Print 107 comment(s) - last by Legionosh.. on Sep 26 at 9:48 AM

Halo 3 game disc floats freely in game box  (Source: Hooterville of NeoGAF)

Some report of skipping music as a result of scratched discs  (Source: NeoGAF)

Shallow center hub not up to the task of securing Halo 3 discs  (Source: NeoGAF)
Shoddy Halo 3 packaging leads to scratched game discs

A lot of people will be buying shiny, new copies of Halo 3 this week, but some of them will get home to find scratched discs straight out of the box.
Early reports from lucky early owners of the Halo 3 Limited Edition on gaming forum NeoGAF found that the game discs have broken free from the hubs that were supposed to secure the discs into place.
Unlike the regular Xbox 360 green game boxes, the Halo 3 Limited Edition ships in a black tin box with center hubs too shallow to adequately hold the DVDs in place. As a result, consumers may find discs that have been freely floating around inside the box that have been scratched up by the very hub that was supposed to keep it in place.
“A friend just opened 3 copies of Halo 3 Limited Edition and with all three copies both disc were loose inside of the package and scratched to death,” explained the original poster of the thread. “This Limited Edition has a piss poor plastic nub and foam pad disc holding design that is a major flaw and the discs pop off with ease.”
Although Halo 3 has yet to launch to the public, forum participants who work at game stores have chimed in with their own experience after examining (by shaking and listening for loose discs) their inventory.
“I picked up 2 collectors tins today at work, and they both felt like the disc came loose in them. This is a horrible sign,” said one store employee.
The same conditions may also apply to the game in other territories. “I saw a few PAL copies yesterday … and they were all the same. Every LE had two loose discs in the box, both badly scratched. The one we tested seemed to play ok but they're getting sent back as faulty anyway. It's not like they could be sold in that condition,” reported another store worker from overseas.
So far, reports of scratched discs apply only to the $69.99 Limited Edition, but not to the $59.99 Standard Edition or the $129.99 Legendary Edition.

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Well damn...
By Locutus465 on 9/22/2007 7:59:00 PM , Rating: 1
Limited edition is the one I went for... Well, hopefully I'll get one that survived, as long as I can play the game I'm happy. Personally, I'll be getting to GameStop early on the night of the 24th, sounds like all limited edition pre-order holders should consider doing the same :P

RE: Well damn...
By crazyblackman on 9/22/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By crazyblackman on 9/22/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By afkrotch on 9/22/2007 9:18:29 PM , Rating: 1
Ya, no kidding. I'm pissed off that I've had to purchase 3 different Xbox 360s. After investing around $600 in games, it wouldn't have made sense not to go for another system.

I bought the Japanese Xbox 360, so I'm unclear as what I needed to do to even get warranty service. So I just modded the casing from the 1st one, and implanted it on the 2nd one. Which of course, voided the warranty. Then on my 3rd one, I implanted the modded casing to it. The first two broke within about 3 months. 3rd one is surviving so far.

When someone asks me for my opinion, I point them towards the PS3. Sure, it has less games, but it doesn't break.

RE: Well damn...
By crazyblackman on 9/22/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By feraltoad on 9/22/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By crazyblackman on 9/22/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By ShapeGSX on 9/22/2007 11:50:48 PM , Rating: 5
They will replace the discs for free.

RE: Well damn...
By Samus on 9/23/07, Rating: 0
RE: Well damn...
By erikejw on 9/23/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By chick0n on 9/23/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By mikeyD95125 on 9/23/2007 6:48:04 PM , Rating: 1
I'd prefer they not cut corners and use shitty packaging in the first place. I'm sure all the people standing in line will want a disc that works so they can go home and play it.

RE: Well damn...
By SaySomeThingOrDIE on 9/24/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By feraltoad on 9/24/2007 2:04:03 AM , Rating: 2
My friend sent back his RROD xbox. Got back one that was in worse shape (scratches on it and some kind of crap in the disk tray, spilled milk? Oh and the eject button was hit or miss). He as pissed because he had taken care of his and it only had light use; less than 80 hours on it. Also, this one scratched 2 of his games GOW and another he just bought. He called MS. They said, "No Replacement of Games", and their policy was "The xbox360 does NOT scratch discs". He said the tech was sympathetic and said he had heard it from hundreds of people about the scratched discs but the brass still said "no replacements". Fortunately, he was able to send the console back, but now it'll be another month.Just check google news about the scratching and u will see the headlines. If you guys know a special customer service number or technique to get those games replaced cough it up! It would be good to mail them off now since he has no way to play them anyway. Anyone personally had a game replaced? If so please chime in, I'd love to be wrong about this. He said he would use those Disc Skin things to protect his games from the console.

RE: Well damn...
By omnicronx on 9/23/2007 12:26:27 AM , Rating: 4
Hey sir, son, buddy, whatever you want to call yourself, whats the point of all your posts. Sure getting an RROD box sucks, so don't buy one. If 3 RROD's are not going to change someone's mind, your rambling and run on sentences sure as hell won't.

The 360 now has a larger fan base, plain and simple. I can't think of how many original ipod's my friends have gone through, but amazingly they still go back and apple has the market cornered. Even though there are many other cheaper and better mp3 players out there.

And lets face it, RROD is essentially a thing of the past, the newer 90nm boards have a fraction of the fail rate that older boards had, and with 65nm on the horizon, it should soon be a thing of the past. And by the way, don't buy a ps2 either, because i heard the first year of the red box batches are defective, thus all ps2's after that must also be defective.

RE: Well damn...
By crazyblackman on 9/23/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By afkrotch on 9/23/2007 1:51:41 AM , Rating: 2
65nm is only the cpu. The GPU will still be 90nm and that's where the majority of RRODs is going to be at.

RE: Well damn...
By omnicronx on 9/23/2007 2:06:52 AM , Rating: 3
The GPU will still be 90nm and that's where the majority of RRODs is going to be at.
Why is everyone going on about this, i really doubt this to be true. Almost ALL of the rrod failures were as a result of the way the motherboards were attached to casing, which apparently had to do with extra pegs or screws holding it in place. When the gpu/cpu would overheat, the mainboard would actually warp under the cpu/gpu causing loss of contact between the heatsync and the cpu/gpu's. Many people have modded their 360's so that this problem no longer occurs.

Now i am not saying all the RROD's were caused by this problem but i would imagine it was the root cause for most of them, especially in the beginning. The GPU in particular does not overheat anymore than the cpu , so i do not know why anyone would peg the gpu as being the main cause of RROD's in the first place.

RE: Well damn...
By afkrotch on 9/23/2007 2:55:48 AM , Rating: 2
Cause the GPU has the worst heatsink compared to the cpu. Because the dvd-rom sits above it, it's given a horrid heatsink in comparison. Their current fix for this was a heatpipe from the heatsink to a smaller heatsink that sits in front of the cpu's heatsink.

Also the majority of the RROD problems were not caused from a disconnection of heatsink and cpu/gpu. It was a disconnection of the cpu/gpu from the motherboard itself. It was caused by a combination of issues. 1st bad solder, 2nd not enough pegs to hold up the mobo, and 3rd heat.

Only one of those problems has been resolved and that was the solder. Second problem was never fixed, but instead they used a duct tape fix for that one. They applied epoxy to the side of the procs to hold it to the motherboard incase of warping, but that really doesn't solve anything. Third problem also has a duct tape fix for the gpu and the cpu didn't get anything new, cept a heatsink in front of it for hot air to get sucked through it.

RE: Well damn...
By Blight AC on 9/24/2007 12:15:09 PM , Rating: 2
When you run smaller chips, the 90nm and 65nm, they require less voltage and create less heat. Heat is the main issue, and that's why people are touting the better 90nm and 65nm chips.

RE: Well damn...
By Bioniccrackmonk on 9/25/2007 8:55:46 AM , Rating: 1
How can so many people be so wrong about the chips and defects in the xbox 360. Both the CPU and GPU started out at 90nm, the problem was the lead free solder they were using, not nearly as reliable as the old stuff. The warping of the mobo and the heatsink being directly under the cd drive. But yes, when the CPU is shrunk to 65nm it will run cooler, but that was the major source of the heat anyway, it is the GPU. Hopefully when they die shrink the cpu they will fix the heatsink for the gpu, but either way, I will keep playing my friends until I hear about these problems going away and only then will I consider buying one.

RE: Well damn...
By 3kliksphilip on 9/23/2007 11:55:49 AM , Rating: 4
It's not as if the discs were scratched on purpose- is Microsoft even responsible for the packaging? It's stupid for such a case to be released, but as long as it is dealt with quickly and effectively I don't see the problem. (Apart from loads of angry people in the short term). If you hate the Xbox360 so much then I don't know why you're complaining- you clearly weren't affected.

Sony hasn't had a perfect track record either, remember. I don't want to take 'sides' between Xbox and PS3. I hope that the PS3 will do well in the future, as at the moment the Xbox has far more games (And quality games at that- Halo3!). Sony aren't doing themselves any favours by making their consoles harder to program. Instead of better quality games, it will lead to poorer quality until the developers get used to it. Even then, why should they, especially when they could simply do a game easier for the other consoles?

Good day to you, sir.

RE: Well damn...
By winterspan on 9/23/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By sweetsauce on 9/24/2007 2:01:33 AM , Rating: 1
I'm actually hoping that this fantasy world ps3 fanboys live in becomes reality and the ps3 turns out to be more powerful than the 360, that way they can go through the hell all original xbox owners went through. All games will be made on the 360, then they will be ported over poorly to the ps3. All of the "potential" power of the system will never be used since there is a huge installed base of 360 owners, so you'll still end up with a better product on the "inferior" 360. I hope this comes true, since this was my reality for so many years having that piece of shit ps2 with its horrible graphics being the dominant system.

RE: Well damn...
By djkrypplephite on 9/24/2007 4:19:32 AM , Rating: 2
I know you like sucking Sony's dick here, but it's really not that amazing of a chip.

RE: Well damn...
By Blight AC on 9/24/2007 11:52:43 AM , Rating: 1
Okay.. so Microsoft has issues, however, you pointing and laughing at Microsoft fan-boys while promoting Sony seems a bit fan-boyish. Your being hypocritical.

Sony is a great company for selling promises. Sony promised a Network Adapter for the PS2.. promised it around 1 year after the initial release of the console. It was their delay in moving to online gaming (arguably the future of gaming) that really helped Microsoft get a foothold in the console market. A delay that still plagues them to this day.

Sony also sold lots of promises with their PSP. Continually stringing everyone along who bought it, or considered buying it with promises of great games and functionality to come. Sounds quite familiar to the situation you are in now, promoting Sony because of the promise of upcoming titles. So while Microsoft is having some Quality Control issues, Sony is trying to sell promises. Considering that the people who have working 360's are able to play good games right now, I'd say Microsoft has the lead on this. Also, 360's owners are getting Halo 3 AND Orange Box within the very near future, not in 2008.. or some undisclosed time in the future.

I own a PSP, and the only game I really enjoy playing on it is Lumines. I am interested in Jeanne d'Arc though. Also, they gave me an online browser that's nearly useless (as in hardware limitation useless, as I frequently get out of memory when trying to view normal web sites), and gave me SWF.. I cheered, but then most of the SWF videos/games that I have won't play.. out of memory. However, the PSP has been useful as an MP3 player, it has good battery life that way and has at least kept me occupied on the few times I've flown around. Either way, from all the promises I was fed by Sony on the PSP, I currently have an MP3 player, and Lumines, meh.

The games that Sony has been touting this past year have fallen on their faces, Heavenly Sword and Lair are two games recently that I've seen just fail so completely. I'm sure they look great... but Nintendo has more then proven that Gameplay is still at the heart of gamers.

Bluetooth, it's funny that you mention that... Microsoft has been a part of the Bluetooth Consortium since 1999 as a promoter. If Microsoft thought Bluetooth was a better option for wireless controllers, I'm sure they would of jumped right on that.

(* Note: This Paragraph is purely my own opinion) Also, in the HD side by side comparison of games I have seen for both systems, I prefer the 360 versions to the PS3 version. Now, I do fully expect this to change once the developers become more accustomed to getting the most out of the PS3, but right now, I think the 360 is putting out better image quality, and quite frankly, that surprises me considering that it seems the PS3 has the better hardware. I'm also not alone in this belief as I've seen reviewers mention the same thing.

The last problem I have with Sony is it's currently at the bottom of the totem pole with it's PS3. It's not a good place to be if you want exclusives, and developers won't go out of their way for a console in that position. The reason, as I see it, is because Sony has been making mistakes along the way that have caught up to them. Using proprietary hardware (MagicStick and UMD for the PSP, and Blu-Ray for the PS3) is bad for the consumer, and being lack-luster about online gaming is limiting their market. Even now, Sony's online experience isn't complete.. but Sony does have more promises for a brighter future.

Either way, it comes down to fanboi evangalism, just because you like Sony's promises better then Microsoft's potential QC issues doesn't mean the other guy will. Me, I prefer gaming now, and gaming on Xbox Live with my friends and voice chat over a network that has been developed and improved for a while now. You, you seem to prefer Sony's promises of a better gaming platform.. either way, it's to each his own, and you coming in here and bad mouthing Microsoft to sell your own Snake Oil because you prefer a different evil is not constructive for anyone.

RE: Well damn...
By augiem on 9/24/07, Rating: 0
RE: Well damn...
By Nik00117 on 9/23/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By omnicronx on 9/23/2007 1:15:27 AM , Rating: 2
Then go buy one... folding@home awaits, you can help them reach 2TB!

RE: Well damn...
By afkrotch on 9/23/2007 1:54:42 AM , Rating: 2
The hell is 2 TB? Last I heard they recently hit 1 P eta f lop

RE: Well damn...
By omnicronx on 9/23/2007 2:12:21 AM , Rating: 2
Now if only i had a ps3, maybe i would know that. Maybe when 3 P eta F lops come along Sony can rename the PS3 as the PF3 to boost sales... god knows they will need it..

RE: Well damn...
By afkrotch on 9/23/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By gradoman on 9/23/2007 12:25:12 PM , Rating: 2

F@H works when it's idle, am I right? I'm thinking that people that care about that aren't gaming, more like wasting electricity.

RE: Well damn...
By Legionosh on 9/23/2007 1:44:41 PM , Rating: 2
..Folding @ home only runs when you tell it to run...

..and seeing as how the BIG guns are a 4.5 piece of garbage (LAIR) and the 6 HOUR EPIC (so much for Blu-Rays much VAUNTED storage) Heavenly Sword, you might as well run folding @ home to get SOME use out of your PS3..

Me? I use mine for my PS2 games and to play my Blu-Ray movies (I ALSO have the HD-DVD add for my 360 so no real bias on my part)'s not MY fault that there are no real reasons to OWN the PS3 as a game console.. a Blu-Ray player? Sure it's a very good priced one, no argument there.

But last I checked KAZ called the PS3 a GAME machine..

Who knows, maybe soon we'll see some games that are A) worth buying and B) not better on the 360.

Until then my 360 gets my next gen game time..

My PS3 can handle my PS2 games until then.

My two cents,

RE: Well damn...
By mles1551 on 9/23/2007 2:58:19 PM , Rating: 3
Maybe if you had better taste in your gaming choices you could find something to play on your PS3.

Sounds like you would be happier sticking to WoW on the PC

RE: Well damn...
By Legionosh on 9/24/2007 10:08:25 AM , Rating: 2
Better taste in gaming? You make it sound like I hate Sony my friend..

..I use my PS3 for my PS2 games and a Blu-Ray player, far from being the Sony hater you practically make me out to be.

(and I use LAIR and Heavenly Sword because they were SUPPOSED to be Sonys BIG guns for the Holiday if my using Sonys big titles made me "pick and choose" then my apologies..)

Like it or not the current PS3 library is at BEST average..

..what is SOUNDS like to me is that you are merely upset that your console of choice isn't giving you your moneys worth (and if you don't actually own a PS3 then my apologies for assuming as such, but you comment clearly makes it sound like you do).

That's not my fault nor my problem. I like that I own a PS3..granted it will be NICE when there are actual quality games to play that aren't A) a 3rd party port inferior to the 360 version and B) not a $10 per hour investment.

I did play WoW for a little bit (not sure what that has to do with anything). Once I got to level 21 or so I stopped playing (mainly because I don't have HOURS a day to wait on a party, etc. I usually played single player/solo for that exact reason)..not sure what you exactly meant by the whole WoW comment...maybe you'd like to clarify that a little?

I've also played a couple of other MMORPGs..FFXI, Everquest (briefly), Ultima Online (even shorter)..I've tried a few other trials..I decided while it's nice to have and ever expanding and ever changing world I couldn't justify the costs per month.

(The RPG genre is probably my favorite one. From Dragon Warrior to Final Fantasy to Baldurs Gate to Icewind Dale to Might and Magic to Morrowind...yeah, I have the WORST taste in games in would appear..)

I've been playing games since the Atari 2600. The first game I actually bought was Dragon Warrior for the NES (when it was new mind you). I've owned practically EVERY console except the virtual boy (and if I didn't own it my brother did. Between the two of us we have practically owned every U.S. released console..Neo Geo, 3D0..etc)

So I've played good games, bad games, seen games go from good to crap (GTA3 to San Andreas? NO drugs, thugs, and Ho's for me, thank you very much..why do people automatically think URBAN=Good? When USUALLY Urban=Crap!)

I've played Final Fantasy since part 1, all the classic NES games, PC games since Doom and Wolfenstein 3D..I've played many, many a game... next time you comment on my choice of games maybe you'll ask what I've played first and not assume whatever it was you assumed about me.

Just because Sonic, Ridge Racer 6.5, er I mean 7, and inferior 360 ports aren't my thing don't get upset with me.

Resistance:FoM was a good game, but I didn't care much for it. Not sure just failed to grab me. Ninja Gaiden Sigma? I'll just pay $10 for Ninja Gaiden Black and play that..same game except for what, 1-2 half a$$ levels and a lame female character? Not worth my $60 thank you very much.

VF 5? I'll just get the better version with online play.

So what does that leave for the PS3 this holiday (that isn't also on the 360 and that is worth paying $60 for)?

I do plan on buying Little Big Planet, but it's not system seller..definitely a niche title (much like Viva Pinata was)..and whenever MGS4 comes out (if it's ever 100% confirmed NOT going to the 360) I'll probably buy that as well..and Final Fantasy XIII is a must buy.

So do I have bad taste in games? That could be argued either way (though I think most people would say I have decent taste in games. Some people like FPS, others hate RPGs..but overall I think I have decent taste in games).. maybe it's your taste in games that is leaving the sour taste in your mouth?

My two cents,

RE: Well damn...
By afkrotch on 9/25/2007 10:16:35 PM , Rating: 2
Let me ask you this. Do you game 24/7, 365 days of the year on only one system? Odds are high that you didn't, so during those times you aren't, you can put the console to work by folding.

Me, I don't fold. I've got a PS3 and I've got three Xbox 360s (thank you RROD).

RE: Well damn...
By Legionosh on 9/26/2007 9:48:32 AM , Rating: 2

I think that was my point (in a round about you might as well put the PS3 to good use. I am not keen on leaving my consoles on 24/7 though.

Of course I don't play 24/7, 365..I have kids (which I only see on the weekends), a job and I have TV shows I like to watch when I can. But I do try to get in game time whenever I can.

I like my 360 a lot, but I WHOLE heartedly feel MS has got to get the failure issue under control. That is the only real negative thing about the console.

Once they get it 100% resolved I think they be in far better shape.

The only real complaint I hear for people not buying a 360 is the RROD issue. Not that the games suck, or that it costs too much, etc, etc. Some people complain about XBOX Live costing $7 a month (or $50/$60 a year...I pay it monthly personally), but the service is so far beyond the PSN it's not even funny. You throw in that Sony has delayed adding TV and Video to the Playstation Store until further notice and it only makes XBOX Live Marketplace look that much better.

I hate you've had the dreaded RROD. I had one on my launch console 2-3 months after I bought it, but MS replaced it with a new one. That one got traded in on an Elite which I a using now. So I am also on my 3rd 360, but for somewhat different reasons.


RE: Well damn...
By Bioniccrackmonk on 9/25/07, Rating: 0
RE: Well damn...
By Legionosh on 9/25/2007 9:27:19 AM , Rating: 2
Your comment makes NO sense WHAT SO EVER...

I never stated in ANY SHAPE, FORM or FASHION that folding came to the PS3 first. I am VERY well aware that it's been on the PC for a while now (I've been building/repairing PCs since the days of DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.1, so I am no "noob"). How did you get that idea from ANYTHING I typed?

You didn't because I said NOTHING that even VAGUELY hinted at that.

If that is your best rebuttal then you might as well hang up your hat.

(I still don't get how you got that idea from what I typed. NOTHING I said even REMOTELY makes mention of that)..

If you aren't referring to my comment then my mistake. It is under my comment and I assumed you were replying to me.

But if you are, I'd LOVE for you to show me where I said folding came to the PS3 first..I REALLY would...


P.S. also, if your comment WAS towards me, I noticed you didn't dispute or try to argue ANYTHING I pulled something out of the air to TRY to make an argument of ANY kind and went so far as trying to personally attack me..typical. Since you couldn't counter anything I said you make up something and more or less call me names.

'nuff said.

RE: Well damn...
By ShapeGSX on 9/22/2007 11:56:23 PM , Rating: 2
"Is it real or is it fake?"

That already happened with Project Gotham Racing 3, a 360 launch title. There were tons of block posts on Kotaku and Joystiq where the bloggers were questioning if the in game screen shots were really from in game or if they were photos.

RE: Well damn...
By crazyblackman on 9/23/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By Hemipower on 9/23/2007 1:02:47 AM , Rating: 2
I think your expecting a little to much. Like the omni dude said, PC are a lot more advanced than either console and it is still years behind that type of animation. You would never enjoy a good game with that type of prejudice.

I do agree with the EA thing. I used to buy it ever year when I had my ps2. I used to buy both madden and ncaa, mlb and live. But now I just skip them for quality games like bioshock, gears, medieval 2 zelda etc.

RE: Well damn...
By omnicronx on 9/23/2007 1:26:41 AM , Rating: 2
PC are a lot more advanced than either console and it is still years behind that type of animation.
I'd like to add, PC gaming animations are usually around 10 years behind movie animation. Furthermore console's are usually another 2-4 years behind PC's. Essentially we are now getting what the movie industry had for toy story around 10 years ago.

As for EA, many people do not understand how EA usually does things(at least how i see it). Most sports games (nhl, madden, nba) have two cycles, a graphics engine/maybe a few addons year, then follows up with a gameplay year with the tweaked graphics from the previous year. So knowing this i usually buy the game every second year. But sometimes i don't because games can be totally different, even though they look the same graphics wise. And its usually for the better. What you should do is trade in all the games from the previous year and get the new games cheaper, thats what i have been doing for the past few years.

RE: Well damn...
By sviola on 9/24/2007 11:11:58 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, but you have to take that info with a grain of salt, after all, animation in movies are run in a server farm and in games, in a single PC, which has a lot less computational power. You can't compare them, is like comparing apples and oranges. Consoles and PC games are somewhat closer for a comparison, altough a high end PC is much more powerful than any console.

RE: Well damn...
By ShapeGSX on 9/23/2007 1:15:29 AM , Rating: 2
These were screen shots from within the game.

RE: Well damn...
By omnicronx on 9/23/2007 12:40:36 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe...this will start a trend towards Xbox 360 consumer honesty
Sometimes I wonder where people like you pull this crap from? What do you think its some big conspiracy that people like 360 better? Being released earlier = market penetration = large fan base before competitor has any. Theres xbox 360 consumer honesty, deal with it. No 360 user is going around bragging about the reliability of their console so i don't see what anyone has anything to be honest about. Except for the fact the 360 has games, the ps3 doesnt. Folding@home is not a major selling point for most people.

This nextgen game development was supposed be a totally lifelike "is it real or fake" gaming experience.
No, its suppose to be next generation graphics.. thus the name NextGen. Neither the ps3 nor the 360 have the power to create lifelike graphics, its just not going to happen. PC graphics cards today still can't do it, and they are still a ways ahead of both consoles in terms or power.

RE: Well damn...
By crazyblackman on 9/23/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By omnicronx on 9/23/2007 1:49:03 AM , Rating: 2
tried and true, no fail strategy
It sure is, and considering thats about all Microsoft really does well, (Marketing) i do not see why you should be surprised. It's obviously worked wonders too, if one third of your consoles are defective and you can still achieve the highest attach rate compared to any console (wii included) by a fair margin, then you have to be doing something right. So once again, i really do not see what your argument is here.

RE: Well damn...
By crazyblackman on 9/23/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By jajig on 9/23/2007 10:46:46 AM , Rating: 2
To me it doesn't sound like omnicronx is defending Microsoft's business tactics just saying that they (business tactics) work and he and other people are happy with their consoles.

RE: Well damn...
By ZaethDekar on 9/23/2007 3:35:51 PM , Rating: 1
The thing with consoles is it always takes a few years for games to come out that are any good. Look at the PS2. Even now games are coming out with unpresidented graphics compared to when it first came out. I understand a lot ofi t is new techniques and rendering programs and compression, but thats all a part of video game creation.

As for why the 360 has better games. The only really good game to come out is from Microsoft, who built the 360. There are some other good games, yeah, but even with the PS3 there are some good games out.

Now in say another year and a half-2 years, lets see how far the PS3 + 360 are. My guess is the PS3 will be better off. Why? Blu-ray disc. More room = more content = better graphics, AI, and worlds to play in. Cell processor = way better performance. Also, with how cheap TV's are getting.. .I mean 500 bucks for a 32in flat pannel with 1080i resolution. hmm... 360 is pretty much capped at 720p while the PS3 can keep going to 1080p. That means it can look a lot more beautiful.

Thats just my 2 cents.

RE: Well damn...
By weskurtz0081 on 9/24/2007 4:29:21 PM , Rating: 2
Clearly you need to read more. First of all, the Cell design has been done a number of times in the past by other companies. Second of all, the GPU is going to be the deciding factor on how high the resolutions go with the PS3. The Cell just isn't that great of a CPU for gaming. Sony had an agenda and it just didn't work out for them.

RE: Well damn...
By crazyblackman on 9/23/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By acer905 on 9/24/2007 7:51:31 AM , Rating: 2
Oh for the love of god, the contraction is we're you freaking idiot. I don't really know whats worse, what you are saying or how poorly you are saying it. No wonder your posts get rated down so well

RE: Well damn...
By crazyblackman on 9/24/07, Rating: -1
RE: Well damn...
By acer905 on 9/25/2007 7:59:39 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, i did not miss a comma. However i will easily admit to missing an apostrophe on "what's". However once again. You are a freaking idiot. I don't care if what you say is truth or not because the way you say things makese me think that you dropped out of school in kindergarden, thus making anything you say worthless. (also, perhaps if you actually expanded your vocabulary to something beyond childish swearing, you might be able to get your point across)

RE: Well damn...
By Blight AC on 9/24/2007 12:38:00 PM , Rating: 1
Meh... Sony makes money by selling you promises. Looks like your hooked, grab your ankles, Sony loves ya.

RE: Well damn...
By Locutus465 on 9/24/2007 11:41:52 AM , Rating: 1
Not to defend MS on the RROD issue, clearly they need to adjust the QA process (something they've probably already done). Microsoft them selves acknowlege the issue and have taken steps to correct the issue (3 year retroactive warentee regarding RROD).

As far as the person who has been griping about buying 3 consoles... That's no one forced him to buy new consoles rather than send the system into Microsoft to be repaired. He'd be in a much better place right now if he had even paid for RROD repairs rather than buy a whole new system, if he had done that he would have seen all his repair payments come back to him in the form of checks from Microsoft (every warrentee extension has been retroactive).

No one will defend the x-box failure rate, but Microsoft has been very good about getting repairs done timely (from all reports I've seen), and they have been great about convering their product, and backing their customers. You really can't ask for more than Microsoft has done at this point given the QA failure. It's clear that they've even made managerial changes due to the RROD issue (anyone remember the DT post about a major x-box player making a move to EA?)

RE: Well damn...
By logaldinho on 9/23/2007 6:11:02 PM , Rating: 2
has sony even delivered on their console yet? everything i hear about now are features that microsoft has offered since day1, and sony is bringing it sometime in 2008? thats some development time for a console released a year ago.

RE: Well damn...
By Locutus465 on 9/23/2007 12:38:31 AM , Rating: 2
I'm just curious, at any time did you actually try getting warentee service? Do you realize that every time Microsoft extended it's warentee it has been retroactive? So even if you paid for a RROD repair, they will pay you back for your expenses? Did you try posing your questions about how to obtain warentee service for your Japanese console to Microsoft?

RE: Well damn...
By RMSe17 on 9/23/2007 2:59:20 PM , Rating: 2
I point them to a PC. It's superior to all console systems in that not only can it play games that are more complex and better looking, play all multimedia better or faster, but also do all the office work, and maybe even real work (if it is computer based, programming, design, etc). One system to do it all. :)

RE: Well damn...
By BansheeX on 9/24/2007 12:39:42 PM , Rating: 1
...except it has a much smaller library of games, and developers are constantly having to consider that only a small percentage of gamers have hardware capable of running their new game with all the fancy technological improvements. So basically, while the PC might be more capable with the highest end hardware, you aren't going to get many games for that hardware when so few people have it. Consoles don't have that problem. Heck, PC games continue to be released on multiple CDs because publishers still have to consider all the people without dvd-reading capability. There also remains the issue of a non-uniform packaging. I went to the store the other day and oblivion and several other games are still in cardboard boxes while everything else in a thick dvd case. Why? Shall I also bring up the issue of genre suitability? Many genres, like fighting games, for example, don't even show up on the PC because they need a gamepad, and once again, the minority of pc gamers even have a gamepad for their pc, which dissuades developers from porting these genres to the pc. Should I talk about the higher number of bugs now on PC games, or install times, or video card driver dependencies? No, I'll stop there.

RE: Well damn...
By elgoliath on 9/24/2007 8:40:18 PM , Rating: 2
You are wrong, wrong, wrong. Of all the platforms, the PC has the largest library by far. Are you forgetting that I can pretty much play any game ever released for the windows and or DOS platform?

Second, developers code for the average PC with a nod to people with lower and higher end spec's (have you ever looked in the video options of most PC titles?).

One of consoles greatest assets, you are correct here, is the fact that they are uniform (per console), but that is also one of it's worst enemies- you can't do incremental upgrades nor can you take advantage of the latest and greatest tech- you have to wait 1 to 5 years.

So, non-uniform packaging is an issue how? The only uniform thing that needs to be on the package is there and I have yet to see one that doesn't have it: the recommended spec's. I could care less how big or non-uniform a box is.

Fighting only shows up on consoles? The same could be said for FPS' and PC's. Every 360 sold comes with a free controller that hooks up to your PC btw-

Yes, you should stop there-

RE: Well damn...
By hr824 on 9/25/2007 6:16:23 PM , Rating: 2
Ya know I use to buy microsoft mice but there was a noticeable change in the quality of them a year or so back. The wheel and switch were failing at twice the rate I was use too. so I stoped buying them.

My 360 killed my gutiar hero disk and I had a RROD faliure.
I have it back, but now the power supply is dead.

Your right it doesn't make sence to switch, but also doesn't make sence to throw good money after bad. I'm done with the whole console thing. I was just gona switch to the ps3 but I think I will dust off my golf clubs instead and keep my gaming to the pc where it belongs.

It's a shame too I like the 360, Some day (soon I hope) Microsoft and others will realize that nickel and diming harware cost is not the best long tearm busness plan.

RE: Well damn...
By ruibing on 9/22/2007 10:24:12 PM , Rating: 2
You'd think that with all the money Microsoft gave their marketing people, they would put a quarter into each copy of the game to make it more durable. It looks like they haven't learnt their lesson from their old 360s. I think they are going to extend the warranties on these discs as well.

I've been buying a lot of used games on ebay and they have all been scratch free when they've arrived (I run Nero's CD Speed's quality scan on each disc).

RE: Well damn...
By jajig on 9/23/07, Rating: 0
RE: Well damn...
By FITCamaro on 9/23/07, Rating: 0
RE: Well damn...
By Hemipower on 9/23/2007 1:09:50 AM , Rating: 2
Shit does happen but it is still microsoft's fault as they should be checking there products for quality control. If your the owner of the product and distributing it then you should be held accountable even if you outsource another company to make the cases! Period!

RE: Well damn...
By omnicronx on 9/23/2007 1:37:19 AM , Rating: 1
The product is not even out yet, arnt you jumping the gun a bit here? It's not like you have to send the disc back to MS and wait 6 weeks to get it back. You simply go back to the store, tell the problem they probably know about and you get another disc. Or knowing what you know now, check your set before you leave the store, if you shake it and discs move, go return it. Furthermore if this story is on DT, Microsoft probably knows about it, this could be problem wit the first shipments, or some stores may even go as far as not put these sets on the shelves.. who knows?

Lets just not jump the gun here before we know the facts.

RE: Well damn...
By afkrotch on 9/23/2007 3:16:08 AM , Rating: 2
Ya, they can have a massive recall and delay the game by a few weeks as they redesign the case, produce the new product, and then ship the product to retailers.

RE: Well damn...
By Locutus465 on 9/23/2007 12:34:24 AM , Rating: 2
You sir, are the average Xbox 360 customer that has learned to accept less for your money. Microsoft loves you. They keep on proving it over and over.

How do you figure? My 360 has not had a single real issue since I bought it, and seems to run cool enough. The gaming experience is top notch, I love the HD movie content and the HD-DVD upgrade was great. So please explain to me how I'm settling for less? Yes Microsoft has had some issues with this generation, but they stand behind their work, offer quick turn around times on repairs and excellent customer service.

RE: Well damn...
By afkrotch on 9/23/07, Rating: 0
RE: Well damn...
By Locutus465 on 9/24/2007 9:44:21 PM , Rating: 2
It took another company doing a study and providing evidence that failure rates was somewhere in the 30% range, until Microsoft decided to extend warranty and also provide reimbursement for repair costs for old customers.

This is not true, the warentee was extended twice, once before the 30% figure came out then again after (the current 3 year one). As far as I know, there isn't anyone who has (in the end) lost money on RROD repairs... Unless they elected to not send in their unit for repairs and buy new ones :P

RE: Well damn...
By afkrotch on 9/25/2007 10:38:35 PM , Rating: 2
Time is money and everyone has lost money on RROD repairs. Does Microsoft reimburse for shipping expenses? Does Microsoft reimburse for loss of time for preparing the shipment? Does Microsoft reimburse for loss of the console for X amount of time?

When there's such an issue, there's always some kind of loss to the consumer. Either money or time. In the Xbox 360 case, probably both.

RE: Well damn...
By weskurtz0081 on 9/23/2007 3:37:06 PM , Rating: 1
Your a clown. First, MS probably does not package the disks. The company that does should be blamed. Second, both camps have expensive games in the $60+ range. It is obvious that you are simply a Sony shill. You sir need to get a life.

RE: Well damn...
By kamel5547 on 9/23/2007 8:45:09 PM , Rating: 2
Well, blaming MS isn't completely offbase.

a) they helped design the packaging (with a property like Halo I would think they would) and didn't perform enough QC (and if the article is correct and virtually every copy has a loose disc then they should ahve caught it).
b) They chose a non-standard packaging, and did not oversee the result for what is one of their premier properties

Either way it is MS's fault (due to the value of the property it isn't even inderctly their fault IMO). I expect they will replace all the discs (I really am ambivelent about them as a company), but they should have caught this. SImply mailing a dozen copies to themselves would have been a good idea, just to see how the non-standard packaging held up.

RE: Well damn...
By weskurtz0081 on 9/24/2007 9:05:22 AM , Rating: 1
That guy is still a clown. He is a Sony shill and just wants to start crap.

RE: Well damn...
By Locutus465 on 9/25/2007 1:41:26 AM , Rating: 3
Well, after starting this massive thread... I figured I'd report that my limited edition made it to me in great shape! Game disc was seated nicely (though yes, the retention system is bad), speacial features disc was loose and had minor "scratching", it rubbed out though. That was the first package I picked up too...

The GameStop I went to also had extra game discs to accomdate Limited Edition issues, so it seems like when this was discovered some one down the line decided to compansate, can't say if it was MS or not. From what I was being told they only had extra game discs on hand though... At anyrate, I've played just a little bit so far, enough to say that this game is totally going to rock the house!!! I'M SO GLAD I MADE THE LEAP AND GOT MY 360 WHEN I DID!!!

There are PAL games now?
By MrDiSante on 9/22/07, Rating: 0
RE: There are PAL games now?
By Marcus Yam on 9/22/2007 8:28:52 PM , Rating: 3
Believe it or not, some people play their Xbox 360 consoles on standard definition PAL or NTSC televisions.

Not everyone on Earth has an HDTV. Strange, but true!

RE: There are PAL games now?
By Hemipower on 9/23/2007 1:05:29 AM , Rating: 2
I thought pal was just a region thing. I think the guy meant European copies of the game.

RE: There are PAL games now?
By Johnmcl7 on 9/23/2007 4:58:56 AM , Rating: 2
It is a television standard although with the 360 it is often to used to denote region - don't have a 360 case right beside me but fairly sure they are actually badged PAL so the term is accurate especially as not all games are region free.


RE: There are PAL games now?
By acer905 on 9/24/2007 8:04:01 AM , Rating: 3
Yup, for many people getting one of the HDTV's is a total waste of money. Yesterday, for the first time ever, i actually saw an HDTV that looked as good as my CRT does. I think its amazing how it takes a new HD-DVD or Blu-Ray to give the same image quailty on an LCD or Plasma tv as DVD does on a CRT. But i guess thats the trade off, depth for inamge quality. Or at least thats what my eyes have been able to tell

RE: There are PAL games now?
By Locutus465 on 9/24/2007 9:51:35 PM , Rating: 2
I wouldn't take too much stock in what you see in the stores... If you buy a quality set (dropping in price all the time) and set it up your self you'll an awesome picture, better than I ever got on my 28" JVC (which has the best picture on compoent cables I had ever seen when I bought the TV). Currently I run a Toshiba 50" slim DLP that "only" goes up to 720P. Honestly with HD-DVD content coming in via HDMI the picture beats anything I could get before, I'm sure if I had spent the extra $1000 for 1080 it would be mind blowing and such, but frankely that much wasn't worth it to me.

That said, even at $1,000 the TV is out of range of the average families reach. It's just not practical enough yet, but when you consider how much a set like this used to cost, it's not going to be long before these things are standard...

RE: There are PAL games now?
By Abolyss on 9/23/2007 6:45:18 AM , Rating: 2
This is actually the European setting for games and such in america its NTSC....i live in europe so i have to go through waiting longer for games as NTSC wont work on my PAL system.

sucks but thats life!!

well thats a big
By Hyperlite on 9/22/2007 9:01:22 PM , Rating: 2

RE: well thats a big
By shabby on 9/22/2007 9:38:20 PM , Rating: 2
Oops indeed, i can see it now... everyone going for the LE version at the stores will be shaking it trying to see if its loose.

RE: well thats a big
By killerroach on 9/22/2007 11:54:46 PM , Rating: 3
Considering that the Halo 3 release date is going to be like Christmas to a lot of gamers, the sight of people shaking their "presents" just seems to make sense.

I'm sure Microsoft will respond pretty quickly to this news, but it's sad that it has to happen.

Wow, Microsoft can cut costs even more?
By neothe0ne on 9/22/2007 10:22:40 PM , Rating: 2
Looks like 3-year 360 warranty is biting 360 owners in the ass a different way. They couldn't reuse the casing Halo 2 Limited Edition used? Those used a real 2-disc holder, this is just sad that Halo 3 has been made worse in at least this way.

RE: Wow, Microsoft can cut costs even more?
By PrimarchLion on 9/23/2007 12:25:38 AM , Rating: 2
I was hoping they would just reuse the Halo 2 cases. I thought they were pretty nice.

By Locutus465 on 9/24/2007 9:54:31 PM , Rating: 2
I like the Halo 3 black Tin, my only critisim is that it is a bit on the thick side... Well ok, besides the fact that the DVD retention system is flawed, lol. I'm heading out to gamestop in not too terribly long now. I want to be sure I'm up in front enough that I can rattle a few tins and listen for loose discs.

Limited Edition
By MonkeyPaw on 9/22/2007 11:25:11 PM , Rating: 5
I guess in this case "Limited Edition" means the disc has a limited lifespan.

By MrPickins on 9/22/2007 11:04:15 PM , Rating: 3


Case shape
By Rickl3r on 9/22/2007 8:20:38 PM , Rating: 2
I hope the regular version doesn't have a case shaped like that I'd like all my xbox games to be uniformly the same.

Uh Oh!
By Quiescent on 9/22/2007 9:02:02 PM , Rating: 2
I can just imagine the feedback that the company will receive. I know it's highly likely that some people might not think much of it being outside of it's holder and think that they were scratched through other ways.

I really never seen such a flimsy design. It's truly just sad to see. Looks like we'll be seeing more iRate kids.

By MrPieGuy on 9/22/2007 10:06:07 PM , Rating: 2
This is just Karma for getting it to early. I.e. Before me.

By jay401 on 9/23/2007 5:39:58 PM , Rating: 2
It's like everything else is perfect about a launch and then something mind-numbingly preventable like this happens. =(

Stupid cases
By radzer0 on 9/24/2007 12:14:15 AM , Rating: 2
Personaly. I HATE these new cases.

What happened to the nice halo2 LE case? I know the 2 cds on top each other wasnt a great design but they could fix that pretty easy probaly.

These new things are stamped tin with plastic in them. Its like the GOW limited. a paper with plastic thing glued to it. Open and close it 20-30times and the glue gives.

doesn't suprise me
By narcispy on 9/24/2007 9:51:18 AM , Rating: 2
It really doesn't suprise me, look the 360 still has problems scratching the discs while playing. I have a copy of Gears that I can't use anymore because theres a huge ring scratched around the outside edge all because of those drives. I find it funny this being on the collectors edition.

Calm Down
By clovell on 9/24/2007 11:21:27 AM , Rating: 2
I've gotta admit - when I first read this topic, my knee-jerk reaction was Oh Em Gee - as I have a H3 Limited Ed. on pre-order. But I saw all the hate and flames and had to step back.

What I see from the responses to the article are God-save-us-all prophecies of doomsday for all H3 LE buyers, that Microsoft has the mark of the beast, and that all allied with it will surely follow it to their doom.

Get real. A few guys on some forum had some scratched discs. Now, we have an epidemic? Please. I think you guys are reading too far into this (most of you motivated by obvious personal bias). How do we know that it wasn't an isolated defect or that the UPS man didn't drop kick the box a few times over a bad day? Easy - we don't. Calm down and quit manufacturing crises...

Rough couriers...
By raddimus on 9/24/2007 6:49:02 PM , Rating: 2
I picked up my copy 9 hours ago (midnight Australia) and it was fine - the EB manager had said that he hadn't heard a single rattle in the entire shipment. When I opened it and tried to remove a disc, the hubs actually grip quite well to the disc, to the point where I started to worry about breaking the disc. I'm not sure if Australia has slightly different packaging (looks the same, but maybe a different manufacturer has led to different tolerances), but I have heard lots of stories about rough couriers in the US that dont' treat packages with respect,m perhaps this is part of the problem?

Halo 3 Gamers do not sweat it
By jmurbank on 9/26/2007 2:37:48 AM , Rating: 2
I can careless about the game, but is Xbox360 discs DVD? If so, scratches on DVD data discs will not hurt the quality of the data like some people thought. DVD discs includes ECC to make sure data is correct. In simpler terms there are two copies of the data are scattered among the disc. The minimal scratches that I have seen on pictures all over internet is puny compared to disc abuse of gamers swapping discs.

Use disc skins from your local computer or electronic stores. They should minimize future scratches. Also there is SkipDr by Digital Innovations to finely sand out the scratches.

If the Xbox360 scratched the disc, then it is your fault that the drive is dirty and you should clean it. If you are not using it as a collector's item, ignore the scratches.

I have read that PS1 and maybe PS2 discs do not have protective coating to minimize scratches. During those years have not yet read any complaints of the quality of the packaging.

I have seen the worst packaging schemes during the years. The worst is a paper sleeve for CD. Sure the disc will not move around because it is snug, but the paper will then attract dirt from the oils that is transfer from your fingers to the paper.

As with all Microsoft products, they rush the order to deliver.

By Runiteshark on 9/22/2007 8:51:20 PM , Rating: 1
Its pretty funny when cheap $9 games have better cases then this.

Nothing new here.
By SiliconAddict on 9/23/2007 3:41:22 AM , Rating: 1
I run across this on DVD's all the time. It comes down to people packing these things too fast so that all the clips are in place or simply cheap ass cases.

Shake the box.
By Abolyss on 9/23/2007 6:49:49 AM , Rating: 1
The second they hand me that game (ill be the first one in my town to get it =]) im gonna shake it a bit. tell the clerk the story and see if they will let me check the game before i leave...or at least give me a new one that when i shake it it isnt flying around inside. ill be getting the legendary eventually my g/f is buying me it...but the game wont work as shes getting it in america and i live in europe.....i just cant wait to get that helmet.....its so awesome!!!

Wow, this is trivial info.
By gochichi on 9/23/07, Rating: -1
"If you mod me down, I will become more insightful than you can possibly imagine." -- Slashdot

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