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Print 24 comment(s) - last by FITCamaro.. on May 17 at 8:14 AM

Yes, even your precious 911 will be available in hybrid trim

If you're a car enthusiast that has been following happenings at Porsche, you may have noticed that the German automaker is starting to embrace alternative powertrains for its vehicles. The company started off by providing hybrid versions of its Cayenne crossover utility vehicle and its Panamera sports sedan/hatchback/whatchamacallit. The company has even introduced a diesel version of the Cayenne for those that prefer oil burners.
 
Now that Porsche is going full-bore with hybrid technology in the Cayenne and Panamera, it was only a matter of time before the other three members of the family received the same attention. That's right, the Boxster, Cayman, and the iconic 911 will soon be available in hybrid variants. We first heard inklings of a 911 hybrid when the current 991 iteration was still in development.


Porsche 991 911 Turbo S
 
The new hybrid models will feature a module that combines both the electric motor and clutch into a single unit according to World Car Fans. The electric motor is expected to deliver greater than 100 hp, and will be both air- and water-cooled.
 
With all car companies having to find ways to become more fuel efficient thanks to tougher government regulations, the hybridization of performance vehicles was bound to happen sooner rather than later.
 
This news also means that new crossover that will slot under the Cayenne, the Macan, will also be available with a hybrid powertrain. And we can't forget that tech-laden 918 Spyder -- that "hypercar" is rated at a combined 887 hp (608 hp from the V8 engine, 129 hp from the front-mounted electric motor, and 149 hp from the rear-mounted electric motor).
 
Although Porsche has used an immense amount of carbon fiber in order to cut weight from the chassis, all of the hybrid componentry (batteries, two electric motors) means that the 918 Spyder weighs in at a hefty 3,700 lbs without the weight saving, $84,000 Weissach Pack.

Source: World Car Fans



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Don't Care
By Spuke on 5/15/2013 3:06:43 PM , Rating: 2
This doesn't bug me in the least as I wouldn't buy a hybrid Porsche UNLESS it weighed the same as the non-hybrid version. But I'm not a purist either.




RE: Don't Care
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 5/15/2013 3:38:19 PM , Rating: 2
What I'd like to see is a 918 Spyder without all that hybrid **** attached. That would be epic!


RE: Don't Care
By BZDTemp on 5/15/2013 4:04:25 PM , Rating: 3
Nonsense - you want those electric horses.

I mean why would you wanna give up 270 bhp and the torque from 0 rpm to save a few kilograms. Look at the F1 cars or the Audi and Toyota Le Mans cars - they do not have hybrid systems for economy they have them for performance and the economy is just a bonus.


RE: Don't Care
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 5/15/2013 4:17:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I mean why would you wanna give up 270 bhp and the torque from 0 rpm to save a few kilograms.


Uhh...

918 Spyder (Standard) = 3,700 pounds
918 Spyder (Weissach Pack) = 3,620 pounds
918 Spyder minus hybrid stuff = 2,425 pounds (Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
Carrera GT = 3,000 pounds


RE: Don't Care
By lennylim on 5/15/2013 6:27:45 PM , Rating: 2
What would be the difference in performance without the hybrid stuff? I'm guessing your 1200 lbs in weight is from just ripping out the existing batteries and electrical system without replacing it with anything else. Handling would be different as well. I'm only asking out of idle curiosity. While this car is indeed very drool-worthy, it's so far out of my price range it might as well be on a different planet.


RE: Don't Care
By Reclaimer77 on 5/15/13, Rating: 0
RE: Don't Care
By Spuke on 5/16/2013 9:33:41 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Nobody in their right mind thinks there's any positive tradeoff in adding that much weight to what was a nimble sporty machine.
According to Brandon's link, that reviewer thinks the 918 will be the slowest of the supercars. That's definitely NOT a positive.


RE: Don't Care
By BRB29 on 5/16/2013 9:36:21 AM , Rating: 4
That's ludicrous considering this is a foreign import supercar. They can care less about CAFE and taxes at these prices. It will be sold out anyways. This is a tech demonstration like every other super car and it works.

Let me round up the benefits for you

1. Better acceleration. Almost a full sec faster than Carrera GT.

2. Better mpg. This is actually a very good thing depending on the length of the race. Less pit time is critical.

3. More braking. On top of rotors, your electric motors can drive the wheels and stop it at the same time. Less stress on the rotors means more consistent braking performance throughout the race.

4. 4 wheel drive. This implementation of 4 wheel drive seems to put less stress on the drive train overall. It looks like the electric motor will incur less parasitic power loss too.

5. No turbos. Despite what they try to market, turbos does not actually make an engine more efficient. Turbos are popular for power. They are also necessary to escape the EU's stupid engine size tax. Turbos normally need a lower compression and lower A/F ratio. Lower A/F ratio means you are burning more fuel per hp.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-porsche-9...


RE: Don't Care
By Spuke on 5/16/2013 12:15:14 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
That's ludicrous considering this is a foreign import supercar.
He's talking about Porsche's across the board implementation of hybrids. That's CAFE all the way.


RE: Don't Care
By Spuke on 5/16/2013 12:22:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No turbos. Despite what they try to market, turbos does not actually make an engine more efficient. Turbos are popular for power. They are also necessary to escape the EU's stupid engine size tax. Turbos normally need a lower compression and lower A/F ratio. Lower A/F ratio means you are burning more fuel per hp.
Don't sully the market because Ford failed at it. My car gets BETTER fuel economy than my old 2004 Nissan with a 2.5L making 180 hp. I couldn't crack 25 mpg in that car (and that was driving like a grandma...don't even think about having any fun) driving the exact same commute with the exact same driving style. My present car with 2.0L DI turbo gets 28 mpg without even trying and 33 if I drive like a grandma.


RE: Don't Care
By FITCamaro on 5/17/2013 8:09:18 AM , Rating: 3
Turbos absolutely make an engine more efficient. That most people want them for the power they add doesn't change that fact.

Turbos generally require a lower STATIC compression ratio. Under boost, the dynamic compression ratio is obviously far higher. Higher compression = more efficiency.

Turbos save fuel because you get the horsepower of a larger engine with a smaller engine. When cruising you have the efficiency of the actual size of the engine. Obviously under boost fuel efficiency goes down, but you don't care.


RE: Don't Care
By Spuke on 5/15/2013 7:00:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Nonsense - you want those electric horses.
Not at the expense of weight which would negate a good portion of those horses.


RE: Don't Care
By BZDTemp on 5/15/2013 4:07:31 PM , Rating: 2
PS. A 918 without hyrbid/KERS is almost an Carrera GT and that is an epic car for sure, just not as amazing as the 918.


RE: Don't Care
By StevoLincolnite on 5/15/2013 9:57:50 PM , Rating: 2
I wouldn't buy one anyway unless I won the lotto...


RE: Don't Care
By BRB29 on 5/16/2013 9:04:01 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I can't afford it anyway unless I won the lotto...

fixed it for you


Why do you all believe hybrid is bad?
By Dug on 5/15/2013 7:45:56 PM , Rating: 3
Having that much torque at your feet is amazing, how would not want this? 920 peak and no less than 590 ft lbs.
0-62 2.8
0-124 7.9

And you think they are just doing it for environmental reasons? Having electric power to the front and rear wheels gives it incredible acceleration out of corners compared to 800+hp to the rear wheels only.

From driver reviews they don't notice the weight. In fact they say it feels very balanced and exactly the way a mid engine should feel and the best-driving Porsche to date.

Not saying this is the best car, I'm just wondering why so negative with the hybrid.

If you loose the awd and the electric motors you have a 500+hp rear wheel drive porsche. That's already been made.




RE: Why do you all believe hybrid is bad?
By Spuke on 5/16/2013 12:28:35 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
From driver reviews they don't notice the weight. In fact they say it feels very balanced and exactly the way a mid engine should feel and the best-driving Porsche to date.
Of course they won't "feel" the weight and of course it will be very well balanced. Now just imagine how awesome it would be if it weighed 1000 lbs less.


RE: Why do you all believe hybrid is bad?
By BRB29 on 5/16/2013 9:56:38 AM , Rating: 2
then it would have less power and no instant torque.


RE: Why do you all believe hybrid is bad?
By Spuke on 5/16/2013 12:07:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
then it would have less power and no instant torque.
Name a tire that can handle "instant torque"? High hp, non-hybrid/EV cars can't handle high torque at higher rpms, what makes you think putting a ton of torque at idle make tires perform differently? Even F1 cars with basically custom made tires can easily blow them off. As far as power, you really don't think they couldn't get 900 hp without an electric powertrain? What was that you said about technology showcase again?


By FITCamaro on 5/17/2013 8:14:36 AM , Rating: 2
My buddies 454 LSX will be at about 800-900 horsepower once he throws a Procharger on it. Currently gets 22 mpg @ 72 mph cruise with "only" around 550-600 hp at the crank.

No hybrid technology required. Dynoed at 660 hp on the juice with a imperfect tune through an automatic and large stall.

And yeah instant torque sounds great until you think about how tires can handle it. Well. Other than maybe drag slicks. And drag cars also benefit from a completely smooth track with "glue" on it.


they wont sell
By Bubbacub on 5/15/2013 7:06:08 PM , Rating: 2
This is just to get their average co2 emissions down across the range of cars that they sell.
No one in their right mind would get a 911 hybrid.

The cayenne hybrid might sell - but that isn't a proper Porsche anyway.




RE: they wont sell
By lagomorpha on 5/16/2013 7:52:55 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
No one in their right mind would get a 911 hybrid.


A lot of dentists out there, though I guess we all have different definitions of 'right mind'.


RE: they wont sell
By Colin1497 on 5/16/2013 11:34:46 AM , Rating: 2
It's also about US CAFE, which is based on footprint. Basically we tell people that if they're going to drive a small car, it has to get really really good gas mileage, but if they want to drive a bigger car, it's OK if the gas mileage isn't as good. CAFE, as it's been revised, punishes Porsche for making the 911 far more than it does the manufacturers of larger cars that get lower mileage than the 911. When Car and Driver reviewed the CAFE changes, it hit Porsche harder than any manufacturer, even though their fleet mileage wasn't nearly the lowest.


RE: they wont sell
By mellomonk on 5/16/2013 1:13:15 PM , Rating: 2
Ah, but in the coming years Porsche's CAFE numbers will fall under the umbrella of it's corporate parent, Volkswagen AG. That will give them far more leeway then if they had to stand on their own.
They are doing the hybrids for multiple reasons. CAFE, differentiation, technology development. A company with engineering prowess of Porsche is bound to be interested in the challenge of hybrid powertrains and EVs. Porsche exists to do more then sell 911s.


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