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Blu-ray Disc Association claims foul-play over HD DVD attach rate data

Although Sony Corp.’s CEO Howard Stringer is calling the current high-definition format war as mostly a matter of prestige, heads of each respective side are still vehemently on the offensive.

The European HD DVD Promotional Group has revealed figures gathered by independent research firm GfK that show stronger software-to-hardware attach ratio compared to Blu-ray Disc. According to the data reported by Pocket-lint, European HD DVD player owners have already bought an average of 3.8 movies each, compared to 0.6 movies sold per Blu-ray player.

The findings also included a breakdown of attach rate according to country, each showing a positive attach rate in favor of HD DVD:
  • Spain: HD DVD owners have bought an average of 5.7 movies each (14 times the Blu-ray figure of 0.4 per player).
  • Italy: HD DVD owners have bought an average of 4.4 movies each (11 times the Blu-ray figure of 0.4 per player).
  • France: HD DVD owners have bought an average of 5 movies each (over 8 times the Blu-ray figure of 0.6 per player).
  • Benelux: HD DVD owners have bought an average of 2.9 movies each (over 7 times the 0.4 movies bought by Blu-ray owners)
  • Germany: HD DVD owners have bought an average of 2.9 movies each (which is over 4 times the 0.6 movies bought by Blu-ray owners)
  • UK: HD DVD owners have bought an average of 3.7 movies each (which is over 4 times the 0.8 movies bought by Blu-ray owners)
The release of such news has caught the ire of Blu-Ray Disc Association's European Chariman Frank Simonis. Speaking to Tech.co.uk Simonis called the HD DVD Promotional Group’s release a “gross misrepresentation of data.”

“The figures have been severely massaged and that is something you should just not do ... Honest to God, the Blu-ray Disc Association would never do this,” said Simonis. “We've seen so much rubbish come from the HD DVD Group it's unbelievable. When we supply numbers like this, we will always provide access to our source data so that reporters are able to double check the numbers.”

Simonis brings up the point that the HD DVD Promotional Group now includes PlayStation 3 sales in its calculations – something it did not do when announcing hardware sales numbers – skewing the software-to-hardware ratio downwards for Blu-ray Disc. The Blu-ray Disc association claims to have the larger hardware market share when including the PlayStation 3.

“Until now, they have refused to accept that the PS3 is a Blu-ray player because it made their numbers look better. But now it suits them they have included the PS3, which is funny in a way,” Simonis added. “Before the PS3 launched worldwide, BD movies were outselling HD DVD ones by 2-to-1 and now the PS3 is around, BD outsells HD DVD by 3-to1.”

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Errrr yea
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 11/15/2007 8:31:10 AM , Rating: 2
The picture is nice, very nice. Exactly what this whole thing is, a cat fight. On a side note its funny that Sony is now bitching they are including the PS3 when Sony has been doing it forever. Their whole claim to fame was that the PS3 counts and its the cheapest player on the market. Sounds like theyre just bitching because HD DVD decided to use Sony's own metrics and then bank on the attach ratio which has always been dismal.




RE: Errrr yea
By jajig on 11/15/2007 8:38:35 AM , Rating: 5
Sony is saying that HD-DVD doesn't count PS3 when talking about hardware sales, but does count it when working out attach ratio.

quote:
Simonis brings up the point that the HD DVD Promotional Group now includes PlayStation 3 sales in its calculations – something it did not do when announcing hardware sales numbers – skewing the software-to-hardware ratio downwards for Blu-ray Disc.


At least thats how I read it.


RE: Errrr yea
By omnicronx on 11/15/2007 8:48:59 AM , Rating: 4
And thats exactly my point. Sony counts PS3 for player sales, but does not want it to count it with attach rate. The HD-DVD camp is using Sony's Numbers that were released to the public, nothing more than simple division here. Only reason I side with HD-DVD here is that they never included non-standalones, where Sony did, inflating their BD hardware 4 or 5 fold what it should have been.


RE: Errrr yea
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 11/15/2007 8:53:09 AM , Rating: 5
Indeed, I would have to say that Sony is bitching that HD DVD is actually counting the PS3 and that makes them look worse. Rather compare Apples and Oranges, the HD DVD camp decided it could still give Sony a black eye by comparing Apples to Apples. This is Sony wanting their cake and eating it too.


RE: Errrr yea
By jajig on 11/15/2007 8:58:44 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe I'm just an idiot and reading it all wrong but the way I see it Sony wants HD-DVD to count the PS3 as a Bluray player.

quote:
Simonis did, however, welcome the HD DVD camp's decision to include the PS3 as a BD player, and said he hoped that they would continue to do so in the future. He also said that despite the HD DVD Promotion Group's claims, the Blu-ray Disc format is, in actual fact, consistently outselling HD DVD.


RE: Errrr yea
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 11/15/2007 9:11:44 AM , Rating: 2
They are counting it, thats why Sony is all pissy. They weren't before and Sony complained, now they are and Sony is still complaining. Sony is just complaining to complain.


RE: Errrr yea
By Carl B on 11/15/2007 9:37:28 AM , Rating: 2
They're complaining because HD DVD constantly cherry-picks what data they want to use. It's telling that the only time they have included PS3 in with BD players is this instance in which they wanted to highlight attach rates. Why would they even care to highlight that stat, I have no idea... but they did so all the same.

I'm sure if next time it goes to installed player stats, the HD PRG includes the PS3, Sony's complaints will die down; but if they are again excluded from the numbers, I would imagine it would be clear what the problem is in terms of apples-to-apples reporting.

Either way, I think it's perfectly fair for Sony to highlight "forget attach rates, BD is outselling HD over 2:1." Certainly that's a stat that ultimately matters more anyway.


RE: Errrr yea
By PurdueRy on 11/15/2007 9:43:43 AM , Rating: 2
It doesn't matter until it becomes a larger margin of the market. Keep in mind that HDDVD was outselling BR until Feb of this year. In terms of a new format, that isn't exactly a long time. Especially because prices are just now beginning to sway consumers to put their money into the war.

I am confident of neither format's victory. However, the current numbers mean very little. Until we see what your average Joe is buying at his local big box store...then the future format winner will be more clear.


RE: Errrr yea
By Carl B on 11/15/07, Rating: 0
RE: Errrr yea
By PurdueRy on 11/15/2007 9:58:42 AM , Rating: 2
I am interested to see this weeks sales. Last week we had big BR releases. This week is pretty lackluster in terms of releases standing out on either format(ocean's 13 is the big one and that's on both formats). We'll get to see the effect of the clearance of the HD-A2's and see what, if anything, that has done to the numebers.

I do think that if Toshiba doesn't restore the below $200 pricepoint for the A3 for the xmas buying season, they will be shooting themselves in the foot.


RE: Errrr yea
By ChristopherO on 11/15/2007 1:14:47 PM , Rating: 2
See this site: http://www.the-numbers.com/dvd/charts/weekly/thisw...

In its first week, Transformers sold 3 times as many copies as Spiderman 3 (all media including the HD releases).

Last week's sales are going to be huge for Blu, not necessarily because of the releases. If you check Amazon, they've been running a buy-one-get-one (BOGO). I don't know the start and end days, but the Blu Ray camp seems to do this when they need their numbers to look good.

For example, they ran a huge BOGO the week Transformers was going to be released because they didn't want HD DVD to outsell them. Despite the huge sale, the sales ratio was only 51:49 in Blu's favor. Transformers was *that* huge.

Frankly I don't know why anyone cares. All these marketing shills could just go home and the format war would probably unfold in the exact same way. The only benefit is that we wouldn't have to listen to their manure.


RE: Errrr yea
By michal1980 on 11/15/2007 3:02:21 PM , Rating: 2
and yet when the dust settled Spidermand 3 on Blu-ray sold more in week 1 then transfomers did.

and the week after transformers was released on hd-dvd. Blu-ray outsold hd-dvd 71:29.

And if blu-ray is running a gimick in having a buy one get one sale. Then what was toshiba doing when they were selling the A2 player for 99 dollars? (a whole 100 bucks below wholesale costs). That wasn't a gimick?


RE: Errrr yea
By ChristopherO on 11/15/2007 3:30:45 PM , Rating: 3
I couldn't care less who wins. Frankly, I don't think either side will. I'm fine with that, because I'm not an imbecile who is cheering for some other guy to lose his several thousand dollar investment in a "dead" format. And that's exactly what every single fanboy is... Some twit cheering for some other guy to lose money. What decent person does that?

That's also why I ordered a Samsung universal player. I'll order whatever movies I want, and I don't need to care what color the packaging is.

Skewing software sales with a BOGO is fine, but it's evil if they attempt to close-out a discontinued player? The week after Transformers was a BOGO. This week is a BOGO. Frankly, if I were a lame fanboy I'd say something snarky like, "Gee, Blu must be desperate to be giving away so much crap for free!" Both sides say garbage like that and it makes me ill.

Also, there is no evidence that the A2 was sold below manufacturing costs or wholesale. There have been a bunch of liars (aka fanboys) on various sites spouting completely misleading facts without source. These are the same people that stated with certainty WB was going HD exclusive, and Blu exclusive on the same day. No one on either side has a clue.

Frankly I don't trust anyone's figures. The fans are foaming at the mouth like crazed political donors, and the manufacturers are releasing "creative" statistics to suit whatever purpose they need to push any given week.

Seriously, just enjoy the movies and be glad that you can buy them.


RE: Errrr yea
By michal1980 on 11/15/2007 7:00:17 PM , Rating: 1
i live in a state where stores are not allowed to sell items below cost.

walmart could not sell the a2 for below about 189 dollars.


RE: Errrr yea
By ChristopherO on 11/15/2007 7:47:30 PM , Rating: 2
All this proves is that you shouldn't live in Wisconsin since your state government likes tampering with the free market. In the end you get hosed because you have to pay a lot more money for old technology than the rest of the United States.

The sale price in your state says nothing about the manufacturing cost or wholesale cost of the player. Additionally, it doesn't take into account concepts like "VMI" where vendors give a back-end rebate to retailers for selling their products.

In other words, just because your state may have not sold the player for $100, that absolutely no correlation with current manufacturing costs, current wholesale cost, etc. Only the price the retailer paid at the time they acquired the inventory (but not that inventory's current value).

Stop whining about what the other side does to sell their hardware and learn to enjoy your own. Just because hundreds of thousands of other people didn't select your format doesn't make them wrong.


RE: Errrr yea
By omnicronx on 11/15/2007 8:09:12 PM , Rating: 2
Talk about an anti Walmart law...


RE: Errrr yea