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Blog: Software Dueling Banjos: Rock Band and Guitar Hero III
Marcus Yam (Blog) - July 19, 2007 5:51 AM
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Rock Band will rock the house, but will Guitar Hero still be heroic?

Rock Band was one of the darlings at this year’s E3 show. That’s not surprising, given the fact that nearly every attendee at the “business summit” would be wise that Rock Band is being developed by Harmonix – the original makers behind Guitar Hero.

There’s no question in my mind that Rock Band will be amazing fun, but what are its chances against Guitar Hero III? The general buying public (read: casual gamers) has already been trained to equate the Guitar Hero name as a brand that means fun.

I don’t want to doubt the talented folks at Neversoft for their helm on the third Guitar Hero, but it’s becoming clear that Rock Band appears to be far more ambitious. What Guitar Hero has going for it is the name and HUGE following behind it.

To be a Neversoft developer working on Guitar Hero III, it must feel a little intimidating to hear all the news about Rock Band. But I have high expectations for whatever Neversoft does, and I will be terribly letdown if Guitar Hero III isn’t anything short of a worthy sequel.

Admittedly, EA’s massive clout will probably help Rock Band score the bigger bands and more classic tracks. Rock Band has already scored some of tracks that I have been dreaming to play in the form of music tunnels – Paranoid by Black Sabbath, Don't Fear the Reaper by Blue Oyster Cult and especially anything from Metallica. Enter Sandman will be bundled with the game, which is a good start.

"Metallica is one of the best loved bands in the world and their albums redefined hard rock and metal. Its one of the bands we had to bring to the Rock Band experience," said Alex Rigopulos, co-founder and CEO of Harmonix. "Rock Band will allow gamers to jam with the guys through their long, successful career, from young, raw talent to mega stars, playing the hard-rocking sounds that the band is known for."

Perhaps even more exciting is the announcement that Harmonix will publish new downloadable content (more than likely for a fee) that will provide new material for the game every week. The first download is already set to be the full Who's Next album by The Who.

"Offering entire albums for play on the Rock Band platform is a monumental step forward in Harmonix's ever present quest to provide new ways for people to interact with music and creating the most authentic music experience possible," stated Rigopulos. "This will give players the opportunity to play through the entire album set list of arguably some of the most influential rock albums of all time and brings them one step closer to what it feels like to be a true rock star."

With news such as this, Rock Band looks unstoppable. On the bright side for Activision's licence, Rock Band is going to be on Xbox 360 and the PS3, so Guitar Hero III will not have to compete against Rock Band for those who only own a PS2 or a Wii.

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Enter Sandman......gimme a break.
By Vanilla Thunder on 7/19/2007 10:21:22 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Enter Sandman will be bundled with the game, which is a good start.


This song is the new Stairway to Heaven. Only not nearly as good. I sold guitars for 3 years, and every no talent hack that picked up a guitar would play this song. Which I suppose makes it perfectly suited for this game. If you're gonna put some Metallica on the game, gimme something pre And Justice For All. When Metallica still played metal, and weren't trying to wipe their aching MANginas with Napster. Sorry for the rant, I just really hate that song...lol.

Vanilla




RE: Enter Sandman......gimme a break.
By zombiexl on 7/19/2007 10:27:58 AM , Rating: 2
As a no talent hack I take offense to that..

I started with AC/DC and Hendrix. I started Metallica with kill em all, ride the lightning and MOP and Megadeth with RIP (arguably their most technical album).

I eventually learned Sandman and a bunch of other lame songs (every rose anyone?) to impress the girls.. girlies just loved that hackish crap back in the day..

On an odd side note Word 2007 (I've been using that to spellcheck when I remember) has Metallica in its dictionary...


RE: Enter Sandman......gimme a break.
By Vanilla Thunder on 7/19/2007 11:11:08 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
girlies just loved that hackish crap back in the day..


I'm gonna have to one up you on the "every rose". I've found the real panty moistener is none other than Patience
by GNR. Chics love that shit...lol. Yet another song to put in the bag I like to call "Songs that might get you laid (by a 40 yr. old lounge lizzard)".

Vanilla


RE: Enter Sandman......gimme a break.
By zombiexl on 7/19/2007 11:20:54 AM , Rating: 2
Better yet the easy as hell Silent Lucidity by Queensryche.

quote:
Yet another song to put in the bag I like to call "Songs that might get you laid (by a 40 yr. old lounge lizzard)".


Yeah for today's girls (although too young for me, well the ones under 18 anyway :) ) you'd need to play eminem or some such other non musical crap.


RE: Enter Sandman......gimme a break.
By SirLucius on 7/19/2007 11:30:54 AM , Rating: 5
No no, not Eminem. Fall Out Boy, My Chemical Romance, Maroon 5... any of the really crappy, generic emo bands will suffice. The more you sound like a 12 year old boy who's about to cry, the better.


By Vanilla Thunder on 7/19/2007 11:38:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The more you sound like a 12 year old boy who's about to cry, the better.


Never were truer words spoken.....

Vanilla


RE: Enter Sandman......gimme a break.
By SirLucius on 7/19/2007 10:53:01 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah I'm very dissapointed with the Metallica choice. I was hoping for either "Hit the Lights," "The Four Horsemen," or as cheezy as it sounds, "Master of Puppets." Oh well, at least I got Megadeth's "Hangar 18" out of GHII. Ideally, they'd release a metal pack with bands like Children of Bodom and Chimaira, although that'll never happen. But hey, I can dream.


RE: Enter Sandman......gimme a break.
By zombiexl on 7/19/2007 11:22:27 AM , Rating: 2
Creaping Death would be my first choice.


RE: Enter Sandman......gimme a break.
By Vanilla Thunder on 7/19/2007 11:51:07 AM , Rating: 2
Angel of Death by Slayer would be mine.

Vanilla


RE: Enter Sandman......gimme a break.
By zombiexl on 7/20/2007 7:49:17 AM , Rating: 2
I was talking strictly Metallica, but I would be happy with your pick.

doubt they'd add any slayer albums, but you never know.


By rklaver on 7/20/2007 2:19:03 PM , Rating: 2
Creeping Death, Angel of Death...

Great choices. I may have to go dig my tapes out of the attic. I haven't heard those songs in years.


RE: Enter Sandman......gimme a break.
By InsaneGain on 7/19/2007 1:00:50 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, Enter Sandman isn't the hardest song to play on the guitar - it was one of the first songs I learned to play. However I find it interesting how self proclaimed guitar elitists equate tempo and difficulty, or exclusivity with the worthiness of a song. It's unfortunate that some people automatically judge very successful songs as cliche or too commercialized and mainstream, and then try to impose those beliefs on others. Enter Sandman and Stairway to heaven are songs loved by millions of people, that is one of the reasons people like hear them and play them on guitars. How many songs have you written that helped sell 15 million albums? A lot of hard core metal fans said Metallica sold out with the their album Metallica (the Black Album), but they simply replied "yeah we sold out every concert on the tour". I prefer the sound in Master of Puppets and "and Justice for All", but I also appreciate the different, more melodic sound of the Black Album. I think it showed the versatility and depth of talent in the song writing skills of Hetfield and the rest of the band.
I remember one time I was with some people playing acoustic guitars and some girls there wanted this guy to play Stairway to Heaven. He wouldn't though because he said it was too overplayed. How stupid was that. It wasn't even because he personally didn't like the song. It was because that is the generally accepted opinion of the guitar playing crowd. I also knew a guy who loved Green Day before they hit it big, but wouldn't listen to them once they were accepted as mainstream. If people like a song then people should not be afraid to play it, even if it is fairly easy to play and a huge commercial hit.


RE: Enter Sandman......gimme a break.
By SirLucius on 7/19/2007 2:03:01 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think most metal fans have as much of a problem with the Black album as they do with the crap Metallica released after that. Aside from shoddy songwriting, the production quality on many of the albums was horrible (the drums on St. Anger sounded like a paint bucket filled with dog sh*t.) I understand why Harmonix picked "Enter Sandman" - it's a nice mix of commercial Metallica and old school Metallica, thus it has the most marketability - I just would have preferred older Metallica.

Tempo and difficulty are what most genres of metal are about. Metal music is fast, aggressive and technical. Most slow metal songs have chuggy rhythms and make use of fast solos and quick riffs placed throughout the song. So of course, as metal fans, part of what we judge music on is the tempo of the song and difficulty. That's not to say that if it isn't hard and fast it sucks. I love plenty of music outside of metal, and a lot of it is stupidly simple.

And you do realize comparing any modern metal guitarist or band to Metallica is just silly right? They are one of the bands that helped to define metal for the fans and mainstream audiences alike. I think you need to ask how many metal bands have sold 15 million albums total, not if any of us have done so personally. Outside of the bands made big in the late 80's and 90's (Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Anthrax, hair metal, etc) there haven't been too many. Slipknot and KoRn are two that come to mind that may have, although KoRn's credibility is rather shoddy.

There are plenty of bands that I liked before they hit it big, but most ended up changning their music too much. While a lot of people say a band sold out just to be music snobs, I'd bet most don't like the musical changes most bands make in order to succeed. Metallica is a prime example of this. They changed their sound to appeal to a larger audience, thus alienating their original fans.


By zombiexl on 7/20/2007 7:55:34 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
I don't think most metal fans have as much of a problem with the Black album as they do with the crap Metallica released after that.


No doubt. I went to a midnight sale for Load (of shit) and it got played maybe 1/2 way through before it went on the shelf never to be played again.


By Vanilla Thunder on 7/19/2007 5:59:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's unfortunate that some people automatically judge very successful songs as cliche or too commercialized and mainstream


The sad truth is, usually it's true. The masses love crap. They love recycled 4 chord progressions and a good hook. Don't take this as my being an elitist. I am far from it, but in my opinion originallity and creativity are as important as any ingredient in the recipe. There are songs that make my head bob, and I'll listen to them on a cruise or at a party. But music that touches your soul, and makes you feel something is a whole different creature. This is why I play music. For that feeling. What this all boils down to is, I really don't care if you like what I like or vice versa. I don't expect you to agree, or acknowledge my being right or wrong. Opinions are like music, it's all expression. To each their own. Good night.

Vanilla


By zombiexl on 7/20/2007 7:57:23 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not any sort of elite musician and I appreciate the technical aspects of music, even music i dont like.

I also like alot of non-technical music, becuase it sounds good to me. You mentioned green day, i remember spend an hour or so figuring out the songs on Dookie.


By Murst on 7/19/2007 5:23:08 PM , Rating: 2
Having Enter Sandman is better than not having it.

Sure, there's lots of other great songs by Metallica that would be great to include (MoP would be great - although it is probably too long, especailly w/ people taking turns).

Hopefully they'll allow downloads of other Metallica songs... but if I was in marketing, I'd definetally choose Enter Sandman over any other Metallica song just because it is quite possibly the most popular song they've released (dunno, maybe Nothing Else Matters would be close... but its not that great for the game).


Ehh
By ioKain on 7/19/2007 5:03:19 PM , Rating: 3
I'm I the only one who thinks these "rock" games are the gheyest thing to hit video games since DDR?

Honestly, I just want to know.




RE: Ehh
By ioKain on 7/19/2007 5:05:38 PM , Rating: 2
Lol at my first two words on my last post, edit button please.

Supposed to read "Am I".


RE: Ehh
By killerroach on 7/19/2007 8:25:59 PM , Rating: 1
As a heterosexual male player of dance games, I'm quite offended by your comment. So music games might not be your cup of tea for whatever reason (self-consciousness, lack of interest, music not to your taste, poor sense of rhythm, whatever), but they do have a very strong fan base. There are large numbers of people who either just enjoy music in all its forms, have musical training, or, in the case of dance games, enjoy the exercise, so these sorts of games are right up their alley.

With the instrument sims lately, it also adds another dimension, and that is the escapism by vicariously being able to live the "rock star" experience without the pitfalls of the drugs, conniving managers, thieving record executives, or scuzzy-looking groupies. Consider that.


RE: Ehh
By ioKain on 7/20/2007 2:07:21 AM , Rating: 2
Self-consciousness, no. Lack of interest, hell yes. Music not your taste, couldn't tell ya. Poor sense of rhythm, I play the bass and I'm good at it so.....no. I've learned to play five instruments throughout my life and I have no desire whatsoever to play this game.

quote:
experience without the pitfalls of the drugs, conniving managers, thieving record executives, or scuzzy-looking groupies. Consider that.
That plus kick ass guitar riffs and headbangin is what muther f'n rock n roll is all about. Maybe you should go back to your pop collection.

Exercise? You gotta be kidding.


RE: Ehh
By ioKain on 7/20/2007 2:09:59 AM , Rating: 2
Lol, just had a thought. This game is like some sort of trainer for some milli vanili faggotry.


RE: Ehh
By InsaneGain on 7/20/2007 1:27:26 PM , Rating: 2
What exactly is "ghey" about a guitar video game? Pretending to be something you aren't? Then I guess pretty much every video game is "ghey". It's no "gheyer" than a game where you are pretending that you are a black ops agent hunting terrorists and pretending your mouse button is a gun trigger. No, you are not the only one to criticize people who play Guitar Hero. A few times I have read comments from people who have inflated egos because they can play power chords on a real instrument, and they put down others who like to play Guitar Hero, usually saying something like "why don't you play a real guitar like a real man?!". I play my real electric guitar all the time, but what I like about Guitar Hero is that I can have fun with my friends who can't play the guitar. Last weekend I was playing Guitar Hero with a friend of mine, and he started thinking he would like to learn how to play a real guitar. I read that a few real rock bands play Guitar Hero in their tour buses between concerts.


RE: Ehh
By SirLucius on 7/20/2007 4:28:05 PM , Rating: 2
I don't understand people who criticize games like DDR and Guitar Hero. I know that the members of Trivium are a big fan of Guitar Hero. And I haven't met a single guitarist yet who doesn't like Guitar Hero, and I lived on a floor with roughly 40 music business/performance majors this past year at college. It's a fun game that, like InsaneGain said, musicians and non-musicians can enjoy.


RE: Ehh
By ioKain on 7/20/2007 7:32:24 PM , Rating: 2
I guess it could be fun for people who aren't very good at other video games. If you have any sort of rhythm whatsoever you could master the game in no time. I don't know, I just don't see the appeal. I left the playskool toys behind after I turned six.


I hope DLC pricing is not completely insane
By zombiexl on 7/19/2007 7:03:50 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Perhaps even more exciting is the announcement that Harmonix will publish new downloadable content (more than likely for a fee) that will provide new material for the game every week. The first download is already set to be the full Who's Next album by The Who.


I’ll hold my excitement until I see the DLC pricing. If it’s anywhere near as ridiculous as the pricing for GH2 DLC then they can keep it. I’m worried considering the pricing of the game without any accessories.




RE: I hope DLC pricing is not completely insane
By Marcus Yam on 7/19/2007 7:48:18 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I'm sort of the same boat too. I don't have GH2 for the 360, so getting into any music game on a next gen console will be a pricey thing for me.

The fact that GH3 will be on PS2, with my already existing guitars makes it an automatic purchase... but I'll probably have to wait for a deal on the Rock Band setup. :(

As far as DLC goes... how would you feel about 1000 MSP or $12.50 on the PSN?

I could deal with pricing if it matched the actual CD in stores.


By zombiexl on 7/19/2007 8:49:19 AM , Rating: 2
I have GH2 + 2 guitars for the 360.
I want the drums and mic and a wireless guitar so I'm going with the bundle if i grab it. If one of my friends wants to play bass or rhythm (not sure if it will be like GH2 where it varies) then they will just have to be wired with a GH2 guitar.


By zombiexl on 7/19/2007 8:53:22 AM , Rating: 2
Oh to answer your question..

quote:
As far as DLC goes... how would you feel about 1000 MSP or $12.50 on the PSN?


I'm not sure how i feel. I can't think of too many albums where i like the entire thing. Although, if it's the original artist I may be more inclined to pay that price than if it was a cover band.

The singer on Mother for GH2 had some problems trying to sound like Glen Danzig, especially on the chorus.


RE: I hope DLC pricing is not completely insane
By A5 on 7/19/2007 9:32:22 AM , Rating: 2
I'm getting GH3 and Rock Band, but I'm not going to re-buy my guitars. I'll make my free-loading roommates buy the other stuff for Rock Band ;)

As far as DLC, I would pay 1000 points for a whole album...problem is that for GH2, they want 800 for 3 songs, so I'm not hopeful.


By zombiexl on 7/19/2007 9:56:02 AM , Rating: 2
Notice they only released those 3 packs. There was such an outcry against the pricing they would be retarded to try that gouging again.

The max price per song should be no more than what an mp3 is sold for.. 99cents? The issue is that they are releasing entire albums, unless that menas better per song pricing I'm not sure i like it.

Also they are only including like 15 songs with the $60 game. Thats also something to be concerned about. You will most definately need ot buy DLC to have any fun with the game.

For $199 you get 15 songs, GH2 on roids, a wireless (kick ass looking, compared to the Xplorer) guitar, drums (wired or wireless?) and a mic (wired or wireless?).


Rock Band Skepticism
By SirLucius on 7/19/2007 10:46:37 AM , Rating: 2
While I am very interested in and looking forward to Rock band, I am a bit dissapointed with the tracklist. While I like some of the bands they currently have, none of them seem like they would be overly difficult, even on harder difficulties. I really hope that Rock Band has more bonus tracks when it ships as well. Part of what I love about the Guitar Hero series is the massive amount of songs that each game has shipped with. It's great when I'm playing with friends because of the variety of music. I can played Lamb of God and Megadeth with my metal friends and then play Wolfmother with my other friends. Everyone ends up happy.

One other thing that concerns me is the lack of two pedals for the drum kit. This leads me to believe that even in future download packs, they won't have any modern metal bands like Guitar Hero did (think Lamb of God and Shadowsfall). I guess they could sell an add-on pedal at a later time, but that seems like so much hassle.

I do really like the idea of having the extra five buttons higher on the neck for solos. That's something I've always wished for in Guitar Hero, and I'm glad Rock Band decided to implement it.

At this point I know I'll end up getting Guitar Hero III first, but I'm very interested in Rock Band.




RE: Rock Band Skepticism
By MDE on 7/20/2007 2:25:01 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sure they've figured out a way around not having two pedals, especially considering they finally got Metallica into the game.

I'm also going to guy GH3 before Rock Band, but that's only because GH3 will be there to tide me over for a month until Rock Band is released.


RE: Rock Band Skepticism
By MDE on 7/20/2007 2:26:57 PM , Rating: 2
also going to buy (not guy, hopefully that was just a mistyped key and not a subliminal thought escaping)


To all you no-talent hacks
By JonnyDough on 7/19/2007 4:33:55 PM , Rating: 1
While I have an appreciation for the musical instrumentation and the talent it takes to successfully and make a cool sound...I still have to say who really gives a crap? It's just music man. Yes, I said JUST music. Just like it's just art, it's just religion, and it's just life. It's only relative to the people and place. It all fades in time so if it's important to you, great...but there's no use in bickering kiddies. Get over yourselves and your opinions and just enjoy the "just music." It's like going to war over ideas. Who really cares who's right? If the people live a life and achieve some good things during their time here without ruining it for all the other people and creatures then yay to them. I think if there's one thing that people need to learn to do, it is to appreciate what it is to be alive. Revel in the journey because after it's gone, it's gone and nothing you do ultimately matters. But being a prick isn't the way to live and doesn't make it cool for anyone.




By Vanilla Thunder on 7/20/2007 10:00:49 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Get over yourselves and your opinions


Practice what you preach buddy.

Vanilla


Songs
By ancient46 on 7/21/2007 9:51:42 AM , Rating: 2
I am more interested in "Paranoid" and "Reaper" than "Sandman". However guessing from this thread most people aren't. For me those inclusions are more of a draw. Now if the downloads would include BOC's "Godzilla" I would buy it for sure.




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