backtop

Print 39 comment(s) - last by Shwanzig.. on Dec 23 at 12:41 AM

Dell Latitude XT  (Source: Dell)

Lenovo X61 Tablet

ThinkPad X61 Tablet configured on Lenovo's website
Dell says "no fair" when it comes to mocking the Latitude XT's base price

When Dell launched its Latitude XT Tablet PC last week, the announcement was far overshadowed by the device's price tag: $2,499.

The web let out a collective gasp and more than few eyes rolled at the fact that $2,499 was just the base price of the device and not a fully decked out system. Direct2Dell's posting on the new Latitude XT garnered 120 comments -- most of them were of people laughing at the price tag and Dell's audacity to price the device so high.

Dell heard all of the complaints and posted a new entry on the Direct2Dell blog site to tackle the issue head on. Glenn Keels, Dell's Senior Manager for the Commercial Products Team, made light of the Latitude XT's mockery around the web and jokingly referred to Crunchgear's "Dell tablet is officially announced, officially expensive" news posting on the Tablet PC.

Keels, however, quickly got down to business and defended the Capacitive Touch-capable Latitude XT.

"So here's what I have to say on the issue. Probably the most important thing to note about tablet PCs is that we are talking about cutting-edge technology here," said Keels. "If we just released the exact same technology as our competitors, we would be missing opportunities to drive this market to the next level - and this is an opportunity we did not want to miss. The result is that our product does carry a slight premium to our competition (emphasis on the word 'slight')."

Keels then posted a quick comparison table comparing the Latitude XT to the HP 2710p and Lenovo X61t. The table shows where the Latitude XT shines over its competition: higher screen brightness, ATI graphics adapter, slight thinner dimensions and slightly lighter weight. The table, however, leaves out the processor, memory, HDD and choice of operating system among the systems.

Keels went on to say, "I found was that when you adjust for non-standard features such as Dell's standard 3 year standard warranty, the overall price delta was between 8-13%."

$2,499 gets you a Latitude XT with a 1.06GHz Core 2 Solo ULV U2100 processor, 1GB of RAM, a 40GB 4200 RPM HDD, a 4-cell battery and 3-year on-site warranty.

Going to Lenovo's website, the X61 Tablet's base price is $1,518. That price gets you a 1.6GHz Core 2 Duo L7500 LV processor, 1GB of RAM, 80GB 5400 RPM HDD, a 4-cell battery and Windows Vista Business. Springing for a MultiView + MultiTouch monitor, Bluetooth, 802.11n and a 3-year on-site warranty brought the price to $1,848.75 -- so much for the 8-13% price difference between the systems.

Keels counters though with this tidbit; "Like I mentioned before, capacitive touch is key. While both Dell and Lenovo offer touch capabilities, it's all about the technology. Dell outperforms Lenovo in customer preference testing, response times and outshines the X61t with our responsive digitizer providing a more accurate experience with fewer false touches and greater durability."

Only time will tell how consumers respond to Dell's Latitude XT in comparison to its competitors.

Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled
Tablet PC's haven't taken off for good reasons
By ChronoReverse on 12/18/2007 10:22:28 PM , Rating: 2
One reason is really high prices for the hardware.




RE: Tablet PC's haven't taken off for good reasons
By amanojaku on 12/18/2007 10:38:12 PM , Rating: 3
Tablet PCs are more difficult to design than notebooks, but it looks like Dell is charging nearly $1,000 more. For what? A tablet is basically a notebook with a swivel hinge, a touch screen, and handwriting recognition software. And when you take into consideration the modest components something doesn't add up.


RE: Tablet PC's haven't taken off for good reasons
By sprockkets on 12/18/2007 10:50:41 PM , Rating: 4
makes up for all the underpriced $399 laptops they sell


RE: Tablet PC's haven't taken off for good reasons
By Tsuwamono on 12/19/07, Rating: -1
By retrospooty on 12/19/2007 6:33:27 PM , Rating: 1
check here daily. You will see it all the time. Right now there is a Vostro 1000 with 15" LCD for $449. There are new deals constantly and some of them are even better.

http://www.cheapstingybargains.com/cheapster/dell/


By Chadder007 on 12/18/2007 10:50:53 PM , Rating: 2
That, the lower voltage (and slower) processors and Vista has Tablet capabilities built in.....WTF is up with the pricing. This is a fiasco.


RE: Tablet PC's haven't taken off for good reasons
By Lonyo on 12/18/2007 10:59:50 PM , Rating: 2
I'm surprised at what Lenovo are offering. Their pricing is actually incredible.
For $1450 from Newegg you can get a thin/light notebook with a slightly larger hard drive and slightly slower processor, 11" screen, and 0.4lbs lighter (3.4lbs total weight)than the Lenovo. But that's for a regular laptop, not a tablet.
The Lenovo with Multi-touch is only $150 more expensive, or barely $50 without multi-touch. Compared to a standard non-touchscreen thin and light notebook!

Basically the only premium you are paying on the Lenovo is for a touch screen, you're not even really paying for the swivel hinge design!


By m0mentary on 12/19/2007 12:36:13 AM , Rating: 2
thats what I was thinking. In light of this information, Lenovo's tablet seems like a stellar deal compared to Dell's. Wonder if lenovo will see an increase in units sold.


RE: Tablet PC's haven't taken off for good reasons
By Oscarine on 12/18/2007 11:07:48 PM , Rating: 2
I got my X61t during one of Lenovo's coupons (which are offered quite often) for around 1500$s with a 1.6ghz LV, Multi-Touch, 100GB HDD, 2GB Ram, WWAN (Cellular), extended battery, and Fingerprint ID.

Tablets aren't very expensive especially considering most are in the Ultraportable weight class. Compare it to other Ultraportables, or at least high end thin and lights, not some 399$ Acer Celeron.

I'd consider the Dell, the X61t's screen is pretty dim, and weight is always a factor for something your generally trying to use while its in your hand.

Oh yeah try using a 6-7lb laptop in the palm of your hand with the screen open... tablets are built for different uses than your typical system.


By Oscarine on 12/18/2007 11:08:57 PM , Rating: 2

On another note, try taking a tablet to a meeting using One Note, its eye opening how much more productive I am at work now.


By SectionEight on 12/19/2007 3:29:09 PM , Rating: 2
I have a X61t; I paid as much for it with several upgrades, the dock, a spare power adapter, carrying case, tax and shipping as the base Dell system. Worth every penny, and then some. This summer it's getting a SSD so I can use it while in the field. The screen (MultiTouch) is viewable in direct sun at max brightness.


Considering...
By Comdrpopnfresh on 12/18/2007 10:54:06 PM , Rating: 4
...Dell's computers can be run over by self-built ones costing half the price... It is overpriced. But people buy Dells for the service warranty- they're good at getting things fixed. I wouldn't say their hardware is any more reliable than self-built however. They're simply capitalizing on a product that people just can't go out and build- a laptop-tablet. Free economy- if it is truly overpriced, people won't buy it- prices are set at perceived value the consumer has, not a true cost of the manufacturer.




RE: Considering...
By grath on 12/18/2007 11:22:29 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
they're good at getting things fixed. I wouldn't say their hardware is any more reliable than self-built however


In my experience its always been significantly less reliable. Thats how they got so good at fixing things, not out of excellence but out of necessity.

Dells profitability is based in large part on economy of scale. They know the market for these is relatively small, so they dont produce them in numbers comparable to their mainstream models, as a result they cant cut costs like they usually do, hence higher price which keeps the market smaller. Its a nasty feedback loop in that way.


RE: Considering...
By SiliconAddict on 12/19/2007 12:09:14 AM , Rating: 2
To be fair the new xx30's are MUCH more reliable. Since the introduction of the 1330 and now the 1530 I've seen a marked decrease in repairs on these devices. I do Dell warranty work so I kinda know what is going on. I would say maybe a couple a week vs god knows how many of their other Inspirons\XPS's. That being said its early in their life cycle. Lets see what happens in fall of '08.


RE: Considering...
By HaZaRd2K6 on 12/19/2007 12:39:24 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
prices are set at perceived value the consumer has, not a true cost of the manufacturer.


Ain't that the truth? Whenever people ask "How much is this worth?" at work, I just want to tell them it's worth as much as they'll pay for it. Price and worth are two completely different concepts.


Duh!!
By Alexstarfire on 12/18/2007 11:36:24 PM , Rating: 2
Anyone else read the title and just think "WELL DUH!" What did they think Dell was gonna do? Say, "We feel that even though it costs less to produce that our products are so superior that we are going to make you pay more just because it has the Dell logo on it." They'd be the worst company in history if they didn't defend their price point.




RE: Duh!!
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 12/18/2007 11:38:46 PM , Rating: 2
They could have done what most companies would have done: not say a word.


RE: Duh!!
By MatthiasF on 12/19/2007 12:34:35 PM , Rating: 2
In a new world where blog articles and their comments come up in model research, they had to respond to the accusations especially since they were on their own site.

Their competitors haven't made sites like Direct2Dell, so the trouble is of their own making.


RE: Duh!!
By rcsinfo on 12/19/2007 12:20:17 AM , Rating: 4
What I don't understand is why Mr. Keels had to throw out the part about the 8-13% price difference. Anyone can go to HP and Lenovo's website and see thats just not true. The author already priced the Lenovo, and a quick check of HP shows a tablet with almost the exact same specs as the Dell for $1600.

He could of just left it with his statement about screen type, weight, thickness, and GPU. You could certainly debate the whether the value of those features is worth that much money, but its a matter of personal choice.

This guy need to learn better marketing. Opinions can only be debated, facts can be disproved. Don't give out hard numbers if they are way wrong, it weakens your overall argument considerably.


By GeorgeOrwell on 12/18/2007 11:26:46 PM , Rating: 1
Part of product management is to assess what customers really need vs. putting in expensive technology that no one is really using and/or not enough people really value.

Capacitive touch may actually work somewhat better. But it is probably not what contributes to the perceived value of a tablet computer, except to a small subset of tablet users.

Take out the capacitive screen and ask, "Could this product be priced at a $1500 base vs. $2500 base?". That is a real product management question.

From Dell's response it is hard to say exactly what is driving up the price so much. If it is not the screen, what is it? The Dell dude didn't give any real data.

Perhaps the most glaring product management question that has not been answered is "why is Dell even addressing this niche market?". Dell is not a company that is built to address niche markets.

Out of all the things Dell needs to be doing to recapture market share from HP, "building an expensive tablet computer for a niche market" is probably not near the top of the list. In fact, it is probably not on the list.

Sounds like Dell needs to stop hiring fresh out of school MBA morons that think making the Microsoft rep happy is going to work out well for them. That's not how Microsoft works. They will gladly let you kill yourself as long as they get what they want.

No, Dell dude, you are just a tool, a stupid dupe who should go work for Starbucks. If you don't understand the company you work for, don't understand the market, and maybe don't have enough brainpower to do your job, go somewhere else.

You will probably be far happier giving your venti latte customers some fake "we gonna be friends" banter than straining your brain trying to figure out what that phrase 'innovate or die' means. A clue: it doesn't mean, "build in features that customers don't care about, bump up the price by 67%, and then lie about the price being reasonable".




By SiliconAddict on 12/19/2007 12:26:06 AM , Rating: 2
Dell is probably making the Tablet to counter an HP offering. Its a market segment that is an unknown when it comes to the future. The market could easily take off if MS could get their head out of their ass and make a tablet OS that was designed around tablet features instead of slapping on a bunch of CAB files onto Windows with various tacked on features and calling it Windows blah Tablet PC Edition. However to be fair they have gotten a hell of a lot better with Vista. XP's integration of tablet features are horrid.


By phreaqe on 12/19/2007 8:25:57 AM , Rating: 2
wow, did microsoft abuse your children or something? i think you need to stop drinking the hateraide and just relax a little bit with you hate for microsoft. blindly hating something like you do makes it hard to take any argument you make whether it has merit or not seriously.


By NARC4457 on 12/19/2007 1:18:59 PM , Rating: 3
You had some good points in there that are entirely overshadowed by your vitriolic response.

Too bad, because it could have made for a good discussion.


No the real reason is...
By SiliconAddict on 12/19/2007 12:04:21 AM , Rating: 3
Its all about the gotta have it tax. Similar to the Apple tax but on the PC side of things. Give it 2-6 months. The price WILL drop.
Frankly though I'm disappointed. I don't care how good the touch screen is. I don't need uber specs on a tablet, and to be fair battery life IS important for me on a tablet but if you are giving me neutered specs I expect a somewhat neutered price to follow. The max I would be willing to drop on a system like that would be about 1,700 MAYBE....just maybe 2K if it really was a tempting device....but this isn't THAT tempting.




RE: No the real reason is...
By GeorgeOrwell on 12/19/2007 12:39:46 AM , Rating: 1
Microsoft's tablet computers have already been out a long time. The lack of adoption has proven that these Microsoft tablet computers mostly suck. The Dell tablet is nothing new.

So the Dell tablet tax is not "gotta have it", but "will pay to have it up the ass".

Maybe Dell would be more successful in the latter market if they made the tablet out of aluminum and rounded the corners.


RE: No the real reason is...
By SiliconAddict on 12/19/2007 1:32:45 AM , Rating: 2
First off they aren't Microsoft's tablet computers. Last time I checked MS has never made the hardware...the point being is implementation has been all over the damn board. I was AT the launch of the tablet PC. I got to handle some of the first Tablets based around the XP-TPCE.
They have come a long way but the simple fact is MS has done a poor job implementing the pen interface. You want the tablet to take off? Get the damn OS right.
As for WHY they priced it as they did....your comment doesn't even make a point. If you are going to be an ass at least make a point about why the price is so high.
This is Dell's first jump into the tablet PC arena. They are hoping that the people out there that are Tablet PC enthusiasts will hop on this device and eat some of the R&D expenses before they drop it. Its a guess but its damn better then "have it up the ass."


RE: No the real reason is...
By GeorgeOrwell on 12/19/2007 7:18:09 AM , Rating: 1
They are indeed Microsoft tablet computers. They come with Microsoft's tablet OS. No other tablet OS is supported by Dell. The machines themselves are designed to Microsoft specs for the tablet technology and for the base OS as well.

I made a point in my other post about the price. In short, poor product management resulted in the inclusion of features that most users do not place a high value on (i.e. the capacitive touch) and that Dell had not explained what else they did to warrant such a high price.

It may have nothing to do with Dell's costs, but more Dell's economic model -- i.e.they see that the demand elasticity will be so low that there is no point in reducing the price as there will be no correspondent increase in volume.

And that is the true story of Microsoft tablet computers -- there is no sizable demand. This lack of demand is due to Microsoft itself. Because, as you said, the Microsoft tablet OS is a pile of shit and delivers no compelling value to the market.

Dell deciding to sell a tablet computer means nothing much. Many vendors have been selling tablet computers for years. It's not like Dell spends ANY money on R&D as Dell does not even make its own notebooks/tablets.

Paying a big price premium for a mediocre Dell tablet computer, well that is what I mean by paying to "have it up the ass". I cannot see how paying so much money to "have it up the ass" is preferable to just letting the Microsoft tablet market die to make room for something better.


Just stunned
By creathir on 12/18/2007 11:11:18 PM , Rating: 2
I am a huge fan of Dell in the mobile market, and feel that from a corporate standpoint, you cannot go wrong with them.

I have been BEGGING my executive account rep for YEARS for a Latitude Tablet. The offerings from everyone else just have not cut it in the past (namely, the plastic materials they are made of) and in a corporate setting, a tablet is perfect for notes and the like.

Along comes news of the XT, and I was just thrilled this thing was coming out, and could not wait to hear the costs.

Now that I have seen them, I am less than impressed. The fact that I have a ZERO percent discount off MSRP for our company being such a loyal customer (usually we get around 36-30% off due to our volume) also is aggrivating.

Maybe someday Dell will get the idea that a $4000 under powered tablet might be just a tad too much.

Dell, let me rephrase my request:
Can you guys bring out a tablet that at least COMPETES with your normal notebook offerings? Heck, even within the same $1000 would be nice.

I can get 4 Latitude 630s speced FASTER than a single decked out XT.

Something is wrong there.

- Creathir




RE: Just stunned
By SiliconAddict on 12/19/2007 12:30:59 AM , Rating: 2
Lets see your 630's (Which by the way suck hard...Alps....gah.) get 11 hours of battery life. About 40% of the attraction of the XT is its battery life.
The tablet was NOT designed to be high speed. It was designed around a single purpose. You aren't intended to use this thing to rip video.
Whether that warrants over 2 grand....that is another matter.


Dell
By Haltech on 12/18/2007 10:48:54 PM , Rating: 3
dude, your getting a really expensive Dell.




Latitude Series
By stburke on 12/18/2007 10:56:58 PM , Rating: 2
I've been using a D820 for about a year and a half now and I must say it is by far the best laptop I have owned. I know the predecessors were a little awkward but lately I would buy anything Latitude and hope my school's laptop program (UND Aerospace) will opt for these next go'round.




sweet jesus...
By Gul Westfale on 12/18/2007 11:08:19 PM , Rating: 2
... $2500 for a core solo and a 4-cell battery? given dell's policy of overcharging for every hardware change (such as charging the full price of a 300GB hard drive when you wanna specify your system with a 300GB drive instead of a 160GB one), what does the core duo model cost? eleventy billion?




2710p does have the same screen.
By davepermen on 12/19/2007 2:31:14 AM , Rating: 2
It's a capacitive screen, too. It has great performance and works very well. And you can buy it for about 2000$ on the HP homepage, don't know about retail in America. and this is for more clock, more memory, more storage.

small technology isn't cheap. ULV aren't cheap. special manufacturing isn't cheap. But actually, the 2710p gives about the same, with similar technology, for a much lower price. AND IT ACTUALLY LOOKS NICE!!

People don't react with "ugh, that thing is expensive" when I tell them the price, no, they say they like it for that price. That ugly dell would get no credit from anyone, making a very bad advertising.

But I'm still interested to see one, to "see the difference". But I guess I'll love my 2710p even more, then.

especially, as, for the price difference of the dell, I'll soon get a nice 64gb SSD, or something, making my notebook outperform the dell in yet another aspect.




How Does It Really Compare
By kelmon on 12/19/2007 3:31:27 AM , Rating: 2
Honestly, given that I'm a Mac-owner and hate Dell's, I didn't really see myself writing this but I have to ask the question:

How does the XT compare to the competition in the real-world?

Shockingly, I don't mind paying a higher price if the results are worth it so I'm prepared to give Dell the benefit of the doubt until the reviews are in. If the areas that Dell are claiming that they are innovating in do indeed make a big difference to the overall user experience then all will be forgiven. Given that they know they have significant competition from the likes of HP and Lenovo I can't imagine that they'd be stupid enough to release a product at a high uncompetitive price if the performance is comparable. Mind you, Dell's not been doing particularly well in recent years and there has to be a reason for that.

Mind you, looking at the base specification, $2500 sounds like a heck of a lot of money for such a low-end specification so the screen had better be worth the premium.




Internal Politics?
By czarchazm on 12/19/2007 6:24:47 AM , Rating: 2
I may be shooting in the dark, but this offering and its price could have something to do with internal politics. Perhaps a few power players were pushing to release this offering, and upper management couldn't shut them up without releasing. And with the general lack of details and relatively poor explanation, it is possible that this could be the case.

On the other hand, it is possible that Dell is having to pay horrendous royalties for this capacitive touch-screen technology because someone else got there first and made a business deal with the supplier.

Time will tell, I suppose. Good luck to those who can use a Tablet.

Czarchazm




What is...
By Quiescent on 12/19/2007 9:30:12 AM , Rating: 2
Keels counters though with this tidbit; "Like I mentioned before, capacitive touch is key. While both Dell and Lenovo offer touch capabilities, it's all about the technology. Dell outperforms Lenovo in customer preference testing, response times and outshines the X61t with our responsive digitizer providing a more accurate experience with fewer false touches and greater durability."

I can understand this. However, what is the difference in technology that makes this possible? And why is it so much more expensive than HP's technology for touch screens?




capacitive touch?
By zinc99 on 12/19/2007 11:04:00 PM , Rating: 2
capacitive touch, come on... just dont rest your hand on the screen while writing or your pointer will go elsewhere.




Oh wow..
By Shwanzig on 12/23/07, Rating: 0
"It seems as though my state-funded math degree has failed me. Let the lashings commence." -- DailyTech Editor-in-Chief Kristopher Kubicki











botimage
Copyright 2012 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki