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Dell is set to increase its presence in India within the next three years

Dell has announced plans to double its workforce in India by the year 2009. The company currently has around 10,000 people working in the country spread across a product testing center, global software development center and four call centers.

The company is also looking to build a manufacturing plant in India to increase its current 4% marketshare in computer sales. "We have been in discussions with a number of state governments in terms of infrastructure and logistics. We are yet to make a decision on the location of the plant," said Michael Dell.

Dell is currently taxed heavily on built systems that it ships to India. By building the computers locally, the company would dodge most of those taxes and boost its share in a market that is expected to explode from 4 million annual units currently to 10 million units within three to five years.



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Perhaps some new legislation is needed...
By timmiser on 3/20/2006 4:27:02 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps some new tax/duty legislation is needed in the USA to reward companies for not farming out their workforce overseas?

Or maybe strike back at India and increase duties for goods coming to the USA from India?





By jskirwin on 3/20/2006 4:29:09 PM , Rating: 2
Services are the threat from India. China has the lock on the goods trade.


RE: Perhaps some new legislation is needed...
By TomZ on 3/20/2006 4:38:50 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Perhaps some new tax/duty legislation is needed in the USA to reward companies for not farming out their workforce overseas? Or maybe strike back at India and increase duties for goods coming to the USA from India?

Sounds like a good idea on the surface, but protectionism never works. In the long-term you have to allow jobs to flow to where they can be most efficiently done. This raises the standard of living for everyone involved. This has been shown in history time and time again.


RE: Perhaps some new legislation is needed...
By amish on 3/20/2006 7:15:03 PM , Rating: 2
true, protectionism never really works. but i think you are wrong in that globalization raises the standard of living for everyone involved. it more or less equalizes the balance of income.

people in India will receive a better wage than what they would have received previously. While in the US, worker no longer find themselves being needed and, therefore, receive no wage or a lesser wage than before. only the few that are able to review the work that is being done overseas or set the expectations will reap the benefits of globalization.

you might comeback and say, "well, with the extra money that the company has saved they can use that money for the employees." but if there aren't as many employees in the US as before the ones that are less will still earn less than if the workforce wasn't outsourced.


RE: Perhaps some new legislation is needed...
By TomZ on 3/20/2006 10:22:47 PM , Rating: 2
No, sorry, it doesn't work this way. Global economics is not zero sum. Our standard of living is determined by our own rate of productivity growth. International competition has nothing to do with it.


RE: Perhaps some new legislation is needed...
By mindless1 on 3/21/2006 5:04:16 AM , Rating: 2
Yes international competition most certainly DOES have everything to do with it. Everyone's standard of living does NOT go up. You are completely backwards. Standard of living determined by rate of growth REQUIRES the growth (obvious enough), by maintaining the workforce. By exporting it, the disparity in upper and lower class grows.

I'm not agaist Dell doing this though, it is only appropriate that the PCs soldl there be made there. On the other hand, the tech support and other misc services used by this country should stay here. Legislation could in fact cause this, it does "work this way" as that is exactly what legislation does- intends to promote changes or limits where there wouldn't be without.


RE: Perhaps some new legislation is needed...
By TomZ on 3/21/2006 8:37:18 AM , Rating: 2
Please educate yourself, and stop spreading misinformation on this topic:

http://www.swiss.ai.mit.edu/~rauch /misc/globalizat...

We've had globalization already for at least 100 years, and we still have a good standard of living in developed countries. If your assertion is correct, we would have been in trouble many years ago.


RE: Perhaps some new legislation is needed...
By amish on 3/21/2006 10:11:38 AM , Rating: 2
i would be happy to educate myself but the link you gave is bogus.

File not found

------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------

You've asked for a file that doesn't exist on this server. Most likely someone is pointing to an outdated link, or you made a typo if you entered the URL directly.

On October 4 1999, our site underwent a major reorganization. So one possibility is that the page you are trying to access no longer exists. Another possibility is that the reference was accidentally dropped during the reorganization; if you think that has happened, please send email to us at the address below.

Here are some common pages that people look for here:

The Project MAC home page has information about the Mathematics and Computation group at MIT.
The Amorphous Computing home page showcases our current primary research area.
The MIT Scheme home page has lots of information about the Scheme programming language.
If you're looking for MIT subject 6.805, look here.
If you're looking for something by Philip Greenspun, see the photo.net page.


RE: Perhaps some new legislation is needed...
By TomZ on 3/21/2006 10:12:49 AM , Rating: 2
RE: Perhaps some new legislation is needed...
By TomZ on 3/21/2006 10:14:36 AM , Rating: 2
There is a bug in dailytech's web site, that is mangling the link. Try this instead:

http://tinyurl.com/p9y5s


RE: Perhaps some new legislation is needed...
By amish on 3/21/2006 1:00:46 PM , Rating: 2
thanks! great read. i really want to get Veseth's book now.

best section that i thought was:
In practice, then, the trend in U.S. living standards is determined by our own rate of productivity growth -- full stop. International competition has nothing to do with it.

If that's the case, however, what does it mean when people talk about U.S. "competitiveness"?

The answer, sadly, is that it almost always means that they don't know what they are talking about.
--The Age of Diminished Expectations: U.S. Economic Policy in the 1990s

my question to you is, with jobs being outsourced, can the economy keep its previous production?

personaly, i would say no. with less workers making an income there is less currency stimulating the economy. equaling less of a demand for product, whether it be goods or services. with less, maybe negative, productivity growth our standard of living lessens. in the meantime i would believe that the other country would have growth because of the work arrangement. meaning that there is an equalization of income like i believed before.

granted, the outsourcing corporation can make up for a part of this with its increased spending from the money that has been saved. is the increased spending by the corporation equal to that of the worker's normal spending overall, it's hard to say.

now that i feel like i'm babbling, please let me know what you think. i would especially like to know how globalization is not a zero sum equation. thanks


RE: Perhaps some new legislation is needed...
By amish on 3/21/2006 2:12:30 PM , Rating: 2
screwed up the italics, d'oh.

should read:
thanks! great read. i really want to get Veseth's book now.

best section that i thought was:
In practice, then, the trend in U.S. living standards is determined by our own rate of productivity growth -- full stop. International competition has nothing to do with it.

If that's the case, however, what does it mean when people talk about U.S. "competitiveness"?

The answer, sadly, is that it almost always means that they don't know what they are talking about.
--The Age of Diminished Expectations: U.S. Economic Policy in the 1990s


my question to you is, with jobs being outsourced, can the economy keep its previous production?

personaly, i would say no. with less workers making an income there is less currency stimulating the economy. equaling less of a demand for product, whether it be goods or services. with less, maybe negative, productivity growth our standard of living lessens. in the meantime i would believe that the other country would have growth because of the work arrangement. meaning that there is an equalization of income like i believed before.

granted, the outsourcing corporation can make up for a part of this with its increased spending from the money that has been saved. is the increased spending by the corporation equal to that of the worker's normal spending overall, it's hard to say.

now that i feel like i'm babbling, please let me know what you think. i would especially like to know how globalization is not a zero sum equation. thanks


By TomZ on 3/21/2006 7:21:00 PM , Rating: 2
A quick explanation is that workers in developed countries take on more and more valuable jobs (productivity growth), while those jobs that are less valued get outsourced to other countries. In America, lots and lots of people were farmers long ago, and with the industrial revolution, people could create more value and get paid more by working in factories. Nowadays we create more value by becoming information workers.

So the win-win is that here we are developing more and more information worker jobs, and other countries are getting more of our manufacturing jobs. Information worker jobs are worth more, and thus pay more, than manufacturing jobs (certain unsustainable union situations notwithstanding). The countries that are picking up manufacturing jobs also win because instead of living in hard conditions working on a farm, they come to the city and work in the factories and make more money there (as happened here in the past). Finally, these manufactured goods are sold back to us here at a lower cost than before, thus allowing us to buy more per dollar and raise our standard of living a little more.

Of course, when you look at individuals, transition to "better" jobs may be difficult, and not everyone will move ahead like this. But I'm talking more general trends, when you average the experiences across an entire society.

Anyway, I realize this explanation is a bit anecdotal and simplistic, but I'm not really an economics professor. I guess my explanation is not too quick either, sorry.


By mindless1 on 3/22/2006 9:58:55 AM , Rating: 2
So digging up one link supporting your grand theory is end of story? Hardly. Globalization of services, not products, has most definitely NOT been going on for 100 years. The degree to which finished or raw goods have been globalized has not been at this scale either.

There is not "a good standard of living" in many developed countries unless you take a ver narrow view of what developed means. Which countries are you considering? How about China, since a ton of products come from there. What do you think the standard of living is outside of the major cities? Bet you haven't a clue.

We (US) have been in trouble many years ago. Ever heard of National Debt? Ever considered US citizens are now more in debt on average and working multiple jobs? What black hole are you living in that the obvious can't even escape?


RE: Perhaps some new legislation is needed...
By timmiser on 3/21/2006 4:40:07 AM , Rating: 2
Seemed to work pretty good against the Japanese automakers. They were sticking it to US made cars coming into Japan with extra high duties. We started doing the same to them and before you know it, Japanese cars are being built in the USA by USA workers!


RE: Perhaps some new legislation is needed...
By TomZ on 3/21/2006 10:12:01 AM , Rating: 2
No, that's not what happened! What happened is, once foreign automakers got a bit of market share, they realized that it would cost less to manufacture cars here, than to ship them from overseas. Shipping costs are high, and shipping times are long which negatively affects their logistics flexibility.


By timmiser on 3/21/2006 7:19:26 PM , Rating: 2
First of all, how can you totally discard the fact that duties would not have any impact on where it was more economical to build cars?

Do you know what the duty rate is on a new automobile made in Japan? Didn't think so.

Do you know that the duty rate from cars made in Japan is more than a duty rate of a car made in Europe is?

Your theory doesn't explain why most European cars sold in the USA are still made in Europe.


Your comments just don't make any sense.

1. American labor is/was more expensive than Japanese labor. (Which is why the duty rates are higher for made in Japan cars).
2. Shipping costs are lower per unit the more you ship and the more your market share increases contrary to what you claim.
3. It's 7 days to Seattle and 8 days to Long Beach from Japan. That's not much longer then American cars coming up from Mexico via rail.

The problem back in the 70's and 80's was the issue of fair trade which sparked the trade war. For example, a Ford Fairmont that sold in the USA for USD 10,000 was USD 40,000 at dealerships in Japan and that wasn't shipping costs!


outsource DELL
By lucyfek on 3/20/2006 5:57:08 PM , Rating: 2
the cure is simple:
built your own PC and provide support yourself
IT DOES WORK




RE: outsource DELL
By IceT on 3/20/2006 6:28:45 PM , Rating: 3
In addition, Dell would need to provide MORE TRAINING to those techies in India. Sometimes, it's not the staff but it's the insufficient training that leads to the overall decrease in tech support quality.

.Eric


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