DailyTech - Democrats Propose National Internet Sales Tax Policy, ACLU Fights Back

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Internet Democrats Propose National Internet Sales Tax Policy, ACLU Fights Back
Jason Mick (Blog) - July 5, 2010 9:58 AM

183 comment(s) - last by thurston.. on Jul 8 at 8:53 PM

Democrats in Congress are hoping to push through a measure that would allow states to collect over $23B USD extra annually from citizens. The measure would allow states to tax currently untaxed online sales. (Source: The BS Report)

Proponents say measure would pull in $23B USD extra in taxes from citizens

Enjoy your tax-free internet purchases from sites like Amazon.com while you can. If Democrats in Congress get their way, an internet sales tax provision -- similar to those adopted by a handful of states, like North Carolina and New York -- will soon become law.

Rep. Bill Delahunt (D-Mass.) introduced a new bill, the "Main Street Fairness Act", co-sponsored by Reps. Michael Capuano (D-MA), John Conyers (D-MI), Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (D-SD), and Peter Welch (D-VT), all Democrats. Not a single Republican has been willing to sign on as a bill sponsor.

The exact text of the bill at this point is unknown as it's been submitted to the Library of Congress from the Government Printing Office, and may take a day or two to be transferred into the electronic system. You can check here to find the text once it is posted.

It's thought that the bill would dissolve the so-called "nexus" protections, which allow for companies without significant presence in a state to avoid paying sales tax on orders from there. That concept was defined by the case Quill v. North Dakota, which concluded, "Congress is now free to decide whether, when, and to what extent the States may burden interstate mail order concerns with a duty to collect use taxes."

Cash strapped states are cheering the measure. They say it could rake in as much as $23B USD extra tax revenue from citizens yearly. The National Conference of State Legislatures has endorsed the measure.

Frustrated by being outmaneuvered by primarily online competitors, brick and mortar retailers also heartily support the measure. The Retail Industry Leaders Association, whose members include Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Costco, AutoZone, Target, and IKEA, applauded the move.

In related news, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has joined the fight against North Carolina's plan to tax online purchases. The group filed a complaint attached to Amazon.com's lawsuit against the N.C. Department of Revenue.

The fight is stemming from Amazon.com's refusal to turn over customer information that could lead to collection from and possible prosecution of citizens who failed to report their online purchases. The ACLU says the demand for information violates citizens' guarantees of "free speech, anonymity and privacy".

Katy Parker, legal director for the ACLU of North Carolina Legal Foundation, comments, "The ACLU is not taking issue with the department’s authority to collect taxes on these purchases, but there is no legitimate reason why government officials need to know which North Carolina residents are reading which books or purchasing which specific brands of products. We had hoped the department would narrow the scope of its requests in order to protect privacy rights, and we are surprised and disappointed that it has become necessary for us to take legal action in order to safeguard consumers’ rights."

Amazon's suit began in April with a filing in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Washington against the N.C. Department of Revenue. The outcome is significant as if the ACLU, Amazon.com, and others can successfully fight having to turn over sales records, any national level internet sales tax revision could be made, in essence, impotent.

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Tax is the only dem solution

By JimboK29 on 7/5/2010 10:08:46 AM , Rating: 5

I am not surprised. Taxing is the only democrat solution.

RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By JasonMick

(blog) on 7/5/2010 10:21:20 AM , Rating: 3

To give both political parties credit where credit is due, while the measures have been largely supported by Democrats, there are a fair number of Republicans on board as well.

Among this bill's most prominent supporters in the Senate was GOP Sen. Mike Enzi (R-WY).

Like many recent issues (piracy, etc), the two parties are growing closer together, if anything.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By JimboK29 on 7/5/2010 10:35:33 AM , Rating: 4

But why does the govt have to put their hand into internet sales? In my honest opinion, I personally feel Americans are taxed enough. I think most would agree with this.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Camikazi on 7/5/2010 10:51:39 AM , Rating: 5

Cause they see money to be made, no other reason needed.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By quiksilvr on 7/5/2010 12:29:36 PM , Rating: 2

True, but that's not the reason.

They feel for the sake of the "economy", mom and pop shops are being phased out by convenient online sales and feel that for the sake of the "economy", online sales need to be taxed in order to be "fair" and make the prices more similar to be "realistic".

(Note, replace quoted words with "lobbyists")

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Taft12 on 7/5/2010 1:22:03 PM , Rating: 5

Online retailers can be mom & pop as well....

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Ammohunt on 7/6/2010 2:16:10 PM , Rating: 3

herein lies the difference between what they(the current Governemnt) wants; a Socialist economy vs what we need an unhindered free market. If stores can't compete with an online presence they go out of business sorry about that you should have been a better business person!

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSojar on 7/5/10, Rating: -1

By LordSojar on 7/5/2010 10:52:53 AM , Rating: -1

quote:
I personally feel Americans are taxed enough. I think most would agree with this.

^ LOL. We are taxed very lightly compared to most other developed nations. Consider yourself lucky to live in a country where we don't see the real cost of very much. Try living in Europe for a year, and get back with me.

After you grow tired of paying 5-6x the gas cost, 2-3x the food cost, and having 50% or more of your paycheck taken by the government, say America has too many taxes. Oh, but make sure to complain about their free education (including university) and free healthcare (and we aren't talking about the terrible Canadian system, we are talking about the amazing German system, etc)

You, like most Americans, are uninformed of the world around you. The whole "woe is me" attitude is getting so old. Americans have it made in the shade when it comes to prices and taxes, thanks to subsidies and the US government spending itself into deficit oblivion. Quit complaining.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 11:07:28 AM , Rating: 5

quote:
Try living in Europe for a year, and get back with me.

If I wanted to live in Europe, I would. I think more people should instead of trying to turn America INTO Europe.

We don't care what other "developed nations" are doing. Other nations are shit, that's why our grandparents are their parents moved HERE.

Your arguments are retarded and illogical. "Stop complaining about taxes because other nations pay more taxes even though if we don't complain we'll soon be paying those same taxes" Hello?? Think about it.

quote:
You, like most Americans, are uninformed of the world around you.

No, we're very informed. We just know we don't want to BE like the rest of the world. You so go live in Europe? I say go live in Spain or Greece. Now why would we want to emulate that?

In closing, this is an AMERICAN issue. This is about our government proposing a tax that will affect US, not you. So take your European snotty preachy attitude and shut the hell up. How dare you try to silence an American, who WILL be effected by this, from giving his opinion?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSojar on 7/5/10, Rating: -1

By LordSojar on 7/5/2010 11:20:11 AM , Rating: -1

quote:
In closing, this is an AMERICAN issue. This is about our government proposing a tax that will affect US, not you. So take your European snotty preachy attitude and shut the hell up. How dare you try to silence an American, who WILL be effected by this, from giving his opinion?

I live in Indiana, fool. How typical, making grand assumptions about another person because of their views. Am I unamerican now? Am I less American than you, because my views differ from yours? We call that bigotry, sir.

The issue in the United States isn't the tax rate, it's the use of the tax dollars. If taxes are higher, but you have access to 2 of the most expensive services for free (ie. health care and education), you no longer need to spend said excess income on those 2 commodities. Ergo... you have more money to spend in the end! This is a logical cycle that most Americans fail to understand, due mostly in part to the talking heads on both liberal and conservative news and radio networks who shall not be mentioned here.

Instead of listening to the talking heads on TV who tell you what you want to hear, try learning about economic metrics for yourself, understanding the Spain and Greece issues with your own logic, and taking your head out of your ass. Americans are the most bigoted people on the planet when it comes to new ideas and concepts. Our education system is proof enough of that.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By chrnochime on 7/5/2010 11:34:17 AM , Rating: 4

You yourself say that the issue is with the use of tax dollars. Yet in the very next sentence, you claim that higher tax rate will grant you access to two of the most expensive services for free. So when that tax is increased, all of a sudden the gov't gets their sh!t together and manages to not spend them on things that you deem unnecessary, e.g. something else beside healthcare/ed?
Pray tell why that would happen now when it didn't happen before the last time a new tax was slapped on the US people?

BTW I'm not an American so I'm neither not Rep. or Dem./Lib, so any comment about me being a rep fanboy aint going to fly LOL

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By chrnochime on 7/5/2010 11:35:30 AM , Rating: 1

I'm neither Rep. nor Dem./Lib supporter. There.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 11:48:01 AM , Rating: 5

quote:
The issue in the United States isn't the tax rate, it's the use of the tax dollars. If taxes are higher, but you have access to 2 of the most expensive services for free (ie. health care and education), you no longer need to spend said excess income on those 2 commodities.

Ok moron. I don't have health care expenses, and I'm all done with my education. I also have no children. SO how are those the "most expensive" services? They aren't. They might be for someone else.

So what you're saying is we should all pay for everyone elses expenses. Hello socialism?

quote:
Americans are the most bigoted people on the planet when it comes to new ideas and concepts.

By "new" you mean Progressive ideas, and you're damned right we are against them. We DON'T want to live in Europe! Get that into your head.

quote:
Our education system is proof enough of that.

You mean the failure that is STATE RUN Socialized public schooling? Wow, you finally said something I agree with.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSojar on 7/5/10, Rating: -1

By LordSojar on 7/5/2010 12:23:09 PM , Rating: -1

quote:
You mean the failure that is STATE RUN Socialized public schooling? Wow, you finally said something I agree with.

Socialized schooling? Another American who doesn't understand the meaning of the world "socialism". If you understood the true nature of socialism, you'd be in favor of it (that is unless you are one of the ultra elite here in America). People should be rewarded for the work they put into society, not for screwing it over.

Socialism is the only way that modern society will function. Capitalism's inherent flaw is greed, as is communism's. Socialism is a happy medium between the two, and if you had any remote understanding of what it really was, you might tend to agree. I'd recommend higher education, but, you'd likely think I was referring to Beck University....

You can go ahead and down rate me too, that simply shows ignorance, which is oh so bliss. Instead of embracing new ideas and focusing on the development of humanity, we focus only on our own self serving agendas. The fact is, we are human beings first, Americans second. The bigotry will be the downfall of the "mighty" USA as we know it.

In order to end war and hunger and disease, humans need to work in concert with each other; humanity is force to reckoned with when brought together under a common banner. You will see that someday, whether by choice or by natural force. When faced with destruction, it will become clear how petty all this is. Let's see how what money and capital mean after we nuke each other to kingdom come.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 12:30:35 PM , Rating: 5

Meah...Marxist. No point in even debating with you.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSojar on 7/5/10, Rating: -1

RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 4:32:34 PM , Rating: 2

"Reagan would be considered a liberal by the metric of what makes a person a "conservative" these days... Holy shit."

Stunning idiocy from an "educated person". What poophole did you crawl out of? Nevermind, I don't want to know.
Arrogant hypocrite.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By C'DaleRider on 7/5/10, Rating: 0

RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 1:00:34 PM , Rating: 3

Name calling? Look at the things he just wrote. I'm describing his belief system, not calling him names. He's a Marxist, plain and simple. And I'll not suffer the like.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By corduroygt on 7/5/2010 3:04:27 PM , Rating: 5

quote:
Capitalism's inherent flaw is greed, as is communism's. Socialism is a happy medium between the two, and if you had any remote understanding of what it really was, you might tend to agree.

Greed is an inherent human character flaw, it can never be fixed, short of re-engineering our DNA or making everything available for everyone for free.

Capitalism is a ruthless system, but it's the most efficient based on the fact that every human being is greedy, which is true.

You need to change the human species, who are still pretty much savage animals, before you can apply a more forgiving system, or find a way to create free and unlimited energy, which solves "limited resources" part of "fulfilling unlimited needs with limited resources" problem.

Until then, capitalism is the most efficient system, without question.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 4:45:43 PM , Rating: 3

"Greed is an inherent human character flaw, it can never be fixed"

Excellent post.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 4:49:18 PM , Rating: 3

"ignorance, which is oh so bliss"

If ignorance is bliss, you must be skinny dipping in Obamas cup of hope.
Again, you are a hypocrite.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Cerin218 on 7/6/2010 1:25:13 PM , Rating: 3

...Mises' 1944 book Bureaucracy. Mises wrote, "[T]he educated strata are more gullible than the less educated. The most enthusiastic supporters of Marxism, Nazism, and Fascism were the intellectuals, not the boors."

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Cerin218 on 7/6/2010 1:26:24 PM , Rating: 3

The champions of socialism call themselves progressives, but they recommend a system which is characterized by rigid observance of routine and by a resistance to every kind of improvement. They call themselves liberals, but they are intent upon abolishing liberty. They call themselves democrats, but they yearn for dictatorship. They call themselves revolutionaries, but they want to make the government omnipotent. They promise the blessings of the Garden of Eden, but they plan to transform the world into a gigantic post office. -Ludwig Von Mises

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By F4iHorn on 7/6/2010 2:41:26 PM , Rating: 1

quote:
People should be rewarded for the work they put into society

They are, it's called money.

quote:
Instead of embracing new ideas

Since when is socialism a new idea? Maybe a hundred years ago it was new.

quote:
focusing on the development of humanity

Where exactly are you going to find these saintly people that will focus on the development of humanity after you place them in Congress and give them power, money, and influence?

And why does this always have to be at the federal level? You can still have your precious socialism in your own state. That way, when it doesn't work, the other 49 don't have to go down with you. It could be like an experiment. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. I think it should be called Federalism.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By danobrega on 7/5/2010 12:47:49 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
I don't have health care expenses

Don't worry, you'll get that fixed in no time. And good luck when it happens. I hope you are not counting on your fellow citizens solidarity, everyone will just hope you drop dead.

Moron, jackass, kid, (insert random insults here), grow up.

Hugs and kisses.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By YashBudini on 7/5/2010 3:26:40 PM , Rating: 1

"Ok moron. I don't have health care expenses, and I'm all done with my education. I also have no children. SO how are those the "most expensive" services? They aren't. They might be for someone else."

See that's your personally limited delusion. If you're surrounded by non-educated people your standard of living will drop with theirs. You can not conceive of interdependence because it's beyond your limited understanding, and it's limited because you chose to make it so.

There's an entire book written about people like you and your stagnant ways of thinking.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-7-Habits-of-H...

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 3:08:52 PM , Rating: 2

" Am I unamerican now? Am I less American than you, because my views differ from yours? We call that bigotry, sir."

Touche sir Pot. How uppity you get when others don't agree with your sad point of view. Hypocrite much "lord"?

"Instead of listening to the talking heads "

And which talking heads do you get your garbage from? Do tell LordHypocrite. Me thinks there is more room up your ass for other than your head. But that's ok as we all know you'll take one for team Obama. GO TEAM!

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By StevoLincolnite on 7/5/2010 12:10:32 PM , Rating: 1

quote:
We don't care what other "developed nations" are doing. Other nations are shit, that's why our grandparents are their parents moved HERE.

Er... The world is allot bigger than the USA, other developed nations are not "shit", you just haven't taken the time to notice them, there is allot more to a country than who is simply leading it.

Every country has something worthy to mention about, and every country has something that isn't worthy to mention about.

quote:
We just know we don't want to BE like the rest of the world.

So you speak for the 200+ Million people in your country? I think not.

quote:
In closing, this is an AMERICAN issue. This is about our government proposing a tax that will affect US, not you. So take your European snotty preachy attitude and shut the hell up.

This is the internet, where we are all connected, even if it's an American issue, if you don't want "Outsiders" placing there own opinions on a blog that can be accessed by BILLIONS of people across the planet... Then perhaps you should bugger off if it bothers you so much? Seriously.

quote:
How dare you try to silence an American, who WILL be effected by this, from giving his opinion?

Hmmm...

quote:
n closing, this is an AMERICAN issue. This is about our government proposing a tax that will affect US, not you. So take your European snotty preachy attitude and shut the hell up.

Oh, the Irony. xD

P.S. - I live in neither of those countries. :)

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 12:21:14 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Every country has something worthy to mention about, and every country has something that isn't worthy to mention about.

Awww, isn't that nice! Did you read that in a pop-up book?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By danobrega on 7/5/2010 12:49:51 PM , Rating: 2

Yeah, the same one you got last Christmas, Moron.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By YashBudini on 7/5/2010 3:37:47 PM , Rating: 1

"Did you read that in a pop-up book? "

And how is the pop-up book any worse than your Faux News rantings?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By StevoLincolnite on 7/5/2010 4:12:44 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Awww, isn't that nice! Did you read that in a pop-up book?

I'm surprised you know what that is considering it's available world wide and you have trouble comprehending anything outside of your own country.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Ammohunt on 7/6/2010 2:27:22 PM , Rating: 2

I know that book! its called "The World Outside America: by Karl Marx"

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By MadMan007 on 7/5/10, Rating: -1

RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By cruisin3style on 7/5/2010 1:08:38 PM , Rating: 2

Yeah....we're on the path to debt problems like those countries. And that's not opinion, it's FACT.

Not as informed as we think, are we...

This bill is an effort to solve shortfalls in state budgets so they don't have to cut services and personnel like teachers and police officers. Not only is the federal government looking at long term debt problems, but the states' situations aren't helping anything.

Don't agree? Go listen to the previous 3 debt commission hearings on c-span and listen to the testimonies of the different economists, professors, and the head of CBO.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Cerin218 on 7/6/2010 1:31:13 PM , Rating: 2

Funny how FDR's economists finally admitted we can't spend ourselves into prosperity. We take far enough money to fund roads and teachers and police. there is also a TON of wasteful spending. Funny how no one ever suggests cutting spending, only where to get more money from. I love how people here are advocating their own screwing.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By chrnochime on 7/5/2010 11:26:58 AM , Rating: 1

Oh yes the Canadian system is so very horrible. But hey I guess you'd prefer being taxed a lot in Germany to get great healthcare than the crappier system in Canada where you get to pay far less, but have the option of going private route.. but you're too knowledgeable to not know right?

Seems like you like Europe a lot. WTH are you still doing in the States anyway?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSojar on 7/5/2010 11:43:30 AM , Rating: 1

Could you guys be any more two faced?

You want a fair system, where everyone has a chance to make their business stake, and either succeed or fail based on consumer spending. That is the nature of capitalism, pure and simple.

So, having an online business is an inherent advantage, as there is no sales tax versus a local store, who might have the same prices, but oh... sales tax. Consumers will spend their money on the product that is less expensive but offers the same (if not identical) quality.

You do see how you are being two faced, yes? You scream bloody murder for a free market, in particular, small and medium business owners, and when the government tries to equalize the playing field for them, you cry foul. Make up your mind. Do you want internet giants like Amazon to thrive, or do you want your local book store to be able to compete directly on principle of price and product quality/availability, without an artificial disadvantage?

Oh, and go ahead, take the other route... suggest we get rid of sales taxes all together. Have fun when your states municipal projects wither away and die off, and then you cry foul that your town/county is the worst place to live. You want and want, but refuse to remember that sales tax is a state tax, not federal. Two faced indeed!

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By carigis on 7/5/2010 12:39:24 PM , Rating: 4

you forget to mention shipping charges.. that would put an online retailer at a disadvantage.. also sales tax is so important.. new hampshire does fine with out one.. yet califirnia "needs" what is it now. 9.5% to pay for the illegals. the worse person you can trust to spend your money correctly is the govt..

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSojar on 7/5/10, Rating: -1

By LordSojar on 7/5/2010 12:52:52 PM , Rating: -1

quote:
you forget to mention shipping charges.. that would put an online retailer at a disadvantage.. also sales tax is so important.. new hampshire does fine with out one.. yet califirnia "needs" what is it now. 9.5% to pay for the illegals. the worse person you can trust to spend your money correctly is the govt..

Really? Tell that to the NHTSA that keeps you and your family safe with safety codes and laws. Tell that to the FDA, who keep big pharmaceutical companies from releasing drugs that have a 50% chance to kill you.

Big business doesn't give two shits about your or your sad little family. They care about money, pure and simple. Without government regulation, our gas would be inferior quality and still be leaded, our infant mortality rate would be even worse than it already is, our food would be contaminated, our water would be worse than it is, our pharmaceuticals would kill many many times the number of people than they already do. Businesses don't care about anything but money.

Cure for cancer? They don't want it. There is more money in treating a patient and sustaining them through the illness and them dying than there is in curing them outright. You are naive if you think otherwise.

The worst person you can trust to spend your money for you are businesses, because they are there to steal your money and keep it for themselves to boost their bottom line. Government at least attempts (albeit fails in the USA most of the time) to put that money back into the country to better it.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By carigis on 7/5/2010 12:59:11 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Really? Tell that to the NHTSA that keeps you and your family safe with safety codes and laws. Tell that to the FDA, who keep big pharmaceutical companies from releasing drugs that have a 50% chance to kill you. Big business doesn't give two shits about your or your sad little family. They care about money, pure and simple. Without government regulation, our gas would be inferior quality and still be leaded, our infant mortality rate would be even worse than it already is, our food would be contaminated, our water would be worse than it is, our pharmaceuticals would kill many many times the number of people than they already do. Businesses don't care about anything but money. Cure for cancer? They don't want it. There is more money in treating a patient and sustaining them through the illness and them dying than there is in curing them outright. You are naive if you think otherwise. The worst person you can trust to spend your money for you are businesses, because they are there to steal your money and keep it for themselves to boost their bottom line. Government at least attempts (albeit fails in the USA most of the time) to put that money back into the country to better it.

and all that has diddly to do with sales tax.. we do pay an income tax as well.. then a sales tax.. as well as..

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel permit tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax Interest expense (tax on the money)
Inventory tax IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Taxes (Truckers)
Sales Taxes
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and
local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Toll Bridge Taxes
Toll Tunnel Taxes
Traffic Fines (indirect taxation)
Trailer Registration Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax ..and so on..

Im sure you get the point..

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSojar on 7/5/10, Rating: -1

RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By carigis on 7/5/2010 1:11:20 PM , Rating: 2

the fact is the average american works for free until April 9th or so every year... solely to pay taxes. In essence.. slave labor for 4 1/2 months out of the year..

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSojar on 7/5/10, Rating: 0

RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By carigis on 7/5/2010 1:26:11 PM , Rating: 2

maybe you don't know math and think because they take it out little by little it doesn't count as much... and paying taxes is not exactly volunteering.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSojar on 7/5/10, Rating: -1

By LordSojar on 7/5/2010 1:39:14 PM , Rating: -1

quote:
maybe you don't know math and think because they take it out little by little it doesn't count as much... and paying taxes is not exactly volunteering.

Do you even think about what you typing before you post it?

I'd challenge you to a contest in mathematics, but I have a funny feeling that my experience in discrete mathematics, advanced calculus, linear algebra, statistics, differential equations and vector/tensor (this includes eigen) analysis might make you spontaneously combustive, going out in a fiery ball of xenophobic hyper-conservative patriotic zealotry.

Simple mathematics here my friend:

Income is coming in. A percentage is taken out as tax (let's say 25% to make this easy on you).

That means you keep 75% of your money. You work for 10 years. You are still keeping 75% of your money... 25% of it is still gone from taxes.

Now, let's be fancy and add in tax rebates or owing taxes at the end of the year. Let's say you get 10% of your taxes back... or even better, let's say you owe an extra 10% at the end of the year. For the sake of ease, we'll say that percentage was also based on your gross income, not your net, so... it's a flat 10% off the total gross, meaning you paid 35% in taxes (or 15% assuming the reverse). Now, of course, this is assuming gross taxation, and additive percentages...

A smaller constant percentage being taken out doesn't eventually outweigh the greater constant percentage being taken home, at least not on this planet. All those little bits add up to the same percentage. You need to retake, oh what would that be, 8th grade math? It's been a while since I dealt with elementary mathematics.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By MadMan007 on 7/5/10, Rating: 0

RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By carigis on 7/5/2010 1:18:09 PM , Rating: 2

the states that have sales tax get it BOTH ways. they still have all the other taxes.. and doing your patriotic "duty" to support taxes just screws you more..

Im MA they had an initiative on the ballot to eliminate the sales tax or cut it to 3% I forget which.. the teachers union whined about schools yada yada yada..(I dont have kids pay for your own kids) so the people defeated it thinking it was just too much of a cut.... so what happens next.. you guessed it.. the state legislature RAISED the previously stable tax by an additional 1.25% and threw the ability to add a local food tax on all meals in too..

why?

because they realized the people are so dumb that they will take about anything as long as you say... its for the children.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 3:11:03 PM , Rating: 2

"Could you guys be any more two faced?"
Well, I'm sure you can do quite a good job of it. GO TEAM!

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By chick0n on 7/5/10, Rating: 0

RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 11:42:42 AM , Rating: 1

quote:
You need to get your head out of your ass and stop thinking "America is the best"

Well that's not going to happen. Because it is. I love my country, and no fuckwit stranger on the Internet is going to change that.

quote:
I have friends who live in France his life

I'm sorry.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By danobrega on 7/5/2010 12:53:35 PM , Rating: 2

It's a shame your country does not love you back. Love your country? Wtf is that supposed to mean? You complain about welfare/socialism and say you love your country in the same sentence. WTF do you do for your country? You only love our own arse, you stupid redneck.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By chick0n on 7/5/2010 11:37:36 PM , Rating: 2

haha thank you. you said everything I wanna say.

yea ... gotta love double standards :)

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Ammohunt on 7/6/2010 2:34:40 PM , Rating: 2

You haven't left yet? Go join you Marxist buddies in France protesting austerity measures becasue they can't pay for their monstrous government.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Da W on 7/5/2010 11:55:48 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
You, like most Americans, are uninformed of the world around you.

I so fucking agree!

Here's a clue: get the hell out of Irak and get out of Afganistan, cut your army size by 80%, stop being arrogant bastards with the rest of the world, get back to "mind your own business" foreign policy, straiten your social security system by capitalising it and get the government out of the mortgage business. You should be good to go without tax raises for a few decades with that.

Canada might have a crappy healthcare system, heavy tax burden, but at least the whole world don't hate us. And we don't have an army of poor people roaming down the streets with guns. Our poorest are sitting in their lazyboys at home watching HD TV :-)

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 5:08:43 PM , Rating: 2

"Here's a clue: get the hell out of Irak and get out of Afganistan, cut your army size by 80%, stop being arrogant bastards with the rest of the world"

Yet another arrogant bastard. Wait, did he call himself one or someone else? We have another hypocrite! Another team player!
Now, log into your alternate account and have another conversation with yourself. Asshat.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Ammohunt on 7/6/2010 2:38:53 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Canada might have a crappy healthcare system, heavy tax burden, but at least the whole world don't hate us.

I lose so much sleep at night knowing that Muslim Theocracies, Marxist Dictatorships,Facist Dictatorships, Euro-pansies and Hosers hate my country sooo much! Looks like we are doing something right!

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 11:01:34 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
But why does the govt have to put their hand into internet sales?

Because in the last year they have passed legislation that has created debt we CANNOT sustain. That is a fact, we cannot sustain this debt. So as a bandaid, so we don't suffer an immediate collapse, they seek to boost tax revenue in all ways possible. Usually combined with cutbacks in the military. This is standard Democrat Recession Building Playbook 101 strategy.

Of course completely ignoring the fact that every time taxes are increased, government revenues DECREASE. This has been proven time and time again in our history.

I really just weep for my country at the thought of what 3, or god forbid, 7 more years of this Administration is going to do to it. But most people seem to be too stupid, or complacent, to realize how this isn't Politics as usual.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By HotFoot on 7/5/2010 11:11:30 AM , Rating: 2

Generally, I'd like to go for the lesser of two evils, but as far as finances go, I can't pick which is worse.

Seems to me that a party that took a country from surplus budgets to massive deficits during economically good times is no better at steering the ship than one that deepened those deficits during a recession.

It's a recession. Deficits are going to happen. But please when you pick the next group to lead pick people who aren't just after getting their hand in the cookie jar. Pay down the debt when the good times return.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 11:29:21 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
Seems to me that a party that took a country from surplus budgets to massive deficits during economically good times is no better at steering the ship than one that deepened those deficits during a recession.

http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16

There was never a surplus that Clinton left to Bush, that he then turned into a deficit. It's a myth.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/5/2010 11:41:48 AM , Rating: 3

IT was still pretty close and the best that it has been since at least the 1970's and Bush totally broke it.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 11:56:37 AM , Rating: 1

quote:
IT was still pretty close and the best that it has been since at least the 1970's and Bush totally broke it.

Are we forgetting that Clinton received huge tax revenue from the creation of the Internet bubble? He also benefited from a military spending reduction due to the ending of the Cold War. Two things he literally had nothing to do with. Right place, right time.

Budget surpluses, as explained in the link, can be misleading. The only debt number that matters is our total national debt, which went up every year under Clinton. You can't have a surplus if the debt is going up. It's impossible. Clinton spent more money than the Gov took in every year, and U.S Treasury records prove this.

But look, point is, this whole budget surplus of Clinton's is a lie and a myth. And I get kind of tired of hearing it.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By HotFoot on 7/5/2010 12:03:34 PM , Rating: 2

You make a very good point about debt increase versus deficit. I think deficit/surplus needs to be reported according to changes in national debt. The debt was going up every year, as you pointed out. In my mind, that means no surplus.

Certainly the ratio of debt to GDP was vastly improving during that time.

Maybe it was the peace dividend, or the tech bubble, but Bush had his housing bubble, too. And - it is sad to see the world's largest economy brought to such a state. Isn't this exactly what Osama Bin Laden wanted? I recall his stated goal was to bankrupt the U.S. by provoking them to war. So far, it seems to have been working. The U.S.S.R. was done in by unsustainable military spending on top of an economic structure that couldn't sustain it. The U.S.A. certainly has a much better economy, but there is a practical limit to how much you can spend.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/10, Rating: 0

RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/5/2010 12:28:39 PM , Rating: 3

"But look, point is, this whole budget surplus of Clinton's is a lie and a myth. And I get kind of tired of hearing it. "

I find it hilarious how you completely dismiss anything positive the left does and exaggerate anything positive the right does - at the same time you completely dismiss anything negative the right does and exaggerate anything negative the left does.

That is the definition of being a partisaned hack. You cant even have a serious logical conversation... really, think about that.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 12:57:37 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
I find it hilarious how you completely dismiss anything positive the left does

Can you give me an example? A "budget surplus" that I have just proved wasn't fact, isn't a positive. It's propaganda.

Unless you think an Internet Tax is "positive"??

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/5/2010 1:13:48 PM , Rating: 2

Its all accounting, a little here a little there. If you want to say "it wasnt a surplus" that is fine. It wasnt.

The point is Clinton had it very close and was headed in the right direction, can you agree on that? It was close and FAR better off then the huge deficits Clinton inherited and that Bush returned to.

Can you at least agree that Reagan and Bush1 had record deficits and it "nearly" was eliminated under Clinton? And that Bush2 completely fumbled the ball that Clinton gave him on the 2 yard line? Obama is fumbling too, I will give you that. Can you at least admit 2 things. 1 - that Clinton handled it well, and 2 that Bush screwed hte pooch?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 2:25:41 PM , Rating: 1

I love how you completely re-write history.

Liberals love to claim that Reagan created a huge deficit because he lowered taxes, and of course, they hate lowering of the taxes. But records prove that Government revenue skyrocketed because of the tax cuts, contrary to Liberal beliefs. He also cut government spending as a % of GDP.

Carter left Reagan as absolute MESS. You can't fix unemployment and debt without first fixing inflation, and Reagan knew this. Carter left him with a whopping 12.61% inflation rate, which he eventually brought down, but it wasn't easy or fast. When that happened, people began spending more for durable goods and unemployment started dropping. But it didn’t happen over night.

What was the misery index when Reagan left office? 9.72, down from Carters OVER 20! Inflation was 4.67% (anything under 5% is considered healthy) and unemployment 5.05%. That was better than he inherited from Carter, which was inflation of 12.61 and unemployment of 7.54 at the time of the 1980 election.

Let’s look at the deficit. I will give you two simple tasks to research, if you dare. You will see the Reagan tax cuts DOUBLED revenue before he left office. So why did the deficit go up? Because the House, which controls spending, saw more money coming in and figured out new ways to spend it. Look at baseline budgeting, if you dare.
Oh by the way, the House that spent all the new revenue AND MORE, was controlled by the Democrats. You failed to throw out that little tidbit of truth. Must have slipped your mind.

This is already too long, so I will not add to it much more. Suffice to say, you are great with half truths. Kudos to you. You belong in Washington, I think. Or maybe making films with Michael Moore.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/5/2010 2:59:00 PM , Rating: 3

/paste

you completely dismiss anything positive the left does and exaggerate anything positive the right does - at the same time you completely dismiss anything negative the right does and exaggerate anything negative the left does.

You are too partisaned to even have a discussion with.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 4:45:53 PM , Rating: 1

Lol bravo. When the facts speak for themselves, you run.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/5/2010 5:45:27 PM , Rating: 4

Run? How am I running? You simply dismiss anything good that the one side does and blame all the bad on that same side. A debate cannot be had with you.

Here is another thing you keep dodging. The reps have had the white house for 20 of the past 28 years, and 12 of the past 14 years in control of Congress. You simply cannot act like everything is the dems fault, because the fact is the reps have had the majority of power in the past few decades... Lets see your deceptive take on that little fact.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/6/2010 1:42:41 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Run? How am I running? You simply dismiss anything good that the one side does and blame all the bad on that same side. A debate cannot be had with you.

And you are doing the EXACT same thing. You're either oblivious or a hypocrite. Because of you, we're writing volumes about Bush, Clinton, and Reagan on a article about something the OBAMA administration is doing. Talk about a smokescreen!

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/6/2010 2:19:51 PM , Rating: 2

"And you are doing the EXACT same thing"

Oh, now adding english comprehension to your list of crap.

How is that the same? I have said I dont now how many times I dont like what Obama and the dems are doing with our money. I think they will drive us broke. I can openly and honestly say both parties suck (and I have). YOU can only blame the dems, you act like all our problems are caused by the dems and the reps can do no wrong. I pointed out that the reps have had the majority of power 20 of the last 28 years in oval office and 12 of last 14 years in control of congress, yest still somehow everything bad is the dems fault.

You just regurgitate the party line and actually think the reps didnt get us where we are today as if this lovely mess we are in somehow started in January of 2009.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By YashBudini on 7/5/2010 4:50:35 PM , Rating: 1

Why do you think I keep calling him a sheeple?

He hasn't displayed any independent thought in any post he's ever made, he just keeps regrugitating the party line.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Ammohunt on 7/6/2010 2:42:06 PM , Rating: 2

I love this argument! the Governmnet doesn't have/generate money any "surplus" is taxpayer money and the result of over taxes.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By chick0n on 7/5/2010 11:45:12 AM , Rating: 2

you also gotta admit that Bush waste tons of money on finding WMD ... oh wait, was there any WMD ?

At least Clinton did made profit for the country.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By nshoe on 7/5/2010 12:07:29 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
At least Clinton did made profit for the country.

So the national debt increasing $1.5trillion over the course of his presidency is a profit?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/5/2010 1:16:26 PM , Rating: 4

He inherited a record deficit and lowered it to the lowest deficit seen in 2 generations. Its not a profit, but its less loss than we have seen in my entire 39 year lifetime. Wow... how are we ever still surviving is beyond me. LOL

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 2:30:44 PM , Rating: 2

You can't lower a deficit while increasing national debt. I don't mind when people lie, but you keep repeating the same lie. I have already proved, using the US Treasuries own numbers, that what you are saying didn't happen. What more do I have to do?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/5/2010 2:55:54 PM , Rating: 2

Uh.. yes you can. On top of being a partisaned hack, you need to take some economics and basic math courses as well.

Every year we have a deficit the national debt increases. If the deficit is reduced from 400 billion to 50 billion, the debt still goes up 50 billion and that makes it 50 billion higher than before and therefore still a record high. However, 400 billion down to 50 billion has to be seen as an improvement. Seriously... either you are twisting words and facts or you did not graduate jr high , because you should have learned those basic math skill by then. You just keep spreading your crap.

You know, before Obama took office in 2009, the reps have had the white house for 20 of the past 28 years, and 12 of the past 14 years in control of Congress. You simply cannot act like everything is the dems fault, because the fact is the reps have had the majority of power in the past few decades.... spin that one.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By chick0n on 7/6/2010 12:32:47 AM , Rating: 2

You don't have to do anything.

cuz all u post were bs. and u failed basic math.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Solandri on 7/5/2010 3:56:59 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
He inherited a record deficit and lowered it to the lowest deficit seen in 2 generations.

Clinton didn't cut spending much during his terms (to his credit, he did cut spending). The bulk of "his" deficit reduction was actually due to increased tax revenue caused by the tech bubble.
http://www.econlib.org/library/Columns/y2009/Humme...

If you look at the lines and compare Clinton to Bush, you'll see that Bush's two terms actually averaged about the same amount of spending as Clinton's two terms. The big difference was in the amount of revenue.

Basically, if you're going to give Clinton credit for reducing the deficit via the tech bubble and blame Bush for what happened when the bubble popped, then you have to give Bush credit for the increased economic activity during the housing bubble and blame Obama for what happened after that bubble popped.

I try not to give politicians credit for good things that happen in a bubble; neither do I blame them for bad things that happen after the bubble pops (unless they helped cause the bubble).

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/6/2010 1:40:06 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Basically, if you're going to give Clinton credit for reducing the deficit via the tech bubble and blame Bush for what happened when the bubble popped, then you have to give Bush credit for the increased economic activity during the housing bubble and blame Obama for what happened after that bubble popped.

Oh we can't let this gem slip through the cracks. Well said, sir.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By rdawise on 7/5/2010 4:40:10 PM , Rating: 2

Never a surplus? Do you know the economic definiton of a "surplus"?

And please, if you are going to quote something please try to quote from someone who isn't bias. Don't be like Faux News...

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Ammohunt on 7/6/2010 2:46:46 PM , Rating: 2

Free advice anyone that uses "Faux news" discredits themselves immediately. You don't see us refereing to the rest of the MSM and MarxStalinNBC or Obama News Networks which is actually a more accurate description.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/5/2010 11:11:29 AM , Rating: 2

You do realize that these stim bill and all that that put the deficit to record highs are to keep the economy from crashing into depression right. The Economy that George Bush and the rep control congress created for us ? YOu ARE aware of that right? Arent you? Because you keep spouting off as if you arent.

I dont agree with the spending either, I prefer to let the economy do its own thing. But lets not pretend to ignore what got us here and why the stimulus exists. George Bush and his 6 years of rep controlled congress got us into 2 unsustainable wars and racked up record deficits. Their deficits were not due to any positive purpose. Obamas deficits are on stim packs to keep the economy that reps broke from turning to depression.

You CAN see the difference cant you?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 11:23:16 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
You do realize that these stim bill and all that that put the deficit to record highs are to keep the economy from crashing into depression right.

Can you please explain to me how taking massive capital from the economy, and slowly dolling it out to pet projects over a period of years, saved the economy from a depression? Last I heard only about 10% of the "stimulus" has even been spent. How in the hell did that save us from a Depression?? And why, if we needed it "right then", is it taking YEARS to spend?

Simple, because idiots like you actually thought the Government should be trusted, or could even efficiently spend, such a huge sum of money. You're such a moron you are sitting here telling me you actually believe you can pay debt with MORE debt. Honestly, how does that work again?

You're not only sadly misinformed, you're a shill. The "stimulus" was a huge bill of earmarks for Obama campaign contributors. A slush fund. How in the hell was giving money to ACORN, for example, stimulating the economy and staving off a Depression?

Also the whole "Bush did this" isn't gaining traction anymore either. Is that all you have? Have you seen the newest jobs report? Please tell me what Bush policy that was passed that is STILL causing massive unemployment? And tell me why Obama seems to be helpless to stop it?

This isn't a year or two ago. Stop the stupidity, please. Even if I accepted the premise that all of this is Bush's fault, you would have to accept the fact that Obama has done NOTHING to fix it. He's done everything to purposely make things worst.

By the way, unsustainable? Bush left office with a 650 billion deficit. Hardly unsustainable, not great, but sustainable. Go look at what our deficit is NOW, you idiot.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/5/2010 11:27:33 AM , Rating: 2

" Bush left office with a 650 billion deficit. Hardly unsustainable, not great, but sustainable. Go look at what our deficit is NOW, you idiot. "

See my previous post for info on that. At least the current deficit is for the stimulus. And I have said I don't agree with it, but MOST top economists do, as did George Bush, he did the first stimulus if you remember (I know for the puposes of your right wing argument you prefer to forget Bush and all he did).

You also dont seem to understand what goes into "deficit". Or how to economically handle one a country. #1 tax revenue is DOWN because people are out of work. #2 you HAVE to spend money to climb out of recession faster. No I dont agree with all of what the dems have spend money on. If it were up to me I would have spend far less on far less projects, but its not thier mess, they are in NO WAY the cause of any of this. It is Obama's job to fix it now because Bush sat there like a lame duck doing almost nothing the last year in office while the world crashed around him "leave it for the next guy" was clearly his plan.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 11:33:11 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
I don't agree with it, but MOST top economists do, as did George Bush, he did the first stimulus if you remember (I know for the puposes of your right wing argument you prefer to forget Bush and all he did).

Oh..my..goodness...

*sigh*

I remember Bush's "stimulus" being a TAX REBATE that I received. He put OUR MONEY back in OUR HANDS. Did he not? He didn't take our money and give it to the government, and then let the government spend it as it wished.

Do YOU see the difference??

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/5/2010 11:44:10 AM , Rating: 2

You arent going to get me to agree with the Obama/dems stim bills because I dont.

My whole point here to you is that the reps got us where we are, dont forget that this is thier mess that Obama is failing to steer us out of. You mentioned above that you cant wait forthe reps to take power again - which is what started this debate. The reps got us here , so lets not pretend they are so wonderful economically speaking.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 12:03:39 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
You arent going to get me to agree with the Obama/dems stim bills because I dont.

But you keep bringing them up. You also just brought up the Bush stimulus as a "there, take that" argument point.

I think what it boils down to is, you hated Bush, so no matter what Obama does you are somehow going to make him seem better or something. It's really weird where you are going with your points and arguments.

You say you don't agree with the spending, but claim we need it because of something Bush did, that you can't quite put your finger on. You completely ignored my point about spending money to pay off debt, and how that can't work and never has...

Look I don't know what you want me to say here. You hate Bush, ok cool, I get that. Can we move on now?

Bush wasn't a traditional Republican, he sure as hell wasn't a Conservative. He was a fiscal moderate, when it's all said and done. Which is, ironically, what you guys claim you want in a Republican...

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/5/2010 12:35:34 PM , Rating: 2

TO be honest, it would be nice if any party would stand up to the old time republican values. Small government, a low tax business friendly environment, freemarket rules, and govt. butting out of peoples lives. THAT sounds great to me. Neither party has anything like those values.

The Dems and reps all seem to spend wildly, neither of which get us anywhere but deeper in debt.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By chick0n on 7/5/2010 11:49:04 AM , Rating: 1

rofl ?

This country has money ?

shit, I didn't know that.

mind u, the money u got from Bush came from countries like CHINA. so no, its not even ur money in the first place.

moron.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 7:59:38 PM , Rating: 2

" Bush left office with a 650 billion deficit. Hardly unsustainable, not great, but sustainable. Go look at what our deficit is NOW, you idiot. "

Didn't Bush leave $350 billion for Obama to spend?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By YashBudini on 7/5/2010 8:35:37 PM , Rating: 2

Does it matter who overspends? They both claim justification, but so did PT Barnum.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 11:42:34 PM , Rating: 2

"They both claim justification, but so did PT Barnum. "

Oh, that's it, drag P.T. in this.
Well, there is a sucker born every minute.
Kinda looks like it is We The People.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 10:16:18 PM , Rating: 2

Obama is a typical tax/borrow and spend Democrat. The most radical of the sort. I think it's funny that people think there is some level of debt that Bush left him where Obama wouldn't still spend more. Think about it. If Bush left him 600 BAZTRILLZIONS in the hole, he would STILL be spending money we don't have.

Obama has spent more than every President put together. Fact. The only thing Bush left him were excuses to do more of the same, on an epic scale.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Kurz on 7/5/2010 10:37:09 AM , Rating: 2

Since there is power and money to be had in progressive Ideas.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Shatbot on 7/5/2010 10:45:43 AM , Rating: 3

I hate tax as much as anyone, but it makes no sense that online purchases are a weird loophole. It's like a giant Duty Free store selling every product on the planet, just pay shipping and handling.

Not looking forward to price increases, I wonder how it would work with international sales?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By maverick85wd on 7/6/2010 1:29:57 AM , Rating: 2

I accidentally clicked "Agree" instead of "Disagree" so I had to comment to retract it. Increasing taxes is totally absurd, our government should focus on increasing efficiency and reducing it's size. Unfortunately, government expands, it doesn't contract so much.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 10:50:57 AM , Rating: 1

Mick stop the constant snow job. The Republicans don't have the power to stop anything. Simply because a few Republicans lean to the left, doesn't mean this is a Republican supported agenda.

Come November we'll see how people "give credit where it's due", when the Republicans retake Congress and restore some sanity in the Government.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/5/2010 11:01:46 AM , Rating: 2

"Come November we'll see how people "give credit where it's due", when the Republicans retake Congress and restore some sanity in the Government. "

Yes, because the previous 8 years went so well for our country and the world for that matter... Can wait for that !

LOL - idiot.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 11:10:11 AM , Rating: 3

quote:
Yes, because the previous 8 years went so well for our country and the world for that matter... Can wait for that !

No, in a lot of ways they weren't that great. But you know what? A lot of people are waking up to the fact of how much WORST things could get.

Hope and Change.. hows it working out?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/5/2010 11:15:01 AM , Rating: 2

Well, its a tough corner to turn to get out of the hole that GB and the reps got us in. Its a bitter pill and it sucks. Just dont forget what got us here.

As much as Obama and the dems suck and are spending way too much, it still loads better than the alternative of the previuos power structure that took good times and turned them into bad times. Obama and dems inherited the bad times and are just meandering them along getting slightly better.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Daniel8uk on 7/5/2010 11:27:02 AM , Rating: 1

You are living in a dream world, I'm not even American and I can see how much damage Obama and his cronies are doing to America and the rest of the world.

Get a grip, Obama isn't a saviour and he sure as hell doesn't care about what the people think of him.

Here is a little clue, go look at his election campaign and then go count up the many many many occasions where he has went completely against what he promised, the Iraq war, the drone attacks etcetera.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/5/2010 11:31:31 AM , Rating: 2

Sorry, I dont think Obama is the saviour and I am not very much impressed by his leadership or the job he is doing. I was simply pointing out that the other side (the side that got us where we are) is worse.

ME saying George Bush and the reps got us here is not by any means an endorsement for Obama and the dems. They are all criminals if you ask me... The Reps policies are just a bit more damaging to the country as a whole.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 12:18:01 PM , Rating: 1

quote:
ME saying George Bush and the reps got us here is not by any means an endorsement for Obama and the dems.

So that's it, they get a free pass? At what point do you call them out? In 5, 10, 20 years?

When we're all living in Greece 2, will you still look around and say, "well things are pretty bad, but there was this Bush guy...." ?

You know, we get it. Bush fucked up some stuff. But when do we start dealing with the present!? I don't understand this attitude!! Someone help me.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By retrospooty on 7/5/2010 1:19:21 PM , Rating: 2

OK, to that particular point, I will help you. We are not headed in the right direction under Obama and the dems. This spending has got to stop... The reps and thier policies arent any better. The whlve govt. spending our cash like there is no tomorrow has got to stop, by the whole govt. Not reps not dems, all of them.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 11:39:25 PM , Rating: 2

"Well, its a tough corner to turn to get out of the hole that GB and the reps got us in. Its a bitter pill and it sucks."

You just happen to forget one important fact. Who voted for the wars? The POTUS only has so much power and couldn't do it on his own.
To use your quote: "Its a bitter pill and it sucks".
Yes, it sure does.

Most of our representatives have sold out America, question is: What are we going to do about it?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By thurston on 7/5/2010 11:04:17 AM , Rating: 2

Why don't you get your head out of your ass and realize that both parties suck.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 11:12:57 AM , Rating: 2

Yup, but one sucks less. I'm a realist, not an idealist. So right now sucking less is good enough for me.

Keep dreaming that a third party will save you if that makes you feel better though, by all means.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By thurston on 7/5/2010 11:20:47 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
So right now sucking less is good enough for me.

That's because you have your head stuck up your ass.

quote:
Keep dreaming that a third party will save you if that makes you feel better though, by all means.

I don't think a third party will save me. How about no party, a third party would be just like the other two.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 11:34:44 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
I don't think a third party will save me. How about no party, a third party would be just like the other two.

Anarchy or a another civil war?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By thurston on 7/5/2010 1:23:34 PM , Rating: 2

Why anarchy or civil war?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By YashBudini on 7/5/2010 6:53:23 PM , Rating: 2

"I don't think a third party will save me. "

As long as have lobbyists all government is doomed.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 11:44:53 PM , Rating: 2

"As long as *(you)* have lobbyists all government is doomed."

I think they are a large part of the problem.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By YashBudini on 7/6/2010 10:40:31 PM , Rating: 1

What we need is a website that shows where the politician is working as a lobbyist and how he treated that same company while in office. Ultimately the bribe they take is the high paying job after office.

(Unlike Quadrillity I have no problem stating that both parties perform this reprehensible crap and it should be outlawed, but I'm sure the big Q will manage to justify it for the pubs, in his highly objective mind.)

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By YashBudini on 7/5/2010 4:52:50 PM , Rating: 1

" So right now sucking less is good enough for me."

Spoken like a no solution loser.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By Reclaimer77 on 7/5/2010 5:16:37 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Spoken like a no solution loser.

While offering none yourself. You seem to just follow me around, posting insults and snide remarks to my every post, but never actually contribute to the discussion or unveil all of your glorious knowledge and wisdom to us.

You're a waste of bandwidth.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By YashBudini on 7/5/2010 5:34:18 PM , Rating: 2

You have never listened to anything anyone has ever said, so how would you know?

And not that your argument is anything positive, you're a typical pub, every time somebody points to some horrendous pub mistake you simply shake it off and offer something worse, as if that's makes it OK, when it clearly doesn't it.

By the way that book still proclaims you're a loser as well.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-7-Habits-of-H...

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 5:49:17 PM , Rating: 2

"Spoken like a no solution loser. "

What is your solution oh grand poobah? You like to run off at the keyboard as much as anyone but where are your ideas?
Typical libtard.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By YashBudini on 7/5/2010 6:03:47 PM , Rating: 2

I never voted for Obama.

And why offer anything to such closed minded people anyway?

At least I don't pretend to be all knowing all correct, I just shoot at fish in a barrel.

What sayeth oh self endowed lord?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 6:17:35 PM , Rating: 2

Read fail on your part. I never said you voted for Obama, I called you a libtard. And everyone knows, libtards is skeered of da guns! I don't think that cap gun will net you many fish. Does PETA know what you are attempting?

"And why offer anything to such closed minded people anyway?"
Can you say Cop Out? Sure ya kin!
Way to actually say: I am typing out of my ass and have NO solutions of my own. Be honest here, this is what you are really typing.
So say we all.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By YashBudini on 7/5/2010 6:36:30 PM , Rating: 2

Oooh big bad man, so you think. Typical red hat that believes respect and intimidation are the same thing. How much does your penis extender weigh?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 11:46:52 PM , Rating: 2

"How much does your penis extender weigh? "
You want that in cut taxes or spend, spend, spend weight? ;)

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By YashBudini on 7/5/2010 6:43:21 PM , Rating: 2

Actually I did post my opinion. How did someone as intelligent as you miss it?

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 11:49:17 PM , Rating: 2

" Actually I did post my opinion. How did someone as intelligent as you miss it?"

I couldn't see it for your enormous e-penis! :) I promise to be good from now on , daddy.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By YashBudini on 7/6/2010 12:30:49 AM , Rating: 2

Touche!

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By thurston on 7/8/2010 8:53:16 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
And everyone knows, libtards is skeered of da guns!

I am what you would call a Liberal and I own guns. The only time I fear guns is when they are in the hands of some wacko idiot that wants to kill people.

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By carigis on 7/5/2010 11:17:01 AM , Rating: 2

the only cosponsors I see are democrats..

Rep Capuano, Michael E. [MA-8] - 7/1/2010
Rep Conyers, John, Jr. [MI-14] - 7/1/2010
Rep Herseth Sandlin, Stephanie [SD] - 7/1/2010
Rep Welch, Peter [VT]

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By gorehound on 7/6/2010 1:10:49 PM , Rating: 2

And I for one am totally sick and fedup with both Republicans and Democrats.These rich greedy parties are the bane of our society.We need to see something new and some real change.There are so many things that I have issues with it is not worth writing down all my gripes.
Next election I doubt either party will get my vote.
Maybe we need the Pirate Party.
Or better yet let us form the Marijuana Party !!!

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RE: Tax is the only dem solution

By RC50 on 7/6/2010 1:33:50 PM , Rating: 2

I am a republican, but would be ok with the bill if they were required to reduce spending by something like twice the amount of any tax increase. So a 23bil tax increase would also require a 46bil+ reduction in spending. At least until the budget is ballanced.

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wt frack

By Einy0 on 7/5/2010 10:30:04 AM , Rating: 5

I don't mind being taxed, but they already tax my income. Now they wan't to tax every purchase I make. What ever happened to not being taxed on the same thing twice. They tax income, then they tax purchases made with that same income. They are taxing the same thing twice. Just tax me more once and get it over with already. On top of that, what the hell do I get for those taxes? Wars all over the world. Cops who hassle every day citizen for going a few miles over the speed limit, while real criminals are committing real crimes all over the place. Corporate welfare, bailing out big rich companies that make poor choices. I'm getting fed up!!! Sorry, felt like a rant...

RE: wt frack

By Golgatha on 7/5/2010 10:39:05 AM , Rating: 5

Yea, I'm a firm believer that individuals do more good with their money than the government could ever conceive of doing. Less taxes are nearly always a good thing in my mind.

The main thing that bothers me is sales tax on used items like houses and cars. I mean really, if it's been resold 3 times I'm pretty sure the government has gotten it's money 4 times over. It's just wrong.

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RE: wt frack

By icanhascpu on 7/5/10, Rating: 0

RE: wt frack

By CZroe on 7/5/2010 7:58:31 PM , Rating: 2

Not to mention unjust taxes. If the Internet is cutting into local sales tax revenue, propose a national inter-state mail-order tax with a way to distribute it between both states and the Fed. It would apply to telephone and catalog orderform orders as well. Don't unfairly target Internet sales directly. This is what I have been saying since the '90s every time someone brought up an "Internet tax."

What's to stop Amazon or anyone else from having a "call to finalize order" option or even reduce their online presence to a simple catalog? It'd still be better than traditional mail-order due to real-time inventory/availability statistics, in-depth product information, and other such things.

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RE: wt frack

By gamerk2 on 7/6/10, Rating: -1

RE: wt frack

By crleap on 7/5/2010 11:06:08 AM , Rating: 2

amen brother. amen.

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RE: wt frack

By carigis on 7/5/2010 12:48:37 PM , Rating: 2

I agree with you..100%

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RE: wt frack

By Schadenfroh on 7/5/2010 1:14:57 PM , Rating: 3

The problem is that nearly half of American households do not pay income tax.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/04/15/hodge.non.ta...

"estimates the Tax Policy Center, the percentage of households who don't pay income taxes rises to 47 percent."

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RE: wt frack

By YashBudini on 7/7/2010 5:21:12 PM , Rating: 1

"The problem is that nearly half of American households do not pay income tax."

That does happen when you don't have income.

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RE: wt frack

By cruisin3style on 7/5/10, Rating: -1

RE: wt frack

By cruisin3style on 7/5/10, Rating: 0

RE: wt frack

By Nfarce on 7/5/2010 3:32:42 PM , Rating: 5

Because you are an idiot. Writing tickets for drunk driving, excessive speed over 20mph over the speed limit, and reckless "Fast And Furious" wannabe street racers out there are one thing. That's entirely different than artificially low posted 25-35mph speed limits that we ALL have experienced as ludicrous and some of us have been nailed with a ticket just 5-10mph over the posted limit by local/state government revenue collecting cops. Go find a "speed trap" website out there and see for yourself.

And regarding the internet and purchases, they ARE taxed if you live in a state the selling company has a physical store, even something so small and useless as a Dell kiosk in a mall. Amazon taxes purchasers where there main direct supply warehouses are (CA and NJ), or where states have mandated such taxes, which the last time I checked are in Kansas, Kentucky, New York, North Dakota, and Washington.

The last frontier of American freedom of commerce with limited government nannystatism and taxation without representation is the internet, so if people like you mindlessly believe that everything should be taxed indifeinitly and no line should be drawn on what should and should not be taxable, then you are part of the problem, not the solution. How about eBay and Craig's List purchases from one person to another? Think that should be taxed too even though the goods for sale were already taxed when bought new and no business was involved in the sale?

So in short, ^^that's^^ why you got voted down.

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RE: wt frack

By Nfarce on 7/5/10, Rating: 0

RE: wt frack

By cruisin3style on 7/5/2010 5:38:39 PM , Rating: 2

Passing anything near the crest of a hill that is steep enough that you couldn't see a car until it crested is plain stupid because anything could be on the other side. That's what it sounds like happened based on what I read, anyway. Doesn't make what happened to him right, though

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RE: wt frack

By Nfarce on 7/5/2010 5:47:42 PM , Rating: 1

Apparently you don't know that in the state where this happened, if you as a driver (on a tractor or otherwise) wave another driver to pass or go first and said driver you waved to go ahead gets creamed, you as the waiver are liable, not the driver.

Further, go back and re-read my post on that incident. It was a two lane road separated with a middle TURN lane, and he was nowhere NEAR in jeopardy of a head on collision with the cop unless said cop was in the turn lane, which wasn't the case as my friend saw the cop's light bars over the hill before the car itself.

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RE: wt frack

By cruisin3style on 7/5/2010 6:56:21 PM , Rating: 2

1st paragraph: great, sounds like it'll get tossed out in court? I don't care and not related to what I said.

2nd paragraph: Reread my post. I did not dispute anything you just said, merely that passing while approaching the crest of a hill is relatively stupid.

You infer far too much from what is actually on the page.

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RE: wt frack

By Alexvrb on 7/5/2010 7:43:36 PM , Rating: 2

Nonsense! Making sure there isn't another car coming is for chumps.

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RE: wt frack

By cruisin3style on 7/5/2010 4:34:16 PM , Rating: 2

First of all, I'd just like to say thank you for pointing upwards to your long diatribe, as I assumed your rant was about a post on another topic and not a reply to my post which yours is connected to with that little line and assumes you are replying to what I had to say. It's also amusing that you find your points good, and the ^^thats^^ is putting me in my place :)

It sucks that some places have low limits...the best is when it drops from 35 to 25 and then back to 35 in like a quarter mile strip. But are you really complaining because you got caught for a law you knew existed?

Hey look at me driving 10mph over the speed limit posted on the sign I just passed, but I'm not an idiot it's the guy on the internet who is just saying the police collect revenue hence the reason for ticketing and reasoned response to the comment about real criminals committing real crimes. If you know the game, and you know the law, you are the idiot for getting caught and then complaining about it.

Well you are supposed to pay taxes on all purchases anyway, it's just that people don't declare them. It's called the use tax as someone else mentioned on this page. This law presumably (and unfortunately) would just make it easier to collect those taxes. And no I'm not for used purchases being taxed, but are you saying that is in the bill or this is all just hypothetical?

Taxation without representation would imply that you aren't represented...so either you're in DC or a territory like Puerto Rico, or it is you sir who is the idiot. Yes, I mindlessly believe everything should be taxed. I'm definitely being mindlessly taxed by your ridiculous diatribe that is complaining more than reasoning. I don't know where "everything" came from, but I'm all for taxing the sperm that comes out of your body...taxation without procreation, please

Also, my e-penis is bigger

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RE: wt frack

By Nfarce on 7/5/2010 5:41:03 PM , Rating: 1

quote:
First of all, I'd just like to say thank you for pointing upwards to your long diatribe, as I assumed your rant was about a post on another topic...

Three paragraphs vs. your two (yeah I farted some keys on miss-spellings, so sue me).

quote:
It sucks that some places have low limits...the best is when it drops from 35 to 25 and then back to 35 in like a quarter mile strip. But are you really complaining because you got caught for a law you knew existed?

Your original argument was that taxes are necessary, even including speeding tickets. I just countered your argument. Stop bedwetting.

quote:
Well you are supposed to pay taxes on all purchases anyway, it's just that people don't declare them....And no I'm not for used purchases being taxed, but are you saying that is in the bill or this is all just hypothetical?

Do you have A.D.D. or something? I quantified your mentality and then simply kicked it up a notch to see your threshold point on taxation, that's all. Pull your skirt up - your slip is showing.

quote:
Taxation without representation would imply that you aren't represented...so either you're in DC or a territory like Puerto Rico, or it is you sir who is the idiot I don't know where "everything" came from, but I'm all for taxing the sperm that comes out of your body...taxation without procreation, please...Also, my e-penis is bigger

Your original premise was that we need to be taxed more and the internet should be taxed fully because of the fact that "all levels of government" can't seem to make ends meet. Well no sh!t. I surmise the thought of fiscal responsibility in "all levels of government" has never crossed your pseudo-well endowed mind in your e-penis.

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RE: wt frack

By cruisin3style on 7/5/2010 6:50:21 PM , Rating: 1

My arguement was definitely not that speeding tickets are necessary. It wasn't even an arguement. What I wanted to convey is police officers give you those tickets in part because it helps collect revenue. The OP was whining about tickets for 5-10mph over the speed limit and I stated a few reasons why those are given out. Nothing else. Certainly not that they are a necessary part of taxation.

I was enjoying this but your responses are no longer particularly intelligible or entertaining, and you have resorted to further name-calling which signifies your maturity level, which is equal to my interest in continuing this conversation.

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RE: wt frack

By Nfarce on 7/5/2010 7:00:44 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
My arguement was definitely not that speeding tickets are necessary. It wasn't even an arguement. What I wanted to convey is police officers give you those tickets in part because it helps collect revenue.

Oh okay, I guess that's why you posted this:

"Wake up. Cops harass everyday speeding citizens to collect revenue, and because they're breaking the law..."

quote:
and you have resorted to further name-calling which signifies your maturity level,

You are the one who came sputtering out of the gate with penis joke. Here on this blog you get thrown back what you throw. But anyway, there's a reason you got voted down, and I replied to your original whining about getting voted down to begin with, tax lover.

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RE: wt frack

By sprockkets on 7/5/10, Rating: 0

RE: wt frack

By Nfarce on 7/5/2010 4:16:30 PM , Rating: 3

Do you mind if I ask you a few questions?

SALES tax is supposed to be reported on my IRS return?

The federal government is supposed to ensure that "sales tax" goes to the "proper state?" So if I understand your comments correctly, the federal government is supposed to mandate and control state and local sales taxes. The last time I checked, everything I purchased required a state/local county sales tax, not a federal sales tax.

Finally, exactly what planet do you live on?

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RE: wt frack

By knutjb on 7/5/2010 5:52:24 PM , Rating: 4

States with income taxes do have a section to recover lost sales tax from internet purchases, Idaho does too along with many others.

The Democrats see a cash cow that they can rape to play like Robin Hood and steal from the rich and create more programs to manipulate the poor. They aren't going to just give states their fair share they will use it as carrot and stick.

Our cost go up because the Feds have to create another bureaucracy and that cost you more money. When the Gov increases taxes beyond what people accept they reject the demands of those violating the public's interest. Then this happens: http://www.hoover.org/publications/hoover-digest/a...

So I might ask what planet are you on?

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RE: wt frack

By Nfarce on 7/5/2010 6:52:35 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
States with income taxes do have a section to recover lost sales tax from internet purchases, Idaho does too along with many others.

The state I live in currently nor have the three previous states I've lived in since the internet as we know it today was even around currently do not have that chain around the taxpayer. So I plead ignorance to all the other state's income tax paperwork based upon no personal experience.

But even if I lived in a said state, I'd still give it the big middle finger on any garage sale, eBay sale, or Craig's List sale income I was involved with.

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RE: wt frack

By YashBudini on 7/5/2010 6:47:52 PM , Rating: 3

"It's sales tax. You are supposed to report that already on your tax return. But, who does?"

And since credit card companies issue annual usage statements it becomes easy as well. But states should be collecting such a tax, not the feds.

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RE: wt frack

By marvdmartian on 7/6/2010 8:55:44 AM , Rating: 2

My state of residence doesn't have a state income tax, which is how I believe most states want their residents to declare and pay the sales tax. So how do we do it in states like this one?

Also, if I'm paying sales tax on an internet sale, say, from a company in California.....do I pay the sales tax as if I'm in California, where the sale is being made (like I would if I walked into a B&M store in that state), or do I pay the sales tax for my state, where that company doesn't have a B&M presence, but where I'm making the purchase??

This is likely why Obama talks about value added tax (VAT). Simpler concept, you pay a flat tax on purchases made. Not sure how that affects state sales taxes, though....

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Legalize Drugs

By homernoy on 7/5/2010 10:40:00 AM , Rating: 5

If it's all about tax dollars, legalize drugs, tax the crap out of those sales. Leave the internet alone.

RE: Legalize Drugs

By Camikazi on 7/5/2010 10:54:15 AM , Rating: 4

While they would make ALOT of money doing that (on weed alone) getting it by all those "concerned" parents and holier then thou people in the country would be almost impossible.

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RE: Legalize Drugs

By sweetsauce on 7/5/2010 2:27:47 PM , Rating: 2

You cant legalize a plant because then it would directly complete with big pharmas, and we can't have that happen. The day big pharmas come up with a drunk pill is the day prohibition returns to the US.

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RE: Legalize Drugs

By icanhascpu on 7/5/2010 4:49:36 PM , Rating: 2

What do you think they are doing in the pharmaceutical industry?

Weed and the like have a hard time being legal because the average joe can produce them. Meaning; its hard to tax.

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RE: Legalize Drugs

By homernoy on 7/5/2010 5:56:15 PM , Rating: 2

Oh, now I see. That's why we tax alcohol and tabacco, they are impossible to grow or distill by anyone outside of the pharmaceutical industry. Phew!

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Another law is not needed.

By Motoman on 7/5/2010 11:43:40 AM , Rating: 5

This is a pointless effort.

The law already requires citizens to pay taxes on purchases they made out of state and therefore did not pay sales tax on - this tax is generally referred to as a "use tax" and AFAIK is on the book in every state in the union.

We don't need another law that will be redundant with this one - if you want to stop your citizens from breaking the use tax law, then work on that.

I also find it hilarious that Target, Wal-Mart, et al are "supporting" this measure. OF COURSE THEY ARE. Since they have B&M presence in every state in the union, they always have to collect sales tax ANYWAY. Passing of this new legislation wouldn't affect them in any way at all. It will, however, place an enormous burden on the small internet-only retailers who have business operations based on the fact that use tax laws place the burden of paying use taxes on the consumer, not the retailer.

This law is in support of big corporations and is detrimental to smaller online businesses - pure lobbyist-lovin' if I've ever seen it.

Incase you don't want to wait...

By carigis on 7/5/2010 11:06:14 AM , Rating: 2

here is the bill... send rep delahunt a message or call his office and let him know your enthusiasm for the bill and his future career as massachusetts Rep.

-----> http://delahunt.house.gov/mainstreetfairnessact.pd...

RE: Incase you don't want to wait...

By Cullinaire on 7/5/2010 2:21:56 PM , Rating: 2

Nice thought but I have a feeling Mr. Delahunt is a lame duck...

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/art...

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Contraction of the BM stores is linked to web retailers success.

By blueaurora on 7/5/2010 11:06:27 AM , Rating: 2

I love a deal as much as the next guy but as a retail manager I can assure you that the bare minimum margins web retailers live with will kill brick and mortar specialty stores altogether and dent mass retailers. It has been happening more and more of the years and has been exasperated by the economy free fall.

State funds and federal funds are being depleted. There should be at least a comparable tax for any puchases made at a web retailer. I don't think it should be a 1:1 equivelent but there should be a tax.

Goods have been taxed since before we were even a country. It is foolhardy to think that we should expect no tax to be had on any goods.

I am a conservative to the point of not even being a republican but this is something that your local stores around the corner need to be competitive. As it is now it is an unfair advantage. Supporting local businesses is required to keep the economy vibrant and competition is required to keep costs down. We need to keep all of it fair.

RE: Contraction of the BM stores is linked to web retailers success.

By arkcom on 7/5/10, Rating: 0

RE: Contraction of the BM stores is linked to web retailers success.

By arkcom on 7/5/10, Rating: 0

RE: Contraction of the BM stores is linked to web retailers success.

By Taft12 on 7/5/10, Rating: 0

RE: Contraction of the BM stores is linked to web retailers success.

By arkcom on 7/5/2010 3:42:11 PM , Rating: 2

Which is then offset by all of the low cost/high weight items. Not to mention every shipment under $50, no matter the weight. ($5 is the minimum price for shipping. I find it hard to believe that every specialty b/m store is going under because of the tax issue.

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Read the Bill!

By GruntboyX on 7/5/2010 12:10:46 PM , Rating: 2

So from the 1st few pages, i think this is a bill that i can support. Before a State can collect sales taxes from internet retailers it requires them to simplify their tax structure.

The bill also attempts to create an organization that oversees states tax structures for compliance. It requires the states to give one organization to pay the money too and not every county, state and city municipality. So it addresses key complaints by online retailers. I think its a middle ground that can work. I will still shop online, even if i have to pay sales tax because shipping is generally cheaper than me driving to a brick and mortar spending my gas. Also, its far more convenient and much better customer service. It levels the playing field, but it will not kill small internet businesses, nor will it really impact large internet retail. NewEgg with sales tax is still >>>>> than best buy.

Also, there appears to be an exemption for small internet businesses to not pay sales tax. so it doesn't stifle start-ups, and small businesses trying to expand their audience.

RE: Read the Bill!

By ZachDontScare on 7/6/2010 2:33:23 PM , Rating: 2

Oh, wow, yet another new government agency! Efficiency, here we come!

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Tax Rates?

By arkcom on 7/5/2010 10:38:16 AM , Rating: 3

Will this be a single rate for the whole country, or will it be based on the delivery location? I have small online store, and already have over 700 sales tax combos to calculate/collect just for Arkansas. If I had to calculate taxes the same way for every state, I would probably just shut down.

Owww $23 Billion you say...

By Daniel8uk on 7/5/2010 10:43:25 AM , Rating: 1

$23 Billion isn't really that much when you consider how much it's costing American citizens to keep their governments 'sponsors' stocked up with oil and other valuable minerals, from my understanding it's cost $1 Trillion so far and will cost roughly that amount each year while they are occupying foreign lands.

But, and this is a major but if the people of America decided to act they could save trillions upon trillions by removing the federal reserve, you guys do know that the more money America prints the more it get's in debt, right? That debt of course is paid to the federal reserve as they actually CHARGE the American government for printing the greenback.

Quite frankly these taxes are disgusting, hard working American citizens are struggling as it is and now the Government wants MORE money, when was the last time it did anything to actually help the people they are supposed to represent?

RE: Owww $23 Billion you say...

By frobizzle on 7/6/2010 7:53:24 AM , Rating: 2

I propose a new tax. We can call it the...

Bullshite Tax

How it works would be every time a politician spouts some crap, they pay the reasonable sum of $5. Within a month, that $23 billion will look like chump change!

Parent

IF it replaced the state sales tax...

By Shadowself on 7/5/2010 12:03:10 PM , Rating: 2

on Internet purchase I'd be 100% for it.

Right now sometimes I pay state sales tax on Internet purchases, sometimes I don't.

For those pushing either a hate Democrat or hate Republican agenda... the BIGGEST BY FAR proponent of state sales tax on Internet purchases has been Mike Leavitt (ex governor of Utah), a died in the wool Republican if there ever were one from an extremely conservative state -- and someone who claims to be extremely conservative on both social and fiscal fronts. However, he and many others have been pushing for universal rights to apply state sales tax to Internet purchases for well over a decade. He and his associates have largely succeeded.

Originally, states were not supposed to have *any* control over interstate commerce. States applying sales tax on interstate transactions is just flat out against this. The U.S. federal government has always had the right to tax anywhere within its borders and has had the right to tax international transactions. Replacing state sales taxes with a single federal tax on all Internet sales brings the situation back to the original intent.

As I said, if this replaced all state sales tax on Internet purchases and all purchases made on the Internet from a point of purchase and point of final delivery in the U.S. have a single flat rate tax then I'd be for it.

RE: IF it replaced the state sales tax...

By carigis on 7/5/10, Rating: 0

irony?

By shin0bi272 on 7/5/2010 12:55:14 PM , Rating: 2

This story is directly under TWO stories about government spending... is that done on purpose or is that just ironic that theres a story about 1.8 bil for solar plants and a new broadband initiative? They blow money trying to make you live your life the way they want then tax you for the way you are living your life now... anyone still not getting it? They want to run your life! Stop voting for these people and vote for someone who will SHRINK government!

Where are UPS, FedEX, USPS, DHL?

By jimbojimbo on 7/6/2010 4:21:37 PM , Rating: 2

If this bill passes let's all guess when the federal government will subsidize the losses that these delivery companies will take. I don't know what the stats are but I've got to think that online purchases make up a huge portion of their business.

Always the 1 sided argument

By YashBudini on 7/5/10, Rating: -1

By YashBudini on 7/5/2010 3:48:27 PM , Rating: -1

Yes there are a lot of taxes, but that doesn't address how many millions buy on-line for the sole reason not to pay the state taxes. Cab you really respect people who bite off their nose to spite their face? Have you ever bothered to see what that money is used for? Of you do live with a preconceived notion that it's 100% wasted?

When your state has to turn around and find a new source of revenue for Medicaid that should not be construed as a new tax. And just because you plan and don't need it today doesn't make it a correct and valid argument for tomorrow. Middle class people do save for retirement and do get crushed by medical bills regardless, and they do end up on Medicaid when the money runs out. It's not a matter of blame, it's just a fact of life.

Granted if you're rich enough to be addicted to oxycontin you can probably pay all your bills all the time, the sheeple continue to follow despite the hypocracy, but most people don't have such luxuries.