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eBay has the last laugh at its sellers expense, throws a bit of sand in boycotters faces with earnings report

Apparently, eBay's policy changes are having desirable effects, despite the massive public outcry the company received.  While the company cut its listing fees, it more than made up for it by significantly raising its commissions on successful sales, particularly on low-priced items such as video games and CDs.  The higher rates along with the elimination of negative seller feedback to the buyer created outcry among many loyal eBay sellers.

Some sellers tried to boycott eBay.  Initial metrics seemed to show the boycott to be working -- listings were decreasing and sales were down, by most official counts, although eBay insisted they weren't.

However eBay soon rebounded and resumed largely business as usual, despite having lost a few loyal sellers.  As DailyTech's Shane McGlaun wrote in a blog, sellers really had few choices -- Amazon.com only allows resale of select items such as CDs or books, and Craigslist.com is avoided by many, due to its unseemly reputation as a hotbed for illegal activity.  Most sellers were stuck with eBay, whether they loved it or hated it.

On Wednesday, eBay CEO John Donahoe announced a stronger than expected earnings report, with the company reporting $2.19B USD in revenue, a 24 percent increase over Q1 2007.  The performance significantly beat analyst expectations.  Net income also rose 22 percent to $562M USD.

Despite the boycott, listings jumped 10 percent to 647.4 million, which eBay attributes to the listing fee cuts.  However, eBay did admit that its "conversion rate", the percentage of sales ending in success, "declined only slightly", though eBay would not reveal exact figures.  The total "gross merchandise volume", a metric measuring the value of goods sold on eBay and associated properties, experienced 10 percent growth to $16M USD

However, while eBay may have a bit of grounds to gloat over the boycotting sellers, the long-term outlook for the company is not quite as peachy.  In 2008's first quarter, eBay had 83.9 million active users, up just over one percent from last year, at 82.9 million users.  The stagnant growth indicates that eBay may be reaching the market saturation point.

For a company at a market saturation point, customer satisfaction becomes increasingly important.  EBay CFO Bob Swan noted, "We've concluded that the best way to grow our active user base is by not losing any of them."

However, while Donahoe may not want to lose his users, his company's policy certainly threatens to send some users packing, or at least slow growth further.  Next month, the company will eliminate negative feedback from sellers to buyers, taking away a major tool which sellers could use to safeguard themselves against malicious customers.  While Power Sellers will have some new protections, normal sellers will find themselves in a much more dangerous situation, at the mercy of their buyer's reviews.

Donahoe feels that it’s a buyers’ market, and that the changes are necessary, whether sellers like it or not.  He states, "We are extremely focused on improving the buyer experience on eBay.  This is not to say that sellers are not important to us, but our belief is and has always been that what is good for buyers is ultimately good for sellers."

Swan said that the slowing U.S. economy is catching up to eBay as well.  He mentions, "We saw a slowing in buyers' propensity to buy toward the end of the quarter."

This coming month eBay plans to step up its coupon initiatives, to try to lure buyers to buy more and buy more often.  The move continues eBay's focus on giving the buyer the best benefits.

Perhaps emboldened by its modest success eBay's management says they will be sticking with their new policies no matter how much sellers complain.  Said Donahoe, "As we expected, some of the announcements generated a lot of passion from our community.  We stayed the course on the changes that we believe are critical for the overall health of the marketplace and the long-term success of our community of users.  We may have some sellers that make some noise, but we're absolutely confident of the direction we're going."

The only minor concession eBay made was to further reduce the listing fees for low price items, helping to lessen the sting of the particularly large commission increase.



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Regardless of what eBay thinks, or is saying...
By Motoman on 4/18/2008 1:22:39 PM , Rating: 5
...their time is limited. Attempting to boost your buyers' power over your sellers may get you short-term profit, but as time goes on and the sellers get tired of the abuse, they'll stop selling. And no matter how many buyers you have, if there's no sellers, you're dead.

I have a 99%+ satisfaction rating at 440 on eBay as a buyer and seller. Since they made the policy changes, I have continued to bid on items as a buyer, but will never sell anything there again. Frankly, you're an absolute idiot to try to sell on eBay anymore...it's a hostile environment to sellers, in more ways than one.

eBay will continue to lose sellers, and they're not going to admit they're wrong until other auction houses gain traction and put the hurt on them (if even then).

I'm biding my time to see what happens with other online auction places before I start doing auctions again. eBay has permanently lost me, and I am certain that millions more are following.




By MatthiasF on 4/18/2008 1:34:21 PM , Rating: 4
The culture on Ebay was such that people avoided criticism because one side or the other would rate in retribution. It's not the way to keep things civil or allow truthful ratings.

The change had to happen and to expect ratings from only sellers is far more ridiculous, since buyers well outnumber them.

As far as I'm concerned, this changes nothing. The numbers might fluctuate in ratings for awhile, but in the long run Ebay will be better off.

I personally avoid rating others on Ebay entirely, and I've been doing fine for 9 years, buying and selling.


By mcmilljb on 4/18/2008 2:41:35 PM , Rating: 3
I find the rating system important. Maybe they should have a buyer rating and a seller rating separately. Mixing the 2 together doesn't really help anyone. Not being able to leave negative feedback for buyer is wrong, although the buyer has less ways to screw over the seller than the other way. They should keep negative feedback for not paying, not paying promptly, and not following rules that the seller has clearly listed. The best way to do fair feedback is to not have it show up until both parties have posted their feedback, then you can't have people leaving negative feedback as a response. Plus force people to leave feedback, it helps everyone by doing it.

I think if they wanted growth to continue, they would quit worrying about more nickels and dimes on the listed items by increasing the effectiveness of being able to buy stuff. If they would make it easier for people to find stuff they wanted, they would get more customers interested. Then after you generate more interest, make it safer or even feel safer to buy on ebay. I also think they should audit sellers to get people who are committing fraud. Also charging for shipping costs on paypal, increases the cost for the end user(it's like a tax on shipping).


By othercents on 4/18/2008 5:58:22 PM , Rating: 2
You do really need buyer ratings to allow sellers to limit who buys from them especially on big ticket items. You don't want to have an account that is 1 day old bidding your items just to find out that some competitor is trying to crash your auction.

quote:
The best way to do fair feedback is to not have it show up until both parties have posted their feedback, then you can't have people leaving negative feedback as a response.

This is exactly what I told my friend. Give 30 days for feedback and after that point feedback is locked and no more feedback is allowed. Only show feedback after both parties have posted, or the 30 days is up. I know on the buyer side the original feedback system was hostile. When a seller sells thousands of items per month and a buyer tries to buy one item, but gets screwed in the item and they also get their account screwed because the seller is going to put bad feedback onto the buyer when the buyer leaves bad feedback.

Blind feedback system is the best way to go.

Other


By JoshuaBuss on 4/20/2008 12:36:37 PM , Rating: 2
does no one use ubid anymore?


RE: Regardless of what eBay thinks, or is saying...
By kinnoch on 4/18/2008 5:59:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The best way to do fair feedback is to not have it show up until both parties have posted their feedback, then you can't have people leaving negative feedback as a response.


That solution looks good at first, but there is a huge problem with it. The problem is that scammers and bad sellers know they are going to give the customer a bad experience, so they will give the buyer negative feedback no matter what the buyers response is. They can then use this preemptive negative response to negotiate a mutual feedback withdrawal if needed.

The people who abuse the system today, will be the same people who abuse the double blind system.


By AlexWade on 4/19/2008 9:06:16 AM , Rating: 2
How about this? Use the double-blind feedback system. Also have a way to report scammers. If eBay determines that an user is indeed a scammer, then delete all feedback made by the scammer. Ideally, follow up on every request but give priority to scammers with multiple incidents.

That solution would require eBay vigilance, something I doubt they know anything about.


By phxfreddy on 4/19/2008 2:31:52 AM , Rating: 2
The way to effectively boycott ebay is as follows:

Since buyer feedback has been quite effectively neutered....Sellers should simply quite placing feedback.

This will have integral term effect ( think PID ) on their buyer base. The seller will be able to sell but the new buyers ability to buy will be curtailed. ( I quite often screen on the basis of BUYER feedback. Overseas buying is VERY VERY VERY sensitive to this )


RE: Regardless of what eBay thinks, or is saying...
By jgp on 4/20/2008 4:11:32 PM , Rating: 2
eBay can easily counter that by making it a violation of the TOS to screen based on feedback. They can even add language to the TOS stating that the seller is legally bound to sell the item to the highest bidder regardless of the higest bidder's feedback rating. That would make any seller who discriminates based on feedback open to lawsuits from both eBay and the buyer.


By phxfreddy on 4/20/2008 5:35:50 PM , Rating: 2
They let you add caveats. They would absolutely kill international dead if they did as you said. It would be too risky to list that it would cease.


By Omega215D on 4/19/2008 7:30:46 AM , Rating: 2
Bobcats instead of chairs, how novel.

http://www.xkcd.com/325/


By phxfreddy on 4/19/2008 10:52:01 AM , Rating: 2
Yes really? If you've ever sat in a bobcat before you know how painful that can be!


By Alexstarfire on 4/19/2008 7:16:08 AM , Rating: 2
Well, it might be bad from an eBay perspective, but once you get into Paypal realm, likely what you will pay through, then it's all on the buyer. Buyer has total control in Paypal. You can provide proof that you shipped the item to them and still get your money taken away from you. Though, on the other hand, if the seller removes the money from the account then the buyer gets screwed cause Paypal won't do anything about it. I think to be able to receive payments from eBay that you should be required to have a verified bank account, that way Paypal can just charge your bank if you try to screw them over. Course, then the buyer is in total control.


By Zoomer on 4/22/2008 12:51:49 AM , Rating: 2
It wouldn't work. A scammer can easily close the bank account right after the funds hit.

After the x months before paypal does anything, the account will be well and truly closed and settled.


By hobbes7869 on 4/19/2008 8:31:44 AM , Rating: 2
I would disagree that buyers well out number sellers on Ebay. Afterall there is only one buyer per item sold, and there are always a number of items that go unsold. There are plenty of potential buyers, yes. I think that ratings are indeed we worth it for both sides. I have utilized ebay for about the past 5 years, and do really look at whether sellers are reputable. It is important to keep that. On the flip side, I like to make sure that when people are bidding, they are known for prompt payment etc. I don't care too much about other things such as this person was hard to communicate with etc, because that has much less bearing on whether I will receive my money. Perhaps simple comments would be more beneficial, and let the seller beware based on reading the comments


RE: Regardless of what eBay thinks, or is saying...
By dever on 4/18/2008 1:39:53 PM , Rating: 2
Ebay may lose some sellers, but if buyers remain, then demand will prevail and sellers will deliver (even if that means fewer sellers fill in the gap for those missing).

Now, if the loss of sellers impacts the consumer experience (price or otherwise) then, yes, customers will start migrating away. Just my 2 cents.


By Adonlude on 4/18/2008 4:19:33 PM , Rating: 5
It's not just about buyer/seller ratios anymore. Ebay is a huge company and they are probably reaching market saturation. Our dog eat dog stock market requires continual profit growth. Ebay used to provide that growth by attracting more customers but they are running out of new customers. This time Ebay was able to raise fees to provide the required profit growth but don't expect them to be able to do that for many more quarters. I see Ebay becoming stagnant which will mean a stock value decline. The auction sector seems ripe for a new player ready to play the growth game.


By 16nm on 4/18/2008 6:13:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I see Ebay becoming stagnant which will mean a stock value decline. The auction sector seems ripe for a new player ready to play the growth game.


Since Google seems happy sitting on its hands with regard to auctions.google.com and Microsoft is having no luck with Yahoo!, perhaps Microsoft could think about putting a strategy together to tackle this segment of the Internet. It has lots of money burning a hole in its pocket, it might as well do something with it. I'm very frustrated with eBay. Its fees are not realistic for the service it provides. It's just a listing service not unlike craigslist. It's not like eBay has to pay auctioneers!

I have one of my tabs homed to My eBay which is odd because I don't use it much anymore. Maybe it's time to have one less tab and enjoy a tad more free memory when browsing.


By xsilver on 4/18/2008 11:35:30 PM , Rating: 4
Think those in the USA have got it bad?
EBay australia has just decided to implement a paypal only payment policy for ALL ebay transactions!
Starting july, ebay is going to double dip on ebay fees and then paypal fees.

Lots of sellers refusing to use paypal are leaving but we'll have to wait and see on what happens.

http://pages.ebay.com.au/useprotection/changes.htm...

Scamming will still occur as paypal australia does not support the "confirmed address" system so the chargback system is just a huge free for all.


By jskirwin on 4/18/2008 2:32:44 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
eBay has permanently lost me, and I am certain that millions more are following.


Me too. As a buyer/seller who tends to do more of the former than the latter (100% fb on 400+/-), I decided to use the boycott as a holiday from ebay. 2 months later I haven't gone back once.

I've found that for many of the smaller items it made more sense to donate them and take the tax rightoff than deal with the hassle of preparing/listing/shipping on Ebay. For books/CDs I used Amazon; everything else went to charity. Why should I work hard to give most of what I earn to eBay?

I don't miss being on the treadmill. Buyers have become incredibly whiney and demanding, treating sellers like each had Nordstrom's customer service policy; the new no-neg feedback policy will make the situation even worse.

But hey, the market has spoken. eBay is in the $$$ - just not in any of mine anymore. We both win! Woohoo!


By omnicronx on 4/18/2008 4:14:36 PM , Rating: 2
Totally agree with you, it's just not worth it to sell on ebay anymore unless you are doing so in mass quantities. The average seller is not in that situation, they will sell in bulk, but not enough to make up for the listing prices and commissions.


RE: Regardless of what eBay thinks, or is saying...
By walk2k on 4/18/2008 4:33:44 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
And no matter how many buyers you have, if there's no sellers, you're dead.
Well, no, if there are buyers there WILL be sellers. It's basic Economics 101.


RE: Regardless of what eBay thinks, or is saying...
By xsilver on 4/18/2008 11:38:23 PM , Rating: 4
you forgot economics 102 :P

There is a HUGE market to sell ferrari's for 10k each, why is no one selling them??

economics 102 - sellers have to make money, if not, the market dies.


By darkpaw on 4/20/2008 1:11:05 PM , Rating: 2
Ah, the laws of economics only apply in a fair market though.

A legitimate seller might not be able to make money, but the scammers still will. Lot easier to make money on fakes then the real thing.

Ebay, home of scams and fakes!


By mindless1 on 4/18/2008 6:29:54 PM , Rating: 2
I can't agree. Many times as an eBay buyer I would have downrated the seller because they misrepresented the product, but did not do so because it was a low cost item that in best case I would have to pay to return or in worst, I'd potentially get a negative rating when my only part in the transaction was to pay promptly for what was advertised, listed.

Basically, there should be inequality in the rating system in that it favors buyers, because there is inequality in the sale because the seller gets paid before shipping the item, before the buyer can confirm it is really what was listed, (Or works, or is whole instead of broken in some cases). Remember that in a real brick-n-mortar store, the buyer is not at this disadvantage for the most part, they have the physical product in front of them already and can at that point choose not to buy it.

In the end the bad buyers and sellers both make things worse for the rest of us, but apparently ebay has decided they have a greater surplus of sellers than buyers and also realizes that a buyer is more likely to become a seller if they didn't get negative ratings as a buyer because often people won't do full research of a rating, they just look at the ratio if the auction is ending very soon.

Look at it a different way. Even if you were to unfairly get negative ratings, those who do worse at their job will get more of them. Maybe it's not really necessary to have a 100% perfect record, that it is not really a good indication of a seller when so many have almost if not 100% when obviously some of those sellers are better than others. A rating system with 100 percentage points should seek to use all 100 of those percentage points as accurately as possible.

Further, when I have time to do so I do check to see what the buyer feedback was when there is a negative rating, sometimes it's clear the buyer is an idiot but other times has a legitimate concern or at least more information about what they bought that might be of interest.

Maybe the best would be arbitration of ratings before either the buyer or seller could get them posted and permanent. Unfortunately that would dip into ebay's profits having to employ people to do it.


Boycotts are ridiculous and usually useless.
By Domicinator on 4/18/2008 10:55:08 PM , Rating: 3
There I said it. And the most useless of all useless boycotts are internet-based boycotts. They have never worked and they never will. Your average joe internet shopper or seller probably knows nothing about this boycott anyway.

Ebay is going to go out of business? That's like saying the whole internet is going to die. Ebay is a household name, and these days I doubt that very few online shopping sessions don't include at least a brief look on Ebay.




RE: Boycotts are ridiculous and usually useless.
By jskirwin on 4/19/2008 6:04:58 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Ebay is going to go out of business? That's like saying the whole internet is going to die.


Ebay is one business. It's not the network of businesses, organizations and people called the "Internet". Businesses go under all the time; it wasn't that long ago when CompUSA ran ComputerCity and other PC retailers out of business. Now it is gone.

Ebay has thrived because the cost of entry to compete against it is huge. But it is not impossible. If Google or Microsoft decided to compete against Ebay, it would not be able to compete. Why? Because this is as good as it gets for the firm earnings wise. Any loss of business would kill it quickly - or force it to innovate in ways that it has never had to before. After 10 years of so of watching the firm, I just don't see the latter happening.


By Domicinator on 4/19/2008 10:19:23 PM , Rating: 3
I think you took my comparison a bit too literally. I was just trying to say that I think the notion of eBay going out of business because of a so called "boycott" is preposterous. Most users probably don't even know about it. The percentage of computer/internet/technology users who actually read tech websites, gaming websites, etc. is actually very small. That's the only place they would have really heard about this except for maybe a side note on a news cast or something. Nobody is going to care about this eBay boycott anymore than they care about any other boycott.

There's only a small group of dorks who ever hear about things like this. The 15 year old who wants to buy Madden 08 doesn't care and probably doesn't even know about EA's bad rep on the internet amongst hardcore gamers (another minority). Most people who walk into a store and buy a new computer probably couldn't even tell you which OS they have on it, much less tell you anything about the Vista vs. XP controversy.

That was what I meant. Consumers are generally uneducated. They just want what they want.


ah, back in the day
By sprockkets on 4/18/2008 2:19:36 PM , Rating: 2
Some fees have gone down, such as the bold fee, but the big difference, since 2000, is the final value fee, from 5% to 8.25% for the first $25, then 2.5% to 3.5% for $25.01 to $1000, then 1.25% to 1.5% from $1000.01 up.

Oh well, whatta gonna do about it?

Oh yeah, charge little for the item then a lot for the shipping LOL.




RE: ah, back in the day
By mmntech on 4/18/2008 2:30:23 PM , Rating: 2
Lol on the shipping. I remember late last year seeing Wiis going for $250 with $100 shipping! eBay is still a good place to get hard to find stuff. I rarely buy from them though and I've never sold anything.

I think a lot of people complaining are the ones who sell on eBay as an under-the-table business, not the guys selling junk from his garage. The former sells the items and keeps 100% of the profit without declaring it as taxable income. It's just like these people who hold multiple "garage sales". I have no proof of that but I'm sure that's what goes on.


RE: ah, back in the day
By Alexstarfire on 4/19/2008 7:11:59 AM , Rating: 2
I've never personally agreed with the way the government wants to tax people. If I sell something of mine, like a personal item, why should the government get tax on it? They already got tax once when I bought it. I agree that if you make your living off of eBay that it should be taxed, since it's your income. Selling off old items shouldn't be taxed though.


RE: ah, back in the day
By Ratwar on 4/19/08, Rating: 0
RE: ah, back in the day
By walk2k on 4/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: ah, back in the day
By onwisconsin on 4/18/2008 11:54:19 PM , Rating: 2
Fraud? I think it's just "overcharging"


Done with feeBay anyway.
By jevans64 on 4/18/2008 8:08:05 PM , Rating: 2
I'm pretty-much done with feeBay anyway. More often than not, I can get the same items from an online source for the same or cheaper than feeBay, and I don't have to deal with the hassle of bidding and watching an auction. If I have something to sell, then I put it on Craigslist or Amazon or just sell it locally.




RE: Done with feeBay anyway.
By bigboxes on 4/18/2008 10:08:19 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, eBay is a memory for me. Too difficult to have accurate ratings (both buyer and seller). Not enough accountability from eBay. Tie in to PayPal is just not right. It's not in the buyer's best interest. I can't speak for sellers. I honestly wish there was real competition and I'm not talking Craigslist.


RE: Done with feeBay anyway.
By djc208 on 4/19/2008 7:08:48 AM , Rating: 2
That always amused me about some of the auctions I would watch or bid on. By the time it was over a lot of the items would have been bid up to just shy of the price you could find somewhere else. Why go through all the hassel and uncertainty when for $10 more you can buy it from some company brand new in box.

I use e-bay for two things, to find unusual stuff like parts for my antique car, and some of the stores for little generic stuff you can't get localy like cheap cell phone accessories.


Wait, I was supposed to Boycott Ebay?
By SilthDraeth on 4/18/2008 3:22:54 PM , Rating: 2
I must have forgot since I haven't used Ebay for almost a year or more. When was I supposed to boycott it?




By Fenixgoon on 4/18/2008 5:47:20 PM , Rating: 2
you didn't get the memo?

=D


competition
By jimpaka on 4/18/2008 2:23:58 PM , Rating: 2
My hope is that if these changes are turning away Ebay sellers in a drastic manner, then other auction sites will pop up and we'll have a more competitive web-auctioning environment. Raised prices for sellers will mean higher costs for both buyers and sellers. Competing auction sites would mean slimmer margins and thus benefit buyers and sellers. Ebay is a great resource, but for the most part it's the only choice because nothing else comes close in terms of number of listings.




Craig's list
By Sureshot324 on 4/20/2008 2:40:06 PM , Rating: 2
If craigs list allowed searching the entire listings, rather than just the ones in your city, I think it would start taking a LOT of market share away from ebay. If searching for something specific it can be very hard to find it searching one city at a time.




By wetwareinterface on 4/20/2008 6:21:32 PM , Rating: 2
the issue is that there are 2 types of people on ebay; scammers and honest people. the new rules do nothing for the honest seller and only help buyers. if a scam buyer buys from an honest seller and uses pay pal all they have to do now is state they didn't get their item and leave negative feedback and get their money back and keep the item. that's what is going to drive the honest sellers away and the only sellers left are the scammers. there are a ton of scam buyers and hijacked accounts used to buy items to keep them free of charge.

a friend of mine has lost around $4000 worth of items because pay pal always sides with the buyer no matter what documentation you can provide they pull your money and give it to the buyer. you can have delivery confirmation and even signed delivery confirmation to a confirmed address and pay pal will still pull the money and give it to the scammer if they state it wasn't the item they bid on. worst part is pay pal will refund the money before the scammer ships it back.

the same friend sold an expensive vintage analog music keyboard worth $1400 once. the buyer changed his address from europe to confirmed in USA at the last minute before bidding (my friend couldn't see this) then payed through pay pal. then after recieving item changed address back to france, filed complaint that he didn't receive item with pay pal and got all his money refunded. here's the best part, his ebay account had the item listed for sale at the time of refund and used the original same photos from my friends auction, and it made no difference to pay pal cause the new address was unconfirmed and they weren't about to issue a refund because then pay pal would be out $1400 and they don't do that only the seller is out the money.

these new policy changes are simply to screw honest sellers from ebay fees when they are bid on by scammer buyers. ebay simply wants to keep the fees no matter what the buyer is. the seller now has no way to retaliate against scammers, and the sellers are the ones paying ebay not the buyers. this will drive away honest sellers cause the scammers are gonna come out in force now that there's nothing a seller can do to leave negative feedback. all that's going to be left seller wise is scammers, with honest and scammer buyers bidding on fake crap. ebay is going down fast.




Ebay needs a dirt nap
By Clue69Less on 4/22/2008 3:15:05 PM , Rating: 2
My ebay feedback is over 4000 and I'm at 99.99% positive. Last month I had $1400 in non-paying bidders. With the loss of seller feedback upcoming, this problem is already on the rise. What's my recourse? I get to wait 10 days to file a non-pay notice, then wait 10 more to get a credit. Whoopie. That will show the deadbeats who is boss. As soon as a viable competitor rears its head, I'll jump ship immediately. Ebay has much positive about it but their ownership is arrogant and greedy. I will celebrate the day they go out of business.




"People Don't Respect Confidentiality in This Industry" -- Sony Computer Entertainment of America President and CEO Jack Tretton














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