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Michael Dell, Dell’s chairman and CEO.  (Source: Dell)
Dell takes steps to save $3B USD over the next three years

Dell is continuing its efforts to cut costs and an Austin, TX desktop manufacturing plant looks to be the latest victim. As is the case with many U.S.-based companies these days, Dell will cut jobs and rely even more on overseas manufacturing "to restore the competitive advantage of the company’s operating model."

The Austin plant closure is a part of a five-point Dell growth plan which will focus on global consumer, enterprise, notebooks, small and medium enterprise and emerging countries. By removing the Austin plant from its portfolio, Dell hopes to make a sizeable dent in the $3B in savings that it hopes to realize over the next three years.

"We believe we have a $3 billion opportunity to drive both productivity and efficiency," said Dell CEO Michael Dell. "We’ve analyzed the business and opportunity, so we know -- without question -- where our priorities should be. And as we’ve reignited growth in our business, we’re taking deliberate steps across the company to improve our competitive position."

Dell's insistence on reaching thing $3B figure will also come at the expense of 8,800 jobs. This is in addition to the 3,200 employees that were removed from the mix during fiscal 2008 -- 900 of which came as a result of a Canadian call center closure.

Other cost-saving measures that Dell has already taken include the closing of its 140 Dell Direct Store kiosks across the U.S. To make up for the loss of the kiosks, Dell expanded its presence in big box retailers like Wal-Mart and Staples.

"We expect that these actions, along with the continuing rigor we’re applying to operating expense control throughout our operations, will result in an improved, world-class cost structure," added Dell CFO Don Carty.

Despite the outsourcing and layoffs, Dell is moving along quite swiftly with product development. The company recently leaked its future notebook plans including the Latitude XT2 tablet and the Latitude E4200 and E4300 notebooks. The company also revealed a new, low-cost Blu-ray option for the Inspiron 1525 notebook.



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April Fools?
By kiwik on 4/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: April Fools?
By Techiedude37 on 4/1/2008 7:24:14 AM , Rating: 5
Wow. If this is true it's an incredibly sad sad story. We're at the cusp of another depression in this nation and Dell thinks it's a great time to dump another 8,800 poor souls into the unemployment line?


RE: April Fools?
By Durrr on 4/1/2008 7:34:30 AM , Rating: 2
either they do that, or the entire company goes down? that's what sucks about public companies, they're more or less not allowed to have a ton in cash reserves for economic slowdowns such as this.


RE: April Fools?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 4/1/2008 8:24:48 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft always keeps a nice big cash reserve :P


RE: April Fools?
By RamarC on 4/1/2008 9:14:23 AM , Rating: 2
one of dell's problems is its name doesn't have cachet and thus can't command a price premium. it seems only apple has been able to get the mindshare that allows them to set their own pricing regardless of competitive offerings.


RE: April Fools?
By paydirt on 4/1/2008 10:10:24 AM , Rating: 4
If the government took steps to prevent companies from cutting jobs and/or outsourcing (Dell is cutting worldwide, not outsourcing), this would only hurt the economy and workers as businesses would be reluctant to open plants in the U.S. over fear that the government would tie their hands.


RE: April Fools?
By UNCjigga on 4/1/2008 12:30:40 PM , Rating: 2
Dell doesn't give 2 sh*ts about Apple nor should they--they ARE very worried about HP and Lenovo, however. Both competitors rely almost exclusively on overseas manufacturing. The fact that Dell lost the #1 PC maker position to HP this year is the primary impetus for this decision.

Previously, Dell relied on their direct channel to cut costs and undercut retailers on price. But if look at the PCs for sale at Best Buy today and compare them with Dell's offerings, price is pretty much at parity. Even with a weak dollar, domestic PC manufacturing just isn't competitive anymore (especially with desktops that offer slimmer margins than notebooks.)


RE: April Fools?
By michael2k on 4/1/2008 2:33:54 PM , Rating: 2
I think you're wrong. Consider that Apple had $500m more profit than Dell, Dell is looking at Apple (as well as HP and Lenovo).

Direct channel is now everyone's tool, so Dell needs to look elsewhere. Retail distribution brings them up on par with HP, but they need to look at design (and thus the likes of Apple) to try to outdo HP...


RE: April Fools?
By Chadder007 on 4/1/2008 10:45:44 AM , Rating: 3
The entire company will go down anyway if there is no one left here with a job to purchase their products.


RE: April Fools?
By vladio on 4/1/2008 11:44:10 PM , Rating: 2
The entire company will go down anyway if there is no one left here with a job to purchase their products == 100%


RE: April Fools?
By ThisSpaceForRent on 4/1/2008 7:36:20 AM , Rating: 5
With the falling value of the dollar this doesn't make as much sense as it would have five years ago. Not to mention the increased logistical costs associated with over seas manufacturing. I can understand the need to cut jobs, being over-staffed is worse than being under-staffed, but I just don't think this will pay off how they want.


RE: April Fools?
By JustTom on 4/1/2008 1:47:54 PM , Rating: 2
Being understaffed is not inherently better than being overstaffed. Both cause losses. Understaffed companies either lose sales because supply does not meet demand or stress equipment and personnel to meet demand. A situation where a company is slightly overstaffed is often beneficial; it gives flexible to meet unforeseen events. And it is far easier to lay people off than it is to staff and train.


RE: April Fools?
By ThisSpaceForRent on 4/1/2008 4:41:16 PM , Rating: 2
I absolutely agree with you. One of the most memorable work experiences I ever had was when I was asked how we could improve productivity. My response was simply, and to the point, "hire more people".


RE: April Fools?
By rum on 4/1/2008 10:06:40 AM , Rating: 1
Don't we have to have 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth to be considered in a recession, and we haven't been there yet.

yes the credit and housing markets are somewhat in turmoil, but that is mainly of their own doing.

We are not near a depression, yet, but if the MSM keeps up their chanting about one, they could sure create something of one.

People need to look and see the markets aren't that bad, not what the MSM tells you.


RE: April Fools?
By RjBass on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: April Fools?
By JustTom on 4/1/2008 11:17:27 AM , Rating: 3
All leading economists? Hardly. All economists wouldn't agree on the color of the sky.

Do you even know what a recession is? Or a depression? Perhaps you should ask your fiance.

There has not been one quarter of negative growth let alone 2, and there certainly is not high unemployment or falling prices.

We are certainly in an economic downturn, which probably will lead to a recession but the chances of entering a depression are rather slim.


RE: April Fools?
By OxBow on 4/1/2008 11:55:03 AM , Rating: 2
It's obvious that we're in a very bad recession. Granted, the numbers for last quarter aren't out yet, but every measurement they're based on has been released and they all show up dreadfully negative. Most economists are projecting this to rival the recession of the late 70s, which I doubt many of you can remember.

Austin is going to have it bad with this. Although most of Texas was better insulated from the housing bubble, Austin was not, so they're already hurting. Drop 8,800 unemployed on the town (just about 1% of their permanent population) and it doesn't bode well at all.

There's no doubt a that you'll be seeing a whole lot of blues on Austin City Limits.


RE: April Fools?
By JustTom on 4/1/2008 1:42:45 PM , Rating: 2
``We are in a very sluggish economy that's barely growing at all, but it is not in a deep recession,'' said David Resler, chief economist at Nomura Securities International Inc. in New York. ``It looks nothing like a free-fall environment.''
Stern's View

``It's clear the economy is growing little if at all,'' Fed Bank of Minneapolis President Gary Stern said after a speech at the European Economics and Financial Centre in London on March 27. ``The consensus is that it could improve in the second half. But if headwinds pick up, it could be more subdued than that.''

I lived through the recession of the late 70's, and what is going on has little resemblance to then. In 1979 the misery index – inflation + unemployment stood at 17.07, in 1980 it was 20.76, and in 1981 it was 17.97; the index today stands at 8.83.


RE: April Fools?
By bpurkapi on 4/1/2008 2:39:40 PM , Rating: 2
There are definitely falling prices. Recently a news story was run on the willingness of big box stores to negotiate prices. I don't think we are that bad off, but certain sectors are freaking out. What worries me is the future of our economy, people have houses with less equity, cars that still chug gas, and debt up to their ears. These are all problematic. Factor in a weak dollar and rising prices for fuel, food, and education. The US economy is at a critical moment where things could easily move towards a recession. Global competition for jobs also makes getting out of a recession difficult.


RE: April Fools?
By omnicronx on 4/1/2008 11:34:36 AM , Rating: 2
Get your head of the dirt, just because some economists have predicted a full blown recession doesn't not mean it will happen, and it sure as hell has not hit that point as of yet.

Open your eyes are realize at best they are making an educated guess. They are wrong just as much as they are right and Most of the time you will have just as many people arguing against as for.

Don't get me wrong the economy is on a downslope, but its far from the 'get your head out of the sand, we are already in a major depression' that you are making it out to be.


RE: April Fools?
By rum on 4/1/2008 12:31:22 PM , Rating: 2
Wow get rated down because your so called economists and fiance say differently than I do??

Gee the economists I have read articles from say we aren't in a recession yet, and it would have to be a lot worse to hit a depression.

We aren't even close to the double digit inflation, gas lines, unemployment of the Carter Administration. NO WHERE NEAR IT.

I wouldn't be taking too much advice from your Fiance if she is claiming we are heading into a depression, when all our economic indicators are all better than they were in the late 70's during Carters Administration.

Yes I was around then, and I remember the gas lines and people complaining because gas hit 70 cents a gallon. Lets not forget the gas rationing and the heavy duty inflation that kept the economy down. People were just happy to have a job then.

It is sad to see another American company closing down shop in America to run to a foreign country to get cheaper labor, but that isn't a sign of recession it is a sign of greed, that started back during the Clinton administration of the 90's.

If you are going to talk doom and gloom, you should make sure that there is doom and gloom abounding about, and not political rhetoric from any side to get one side in power.


RE: April Fools?
By FITCamaro on 4/1/2008 2:26:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
including my fiance


Ah well that must make it true....my imaginary dog says we're not so does that count as much as her vote?

The fact is it has been shown that 90% of what determines what happens is what people are made to believe will happen. If the media makes people believe we are in a recession (as they're happy to do because bad news is good news), we'll likely go into one. If they don't, then we're less likely to. Breeding fear that everything is about to collapse will cause it to because everyone will stop doing things. I'm not saying to go out and take every risk you can, but I don't think people need to stop investing, stop shopping entirely, etc.

One thing that I do think could actually worsen things is the Democrats repealing the tax cuts. One because it means those of us who actually pay taxes will have less to spend. Two because it means we have less to invest. And three because it will also repeal some of the cuts on the capitol gains tax which further discourages investing.

People's votes will determine that though. So if you like getting less of your paycheck (or don't care because hey, you don't pay taxes anyway), vote for Obama, Hillary, and any other Democrat in favor of repealing the tax cuts.


RE: April Fools?
By Ringold on 4/2/2008 10:08:43 PM , Rating: 2
JustTom said everything I'd of said, so no point rehashing that. To JustTom: Democrats, liberals, and other extremists, unfortunately, are not interested in statistics, historical comparisons, or anything else -- unless it serves their purposes. :(

I got on the horn with my life-long Democrat mother earlier today, and mentioned the positive ADP jobs report for March; "I don't want to hear that right-wing propaganda."

quote:
The fact is it has been shown that 90% of what determines what happens is what people are made to believe will happen.


FIT, read this:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,343671,00.html

The power of the MSM is.. depressing. Those people have the OP eating out of the palm of their hand.


RE: April Fools?
By eye smite on 4/1/2008 3:28:20 PM , Rating: 1
I've made noise about this on DT before and was called narrow minded and racist and everything else. Why the hell is it so hard for Ameridcan companies to give America people jobs? They're just greedy as hell, you know Dell is making plenty of money, but they want more and they fluff it up by calling it a business decision. So here goes another 8800 jobs in the name of greed. If you suck so bad at making profit in an ethical manner, why the hell are they letting you run the company.


RE: April Fools?
By dever on 4/2/2008 3:17:54 PM , Rating: 3
I think you've "caught hell" because you make statements like this. Here are a few flaws in your statements.

1) Jobs aren't "given" away. It's not a lottary.

2) Greed is a stupid term that implies some moral superiority on your part. If Dell is excercising force or fraud to increase profits, this would be "greedy." If they are using fraud (which this is not), then they are doing something illegal and should be punished. As for force, this is a form of greed restricted to government use.

3) If you consider price as one of the determining factors of a purchase, such as a computer, then you are "greedy" by your definition, and have contributed as much toward laying off workers as the company management.

4) "making profit in an ethical manner" What? Is it ethical for the company to retain a few workers until the company fails and they all lose their jobs? Is it ethical to deny business owners the freedom to make basic business decisions?

5) The logical conclusion to your assinine assertions is some sort of communist or fascist regime where control over private industry is centralized. Why not visit Cuba... I hear you can use a computer now. You just can't afford to buy one because of too much "job security." Isn't government control grand?


RE: April Fools?
By SixDixonCider on 4/1/2008 7:43:12 AM , Rating: 2
It's gotta be an April Fools joke. everywhere else im reading 900 jobs. I live in Austin, and I have alot of friends who rely on thier jobs at both Austin and Round Rock locations. Although the pay and benefits are amazing, every Austinite knows there is no job security at Dell.


RE: April Fools?
By SixDixonCider on 4/1/2008 7:54:10 AM , Rating: 2
...I stand corrected. 900 locally. 8,800 globally.


RE: April Fools?
By FITCamaro on 4/1/2008 9:36:59 AM , Rating: 3
One day companies will wake up and realize that they've fired all the people who were supposed to buy their products and don't have any money to do so.

We are the world's biggest consumer. Laying us off means you won't make any money from us since we won't have any.


RE: April Fools?
By crystal clear on 4/1/2008 10:55:05 AM , Rating: 2
Employment holds the key to the U.S. economy because jobs mean paychecks, paychecks mean consumer spending, and spending accounts for about 70 percent of the economy.


RE: April Fools?
By UNCjigga on 4/1/2008 12:32:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
we are the world's biggest consumer
Nope, that's China and India now.


RE: April Fools?
By FITCamaro on 4/1/2008 2:16:01 PM , Rating: 2
Not yet they're not. They're the largest potential consumers. Lots of people does not mean they're all buying manufactured goods. The vast majority of people in India and China still live in poverty and buy only the essentials of life(food, clothing). Assuming they even buy those.


RE: April Fools?
By CorporateSlave on 4/5/2008 9:30:18 AM , Rating: 2
The truth about China? They manufacture most of our goods and they can get buy most of this cheaper than we can, either black market or otherwise.

Plus the relationship with China is changing. It used to
be us holding the hammer. Now, China is pulling strings.
That is why you see many companies looking for alternate
locations for manufacturing.


stock
By Chimpie on 4/1/2008 9:08:51 AM , Rating: 2
It will be interesting to see what their stock does today.




RE: stock
By Pneumothorax on 4/1/2008 9:27:32 AM , Rating: 2
It should go up. Wall St. LOVES layoffs


RE: stock
By darkpaw on 4/1/2008 9:50:43 AM , Rating: 2
Wall St. loves anything that will make the company more profitable next quarter. They don't give a rats ass about long term stability or the people involed as long as those quarterly numbers match what the "analysts" expect.


By crystal clear on 4/1/2008 9:34:55 AM , Rating: 4
Hidden behind all those announcements, its the sub prime crisis afterall-

SAN FRANCISCO -(Dow Jones)- Dell Inc. (DELL) said Monday it is "undertaking a strategic assessment of ownership alternatives" for its Dell Financial Services division, which has ties to a commercial lender snared by the subprime crisis.

Those alternatives range from selling the financial division, which is valued at about $1 billion, to not changing a thing, a Dell spokesman said.

Dell's actions highlight how the subprime crisis has begun to snare technology companies, which are more apt to have financial-services arms like Dell's in order to lend its customers money to help finance their deals. But as the credit crisis worsens, Dell, Microsoft Corp. (MSFT), telecommunications maker Avaya Inc. and others with similar arrangements face potentially similar reckonings.

For 11 years, Dell has contracted with New York-based commercial lender CIT Group Inc. (CIT) to provide its customers with loans to finance their Dell product purchases. About a tenth of Dell's sales last year involved CIT Group in some way. While Dell bought up CIT's share of the joint venture late last year, about $455 million of the current $2.1 billion Dell has loaned to its customers was underwritten by CIT.

CIT is now reeling under the weight of its investments in subprime mortgages. Last week, CIT's future was called into question after the lender said it had tapped a $7.3 billion line of credit in order to continue day-to-day operations through the end of the year.



http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf50...




By aos007 on 4/1/2008 12:01:27 PM , Rating: 2
Ah, so Dell is not able to get money to finance its operations. Perhaps their hand was forced and they didn't plan for their measures to be quite so drastic.


America Loosing Jobs
By Rokspidr1 on 4/1/2008 10:33:56 AM , Rating: 2
The downfall of the American job market began many years before any of us were alive. Unions, whether it is in Automobile business, trucking, or shipping, have caused the American economy to decline for many years. This along with our appetite for money at any cost. The automobile industry has driven, no pun intended, the American economy for decades. The control the Unions have over the Automobile assembly has caused revocable turmoil. Why does a person that is laid off from a union job still receive benefits for the rest of their life? The cost of this burden being placed on the BIG 3 motor companies is astronomical. Along with this, is the pay the union demands for someone to turn a wrench. Please don't misunderstand. I believe strongly a person should be compensated fully for the job they are performing.

The rising costs incurred by the BIG 3 are directly linked to their layoffs. Those layoffs are directly linked to other companies’ layoffs. And those layoffs are directly linked to the enormous inflation rates we have in this country and are not shared in other countries to the same degree. Opening our trade lines to other countries so freely has been the demise of what was once a great country. This act should have been handled completely different and in a more control fashion. How do we stop the world from taking over our country? It is up to us as proud intelligent Americans to do so. We need to stop always be thinking of how we can line our personal pockets, but also consider how we can line the pockets of our children and their children.




RE: America Loosing Jobs
By JustTom on 4/1/2008 11:37:04 AM , Rating: 2
You do realize the Great Depression was created by restrictive trade policies?

quote:
And those layoffs are directly linked to the enormous inflation rates we have in this country and are not shared in other countries to the same degree


The United States' inflation rate was 2.7% for 2007, which is hardly astronomical.

While union contracts have some of the blame for the decline of the American automobile industry perhaps, just perhaps, more of the blame should be placed on bad management, stale designs, and lack of vision.


Apple also doesn't make desktops here
By vision33r on 4/1/2008 11:26:17 AM , Rating: 2
Have you guys noticed that non of Apple's hardware is made in the USA anymore?

Dell is just following the same trend.

From iPods, iPhones, iMacs, all of them Made overseas in China or elsewhere that's got cheap labor and no Environment protection laws.




By TruthasIknowit on 4/4/2008 8:45:31 PM , Rating: 2
Good point. Surprised I have not heard anything about that in mainstream media.


Moving swiftly?
By aos007 on 4/1/2008 11:57:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Despite the outsourcing and layoffs, Dell is moving along quite swiftly with product development. The company recently leaked its future notebook plans including the Latitude XT2 tablet and the Latitude E4200 and E4300 notebooks. Despite the outsourcing and layoffs, Dell is moving along quite swiftly with product development. The company recently leaked its future notebook plans including the Latitude XT2 tablet and the Latitude E4200 and E4300 notebooks.


I think it's quite the opposite. Lattitude E seriers were first "leaked" in January and recently we found out that they are due in September - and that only tentatively. They aren't even sure they'll hit the target (e.g. roadmap mentions "target weight" instead of just "weight" - a long way from completion, I'd say). Looks like big-time catchup to me. It's like Dell has no idea what the market wants (especially high end market) and is reacting rather than proacting. I can't see how "quite swiftly" applies. Besides, with these layoffs there is bound to be an impact on timelines and we'll be lucky if E launches before US Thanksgiving.




RE: Moving swiftly?
By Sazar on 4/1/2008 2:55:01 PM , Rating: 2
Not quite true.

I have already seen pre-prod samples and they are quite snazzy and relatively light-weight compared to other similar products. I think when you see the features available, you'll be mildly surprised.

Also, they are supposed to drop for testing purposes in June/July, at least per their CFI people whom I work with. Ergo, I am not sure if it will slide to September, but I have a feeling that it may now be quite that long :)

There are definitely some things that the blackberry loving business travellers will CRAVE that no one else has.


By davidsco27 on 4/1/2008 10:04:22 AM , Rating: 2
Since the consumer has proven that quality doesn't matter (read, Buy's crappy HP and Emachines products) Dell knows that it can cut jobs, and quality, flood the market with it's products, as HP does, and increase sales, thus making their REAL concern happy, the stockholders




Dell....
By Gyres01 on 4/1/2008 10:55:43 AM , Rating: 2
No worries Dell....my ACER laptop and desktop work great.




No April Fools
By ogman on 4/1/2008 11:13:25 AM , Rating: 2
It's not April Fools, the story was out yesterday. It's also a very good reason not to buy from Dell (or any other company that does not support our economy). I closed my Dell account this morning.




19th Century
By Ananke on 4/1/2008 1:39:49 PM , Rating: 2
Back in the 19th century people were quite poor in general. That's why the communist revolution happen in Russia and China. Our felow government is trying to bring us back in the 19th century poverty again.
State economic legislation exists to direct economic development and resolve market system inadequacy. Completely free market economy existed for around 50 years in 16th century England - a time of poverty and wars, after that Europe abandoned the idea of non-regulated markets :)
Read history.




Americans need jobs
By crystal clear on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Americans need jobs
By napalmjack on 4/1/2008 8:46:46 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
They should approach the Govt to come up with a job protection plan.


I don't trust the government.


RE: Americans need jobs
By crystal clear on 4/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Americans need jobs
By BansheeX on 4/1/2008 10:08:57 AM , Rating: 3
Managed trade agreements, overregulation, minimum wage laws, labor unions, welfarism, bad government monetary policy, and big government spending makes this all possible, and you want more of it? You don't know a damn thing about history or economics.

Back in the late 19th century, we were pretty much free of all of these things, and in the same manner that Hong Kong exploded while China around it sputtered, we had something called the industrial revolution. At no point in our history was economic freedom, living wages, charity, and real growth greater in this country than during this period. Technology progressed unimpeded and cleaner technologies came faster as a result. Private property rights settled pollution disputes.

quote:
Blame it on the credit crunch or the low dollar or the economic slowdown or ultra high energy costs or cost of living or the recession & more.


But what brought those about? You're blaming symptoms rather than the actual policies that brought them about. You think this arose out of some freakish flaw in the free market? Try again. After the tech stocks collapsed in 2000, we needed a small recession then in order to purge the market of those excesses. But nobody wanted to take their medicine, so Federal reserve chairman Greenspan manipulated interest rates down to 1% for an entire year, setting off massive artificial demand and subsequent speculation in real estate to keep the economy "growing" (spending). This incentivized all the malinvestment and the shadiest of shady lending you abhor and set up the inevitable bust we're having now. The government empowered federal reserve is the arsonist with the firefighting duties, and you sit there and blame the market like some stupid socialist. Government involvement has done nothing but increase in the last thirty years, and you act like that's the solution?


RE: Americans need jobs
By crystal clear on 4/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Americans need jobs
By crystal clear on 4/1/2008 10:50:57 AM , Rating: 2
Add this to the comment-

* U.S. employers cut 63,000 jobs- Febuary according to Labor Department data released . That followed a loss of 22,000 jobs in January. December's job growth was only half as big as the government had earlier reported.


RE: Americans need jobs
By BansheeX on 4/1/2008 10:52:05 AM , Rating: 2
You act like the government has a magic wand to make everything better. You think forcibly appropriating money from someone else via taxes and then giving it back in the form of government wages solves anything? FDR tried that back in the great depression. It failed miserably.

The government borrowing or inflating destroys the value of existing savings (capital), and then they tax people's production via the income tax. Is it any wonder new jobs don't come along when no one has any money to start a business after the government takes or debases it?

Hello, Mcfly?

quote:
There has to be a solution to "jobs going overseas"-


Yeah, it's called letting the free market work and getting government small and confined to the things they should be doing. Government is the interloper, the leech. We are 50% socialist, and socialism DOESN'T WORK.


RE: Americans need jobs
By crystal clear on 4/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Americans need jobs
By BansheeX on 4/1/2008 1:39:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Companies like Dell etc exploit these millions of people in China/India, for their profits & at the same time send 8000+ Americans into unemployment.


China and India's middle classes are booming now as a result of a freer market. Their lives are improving leaps and bounds over previously miserable socialist systems. We can't even sell to ourselves anymore because we don't produce anything as a result of all the socialist blunders on our side that make American companies want to move production overseas in the first place. And while we have to borrow from them to go one these hatred-inciting misadventures in the middle east, they're investing and making deals all over the world.

Also, a decline in the dollar by definition makes the yuan appreciate relative to it. They will eventually be able to buy all of their own products which are currently going to subsidized, indebted Americans. The only exploitation being done is the master trickery by our government convincing them not to delink to our fading currency. We outsource Keynesian policies to their central banks and for a long time they've been buying into it.

quote:
Have you experienced poverty ?

Have you been homeless or starving ?


Of course no one wants poverty, but you're looking at programs for their objectives, and I'm looking at them from their results. Well-meaning government programs to help some almost always have the opposite result, because in order to get the money to help a few, they have to forcibly take money from others in order to give it to them. Not only is it morally corrupt, it is roundabout nonsense to create poverty while fighting it.

retend you didn't have an income tax, crystal. You suddenly became able to afford that second child you always wanted. You own our own small business and employ many people. Then I come to your house as a government official and tell you that there are poor people in the neighborhood and that the government has authorized me to take 33% of your yearly income and all luxuries you've worked hard to obtain in the name of stopping poverty (of course, some of that will go to my government income because stopping poverty is my job). I take your fancy food and replace it with rice and spam, because, after all, you can still sustain yourself on that. I take your TV, your computer, because selling those too could help feed a hungry person. All the sudden, you have to fire several of your employees to sustain your old lifestyle and support that second kid. If you don't, your child now has crappy eduction and might become a jobless bum himself as a result, especially after seeing the disincentive to work after what they did to you. See how socialism and coerced charity doesn't work now?


RE: Americans need jobs
By Ananke on 4/1/2008 1:48:18 PM , Rating: 2
Man, India is not and never been socialist, it is always been free market, recently also bacame democratic country.
China political system is totalitarian, but the economy is mixed - i.e. most businesses are free market agents. That's why the poverty at the streets.
Norway, Finland, and Sweden are very close to textbook socialism - now check which countries in the world have the best life standards.
I came form Europe, and I have seen a lot of political and economic regimes, please refer to historical facts, not what Hollywood propaganda. Hollywood is worse than Chinese brainwashing, really.


RE: Americans need jobs
By BansheeX on 4/1/2008 2:18:51 PM , Rating: 2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_I...

Go to 1950-1975. Socialist, well-meaning reforms had severe deleterious effects in India after they gained independence from British rule. Then they gravitated more to a free market and have been benefiting ever since.

And don't bring up freeloading European countries. They have no protection for that lifestyle and they benefit from medical and technological research done under free market systems, etc, etc.


RE: Americans need jobs
By TruthasIknowit on 4/4/2008 9:43:33 PM , Rating: 2
Everything comes at a price.

Sweden:
“As of 2007, total tax revenue was 47.8% of GDP, down from 49.1% 2006."
Income tax rates up to 56%; sales tax rates 6/12/25%
Unemployment between 4.5-20% (Depends on who you ask)

Finland:
Income tax rates between 9-32% sales tax 22%
Unemployment between 6.6-16% (Depends on who you ask)

Denmark:
Income tax rates between 38-59% sales tax 25%
"The income tax in Denmark ranges from 42.9% to 63% progressively" per another source.

(Per the Danish government the world's highest tax rate is "improving efficiency in the public administration and decreasing the number of immigrants and asylum seekers")

Look it up.


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