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Apple continues to look attractive from an investor standpoint as the iPad release approaches

Apple's computer lineup, with the exception of the new i7 iMacs, is rather dated.  The problem is particularly severe in the MacBook Pro series, whose hardware currently trails even drastically cheaper models from competitors like ASUSTek.  Apple also has the difficulty of contending with an increasingly popular Windows 7 (while Apple supports Windows 7 via Boot Camp, claiming OS X to be the "better" operating system has been a time-honored Apple advertising technique).

Despite these hurdles, Apple is posting surprisingly good sales according to Piper Jaffray's Gene Munster.  He and his fellow analysts are predicting the quarter that ends in March to be an epic success for Apple.

He personally predicts Mac sales to rise over 35 percent on a year to year basis.  In January and February, his numbers indicated sales to be up 39 percent.  These numbers are significantly higher than the still-optimistic average prediction of a 22 percent rise.  In total Munster expects 2.8 or 2.9 million Macs to sell over the quarter.

Even better for Apple, iPod sales are predicted to finally be up as well.  The iPod lineup was refreshed in the fall with the entire lineup receiving major changes, with the exception of the iPod classic, which had a minor capacity bump.  Munster predicts iPod sales to rise 7 percent, to reach 9 or 10 million units.

The optimism is diminished slightly by the fact that the gains were made easier by Apple's recessionary sales losses.  Last January through May, Apple's Mac sales dipped, and only recovered towards the end of the year with a very strong holiday season.  IPod sales fared even worse last year, posting an entire year of decreases, a trend that only appears to have reversed since January.

Looking ahead, there's much to be optimistic about for a recovering Apple; the iPad launches in April, an iPhone update is coming over the summer, and a MacBook/MacBook Pro refresh should be coming soon as well.

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Amazing...
By Abrahmm on 3/16/2010 9:56:21 AM , Rating: 5
It is simply amazing that Apple can convince some of the ignorant masses to pay so much more money for such inadequate and dated equipment.

It's also amazing that a company with 5% market share in the computer world gets as much press coverage(if not more) than the company with 90% market share.




RE: Amazing...
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 10:06:36 AM , Rating: 5
MS are no longer 'cool' and in all honesty, we're missing the point: "Microsoft does not make hardware" so misses out 'a lot' on the 'shiny award that apple gets.

I just hope that 'rational' people realise that there's nothing 'that' special about a mac and that it doesn't 'just work'.


RE: Amazing...
By SavagePotato on 3/16/2010 10:22:48 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft should consider a hardware line in my opinion.


RE: Amazing...
By Luticus on 3/16/2010 10:27:32 AM , Rating: 5
I don't think they should because it may open the door for 3rd parties (Dell, etc.) to complain that they can't compete with Microsoft's hardware offerings because MS makes the software also and so Microsoft would again have their hands legally tied and not be able to exploit such a move to it's fullest. Think EU-IE browser issue!

But, I guess I could be wrong.


RE: Amazing...
By SavagePotato on 3/16/2010 11:52:17 AM , Rating: 5
You are no doubt right, Microsoft would most likely be sued six ways from Sunday for daring to do anything of the sort. Apple does something they get called visionary, Microsoft does and they get sued.

The only reason I suggest it is because it would allow them to make a product that didn't come loaded with crapware like the OEM's like to do.

However that again would probably anger the OEM's because they make a lot of money installing trials of Norton and all that garbage like third party network managers and other so called utilities.

On an unrelated note. Why do people even reply to reader1? He is the most absurd troll the internet has ever seen. Nothing he says is ever close to coherent much less reality. Just give him his -1 and move on.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Amazing...
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 2:04:47 PM , Rating: 1
We pretty much all know that Microsoft will play the game to ensure people get onboard with something. Providers like closed systems and once Winmob7 gets going, the back doors will open and we'll pretty much be able to do whatever we like with 'our' phones.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Amazing...
By Luticus on 3/16/2010 2:36:23 PM , Rating: 2
If it's a closed platform then I'm not touching it. but I'm betting it'll end up just as open as the current offering is.


RE: Amazing...
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 4:37:31 PM , Rating: 2
No, probably not, as MS doesn't pretend to be perfect. Remember, the apple adverts show a smug, cool, person that belittles the pc owner.

For that very reason, apple gets more stick


RE: Amazing...
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 4:40:57 PM , Rating: 3
P.s. My girlfriend has an iPhone here in the UK. Same sim as her last 4 phones, that ranged from the Omnia i900, Touch Pro etc etc.

The iPhone misses calls, drops calls, delivers texts late along with late voice messages. This behaviour didn't happen with the previous phones but let's overlook this as it offers an easy way for her to sync with her iTunes.

She also, now, accepts that although it's a nice phone, it's offered her nothing over the other phones like her Omnia. She wants my HD2, but that's more for now. :)


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Amazing...
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 5:48:16 PM , Rating: 2
My butt does not hurt from watching adds. Never has, never will.

You are right though! I try not to watch ANY adverts as they all suck end


RE: Amazing...
By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 8:19:30 PM , Rating: 2
I don't care about the ads. It's the fans that bother me. With the "It's so much better","It's the super bestestest", and so forth.

Like one fan that told me his like 15" Macbook did 1080p and could play games in bootcamp at that resolution. I proceeded to tell him he's a moron and then show him how much of a moron he is.


RE: Amazing...
By nikon133 on 3/16/2010 6:30:24 PM , Rating: 2
Same thing with my iPhone here in Auckland, NZ. Likewise my wife's, and a few others I know about.

It seems radio in iPhone is mediocre, or there is unsorted firmware problem... but one way or another, iPhones are much more prone to "No Service" than other brands I have owned.

Good device, bellow average phone.


RE: Amazing...
By themaster08 on 3/19/2010 4:11:46 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Does it mean you guys will bash WinMo7 phones just like you bash iPhone now?

http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=17908...


RE: Amazing...
By themaster08 on 3/19/2010 4:08:45 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Because personal attacks are the best form of denial. When you or any other wintroll starts to attack me or tony swash or reader1 or koolaidman - this means your fatty butts were hurt by Jobs again

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=17920...

Similar to you, I guess. Hypocrite.

Now let me tell you the real truth. It's not that we're "butt hurt", it's the fact that we think reader1's view is worthless on the grounds that he completely disregards everyone elses', so he gets the same treatment.

My response might not have been the best, but I wasn't going to waste my time and efforts fomulating a valid argument for it to be completely ignored.

Perhaps I shouldn't have replied at all, but I did, and that's that. But no it isn't, because you use it as ammunition for your argument to sound the least bit valid, but the only problem with that is people can see past that. You can't.

You're not even taking notice of this, see? That's what I mean.

quote:
It's so sad.

What's sad is that you actually think you're right. You're not.


RE: Amazing...
By reader1 on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Amazing...
By Luticus on 3/16/2010 10:54:07 AM , Rating: 5
if they were "right all along" they'd have had a dominate share from the start... or at the VERY least been closer to 50%, but they aren't are they? They are still hovering around that whole 10% area. and of the people who own a Mac, I'd be willing to BET most of them own a Windows PC as well.


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 1:37:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
if they were "right all along" they'd have had a dominate share from the start...

Why? Look what "dominate[sic] share" has done for Microsoft... they can't take a piss without worrying about lawsuits. As observed earlier, Apple can get away with things Microsoft can't, and it's probably entirely due to their relatively miniscule share of the market.

Who cares about dominating a market when you can make a ton of money as the little guy?


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Amazing...
By ClownPuncher on 3/16/2010 2:14:06 PM , Rating: 2
I guess it is because you can make more money as the big guy. They also employ more people, which is good for the economy.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 2:32:09 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
I guess it is because you can make more money as the big guy.

In theory, but Apple has more money than many companies much larger than itself. Being a big company also has more risks. Clearly Apple is NOT trying to garner a dominant market share, and it's ludicrous to use market share as a metric when the little guy is pulling in cash like crazy. Look at Nintendo for a similar phenomenon.


RE: Amazing...
By ClownPuncher on 3/16/2010 4:04:12 PM , Rating: 2
No doubt, I wish I had jumped on that Apple stock years ago. The only things I dislike about the company are their marketing campaigns smearing their competition and their pricing.

Even so, Microsoft is a bigger company that makes more money. There are more risks, definitely, yet being able to afford those risks can really pay off.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Amazing...
By 67STANG on 3/16/2010 4:19:35 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft jumped on Apple's stock in 1997 to the tune of $150 million. That's why Apple even exists today.

http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2009/08/dayinte...


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 4:31:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Even so, Microsoft is a bigger company that makes more money.

Yup. And again, there are a lot of companies, bigger than Apple, that make less money. Just as there are a lot of companies roughly the same size as Apple that make less money.

I'm only arguing against the "market share" metric as a means of determining success, because it's clear that hogging market share has its pros and cons. If Apple is going to position itself as an "alternative" to most other machines, trying to suck up market share won't necessarily help.


RE: Amazing...
By Luticus on 3/16/2010 2:38:39 PM , Rating: 3
i wasn't saying that's it's good/bad to be the little guy, only that people use Windows because they like it and because it's a good product. Microsoft would never have been able to achieve it's current place in the market if Apple's way of doing business is "right", that's all I'm saying...


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 4:26:57 PM , Rating: 2
You're putting the cart before the horse. Apple would never have been able to achieve its current place in the market if Microsoft had never been able to achieve its place in the market. Apple's strategy is laid out as it is BECAUSE of Microsoft.


RE: Amazing...
By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 8:25:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Who cares about dominating a market when you can make a ton of money as the little guy?


Cause the big guys move the market.


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 8:35:52 PM , Rating: 2
The speed at which they move the market is directly proportional to their size. Big companies have big influence, but they also have a lot of momentum, and if that momentum has been carrying them in a lousy direction it's very hard to turn the ship around.

Market domination is indeed a positive aspect of being a big company; lack of agility and ability to rapidly respond to market fluctuations is the downside... otherwise, the Zune would be doing much better.


RE: Amazing...
By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 8:45:57 PM , Rating: 2
Umm...if they've been moving in a lousy direction, they don't turn the ship. They jump ship and get in a new ship that's already going in a different direction.

MS with Windows Me? Jumped ship.
Toshiba with HD-DVD? Jumped ship.

The only time it's a slow turnaround, is cause it's development time for the product or the company simply doesn't want to let go. Like Intel with netburst. The CEO simply didn't want to let go of it.

I'm not sure how Zune has anything to do with anything. MS came to the game extremely late and even then, they aren't even playing in a worldwide market. To me, it's more of a wonder that it's still around.


RE: Amazing...
By subverb on 3/16/2010 11:17:09 AM , Rating: 3
You are without question the most biased person I have ever seen on any subject. Every article with Apple there you are, just cupping Jobs' knob. Apple overcharges for lesser equipment and that's not opinion ITS FACT. When you accept this, that your golden child isn't so golden, people will listen to what you have to say and not just what you can repeat from an Apple press release.


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/10, Rating: 0
RE: Amazing...
By Abrahmm on 3/16/2010 12:21:37 PM , Rating: 5
"Latest survey shows Apple customers are happiest"

Well you know what they say, "As intelligence goes up, happiness often goes down", so it's no surprise Apple customers are happy eh?


RE: Amazing...
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 2:09:56 PM , Rating: 4
It's difficult for people to admit they've bought into something and it's problems.
I used to work in Dixons, many, many years ago selling tech and if it's one thing I realised, it's that people really are stupid.
"Is this stereo good?"
"Why yes, sir, it's great, it has this and this" Sold.

"Is this stereo good?"
"It's not that good, but this one over here...." 50/50 chance of a lost sale.

People like feeling good and once they move from Windows/Dell/HP/Acer etc, they feel good as they've managed to make a choice and feel shiny. Get them to admit there's a problem? No. No way in hell. Why not? It's probably THEIR fault that they had so many virus infected malware problems in the first place and if they couldn't ADMIT that it's their fault, then they're NEVER going to admit that they have problems with a mac.

I'm sure you can see what I'm getting at


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 2:19:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's difficult for people to admit they've bought into something and it's problems.

Similarly, it's difficult for people that didn't buy into something to understand its positives.


RE: Amazing...
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 4:49:27 PM , Rating: 3
This is true. For instance, I recently purchased a Dell XT for a very cheap price. I read about the positives and negatives etc.

Bag of crap. So amazingly slow that it hurt.

I then inserted an SSD drive and although it's still not perfect, it's miles better. I would not recommend one without the SSD.

Now, get an iPhone owner to admit the faults of the iPhone or mac....


RE: Amazing...
By QueBert on 3/17/2010 1:52:04 AM , Rating: 2
My iPhone still has plenty of faults, every phone does though. With that said The 2 dozen cell phones I've owned, my iPhone is my favorite by leaps and bonds...


RE: Amazing...
By damianrobertjones on 3/17/2010 4:24:04 AM , Rating: 2
Damn straight.

My last phone was a Toshiba TG01. Lovely phone, amazingly thin and lasted an age with the extended battery that made it a brick.

But...

The banging noises heard by callers, not by me, ruined a near perfect phone. Shame. I wouldn't recommend that phone to anyone which is a shame.


RE: Amazing...
By Abrahmm on 3/16/2010 2:47:43 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, I've been feeling those same sentiments for a while. I've always assumed that a lot of the "Apple satisfaction" was somewhat of a placebo effect where these people convince themselves that the product is so amazing to try and justify all that money they spent on it. Asking a Mac user what makes it better is usually responded with either a direct quote from the ridiculously false marketing ads, or something intangible like "You just don't understand the Apple experience", which just reinforces my thoughts.


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 3:21:02 PM , Rating: 2
Why do you expect anybody to justify any of their purchases to you? Chances are most Mac users that you accost in such a manner are too busy being flabbergasted that you care so much.


RE: Amazing...
By Abrahmm on 3/16/2010 3:38:58 PM , Rating: 2
I never said I ask them to justify their purchase to me, I ask how it is better, which is a logical question seeing as how much Mac users tout how much better it is.


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/10, Rating: 0
RE: Amazing...
By Abrahmm on 3/16/2010 5:04:02 PM , Rating: 2
Heh... I don't think you know what "justify" means...

"1 a : to prove or show to be just, right, or reasonable"

Justifying your purchase, and showing why something is better are two completely different things.

Say you have two computers that are completely identical with the exception that one has a 2.0ghz processor and costs $200, the other has a 3.0ghz processor and costs $200,000,000,000.

I can show that the 3.0ghz processor makes the second computer BETTER, but in no way am I trying to JUSTIFY buying one. Get it?

But lets be honest. Have you ever seen an Apple user pass up an opportunity to brag about how great their Mac is? No, they aren't caught up in why I give a damn, if that were the case no one would ever review anything.


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 8:07:32 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Get it?

Yes, you are incapable of parsing a passage to extract the salient information.

The saddest part is you think you still have a point.


RE: Amazing...
By Alexstarfire on 3/16/2010 8:16:01 PM , Rating: 2
No, the saddest part is that you fail to comprehend what you read.


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 8:19:40 PM , Rating: 2
Except I've comprehended everything in this thread. If you think I've misunderstood something, please identify the error so I may correct it. I'd hate for an innocent misunderstanding to stand in the way of a great friendship.


RE: Amazing...
By Alexstarfire on 3/16/2010 8:23:11 PM , Rating: 2
You misunderstand the different between justify and better. They aren't the same even though in many cases they can be considered synonyms.


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 8:41:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You misunderstand the different between justify and better.

Not at all. You're just refusing to admit that, by asking Mac owners to tell them why it's "better", you're asking them to justify their decision. That's just how the English language works. I know it's a little abstract, especially if English isn't your first language, but that's just what those words, in that order and in this context, mean.

And since you can't even accept the fact that you're randomly accosting people and demanding information that they never expected (and shouldn't expect, from a random lunatic like you) to be demanded of them. You're surprised that they don't have a satisfying response to your query, yet you never stop to consider they simplest explanation of all: They don't know why you're even asking.

Note that last sentence, as that's the "salient" information you've been failing to "parse" from my posts. Thought I'd give you a hand there, considering that you still have only a rudimentary grasp of this wacky foreign tongue.


RE: Amazing...
By Alexstarfire on 3/16/2010 11:40:12 PM , Rating: 2
No, that not what it means and that's why I said it's sad on your part. The End.


RE: Amazing...
By Abrahmm on 3/17/2010 2:29:46 AM , Rating: 2
Alex, if he still can't understand the difference between "justify" and "better" even when multiple people have pointed out his error with examples, he isn't even worth discussing with.


RE: Amazing...
By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 8:39:28 PM , Rating: 2
You actually had to ask? They usually just try and tell me how much it is better. Like I'll be sitting there in an airport, with my netbook, waiting for a couple hours for my plane. When some random douchebag with an Macbook comes along and tries to tell me how much better it is. Like it's faster, longer battery life, and so on.

Then I proceed to tell him that all I do on my netbook is watch videos and am not willing to spend over $1,000+, just to watch videos. That's when he gave me a weird stare. Packed up and left that weirdo.


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 8:45:03 PM , Rating: 1
Yup, 'cuz Mac owners have a monopoly on being pompous blowhards about their gear. PC owners collectively represent the epitome of decorum. Right.

Listen, some people are assholes. In any group. And since we're psychologically more prone to retaining negative experiences than positive, we remember the assholes much more than the scores of Mac owners that A: don't care, B: never say a thing, and C: are tired of all the PC owners telling them that they "wasted their money" and that Apple is "robbing them blind" with a "reality distortion field".


RE: Amazing...
By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 9:02:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Mac owners have a monopoly on being pompous blowhards about their gear


I thought Apple had to trademark, copyright, and patent "being pompous blowhards" for their commercials.


RE: Amazing...
By damianrobertjones on 3/17/2010 4:18:01 AM , Rating: 2
PC owners were happy and are happy, that is, until 'new' mac owners appeared in nearly every single damn tech forum (even car forums) stating, 'Get a mac' whenever someone posted a pc problem.

It's that kind of thing from Mac owners that wind pc owners up no end while all along, we do know that both macs and pcs suffer the same kind of problems. Just look at the support forums....

We can all point fingers but when you return to the 'start', it's pretty obvious... . Either way, that's not really a valid point now that time has moved forward. Both sides should stop.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Amazing...
By 1reader on 3/16/2010 1:23:12 PM , Rating: 4
Personally, I bash Apple because I disagree with their business practices, not because I love Windows or Microsoft, or Ballmer or Gates. "It's Apple's right to operate the way they want," you argue? Fine then, it's my right to bash them for it.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 1:45:40 PM , Rating: 2
I think you got downrated for more than just that, and there was a definitive difference in tone and content 'tween yours and 'Tater's post.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 2:10:29 PM , Rating: 3
"Microsoft should consider a hardware line in my opinion."

Vs.

"MS definitely needs its line of hardware"

Quite a significant difference in those two statements. The All-Caps aren't helping your case, and in all honesty, it looks like you have a bit of a reputation.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 2:36:21 PM , Rating: 3
You can try to argue this as if you can hit the right magical rhetorical code that will make it go away (hint: there's not), or you can recognize that there are specifics to your behavior and statements that result in you getting downrated. Your first homework assignment is to figure out exactly why the tone of Potato's comment was so vastly different from your own.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 4:35:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Oh that one is so easy it didn't take even a second to work it out

Then why are you so confused?

quote:
Now I understand, you're new here.

Been reading Dailytech and its assorted comments since before it was Dailytech.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Amazing...
By Alexstarfire on 3/16/2010 8:20:46 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks, you are one funny guy. Did you know that? The reason why you get downrated so much is more because all you do in most posts is throw around insults. Calling everyone who disagrees with you a "wintroll" (whatever that is) is just going to make you look like a douche, even if they happen to agree with you.

What makes you truly funny though is that you spout how awesome Apple is with their products, yet don't own any. I don't think anyone could be more of a hypocrite if they tried for the rest of their life. Who says one product is "better" than another, yet buys the "crappier" product anyway? Can't be money cause you apparently have a good bit to throw around based on many of your other posts.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/17/2010 9:35:54 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Who says one product is "better" than another, yet buys the "crappier" product anyway?
Me, 'cause I'm a techie and because of this I buy products that are good for techies and crappy for mass consumers, for instance Windows and PCs.


RE: Amazing...
By Nekrik on 3/16/2010 5:38:29 PM , Rating: 3
ooh, I saw the answer to this in the teachers grade book. It's becauser one comes across as a pompous jackass and the other one doesn't. Unfortunately, it didn't say which was which.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 6:11:48 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
it didn't say which was which
lemme guess - the one swinging nine iron was a jackass? right? ;)


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 8:12:27 PM , Rating: 2
Just check which one makes the most assumptions, such as "You're new here" and "They'll just downrate me anyway, bawwww!"


RE: Amazing...
By themaster08 on 3/19/2010 4:37:26 AM , Rating: 2
Pirks, your opinions, valid or not, they're not the problem. The problem is that no one likes you.

Now, I'm not trying to be insulting or a "wintroll" as you put it, that's just the way it is. It all has to do with what everyone else is saying. Your persona.


RE: Amazing...
By 1reader on 3/16/2010 2:56:30 PM , Rating: 2
To be honest, people might well be downrating you just because you're Pirks. You have a history of going against the general grain here, so they assume you're saying something contrary, or they just downrate you for the lulz.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 3:02:25 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly what I was saying. You get downrated EVEN IF YOU POST HARD FACTS HERE, because only your nickname matters, not the content of your post. Another proof that a lot of people like reader1, Tony Swash and myself are getting downrated for speaking truth ;)


RE: Amazing...
By Luticus on 3/16/2010 3:08:07 PM , Rating: 4
You don't get down rated for speaking the "truth", you get down rated for being an @$$hole about it! Doesn't matter if what you say is true as true can be, no one wants to hear it from a douche bag. No offense but if you'd come across as trying to be informative or helpful instead of throwing mud you'd probably get better results. Such as your post on getting osx on vmware a while back, that was very interesting. However when you often punctuate your posts with "bitch" it comes across the wrong way.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: 0
RE: Amazing...
By Alexstarfire on 3/16/2010 8:25:27 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps, but not in all of them. If you'd like some proof just look at your post above this one. It's still at a 2, which is think is your highest rated post of all time, but I'm not gonna check on that. You have no foul language in there and it hasn't been downrated at all.


RE: Amazing...
By themaster08 on 3/19/2010 4:45:26 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Nah, I learned a LONG time ago that my posts are getting downrated not depending on the language. You'll see tons of nasty dirty language posts from chicko here, all full of personal attacks, all with swearing, b-word, f-word, a-word and many others - and they get uprated. You should have understood by now why this happens, as you are not the new guy here, right?

I'll admit that this does happen, but not half as much as you make out.

Just because your posts are getting downrated even though they're informative, that all-of-a-sudden makes it right to throw insults into the equation, because you'll only get downrated anyway?

No. If you want your opinions to be valued (forget -1's, think of the responses to your comments) you need to change your reputation, then people might change their opinion about you. That takes time. After all, you've been doing that ever since I started coming to DT.

Your opinions are absolutely valid most of the time, but the hint of self-righteousness and bigotry I feel in the tone of the comment just forces me to not take you seriously.


RE: Amazing...
By inighthawki on 3/16/2010 3:36:20 PM , Rating: 2
Uh, no offense, but your "name" gets a rep BASED on the content of your posts. If you really want to test your theory though, try creating a new user name and post as usual, surely we can then dismiss any foul play?


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 3:48:05 PM , Rating: 2
creating new name means surrendering to brainless downrating zombies, that's not manly ;)


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 4:38:23 PM , Rating: 3
And denial of your culpability in your own reputation turns you into a brainless whining zombie. That's even less manly.

The fault is nobody's but yours. You can adjust your behavior to not be abrasive, accusatory, and hysterical (simply CUTTING OUT the ALL-CAPS segments of your POSTS would be a GOOD START), or you can keep whining and perpetuate your rep. Isn't it nice knowing that you have so much power and control over your own situation? I know it makes me feel warm and snuggly at night.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: 0
RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 8:09:46 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
There's no point in all that shit since I'll be downrated anyway

The assumption of inevitability in order to avoid putting effort into one's existence. Self-defeating behavior is self-defeating.


RE: Amazing...
By themaster08 on 3/19/2010 4:51:03 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
There's no point in all that shit since I'll be downrated anyway, as a proof of this you can look through all my posts and find gazillions of perfectly polite and to the point purely technical posts of mine that were downrated to -1.

There are hundreds of posters and thousands of readers in every article of this site. It takes just 3 of them to downrate you to -1. Why are you so butt hurt about that?

Forget the -1's, your comment is valued on the grounds of it's responses, not it's rating.


RE: Amazing...
By inighthawki on 3/16/2010 5:24:59 PM , Rating: 2
No, it is called an experiment. Refusing to do so only means that you accept no possible solution other than the fact that you are right.


RE: Amazing...
By croc on 3/16/2010 9:13:06 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks, you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the ass. Market-speak is not 'truth', every pronouncement that comes out of Jobs mouth, or Ballmer's for that matter, is not the 'truth'. Back when Macs were using Motorolla 68x series, apple could claim some difference over PCs. That was a truth. Then when they started using IBM PPC's, they could still claim a difference. So that was a truth as well.

But when apple abandoned the RISC market, (and I do know why, in both cases) for the x86 market they gave up all rights to claiming a difference. So apple gave up on the techno front, and now depend only on the marketing front... And the truth is that the apple 'Experience' costs consumers more for less.

BTW, as you are such an apple fan, I happen to have 7 g5's in storage that you can have just for the transport costs... I managed to give five away to some EDU's, as spare parts for some they still have in use...


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/17/2010 9:42:12 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Market-speak is not 'truth', every pronouncement that comes out of Jobs mouth, or Ballmer's for that matter, is not the 'truth'
When I say truth it's truth, not some market speak. When I say MS rips off iPhone in WinMo7 by a) disabling multitasking b) disabling app installation from non-MS places c) disabling cut/paste, etc etc - I say absolute truth, and everyone here knows this. So this post of mine will get downrated just like others because I said the truth. Why? Because truth hurts winzealots. They just can't stand the hard cold fact that MS keeps ripping off Apple designs all the time. So since they can't change anything they keep shooting the messenger, as if downrating me suddenly stops MS from ripping off Apple. Doh, what a bunch of kuckoos.


RE: Amazing...
By Alexstarfire on 3/17/2010 4:08:33 PM , Rating: 2
WinMob 7 keeps looking like more and more crap every time a new article about it comes up.


RE: Amazing...
By themaster08 on 3/19/2010 5:00:16 AM , Rating: 2
I was quite interested in it at first. Then recent developments have put me off it entirely.

Pirks is right for the most part. It's just too similar to the iPhone.

For me, closed platform = closed wallet.


RE: Amazing...
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 4:46:10 PM , Rating: 1
Seriously, there's probably one or two people that will ALWAYS donrate your replies. 'Not' because of what they put, but because they just do it and probably not because they may or may not be a Windows 'fan'


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 5:52:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
there's probably one or two people that will ALWAYS donrate your replies. 'Not' because of what they put, but because they just do it and probably not because they may or may not be a Windows 'fan'
Yeah, because they're butthurt by the truth/facts :))) heheheee


RE: Amazing...
By themaster08 on 3/19/2010 5:05:18 AM , Rating: 2
It could be any reason. Who knows? Why should you care?

Your insults get you nowhere other than giving people more of an excuse to rate you down, and forcing other posters' not to take you seriously.

Your comments would be valued by the people responding, isn't that what matters?


RE: Amazing...
By MrBlastman on 3/16/2010 10:08:35 AM , Rating: 5
There's a sucker born every minute and they keep breeding at an exponentially increasing rate. Apple stands to profit quite nicely I hate to say. :(


RE: Amazing...
By marvdmartian on 3/16/2010 10:40:36 AM , Rating: 3
The facts prove that point, as well as this one: "A fool and his money are soon parted!" ;)


RE: Amazing...
By inperfectdarkness on 3/16/2010 1:03:13 PM , Rating: 2
wow...stealing my quotes now? :(


RE: Amazing...
By ClownPuncher on 3/16/2010 4:13:13 PM , Rating: 1
Shit, you invented that? How about 'He who laughs last, laughs best' or 'Don't count your chickens before they're hatched'? My Grandpa LOVES your work!


RE: Amazing...
By Drag0nFire on 3/16/2010 10:31:16 AM , Rating: 1
For what it's worth, I can understand why they haven't updated the MacBook Pro. The new generation is faster, but at the expense of power efficiency. The new CPUs all have a 35 Watt TDP, and Apple cannot deliver the 6-8 hour battery life that has become expected of them with these parts.

Although I hate all things Apple, I have a lot of respect for their unwillingness to compromise the user experience for selling points. This is why people (other than myself) pay a premium for their products, and other manufacturers would do well to take note.


RE: Amazing...
By Luticus on 3/16/2010 10:39:48 AM , Rating: 2
It's not so much their hardware that bothers me. Yea, it's a little dated but that's really not *that* big of a deal. It's also a little pricey but if people will pay it then, whatever. My problem with Apple is that when you purchase their products they lock you into a closed platform and tell you what's good for you. When you buy a Mac you're buying into tyranny, and I'm not ready to be that heavily invested in a product.

But if other people are, i think that's great. so long as Apple doesn't become dominate or detract from the development of Windows by 3rd parties somehow, then I'm happy for them.


RE: Amazing...
By Reclaimer77 on 3/16/2010 10:54:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I have a lot of respect for their unwillingness to compromise the user experience for selling points.


Right because a notebook with no optical drive, one usb port, no firewire etc etc all so it can fit in an envelope and be eye candy isn't compromising the user experience for style at all right ?


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 1:49:29 PM , Rating: 1
If the Macbook Air had replaced the entire Macbook lineup, you'd have a point.


RE: Amazing...
By Reclaimer77 on 3/16/2010 2:47:48 PM , Rating: 2
I have a point and you know it. Apple compromises the user experience on a daily basis to deliver the "gee wiz" factor. They sell style over substance.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 3:15:10 PM , Rating: 2
You call weight/size/thickness/battery efficiency a "style" when they are just another metrics that are as important as performance? Okay, I'll be calling performance a "style" then, just as arbitrarily as you do :P


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 4:42:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple compromises the user experience on a daily basis to deliver the "gee wiz" factor.

Outside of one of the least significant products in their portfolio, could you describe some of the other compromises they make on a "daily basis" and explain exactly what it does to the user experience?


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 5:48:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Outside of one of the least significant products in their portfolio, could you describe some of the other compromises they make on a "daily basis" and explain exactly what it does to the user experience?
ZOMG THEY DON'T MAKE LAPTOPS WITH CORE I7 QUAD INSIDE AND HOW CAN YOU WORK ON A LAPTOP IF IT DOESN'T HAVE 10000000000 BENCHES IN 3DMARK 2010??? AND DO YOU KNOW THAT THEIR NV 9600 GPUS ARE SOOO OLD THEY DON'T EVEN SUPPORT DX11!!!!111!!ZOMG111!!11!!! (C) Reclaimer and his benchmark loving DIY-UBER-ALLES fanatical buddies :P


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 8:15:26 PM , Rating: 2
Remember when I was gave you some advice about using all-caps? Remember when you were described as a pompous jackass? You should print this post out and tape it right next to your monitor, so if you ever type anything that remotely resembles that crap, you'll know beforehand that you'll be downrated.


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/17/2010 9:46:50 AM , Rating: 2
Learn to understand irony


RE: Amazing...
By themaster08 on 3/19/2010 5:15:09 AM , Rating: 2
Whilst I don't like how your posts come across for the most part, you have a completely valid point. I actually found your post quite humorous, particularly the benches part.

You're right though. Performance isn't the be all and end all factor of which the masses purchase their notebooks, but it's natural you will get that sort of response in a tech-oriented community. You just have to accept that.

The only issue I have with Apple are their business practices, not their products.


RE: Amazing...
By DandDAddict on 3/16/2010 10:56:03 AM , Rating: 3
The new generation overall uses less power.

The southbridge and north bridge for the c2 series use alot of power. Its ~3.3w for the south bridge and about 14w or so for the northbridge that apple most likely uses.

Plus they could save a ton of power moving to the 3xx or 5xxx series gpus from nvida and ati respectively.


RE: Amazing...
By Drag0nFire on 3/17/2010 10:15:23 AM , Rating: 2
Although this should be the case, it has not been.

I'm a Thinkpad user, so the best example for me is the T400 (Core2duo) and T410 (core i5/i7). The latter is reported to have significantly reduced battery life.


RE: Amazing...
By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 9:05:46 PM , Rating: 2
Newer hardware tends to be more powerful and more power efficient at the same time. Such is the case with the latest Intel offerings.


RE: Amazing...
By crystal clear on 3/16/2010 11:18:27 AM , Rating: 3
Also-

Apple has made believers out of millions of customers — and made a lot of investors rich


RE: Amazing...
By crystal clear on 3/16/2010 7:19:43 PM , Rating: 2
Want something Amazing-

"Apple has been able to generate over $75 million in revenue in one day on a product that 99.9% of purchasers haven't touched or for that matter, even seen in person," said Victor Castroll, an analyst with Valcent Financial Group.

"And, we're still three weeks away. That is amazing ."

Can you Applebashers generate $75 million in revenue in one day ?

NO WAY !

Let the bashing continue.....& ofcourse rating down comments also continue....simply amazing.


RE: Amazing...
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 8:17:43 PM , Rating: 2
If people spend $75 million on something one likes, then it's an awesome product.

If people spend $75 million on something one doesn't like, all those people are stupid and sheep and all sorts of other colorful idioms to describe poor intellect.


RE: Amazing...
By crystal clear on 3/16/2010 10:57:22 PM , Rating: 2
all those people are stupid and sheep and all sorts of other colorful idioms to describe poor intellect

Just because you dont like Apple products or the ipad,that doesnt mean the others think like you !.

That doesnt make you any better or worse than them,its a matter of choice & preferences.

Its their money & they decide-you got to respect their choice,thats what retail marketing is about.


RE: Amazing...
By Alexstarfire on 3/16/2010 8:37:30 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, that's not even that much. I'm sure even the 2010 Prius made more revenue than that in one day, and it's not even a very popular car. I wish I could find some actual data on 1st day sales (basically just pre-orders) to back it up but I can't find any. Considering the cost they wouldn't even need to have sold 3500 to make more than $75 million in 1 day. Seems easily doable.

Though if you mean in PC sales, or Windows sales, then I'm sure they far surpass that on a daily basis. Perhaps not one company individually, but as a whole. You must remember that you're not arguing against any one company in your statement, but all PC makers as a collective. What you said is just silly.


RE: Amazing...
By Alexstarfire on 3/16/2010 8:40:13 PM , Rating: 2
Funny, as soon as I posted this I found a link that has the pre-order sales.

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1032917_toyota-...

It says they had over 8000 pre-orders and that's more than enough to make over $75,000,000 in revenue.


RE: Amazing...
By Hiawa23 on 3/16/2010 11:27:47 AM , Rating: 2
I don't own anything by Apple, will probably never, as their prices are ridiculous, but with all the scratch MS has in the war chest you would think they would get into the hardware business.


RE: Amazing...
By The0ne on 3/16/2010 11:50:15 AM , Rating: 2
Leave the zombies be dammit! Don't you know it's easier to discuss quantum theories and dark matter/energy than to talk to these people!


RE: Amazing...
By Phynaz on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Amazing...
By hiscross on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Amazing...
By akugami on 3/16/2010 1:59:44 PM , Rating: 2
Well, to be honest, those at Anandtech, Dailytech, HardOCP, etc. are not the norm. Regular average users (who make up the lions share of buyers) would not even notice the speed difference from desktops and laptops from two years ago, much less last year. It is only the technophiles that care about updated hardware.

With that said, the Macbook line is actually not that badly priced, as long as you don't opt for extras. It's still a little higher priced but at the same time build quality is a higher than the $400 laptop you'd find at Best Buys or Walmart. I haven't looked at the Mac desktops as I'm not in the market for one, and haven't owned a Mac in over 10 years.

The Macbook line, coupled with amazing battery life on some of the models and you can see why some want Macbooks. Hell, it wasn't until the Asus UL series that I considered anything but a Macbook for my next laptop purchase. I don't need a laptop that can run Crysis at high resolution and with the kitchen sink of effects on. When I'm going mobile, I want battery life and its unquestionable the Macbook line delivers.

To a degree, the media loves flashy products. Apple has almost always delivered on this front with a lot of industrial design award wins. And while their computers are minuscule in market share, it traditionally housed important software to much of the industry that the media must deal with. Namely desktop publishing. Is it any wonder that the press loves Macs when traditionally the publishing industry as a stronghold for Mac software and hardware? And that's not counting their dominance in recent years in the online music sales and iPods/iPhones/MAXiPads.


RE: Amazing...
By lewisc on 3/16/2010 6:51:28 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. I'm a Mac owner and not afraid to admit to being one, even on this forum! I used to build my own computers; I went through the phase of seeing just how much I could tweak out of a standard processor for a little extra performance. I then discovered that there was more to my life than headaches from home built, unreliable (probably the fault of my constant tinkering), frankly unattractive computers!

I no longer play games on my computers, therefore I have absolutely no need to stunning speed. If my computer plays movies, starts quickly, operates quietly, organises my music library and allows me to work, I'm fine. Plus, having an iMac looking pretty on the table is a very welcome bonus!

Yes, it's more expensive. But hey, I worked for that money and I'm going to choose how to spend it. And maybe it does lack some capabilities (no Bluray...really? And don't even get me started on Excel for the Mac), some of which I get around by using boot camp, some of which I deal with. Life is full of compromises; I'm not ashamed to admit I still feel a childish delight with how good the iMac looks!

I simply don't understand the Pavlovian reaction so many readers of this forum seem to experience whenever Apple is mentioned. I'm not spending your money, I'm making a rational decision to choose form over performance, to accept that in some respects I'm tied into iTunes and that I'll be in some ways more constrained using a Mac. I'm in no way naive, intellectually subnormal or uninformed. Please, dear readers, stop assuming that I am!

(apologies, akugami, for hijacking your reply. However, your first paragraph hit the nail on the head!)


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 7:18:26 PM , Rating: 2
Well, SavagePotato promised once to crush your teeth with his nine iron (right potato? afraid to admit now coward? ;) since you're a Mac user, so beware, he's lurking around right now!

Anyway, in general it's a stupid idea to defend your choice here, since a lot of DT readers are PC fanatics and/or Ballmer cocksuckers, so the only thing you achieve will be downrating, that's all.


RE: Amazing...
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 7:33:04 PM , Rating: 2
Calling a forum 'co*k suckers REALLy should get you banned as it's not nice, impolite and basically wrong.

Any rational argument you have also goes out the window. Please, try not to let the negative people turn you into that what they are..

:)


RE: Amazing...
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 7:51:46 PM , Rating: 2
You better teach SavagePotato how to behave, he needs that way more than I am.


RE: Amazing...
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 7:31:41 PM , Rating: 2
All valid points and well expressed.

I also wouldn't see, from your reply, you entering pc fourms and typing 'Buy a mac' from mac onwers when people try to say that they have a problem.

The 'smug' mac owners need to come back to reality a little. It's a machine, no better or worse than the pc.


From the negative you get the positive !
By crystal clear on 3/16/10, Rating: 0
RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By someguy123 on 3/16/2010 2:18:02 PM , Rating: 2
Here's one for ya

"A sociopathic man is one who has personality disorder characterized by amorality and lack of affect."

So keep robing people blind - 90% of the world simply hates you!


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 2:39:41 PM , Rating: 2
It's clueless drama-queen hyperbole like this that makes PC fans look like idiots. A company that convinces its market that its products are worth it is something to be praised, not demonized. Unless you hate capitalism, the free market, and competition, I suppose.


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By Luticus on 3/16/2010 3:20:38 PM , Rating: 2
Unless of course by "convinces" you mean throwing mud at your competition and spouting outright lies about their products, while artificially inflating your own products with your insignificant market share in order to establish a false sense of security. Then you're definitely NOT worthy of praise.

See it's all about tact.


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 3:23:31 PM , Rating: 2
Oh noes, Apple's ad campaign works! They are t3h evilzZz!

If it's all about tact, how come so many Apple detractors lack it?


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By Luticus on 3/16/2010 3:43:51 PM , Rating: 2
Two wrongs don't make a right and people will be people. However when a big company does wrong it does way heavier and people should support it, in my opinion. That's all I'm saying.

I'm not even trying to say Microsoft can do no wrong, because they have before and chances are at some point they will again. I simply don't support closed platforms (regarding computers) and don't want to see one "win".

And before you ask why I care, I don't. If people want to use Mac, go right ahead, I'll even give you computer advice and try to help you troubleshoot it if you like and all with out giving you crap for having it. This, however, is a discussion and I'm choosing to voice my opinion about the said topic.


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 4:22:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I simply don't support closed platforms
I smell a Linux user here :))) Enjoying your open platform by doing some kernel hacking eh? ;) Do you love coreboot then? Hacking your own POST loader no? :)) I mean you're the open platform guy so you don't support Windows then, right? :)


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By Luticus on 3/16/2010 4:34:19 PM , Rating: 2
Yes i do use linux, Debian to be precise. However, i do in fact use windows on 90% of my systems. Why? Because by open i didn't mean open source but open as in i can install it on what i want and i can install what i want on it. it doesn't regulate what i can do with it through eula, and is only limited by it's technical design. Even more than that, while i love my linux systems i'm prefer windows to linux almost every time. I put linux where i think it can best be used and i put windows on everything else. Though yes i'm also a fan and supporter of open source and a fan of the designer getting paid for his product so i believe both systems have a right to exist. I'm not even saying that mac shouldn't be here, only that i hope that it never gains significant market share.


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By Penti on 3/16/2010 4:54:31 PM , Rating: 2
Since when is OS X a more closed ecosystem then Microsoft Windows? You have the source to the kernel and a lot of components. You don't need to have the drivers signed for them to run. You can install whatever you want and so on. I'm sure you don't install legal versions of Windows on your DIY machines either so why care that they are not an ISV selling you OS software. OS X is not iPhone OS. OEM versions of Windows aren't licensed to run on your DIY PC.


By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 10:00:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
OEM versions of Windows aren't licensed to run on your DIY PC.


Full retail copies are available for purchase. Also, according to those that are MS moderators on their site, they will tell you that you can install OEM versions on a DIY PC.

What a home system builder can do is pretty murky.


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 5:14:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
it doesn't regulate what i can do with it through eula
Man you're so naive, it's clear that you never read all those Windows OEM copy EULAs that explicitly prohibit buying and installing Windows OEM on a computer if the computer is NOT for sale. You don't even know basics, like many many other naive winusers here.


By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 5:19:34 PM , Rating: 2
But.. as we ALL know, we can still move that OEM lic to another machine and get it activated.

Both sides have naive people and I can see that most of the posts on this thread are 'picking' at little bits to further things.

At the end of the day, we ALL know that Windows is far, far more 'open' than OSX. Not one person can deny that.


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 5:57:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But.. as we ALL know, we can still move that OEM lic to another machine and get it activated
But.. as we ALL know, we can still install OS X on a PC and get it working. So what? ;))
quote:
we ALL know that Windows is far, far more 'open' than OSX
Especially the Windows kernel source and HTML/JS rendering engine are soooo 'open' compared to those in OS X, ahahahahahaaa :)))) Post some more funny stuff plz ;) I like it


By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 7:37:31 PM , Rating: 2
Can you move OSX onto ANY pc? Can you install OSX onto the same amount of pc's as WIndows 7 oem or Vista oem or XP oem?

If you want to pick at people's posts, then so be it. You KNOW what I was trying to say.

... Most of the damn posts on this page REALLy are just picking at each other? madness


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 7:56:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Can you move OSX onto ANY pc?
Can you get IE or Windows kernel source code like in OS X? No? Then why are you guys pretending that Windows is somehow "more open"?


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By Alexstarfire on 3/16/2010 8:53:24 PM , Rating: 2
Probably because they don't have an EULA that states OS X can only be installed on Apple machines.


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By Pirks on 3/17/2010 10:01:41 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Probably because they don't have an EULA that states OS X can only be installed on Apple machines
This doesn't make Windows more open. You can't compensate for the lack of source code with some EULA clauses. Not. Gonna. Work.


By Alexstarfire on 3/17/2010 3:59:27 PM , Rating: 2
I guess you and I have a different definition of open then. Open != open source != source code. The fact that you can view source code doesn't mean jack crap.


By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 9:58:19 PM , Rating: 2
Windows 2000's source code is out there. Get it while it's hot!


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By croc on 3/16/2010 10:58:43 PM , Rating: 2
Please provide me with the source for OSX kernel...


By Pirks on 3/17/2010 9:27:56 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Please provide me with the source for OSX kernel
http://sourceforge.net/projects/darwinsource


By damianrobertjones on 3/17/2010 4:25:14 AM , Rating: 2
an you move OSX onto ANY pc? Can you install OSX onto the same amount of pc's as WIndows 7 oem or Vista oem or XP oem?

If you want to pick at people's posts, then so be it. You KNOW what I was trying to say.

... Most of the damn posts on this page REALLy are just picking at each other? madness


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By Luticus on 3/16/2010 5:43:15 PM , Rating: 2
that's OEM which is a special case. you still have the CHOICE of purchasing a full retail copy of winodws and installing it on whatever you want... period. try putting osx on and in-dash pc in your car without breaking EULA and then get back to me.


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 6:07:49 PM , Rating: 2
try to understand what's going on inside the windows kernel or inside IE without having source code like in OS X, then get back to me.


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By Alexstarfire on 3/16/2010 8:57:10 PM , Rating: 2
Weren't you the one stating that Apple has a right to protect their IP? That's all Microsoft is really doing. That said, I'm pretty sure if you're a developer or hardware manufacturer you can look at almost all of the source code for Windows. I could be wrong about that since I haven't read anything on the subject in many years. That said, who wants to look at IE source code anyway? Even Windows source code isn't all that important. If we really needed to look at source code to do stuff we'd all be using Linux.


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By Pirks on 3/17/2010 10:16:01 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
That said, who wants to look at IE source code anyway? Even Windows source code isn't all that important.
It's important if you want to find which platform is more open.


By Alexstarfire on 3/17/2010 4:06:03 PM , Rating: 2
See my other comment on this.


By Abrahmm on 3/17/2010 2:45:34 AM , Rating: 2
The only reason the source of the OS X kernel is available is because after years of failing to make a decent OS on their own Apple had to take BSD and throw a pretty interface on it to make something worth while. If that were not the case, I would put money on the kernel source never coming out. As Jobs has said, "We stole a lot of technology from other people and we aren't going to sit around and let people steal what we stole first" or something like that (paraphrased to remove the lying).


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 4:55:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Two wrongs don't make a right and people will be people.

Nonsensical fluff. C'mon, give some concrete details.

quote:
However when a big company does wrong it does way heavier and people should support it, in my opinion.

So they claim their platform to be better in some way than the majority of the competition; which is an opinion. Yet you attack them for expressing that opinion. I don't get it; your point is internally contradictory.

quote:
This, however, is a discussion and I'm choosing to voice my opinion about the said topic.

So you care only because you can? That's awesome. Go you. You keep on caring about nothing for no reason.


By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 5:21:56 PM , Rating: 2
Luticus seems to be making his points while you're picking at his.

How about, "I can see where you're coming from, but have you looked at it this way.."

Yay


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 8:22:15 PM , Rating: 2
Luticus shmuticus. The original assertion was "Apple robs people blind". I retorted that this is ridiculous hyperbole. Luticus seems to think otherwise, and I find his justification for thinking this pathetically flimsy. Do YOU think Apple is "robbing people blind"? Why do you think such nonsense?


By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 10:05:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Do YOU think Apple is "robbing people blind"? Why do you think such nonsense?


All depends how you look at it. If you go based on hardware/software packs, then yes. Apple is "robbing ppl blind." Now, if you are going based on value, this would all become opinionated and there is neither a right, nor wrong answer.


By damianrobertjones on 3/17/2010 4:27:47 AM , Rating: 2
No, they are not robbing people blind. The facts and information are available for anyone to read, check, view.

We choose to pay more for something so it's our choice. Apple provides, we buy and at no point is anyone forced.

Good point


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By Luticus on 3/16/2010 6:05:49 PM , Rating: 2
"Nonsensical fluff...." um what i said was in DIRECT response to what you said in your prior post regarding "Apple detractors". I offered the same amount of "concrete details" you offered me and i'm not going out of my way on a news site form to offer more, there's no point.

quote:
So they claim their platform to be better in some way ...


it wouldn't be a big deal if that's all they did, but instead of just saying "we're better because..." they say "windows sucks because..." which wouldn't bother me at all except that the "because" part are all outright blatant lies that have absolutely no merit what-so-ever.

this is not the kind of behavior the public should be supporting (in my opinion) and i don't care who it comes from. But to be fair to Apple, as of late as far as i know they seem to have shut up about it and more or less dropped this issue which is good for them. Now if they'll just quit suing everyone they're scared of maybe we can make a decent company out of them yet. While i cant say where your from, i and Apple are both american and here we apparently have an "if you can't beat 'em, sue 'em policy" so i guess it's all good.

As for what i care about... i care about having a decent adult discussion about things i'm interested in, technology being one of them. I came to a new site like this one thinking i'd achieve that end... we'll see how it holds up but for now the results aren't so good. ;-)~


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 8:27:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
"Nonsensical fluff...." um what i said was in DIRECT response to what you said in your prior post regarding "Apple detractors".

And completely derailing from the original point, which is that it's silly to state that Apple is "robbing people blind". If you want to assert that Apple is no pantheon to peace and justice and virtue, you'll find no contest from me.

quote:
t wouldn't be a big deal if that's all they did, but instead of just saying "we're better because..." they say "windows sucks because..." which wouldn't bother me at all except that the "because" part are all outright blatant lies that have absolutely no merit what-so-ever.

And that's more of the drama-queen hyperbole that started this mess. "Outright blatant lies" is just as dishonest a representation of Apple's ads as Apple's ads are a representation of the quality of experience on a PC.

quote:
this is not the kind of behavior the public should be supporting

Using people's own experiences to emotionally appeal to them? Do you have some reason to think Apple is more egregious at this practice, other than their apparent success using the tactic?

quote:
i care about having a decent adult discussion

Then you might want to keep track of what you're discussing. Do you think Apple is "robbing people blind"?


By Alexstarfire on 3/16/2010 9:02:23 PM , Rating: 2
You do realize he wasn't the one who said that Apple is "robbing people blind," right?


By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 5:08:38 PM , Rating: 2
I had nothing against apple...

The first time I saw a 'I'm a mac' advert it was at the cinema. Sitting there, before the film, the ad came on and by the end I could not believe what I had just watched. It was designed to literally draw in people via their basic needs.

The mac guy, smooth, confident, friends, cash, while the pc owner looked sad, shabby and lonely.

It actually offended me in a way as I'm an I.T. manager and I work and use these things on a daily basis and in no way do I see myself as sad, lonley or shabby. If apple have a product then LET IT STAND ON IT'S own merrit instead of manipulating their possible customers.

Wrong or right, it does not matter as either way, the adverts worked.


RE: From the negative you get the positive !
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 8:33:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If apple have a product then LET IT STAND ON IT'S own merrit instead of manipulating their possible customers.

That's a nice ideal, but it's a practical impossibility. That's just not the world we live in. 2010 (and even a few years prior) is an age in which ads are everywhere and the audience universally thinks it's jaded and hip. An ad campaign is an absolute necessity to succeed in nigh any business above the local level.

Is it manipulative? Sure. But it's also necessary, because that's just how group psychology works. If you can come up with an actable method to change everybody's psychological and biological makeup, please present it. But until then, slamming a company because of certain inherent aspects of human nature it must take into account is just childish.

To turn your logic around: If you think Apple's products are inferior, present your argument against the product ON ITS OWN MERITS instead of focusing on how Apple manipulates its potential customers.


By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 10:07:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you think Apple's products are inferior, present your argument against the product ON ITS OWN MERITS instead of focusing on how Apple manipulates its potential customers.


Didn't MS make some commercials on that? Like how their laptops did the exact same things, but ended up being cheaper.

Course this led to some butt hurt Mac fans.


By someguy123 on 3/16/2010 11:26:52 PM , Rating: 2
Actually the method of manipulating people into developing a consumerist lifestyle is a fairly recent (last century) development. Before, businesses (note the bold) would advertise based on practicality, rather than associating products with lifestyles you desired or people you wanted to be.

It is a necessary evil for advertising due to past conditioning, but that doesn't justify it (especially not mudslinging), and it doesn't mean that the product itself needs to suffer because of it (or cost a ridiculous premium).

Apples products are currently inferior because of:
last cycle hardware
price
limited to no upgradability

Apple used to have a better looking and performing interface until win 7 aero. Now, there really is no reason to buy apple unless you're afraid the user will get viruses on a PC or you must have the white glossy coating.


By someguy123 on 3/16/2010 7:31:11 PM , Rating: 2
That is not capitalism, that's consumerism. In a truly capitalist society the innovative and best quality reign supreme, not the best advertiser, but a truly capitalist society will never exist because exploitation is just too easy and cost effective compared to actually competing via product.

I am only a PC fan because it is the lesser of two evils.


What Else is New ?
By Reclaimer77 on 3/16/2010 10:05:21 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
The problem is particularly severe in the MacBook Pro series, whose hardware currently trails even drastically cheaper models from competitors like ASUSTek.


Hasn't this been the case for every Apple for as long as we can remember ? When has Apple EVER delivered a product on the cutting edge of performance for any price ?




RE: What Else is New ?
By SavagePotato on 3/16/2010 10:20:42 AM , Rating: 2
The new Asus N43/N63/N73 line looks beautiful, and will be specced so much better than comparative Apple products. If I was in the market for a notebook Asus is where I would be looking.

Their UL series ultraporables are very nice too. Considering they are like 7-800 dollars the UL50 is a very tempting little unit that looks better than anything Apple makes to me, and would make a good slightly beefed up netbook replacement.


RE: What Else is New ?
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: What Else is New ?
By Reclaimer77 on 3/16/2010 12:43:14 PM , Rating: 1
Ok against my better judgment Pirks, because you didn't insult or flame, I'll answer your question.

Computers ARE performance electronics. Every decade, every year, they have gotten faster, more efficient, more stable, more reliable, more storage, AND most importantly cheaper.


RE: What Else is New ?
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 12:52:46 PM , Rating: 2
Great, you answered my question. People indeed judge computers by "more efficient, more stable, more reliable" (your metrics from above) and more comfortable too.

Hence Apple doesn't have to concentrate solely on the performance metric. If you want performance go Alienware. I'm not saying performance is good or bad, I'm just saying Apple serves different market, that's all.


RE: What Else is New ?
By just4U on 3/16/2010 1:14:55 PM , Rating: 2
The people I see buying Macs right now are kids convincing their parents to do so. Why? Because it's trendy.. and goes with their Ipod, or Iphone.


RE: What Else is New ?
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 1:58:29 PM , Rating: 2
I'm really curious: Why do you care? Why so much pathos that people aren't minimizing their expenditure and maximizing their theoretical performance that they'll never need or use? In a world where a $20 processor will do everything most users need it to, how does it affect you in the slightest if people are dropping money on something much more expensive?


RE: What Else is New ?
By Luticus on 3/16/2010 2:52:37 PM , Rating: 2
Well one idea could be that it's because if to many people start too push their idiot button and purchase something inferior (in my opinion) and yet more expensive because it's marketed as "trendy" and backed up by out right lies then they might actually grab significant market share thus forcing developers to give them a second look. right now i enjoy a vast market with literally thousands upon thousands of software products to choose from. if Apple gains to much because stupid people who listen to their "trendy" kids come along, then we might see more "Mac exclusive" software (a day I dread.)

Granted this is a far fetched extreme hypothetical situation offered only to see what people would say about it, and I'm aware it's probably never going to be a reality or a real concern, but it is definitely food for thought :) or at least in my opinion.

And to all those I've seen using the line "you don't buy cars based on speed so speed/performance isn't as important I call BS. Why? Because computers don't have speed limits... cars do. Doesn't matter if you're car can hit 210mph when the speed limit is 65mph.


RE: What Else is New ?
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 3:24:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because computers don't have speed limits
Right, people DO CARE about characters being printed on their screen much less than 238 microseconds after a key press. Say if it's Mac than maybe characters will get printed on screen only after 260 microseconds after a key press or so, HOW CAN WE TOLERATE THIS BLASPHEMY!! Ohhhh!!! :)))


RE: What Else is New ?
By Luticus on 3/16/2010 3:34:43 PM , Rating: 2
Computers are "multi-functional" devices that do a lot more than print characters on the screen. What about multi-tasking, games, vitalization, hd movie viewing, development, CAD, CGI, and many other tasks. We are past the days of the terminal based PC. Speed/performance/function will ALWAYS be more important than aesthetics. This isn't to say that Mac's don't perform well or that they can't handle these tasks, or even that everyone would need these things from their PC; however, what I'm saying is that the computer that does more is clearly superior any way you look at it. If yours is prettier but slower and that's what you want then that's great, but that doesn't make it better than something that isn't so pretty but out performs it. Computers are designed to help people multi-task and do what they can't do on their own. Why wouldn't you want it to be all it can be and do more?


RE: What Else is New ?
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 4:04:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the computer that does more is clearly superior any way you look at it
Only if computer's user actually wants and uses ALL of its features and software. When you look at most computer users these days you realize that they are very far from using ALL the features and ALL the software available. Hence you can easily cut some of this unnecessary features while introducing other features that present solid value to these users. For example you can cut a few thousand Windows only programs these people don't need and replace it with OS X plus much longer battery life, nicer case, keyboard, touchpad etc etc.

What do we have now? We have a computer that can only do 100000 apps instead of 1000000 but it has much longer battery life and is lighter, thinner, has all metal case and higher build quality. Why would ALL users prefer missing 900000 apps? Some of them (techies) do but most don't, they are a-ok with only 100000 apps available because this choice range is more than enough for them, and they also grab those nice things like battery efficiency/capacity, case, size, backlit keyboard, multitouch, etc etc. Hence the Mac market share growth, even tho Macs are not the ultimate performance champions like PCs, and they don't have gazillion of apps available for PCs.


RE: What Else is New ?
By Luticus on 3/16/2010 4:26:37 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not trying to devalue features like back-lit keyboards, multi-touch, and battery life. My own desktop PC has a very nice back lit keyboard so i can definitely understand the appeal of such features, and as i said in the post above i agree that some people don't want/need every feature that comes in a PC sometimes. I even stated that Mac's are quite capable of the functions that i mentioned in my post minus gaming to some extent. I even get your point that some people would place more value on little neat-o features like a back-lit keyboard, especially on a laptop. Despite all this, though, to say that they are sacrificing performance to add in these features is technically incorrect because while they aren't putting out the most performance they can, they are also driving up the cost of the computer although it may be absorbed a bit by their screens, which are nice. I am simply of the opinion that what Apple offers simply isn't worth the cost and I DESPISE their closed platform model and unethical advertising. I just hope that people realize that for some Mac may be a great alternative and it's certainly not something that is "god awful", it is, however, a far cry from superior, and has a long, LONG way to go before it ever becomes a viable alternative to Windows as the dominate operating system.


RE: What Else is New ?
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 5:03:03 PM , Rating: 2
Well said.

I have a collegue who owns a mac laptop as it offered him a high res screen and slim build, but runs WIndows 7 as OSX doesn't 'offer' anything more and he states 'less' than Windows.


RE: What Else is New ?
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 5:11:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
to say that they are sacrificing performance to add in these features is technically incorrect
I never said they sacrifice performance for that. I said that they sacrifice choice between 1000000 of Windows apps by putting OS X on their machines. See the difference?
quote:
they aren't putting out the most performance they can
Any proof of that? Anything at all? 'Cause it sounds like wishful thinking.
quote:
what Apple offers simply isn't worth the cost
I'm not against your opinion, but a lot of people would definitely disagree with you and explain why they prefer those neat-o Applish/polish features to any performance or other benchmark bragging rights.


RE: What Else is New ?
By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 10:21:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Any proof of that? Anything at all? 'Cause it sounds like wishful thinking.


Umm...isn't this exactly what the whole article is about? The dated, slower performing hardware on a Mac, that is still selling well.


RE: What Else is New ?
By Pirks on 3/17/2010 9:52:00 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The dated, slower performing hardware on a Mac, that is still selling well
I thought about software being not fast enough, not hardware. Switching to i7 will bring very moderate speedups in real life but maybe high benches. Mac users mostly don't care about high benches, so they're never in a rush to jump onto a latest Intel fad. I told you already that Apple targets people who do not consider performance the only and the ultimate factor defining computers, hence they never in a hurry to provide fastest available hardware. Ultra-performance machines are sold by Alienware and the likes.


RE: What Else is New ?
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 5:00:44 PM , Rating: 2
I wouldn't say that Apple has higher build quality, especially after the recent stories.

Also, More and more machines from other manufacturers are bow shipping with better battery life and/or additional batteries.

My Fujitsu t4215 with it's second drive bay battery, tested, lasted 14 hours and still had juice left. My HP Tc4200 also lasted 9 hours with it's extended battery. There are options on both sides and PC battery life can only get better as apple has shown the way


RE: What Else is New ?
By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 10:22:25 PM , Rating: 2
Apple has shown us non-user replaceable batteries.


RE: What Else is New ?
By damianrobertjones on 3/17/2010 4:20:20 AM , Rating: 2
RE: What Else is New ?
By Alexstarfire on 3/16/2010 11:48:49 PM , Rating: 2
Wouldn't that apply to the iPhone as well? My phone has longer battery life that the iPhone could ever dream of. Only two things missing are touchscreen and app store. Touchscreen isn't a big deal, though a larger screen would be better for playing videos, but I have a laptop I usually have on me for that purpose. I don't usually need to watch videos on either though. I don't wait around that much.

App store... meh. Interesting, but I'd rather have a complete web browser. Not one that says it's complete but has features missing like flash. That said, more or less the same boat as the videos. Don't use it that much as I'm hardly waiting around all the time.

I do on the other hand have better battery life, FM tuner, bluetooth transfer, memory card slot, better camera, and probably several others I can't think of.

It's funny how you switch between desktops and laptops based on whatever makes Apple look better. You keep changing the argument much like my post did.


RE: What Else is New ?
By Alexstarfire on 3/16/2010 10:16:47 PM , Rating: 2
Come on Pirks, even you don't believe the crap you're spouting in here. It really does make a difference when converting video files, picture editing (depending upon level of editing of course), and many other CPU intensive applications I'd much rather have a faster computer. Cuts down the time I spend doing those things significantly.


RE: What Else is New ?
By Pirks on 3/17/2010 9:55:57 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
t really does make a difference when converting video files, picture editing (depending upon level of editing of course), and many other CPU intensive applications
When you need real speed you use desktop.


RE: What Else is New ?
By Alexstarfire on 3/17/2010 4:04:38 PM , Rating: 2
Which what I was talking about. You were very vague on what you were talking abut, so I took it as all Macs vs all PCs, not just laptops. I don't do anything of that on my laptop which is why my $300 laptop is such a dream machine. It's inexpensive and does everything I could want to on the go.


RE: What Else is New ?
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 4:49:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Well one idea could be that it's because if to many people start too push their idiot button and purchase something inferior (in my opinion) and yet more expensive because it's marketed as "trendy" and backed up by out right lies then they might actually grab significant market share thus forcing developers to give them a second look.

And the only way they could grab significant market share is if their prices dropped, and then the primary complaint about Apple would evaporate.

Their business model is the antithesis of trying to gain market share. If they wanted more share, they could use half their cash reserves to start selling Macbook pros for $700 at no profit... and sextuple their market share in a year. But that's not their strategy.


RE: What Else is New ?
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 5:04:12 PM , Rating: 2
It would also de-value their product and the masses currently see 'bling' as better.

Sad, but true :(


RE: What Else is New ?
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 8:48:41 PM , Rating: 2
Apple would hardly be the first company to recognize that artificial exclusivity can lead to higher demand.


RE: What Else is New ?
By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 10:23:12 PM , Rating: 2
Ya, look at Ferrari.


RE: What Else is New ?
By just4U on 3/17/2010 2:42:41 AM , Rating: 2
Spoofe was that question directed at me? If it was .. I don't really care. I was just stating what I've observed and who is fueling the demand for those computers.

For me, the only time I really do care is when someone comes asking for my personal advice. When that happens I don't recommend a mac. Why would I? There are better computers out there at cheaper prices. It's a fact worth noting. That's all.


RE: What Else is New ?
By SavagePotato on 3/16/2010 1:50:24 PM , Rating: 4
You waste your time anytime you reply to pirks or reader1, who quite likely is just an alt account of pirks.

He's either a troll, or the most smug know it all wannabe the world has seen. In either case lowering yourself to even address him directly is a waste of your time as well of that of everyone else. Since any attempts to use logic or common sense on him just lead to him running in circles till he inevitably gets into personal attacks.

Nothing that comes out of his mouth, or keyboard as it were is of any more value than dirt.


RE: What Else is New ?
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: What Else is New ?
By Penti on 3/16/2010 4:48:28 PM , Rating: 2
Lol at Pirks, Yeah they released Nehalem workstations first. The dual processor one is still competitive against for example HP workstations.


RE: What Else is New ?
By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 10:11:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Hasn't this been the case for every Apple for as long as we can remember ? When has Apple EVER delivered a product on the cutting edge of performance for any price ?


Usually when they first do a big rehash. Like when the Mac Pro first got Xeon procs. They were the latest and greatest Xeon procs and even the PC OEMs didn't have them yet.


RE: What Else is New ?
By Alexstarfire on 3/16/2010 11:50:49 PM , Rating: 2
I think that's only held true for the Mac Pros. Could be wrong though.


RE: What Else is New ?
By afkrotch on 3/17/2010 12:44:26 AM , Rating: 2
Ya, I can't think of much else. I don't remember what the Macbooks got when they first went Intel.


Yay
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 10:03:32 AM , Rating: 5
It's called marketing and the 'moment' apple ran the 'I'm a mac' adverts, they captured the thoughts of all the youngsters 'and' the people that are sick and tired of Windows and it's problems.

Now, those Windows problems are caused by the very people that complain about them. We've ALL visited and fixed pcs over the years and most, if not all, have been infected by wares, pron and illegal music sites. Does the person get the blame for being so stupid as to click everything or does Microsoft?

Now we have a new army of people that are so convinced that apple is 'better' and those same said people, will also cause many, many problems for apple in the long run.

I have nothing against apple apart from their deceptive marketing but whenever people say 'mac is better', I want to laugh myself stupid at that ignorance. Same hardware, same problems, more ignorance.

At the end of the day, we buy what we buy and that's all. There's a world out there of beauty and great sadness so mac or no mac, none of it 'really' matters as long as you can write a letter, empty the trash can with ease and damn well use the machine.




RE: Yay
By SavagePotato on 3/16/2010 10:16:34 AM , Rating: 2
Be careful what you wish for, If you are Apple that is.

With greater recognition from the consumer comes greater recognition from the underground that makes all that malware. It has been not only said but proven that OSX is less secure than Windows 7. Apple is on a collision course with reality the further their customer base grows. Already more and more of that is being seen despite the fact that they are still tiny.

A user base of well funded and completely clueless users with an iGod-complex about the falsely touted security of their platform can and will be a boon to the phishers, scammers and malware authors.

The problem comes when Apples traditional approach is to deny there is a problem and not bother to fix it.


RE: Yay
By Pirks on 3/16/10, Rating: -1
RE: Yay
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 5:23:09 PM , Rating: 1
I understand that a mac owner actually 'asked' for instuctions to find said software the other day.....


RE: Yay
By Pirks on 3/16/2010 6:03:35 PM , Rating: 2
It's hidden somewhere in Safari or around that, don't bother since it's does almost nothing, just checks for the only Mac malware thing seen in the wild or something. Just a simple string comparison against downloaded content AFAIR.


RE: Yay
By Alexstarfire on 3/16/2010 11:55:20 PM , Rating: 1
Did you reply to the wrong post, because what you said had nothing to do with responding to the OP. Two completely different things. Save for your very first "sentence," which is actually a run-on/comma splice, but still.


RE: Yay
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 2:29:57 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Now, those Windows problems are caused by the very people that complain about them.

Really? All of them? There haven't been any security flaws, hardware glitches, or just all around flaws with Windows? To be sure a huge amount of users cause their own problems, but how does that not stand as a benefit to those users to buy a product that minimizes the impact of their own problems?

One most certainly can run a Windows machine and never be infected by malware or viruses, but the simple fact of the matter is that there's always going to be a much larger number of Windows machines out there, getting hijacked and spewing out more viruses for other Windows machines. Not being a part of that certainly has a value, even if it can't be expressed with benchmarks, frames per second, or rendering times.


RE: Yay
By Luticus on 3/16/2010 3:03:14 PM , Rating: 4
So you're suggesting the use of a closed platform, that is marketed as idiot proof, backed by lies, technically inferior and more expensive to avoid viruses????

In the words of Ben: He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.


RE: Yay
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 4:57:00 PM , Rating: 2
I don't recall suggesting the use of anything. Where did you get that from?


RE: Yay
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 5:11:24 PM , Rating: 2
Please, could you please stop taking people's comments as literal and read between the lines. I've noticed your replies throughout this thread and you're not being fair.

It's 'obvious' that not ALL problems are caused by the user but as someone that looks after these things on a daily basis, it's a very high percentage.


RE: Yay
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 8:56:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Please, could you please stop taking people's comments as literal and read between the lines. I've noticed your replies throughout this thread and you're not being fair.

G'huh? So now I'm supposed to assume people don't mean what they say, and then invent a whole new meaning to replace it? Nonsense.

He said that people cause their own problems. My response didn't exclude the possibility that he was being a little rhetorical. See the second paragraph.

If people have problems on one platform - whether caused by their own or not - but DON'T have those problems on another platform, it is a perfectly valid reason to switch platforms. Is it admirable that people choose to protect themselves from themselves buy switching to Apple rather than educate themselves on how to avoid causing their own problems on a PC? Of course not, I never said it is. But that's how people are, and Apple uses that fact to their advantage. They'd be utterly stupid not to.


RE: Yay
By Alexstarfire on 3/16/2010 11:58:08 PM , Rating: 2
You must be very bad with the ladies if you assume what they say is what they mean all the time. Only problem with the internet and typing is that you can't get tones across very well.


P.T. Barnum was right
By inperfectdarkness on 3/16/2010 9:54:13 AM , Rating: 5
...there's a sucker born every minute




RE: P.T. Barnum was right
By chmilz on 3/16/2010 10:12:32 AM , Rating: 5
Yup. Headline should read "Thanks To Aging Lineup, Apple Proves Abundance Of Morons"

Apple needs a Toyota scandal to bring into focus how truly mediocre their products actually are.


RE: P.T. Barnum was right
By SavagePotato on 3/16/2010 11:55:46 AM , Rating: 5
They have them, exploding iPods, yellowing screens, they get swept under the rug by Apples reality distortion and denial mastery.


RE: P.T. Barnum was right
By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 10:32:40 PM , Rating: 2
The benefit though, is the $ value of an old Mac stays high, due to less upgrading of Mac lineup.

A 2 year old Mac can still be sold near the cost of a brand new Mac, as they are the exact same machines with same specs.


Oh DailyTech!
By AMDJunkie on 3/16/2010 1:27:03 PM , Rating: 2
First the commentariat complains that a free-market economy is under tyranny of government intervention, which is unnecesary because the economy is full of rational agents acting in their own self-interest.

Then they bemoan Apple's atypical success in this recession by calling the consumers who buy them irrational (that's putting it politely) and harming themselves; not to mention act as if someone needs to intervene to stop the madness.

Good thing I can still access comedy sites at work!




RE: Oh DailyTech!
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 2:07:46 PM , Rating: 1
Some people just can't stand that their priorities are not the same as everyone else's. I can dig wanting to get the most bang for your buck (I have no Apple products, for instance, and I paid $380 for my laptop brand-new... it's done everything I've needed it to do, and have no desire for something better).

But I've personally seen five, six, seven year old Macs still functioning great, regularly; the Windows machines that accomplish this have been much rarer. It could simply be a matter of people taking better care of a product they spent more money on, but regardless, Apple managed to build the perception in enough people that their products are worth the cash, as is their right. And frankly, as a staunch capitalist, I support any apparently successful business model.


RE: Oh DailyTech!
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 5:26:01 PM , Rating: 2
Over 50 machines where I work are nearing their 6 year old birthday, with the rest a lot newer (core 23 etc). A whole lot of Dell machines, 35 to be exact, failed after three years or so due to the odd design and cooling.

I'd say that we've had a great run out of all of our boxes.


RE: Oh DailyTech!
By SPOOFE on 3/16/2010 9:01:36 PM , Rating: 2
The keywords in your post being "where I work". Machines that are critical to the generation of income will always experience much better care. I admit that I deliberately avoid tossing in workstations or servers, because I have no useful experience and so I have no idea.

Just to be clear: My reference to my experience is pretty much exclusively personal users and their private machines.


RE: Oh DailyTech!
By afkrotch on 3/16/2010 10:42:43 PM , Rating: 2
I actually see the reverse at work. Regular desktops are bottom of the barrel. Usually worse off, than someone's personal PC at home.

They're left on the ground, only maintenanced when there's a problem, and the user tends to beat them up. Like...literally beat them up. Kicking or punching them. Cause for the regular desktops, companies will go extremely cheap on them, to save on cash. Even though buying that extra stick of memory, will cause the machine to run faster, increasing productivity.

Workstations receive a lot more care, but there's still the tendencies of users beating them up, but they receive some kind of reprimand, as the support sees the machines on a routine basis. There are times when companies will purchase a workstation for regular desktop use. Kind of a stupid move, but it happens.

Servers are out of the users' hands and only the admins are in control. They pretty much survive forever, so long as replacement parts are available.


Tom Cruise
By XZerg on 3/16/2010 10:47:45 AM , Rating: 2
Why does Steve Jobs looks so eerily like Tom Cruise? The coincidental part on top is that the entertainment world finds Tom a bit whacked and similarly Steve in the computer world. But both of them in their own industries have die-hard fans that are willing to follow as these two suggest.




RE: Tom Cruise
By The0ne on 3/16/2010 11:53:14 AM , Rating: 3
I personally don't watch any movies with Tom or Gibson in them. Use to enjoy the guys but lately their actions are creepy and terrible :D


RE: Tom Cruise
By SavagePotato on 3/16/2010 11:57:28 AM , Rating: 3
Religion has a tendency to do that to people.


I want Apple to do well..
By StraightCashHomey on 3/16/2010 10:31:49 AM , Rating: 5
..but not too well. As long as Apple is threatening to take marketshare from MS, the innovations and competition should benefit us all.

My line of work is based completely around Microsoft software, so hopefully MS is here to stay for the next 40 years - at least in the business sector.




RE: I want Apple to do well..
By daveinternets on 3/16/2010 11:56:44 AM , Rating: 2
This is exactly right.

I love Windows 7 and I feel I have Apple to (partially) thank for that. Without them gaining market share, MS has no real motivation to make a better product.

With that in mind, I can't wait for Windows Phone 7 Series!


Build a mediocre product and sell it well
By laok on 3/16/2010 12:18:14 PM , Rating: 2
That's called a good business.




By Pirks on 3/16/2010 4:52:56 PM , Rating: 2
ya I agree with you MS is doing very good business selling mediocre Windows :P


Misleading quote
By amanojaku on 3/16/2010 10:07:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
He personally predicts Mac sales to rise over 35 percent on a year to year basis.
"Year over year" is used in organizations to project sales over 3-5 year cycles, and sometimes beyond, using several stable years' worth of data points. The author is using the low sales figures of two recession years to analyze two months of this year's completed sales. That's not the proper use of "year over year", and he isn't predicting anything, either. He's skewing the results, and you also forget to mention the price drops that lead to the increase in sales.

Apple is just as desperate for sales as the next guy. It just has higher prices for the same hardware, so it makes more money per unit.




Sort of right
By djc208 on 3/16/2010 11:57:36 AM , Rating: 2
Of course sales are going to increase, there's all those defective 27" iMacs to replace.

Why buy one good machine when you can buy a mediocre one over and over again.




By someguy123 on 3/16/2010 2:15:05 PM , Rating: 2
From Mick's standpoint, having bought shares in apple months ago.




Wow...
By damianrobertjones on 3/16/2010 7:44:31 PM , Rating: 2
Other than EnGadget, I've never read so many offensive posts in my life.. It's madness. So much bickering and 'picking' at posts when the person picking 'knows' very well what the person means.

At the end of the day, NONE of the posts, including mine, mean a damn thing. We still get up, go to work, do what we do and come home. Some of us have children and some don't but either way, maybe some of us need to stop and think before posting.

As long as we can get the task done, ANY tech is a good choice and if tech's not required, all the better. There's so much beauty out there in the world and again, none of this matters when it get's out of hand and degenerates into silly, silly arguments

This place could be far, far better, with friendly debate instead of, frankly, childish banter.




"My sex life is pretty good" -- Steve Jobs' random musings during the 2010 D8 conference











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