch – we can’t afford that! Open systems like Steam, that allow us to set our own prices, that’s where it’s at, and doing it completely alone like Minecraft. That’s where people are going.”


The cost to patch a game on developer friendly platforms like Steam or iOS: NOTHING.

Everything about getting games released and maintained on current closed consoles like the XBox is broken. I don't see how it can be defended or excused. Hopefully they fix it with the next generation, making it more inclusive like the Windows Phone/WinRT stores.


RE: Sounds like....
By SPOOFE on 2/13/13, Rating: 0
RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/13/2013 8:58:42 PM , Rating: 4
No, I completely understand why they do it the way they do, it just completely lacks foresight and is done at the expense of developers.

Its a fundamentally poor execution that is stuck in the mid-2000s.

Adjusting the XBox UI, doing more promotion for high quality content, and lowering the barrier for entry are all net positives for developers, and it wouldn't be at the expense of AAA games. Big franchises like CoD or GTA will always sell huge.

Let's look at reality here. Friendly and open distribution platforms like iOS and Steam have more users and are more profitable than Microsoft's XBox division has ever been.

It doesn't take a huge leap of imagination to see that Microsoft's methods are antiquated and from the mid-2000s. They need to catch up with more open and flexible programs, and again, this wouldn't be at the expense of their blockbusters, its one of the main reasons people buy consoles.

The only thing that lacks imagination is staying closed off to additional sources of revenue, the same type of revenue that iOS and Steam make billions from.

If you believe that $40000 patches and expensive mandatory dev kits are an acceptable tradeoff for that additional stream of content and income then I don't know how you help you.


RE: Sounds like....
By SPOOFE on 2/13/13, Rating: 0
RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/13/2013 11:17:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
... Either have no hardware to subsidize or make a sizable profit on the hardware, respectively.


Which is an excuse for inferior developer relations and higher walls of entry how?

Are you arguing that granting easier access and opening up the 360, leading to another new revenue stream, will be a net negative cost compared to limiting access and doing things like charging $40k per patch? Maybe its true, I don't know, but it does nothing to improve the ecosystem of the platform.

quote:
I make no claim about Microsoft's model being outdated, but I think it's important to point out that it predates either of those others you mention.


Certainly, and I stated elsewhere that it is now Microsoft's turn to catch up to other distribution platforms with the upcoming XBox. Hell, they already have the groundwork in place with the Windows Phone and Windows RT "modern UI" app stores (both inspired by the iOS app store and Steam). They would be smart to take that method of developer friendliness and smoother certification over to their next gen consoles.

I will not be surprised if the next generation XBox has this in place, it only makes sense in 2013. If Microsoft does this, are the same people defending their current methods here going to change their minds, or are they going to get angry about it being "too open" for developers?

quote:
You're myopically focused on "indie games", when "indie games" is a shitty revenue stream. To games with $20 million budgets you're talking pennies on the dollar.


Independent developers are a simple case study because they magnify the advantages of platforms like Steam or iOS. Saying that it is a shitty revenue stream is also incorrect, Super Meat Boy which made it huge on other platforms was on the 360 first, and Microsoft completely failed at promoting it.

Forget indies though, the same advantages apply to big name developers as well. EA is one of the largest mobile developers around, Playdek and Days Of Wonder make millions for the board and card games they license, same with id Software and Crytek. The Walking Dead which also came out on PC/Mac/PS3/360 made a quarter of its revenue from iOS, and Bastion made a lot of money on it as well.

Epic Games is about as big a studio as you get these days. They had a Super Metroid style game for the XBox 360 called Shadow Complex. They were going to make a sequel but they cancelled it. You know why? That same team was making way more money developing games for iOS. Epic has gone on record to say that it is the highest ROI for one of their games ever, and this is the studio that made Gears Of War.

To be clear, they cancelled an XBox Live franchise because they were making more off of iOS instead.

Again, the advantages of a platform that is more open and friendly to developers on both the high and low end are obvious. Defending the antiquated way that Microsoft is doing things now seems silly, and part of me is sure that Microsoft is going to make it much simpler for developers like they have with their own WP/RT platforms.

This is all stuff that people like Gabe Newell and John Carmack have gone over in the past. Carmack was one of the first evangelists of the App Store model back in 2008, and he predicted the explosion in high quality indie titles, but whatever, that guy obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. No way the XBox would benefit from that kind of extended ecosystem either... /s


RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/13/2013 11:26:03 PM , Rating: 5
Here's one more example of how this more open model would benefit "big" developers.

Valve developed The Orange Box back in 2007 for PC and 360. The PS3 version was farmed out to another company, so they never intended on supporting it.

Valve's plan was to push out regular updates to Team Fortress 2 the same way on the 360 as they were doing on the PC. Years have gone by and this never happened. The reason is that aside from things like patch fees, Microsoft insisted that Valve charge the customer for all of those updates. Valve considered waiting a year or two and then selling a mega update, but they canned even that idea since TF2 took a life of its own and is now being endlessly updated with new maps and game modes.

That sort of constant improvement and value with minimal intervention is possible on Steam and iOS, all without requiring extra charges to the customer. Developers aren't required to charge for new content if they don't want to.

It would be great if Microsoft did the same in terms of loosening their restrictions, and again I think they may since they've started down that path with WP and RT.


RE: Sounds like....
By SPOOFE on 2/13/13, Rating: 0
RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/14/2013 2:27:52 AM , Rating: 2
Unfounded assumptions? Everything I've said has been sourced from developers and publishers who have been dealing with this for years.

Everything I posted above came from people like Newell and Carmack. Sales figures don't lie either, all of the Epic stuff came straight from things they've said.

Why are you burying your head in the sand after having your posts dismantled, is it that awful to be wrong?


RE: Sounds like....
By SPOOFE on 2/14/2013 4:44:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Unfounded assumptions?

Yup. The first two sentences in and I was already flabbergasted. Since you spew verbiage like a broken sewer pipe, I'll remind you what they were:

"Which is an excuse for inferior developer relations and higher walls of entry how?"

I don't recall making any excuses, or even trying to make excuses, or making any statements about developer relations or "high walls of entry" or what-not. I was quite focused in my comments and you went flying off on some ridiculous tangent, obviously having an argument with the voices in your own head.

"Are you arguing that granting easier access and opening up the 360, leading to another new revenue stream, will be a net negative cost compared to limiting access and doing things like charging $40k per patch?"

Now this is where you totally lost me. No, I'm not arguing that. But that didn't stop you from spreading your cheeks and spraying a goddamn thesis paper out your asshole as if I did.

So yeah, you made up a whole bunch of shit I didn't say and obviously rely on the tactic of Victory By Volume, and I'm not interested. If you think shotgunning is a proper debate tactic, I'm not interested. If you had any interest in an honest discussion, you wouldn't have wasted hundreds of unnecessary words.

And now you're pissed off because your work of genius, which only you and a few of your small-minded dick-lickers appreciate, was just brushed off as the irrelevant ramblings of a moron that they were.

Have a nice day, little boy.


RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/14/2013 6:16:50 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
So yeah, you made up a whole bunch of shit I didn't say


No, I pointed out that software subsidizing hardware is a very poor reason for their method of developer relations. Aside from one thing having nothing with the other, I pointed it out as wrongheaded and outdated thinking. You don't have a defense and now you're very angry.

quote:
If you think shotgunning is a proper debate tactic, I'm not interested.


I'm backing up my points with practical examples that are completely relevant to the discussion at hand. You have nothing to back up your position so all you can do is namecall like a child.

Congrats.


RE: Sounds like....
By Reclaimer77 on 2/14/2013 6:26:51 PM , Rating: 3
SPOOFE I'm amazed at your patience with this guy lol.

Me? I'm just reveling in the irony of DailyTech's biggest proponent of the Apple walled garden and troller of open source, Takin, suddenly pulling a 180 here...


RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/14/2013 8:35:19 PM , Rating: 2
Since when have I trolled open source? I use those technologies every day. Google Chrome is my browser of choice, I use Linux servers, etc. How is being a proponent of the App Store hypocritical?

Again, the "walled garden" iOS ecosystem is one of the most developer friendly distribution platforms on the planet. It is way more open and egalitarian than any of the consoles out there. The main thing keeping Steam from being as fluid are way fewer people working on vetting applications, but it does an excellent job nonetheless.

You assume that iOS being a walled-garden means a less hospitable environment for developers when the complete opposite is the case. They have made it very easy for developers to create and distribute their work to paying customers. All you need is an SDK and a developer license, $100 a year on iOS and $100 per submission on Steam Greenlight.

The problem with your thinking is that "walled gardens" are completely irrelevant to the discussion, you need to get that out of your head.

Consoles are walled gardens just like Steam or iOS. The important difference is that they actively make life harder, not easier, for developers to distribute and update their work.

Developers control the distribution and pricing for updates on iOS/Steam. Microsoft has control over both pricing and updates on XBox, on top of charging $40k for certification on things as simple as maintenance patches.

Its all about process, not the structure (open vs walled garden) itself. The barriers of entry and degrees of restrictions are on completely different levels, that's what's important.

There are no 180s, inconsistencies, or backpedaling here, just a fundamental lack of understanding on your part formed by extreme bias.


RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/14/2013 9:18:28 PM , Rating: 2
To be totally clear:

- Whether something is a walled garden or not is completely irrelevant to whether a platform is hospitable to developers or publishers. Policies are what actually matter.

- Closed walled gardens like Steam or iOS that allow for unrestricted updates and give control of pricing to the developer are good things. It allows for better content and more value for the customer. The recent trend of continual free content updates on Steam/iOS is proof of this.

- Closed walled gardens like current game consoles aren't hostile because they are closed. There is nothing inherently bad about walled gardens. They are hostile because of their policies.

- Consoles have just as much potential to be as hospitible as Steam/iOS by easing restrictions and giving more control over pricing and content updates back to publishers/developers. I believe that Microsoft has the potential to do this now that they're in the App Store business with Windows and Windows Phone.

We'll see if they go that way, I hope they do.


RE: Sounds like....
By Reclaimer77 on 2/14/13, Rating: 0
RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/14/2013 10:47:35 PM , Rating: 1
And again, I believe the odds are good that Microsoft will go down this route with the next generation.

As for the rest of your post, criticizing the current deficiencies of a platform and pointing out where it can improve are now off limits for you? Very strange coming from a guy who spends almost his entire time posting reactionary bile.

I guess Gaben and Tim Schaefer should shut their mouths then...

quote:
Jesus Christ dude, the Xbox launched before the goddamn iPhone existed and all off this "app store" stuff got going. We were walking around with Blackberries in our pockets for fucks sake.


Since its release the XBox added online purchases, movie purchases, music streaming, applications, control via Kinect, and numerous other services. Even DVR functionality was shown at CES years ago, but skipped in favor of selling TV shows/movies, rentals, and going with Hulu/Netflix/LastFM subscriptions instead.

Loosening developer restrictions, something they have direct control over, doesn't seem like very much compared to everything they've done in terms of collaborating with third party service providers.

They actually tried with Xbox Live Indie Games but it was a half-hearted effort, and now Microsoft is discontinuing XNA. Perhaps this is part of their transition to supporting a unified "App Store" style market like they are with WP or WinRT with the next generation, we'll see.

In any case, saying that adding an App Store is difficult just because the XBox launched in 2006 doesn't work. They have added a ridiculous amount of functionality to the XBox since its launch. It is a business decision, not a technological limitation, but one I think they'll reverse on.

quote:
The purpose of the Xbox is to deliver AAA title console games


This again would directly benefit even AAA games. Forget smaller games. The example I gave earlier with TF2 is a perfect case.


RE: Sounds like....
By Reclaimer77 on 2/15/2013 8:14:07 AM , Rating: 2
Well obviously Microsoft is planning serious Windows Phone and Windows 8/RT integration into the next Xbox. They've been talking about "integration" for years now.

The current 360 is practically at the end of it's life. I just do NOT understand why you keep beating this dead horse. Why put forth the effort on it now, when they're obviously working hard on the next "big thing" for the 720?

quote:
As for the rest of your post, criticizing the current deficiencies of a platform and pointing out where it can improve are now off limits for you?


No but the way you're doing it is kind of..douchy. Again, with hindsight we could do this about anything. Hell I could take your talking point and template here, and make iOS and the Apple Store seem like the worst thing ever by blowing my nitpicks out of proportion. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate that at all.


RE: Sounds like....
By mbungle87 on 2/14/2013 2:28:42 AM , Rating: 2
y u so mad, tho?


RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/14/2013 2:36:09 AM , Rating: 2
He's taken his ball and gone home


RE: Sounds like....
By Cheesew1z69 on 2/14/2013 8:02:45 AM , Rating: 1
He's the type who has to be right all the time....

One word, troll.


RE: Sounds like....
By Reclaimer77 on 2/13/2013 11:33:15 PM , Rating: 2
Takin how does it feel to be the smartest guy on the planet? I really wish I knew.

No, seriously. Hindsight much? The Xbox IS something that was executed in the mid- 2000's. Hello?

I can't believe what I'm reading. You're taking Microsoft to task because they aren't radically altering an ecosystem for a console that's pushing a decade old at this point. Seriously??

Sure they could do things better, but your style of armchair quarterbacking is hardly blessing us with insight into how a massive organization like Microsoft operates.

And comparing iOS to the Xbox...just...really?? *baffle*


RE: Sounds like....
By SPOOFE on 2/13/13, Rating: 0
RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/14/2013 2:34:44 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
The Xbox IS something that was executed in the mid- 2000's. Hello?


It is also a flexible platform that has had numerous OS revisions over the years. Keeping the platform so closed isn't a technical limitation, it is a business one that they have been very slow to change course on.

Obviously it isn't a thing that changes overnight, but it is something that they've had years to make adjustments on. They didn't budge when Valve asked for looser restrictions on updates for their games, and this was five years ago. Patch and update restrictions have been one of the biggest developer negatives against the platform, its one reason why the mid-tier/indie library on the PS3 is better.

Again, I hope that the next XBox is a more open platform for developers. I see no reason why it shouldn't be given that MS now has similarly run (and open) app stores for Windows Phone and WinRT.


RE: Sounds like....
By Wererat on 2/14/2013 10:54:49 AM , Rating: 2
Please reread your own posts: M$ is clueless because they haven't changed their model to an 'app store' style model, yet they just did (for Windows Phone/RT/8).

Wanna put odds on whether the next Xbox will follow this trend?

For the record, if I were running Xbox 360 work, I wouldn't put the time into changing its game approval model. Too much work and too many existing titles' legal stuff that would need to change. Better to cut a new fresh business model with a new console.


RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/14/2013 6:09:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
'app store' style model, yet they just did (for Windows Phone/RT/8). Wanna put odds on whether the next Xbox will follow this trend?


Please pay attention and read more carefully. I made exactly the same point in multiple posts here.

I believe the odds are high that the next XBox will do the method they're using for Windows Phone and WinRT. The framework is there now, all they need is the will to put it on the XBox. Doing so will be a plus as it opens up a new revenue stream from developers and gives more value and content to the customers.


RE: Sounds like....
By Wererat on 2/15/2013 9:35:35 AM , Rating: 2
I read your prior comments as saying that X360 *should* or *should've* followed the app model and expressing doubt that X720 (or whatever it's called) would do so.

Sounds like we agree, then; good.


RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/14/2013 6:28:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
For the record, if I were running Xbox 360 work, I wouldn't put the time into changing its game approval model. Too much work and too many existing titles' legal stuff that would need to change. Better to cut a new fresh business model with a new console.


"Too much work" hasn't been an excuse for smaller companies like Valve or companies that aren't even in the gaming business like Apple.

Its all about being friendlier to developers, which in turn opens up another revenue stream, more choice for consumers, and a launching pad for talented new developers.

Most of the superstars of today had very humble beginnings from the more "open" platforms of the 1990s (shareware, BBS, etc). The superstar developers of tomorrow are making their name and honing their craft on the more open platforms of today. A platform being "closed" to all but those with the most money is a recent phenomenon that is hopefully short lived.

Why is there so much defense for a methodology from the mid-2000s when other platforms (PC and mobile platforms) have gone so much farther beyond it in the years since? Why do some people here want to keep this backwards status quo?


RE: Sounds like....
By chripuck on 2/15/2013 9:41:42 AM , Rating: 1
I'll jump in this shitstorm...

Personally, I don't want my XBox to be filled with the tripe that's on iOS/Android. Because when EA figures out they can sell a game that makes 1/10th the revenue as CoD, but do it at 1/100th of the price they'll stop making games like CoD.

I don't WANT the big box developers to have the chance to maximize their profits, because it WILL lead to us having less of these big box games and far more candyland, rage of bahatmut, and clash of clans.


RE: Sounds like....
By Cheesew1z69 on 2/13/2013 9:37:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ah, so the problem is you lack imagination.
And a few other things...


RE: Sounds like....
By djdjohnson on 2/14/2013 2:18:57 AM , Rating: 2
But 70% of iOS apps are NEVER downloaded, and 90% of them never make more than $1,000. You've got to partner with someone that will help advertise for you, or get really lucky and get featured by Apple to have even a remote chance of success in the iOS App Store.


RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/14/2013 2:55:41 AM , Rating: 2
So? Success is a risk in any arena, even AAA games. Just look at how Homeland tanked last year, and Devil May Cry and Aliens Colonial Marines are looking to open 2013 as huge bombs.

Either way, success rates of any sort aren't an excuse for platforms to be so closed off and restricted, all that does is restrict choice and progress. It is a completely different thing that is totally beside the point.

Are you saying that being a hostile platform for developers is ok because most products don't do well anyway?


RE: Sounds like....
By maugrimtr on 2/14/2013 9:20:46 AM , Rating: 2
Aliens Colonial is being widely panned by honest reviewers. That's not the usual market risk - it's the risk of selling crap on a market and not realising that people don't like purchasing turds.


RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/14/2013 6:34:37 PM , Rating: 2
Except that most AAA games aren't making back their investment, no matter how good they are. The market risk is there with or without bad reviews, that's just one more kick in the pants.

Its a huge reason why Valve has gone from shipping big expensive games every few years to F2P games that draw regular income over long periods of time, why even huge publishers like EA are doing so much in mobile (it is huge profit with low investment), and why innovation is mostly happening with mid and small size studios (risky design with a huge budget is suicide). Double Fine went from AAA game development to making more smaller games, and they're doing better than ever.

Its all risky, and to say that the low end and indie development carries more risk than other segments is ignoring reality.


RE: Sounds like....
By EnzoFX on 2/13/2013 11:09:07 PM , Rating: 2
Wow your post is nonsense. Valve isnt doing well? Really?


RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/13/2013 11:28:54 PM , Rating: 1
I find it very interesting that the same regulars who ostensibly are for "open" systems like Android are shooting down actual developer open platforms like Steam and iOS because "nobody hates on MS or the XBox".

Its crazy how little thought and consistency they put into their world view.


RE: Sounds like....
By Reclaimer77 on 2/13/13, Rating: 0
RE: Sounds like....
By TakinYourPoints on 2/14/2013 2:24:22 AM , Rating: 2
Easing developer restrictions and allowing for more content on their platform, all of which they still receive a cut on, is a positive thing.

It is positive for consumers and it is positive for content creators. Console makers can't pretend its still 2006, things have moved on since then.


RE: Sounds like....
By StanO360 on 2/13/2013 7:29:09 PM , Rating: 2
he's butthurt


RE: Sounds like....
By nikon133 on 2/14/2013 2:58:11 PM , Rating: 1
I'd say he's butthurt because his opinion - some parts of it, at least - are all but realistic.

"No one plays Xbox games because of load times"? Last time I tried running same games on console and PC, console one would always takes me in the game quicker.

First of, consoles have to load less than 512MB of data to start the game. Even if game runs completely of OD, it is still not much to load. Second, consoles boot much faster than PC. Windows 8 improved on PC startup time dramatically, but still. And then, some PC games nowadays take you through additional steps... like BF3, for example. Run Origin. Origin opens browser. Browser starts game. Game takes forever to connect to the server, regardless of ping. On PS3, you run game, select server within the game and a few seconds later, you are in the game. And voice comm works within your squad by default, without need to create play party before you enter the game.

I'm not saying PC hasn't got excuse for longer load times. Of course game like BF3 has to load much more data than PS3 version, and wait is worth for. I'm just saying if that guy thinks load time is reason people don't play consoles any more, he is clueless. Which makes his opinion irrelevant.


RE: Sounds like....
By invidious on 2/18/2013 10:57:16 AM , Rating: 1
Almost every AAA title released to consoles is an uninspired clone. Luckily for Microsoft and Sony they have managed to convince a generation that churning out generic content for a decade old hardware platform is somehow worth $60.


RE: Sounds like....
By Reclaimer77 on 2/13/13, Rating: 0
RE: Sounds like....
By Samus on 2/13/2013 6:25:59 PM , Rating: 3
Seriously...Apple has a console, it's called Apple TV. It's a joke.


RE: Sounds like....
By tayb on 2/13/2013 7:09:40 PM , Rating: 2
You must have a pretty loose definition of the word console. Apple TV can't play games...


RE: Sounds like....
By Reclaimer77 on 2/13/13, Rating: 0
RE: Sounds like....
By djdjohnson on 2/14/2013 2:22:50 AM , Rating: 3
First, there is no $40 Roku (they start at $50) and to get Angry Birds you have to buy the $100 Roku. Or buy the $80 Roku and spend another $30 for the gaming pack and $5 for the game.


RE: Sounds like....
By Samus on 2/13/2013 11:52:53 PM , Rating: 2
tayb, what I meant is the Apple TV is the closest thing Apple has to a console in that it is a set top box, loosely runs iOS, and plays games albeit very poorly.


RE: Sounds like....
By cyberguyz on 2/14/2013 3:22:29 PM , Rating: 2
Definitiely butthurt.


RE: Sounds like....
By NellyFromMA on 2/14/2013 4:07:33 PM , Rating: 2
It's like, idk 10 years old now... So, no crap? It's served its purpose, maybe even for just long enough to be too long. If you took a PC from 10 years ago and tried to run a game on it, you would be absolutely EFF'ED.

So, in that light, what's his point?


For all of this clown's criticisms,
By Mint on 2/13/2013 6:42:32 PM , Rating: 2
he's pretty thin on advice for what should have been done to promote indie development. More promotion? Why should MS promote low profit, low volume XBLA or XBLIG games over full price games that show off the power of the platform?

That is the big reason indie games never took off on XBox. It's a powerful, dedicated gaming system that you only use when you want a special gaming experience. Indie developers have little chance of producing something that looks as good as AAA titles with multi-million dollar art budgets.

There's nothing XBox could have done about iOS/Android taking over indie development:
1. Smartphones are things we carry around all day, so they have a huge leg up on consoles for people searching for cheap, quick gaming fixes.
2. They don't have gaming as their primary function (poor controls, small screen) so nobody is going to buy $50 games on it.
3. They have limited processing ability, particularly storage space (and Apple limits it to 50MB anyway), so there's no room for expensive art assets or advanced graphics engines

#2 and #3 preclude all but a few big budget titles for Android/iOS, so indie devs don't have to compete with them.

His proclamation of how easy it is to make money on iOS/Android is grossly exaggerated, too. Apple said recently they paid out $6.4B to devs since the iPhone came out, and they own 90% of the app market. That's less than 1/10th of video game sales over that period, and with 100x as many apps. Revenue per app would be miniscule compared to console revenue per game.

There are tens of thousands of mobile indie coders earning next to nothing.




RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By SlyNine on 2/13/2013 6:48:08 PM , Rating: 2
All your reasons are why phones would only have indie games. But doesn't say anything about why the 360 shouldn't have Inde games.

PC has tons of Indie games and it's more expensive and involved, and can be FAR FAR more powerful.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By Reclaimer77 on 2/13/2013 6:53:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But doesn't say anything about why the 360 shouldn't have Inde games.


Because there's NO demand for "Indie" console gaming. Duh? Get a clue!


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By inighthawki on 2/13/2013 10:05:06 PM , Rating: 2
Speak for yourself. I would actually prefer if it had a bunch of indie games.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By chripuck on 2/15/2013 9:44:33 AM , Rating: 2
Congratulations, you've exhibited that not all people are the same.

Next in the series: How statistics cannot be discredited due to a single data point.


By inighthawki on 2/16/2013 4:04:44 PM , Rating: 2
And congratulations yourself, you've proven my point. He is also a single data point, he does not represent everyone.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By SPOOFE on 2/13/2013 7:22:16 PM , Rating: 2
On consoles, indie games have to compete with AAA titles that use lots of art assets that take lots of time to make (textures, models, music, audio).

PC's run the entire gamut from crazy-high-end powerhouses that laugh in the face of Crysis, to wussy integrated graphics that would struggle to run Quake. It is this latter category that makes the PC world ripe for indie games.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By corduroygt on 2/13/2013 8:42:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
On consoles, indie games have to compete with AAA titles that use lots of art assets that take lots of time to make (textures, models, music, audio).

$60 vs $4.99


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By SPOOFE on 2/13/2013 8:45:00 PM , Rating: 2
Gears of War vs. Angry Birds


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By inighthawki on 2/13/2013 10:06:44 PM , Rating: 2
You don't need state of the art graphics to make a good game.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By SPOOFE on 2/13/2013 10:18:45 PM , Rating: 2
Completely true. I still play Super Metroid once every other year or so for that very reason.

But you DO need some liberal application of art assets to justify a $60 price tag, and indie games don't have it.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By inighthawki on 2/13/2013 10:43:29 PM , Rating: 2
But indie games don't need $60 price tags either :)

Also +1 for super metroid, one of my favorite games. I too replay it all the time - maybe once a year myself - along with some other SNES classics :).


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By SPOOFE on 2/13/2013 10:50:20 PM , Rating: 2
Indie games would LOVE $60 price tags, though. It's not a very lucrative business otherwise, outside a handful of outliers.

Me? I don't care too much about fancy-shmancy graphics, especially when the graphical showcases tend to be very disappointing games (I thought Crysis was awful). Heck, currently I'm playing through Planescape: Torment, which has excellent art design, but yikes, those late '90s pre-rendered cutscenes sure are awkward.

However, the majority of the gaming audience associates "high quality" with "cutting edge graphics", so it's unfortunately unavoidable, and it means that indie games probably need to offer up something really, really unique and special if they can't deliver the sheer volume of art assets requisite of today's high-end products.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By corduroygt on 2/14/2013 1:33:28 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Indie games would LOVE $60 price tags, though. It's not a very lucrative business otherwise, outside a handful of outliers.


Indie games have been flourishing with much more modest price tags in the last few years, so I don't know where you get that it's not a lucrative business with tons of new studios opening up and coming up with new games.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By SPOOFE on 2/14/2013 2:23:05 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
with tons of new studios opening up and coming up with new games.

How many people buy Lotto tickets? How many of them WIN? And are those people rich, or poor?

Ruminate, my friend.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By mbungle87 on 2/14/2013 2:32:33 AM , Rating: 2
Meanwhile, big game studios cry about piracy, raise prices, institute draconian DRM mechanisms, and hell, some of them even go bankrupt (THQ). It seems to me 'big gaming' isn't doing so hot lately.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By TakinYourPoints on 2/14/2013 2:50:15 AM , Rating: 2
AAA games are in a huge state of flux right now. The demands of fidelity for next generation games are going to be insane, all while the tools for development haven't been improving at the same rate. Last year I saw a demo of a "next-gen" Star Wars game that would make my i7/GTX 680 PC cry, and it ain't gonna be cheap to make.

More detail = more time = more money.

Gabe Newell described the current climate as both the best and the worst times for gaming. I think its part of the reason why Valve has been moving towards more sustainable models (ie - free-to-play with TF2 and DOTA 2) rather than regularly releasing big expensive single player extravaganzas that people complete in 12 hours max, where most of the money is made in the first month (if its a hit) and then that's it.

It is companies using the F2P model and (gasp) smaller developers that are thriving right now.

There is so much rhetoric here about smaller developers not doing well, but nobody has revealed any proof of that. It is a golden age for that arena, not just in terms of profitability but also in terms of quality.


By chripuck on 2/15/2013 9:52:34 AM , Rating: 2
It is NOT a golden age for indie developers as a whole. As many have pointed out, only a tiny fraction of indie developers actually make money. The barrier of entry is exceptionally low so they're generally only out their time, but regardless the vast majority of developers are not making money.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/04/top_25_app...

Over 50% of revenue goes to 25 developers of which 24 are big name shops. Hardly the "indie devs making out like bandits" narrative you're pushing.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By Mint on 2/13/2013 10:18:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
PC has tons of Indie games and it's more expensive and involved, and can be FAR FAR more powerful.
First of all, there's 1+ billion PC's on the planet, not 76M like the XBox. Secondly, as SPOOFE said, a lot of them have low end hardware and really only run games with limited assets and graphical intensity.

Finally, I seriously doubt the PC indie scene is making much money, which is one of the major gripes of Nat Brown.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By SPOOFE on 2/13/2013 10:45:47 PM , Rating: 2
I did the math down below but I suspect the diehard Apple fanatics didn't like the truth and voted it down, but here it is again in brief:

$9 billion in revenue from Apple's app store
700,000 apps
An average of ~$13,000 per app.

That's before Apple takes its share, before any taxes, and without factoring in having to divide that money among multiple team members. It also ignores the fact that a minority of apps make the bulk of the money, meaning most apps make much less.

So $13,000 is generous. And pathetic. Indie gaming is NOT a good revenue stream. It's great for those small fries looking to become big fish, and good luck to all of 'em, but I think it's patently obvious that this whole to-do over "indie gaming" is completely irrelevant. The money just isn't there.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By ShieTar on 2/14/2013 9:42:48 AM , Rating: 2
$9 billion allows about 90,000 people to make a living. How is that "pathetic"? Why should it matter if those jobs belong to 50 guys working on a big title for a big company, or to some guy doing 20 cheap and simple games by himself?


By SPOOFE on 2/14/2013 4:51:32 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
$9 billion allows about 90,000 people to make a living. How is that "pathetic"?

Because 90,000 people aren't making 700,000 apps. It's money per APP that matters, not money per PERSON. Each app may indeed take multiple people to make.

$13,000 per app. If you're one person making apps, you'd need to make four or five a year to "make a living". And you need to make apps that actually sell; as has been pointed out above, a large number of apps have no DLs at all.

Certainly the equation isn't as simple as the average I'm describing above - a small number of apps make the majority of the money - which just means it's NOWHERE NEAR 90,000 people "making a living". Probably a thousand or so, and that's optimistic.

Ultimately, indie gaming is a lousy revenue stream. That's it. Yet all this indie acolytes are acting like it's some Holy Grail... well, they're only looking at it from their own selfish point of view ("I want more games, damn it, and screw the logistics behind it"). They have some strange fantasy in which "indie games" are some kind of magical solution to the problems that run rampant in any big-money industry, when even a casual glance from an objective point of view would reveal.... no. No it's not.


By ianweck on 2/14/2013 5:53:18 PM , Rating: 2

He said $13,000 per app is pathetic, for the reasons listed below (which he also stated). Don't turn this into a bleeding heart social issue.

quote:
That's before Apple takes its share, before any taxes, and without factoring in having to divide that money among multiple team members. It also ignores the fact that a minority of apps make the bulk of the money, meaning most apps make much less.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By Phoque on 2/13/2013 7:23:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why should MS promote low profit, low volume XBLA or XBLIG games over full price games that show off the power of the platform?


I would think because the power of a platform is not exclusively how much polygons or pixel shading it can do, but also the broad range of people that it appeals to through its indie games. One of the best example I can think of is Limbo, but I'm sure there are many others. Indie games are not necessarily low volume.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By TakinYourPoints on 2/13/2013 7:37:23 PM , Rating: 2
It is also about methods of distribution. The XBox dashboard is an organizational disaster and Microsoft does nothing in terms of promoting anything that isn't a AAA title.

Super Meat Boy is a textbook example. It got released on XBL with promise of promotion for "Summer Of Arcade", and it got thrown under the bus. Microsoft screwed up promoting the game like they promised it would and nobody heard of it.

Steam is the platform that saved the developers. It got put on the front page of the store and it was off. People found out the game was amazing and word of mouth made it a monster smash.

Steam does a great job promoting indie games alongside AAA titles. Something independent but awesome like FTL will be alongside Call Of Duty or whatever the generic shooter of the month is, right on the front page.

The same happens with iOS, they do a great job promoting high quality software through the front page and through curated lists. Plague Inc was a two man project for iOS that happened to be excellent, and it ended up making millionaires out of the developers.

It isn't about hardware capability, that is a ridiculous notion. Its about proper promotion and making games easy to find. The XBox dashboard is such a mess that even navigating your own library is more complicated than it should be. How are people supposed to find other good software in an environment where things are hard to find and are not promoted properly?


By chripuck on 2/15/2013 9:56:55 AM , Rating: 2
You're shining example is Super Meat Boy? That's an indie game that people are really missing out on playing?


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By tayb on 2/13/2013 7:22:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why can’t I write a game for xBox tomorrow using $100 worth of tools and my existing Windows laptop and test it on my home xBox or at my friends’ houses? Why can’t I then distribute it digitally in a decent online store, give up a 30% cut and strike it rich


That's pretty good advice right there, I think.

quote:
His proclamation of how easy it is to make money on iOS/Android is grossly exaggerated, too. Apple said recently they paid out $6.4B to devs since the iPhone came out, and they own 90% of the app market. That's less than 1/10th of video game sales over that period, and with 100x as many apps. Revenue per app would be miniscule compared to console revenue per game.


That $6.4 billion actually only represented 70% of the revenue as Apple keeps 30% of everything generated from the app store. The actual figure is closer to $9.14 billion. But who cares? That's still a ton of money to be made. For a division of Microsoft that is historically red. And it engages new developers who may have great ideas. Every huge gaming studio out there had to start small at some point... and right now they are starting small on iOS/Android. Hopefully they'll eventually move on to bigger things, but maybe by then the "bigger thing" won't be a Microsoft console. I'm pretty sure that's the point he's trying to make.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By SPOOFE on 2/13/13, Rating: 0
RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By tayb on 2/14/2013 9:50:57 AM , Rating: 2
Your math is appalling because you treat all applications equally. Many are not games, many are not built by large development teams, many are provided free by companies with existing products, many are built by single developers in their spare time, etc. How many fart apps are there in the app store? I could build a fart app in a day.

The most pressing question to your illogical conclusion is that if iOS/Android is so unprofitable for developers why are so many developers targeting iOS/Android for their applications? And how are so many people striking it absolutely filthy rich by doing so?


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By SPOOFE on 2/14/2013 4:57:05 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Your math is appalling because you treat all applications equally.

Yeah, lemme just spend several days here crunching the numbers, all for the sake of a comment on Dailytech...

My math was geared to be more FAVORABLE to the indie scene. Predictable. Simple. And even with that pro-indie bias I wove into the numbers, the numbers still look shitty.

quote:
Many are not games, many are not built by large development teams, many are provided free by companies with existing products, many are built by single developers in their spare time, etc. How many fart apps are there in the app store?

So which is it? Are apps a waste of time or are they the Second Coming? Make up your mind, clown.

quote:
The most pressing question to your illogical conclusion is that if iOS/Android is so unprofitable for developers why are so many developers targeting iOS/Android for their applications?

I answered that above, which you would have noticed if your head weren't up your butt: It's good for small fries looking to become big fish. The app store itself is a lousy way of making a living; it serves as a proving ground by which developers can potentially move on to bigger and better things.

Most apps make zilch. A small number make a lot. Hey, that looks like most any other business model on Earth; yet clowns like you are acting like it's some freakishly new thing full of promise and potential.


By chripuck on 2/15/2013 10:00:16 AM , Rating: 2
No joke, people here act like there's a million Angry Birds in the making.

They are MAYBE a few thousand games that have actually made significant amounts of money given the resources involved.

In fact, over 50% of the App Store revenue actually goes to the top 25 developers ALL of which are big developing shops.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/04/top_25_app...


By Mint on 2/13/2013 10:26:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
That's pretty good advice right there, I think.
That doesn't seem much different from XBLIG to me. It's a bit more closed, but so is iOS.

Indie games on XBox have no chance of standing out against AAA titles. iOS is a completely different animal for all the reasons I mentioned above.


RE: For all of this clown's criticisms,
By corduroygt on 2/13/2013 8:41:16 PM , Rating: 2
iOS Apps can be much much larger than 50MB, there are some out there that are more than a GB, even closing on 2GB, so you don't know what you're talking about. The 50MB limit is for downloading over 4G.


By Mint on 2/13/2013 10:02:45 PM , Rating: 2
Fine, take out that parenthesized statement and the rest remains true. Mass market smartphone apps can't use DVD- or BR-sized art assets, so indie devs don't have to worry about giant studio budgets making their game look cheap and empty.


Duh
By dagamer34 on 2/13/2013 6:26:23 PM , Rating: 2
Old Xbox team member calls 8 year old console dumb and slow. Duh?

Honestly, what were you expecting with a device that has as much RAM as a phone did in 2010?




RE: Duh
By FITCamaro on 2/13/2013 6:45:41 PM , Rating: 2
We get a lot better graphics out of that device than we do with phones with 512MB of RAM.


RE: Duh
By TheSlamma on 2/13/2013 9:11:17 PM , Rating: 2
Isn't it amazing people don't see this?


By Arsynic on 2/14/2013 11:11:32 AM , Rating: 2
In what world is a Sony console easier to develop for than the Xbox? Does it even make sense? What developer isn't familiar with AMD GPUs and Direct X?

This is the typical Sony pre-launch FUD where their minions spread hyperbole about Sony's product and disseminate negative rumors about their competitor's product. Microsoft is doing the right thing here by staying quiet. They can do nothing now but over-deliver.

Sony will fall flat on their faces like they did in 2006 when their asses attempted to cash the check that their mouth wrote in 2005.




By jabber on 2/15/2013 11:50:24 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah noticing a lot of Anti-MS FUD going around at the moment.

From what I have read so far BOTH Sony and MS have been thinking about stopping second hand games. I think either would be foolish to do so unless they both agree to do it. Then it would still cause major upset.

Then we get the amazing claim that the PS4 will be so much easier to develop for than the Xbox720. Hang on, is this the same Sony that ignored all the developers for the PS3 development plans and made it a total pig to work on over MS that actively went to the developers and worked with them. Plus the fact that any developer worth their salt will have worked with the DirectX API for years so makes that nugget hard to believe really.


"Apple will kill Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft..."
By xenol on 2/18/2013 2:14:22 PM , Rating: 2
I'm tired of hearing this. Apple has had a mobile platform for at least 5 years now, it didn't make a dent in the DS, the 3DS is a strong platform, the PSP is doing well on its own, and the Vita is picking up steam. Despite the fact that Apple sells more iOS devices and games than its rivals

What makes me think that Apple has a shot at killing anyone in the console market?




By xenol on 2/18/2013 2:15:50 PM , Rating: 2
Needs an edit button but this: " Despite the fact that Apple sells more iOS devices and games than its rivals" should say

Despite the fact that Apple sells more iOS devices and games than its rivals sells hardware or software combined.


What a load of crap.
By datdamonfoo on 2/13/2013 10:58:13 PM , Rating: 1
This guy hasn't worked for Microsoft in over 14 years. Why is his opinion relevant? Sounds like another Apple-biased moron (or is that redundant?)




RE: What a load of crap.
By jabber on 2/15/2013 11:53:30 AM , Rating: 2
Have to admit I thought the same. This is a guy that appears to have left under a cloud at the turn of the century. He's hardly up on current events and wasn't even around for the development of the last machine.

He may as well have said he was the window cleaner at the time.


Hmmmm..
By Daneel_ on 2/13/2013 6:46:13 PM , Rating: 2
This reminds me of the model OUYA is going with.. Why did I back that project again? Because it's a great development model and the hardware/software is all open! $99 hardware seals the deal for me too.




x
By p05esto on 2/14/2013 4:24:33 PM , Rating: 2
If Xbox 720 doesn't allow playing used games or requires the internet to use it then it will be a TOTAL flop. Between this and Windows 8 and I'm seriously losing the faith in MS. All I do is shake my head at them these days.




"If you look at the last five years, if you look at what major innovations have occurred in computing technology, every single one of them came from AMD. Not a single innovation came from Intel." -- AMD CEO Hector Ruiz in 2007














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