Print 26 comment(s) - last by SandmanWN.. on Nov 11 at 12:55 AM

Dell Venue Pro  (Source:
Dell to market mobile services to other businesses

Dell is taking dead aim at Research In Motion by making employees ditch the Blackberry maker's products in exchange for its own line of smartphones, The Wall Street Journal reports.

Initially, Dell's 25,000 employees will be offered the Windows Phone 7-powered Dell Venue Pro in exchange for their Blackberries. The company plans to support Android-based devices in the future, as well.

"Clearly in this decision we are competing with RIM, because we're kicking them out," Dell CFO Brian Gladden told WSJ. "We actually had a conversation last night around creating a site on eBay where we can actually sell these BlackBerry devices" that employees return.

The trade-in begins next week and is projected to save Dell 25 percent in mobile costs, mostly thanks to the elimination of Blackberry servers, Gladden said. Dell is in talks with T-Mobile, in hopes that the carrier will provide minutes and data in bulk each month, with any leftovers rolling over to the next month.

Dell employees who currently have work-issued Blackberries will be able to trade them in for Dell Venue Pros -- which is the WP7 twin of the Android-based "Thunder" -- with voice and data plans. Other employees will also be able to choose Dell phones, sans data.

In addition to its own employees, Dell also plans to begin offering its mobile solutions to other business clients. Setting up and managing networks has a much higher profit margin than selling companies the actual devices, so Gladden said he's open to selling non-Dell devices in the future. "I'm not sure I care as much about the devices as the services," he said. "There's a services opportunity that we think is even bigger."

Though most companies won't save as much as Dell, some businesses will certainly see savings thanks to the ability to cut out Blackberry servers, which are uniquely offered by RIM.

This is just another hurdle for RIM, which has seen its fair share of problems in the smartphone market. Its latest Blackberry devices have posted weak sales because of the lack of innovation, it has fought with Middle Eastern and Asian countries over privacy issues, and it is quickly losing marketshare to the beast known as Android. With the field getting even more crowded thanks to Windows Phone 7 -- and Microsoft generally doing well with the business crowd in the past -- RIM really needs to come up with a big play before it ends up going the way of Palm.

RIM was not available for comment.

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They are done...
By quiksilvr on 11/5/2010 8:47:10 AM , Rating: 3
I'm sorry, but Blackberry has dropped the ball too many times at too many critical points. Their OS is the biggest hurdle and they cannot get past the fact that people don't want to pay an extra $10 a month for their Blackberry Mail or Messenger with GMail and Google Talk available with essentially the same reliability for free.

RE: They are done...
By SandmanWN on 11/5/10, Rating: 0
RE: They are done...
By SandmanWN on 11/5/10, Rating: 0
RE: They are done...
By Souka on 11/5/2010 7:50:51 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, the end-2-end encryption is much that some countries don't want RIM used... why? cuz it's basically impossible (impratical) to read the emails being transmitted.

Windows Mobile and Android (which use ActiveSync for corp-Exchange email) is barely encrypted...quite "Easy" to read, especially by a government in power.

RE: They are done...
By retrospooty on 11/6/2010 10:39:28 AM , Rating: 2
They have this nice free thing called exchange activesync. Its costs zero extra and your company email works 100% of the time, assuming your mail server is running. It wortks 100% as well as BES, without BES in the way and you dont have to pay RIMM a cent. That is why Blackberry is doomed in the enterprise market.

Thier OS is 5 years behind everyone else in the market. Its ugly, non-intuitive and a pain in the ass to get anythig done on. That is why they are doomed in the consumer market.

The downward spiral has already started. Wait for it.

RE: They are done...
By SandmanWN on 11/6/2010 12:30:05 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah sure if you want your corp to have a barely encrypted messaging service where your company trade secrets can be intercepted and sold off to any competitor...

You keep talking about BES and end users. Obviously not the point of this transition by Dell. BIS is free for the end user.

And the 5 years behind stuff? Really? You are full of it.

RE: They are done...
By retrospooty on 11/6/2010 10:42:29 PM , Rating: 2
Adding a layer of encryption isnt s#$t - data can be intercepted and cracked by someone with talent. If you have the need for that type of security, mobile mail isnt for you, not with or without blackberry. If someone is trying to get your info and its worth enough money, they will send goons to club you on the head and grab your phone. Security on a mobile phone? LOL Its about convenience. YOur Blackberry security myth is ... just a myth.

Yes, 5 years behind. Have you used an iphone, android, or web OS device compared to your aged Blackberry? If you have you would know what I mean. The OS is decrepit, a hideous joke of inflexibility.

RE: They are done...
By SandmanWN on 11/7/2010 4:24:58 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah buddy, they just snap their fingers and the encryption disappears. lol you are clueless, my bad, talentless.

I have no idea what you are going on about with this 5 year number. You clearly have no idea what these OS's are made of to claim such a moronic statement. I am sure you are doing some idiotic comparison based on how fast menus change or some other ridiculous comparison. I've written apps for BB and Android. I find it no more difficult on either platform.

How in the world are you inconvenienced by having better security that protects your interests? You don't even have to configure anything. What is so inconvenient?

Mobile mail isn't for security minded people? What nobody came up with that line? Some nobody who spend their day text messaging their momma to bring them a coke down to the dungeon. Are you serious?

RE: They are done...
By retrospooty on 11/7/2010 7:25:23 PM , Rating: 2
LOL... your too much. I cant really argue that your comments arent true. They are... 5 years ago. Its just that the rest of the market caught up and then way surpassed RIMM.

Actually I spent 5 years working in the smartphone business for a major contract manufacturer that built and repaired Blackberries, Palms and several others. I have toured facilities where they are made and repaired, and have met with many key designers, both hardware and software. I have forgotten more about smartphones then you will ever know. I am now a sys admin for a mortgage company that has 500 users, most of which use mobile mail, myself included. You know jack about smartphones and their security. The fact that you think blackberries are secure proves it. Email itself isnt secure, but we all take those risks. The blackberry security myth is just a myth and a marketing tool.

Obviously you take your freegin phone very personally and think its good, so I will just say... Enjoy your dinosour.

RE: They are done...
By BuckinBottoms on 11/8/2010 12:02:29 AM , Rating: 2
common man, you don't have to embellish your credentials. You spent 5 years doing RMA tech support. Its a job for teenagers to gain soldering skills.

I'm glad you finally graduated to mid level IT job but sys admin is just a stepping stone. If you really understood the construct of a fortune 500 company you would know that already. I was doing sys admin work over a decade ago while leading a program group writing ColdFusion at the same time. You aren't impressing anyone with a jingle tag line about forgetting more than others know on a site like this.

Email not being secure versus your lines of communication not being secure is two totally different arguments. Your being obtuse and diverting the subject to obvious blanket statements doesn't make anything your debating any more true than when you started bumping your gums with that nonsense.

I don't take this personally. I take stupidity personally. For someone that doesn't understand point to point communication and encryption in the security world and would blindly toss them away so they can get an iPhone working on a corporate network there isn't much that can be said except for this...

I hope you make it to work on time tomorrow when your broken iPhone can't figure out what time to sound your alarm in the morning. Now that is dinosaur coding.

RE: They are done...
By SandmanWN on 11/8/2010 12:08:50 AM , Rating: 2
Bah, knew I should have checked the login on the living room laptop. Kids.

RE: They are done...
By retrospooty on 11/8/2010 7:29:04 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry, I dont own an iphone or any Apple products other than my wife's ipod shuffle. So its an ipod-in-law at best ;) I actually have a Pre. Great OS on lackluster hardware. The OS has tons of promise. Anyhow, I am done with your pissing contest. Lets just see how well RIMM fairs over the next few years as more and more companies realize they don't need to pay the $20 per month per user fee to get what MS gives away for free (doing the math thats $240k per year for a company of 1000 users) now, when you compare it to the competition which is 100% free the cost benefit added is obvious, the value added by BB is nil. On top of adding the monthly extra cost and the BES itself, you are now tied to crappy phones with outdated OS.

I stand behind this general summary from the posts above... If you think your Blackberry belongs in the year 2010, you dont know jack about smartphones. They are over. Their only chance in hell to survive is to dramatically re-vamp thier OS to a modern one, and drop the exorbitant user fees. More importantly they need to start supporting EAS like every other phone on the market. You are in the IT field so you know how slow it reacts. Obviously RIMM built up a massive business over the past decade from back when their offering was relevant. IT firms have already started to jump ship. Watch RIMMS sales over the next few years and let me know when your ready to face it.

RE: They are done...
By SandmanWN on 11/8/2010 12:36:36 PM , Rating: 2
You base your OS comments on how fast a menu opens. If you knew half of anything on how BB designs their phones you would realize the main reason for this is because BB doesn't push the chips in their phones to the limits of other phone manufactures. They intentionally downclock the same hardware to add stability and longevity to their phones. It has nothing to do with the OS you abysmal idiot.

There is nothing 100% free with the solution your talking about. You just switch from BES costs to additional device licenses on your server. The costs just jump from one table in your accounting software to another. You would know that if you actually handled corporate purchasing decisions.

RE: They are done...
By retrospooty on 11/8/2010 7:01:33 PM , Rating: 2
"You base your OS comments on how fast a menu opens"
Where did I say anything even remotely like that?

you abysmal idiot
For not saying anything remotely like what you assume above? What are you even talking about?

"There is nothing 100% free with the solution your talking about. You just switch from BES costs to additional device licenses on your server. The costs just jump from one table in your accounting software to another. You would know that if you actually handled corporate purchasing decisions. "

Actually, I do. I ordered 500 open licenses just a few onths when we migrated from Exchange 2003 to 2007. You dont know what you are talking about again. Its free with the licenses for domain users. If you had aBES, you still have to pay for thee domain/exchange licenses from MS. Its just adding additional cost.

Let me spell it out for you so your simple mind can grasp it, because you don't seem to be able to on your own.

EAS setup:
MS open license at X per user

BES setup
MS open license at X per user
+ $20 per user per month for nothing (BES)

You see how that works now? Cost = Cost. Cost+Cost where no value is added = you.

RE: They are done...
By SandmanWN on 11/11/2010 12:55:51 AM , Rating: 2
Your only complain thus far has been the speed of the OS. So I will repeat... your idiotic complaint boils down to how fast menus transition.

Second, the software license is free. I already said that. What don't you understand about MS license structures being split between user and hardware connections?

For someone who is supposed to be a sys admin, you lack a great deal of understanding about how MS has done business for the last decade or so.

Just call up MS and ask them if you are legit on the license front. You are going to get a definitive NO.

You still can't explain away the value added of security. Only an idiot of biblical proportions gives a null value to security. Only the King of all biblical idiots would do so on a corporate level just to save a buck through jr tech level assumptions that the security may some day be broken and you would rather just leave it wide open and dump three or four different devices will completely different security issues throughout their company.

RE: They are done...
By XZerg on 11/5/2010 9:22:15 AM , Rating: 2
Except that BB wears the crown when it comes to corporate world due to security and almost no downtime. Corporates would not touch Gmail, iCrap, ... with a 10ft pole, at least not in their current states. BB's $10 charge is most likely due to the security structure they have to maintain and also be up for 99.9999999999% of the time unlike Gmail or iCrap.

To a normal user the above is no big deal and that charge is pure B$ but corporates are more than willing to pay that premium if it means no downtime and security. This platform isn't designed so much for multimedia or "magic" requirements but business. Hence for BB to really compete against Android, iOS, WP7, ... they ought to create two separate OSes and maybe set of devices to cater to two different groups if they want to penetrate end-users market too.

RE: They are done...
By mcnabney on 11/5/2010 9:43:40 AM , Rating: 4
It isn't just the extra $10-15/mo per device for wireless service. They also have to have licensed BES servers. And FYI - RIM doesn't even have five-nines of reliability (99.999%).

RE: They are done...
By retrospooty on 11/6/2010 10:46:13 AM , Rating: 2
That and MS gives it away for free. You can get corp email, calender and contacts to sync for free using the built in exchange ectivesync that has worked since at least exchange 2003. There is no need to have BES - its 100% irrelevent. An extra cost, extra complication, extra potential thing to fail, and adds zero benefit over the free service that MS gives you already.

Why buy the BB cow when the milk is already free? On top of that their OS sucks.

RE: They are done...
By SandmanWN on 11/8/2010 12:40:32 PM , Rating: 2
Nothing is free. When it comes to adding more devices that directly communicate with the Exchange it adds device licenses to your cost structure.

RE: They are done...
By jah1subs on 11/5/2010 10:53:40 AM , Rating: 2
BB is still way ahead on device management. Also, I really like having a data stream that is compressed. In this era of growing use of caps and tiered data plans, data compression is worth money.

I use my BB with GMail and Google Talk because those are what my boss, the owner of this small IT consulting company set up originally. Also, as the outside sales guy, I use because that is what was set up originally.

So far, I know that the GMail Chat that is part of Google Talk is not reliable. I do not see all of the messages if I use it. GMail stores them all but it does not send all of his messages to me. If I install the Google Talk client on the company laptop, I seem to see all of the messages. BB/GT (Google Talk) works for what little I use it. I prefer to avoid doing much text with anything smaller than a laptop with a full sized keyboard.

Finally, I am unable to make GMail integrate properly with Outlook when using IE8 or Firefox. I am unable to make Gmail integrate properly with when using IE8 or Firefox. My boss uses Chrome and says that it all works. This reminds me of Microsoft 20 years ago when "DOS ain't done until Lotus won't run!" One of these days I will take extra time to figure out if I can make all of this work the way that it works for my boss. If I find that it does, then all I can say is that in Google's efforts to be a monopolist, "Chrome (and Chrome OS) ain't done until Outlook and IE won't run."

If I experience this, then Google is the new Microsoft and needs to learn about what it means to be a monopoly!!

RE: They are done...
By ninjaquick on 11/5/2010 12:36:03 PM , Rating: 1
I read:

BB is way ahead in [something I don't care about, plus is entirely untrue] Also, I really like [something poor people like and actually is just a waste of hardware resources].

[QQ bout boss's IT decisions that don't work because this poor chap owns a crappy phone and isn't willing to adhere to the company's IT standard browser]

[Somehow Outlook depends on IE8 or Firefox, wait no it doesn't. OWA does, but not Outlook] and [Lotus, this guy mentioned lotus as if it were good. I should stop reading]

[Google is inherently evil]

RE: They are done...
By retrospooty on 11/6/2010 10:53:35 AM , Rating: 2
"Except that BB wears the crown when it comes to corporate world due to security and almost no downtime."

What? LOL

YOu know, if you remove that BES from being hte middleman between exchange and mobile phones, and stop paying for teh service it works just as well with exchange activesync, and also it works on all other phones, nut just blackberries.

7 years ago, your comment was true, and RIMM got huge. Its just not needed today at all. The only thing that sustains thier business is the previous market penetration from when thier service was relevant 7 years ago.

RE: They are done...
By SandmanWN on 11/6/2010 12:37:25 PM , Rating: 2
What? What? LOL

So you disproved absolutely nothing about his security point... All you indicated is that you can open your services to more phones by removing the added security, well duh! But you are ignoring the obvious consequences of removing security from a business perspective and then dumping more devices you have to keep secure in your environment.

Its not all peaches and cream out there. You are living in the fantasy land of a care-free end user with irrelevant data. Good thing you don't control the messaging systems of any corps with trade secrets and money on the line. Poor bastards would be in for an ugly surprise.

RE: They are done...
By Klober on 11/8/2010 9:24:26 AM , Rating: 2
Gmail has the same uptime as BB in my experience. I've been using Gmail since 2004 (my earliest emails are from 10/22/04) and I have used it on a daily basis ever since I got it - not once has Gmail ever been down when I tried to access it in over 6 years.

As for your second paragraph, I'm not sure penetrating end-users is pertinent to this discussion. ;)

This is major breaking news?
By Fritzr on 11/5/2010 6:00:13 PM , Rating: 2
Dell will bring to market a Dell branded smartphone.

Dell gives Dell employees a tradein program that allows them to exchange the competition's handset for a Dell handset.

Dell issues a Press Release saying that Dell encourages Dell employees to use Dell products and will offer an incentive to switch to the new Dell product when it is released.

In general terms employees are being asked to demonstrate loyalty to the company that employs them. The company will support this effort by converting corporate services to Dell where-ever Dell has a product for the purpose.

This has been a common practice in most industries for years. How many non-Fords do you see in a Ford employee parking lot? Do Coca-Cola bottlers stock other brands for their employees? How would it look for a Coca-Cola manager to publicly show a preference for Pepsi? Better question; How long do you think it would take to process that Coca-Cola manager's termination of employment after that outing? :P

RE: This is major breaking news?
By SandmanWN on 11/7/2010 4:31:12 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, bid shocker here.
Next weeks news...
LG employees must have an LG phone.
Followed by...
Samsung employees must have a samsung phone.
Nokia employees must have a Nokia phone.
Google employees must have ...
... must have ...

In the grand scheme of things it means next to nothing.

"The whole principle [of censorship] is wrong. It's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't have steak." -- Robert Heinlein

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