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When the Mosquito goes off it causes pain and irritation for teens and children. Adults can't hear it and are unaffected.  (Source: BBC News)

Here's a closeup of an installed mosquito, armored to protect its against its youthful enemies.  (Source: BBC News)
Meanwhile, British politician battles to ban the Mosquito, which is "a weapon against children" according to activists

After his 15-year old daughter was harassed by a gang of youths, British citizen Howard Stapleton resorted to extreme measures.  He invented a device which emitted an ultrasonic pulse, four times a second for up to twenty minutes.  The device's 17-18 kHz high-pitched buzz resembled a mosquito.  While the device was imperceptible to anyone past around the age of 25, to teens and children in caused pain and irritation. 

The device took advantage of the fact that people under 25 have fine hairs in the inner ear, capable of hearing high frequency noise.  Stapleton had realized a time immemorial dream of geezers the world wide -- a young person repellent.

Fast forward fifteen years later and Stapleton, with the help of partner and commercial director Simon Morris, has created an active company Compound Security Systems, which markets the device.  The device, dubbed the Mosquito, has sold very well with over 3,500 locations in the country.  It retails for £500, and thus has made the company approximately £1.75M, or about $3.44M USD in revenue.

The device has sold largely to local officials and law enforcement agencies, who install the device at shops, schools and railway stations to prevent children and teens from congregating at unwanted hours.  Approximately 75 percent of sales, according to Compound Security Systems are to government bodies.  These agencies see the device as a valuable tool to eliminate gang activity.

Now the device is starting to invade the U.S.  In October of 2007 the Richland County Sheriff's Office in South Carolina became the first U.S. organization to deploy the device.  The test deployment included units being placed at the Columbia Mall, a popular youth hangout.  Compound Security Systems provided the test units free of charge to drum up business stateside.  The police Sheriff Leon Lott was ecstatic at the chance to deploy the technology, stating, "We want to be proactive, we want to have this in place before we have problems like New York, and Boston and New Orleans."

But as the device begins to land in the U.S., it is under attack in its homeland -- one English politician took up the fight on the children's behalf, arguing the device infringes on children's rights.  Sir Albert Aynsley-Green, the Children's Commissioner for England appointed to represent the views of the country’s 11 million children, sees the device as a clear infringement on the rights of young people.  He has launched a campaign called "Buzz Off" attacking the use of the device and calling for a nationwide ban on it.

In an interview with the BBC, Sir Aynsley-Green angrily states, "These devices are indiscriminate and target all children and young people, including babies, regardless of whether they are behaving or misbehaving.  The use of measures such as these are simply demonizing children and young people, creating a dangerous and widening divide between the young and the old."

Sir Aynsley-Green's campaign is being applauded by English human rights group Liberty, who lobbied against the device.  Its director, Shami Chakrabarti, strongly opposes the device and calls it a "sonic weapon directed against children and young people".  She raises the thought-provoking point: "What type of society uses a low-level sonic weapon on its children? Imagine the outcry if a device was introduced that caused blanket discomfort to people of one race or gender, rather than to our kids."

Compound Security Systems insists that at 85 decibels the signal is perfectly humane and is no louder than an alarm clock or loud traffic.   They say they are a victim of a smear campaign.

Like any good arms dealer, Compound Security Systems has also found a way to sell weaponry to both sides of the battle.  In an ironic twist, the noise of the Mosquito has also been marketed by Compound Security Systems as a teacher-proof ringtone.  The ringtone, which was the most popular ringtone when it was released in 2006, is extremely popular among youth who can call each other, while their teacher remains completely oblivious to the rings.  Compound Security Systems admits that most of the ringtone sales have been from illegitimate sources. 

Sir Aynsley-Green is also concerned about the ringtones, as he is worried they may pose a disruption to the learning process.

The battle over the Mosquito marks the latest controversy for the British government.  It also marks an interesting new high-tech chapter in Britain's "youth v. adult" mentality, which powerfully influenced rock music and counter-culture movements of the twentieth century. 

And like the rock movement, what starts in Britain quickly invades the U.S., for better or worse.

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I would still be able to hear this
By themadmilkman on 2/19/2008 3:03:00 PM , Rating: 1
I'm 28 years old. I recently had my hearing tested, and 17-18 kHz is still VERY audible to me. Any business that I see employing one of these will instantly be placed on my 'never shop here again' list.




By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 2/19/2008 3:07:17 PM , Rating: 5
I cannot hear the 17 kHz range, but I would still avoid businesses that treat the next generation of their clientelle like rodents. Why am I not surprised it was government agencies that picked it up first?


RE: I would still be able to hear this
By JasonMick (blog) on 2/19/2008 3:12:03 PM , Rating: 3
Its all very 1984/V is For Vendetta-ish. I think employing sonic assaults on any of your citizens is akin to turning water hoses, using attack dogs on them or things of that nature. All indicate signs of governments leaning dangerously towards a totalitarian/nationalist regime where citizen rights are trampled in the name of "protecting the public".

I'm all for police and disrupting gang activity, but any device that hurts law abiding citizens should be banned.


RE: I would still be able to hear this
By jadeskye on 2/19/2008 3:38:35 PM , Rating: 3
i agree. i'm a londoner so i have had to put up with these contraptions (i'm only 21 so i'm affected, rather annoying).

but i've been saying for quite a while now that a government like the one portrayed in V for vendetta is a distinct possibility in britain's future. partiuclarly with how they're monioring our internet traffic to the point where they want to stop us using it if we're potentially downloading illegally.


RE: I would still be able to hear this
By ionoxx on 2/19/2008 3:49:35 PM , Rating: 5
I'm more concerned with the health impacts that these deviced will have. I can hear the 17-18kHz range, and if I do, I'm out for the count with a 2 day migrane.

If these were deployed in my area... I can't imagine the what I would have to do, but they better put more than a little metal cage around it.


RE: I would still be able to hear this
By eye smite on 2/19/2008 6:34:30 PM , Rating: 4
There's kind of a trend in innovation and technology breakthroughs that's been the same for a long time. Lets make it and use it and see what happens. Not trying to belittle anyones accomplishments either. Einstein was kept in the dark on what his discovery would be used for, he was told cheap efficient energy, then they dropped it on japan. Ok that's extreme. How bout DDT used to kill mosquitos, that got into fish that eagles ate that weakened their egg shells so that they had no hatchlings. I'm just saying there's a trend like this going back the last 50 yrs or more and when does someone say stop, have you looked at possible side effects. The migraine is a good example. I guarantee you Sir Buzz Alot didn't think of any of those things when he made this device.


By JoshuaBuss on 2/19/2008 9:00:24 PM , Rating: 2
indeed. the worst part is i don't understand how simply dispersing groups of people discourages unlawful behavior.

if anything, irritating groups of people in places where these are installed seems like an incredibly stupid idea.


By Polynikes on 2/20/2008 12:45:49 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, if I saw one of these, I'd find a way to destroy it. I'm 24, so theoretically I might still be able to hear it, but it wouldn't deter me. I'd find a way.


RE: I would still be able to hear this
By headbox on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: I would still be able to hear this
By JasonMick (blog) on 2/19/2008 3:56:10 PM , Rating: 5
I think your comment borders dangerously on racism/religious intolerance.

I mean immigrants may be the cause of crime increase, but they could be from any part of the world. I think it probably has far more to do with these peoples' poverty then their ethnicity/religion.

Sorry to gripe, I just hate comments like that.


RE: I would still be able to hear this
By Rhaido on 2/19/2008 4:40:56 PM , Rating: 5
1) To all: What is wrong with dispersing loiterers? 85db is enough to drive off but not hurt.
http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.h...

2) To 'headbox': Regarding Sweden's rape increase, link please supporting 300% over 5 years with perps being Muslim.

3) To 'JasonMick': Regarding 'I just hate comments like that.' I know how you feel. Especially when I see someone make a kneejerk reaction statement about poverty as the root of all crime immediately after a poster's rape statistic. So if we add another transfer payment for the have-nots then maybe they can get some and all rape will cease? Am I wrong in my recall that most experts in the field consider sexual assault a crime of power not sex. Perhaps the immigrants' culture/religion creates an attitude that subjugates women and/or promotes violence against women?


By Hydrofirex on 2/19/2008 7:49:27 PM , Rating: 1
1) It's the idea friend. When "loiterers" become those who disagree, or "foreigners", or other undesirables a government might find itself on a slippery slope. Why would you need a measure like this to disperse loiterers anyways? I wasn't aware it was such an uncontrollable problem that we needed such draconian controls to combat it. Is this the new war? The war on anyone anywhere we don't want them to be for any arbitrary reason. But hey, if it theoretically makes you safer who needs to worry about moral/constitutional concerns? Being safe is obviously more important than having rights.

2) Can't argue with you there: I might add I'd like to see any evidence supporting any of those claims. Maybe it's just because I'm in America and used to our history of ignorant reactions to new immigrants. It's always something that those people are doing to our country. They'll destroy the moral fabric, they'll steal our children in the night and tempt our young men to perform unnatural sex acts on each other....

3) Actually you're the only one who said poverty is the root of all crime. It's kind of a statistical and anecdotal fact that less education and less money are positively correlated with higher crime. Remember kiddies: association does not imply causation, but there are some obvious links. Someone who is very poor has little invested interest in society and it's laws (let alone in bettering themselves). This phenomenon can also be seen in liberal college kids who become more conservative as they ascend the economic and social ladder and have more invested in the very status quo they used to balk at. Education in particular tends to lead to less violent crime, less occurrences of STDs, and lower teen pregnancy rates. Not to mention in women tend to have more rights and powers in richer more educated societies.

You can learn about these issues and more in your local community college's entry-level Sociology 101 class! Some thing your hard earned "transfer payments" support.

HfX


RE: I would still be able to hear this
By AGrip on 2/19/08, Rating: 0
RE: I would still be able to hear this
By Ringold on 2/19/2008 6:10:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Since when does being poor act as a catalyst for violent crimes like rape? There are plenty of perfectly law abiding poor people.


I shall provide the following without any political comment on my own part, simple fact:

Parramore is Orlando's least-well off neighborhood.

Parramore has 1% of Orlando's population.

Parramore is the location of 10% of Orlando's violent crime.

Political commentary: You can all whine, moan, and complain about how unfair various things may seem, but some times a frog must simply be called a frog. Some British health minister guy recently told a particular immigrant group in England to stop nailing their cousins because it's leading to birth defects, and people were outraged. Holy cow, sorry for pointing out the obvious! Not to mention, when those babies come out screwed up, is the public that ends up paying their lifetime medical bills. That's just one example.

That said, I wouldn't make such comments myself like the op did without some data to go along with it. It is a fact, however, that Europe has significant problems integrating immigrant groups in to their societies. I cite the riots of France just a couple years ago, for example.


By feraltoad on 2/19/2008 10:48:41 PM , Rating: 2
Nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. People don't like reality when it seems to fly in the face of political correctness, but pretending a problem isn't a problem or reclassifying it isn't the best way to find a solution. Also, saying that behaviour and socioeconomic status/ethnic traits have correlational behaviors is in no way racist. It's just a set of facts, and then we apply value judgements. Correlational relationship do not imply intrinsic nature, but rather a parallel occurence. Who can deny that everyone in certain situations is capable of anything?

Oh, and about that "nailing their cousins" thing? QFT I'm afraid: "Medical research suggests that while British Pakistanis are responsible for 3% of all births, they account for one in three British children born with genetic illnesses."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/art...

Oh and here's a chart about "kissing cousins": http://consang.net/index.php/Global_prevalence

As another poster pointed out these consanguinous relationships are strategies for keeping wealth concentrated to the core family in countries with historically limited resources. Similar to how royal bloodlines arise from the desire to concentrate power.


By beepandbop on 2/19/2008 8:57:02 PM , Rating: 2
Considering that THE riots in 2006 and late 2007 were caused by MUSLIM youths, no I don't think it's racist at all. Not everyone lives in a bubble and believes that "zomg Muslims are teh p3ace!111!1 <3<3<3<3"

That isn't to say I encourage bigotry, because that is an obvious danger, but comments like yours piss me off just as much as vice versa. ;)


By charliee on 2/20/2008 1:19:18 AM , Rating: 2
Title: Saudi Doctor Explains Wife Beating & Subservience in Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg3LO4VYTxw

Title: Saudi Sheik: Women must submit to husband's sexual desires
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwlW9Qq_zEc


RE: I would still be able to hear this
By Myg on 2/19/2008 7:07:45 PM , Rating: 3
I have heard similar stories from my relatives in Sweden, even 4-5 years ago.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, you don't have any proof to show it. But you do bring up an interesting point concerning the "West" and Islam.

The people who carry the banner of "Islam" have always divided the world into Muslims and non-Muslims, and based their decisions off of that. It is convienient having a solely black-and-white measuring stick (if it be worth calling it that), remember the good old days of "bad" guys and "good" guys? (I think I was 8 or 9 then).

Not to mention their view on women and western women in particular is particularly horrible. If the women who are virgins arn't cattle herded into marrying a man who basically uses them for approcreation mainly and fattening their ranks (very tribalistic in purpose), their lives are ended (executed:stoned/hung/shot) for not being a virgin; wether they were raped, abused or made a mistake. So how do you think they will deal with a society full of people who are not?

Anyways, the point of the above is to highlight that in Sweden, a country of abundant promiscuity (I deplore it myself [Spent enough time there to come to the conclusion]). Would it not be too far off to think how easy it would be with someone with a cultural background of the above to commit such crimes more then others? The same way someone with a violent background may hit their wife? They essentially see such a society as disgusting and feel they can do what they wish to it because the society deserves it.

Of course, since the internet just seems to accept statistics and numbers, I know very few of you will bother to think otherwise and just label me as a weirdo. In order to preserve as much as I can, I beg you to become aware of it. Islam is not evil in essence, but it is incompatible with a tolerant society, because it only sees itself as good (see Sharia law [spelling?]).

I digress... I just had an in-depth conversation about this with a friend, and such things bother me.

There are many places around the world to find out about Islam and how they view you (if your an "infidel"). Suggest you check them out, first results I found was here:

http://www.hirhome.com/islam/culture02.htm

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014454.php

Some Straight from the Quran:

"O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard [against evil]" (Sura 9, Verse 123).

"And kill them [unbelievers] wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers" (Sura 2, Verse 191)."

Bit like Scientology's "Open Season" On SP's, except its a matter of being, and less doing; seemingly.

Anyways, back to the regularly scheduled programming...


RE: I would still be able to hear this
By pakigang on 2/20/2008 2:12:01 AM , Rating: 2
Donot talk of things you don't know about, people like to point out thing out of context.

Please download videos from below & InshAllah it might clear off some of you misconception & anyother who might have it here.
http://www.aswatalislam.net/DisplayFilesP.aspx?Tit...


RE: I would still be able to hear this
By Myg on 2/20/2008 8:18:10 AM , Rating: 3
(This is a valid topic, because it concerns most of us, especially in Europe + that response about Sweden)

The way you talk reminds me of something I came across. Mohammad has allowed their followers to Lie concerning matters of Self-preservation/Women and any missions they plan to carry out.

So, how can I trust anything they say, if they have justification to lie; when their mission is convert people to their ways?

To be honest, I am tired of hearing all this stuff about "misconceptions" etc. The fact that there is even any allowance in there for such actions, and clearly stated too, means even if you don't follow it, someone else has easy justification to do so themselves or to convince others to do it also.

---------------------------------------------
Some Views on that:
(The western interpretation)

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/01/understa...

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Index/L/lying.html

http://aussiethule.blogspot.com/2006/02/more-about...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019520.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMc3XMB6ZZg

http://www.muslimfact.com/bm/terror-in-the-name-of...

Which is also interpreted here:
(Islamic Scholar/follower interpretation)

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/26/

http://muslim-responses.com/Islam_on_Lying/Islam_o...

* My apologies, would of added more here, but don't have enough time to do so (google only had 2-3 on the first 2 pages explaining it), you can reply with some; I would be grateful *
---------------------------------------------

If you look at the stuff, they say lying isn't allowed unless in matters of war, bringing peace between people, and to your wife.

To be honest, an Atheist would have a field day at that hypocracy of saying "You CANT LIE, except in x,y and z"; but I am not one.

I would like to point out though that since the world outside of Islam is considered a "war-zone" open to whatever wills of the Muslims. Doesn't that mean they can lie to us in all matters (They can lie in times of war). Not even to mention, their "peaceful religion" perception, which; if they mean peaceful in the sense of converting the world to Islam and then "peace" is acheived: I suppose they wouldn't be lying to themselves at least, or would they? I have seen so many interpretations of Islam, its closer to a political polarisation scheme. Infact, the only way Muslims are able to practice properly is when they are sheltered by a community or a government (closed communities in other countries, or Sharia law). Their "religion" has little room for discernment and lots of room for dominion, which frankly, is in complete contrast to the roots of "The West".

RE:pakigang the Videos.

You ask me to take one interpretation, I thank you for the information, but since there is no "official" source for Islam except the Quran. Interpretations are moot, and literacy of expression can only be taken with Mohammad in mind, who, like above; Chose dominion over discernment. This is quickly shown by him allowing himself more wives then the rest of the lads ( yes, i am jealous... not ;-) )

RE: "Dont talk what you dont know about". I have seen these things for myself, and have discerned that is it wrong. If you don't agree, explain why I am wrong, and I would willing to listen, but all I see is you deferring me to a propaganda page without showing any reason as to why I have "misconceptions". Can you explain it yourself?

I beg you, please don't respond with the bit about Mohammad saying that people will lie about him and his writings, because he, frankly was only a man and open to sin/mistakes/temptation himself. If he was able to lie, and allow his followers to lie about things for the sake of Islam, then surely his writings can be a lie themselves? Even when it claims that other people will lie about it?

The more and more I write, the more I see the inherent problems with "Islam"... Better stop now then :-)

In turn, I would kindly ask you to take your "misinterpretations" elsewhere.

In finishing:

I hope this sheds some light on the possibility of the cultural aspects and visions within Islam towards matters which we find very important and possibly a reason why people are claiming rapes are up in Sweden and reasons for using this device. If there be any truth to that, I am sure its exaggerated tons, but if the conflict of cultures is a factor, it would not be racist, nor prejudiced to point it out; just the truth.


By pakigang on 2/21/2008 2:54:07 AM , Rating: 2
It seem you are only looking at one side of the story & beleiving it to be the thruth. I ask you to look at both side & then make your decisions. You can beleive all you was but it all about these people talking out of context & thats what made these people astray.


By Oregonian2 on 2/19/2008 8:28:38 PM , Rating: 2
You are saying that between 20 and 30 years ago, there were no children born in the U.S. or the U.K.. All those of that age came from foreign lands (and only Muslim lands at that).

I suspect your theory might not hold up to hospital birthing statistics.

Does the sound generator only bother Muslim youths? Not others? If so, this could get serious.


By jtemplin on 2/19/2008 9:17:42 PM , Rating: 5
Who the heck rated this guy up to 5. If someone clicked through to this news article and saw some racist comment like that (if it isn't racist, please show some data?) it reflect on all of us that post here. So show your intolerance to intolerance and rate this ignoramus down.


RE: I would still be able to hear this
By B3an on 2/20/2008 4:09:44 AM , Rating: 2
You seriously need a reality check if you think anything like V for vendetta is a distinct possibility in Britain. I can see it happening in america though with all the war mongering, xenophobes and fear of the unknown.

I get the impression that a lot of people seem to think these devices will always be activated. Which isn't the case. Youths are a big problem in parts of britain, if you're really from London and 21 then you must know how much trouble they can be? You cant honestly say your've never been harassed by a gang of hooded youths? or not seen them causing crime. Something needs to be done and this is a good start.

I sound like a moany old man, but i'm 24 and can easily hear these devices yet i still think they're a good idea.


By FITCamaro on 2/19/2008 3:49:07 PM , Rating: 4
If they were always on I can see your point. But if its only turned on when you want a group of teens to disperse, then no. It could also be a useful device for schools to employ after hours to prevent kids from coming back and vandalizing the school.

I mean if you're not supposed to be somewhere to begin with, you can hardly complain about them taking measures to keep you out. Of course this device seems relatively easy to counter with a decent set of noise canceling headphones.


By wannabemedontu on 2/20/2008 10:26:42 AM , Rating: 2
C'mon people, I could see if this thing was buzzing all day indiscremanantly, but what about the businesses that have to clean up and pay for damage by kids hanging out on there property after hours up to no good, or in front of your house on the street corner at 2am drinking and doing drugs, skate boarding where they shouldn't, fighting, whatever. You really thing people or business owners don't have a right to prevent that? This country is getting stupid protecting these disrespectful "i'll do what I want where and when I want" thinking kids, just gives the respectful law abiding kids a bad rep. Apparantly, none of you has received a bill to fix damage from these loitering punks, or has to have there family wade through a gang of young punks just to get home. No one should have a right to break the law or just be a jerk on your property, period.


By dever on 2/19/2008 3:24:41 PM , Rating: 3
I see no problem with private companies using it, as long as it isn't disruptive outside of their property lines. If it's their property, let them play any type of noise they want. It may very well drive away business, so it would be a gamble on their part. It's not unlike a trendy store playing music that is repugnant to 99% of people over 40.

However, the idea of government using it on random citizens is repulsive. It's funny how many people seem to think that random government use is ok, but use by private citizens on their own property is not ok. Freedom people, freedom.


By BladeVenom on 2/19/2008 3:15:55 PM , Rating: 2
I'm older than you are and I can still hear it. I listened to an MP3 of it, when the story was first in the news.


By Xodus Maximus on 2/19/2008 3:16:43 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think they are going to put it in the front of the store, so you might never notice, at least I would imagine putting it in the back where its very hard to have full-time security.


By MatthewAC on 2/19/2008 7:16:13 PM , Rating: 2
I'm 15, I don't hang out at malls or any other places.

Any place that installs this is basically saying, hey your 15; want to hear some pain because we're too lazy to kick the other teenagers off our sidewalk?


RE: I would still be able to hear this
By Magnus Dredd on 2/19/2008 9:26:11 PM , Rating: 2
I'm 35 and I listened to an MP3 of this, and I heard it clearly. My parents were unable to.

Personally if I were shopping somewhere and this caused my two month old daughter to go into hysterics I'd blow a fscking gasket. I'd probably threaten the owner with a lawsuit... In the US if you come into a courtroom and the victim is an infant, someone is gonna get screwed....


By tmouse on 2/20/2008 9:24:16 AM , Rating: 2
My guess is the device is NOT used when you want to do business. I believe it is used in school yards and subways late at night. It would be foolish in the extreme to use it any other time. In that context it may have some limited use. It is more than likely totally useless as a repellant for being mugged or intimated by a youth gang and probably would result in MORE severe damage to the user. The trends toward more violence in our youth are not just a made up story; it is an unfortunate fact. I simply am not sure what to do about it. There is seldom a common thread and it has spread across all ethnic and financial boundaries. Maybe it’s just the result of our destruction of any "ideals" or "role models" by those who support "realism" or tear apart all notions of the elements that have traditionally held societies together without providing any alternatives. Like it or not outside of Disney movies all animals are selfish although the nature of the brutality is often missed by most people. While things like family, religion, nationalism (or community) have caused many problems it is also undeniable that they have expounded virtues that quite simply do not exist in nature. Even our “role models” are constantly being torn down or exhibit “values” less than desirable. It seems we are striving to emulate the least common denominator. Lest someone throw up some "examples" of "natural" altruism from Wikipedia or such: I have seen most of them already during my postgraduate training and will flat out tell you the interpretations to date are pure anthropometric nonsense.


By jtemplin on 2/19/2008 9:31:44 PM , Rating: 2
This article reminded me of this really neat backyard technology somebody cooked up.

This project is very interesting; blending motion tracking technology and munitions delivery on the tracked target with fighting the "whippersnappers". Check it out guys!

http://www.waterhobo.com/


For those that want to test themselves
By jajig on 2/19/2008 3:41:23 PM , Rating: 2
http://www.freemosquitoringtones.org

I'm 28 and can get to 19000Khz




RE: For those that want to test themselves
By jajig on 2/19/2008 3:43:08 PM , Rating: 2
After testing myself I now have a ringing in my ears. I hope I don't have to do a Van Gough!


By Hoser McMoose on 2/19/2008 10:06:52 PM , Rating: 2
Same here! Ouch :(

FWIW I'm turning 30 in a few weeks and the 17.4kHz was clearly audible (and VERY annoying!) while I could just barely hear the 18kHz sound, probably wouldn't have noticed if there was some background noise. The 19kHz sound was totally inaudible to me.

Kind of interesting how sharp the cutoff was, though clearly there's some variability and this is not a 'one size fits all' solution. My guess is that there are some 40 year old people that can hear frequencies that some 16 year old people can't.


By Chris Peredun on 2/19/2008 3:57:24 PM , Rating: 2
That's an excellent link for illustrating what these devices will sound like.

17.4KHz is the "highest" I could hear clearly - 18KHz was barely there but still present. Mind you, I also don't have a decibel meter to ensure that my speakers were outputting 85dB; but I'm pretty sure they were below that level.

25, but my hearing loss can be attributed to many years of playing percussion instruments. ;)


RE: For those that want to test themselves
By masher2 (blog) on 2/19/2008 3:58:04 PM , Rating: 2
Those tones aren't accurate. I can hear 18-22 khz, but can't hear the 14-17khz ones.


By Chris Peredun on 2/19/2008 4:06:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Those tones aren't accurate. I can hear 18-22 khz, but can't hear the 14-17khz ones.


Noise-induced hearing loss usually starts from the "inside" of the frequency range, as opposed to age-induced hearing loss which reduces the high-end.

I'd suggest booking a hearing test.


By jajig on 2/19/2008 4:15:48 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe your speakers have poor mid-range. I hear each sound in a gradual stepping until 20Khz when I just get a constant ringing in the ears. My amp seems to say the sound is accurate (don't know how accurate the amp is though).


By kyleb2112 on 2/19/2008 5:17:22 PM , Rating: 2
I generated the same frequencies in Adobe Audition and they matched. That's probably how they were created in the first place.

I'm 39 and can hear like a 24 year old! Just wish I recovered from soreness like one.


By Durrr on 2/19/2008 5:29:52 PM , Rating: 2
I'm in the Navy, and I have hearing loss of about 15% associated with the frequency of the motors of the pumps I stand watch near all the time. However, my hearing is intact above and below those frequencies.


By JoshuaBuss on 2/19/2008 8:55:54 PM , Rating: 2
they're good. i can hear 'em all except for the last one.


By Darkskypoet on 2/19/2008 11:18:52 PM , Rating: 2
I can hear them all, and a few of them are damn annoying... It's like hearing a crt from across the room, and hunting it down cause it's bugging me. However, can't be sure that my speakers are reproducing them properly. Damn still bugging my right ear. Not the super high ones either... more in the 16-17-18khz range.


By SoCalBoomer on 2/20/2008 1:13:41 PM , Rating: 2
Masher - it has to do with how you lose hearing. You lose hearing by damaging the fine hairs (cilia) that vibrate in response to various frequencies.

Age related hearing loss does tend to start at the top (most sensitive) and work downwards (longer, more resilient, less sensitive to damage).

However, if you have abused your ears (as most of us have) then you likely have damaged the cilia that respond to certain frequency ranges - which would explain "holes" in your hearing.

I have several "holes" in my hearing corresponding to working with heavy machinery (stupid me as a teen thinking I'd never lose my hearing) and then working concerts (again, stupid me. . .) with little to no hearing protection (did I say I was stupid? sigh)


RE: For those that want to test themselves
By TallCoolOne on 2/19/2008 9:22:28 PM , Rating: 2
I listened to loud music in my youth, am now 37 years old, and can still hear all of these tones. Are they really accurate?


By AlexandertheBlue on 2/20/2008 11:35:35 AM , Rating: 2
I found I had to download them to get accurate play back. If I hit the sample button I heard everything, though the pitch of some tones seemed paradoxically low. After downloading, I could only detect the tones from 15 kHz and down.


By Chris Peredun on 2/19/2008 3:12:08 PM , Rating: 5
... a wire cage certainly isn't going to stop a .22LR Mosquito-swatter.




By clovell on 2/19/2008 3:58:25 PM , Rating: 2
I was thinking the same thing. It's all well and good right now for folks to say that they simply won't do business where these things are used, but if it catches on, that'll be hard to do.

And if it causes my infant and toddler discomfort, you can be certain that all options will be on the table. I don't like the idea at all.


By masher2 (blog) on 2/19/2008 4:01:28 PM , Rating: 4
I think you may have missed the part about these being used only during "appropriate hours". A school, shop, or train station isn't going to have these on during the day -- they'll be used primarily at night, when kids aren't supposed to be hanging around outside.


By tmouse on 2/20/2008 8:56:30 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, well that is one stupid remark. That "swatter" will wind you up in jail if you get caught. Also 22's fragment very easily; the chances you will hit a friend, yourself (although you will deserve it) or an innocent bystander are extremely high. Some A@@Hole will probably do it though.


By DASQ on 2/20/2008 1:14:10 PM , Rating: 2
Well if you're stupid enough to just stand below it and shoot, you deserve to get a face full of fragments. It's about as easy as sitting 50 feet away with a $100 rifle and a $20 scope.


Unanticipated response?
By mindless1 on 2/19/2008 4:04:28 PM , Rating: 3
In theory I'm too old to hear this now, but was a bit of a rebel in my youth and if young today I suspect I'd just go back with a rope and hook (better weaponry if needed) and rip it down. Cameras around? They'd be downed first.




RE: Unanticipated response?
By pauluskc on 2/19/2008 4:11:32 PM , Rating: 2
exactly.


RE: Unanticipated response?
By pauluskc on 2/19/2008 4:19:05 PM , Rating: 2
especially since this wonderful article is on the internet. unless censorship is enabled by this device too, educated youth will prevail!!


RE: Unanticipated response?
By jtemplin on 2/19/2008 9:28:12 PM , Rating: 2
Yea it would be a sort of trophy to reward the challenge of wresting the Mosquito from its cage.


So...
By Xodus Maximus on 2/19/2008 3:13:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
a dangerous and widening divide between the young and the old


Nice argument, I believe it came from the book "1001 random babbles to prove a moot point". At least he didn't use the phrase "I have a dream! That one day young and old will be united...".

This device is a fantastic idea, I'm going to suggest it to the place I park my car, whenever I pull in there are always children playing and I'm always afraid I might run one over one of these days.




RE: So...
By 1337cookie on 2/19/2008 3:24:11 PM , Rating: 2
Lets put all old people into the respectful law-abiding category and all young people into rebelious criminals category.
I hope a teenager stabs you.


RE: So...
By Steve Guilliot on 2/19/2008 3:58:32 PM , Rating: 4
Now now, that talk is just widening the divide between young and old. Besides, with these devices blaring, you won't hear that NAMBLA gentleman sneaking up behind ...

That whole "stab" thing pokes both ways.


In my day...
By Omega215D on 2/19/2008 4:02:37 PM , Rating: 4
we used powerful hoses to keep them teenagers away, in fact I... Hey get off my lawn you durn kids!




I want one.
By OxBow on 2/19/2008 4:35:41 PM , Rating: 2
I checked the mosquito ringtones page and couldn't hear anything over 10hz. Then again, I am an old fuddy duddy.

This would be usefull in the car. A little button next to window switches that would set this off in the back seat to get the kids attention. Better than screaming "Don't make me come back there!"

Heck, I can think of all sorts of uses for this. Embedded it into M rated video games or R rated movies. Enable this on your TV's v-chip so that shows that you want blocked pop this out.

Do they make this in a portable form? Something that I can carry around and irritate my kids with. That would be great. They start acting up in a restaurant or a store and pow. No making a scene or public berrating them. Not to mention, when other kids got in trouble, they would get to share the burden. The boon this would be for shrinks when all these kids grew up would be immeasurable.




RE: I want one.
By iSOBigD on 2/19/2008 10:14:13 PM , Rating: 2
This "Mosquito" is just a rip-off. You can play the high-frequency sound on ANYTHING. It is not worth 500 pounds - in fact, it's not worth ONE pound. You can play this sound on any device and annoy young people whenever you want. Record the repeating sound on a CD and just play it on some speakers...it could be in your car, in your store, etc.

Anyway, I think there's nothing wrong with this as long as it targets criminals. If a cop has 20 young gang members attacking him and all it takes is a sound to stop all of them, isn't that better than the cop shooting them all? If it's used to keep young people out of adult stores or out of places they simply shouldn't be in, then what's the problem? They can make the sound annoy only people under 25, under 20, 15, etc.


Excuse me...
By xavier78 on 2/19/2008 5:04:09 PM , Rating: 2
But I'm 29...about to turn 30 and I can hear that range PERFECTLY! If I saw one of those, I would consider it a threat to my health and well being, so under parts of the constitution and BOR...I would most likely destroy it.




RE: Excuse me...
By mollick2 on 2/19/2008 5:13:24 PM , Rating: 2
the bill of rights is apart of the constitution. all it is, is a compilation of the first 10 amendments to the constitution.

but unfortunately destroying it would be vandlism only promoting the devices original use, even though you are not of the targeted audience.


Oh God...
By Alias1431 on 2/20/2008 3:24:02 AM , Rating: 2
Let the dog barking begin.




RE: Oh God...
By Fluppeteer on 2/20/2008 7:14:32 AM , Rating: 2
Quite. A friend of the family has an "ultrasonic" can scarer
that she can't hear, and I end up clapping my hands over my
ears whenever I approach her lawn. (I'm 33, from the UK, and
ashamed to have any geographical association with this thing.)

Didn't they find that playing Barry Manilow was just as
effective at dispersing teenagers? Yes, I'd find that taste
in music offensive as well, but it's easier to blot this out
when you're trying to go shopping than a pseudo-ultrasonic
noise. My understanding is that this is supposed to change
where people choose to hang out, not necessarily make it
impossible for them to go there at all; I'm sure the average
shopping mall is quite happy to take their money, so long as
they don't lurk.

Mind you, I find several recent chart tracks have a very
high pitched note in the background, that can get uncomfortable.
I have to wonder whether everyone involved in production can
hear it. I've not found one that appears to be spelling out a
message to teenagers in morse code, fortunately.


This is awesome!
By mguilicutty on 2/20/2008 12:23:05 AM , Rating: 3
I am building one of these right now. Only I'm aiming for at least 110db, to be triggered by tones under 250Hz that are over 90db. I'm mounting it to my truck. Now when those damn kids with their bass cranked up so loud I can't hear my own radio pull up next to me I'll have an invisible weapon. I'll test it this week. In V2 I'll have to incorporate source detection and aiming since high frequencies are highly directional. This is certainly better than the time I got out of my car at a stop light and ripped all the cables out of the amps of the Jeep in front of me. I was pretty sure I was going to die for doing that but, meh, I had a headache.




By masher2 (blog) on 2/19/2008 3:15:08 PM , Rating: 2
n/t




By nbachman on 2/19/2008 3:46:15 PM , Rating: 2
Can I get a handheld version to zap those punk kids whenever I feel like it?




It could be worse...
By i3arracuda on 2/19/2008 3:52:33 PM , Rating: 2
...it could smell like mothballs.




Silliness
By lamestlamer on 2/19/2008 3:56:10 PM , Rating: 2
It's becoming typical for the British to ban a device or an idea instead of address a problem.

The legality of the device should not be in question: it is not loud enough to violate noise code. The practicality of the device is yet to be seen. If businesses and government institutions wish to see if annoying people with good hearing is productive, then let them have a go at it.

If you dislike the device then do your individual duty to discourage its use. If your local institutions implement them, complain to your city council. Also, don't go to businesses that use them. Asking for legislation should always be the last failsafe as any legislation is a restriction on personal freedom.

Personally, I find high frequency monotones fairly uncomfortable, but not so uncomfortable that I'll make a big fuss over their use. Everybody got used to the 16khz hum from CRTs, why can't they get used to the 18khz hum from disgruntled old men.




the real problem with this device
By pauluskc on 2/19/2008 3:57:34 PM , Rating: 2
Just because I can't hear 18kHz, does that mean I should be baraged by it incessantly?

85 dB all day every day would probably have an effect? There doesn't seem to be a correlation to 18kHz vs. 800 Hz causing hearing damage - it's the dB. And these guys want to pump up the noise.

time frame limits of loud noise
http://www.entnet.org/healthinfo/hearing/noise_hea...

tumors
http://www.4hearingloss.com/archives/2006/01/regul...

Men Know the Answer
http://www.askmen.com/fashion/body_and_mind_100/11...
-- 45dB = can't sleep. Imagine 85 dB broadcast in your neighborhood. Children can't sleep. I can't sleep.

Just because we can't hear it, doesn't mean it's not programming us.
http://subconsciousmp3s.com/products.html

I'd hate to live in the good ole boy South Carolina town that's testing out their conveniently "free" devices.




dude
By derwin on 2/19/2008 4:06:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The battle over the Mosquito marks the latest controversy for the British government. It also marks an interesting new high-tech chapter in Britain's "youth v. adult" mentality, which powerfully influenced rock music and counter-culture movements of the twentieth century.


This is a horrible way to end this story. "The latest controversy??" Take it easy on the self interested grandiosities (sp?).

oh,

The rock invasion? Seriously?




no good...
By DeepBlue1975 on 2/19/2008 4:48:57 PM , Rating: 2
I'm 32yo, and can hear all the range through 22khz.
So basically by this new practice I should be punished because I have a good hearing...

DAMN IT, my head just started hurting BADLY "!#$!"#%!"#$%!"$




8th amendment anyone?
By mollick2 on 2/19/2008 5:01:56 PM , Rating: 2
this seems like cruel and unusual punishment to me.

not that the sound actually bothers me. honestly it just sounds like crickets to me, more of an annoyance then painful. but if it is painful to some people whether they are or are not doing anything wrong in my opinion it violates our rights. but then again the constitution holds very little value anymore.




By qwertyz on 2/19/2008 8:47:04 PM , Rating: 2
This is the most stupid thing ever created, this demonstrates how stupid is the society in which we live




hmm
By n7 on 2/19/2008 9:48:54 PM , Rating: 2
I'm 24.

With the volume cranked, i can hear all but the 21-22 KHz ones.

But with the volume at reasonable levels for the higher ones, i can only hear up to 18 KHz, which matches my age according to their listing actually...




f*ck this thing.
By zander55 on 2/19/2008 10:57:28 PM , Rating: 2
i would have exactly zero problems vandalizing these things. probably an easy way to short this thing out without visible damage.

or if not, plug the speaker up with silly string. an appropriate retaliation me thinks.




This is great.
By spc hink on 2/19/2008 11:04:51 PM , Rating: 2
I think this new technology is great and should be utilized more often. For the most part, I hate seeing young punks up to no good hanging around places pushing out paying cutomers. I hate how teenagers feel they are entitled to something more and anything that brings them down a notch is ok with me.




Get over it people
By wannabemedontu on 2/20/2008 9:31:39 AM , Rating: 2
C'mon people, I could see if this thing was buzzing all day indiscremanantly, but what about the businesses that have to clean up and pay for damage by kids hanging out on there property after hours up to no good, or in front of your house on the street corner at 2am drinking and doing drugs, skate boarding where they shouldn't, fighting, whatever. You really thing people or business owners don't have a right to prevent that? This country is getting stupid protecting these disrespectful "i'll do what I want where and when I want" thinking kids, just gives the respectful law abiding kids a bad rep. No one should have a right to break the law or just be a jerk on your property, period.




Old geezer repellant
By Hieyeck on 2/20/2008 10:54:30 AM , Rating: 2
Time to pull out subwoofer and start cranking the amps. Or maybe start putting out the occasional thumps at the brown note :P (yes I know it's a myth, but it'd be pretty funny to see older people who have less bowel control to randomly $h1t their pants)




I see where this could be useful
By spe1491 on 2/20/2008 1:10:11 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe this is something that is going to be constantly on all the time, but I think a lot of you are looking at it like it would be. I picture it as something that would be turned on only after hours - ie late at night when there shouldn't be 'youth' gathering at particular locations.

Thinking back to my own 'youth' - I can think of several businesses in my hometown that would probably love this device. Businesses routinely had to clean up litter left from kids that had hung out in the parking lot overnight, wrappers, cans, bottles - often broken. Some employee had to go out and clean this stuff up. Sometimes there was property damage or theft for the businesses that had items or equipment on display outside.

Now, did all teens from my hometown cause these problems? NO
- but... the teens that gathered at these business lots at 2am usually did...
My hometown is fairly small, there were only a couple officers on duty overnight, so they couldn't be everywhere and I think they got tired of chasing kids out of the parking lots, so having one of these devices set to run say from 10pm to 6 am or so might help to deter or prevent the problems they were having.

Honestly though, I'm not sure if this is still a problem in my hometown, I don't think the 'youth' hangs out like this there anymore, but I'm sure somewhere they still do.




IS IT INVULNERABLE TO...
By thartist on 2/20/2008 1:28:11 PM , Rating: 2
water filled baloons?




I can hear this too
By MagnumMan on 2/20/2008 1:51:54 PM , Rating: 2
I'm 36 and I can hear the 19k tone clearly. I cannot hear the 20k tone, but I have no idea if my speakers and built-in sound are capable of reproducing it properly. I've always had an affinity to Infinity Kappa speakers because they reack up to the 22k range and I always felt the harmonics were just better in those speakers than ones that topped out at 20k.

And it did cause a ringing in my ears that I assume will go away...

Looks like this guy didn't do any good market research before he went and made this awful device.




No Problem
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: No Problem
By DASQ on 2/19/2008 3:09:22 PM , Rating: 2
It's annoying as all hell, I'm 21 and I can hear it just fine. If retail locations started installing them to deter 'unwanted' customers, they'd be losing quite a few 'desirables' as well.


RE: No Problem
By GoodBytes on 2/19/2008 3:11:00 PM , Rating: 2
I actually saw it at work in a Montreal store, the sound is annoying but I can live with it. You get quickly used to it.
Yet people that have no respect for others, should be be exiled for ever out of Earth.


RE: No Problem
By mmntech on 2/19/2008 3:12:08 PM , Rating: 3
A BB gun works just as well, but the police say I'm not supposed to do that anymore. lol

It seems a little harsh and quite frankly silly to use such a device. There are also cases where older people can hear it as another poster mentioned. Kids aren't like dogs or mice. They'll either just ignore the noise or just put their headphones on. I just don't see it as being effective. It's just another rock to keep tigers away. Just another excuse to cut back on proper policing.


RE: No Problem
By Ryanman on 2/19/2008 3:15:55 PM , Rating: 2
Seeing as how you haven't actually HEARD it, I don't think you understand. Every single time some idiot I know has their ringtone of that range go off, the entire class winces and moans. It's not an alarm clock, it's not traffic. It's painful.
No, it's not a high pressure stream of water or a taser but for them to call this "Humane" is total bull. Having to hear that sound for 20 seconds sucks, much less longer at some buisness. It's crowd control, another attempt to rein in where people are and what they're doing and it's sick that the government has made this a policy.
And Kenobi... I'm not in a gang. I'm an upper middle class kid that doesn't loiter and I pay for things I consume. Thanks for generalizing my demographic and talking about something you've never experienced.


RE: No Problem
By 1337cookie on 2/19/2008 3:20:28 PM , Rating: 2
If you play noises in the range of 16khz to 19khz if you can hear it then you can hear it very far away regardless of the volume... I would hate to be walking past and have my ears ripped to shreds by the noise. Im 17 and i have particularily good hearing (selective but good) i can hear into the mid 18khz range and anything over 16khz is very painful. Feels like my ears are going to bleed.


RE: No Problem
By Ryanman on 2/19/2008 3:32:09 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly what I said. At least now I don't seem like a liar.
The fact is that these things are terrible to hear. And everyone who DOES feel like steryotyping a bunch of teenagers, continue while we struggle to understand why the same people who passed the patriot act are willing to put us through pain to keep us away from certain places.


RE: No Problem
By Chris Peredun on 2/19/2008 3:48:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And everyone who DOES feel like steryotyping a bunch of teenagers, continue while we struggle to understand why the same people who passed the patriot act are willing to put us through pain to keep us away from certain places.


Choose from one or all of the following Canned Excuses:

1. You whippersnappers need to be straightened out and we're not allowed to take off our belts and beat you anymore. Get off my lawn!
2. Think of the children. No, not the teenage children - our own younger children, who absolutely won't turn into little hoodlums themselves later in life, because we're going to shelter them from everything bad.
3. It's to stop terrorist gangs. They're taking over the streets of America and knocking apple pies off windowsills. You don't hate apple pie, images of children superimposed over waving flags, and America, do you?

This sarcasm brought to you by a "young punk."


RE: No Problem
By Magnus Dredd on 2/19/2008 9:55:20 PM , Rating: 2
I'm 35...

It's REALLY annoying at low volumes on my laptop. I turned it up to try to get my mom to be able to hear it, and I found it to be nearly unbearable. Anything louder than laptop speakers and it'd actually be painful.

The annoying part was the she proved completely incapable of hearing the noise. My wife can also hear it. She just turned 28.

I was serious about the previous comment.

If you own a business you assault my baby daughter at your own peril.

Business Owners: Unlike the punk kids you want off your lawn, I'm a established adult who happens to be somewhat overprotective of my child. More importantly to you, pissing off my father in law is an even worse idea, He's a CPA whose clients are mostly law firms and medical practices.


"Young lady, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!" -- Homer Simpson











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