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You can also travel from California to the East Coast in under an hour for about $100

Is there anything Elon Musk can't do?

Musk, the CEO of electric vehicle automaker Tesla and space transport company SpaceX, has a new form of transportation in mind that could revolutionize travel: a Hyperloop.

For those who hate the traffic between Los Angeles and San Francisco, or the long cross-country trips from the East Coast to the West Coast, the Hyperloop will come in handy. It's an elevated tube system that would contain car-sized capsules capable of fitting up to six people. Within the enclosed tube, the capsules would travel with a magnetic levitation system for a "friction-less" ride. 

The capsules would travel at about 4,000 MPH, successfully taking passengers from San Francisco to Los Angeles (and vice versa) in about 30 minutes. Traveling from California to the East Coast would take under an hour. 

You're probably thinking that such high-speed travel would be way more expensive than flying by plane or driving by car. According to Yahoo News, using the Hyperloop from California to New York would cost about $100 USD. 

Now you may be thinking that something like this likely won't come to fruition anytime soon. Wrong again. Colorado-based company ET3 has been working on a project called the Evacuated Tube Transport, which works very similarly to the Hyperloop idea.


In fact, ET3 has already drawn up prototypes of a new super highway that could stretch across the U.S. and other countries. It's even planning a 3-mile test by the end of 2013.

With ET3's plans already in motion, and Musk beginning to work on the Hyperloop, it's very possible that a space-like levitation system could become a reality in the coming years.

Back in April of this year, Musk said he was willing to spend more money on widening the 405 freeway between his home in Bel-Air and his SpaceX factory in Hawthorne. He had already spent $50,000 on the project beforehand, but delays and budget overruns have extended the timeframe -- and Musk said he'll throw extra money out there to speed things up. 

Musk is famous for getting things done. He's an underdog figure who took his two private companies (Tesla is no longer private, but SpaceX is) and shot them to the top of their class. For instance, Tesla was approved to receive a $465 million loan from the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) in June 2009, which was to be repaid by 2022. But in May of this year, Musk paid the whole sum back -- nine years early.

Tesla is now rocking the EV industry by beating its goal of building over 400 Model S sedans per week, and is even offering battery swap technology and building Supercharger infrastructure along highways to help EV adoption. He's even fighting for the right to sell his vehicles without the use of auto dealerships

On the SpaceX side of things, Musk built a Dragon cargo capsule that successfully delivered supplies to the International Space Station (ISS) for the first time in May 2012. After that successful trip, SpaceX and NASA signed a $1.6 billion contract that allows SpaceX to complete 12 supply trips to the ISS and back.

In October 2012, SpaceX made its first official supply run as part of that contract. It arrived October 10, and returned three weeks later safely. 

SpaceX is looking to send the first manned Dragon capsule to the ISS somewhere between 2015 and 2017.

Source: Yahoo News



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30 minutes?
By SlickRoenick on 7/12/2013 11:31:21 AM , Rating: 2
I admit, i am somewhat confused. 4000MPH would be going across the US (and then some!) in 60 minutes. How far apart exactly are LA and SF to make a 30 minute trip?




RE: 30 minutes?
By wasteoid on 7/12/2013 11:32:51 AM , Rating: 5
Obviously they are 2000 miles apart.


RE: 30 minutes?
By XZerg on 7/12/2013 11:42:56 AM , Rating: 5
they are about 385miles apart. i am guess there is time allocated for the load, setup, acceleration, travel, deceleration, unload.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Dr. Kenneth Noisewater on 7/12/2013 12:22:01 PM , Rating: 2
Depends on the G loading I would assume.. I don't think you could achieve a speed of 4000 mph with a constant 0.5G acceleration phase and 0.25G deceleration phase in less than about 600 miles, if my wolframalpha-fu is to be believed.


RE: 30 minutes?
By GulWestfale on 7/12/2013 2:16:22 PM , Rating: 5
add 3 hours for TSA checks.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Samus on 7/12/2013 8:45:50 PM , Rating: 2
LMAO. Hopefully this falls under the railway system.

Since it is essentially on a rail and not airborne, aka, can't be used as a weapon to fly into a building or blown up killing hundreds of people, it shouldn't be any different than Amtrak. If it only holds 6 people per capsule, it should be treated like a taxi cab.

Worst case scenario, one crashes from mechanical failure or "terrorism" and if they are spaced apart enough (a few minutes) then the other capsules in queue should be able to emergency-stop safely, and hopefully without spilling your beer.

There will be beer, right?


RE: 30 minutes?
By garidan on 7/13/2013 6:43:56 PM , Rating: 2
At 4000MPH it's more alike a bullet which can travel a long distance if it breaks out of the pipe.


RE: 30 minutes?
By daboom06 on 7/14/2013 8:58:20 PM , Rating: 3
i read somewhere that the things would accelerate at 1G, which would put it at 4000 mph after only 3 minutes. and it'll be 100 miles from its starting position by the 3 minute mark.

a constant horizontal acceleration of 1G will simply make it feel like your feeling of 'up-down' shifts by 45 degrees. with swinging chairs, you could do the acceleration quite comfortably. you'd have to decrease the acceleration around corners, though, to make sure the sum of centripetal and linear acceleration stays at 1G. hah. the radius of curvature would have to be enormous if you're goin 4 kmph. they'll probably make all the tracks straight.


RE: 30 minutes?
By daboom06 on 7/14/2013 9:01:41 PM , Rating: 2
oh, and with a constant 4 kmph during the middle of the trip from la to sf, it'd take only 9 minutes from station to station. so they're not going to go 4 kmph on that trip.


RE: 30 minutes?
By rs2 on 7/14/2013 9:15:36 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
4 kmph


What sort of horrid marriage of the metric and Imperial systems is that?

There's no such thing as 'kmph'. Either adopt metric, or don't.


RE: 30 minutes?
By daboom06 on 7/14/2013 9:34:31 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
There's no such thing as 'kmph'.


there is now. i just said it and people understand it. i'm a graduate student. whatever i can simplify i will.


RE: 30 minutes?
By invidious on 7/15/2013 10:03:09 AM , Rating: 5
Contrary to popular believe amongst graduate students, being a graduate student is not an accomplishment and does not bestow any authority whatsoever.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 7/17/2013 12:30:30 PM , Rating: 2
I'd give you a 6 if I could.


RE: 30 minutes?
By annabelle101 on 7/18/2013 1:50:23 PM , Rating: 1
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RE: 30 minutes?
By Fritzr on 7/14/2013 9:43:09 PM , Rating: 2
I know Kilometers are metric. But since you claim metric does not use the Hour. Perhaps you can tell us what unit of time the metric system uses

(k)ilo(m)eters(p)er(h)our

(He even had the case on each letter correct instead of the K[elvin] that is so common)


RE: 30 minutes?
By boobo on 7/14/2013 10:43:35 PM , Rating: 2
But he clearly wouldn't want to travel at 4 kilometers per hour from coast to coast! I think he just put the space in the wrong place. 4k mph (which is the advertised speed). That way it's not mixing systems because Kilo is only part of the metric system as a prefix, not as a suffix to a number. With the shifted space, it looked like 4 kilomiles.


RE: 30 minutes?
By tamalero on 7/15/2013 3:57:37 AM , Rating: 2
its Km/h not Kmph.


RE: 30 minutes?
By maugrimtr on 7/15/2013 9:26:04 AM , Rating: 3
Sorry to state the obvious, but "kmph" is as valid as any other abbreviation. If you want to be more formal, "km/h" is the official unit symbol under the International System of Units (SI). Substituting the "/" with "p" is just a modification of "mph" which is fine.


RE: 30 minutes?
By wtf - ftw on 7/15/2013 11:13:09 AM , Rating: 3
@rs2 Really??

It's not metric at all. 4K mph (as in 4000 mph)

Okay, he was lazy and inadvertently made it lower case and positioned it next to the mph instead of the 4, but still.

Duh. lol


RE: 30 minutes?
By mattsimis on 7/15/2013 6:14:30 PM , Rating: 3
Took me a min to get what he meant by "kmph" too, but now lolling at the confusion around the Imperial system hiding under a Metric looking abbreviation.

But he is a student so its legit.. :D


RE: 30 minutes?
By rs2 on 7/15/2013 8:25:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's not metric at all.


Yes. That's the point!

He clearly meant it as "4,000 miles per hour". The units being "miles per hour". That's Imperial. And prefixing a unit-type with a 'k' to indicate a factor of 1000 is a feature of the Metric system. Thus 'kmph' in this instance reads as 'kilo-miles per hour' which is exactly an unholy union of Imperial and Metric that has no business existing.

4k mph would be fine, or 4000 mph, or 4000 kph (but that's kilometers per hour, not miles), or 4000 km/h (also kilometers). But '4000 kmph' is grad-school nonsense.


RE: 30 minutes?
By AlfB on 7/17/2013 12:34:14 PM , Rating: 1
You should understand what you are talking about before you question someone that does. Being a student means he understands technical terms and jargon where you obviously do not. The metric system uses scientific unit prefixes. That means that it uses prefixes such as kilo (meaning x1000), milli (x 0.001), centi (x 0.01) etc. But these terms are scientific in origin and just utilized by the metric system. For example power plants are generally sized in MegaWatts, Mega (x 1,000,000). There are many other examples but you should get the picture.

So in this case, being a student helps make him more knowledgeable on the subject than you.


RE: 30 minutes?
By marvdmartian on 7/15/2013 8:09:17 AM , Rating: 2
Yup, 381 miles apart, according to Google maps. So this system would have to average >750mph.

NY City to LA is ~2800 miles, which falls in line with that sort of speed.

My only question on the coast to coast trips? If this thing somehow fails to stop you at the other end, how far will your capsule skip across the water, until it stops?? Could be a cool way to visit Hawaii!! LOL


RE: 30 minutes?
By marvdmartian on 7/15/2013 8:15:57 AM , Rating: 2
I'm thinking someone must have misquoted the hour time for coast to coast, unless they expect to get a LOT more speed, because of the longer distance??

Otherwise, even 4 hours would be fantastic!


RE: 30 minutes?
By Moizy on 7/12/2013 11:46:02 AM , Rating: 2
Your math is correct. However, San Francisco is actually only 382 miles from Los Angeles. So, the question still remains--why does it take 30 minutes to do that trip, yet travelling an extra ~2,400 miles to New York only takes 30 minutes more?


RE: 30 minutes?
By aliasfox on 7/12/2013 12:00:16 PM , Rating: 5
Assume acceleration at 0.2G (1.96 meters/second^2) - this is roughly equivalent to what you experience accelerating onto a highway in any normal car. A fast sports car can accelerate >1G (average) from 0-60 mph.

If one were to accelerate for 3 minutes at that rate, your terminal velocity would be ~800 mph - alternatively, your average speed would be ~400 mph for that duration. Assuming you have to decelerate at the same rate, you will have an average rate of 400mph for 6 minutes, covering about 40 miles in that time.

The remaining distance of ~340 miles will be covered at 800mph, which would take ~25 minutes. This allows for travel between the two cities in 30 mins. It would be possible, though very uncomfortable and energy inefficient, to accelerate faster, or to go directly from acceleration to deceleration.

As for the cross country travel, the system could accelerate at the same rate for 10 minutes and reach a speed of nearly 3000 mph. Ten minutes to accelerate and decelerate, 45 minutes of being able to stand up/move about the cabin.

That also means you will have


RE: 30 minutes?
By testerguy on 7/13/2013 11:24:44 AM , Rating: 2
Not terminal velocity.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Dorkyman on 7/13/2013 1:31:09 PM , Rating: 2
But will they let you use your electronic devices all the time, or only during cruise?


RE: 30 minutes?
By Devilboy1313 on 7/14/2013 7:40:25 PM , Rating: 3
Not if your last name is Baldwin.


RE: 30 minutes?
By mmatis on 7/12/2013 12:53:43 PM , Rating: 4
Obviously there are not as many Highway Patrol on the route across the country.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Dug on 7/12/2013 11:50:31 AM , Rating: 2
It's 380 miles.
It seems you would only need to go 760MPH (a little more for acceleration and braking) to do 30 minutes.

That keeps you from breaking the sound barrier.

4000MPH? Really?


RE: 30 minutes?
By FITCamaro on 7/12/2013 12:13:57 PM , Rating: 5
There won't be any air in the tube so the sound barrier won't be a problem.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Mitch101 on 7/12/2013 12:33:09 PM , Rating: 2
I recall the same thing about a train across the ocean. Putting the train in a vacuum so there is no issue with speed barriers. Most likely not going to happen in my lifetime.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/13/2013 6:35:12 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Most likely not going to happen in my lifetime.


Even if it did, would you take the risk?

People survive car crashes. Even airplane crashes. But I can tell you this; nobody would survive if something went wrong in a vacuum transport tube going 4000MPH over the ocean. Even if you somehow did, you're in the middle of the ocean without a chance of rescue. You'll get hypothermia and die inside of 15 minutes.

Call me a coward, but no, no way. That's putting too much faith in engineering and the mistake-prone man for my tastes.


RE: 30 minutes?
By delphinus100 on 7/14/2013 3:58:45 AM , Rating: 2
Well...you should never go into space either, then.


RE: 30 minutes?
By FITCamaro on 7/15/13, Rating: 0
RE: 30 minutes?
By bigboxes on 7/15/2013 10:24:43 PM , Rating: 2
This is one time you should just be quiet. You don't have to view everything through your bias.


RE: 30 minutes?
By artemicion on 7/17/2013 5:22:29 PM , Rating: 4
Where do you buy your mythical non-union manufactured cars and airplanes????


RE: 30 minutes?
By deksman2 on 7/12/2013 1:27:52 PM , Rating: 3
4000 MPH was doable back in 1974 with the technology we had then (the entire globe could have been covered in mag-lev based technology that uses vacuum in less than 10 years).
The only reason it wasn't implemented then was because we live in a system that doesn't do things from the perspective if something is feasible from a resource/technology point of view, but rather how 'cheap' or 'cost effective' something is (which has nothing to do with resources or technological capability, let alone technical efficiency) - remember, we live in a monetary system, as such, it stifles implementation of new technology until a 'cheap' solution is devised (regardless if we can do it efficiently and abundantly with no damage to the environment).

I would surmise that 4000 MPH would be utilized for larger distances, such as across a nation, continent and the globe.
Lower speeds would be used for smaller distances (but still faster compared to what you'd do via car or an airplane) probably for cities that are relatively close to each other, or across a country.
Variable speeds most likely would come in play here.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Lord 666 on 7/12/2013 1:41:26 PM , Rating: 2
Or could have been made sub-terrain with the nuclear tipped coring drill patented by Los Alamos engineers in the 70's.


RE: 30 minutes?
By FITCamaro on 7/12/2013 6:57:41 PM , Rating: 2
Well when you're ready to live in a tiny apartment and have only the bare necessities of life (as a non-monetary system would require so that everyone was "equal"), let us know.


RE: 30 minutes?
By deksman2 on 7/13/2013 7:52:27 AM , Rating: 2
That's a false assumption and projection.
Humanity has been producing abundance in Human needs and most wants for over 100 years.
Each person on the planet (as in each individual) could have 93 square meters (1000 square feet) at their disposal. Expand that to 2 floors (each being 1000 square feet) and the entire population of Earth as it is today would fit into the area that's just larger than the state of Texas.

Build higher rise buildings with enough space between them, along with houses and you'll occupy approximately 50% of the mentioned area.

We have the technology/resources today to provide a 3x higher living standard to each person on the planet compared to what the richest people currently 'enjoy'.

Its about relevant education of the general population, along with exposure to sustainability, technical efficiency and critical thinking.

There's no reason for anyone to have 'bare minimum basic necessities' in a non-monetary system - actually, when you observe the present reality we live in, over 50% of the globe barely has access to some of the basic necessities and not even all.

Here's what basic necessities are btw:
Clean air and water, quality food (without gmo, pesticides and chemicals), quality housing, amenities and clothing, quality transportation and access to quality medical care.

We can easily do all of that, and MORE by increasing technical efficiency.
We can reduce our footprint on the planet by orders of magnitude by using technologies that are decades old (in some cases up to 100 years old) but far better compared to what is presently done.

Capitalism or a 'free market' does NOT mean 'freedom'.
Last I checked, the USA is already half-way to turning into fascism.
Look at how 'free' people are today. They are limited to the purchasing power they have which is dependent on an ability to find a job.
No job, no basic necessities = you're dead.

That's moronic. We live in a technological society that produces absurd levels of abundance but prohibits access due to the underlying system we have in place.


RE: 30 minutes?
By dderby on 7/13/2013 3:10:14 PM , Rating: 5
Deky baby, I've lived in a communist state. Have you? If we could sit down over a beer, we might get somewhere. Short of that, I challenge you to watch Milton Friedman's Free to Choose series on YouTube. As a Nobel Laureate, he presents the case much better than I. But it comes down to this, free enterprise has proven itself as the best way to allocate resources and preserve basic liberties. I can tell by your euthiasm for hyper velocity travel, that you believe scientists should be given free reign to produce in the interest of mankind. Hard to argue other than both Hilter and Stalin both saw it your way - and that worked out really well. Before you go off on that 'could never happen here', my adventures in communism took place in Poland, Czechslovakia, Hungry and Yugoslavia. Furthermore I've visited concentration camps at Auschwicz, Berkenau, Dachau, Chelmo and Treblinka. I've also had personal friends who were placed in Soviet camps after WWII. All of these things took place in political systems which saw no value in free enterprise.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/13/2013 6:29:09 PM , Rating: 1
Welcome to Daily Tech dderby; where Communism is great, capitalism is evil and the terrorists have already won.


RE: 30 minutes?
By drycrust3 on 7/14/2013 11:36:46 AM , Rating: 2
I doubt this. I think the writers here very much appreciate the freedoms they have. Look at the range of articles that we get on non-tech subjects. The best way to show you value the freedoms you have is to use them.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Mint on 7/18/2013 4:27:35 PM , Rating: 2
Please. The DailyTech community is far and away the most right wing tech site on the web.


RE: 30 minutes?
By deksman2 on 7/14/2013 4:35:04 AM , Rating: 3
Communism used money - seriously, anyone who studied that socio-economic system would understand that like socialism and fascism, they are all simple derivatives of an existing market based system that has numerous things in common, some of which are:
money, people in power, social stratification, and none had a general population exposed to relevant general education, critical thinking or problem solving.

None of those economic systems (including the one used today) were implemented voluntarily from everyone consciously being aware of what either system entirely entails.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/14/2013 10:36:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Communism used money


There's never going to be a societal-wide human system that doesn't use some form of currency. Get over your pie in the sky "what if" BS you're shoveling and come back to reality.

And Communism doesn't have to use money to be Communist. Star Trek is a great example of a "what if" Communist system. It's seemingly ideal, but Communist all the same. You can replace hard currency with anything of value (basic needs, transportation, education etc etc) and still have a Communist system.


RE: 30 minutes?
By deksman2 on 7/14/2013 4:12:34 PM , Rating: 2
Your attitude usually stems from lack of relevant education and critical thinking (and not being encouraged to solve problems).
Hence, any societal change that ensues will probably not come from you (if you retain the present attitude).
Have a nice life.
:-)


RE: 30 minutes?
By dderby on 7/14/13, Rating: 0
RE: 30 minutes?
By boobo on 7/14/2013 11:10:34 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not sure you can call Star Trek communist, since they are all "serving" in a ship. In the navy and NASA you also get free food, lodging, services and recreation while you're on a ship. Those who are not serving in Federation starships, like the Ferengi, gamble, traffic, and speculate.


RE: 30 minutes?
By FITCamaro on 7/15/2013 7:40:16 AM , Rating: 4
Yes but the actual show of Star Trek does not show the life of people who don't serve in Starfleet. They talk about how they have no money and also no poor, disease, hunger, etc. Well how?

Communism. Ultimately someone will always have to do the lowly jobs like cleaning facilities. Even in a world like Star Trek. So who does it? And without money who decides who gets what? Sure on ships the captain gets the nicest quarters. But what about on Earth? Do those who produce more get the nicest living accommodations or are they all the same? If they're all the same, then the society doesn't work because the vast majority of people will not work hard if they don't see some fruits of their labors that impact positively impact themselves. If not, well then you're in the same type of society as one with money just without the money. But instead of earning something and using that as you choose, you're relying on someone else to decide you did a good job and give you the reward of nicer accommodations.

Would you work a 90 hour week if you got absolutely nothing for it but the bare necessities? I wouldn't. I work hard because I believe in a system where hard work can result in long term gain. Notice I said CAN not WILL.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Schrag4 on 7/15/2013 10:39:52 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Would you work a 90 hour week if you got absolutely nothing for it but the bare necessities? I wouldn't. I work hard because I believe in a system where hard work can result in long term gain. Notice I said CAN not WILL.


And here lies the problem with utopian dreams. Not only will nobody bust their hump for bare necessities, but why even lift a finger if bare necessities are guaranteed? How can bare necessities be guaranteed if nobody lifts a finger?

With the system we have now, with all all its flaws, at least hard work is rewarded (incentivized) enough to support those who would not lift a finger to save their own lives. What those with dreams of a utopia don't realize is that if you remove the incentive to get ahead, people will produce less and standard of living will go down, especially for the poorest, that is unless the people overseeing this perfect society use the stick instead of the carrot to get others to produce. I'd rather work voluntarily in a free market rather than having some beaurocrat assign a job to me with the threat of prison or death as my incentive to obey.


RE: 30 minutes?
By dderby on 7/15/2013 11:09:58 AM , Rating: 2
Well said.


RE: 30 minutes?
By echotaylor on 7/17/2013 12:37:02 AM , Rating: 2
motivation isn't that simple

http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation.ht...

bonus, incentive etc....... isn't an ideal way to manage and motivate most people.


RE: 30 minutes?
By TSS on 7/16/2013 8:59:09 AM , Rating: 2
I should point out at this time that star trek had Infinite resources. That's how they eliminated poverty and disease and whatnot. It's a heck of alot easyer when you've got replicators.

Communism has nothing to do with money as it's not a monetary system, it is a political system. Capitalism Isn't a political system. We've got other words for political systems evolving or influenced by money such as a Plutocracy or a Oligarchy.

In fact on paper communism is the perfect political system. The problem with it comes that it doesn't take into account human imperfections. That's why, in practice, it turns out to be a very bad system.

Thing is, if you remove resources from the picture, suddenly "i wouldn't work 90 hours a week for nothing" doesn't apply. You'd work for 90 hours a week for whatever you want. A yacht, a car, a large house whatever you want. Sure there will be some limitations but even you can understand you can't have 13 billion people on the planet and then give each one of them a 5 football field estate (*cough*holodeck*cough*). Knowing nobody else can is only going to help you deal with it in a system where resources are infinite. You'll know you are getting everything you could possibly get. If you want to work at all rather then to just live life, whatever the hell that means to you.

Back in our world. Did you know Stalin actually tried to abolish money alltogether? They set up several communities in the soviet union where money just didn't exist, everybody had to work and everybody got food and stuff centrally organised. Pure communism in practice, yknow what happened?

They starved. Each and every one of them, thousands of people. Turns out that half of the people just didn't want to work and where fine with getting something for nothing. The other half couldn't pick up the slack. The crops failed, famine struck, they all starved. Why? No replicators to replicate the other 50% that's why.

Just saying that using a fictional television show or movie for that fact as an arguement about the failing or succeeding of a political system is totally out of context and pretty fracking stupid.

The right system to compare communism with is democracy. Which is just as bad. It failed in greek times it has failed today. Once the misinformed are allowed to vote the elite grab power and wealth. Since wealth is expressed in resources and resources are finite, that wealth will come out of the pockets of the population in general. The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many in the eyes of the elite. And the silly thing is there's no surefire way of telling who's informed and who's not. The greeks tried to limit to to "all free men of age", meaning only men over 18 (no slaves or women) where allowed to vote. And that system killed socrates for his thoughts.

And capitalism as a political system, good lord. Go look up history from the industrial revolution when factory labor laws just didn't exist. Why do you think unions exist? Because the government made laws saying the people could form unions. Because the government was afraid of what the people might do to them otherwise, as they damned well should be.

The best system so far has been a republic. Which i find funny because in all these discussions i don't think i've ever seen anybody mention how the US isn't supposed to be a democracy but a republic. For those who don't know: Democracy is a system of majority rule. A republic is a system of minority rule, as in a minority can get things done while in a democracy, as long as you have a majority you can do whatever you want.

The reason why a republic is better is because we're all part of one minority or another. Just consider if you'd agree with all decisions in a democracy, you'd still be part of a minority. As the US has shown though, republics still have little protection against the policy makers themselves.

It's a shame, but the perfect system for us until we get those replicators going is something that protects us from ourselves while keeping our vices in check. But honestly, i'm putting my money on the replicators.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Schrag4 on 7/16/2013 5:13:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Sure there will be some limitations but even you can understand you can't have 13 billion people on the planet and then give each one of them a 5 football field estate (*cough*holodeck*cough*).


You're right, 13 billion people could only split Earth's land area up into a little over 2 football fields each.


RE: 30 minutes?
By dderby on 7/15/2013 11:08:39 AM , Rating: 2
Boobo baby, really going to use Star Trek as a example? You realize that this show was a capitalist adventure - not for the story line, but for the producers, actors and networks. What irony! You are influenced by an egalitarian fanasty created by corporate minions. Couldn't make this s--- up. Please don't be a tool.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/15/2013 1:54:41 PM , Rating: 1
Star Trek is no more fantastical than what you're proposing, hate to tell you.

And if random insults are going to be the entirety of every reply, it only serves to weaken your position.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Devilboy1313 on 7/14/2013 7:46:55 PM , Rating: 2
Well FIT that's the last time I invite you over to my apartment. Just because it's a little small and I haven't furnished it much, there is no need to take a cheap shot and use it as an example. ;)


RE: 30 minutes?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/12/13, Rating: 0
RE: 30 minutes?
By dderby on 7/13/2013 3:23:17 PM , Rating: 2
True - we've gotten rail systems to do over 6k mph. From the Holloman Highspeed test track webiste: "The Air Force's 846th Test Squadron conducted a world record rocket sled test on the Holloman High Speed Test Track (HHSTT) at 0033 on 30 April 03. The sled obtained a velocity of 9,465 feet per second or 6,453 miles per hour, delivering a 192-lb. payload into a target." The problem is that it takes "A Super Roadrunner (SRR) rocket motor, developed specifically for the HUP program, powered each of the last two stages. The SRR motor produces 228,000-pounds of thrust for 1.4 seconds and only weighs 1,100 pounds. The maximum acceleration of the sled was 157-g's or 157 times the force exerted by gravity." It results in "When the payload impacted the target it had 363 megajoules of energy or the energy of a car impacting a brick wall at 2,020 miles per hour." Do you have any idea what it takes to do this. Remember, Elon is a self-promoter who has only delivered a handful of highly subsidized cars and a couple of heavily subsidized space launches.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Fritzr on 7/14/2013 12:57:14 AM , Rating: 2
Rocket sleds on short tracks require high g acceleration to achieve those speeds prior to impact.

Maglev can easily drive loads past the sound barrier at passenger friendly accelerations. All it needs is 100 miles or so of track over which to accelerate as fast as a VW bus. They may not achieve 3k or 4k speeds over short runs like LA<->SF, but for transcontinental there is more than enough time to reach those speeds. Even Chicago<->NY would be long enough to reach 3k+ cruising speed.

The difference is the distance between start and end of acceleration/deceleration phases.

For a really ridiculous acceleration time check out interplanetary rockets powered by ion drive (hint .01g acceleration makes a VW bus look like a speed demon)


RE: 30 minutes?
By dderby on 7/15/2013 11:14:29 AM , Rating: 2
My point is the energy required to get to Mach 10 or 7. Mass and acceleration, powering magnets, friction, vacuum pumps, control systems, safety devices all take power?


RE: 30 minutes?
By crazy1 on 7/18/2013 11:13:29 AM , Rating: 2
I think the Air Force test is an irrelevant comparison. If the aerodynamics of a passenger vehicle have a significant impact on gas mileage at speeds over 50 mph, then imagine the impact of air friction on an object at 6,000 mph. In a friction-less system, the energy needed to achieve 4,000 mph would be orders of magnitude less than used in the Air Force test.

As for the energy to maintain a vacuum. After an initial vacuum is created, I imagine the energy consumption to maintain it would be insignificant compared to other energy consumers in the system.

As for the safety concerns, there would probably be a network of sensors relaying safety information to the control mechanisms. Most, if not all, of the capsules could start decelerating almost immediately and safely, say if there were a small breach in the vacuum. Then, the capsules would likely continue to their destination at a much slower speed.

The tube would likely be a tube within a tube design. Sort of like a double hull design in a submarine. In this case, the external tube would be designed to withstand damages from natural or man-made sources, while the internal tube would be designed to maintain a vacuum and to transport capsules. A highly compressed foam or rubber could be placed as a buffer between the tubes. In the event a small object punctures both tubes (and the foam), the compressed foam would squeeze its hole shut as a temporary, but immediate, solution.

I would ride in such a system across country, especially if the terminals were not implemented more efficiently than a modern airport.

Note: For those writing about crossing the ocean in such a system, a transatlantic mag-lev system has been studied. It would take roughly 100 years to build a railway between London and NYC. It would require building hundreds of 1-4 mile high steel structures from the ocean floor, and keeping them steady enough in the ocean current to support a bridge with a high speed train on it. Additionally, it would need to be resistant to a large cargo ship colliding with it. The endeavor would probably cost more than any other single project, ever.


RE: 30 minutes?
By rs2 on 7/14/2013 8:16:24 PM , Rating: 2
You have to allow time for acceleration and deceleration. Probably also loading and unloading, moving through the terminal, etc.. And don't forget passing through the airlock at each end. You can't exactly have passengers stepping out into vacuum.

And breaking the sound barrier is irrelevant if you're traveling in a vacuum (which is the only way you're going to get "frictionless" travel at those speeds, and also why the company is called "Evacuated Tube Transport", I would assume).

The vehicles should theoretically be silent. And a loss of pressurization deadly. Unless passengers are required to suit up for safety. Which could also account for a bit of extra time.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Jeffk464 on 7/12/2013 1:09:06 PM , Rating: 2
I don't see how this can possibly be as cheap as Musk claims but he has a history of producing.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Mint on 7/12/2013 3:59:11 PM , Rating: 2
Musk estimated the LA-SF hyperloop to cost $6B, or 1/10th the cost of the proposed high speed rail. That's roughly $3000 per foot.

Plastics can have 100 MPa yield strength, and atmospheric pressure is only 100 kPa, so the tube can be quite thin if the maglev is supporting the weight of the cars. But even if we make it 1" thick for safety, that's maybe $200/foot for 6' diameter. At least that part has low cost.

The question, then, is how much maglev costs for small cars, but it sounds feasible to me.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Nutzo on 7/14/2013 12:50:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Musk estimated the LA-SF hyperloop to cost $6B, or 1/10th the cost of the proposed high speed rail. That's roughly $3000 per foot.


Don't you mean the low speed train? Even with the huge budget they have, they have already lower the speed to use existing tracks. I doubt they will ever lay a single mile of track, meanwhile they will burn through billions.

They should just cancel the high speed rail, fire everyone involved and higher Musk to build this system.


RE: 30 minutes?
By danjw1 on 7/12/2013 4:19:45 PM , Rating: 2
It will take time to accelerate and decelerate, so as not to crush the occupants. It is 293.22 (NM) / 337.51 (MI) / 543.05 (KM) between SFO and LAX. 2,150.62 (NM) / 2,475.42 (MI) / 3,982.95 (KM) between JFK and LAX.


RE: 30 minutes?
By BillyBatson on 7/12/2013 4:29:14 PM , Rating: 2
You have to factor in the ramp up of speed. The capsule is not going to go from 0-4000mph in a blink of an eye everyone would be crushed against their seat. It most likely takes at lesser a few minutes or more to reach top speed, slowing the trip down to the posted numbers above.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Shig on 7/12/2013 6:38:55 PM , Rating: 2
This would allow all mega-regions in the United States to interconnect with one another at an unprecedented level. People would pay ridiculous sums for tickets. It's almost too powerful of a technology to keep private if it does work out.

If you built one from SF to LA, the ENTIRE area in between would turn into a giant continuous city. Well played Ridley Scott, well played.


RE: 30 minutes?
By Helbore on 7/14/2013 8:18:06 PM , Rating: 2
They could probably do it quicker if the passengers were happy to be dead at the end of their journey.


Wow
By Flunk on 7/12/2013 11:04:58 AM , Rating: 3
This would be quite unbelievable if they really build it. It takes people quite untied to regular conventional thought to build something like this, Musk seems to be one of those people so hopefully they build one of these. I could see a San Francisco to Vegas line being quite profitable as a first step...




RE: Wow
By Motoman on 7/12/2013 11:15:03 AM , Rating: 3
The concept is simple. This isn't a new idea.

The problem is in executing it. You'd need an evacuated tube (no atmosphere to create drag) a couple thousand miles long, with some sort of maglev tech running throughout the whole thing, and on the vehicle, and the power to manage everything.

Simple. Now go and try to build one. That's essentially 100% reliable. Because you can imagine the carnage that would ensue if something goes wrong at 4,000 MPH.


RE: Wow
By Obujuwami on 7/12/2013 11:37:15 AM , Rating: 2
There is also the problem of gravity and inertia. You can just accelerate from here to top speed like that. You would have to gradually accelerate to a stable speed, maybe 1200MPH in a distance that isn't uncomfortable for the riders. 0-1200MPH in 20 seconds = dead riders!

You also have to allow a braking time that is equally as comfortable for the riders and take all this into the timing of the ride. Plus, where would it let you off? Would there be several splits when it gets to LA? LA has a really crappy public transportation system, what if we want to go to Disneyland with the family and all our crap? Will they have a split tube and continue to Anaheim? San Diego?

What about going to Sacramento? It is the state capital and lots of business is done there. It needs to be more thought out before plans are even drawn up. Love the idea, but think about it more.


RE: Wow
By InsGadget on 7/12/2013 11:56:59 AM , Rating: 2
I guarantee you many smart people have already thought of these issues and how to work around them.


RE: Wow
By Motoman on 7/12/2013 12:23:06 PM , Rating: 2
Maglev systems already in use are fine for accel/decel operations. There's no need to worry too much about that.

The problems lie elsewhere - evacuated tubes thousands of miles long with operating speeds of 4,000MPH. These are big engineering and reliability issues.


RE: Wow
By Mint on 7/12/2013 4:06:54 PM , Rating: 3
I think tampering is one of the biggest concerns for this and even high speed rail.

You don't want a tube system that falls apart from a clown with a drill who puts junk inside. Low speed trains can even deal with a car on the track.


RE: Wow
By Motoman on 7/12/2013 9:30:09 PM , Rating: 3
With an evacuated tube system, which relies on not having any atmospheric resistance, even a kid with a .22 rifle could foul things up.

No need to "put junk inside." Just poke a couple holes in it. Soon enough...kablooie!


RE: Wow
By Dr. Kenneth Noisewater on 7/12/2013 12:30:32 PM , Rating: 2
Acceleration at 0.5g, deceleration at 0.25g should be tolerable to get up to speed I should think, and having seats that could individually swivel 180 degrees so that passengers are being pushed into them in either phase would be ideal (and would allow for groups to face each other).


RE: Wow
By Dr. Kenneth Noisewater on 7/12/2013 12:27:23 PM , Rating: 2
So let's look at what else could come along with this concept:
* install solar panels along the entire length of it. That would make it entirely self-sufficient energywise, and would in fact generate an awful lot of power that could be stored in batteries or other storage means along the way, or fed back into the grid
* run superconducting high-voltage wires along the way to improve grid efficiency and robustness
* run fiber along the way for more bandwidth
* design is fairly unobtrusive with low land footprint and could be built in prefabricated standardized lengths vs having to condemn/take lots of property and dig lots of tunnels
* make it big enough to handle automobile pods, cargo pods that take standard-sized shipping containers, etc. Say 12' interior diameter per tube.
* make the mounting towers strong enough to handle stacks of tubes to handle growth without much more impact on land below


RE: Wow
By Motoman on 7/12/2013 12:38:22 PM , Rating: 2
OK. Go on and do that then. When should we expect to be able to buy tickets?


RE: Wow
By rs2 on 7/14/2013 8:45:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
install solar panels along the entire length of it. That would make it entirely self-sufficient energywise, and would in fact generate an awful lot of power that could be stored in batteries or other storage means along the way, or fed back into the grid


You mean solar panels *and* batteries along the entire length of it. To accommodate people who, you know, might want to travel at night, or during periods of heavy rain.

But yes, some sort of internal powersource would be necessary. You certainly wouldn't want to have anything stop working due to a local power failure when you've got cars traveling along at 4000 mph.

quote:
run superconducting high-voltage wires along the way to improve grid efficiency and robustness


Yes, because those don't have absurd cooling requirements that will completely offset any reduced transmission losses provided by superconductivity.

Do remember that room-temperature superconductors are still theoretical.

quote:
run fiber along the way for more bandwidth


Might as well. But that doesn't have anything to do with transportation.

quote:
design is fairly unobtrusive with low land footprint


Doesn't matter. People will still be up in arms protesting this.


RE: Wow
By Breakfast Susej on 7/12/2013 1:14:03 PM , Rating: 2
The disasters this thing could have would be spectacular. Imagine a vacuum tube across the country with 4000mph bullets speeding through it and it suddenly springs a leak. I'm not a physicist but I am under the impression the car capsules would permacrisp into a ball of molten slag as they run into a wall of rushing atmosphere.

At that speed you need quite a long time to safely stop without killing passengers in the event of an emergency. This will need a lot of failsafes on it.

But the other thing is it does have to be 100% reliable, because for something this exotic, one mistake may lead to a massive disaster and completely destroy confidence in it. A plane crash or two here and there doesn't stop people flying. But a tube running the entire country suddenly taking in atmosphere and killing thousands of people inside it would make bad press.


RE: Wow
By Chadder007 on 7/12/2013 3:50:51 PM , Rating: 2
Id worry about small earthquakes causing that very problem within the vacuum tubes.


RE: Wow
By lelias2k on 7/12/2013 10:13:41 PM , Rating: 4
We have planes that can carry almost 800 people at 0.84 mach.

We have been to the moon (allegedly ;)) and are constantly doing things in space.

We have a skyscraper with more than 100 floors built in a city hit by earthquakes.

My guess is that we have the capability of doing these things. And that if people like Musk are actually thinking of doing it, he has already either done the research himself or talked to people whose opinion he respects enough to believe in the project.

Finally, almost nothing is 100% reliable. And I think if we risk putting 800 people on a plane (which is NOT 100% reliable), putting 6-20 people in one of these won't be a problem.


RE: Wow
By drycrust3 on 7/12/2013 2:10:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You'd need an evacuated tube (no atmosphere to create drag) a couple thousand miles long,

This is where the problem is. Every imperfection in manufacturing, every dent, every welded joint, and every microscopic metal fatigue crack is a potential air leak. This is before the train is put inside the tube. The train itself is also a source of air leaks. Sure, the amount of air leaking through a mile of pipe is so miniscule that one probably doesn't normally worry about it, but the cumulative effect of a thousand miles of miniscule air leaks is air in the tube.


RE: Wow
By Ammohunt on 7/12/2013 2:35:54 PM , Rating: 2
I agree the tolerances required to make a run a 4k MPH seem a little unbelievable if a part of the tube subsides even a fraction of centimeter..hitting a speed bump at 4k MPH would be more than a headache.


RE: Wow
By tdktank59 on 7/12/2013 3:36:01 PM , Rating: 2
However its mag lev, so the capsule vehicle thingy will be floating in the middle of the tube. I would imagine a fraction of a cm won't do much in a mag lev environment.

But I could very well be wrong.

Lets build one and test!


RE: Wow
By Ammohunt on 7/15/2013 2:56:37 PM , Rating: 2
The inertia generated by anything traveling at 4k MPH is enough to defeat any magnetic field especially maglev which in perfect work scenarios only hovers centimeter off the the track. I will never ride in such a contraption.


RE: Wow
By tamalero on 7/15/2013 3:59:43 AM , Rating: 2
and... let's not forget earthquakes


RE: Wow
By superflex on 7/16/2013 11:41:26 AM , Rating: 2
The biggest problem he will face are the environmental impact studies and the habitat destruction of the 3 spotted pill bug or whatever the Greenies decide to make their poster boy.
Good luck with that in the land of fruits and nuts.


RE: Wow
By Jeffk464 on 7/12/2013 1:07:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I could see a San Francisco to Vegas line being quite profitable as a first step...


Wow, thats a tough route. You ever drive between San Fran and Las Vegas, there are a whole lot of mountains in the way.


RE: Wow
By ameriman on 7/14/2013 9:28:17 PM , Rating: 2
You ever drive between San Fran and Las Vegas, there are a whole lot of mountains in the way.
===== =
If you go 4,000 mph, you can afford to route far outside the direct route, and still far outpace a 600 mph airliner direct flight.


Cool
By Totally on 7/12/2013 11:16:18 AM , Rating: 2
This is something that I'd like to see become a reality, but I can see a few of the hurdles already, NAMBLA for starters.




RE: Cool
By wasteoid on 7/12/2013 11:31:55 AM , Rating: 4
Is there something you know about Elon Musk (or vacuum tubes) that the rest of us don't?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMBY

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/B...


RE: Cool
By Totally on 7/13/2013 1:57:14 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I derped too much south park lately but at least you got what I was trying to say.


RE: Cool
By MozeeToby on 7/12/2013 11:35:27 AM , Rating: 2
Given his other interests, I can't help but to see this as merely "step 1" of a much larger, more ambitious plan. Systems like these would be proving grounds for the technology needed for mass drivers capable of assisting rocket launches or even launching supplies directly into orbit (requiring only a small thrust system to stabilize and dock).

If you can build this and do it at all cost efficiently, there's a lot of other very exciting things that you can start work on. Mass drivers, launch loops, space fountains, orbital rings... it's all just a matter of scale. Out of curiosity,


RE: Cool
By Moizy on 7/12/2013 11:41:27 AM , Rating: 3
I don't understand the connection this story has to NAMBLA. Please elaborate.


RE: Cool
By RU482 on 7/12/2013 12:47:44 PM , Rating: 4
OMFG...NAMBLA....thank you for that laugh!!!


In an ideal world
By jimbojimbo on 7/12/2013 11:28:06 AM , Rating: 2
Don't get me wrong I'd love to see the thing built. However, at $100 one way there would be so many people wanting to ride it that the wait will probably be several hours for that one hour ride. Then take into account Homeland Security will get involved and slow things down even more. Maybe I've just become to cynical.




RE: In an ideal world
By FITCamaro on 7/12/13, Rating: 0
RE: In an ideal world
By Pneumothorax on 7/12/2013 2:01:23 PM , Rating: 2
For the crazy >$200 Billion cost of CA's train to nowhere (yes, it will cost this much IF it ever gets built), we should be getting something like this high-tech and FAST enough to make me want to take this over a Southwest flight for $70.


RE: In an ideal world
By someguy743 on 7/12/2013 1:09:14 PM , Rating: 2
I read somewhere that Elon HATES I-405 traffic like everyone else in LA. I bet he will want to built the first leg of his "Hyperloop" right alongside the worst parts of the 405.

This would be a whole new meaning for "beating the traffic". It would be like going into warp drive on Star Trek while everyone else on the 405 is crawling along at a snail's pace.


RE: In an ideal world
By Reclaimer77 on 7/12/2013 8:10:24 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I read somewhere that Elon HATES I-405 traffic like everyone else in LA.


I have developed an amazing technology that I'm willing to license to Musk. It will solve all his LA woes!

http://www.uhaul.com/Trucks/

You would think people in general, especially a billionaire, would figure this out eventually...


RE: In an ideal world
By CaedenV on 7/12/2013 2:40:17 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know about the hordes of people being such a big deal. I suppose it depends on what the terminals look like for this setup.
If it is a singular loop with a singular door letting 6 people on/off every 10 minutes then yes, it could be an issue because you could only cram 864 people through in a 24 hour period. But with such a tiny volume of people I am sure that tickets would cost well in excess of $100 per person (or $600 per capsule).

If this is more like a train station where you have several loading and unloading points throughout a facility and could use an automated system to launch a 6 person tube every minute? Then you are talking about being able to move 360 people every hour, or upwards of 8,000 people a day in one direction, or a total of ~16,000 people coming and going each day. If they are stacked tubes like the image above then you could potentially add more tubes to scale to demand.

And forget about people, what about cargo! For me to ship a package from Cincinnati to California it typically costs me ~$35 and it takes 8-10 days. For the sake of simple math let's assume that you can cram 100 small to medium sized boxes in one of these pods, and it would cost some $600 to rent the whole thing out for cargo. That would be $6 per package, and it would arrive the same day rather than a week or two later. Call it 2 day shipping, charge me $20, and take the $14 in pure profits. I'd be one happy camper!


RE: In an ideal world
By tdktank59 on 7/12/2013 3:29:46 PM , Rating: 2
In the cargo scenario you are forgetting about the final mile, unloading/loading labor etc... Theres more to it than just the long haul transportation part.


Well, sir...
By LRonaldHubbs on 7/12/2013 1:32:28 PM , Rating: 5
There's nothin' on earth like a genuine bona-fide electrified six-pod hyperloop!
What'd I say?
Hyperloop!
What's it called?
Hyperloop.
That's right!
Hyperloop!
Hyperloop...hyperloop...hyperloop...

I hear those things are awfully loud.
It glides as softly as a cloud.
Is there a chance the tube could bend?
Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
What about us brain-dead slobs?
You'll be given cushy jobs.
Were you sent here by the devil?
No, good sir, I'm on the level.
The ring came off my pudding can.
Take my pen knife, my good man.

I swear, it's LA's only choice!
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
Hyperloop
What's it called?
Hyperloop
Once again!
Hyperloop!

But Main Street's still all cracked and broken.
Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!

Hyperloop
Hyperloop!
HYPERLOOP!!
HYPERLOOP!!!!!




RE: Well, sir...
By Mint on 7/12/2013 4:35:29 PM , Rating: 2
Hyperl.. D'OH!


RE: Well, sir...
By Devilboy1313 on 7/14/2013 8:06:52 PM , Rating: 2
But it worked in North Haverbrook.


Dont know allot about G-Forces but...
By unimatrix725 on 7/12/2013 1:20:19 PM , Rating: 2
I kinda have the feeling I would pass out or go splat without some anertial dampners! lol




By bug77 on 7/12/2013 3:25:52 PM , Rating: 2
You definitely don't know a lot. It's the acceleration that makes you pass out, not the top speed (if you've ever cruised at >100mph, you have probably noticed it's not any worse than driving through the city at 35). And there's no reason these should accelerate abruptly.


RE: Dont know allot about G-Forces but...
By FITCamaro on 7/12/2013 7:04:39 PM , Rating: 2
Astronauts did 25,000 mph in the shuttle just fine.


By ameriman on 7/14/2013 9:21:01 PM , Rating: 2
The Space Shuttle never got over low earth orbital speed, 18,000 mph.


007
By Xponential on 7/12/2013 1:07:55 PM , Rating: 2
The first thing that popped into my head after reading this article was a Bond movie. I don't remember the title but it's the one where he escapes a country by traveling in some sort of car/capsule inside a pipeline.




RE: 007
By tdktank59 on 7/12/2013 3:33:06 PM , Rating: 2
I believe it was "The World Is Not Enough" there is an oil pipeline they are trying to save from being blown up.... Or something like that its been a while since I last saw it.


RE: 007
By LazLong on 7/12/2013 6:59:38 PM , Rating: 1
Which dystopian SF series from the '70s had a world-wide network very much like the description of this 'Hyperloop?' wasn't it the Logan's Run series? Or was it the one with the articulated van and jet-pack? My first thought was about the transport system in whichever show it was.

Man, I'm getting old. My memory/ability to recall seems to be getting really fucked up.


RE: 007
By casteve on 7/13/2013 10:50:51 AM , Rating: 2
Genesis II by Gene Roddenberry. Land of subterranean maglev trains and women with 2 navels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_II_%28film%2...
http://space1970.blogspot.com/2011/03/genesis-ii-1...


Yes, there is
By bug77 on 7/12/2013 11:26:01 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
Is there anything Elon Musk can't do?


He can't create a rock that he can't lift ;-)




RE: Yes, there is
By Azethoth on 7/12/2013 9:03:43 PM , Rating: 2
He can't cure cancer either, because even though his tears would cure it, he never cries.


problems with ETT
By Chernobyl68 on 7/12/2013 4:21:13 PM , Rating: 2
One of the major problems with ETT is heat dissapation by the vehicle. Power systems, magnetics, air conditioning, life support, hotel power loads, all generate heat. In a vacuum all that must be dissipaited by radiation, which is far less efficient than convection or conduction.
Also a problem is drawing and maintaining a vacuum in such large single chambers. They would far and away be the largest vacuum chambers ever built, and the vacuum would likely never be perfect. So now you are not just powering the propulsion you have to power hundreds of vacuum pumps.
How do you perform maintenance? Put men in space suits, or break the vacuum? How long does it take to pull a vacuum in such a massive space?




RE: problems with ETT
By mlmiller1 on 7/14/2013 2:45:52 AM , Rating: 2
Reject heat to a water bladder. Discharge bladder at end of run.


almost impossible
By The0ne on 7/12/2013 2:03:22 PM , Rating: 2
Considering it's CA and there are plenty of "rail" projects that busted or going on and costs so much I don't think this will ever see the light of day. If anything environmentalist extremist will get vocal and things will come to a halt.




RE: almost impossible
By ameriman on 7/13/2013 5:35:06 PM , Rating: 1
Perhaps it goes from the east coast but stops short of the California 'land of fruits and nuts' border...


Futurama
By tdktank59 on 7/12/2013 2:35:19 PM , Rating: 2
Kinda makes me think of http://theinfosphere.org/Tube_Transport_System
but more like a vehicle rather than just a body




By 91TTZ on 7/13/2013 2:59:59 AM , Rating: 2
If you read up on it, it's nothing but a pipe dream. There's no plan in place to implement it.




acceleration
By ssobol on 7/13/2013 5:31:27 PM , Rating: 2
Navy fliers are regularly accelerated to about 150 mph in about 2 seconds or less (and are decelerated much more quickly than that). While this may not be as pleasant as driving on the highway in your land yacht it will not hurt most people. There are also a number of amusement park rides that will accelerate you quite quickly (but to a lower top speed).

Granted that for frequent use and allowing for elderly and infirm riders you probably want a more gentle acceleration, but there will probably be riders who would enjoy the thrill of being shot down a tube at a high rate.




Utter nonsense
By GatoRat on 7/14/2013 11:54:56 AM , Rating: 2
Would be neat if it worked on even a small scale, which it doesn't. To scale to level required would require trillions of dollars, requiring thousands of dollars of ticket to recoup the costs.




Mad Libs
By Stuka on 7/14/2013 3:36:57 PM , Rating: 2
This a a perfect Mad Libs story. It's actually less funny the wackier you make it. Try it...

quote:
For those who hate the _________ between Los Angeles and San Francisco, or the long _________ from the East Coast to the West Coast, the _________ will come in handy. It's an _________ that would contain _________ capable of fitting up to six _________. Within the _________, the _________ would travel with a _________ for a "_________-less" ride. The _________ would travel at about _________ MPH, successfully taking _________ from San Francisco to Los Angeles (and vice versa) in about 30 _________. Traveling from California to the East Coast would take under _________. You're probably thinking that such high-speed _________ would be way more _________ than flying by _________ or driving by _________. According to Yahoo News, using the _________ from California to New York would cost about _________. Now you may be thinking that something like this likely won't _________ anytime soon. Wrong again. Colorado-based company ET3 has been _________ on a project called the Evacuated _________, which works very similarly to the _________ idea.




By TacticalTrading on 7/15/2013 11:56:03 AM , Rating: 2
It is a huge vacuum tube.
What happens to the passengers if/when a "pod" rocketing through the tube at 2,000 MPH springs a leak?

I doubt the loop tube would react well to instant re-pressurization, and if the pod is "at speed" you couldn't do it anyway without causing a another major set of problems.

@ 35,000 FT, all I need is some O2, and a drop to 10,000 Ft.

@ 0 PSI, a bottle of O2 won't stop my eyeballs from getting sucked out of my head....




Evacuated Tube Transport
By Angstromm on 7/15/2013 1:53:10 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, can't wait till that one! It's been awhile since my tube has been evacuated and let me tell you it's not at all comfortable...

Comon people, that name does call up some unpleasant images...




This is your captain speaking...
By ProZach on 7/15/2013 4:10:09 PM , Rating: 2
"Please observe the fasten seat belts and no smoking signs.
"On your left you will observe some nice tubing and on your right some more beautiful tubing, and now observe the fasten seat belts sign is no longer lit as your should prepare to vacate your seats and exit the module.
"Thank you and have a nice day."




Super Tube!
By Dan Banana on 7/16/2013 10:55:53 PM , Rating: 2
I think that an elevated tube with passenger compartments inside traveling at 4000 MPH will make an attractive target for terrorists. One reason is that they will not stop quickly at that speed so blow out a tube with the right timing and the 4000 MPH compartment goes flying high and far outside the tube in a very spectacular fashion. You can apply all the safeguards you want but a long stretch like LA to SF or cross country will be a long stretch to patrol or even monitor electronically. That said, it should still be done because terrorism presents a very minor risk for injury or death compared to our main killers like cancer or heart disease and the speedy system would just be cool.




Make sure Cali....
By overlandpark4me on 7/22/2013 9:05:30 PM , Rating: 2
has nothing to do with it, or it will be an embarrassing failure




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