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This could put a damper on the Gigafactory location for Arizona

It doesn't look like Arizona will be at the top of Tesla Motors' list for Gigafactory battery plant locations after a recent pro-Tesla bill took a dive. 

According to Automotive News, a bill that would have allowed Tesla to sell its electric vehicles in Arizona showrooms looks to be over and done with in the state's senate. Arizona Senate Majority Leader John McComish said the bill won’t make it to the floor for a vote this session, which ends in a week.

Unfortunately for Tesla, it will be another year (at the very soonest) before new legislation could be brought forward. 

"Eventually, as a result of the dealer led attacks, the bill ran out of time in a legislative session that was dominated by budget wrangling and subsequently cut short," said Tesla. "Tesla is grateful for the organic support we encountered within the Arizona legislature and the broad outpouring of support we received from the citizens of Arizona. We look forward to re-engaging next year." 

Bobbi Sparrow, president of the Arizona Automobile Dealers Association, said Tesla's statement isn't true, and added that the bill to allow Tesla's desired business model “is a decades old, failed idea to establish a vertical monopoly that is remarkably both anti-business and anti-consumer."


Elon Musk [SOURCE: NY Mag]

"There is an easy solution for Tesla, which it should be pointed out is selling cars in Arizona, unlike the situation in other states ... They can play by the rules that are serving Arizona well with 28,000 jobs and nearly 25 percent of the state sales tax revenue," said Sparrow.

Tesla has been trying to implement a direct sales model for its EVs, which would eliminate auto dealers altogether. Obviously auto dealers are against this, as it could lead to other automakers doing the same thing and putting them out of a job. 

Tesla has had mixed luck in this area. It lost out in New Jersey after Gov. Chris Christie’s administration banned direct auto sales in March, but managed to come to an agreement in Ohio that allowed Tesla to sell in its two existing showrooms as well as a new third (but no other automakers are allowed to do so in the state). 

But Tesla also recently introduced its plan for a Gigafactory plant, which would create its EV batteries. Tesla wants the factory to be placed in a Southwest state where there's plenty of sun for the solar-powered location. The potential locations ended up being Arizona, Texas, New Mexico and Nevada. 

It's worth noting that Arizona and Texas are the two that currently ban direct auto sales. It almost seemed as if Tesla was using the factory as leverage, since the chosen state would see 6,500 jobs created as a result. Tesla also said it will invest around $2 billion in the plant through 2020 while investors will pay another $2-3 billion for a total $4-5 billion investment.
 
While it may seem that Tesla would likely bypass Arizona after this latest event, Sparrow believes otherwise. 

“I think Tesla will put their battery factory right where they wanted it from the beginning,” said Sparrow. “It had nothing to do with what was passed in any state.”

“If it’s collectively believed that the smartest place to put a battery factory is in Arizona, then they’ll do so."

Source: Automotive News



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What?
By BRB29 on 4/16/2014 7:27:07 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Bobbi Sparrow, president of the Arizona Automobile Dealers Association, said Tesla's statement isn't true, and added that the bill to allow Tesla's desired business model “is a decades old, failed idea to establish a vertical monopoly that is remarkably both anti-business and anti-consumer.


So this guy wants to block a business from selling its product then call them anti-business. He wants to promote a middle man business that jack up the price but offer no added value, then call Tesla anti-consumer.

I want what he's smoking.




RE: What?
By Reclaimer77 on 4/16/2014 7:36:59 AM , Rating: 3
Vertical monopoly...

What the flux??


RE: What?
By Dr of crap on 4/16/2014 8:23:23 AM , Rating: 2
Yea, kind of sounds like political or even union like!
Anti-business - what?

To bad he can "give" money to the legislator and BUY votes. But that our great govt! By the people, NOPE. Its by the highest bidder!


RE: What?
By retrospooty on 4/16/14, Rating: 0
RE: What?
By Spuke on 4/16/2014 12:01:40 PM , Rating: 1
Move to CA, then you'll understand the true meaning of backwards. At least your state doesn't look like a 3rd world country (unless you live in Orange county).


RE: What?
By Spuke on 4/16/2014 4:09:58 PM , Rating: 2
I guess hacked up roads is 1st world?


RE: What?
By retrospooty on 4/16/2014 4:38:53 PM , Rating: 2
I was born and raised in CA (East bay and Silicon Valley). I left almost a decade ago. It got bad and I just didnt want to be there any more.


RE: What?
By Reclaimer77 on 4/16/2014 4:45:19 PM , Rating: 3
Yet you called those trying to prevent Arizona from becoming another California backwoods retards.


RE: What?
By retrospooty on 4/16/2014 4:53:05 PM , Rating: 2
"Yet you called those trying to prevent Arizona from becoming another California backwoods retards."

Are we talking about the AZ state senate? If your impression of the AZ state senate is a group of elected leaders "trying to prevent Arizona from becoming another California" you are way off. That has nothing to do with anything and is nowhere on the minds of these nutjobs.


RE: What?
By Spuke on 4/16/2014 6:13:50 PM , Rating: 3
I got in-laws in AZ and I hear their complaints quite a bit. Sorry but your elected leaders PALE in comparison to the sociopaths we have in office. At least Phoenix doesn't look like a refugee camp.


RE: What?
By retrospooty on 4/16/2014 6:37:01 PM , Rating: 2
You do have that, and more... But we have Kathy Herrod. Until you have someone as ignorant as Kathy Herrod pulling strings at the capital, you cant claim to be the worst. Absolute insanity.


RE: What?
By Reclaimer77 on 4/16/2014 6:41:51 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know who Kathy Herrod is, but this sounds like the typical way the media portrays Conservatives as being "crazy" or somehow mentally unhinged.

Meh...


RE: What?
By retrospooty on 4/16/2014 7:01:25 PM , Rating: 1
No dude. It's not a media thing (note, you haven't even heard of her). She really is bat shit crazy, the worst of the worst type of politician and somehow holds a ton of sway at the state cap. She, and a few others like her are responsible for AZ being the new Florida.


RE: What?
By Reclaimer77 on 4/16/2014 7:33:28 PM , Rating: 3
Can you just tell me WHY she's crazy?

And what does "the new Florida" mean exactly? Arizona seems like a pretty awesome place to live.


RE: What?
By retrospooty on 4/16/2014 7:57:57 PM , Rating: 2
Becoming the laughing stock of the country with all this SB 1070 and now SB 1062 ridiculously shortsighted things that the state senate works on while we are broke. As for Herrod, there are a lot of just silly little things she spends time and money on as well, HOA things, bully legislation, and other petty odd things that make zero sense at the state level while we are broke as hell. She has been pushing her weird social conservative BS agenda for decades. She is a slippery string puller, as bad as Pelosi and Reed combined.

These arent entirely negative articles about her, more just showing her web of influence.

Of course, freegin DT, I cant post the links with my text.


RE: What?
By retrospooty on 4/16/2014 8:11:00 PM , Rating: 2
Check the phoenix times artivle above.

"It apparently doesn't matter that some of the Center for Arizona Policy's bills make Arizona look like the land of morons, like Arizona's law banning human-animal hybrids, "

There are many examples of bills like that. We are broke, in financial crisis and there she is pushing legislation to ban human/animal hybrids in the state... BTW, no-one in the state, either state or private funded is working on human animal hybrids. she just feels we need it banned. Bat crap crazy man.


RE: What?
By Reclaimer77 on 4/16/2014 8:49:00 PM , Rating: 1
Okay that is a little crazy sounding lol.

Ah well, at least they're trying to keep the fags and beaners out.


RE: What?
By retrospooty on 4/17/2014 12:31:22 AM , Rating: 2
lol. I'm going to take that as you are joking and just lol.


RE: What?
By Reclaimer77 on 4/17/2014 8:26:58 AM , Rating: 2
You know maybe she's not so crazy. It's only a matter of time before the Japanese clone some anime-based half woman half tiger female sex slave. When that happens, Arizona will look like the most progressive state out there! :P


RE: What?
By retrospooty on 4/17/2014 10:51:05 AM , Rating: 2
Hey, I dont want to run in to Mansquito any more than you do, I am against it... I just think AZ doesn't need that law since no-one in AZ is working on it. What the Japanese do isnt in her jurisdiction anyhow. ;)


RE: What?
By GotThumbs on 4/17/2014 4:28:56 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe you should move OUT of California?

I've got a feeling its not going to get any better, just worse.

Get out now before its too late.

Just a suggestion.

~Best wishes


Tesla battery factory
By Richard875yh5 on 4/16/14, Rating: 0
RE: Tesla battery factory
By retrospooty on 4/16/14, Rating: 0
RE: Tesla battery factory
By atechfan on 4/16/14, Rating: -1
RE: Tesla battery factory
By NellyFromMA on 4/16/2014 10:00:40 AM , Rating: 1
Idk, people have avoided GM like wildfire because of their poor quality for easily a decade, except for those who insist "buying domestic". And they still went bankrupt.

It took a gov bailout and takeover for the company to make any level of resurgence. Hard to blame other companies for this.

GM isn't bad today (after tax paying American citizens bailed them out), but it isn't a great choice when you look at cost value.


RE: Tesla battery factory
By atechfan on 4/16/2014 2:20:56 PM , Rating: 2
Toyota was bailed out by their government too. Besides, it isn't the 90s any more. GMs famously poor quality is behind them.

GM never went bankrupt because no one was buying them. Even at their lowest, they were the number 2 seller worldwide. For most of their history they were number one. They just could not compete on labour costs with companies who were already partly subsidized by their government, or didn't have the same union pressures, or, perhaps most expensive, a huge and ever growing healthcare cost for both current employees and retirees, on top of generous pensions for said retirees.


RE: Tesla battery factory
By retrospooty on 4/16/2014 4:02:59 PM , Rating: 2
"it isn't the 90s any more. GMs famously poor quality is behind them"

Bah, they have been saying "this time for sure, the quality is good now" for well over 30 years. I will believe it when 5 year old GM's hold their value like 5 year old competitors. Initial quality "day one" inspection and immediate failures has improved, but 5 years later its still a POS with high fail rates.


RE: Tesla battery factory
By atechfan on 4/18/2014 9:03:03 PM , Rating: 2
Depends on the vehicle. GM still makes pretty bad compact cars, but their large cars, and their trucks have always been solid, even in the bad years. You are hard pressed to kill the GM small block 8. The Cavalier was junk, the Cobalt better, but still not great. It is like they weren't even trying with their small cars, but only making them to fulfill CAFE mandates.

The trucks and Cadillacs and Corvettes hold their resale value just fine. The smaller and cheaper cars cars, not so much.


RE: Tesla battery factory
By retrospooty on 4/16/2014 10:50:47 AM , Rating: 1
You cant compare GM to Toyota. Hardly worse? Not even in the same ballpark. Toyota quality is far beyond what GM is. It's not just hte public recalls, I am talking about how long things last without being a regular visit to the repair shop. GM's fall apart in far higher #'s. The insanely bad resale values are the result.


RE: Tesla battery factory
By Spuke on 4/16/2014 12:06:51 PM , Rating: 2
GM is much better now but resale value takes a LONG time to fix so you won't see that reflected for quite a while. I bought my first GM product in 2007 (still own it) and it's the most reliable car I've ever owned. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one but I'm looking to get into a more uncompromised sports car so they're not on the list.


RE: Tesla battery factory
By atechfan on 4/16/2014 2:23:19 PM , Rating: 2
Toyota is under investigation for unreported safety issues. They have had a ton of recalls lately, but not until they are forced to. Nevermind the slave-like labour conditions they impose on migrant workers from other Asian regions coming to Japan.


RE: Tesla battery factory
By retrospooty on 4/16/2014 4:00:19 PM , Rating: 2
"Toyota is under investigation for unreported safety issues. They have had a ton of recalls lately, but not until they are forced to. "

You are absolutely correct. And still GM is far FAR worse.


RE: Tesla battery factory
By Reclaimer77 on 4/16/2014 4:17:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'd rather have a GM than anything by Toyota. GM is hardly the worst offender when it comes to quality.


Wow and you say I have issues...


RE: Tesla battery factory
By atechfan on 4/18/2014 9:06:11 PM , Rating: 2
Toyotas are not the quality cars that you have been lead to believe. They used to be great, but as the dozens of safety related recalls lately show, that is not even close to the case any more.

Try using a Toyota truck for real work and see you see why nearly all work trucks are Fords or GMs.


RE: Tesla battery factory
By Reclaimer77 on 4/20/2014 8:56:30 AM , Rating: 2
You say this in the middle of a GM controversy crisis, where they knew about faulty ignition switches for almost a decade and did NOTHING.

Toyota's biggest problem lately has been people too stupid to keep floor-mats out of the gas pedal. Uhhh that's kind of a mismatch.

quote:
Try using a Toyota truck for real work and see you see why nearly all work trucks are Fords or GMs.


Because they're cheaper. I'm sure a Tundra can do "real work" just fine.


RE: Tesla battery factory
By vitp on 4/16/2014 11:44:21 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Elon Musk is just a dreamer


And we need more dreamers like him. That's how humanity makes progress.


RE: Tesla battery factory
By KCjoker on 4/16/2014 6:19:46 PM , Rating: 2
Wrong, we need people that get RESULTS....good results. Dreamers have to be able to put their dream to reality.


RE: Tesla battery factory
By Mint on 4/16/2014 11:52:36 AM , Rating: 2
GM's battery was dependent on Envia, which looks more and more like a scam:
http://qz.com/158373/envia-the-mysterious-story-of...

None of the other automakers are getting costs down and density up like Tesla is, because they really don't care if EVs succeed or not. Until EVs make it really big, i.e. 3% of the global market (2 million per year), they'd much rather just buy a battery from someone else, like they buy so many other parts from third parties. So that's one backup plan for Tesla: sell packs to others.

The other backup plan for the gigafactory is a synergy with Solar City. Right now solar power is incentivized by "net metering", where the meter runs backwards when a solar array is producing power that isn't used. The problem is that the grid operators would much rather have you pay $0.10-0.30/kWh for your usage (evening, night) and buy wholesale power for $0.04/kWh, rather than lose revenue by using your solar power and net metering.

As solar gets built, utilities lose revenue (usually highest tier revenue), but can't shut down capacity (peak load is usually in the evening, when solar output is minimal). There's a war against net metering from both utilities and the general public when prices go up, and it will go away. So then all these people who installed solar panels are going to have sunk investments that are no longer erasing their electricity bill. Enter Solar City and Tesla, selling you a battery to handle your evening/night usage.

Batteries aren't economical for centralized power generation, and rarely for residential solar, either. But with the way the market is set up (dividing all grid costs per kWh), solar+batteries will happen because they reduce individual cost, despite increasing total system cost.


Interesting
By NellyFromMA on 4/16/2014 9:55:53 AM , Rating: 2
I think they should just sell Tesla off then. If they are going to face massive lobbying and campaign donation dollars fighting them to sell direct to customers, I think it'd be a great idea to threaten closing up shop and screaming corruption / anti-compete all the way.

Maybe it doesn't have to be that extreme (although, maybe it would); maybe they should just take the fight to the streets. Start a huge PR campaign and ask who matters, CONSUMERS.

Ask consumers how they feel about buying cars from the stealership. Then, ask them how they'd feel about buying it direct from the manufacturer and cutting the middle man they detest right out of the equation. Then, tell them that will never happen because their elected officials get paid too much from dealership and car manufacturers to allow it. I bet that'd get a big reaction...

They won't even need to really cherry-pick who they ask. NOONE likes the stealership except for the people that work there and rip you off. I have personally TRIED HARD to bring my new car to the stealership for service, but they want 115 / hr and massively bloat the labor. Nevermind the awful hassle of "bargaining" with these fools.

America should see exactly why innovation is stifled in America. Corporations don't want to innovate, they want to profit and R&D costs money. When the rare company actually decides to innovate, you can thank your elected officials for stifling them in the name of corruption.

Say something. Do something.




RE: Interesting
By Rukkian on 4/16/2014 1:24:01 PM , Rating: 2
While I understand your sentiment, the problem is that most of the country are sheep, and would vote to go with stealerships simply because that is the way we have always done it.

If you got the right group (probably mainly younger people) they might be open to it, but many people would rather keep the status quo on pretty much anything before making changes, even if they are being screwed.


RE: Interesting
By Spuke on 4/16/2014 1:58:20 PM , Rating: 2
I think it's more like people don't care. And younger people? Have you checked their voting numbers? They care the least.


RE: Interesting
By Rukkian on 4/16/2014 3:22:43 PM , Rating: 2
I am not saying they (we?) vote in high numbers, just saying that is the group that is more likely to embrace change. Maybe it is just my area of the country (Iowa) but the motto here seems to be "We have always done it that way". While I see some young people annoyed by that, it seems to be the going wisdom. Don't make any changes, cause change is bad.

I don't see anything coming of this, was just commenting on the observation that if put to a vote a large majority would say they hate dealerships, and would support a change. I challenge that, and feel that only more informed people would even think about that, or agree with it.


RE: Interesting
By Spuke on 4/16/2014 6:11:02 PM , Rating: 2
No argument from me on this. Well said.


"Young lady, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!" -- Homer Simpson














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