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An artist's conception of Nakheel's new development complex  (Source: UK Sun)

Nakheel Towers itself.  (Source: UK Sun)
Yet Middle-East neighbors race to announce even taller buildings.

A Dubai development group has released plans for a colossal skyscraper over a full kilometer in height. The building, dubbed Nakheel Towers after its developer, will be the centerpiece of a new harbor development which Nakheel hopes will become the nation's new “unofficial” capital.

With the current record holder, the 2700-foot tall Burj Dubai, nearing completion nearby, this new structure would dwarf it by more than 600 feet. The building will have over 200 floors and 150 elevators. Special high-speed elevators will be fast enough to allow residents to view a sunset twice an evening: once from the bottom, and again from the top floor. The air temperature at the top floor could be as much as 18 degrees cooler than at ground level.

The entire complex will be home to some 55,000 people, a workplace for 45,000 more, as well as hosting art and cultural developments.

Speaking at a press conference in Dubai yesterday, Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem, president of Nakheel holding company Dubai World, said the entire project will cost some $38B. "There is nothing like it in Dubai", he said.

Nakheel CEO Chris O'Donnell said he is confident that, despite troubled world financial markets, the firm will have no trouble raising the $5B/year the project requires. O'Donnell said, "when you go about trying to fund a project like this, you have to account for the economic cycles".

Nakheel currently has $60B worth of projects under construction.

Ground breaking has already commenced on the complex according to bin Sulayem. In addition to Nakheel Tower and the harbor development, some 40 smaller skyscrapers ranging up to 90 stories will also be constructed. The complex will be built in phases, and is due for completion in 2019.

The design is said to be inspired by various icons of Islamic architecture, such as Egypt's Alexandria harbor, the Alhambra in Spain, and the palaces and bridges of Esfahan in Iran.

But even as the announcement was made, rumors of a far larger building -- to be built in Saudi Arabia -- began to swirl. The competitor, said to be in pre-planning by Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal's Kingdom Holding, may be as much as a mile high, nearly twice as tall as Burj Dubai. The building's site would be in the Red Sea port of Jeddah, in Saudi Arabia

The nation of Kuwait is also working on plans for its own kilometer-high skyscraper, the Burj Mubarak.

Nakheel previously constructed the Palm Islands, a group of artificial islands off the coast of Dubai, built in the shape of a palm tree, as well as ”The World”, an artificial archipelago built in the shape of the planet Earth.

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What's the point?
By Rob94hawk on 10/6/2008 11:44:58 AM , Rating: 4
The US needs to stop buying foreign oil and start drilling for our own. We're funding everyone else's economy except our own.




RE: What's the point?
By Indianapolis on 10/6/2008 11:48:49 AM , Rating: 2
Hey, didn't you hear that drilling for oil is the equivalent of RAPING the planet? You aren't for rape are you?


RE: What's the point?
By FITCamaro on 10/6/2008 12:00:38 PM , Rating: 5
Yes.


RE: What's the point?
By Gul Westfale on 10/6/08, Rating: -1
RE: What's the point?
By crleap on 10/6/2008 12:36:25 PM , Rating: 5
we could build something bigger than that.
of course someone would fly a plane into it...


RE: What's the point?
By Gul Westfale on 10/6/2008 12:41:19 PM , Rating: 4
hahahahahahahahahahaaa

i knew someone would say it, but it still made me laugh :)

and yes, i know i will get voted down now by all the people that don't understand sarcasm... whatever :)


RE: What's the point?
By TerranMagistrate on 10/6/08, Rating: -1
RE: What's the point?
By Indianapolis on 10/6/2008 12:46:42 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
some retard with shit for brains and an affinity for penis-shaped buildings decides to build yet another one of these things, and you guys immediately turn it around and start talking about oil... bravo!


So I guess that making the mental connection between the oil market and Dubai's economic explosion is beyond your faculties?


RE: What's the point?
By Gul Westfale on 10/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: What's the point?
By xti on 10/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: What's the point?
By ebakke on 10/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: What's the point?
By Noya on 10/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: What's the point?
By dubldwn on 10/6/2008 1:07:54 PM , Rating: 5
Gul, I really hate you, but this time I couldn’t agree more. It seems many who read this article immediately got angry and started with the hate posts. Conspicuously missing are the right wing posters, because they know what a real manifestation of capitalism looks like: it looks like Hong Kong and Dubai. The irony is it was the wild hatred after 9/11 that caused these Arabs to fear their assets would be frozen in the US, resulting in them investing in their own country instead.
quote:
Before September 11, World Bank figures show Middle Eastern oil exporting countries were plowing as much as $25 billion a year into U.S. investments. For the three years of 2001-03, the figure reached $1.2 billion.

-Washington Times


RE: What's the point?
By FITCamaro on 10/6/2008 3:11:36 PM , Rating: 2
What am I invisible now? So unappreciated.


RE: What's the point?
By dryloch on 10/6/2008 7:49:55 PM , Rating: 2
Dubai looks great as long as you only look at the surface. You cannot go to Dubai if you have an Israeli passport. They are also using more or less indentured servants to build this great metropolis. The working conditions are miserable and if you don't like it that is too bad because you are not allowed to switch employers. I could go into the way women are treated the same as in Iran but why bother.


RE: What's the point?
By wvh on 10/6/2008 8:32:10 PM , Rating: 2
This counts for many places in time, including the US and Europe. All great constructions have been built by lowly workers in relatively miserable working conditions while the rich party at the top floor.

As for people with Israeli passports, I think few non-jewish/arab people really care about how these people try to deny access to each other in their respective countries because of some stupid age-old feuds and religiously motivated atrocities.

I don't deny the fact most muslims seem to live in the Dark Ages especially when it comes to savage punishments, but then again, even the US has trouble to give up the death penalty and torture – mostly supported by the religious far right, not unlike the situation in Iran.

Let this be an article about architecture.


RE: What's the point?
By FITCamaro on 10/7/2008 6:02:42 AM , Rating: 2
The death penalty has nothing to do with religion here. It has to do with believing in justice. With believing that some people will never change and are better off dead than alive. Someone who rapes and murders a child does not deserve to live. Someone who kills people intentionally and without remorse does not deserve to live. So what's the point of spending tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars for them to sit and rot in jail for the rest of their life, likely to get out due to crowded prisons, and then have them commit other crimes.

I'm not religious at all and I believe in the death penalty. My parents are Catholic and they believe in the death penalty against the teachings of the church.


RE: What's the point?
By Myg on 10/7/08, Rating: 0
RE: What's the point?
By JonnyDough on 10/8/2008 12:31:25 PM , Rating: 1
It's been shown that putting someone to death costs more than keeping them alive in prison.


RE: What's the point?
By TheBaker on 10/12/2008 10:48:18 AM , Rating: 2
Only because of the legal fees involved with the dozens of appeals they go through to try to prevent it. The actual process of execution costs far less than keeping someone in prison for life.


RE: What's the point?
By dubldwn on 10/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: What's the point?
By Continuation on 10/6/2008 9:50:31 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
So I guess that making the mental connection between the oil market and Dubai's economic explosion is beyond your faculties?


Given the fact Dubai doesn't have much oil to speak of (oil only accounts for 5% of Dubai's GDP - http://www.ameinfo.com/122863.html) your "mental connection" is quite a stretch.

Dubai makes money the same way Hong Kong does - by being an international finance hub facilitated by low taxes and free trade policy.


RE: What's the point?
By masher2 (blog) on 10/6/2008 9:59:23 PM , Rating: 4
> your "mental connection" is quite a stretch...

You're both correct, actually. Although Dubai pumps little oil on its own, the trade it facilitates with its oil-rich neighbors and the rest of the world is indeed fueled by rising oil prices.

Here's a story on Dubai's oil boom:

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/world/2008/06/...


RE: What's the point?
By Indianapolis on 10/6/2008 12:52:18 PM , Rating: 1
Apparently you guys aren't for sarcasm either.


RE: What's the point?
By StevoLincolnite on 10/6/2008 1:04:14 PM , Rating: 2
Mondayitis.


RE: What's the point?
By Alias1431 on 10/6/2008 9:18:00 PM , Rating: 2
For real. I laughed.


RE: What's the point?
By PlasmaBomb on 10/8/2008 1:41:46 PM , Rating: 2
RE: What's the point?
By nafhan on 10/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: What's the point?
By Indianapolis on 10/6/2008 11:56:27 AM , Rating: 3
Do the words "national security" mean anything to you?


RE: What's the point?
By Gzus666 on 10/6/2008 11:58:43 AM , Rating: 1
I hope what he meant was doing our own drilling, but not buying it from them. For instance, "Hey, we are going to be drilling in your country", "But that is our oil", "Tough shit jerkoffs, what are you going to do?". AMERICA GO! Man I miss America of the past, where we just kickass and take things. Survival and progression is a fight, whether it be for food, or other resources, can't always be the good guy.

Side note, who would stop us? Just get allied with Russia and China, let them get a piece of the deal, and screw the UN, they won't have an army if we leave anyway.


RE: What's the point?
By xti on 10/6/2008 12:59:12 PM , Rating: 2
hippies everywhere would form a supper hippie, and kill us all. think voltron, with a fuzzy beany.


RE: What's the point?
By Gzus666 on 10/6/2008 2:05:19 PM , Rating: 1
That is quite terrifying. I believe that is what crazy rednecks are useful for though, clearing out hippies.


RE: What's the point?
By justpassingthru on 10/6/2008 12:01:46 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Drilling for oil in the US would only moderately lower worldwide oil prices, since oil is a commodity. Middle Eastern oil would just get bought by China or Japan if the US wasn't buying it. Also, US oil companies would not sell for less than market price unless mandated by the government. So, the benefit for you and me is pretty small. Not drilling for oil in the US means that US oil reserves will still exist when everyone else runs out...


You just don't get it... transferring the wealth of our nation to other nations to the tune of nearly 1 trillion dollars per year is a BAD thing. Utilizing our own natural resources keeps our money at home.


RE: What's the point?
By Gzus666 on 10/6/08, Rating: -1
RE: What's the point?
By Moebiwankenobi on 10/6/2008 12:26:07 PM , Rating: 4
That was also when the US had the only Nuke. Lets all nuke everyone so that this is all a moot point and won't have to be dealt with until humans evolve again from the desolate Earth.


RE: What's the point?
By Gzus666 on 10/6/08, Rating: -1
RE: What's the point?
By tim851 on 10/6/2008 2:41:13 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
we ally with China and Russia


Why would they ally themselves with a dying empire?

If anything, China will invade the Iran and the Emirates and the US can't do nothing about because the military is overstretched and the country is bankrupt.


RE: What's the point?
By Gzus666 on 10/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: What's the point?
By masher2 (blog) on 10/6/2008 3:23:55 PM , Rating: 3
> "We pump more money into military than pretty much everything else combined "

Eh? Entitlement programs alone (SS, Medicare/Medicaid, etc) vastly outweigh military spending. DoD funding in 2008 alone is less than 17% of the total federal budget.

If you've seen charts that seem to portray otherwise, look closer. Many don't consider non-discretionary budget items, which are now well over 50% of the total budget.


RE: What's the point?
By Solandri on 10/6/2008 4:25:19 PM , Rating: 2
Furthermore, as a percent of GDP, our military spending (2.4%) is only slightly above the world average (2.0%). France (2.3%) spends about as much as we do. Once again, the enormous size of our economy exaggerates any of our expenditures in raw dollar amounts.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mil_exp_dol_fig_...


RE: What's the point?
By Gzus666 on 10/6/2008 4:33:17 PM , Rating: 2
Well, since GDP involves the economy of the country and not the government only, I would venture to say that has nothing to do with our military spending. But thanks for more useless percentages. At any rate, Schooling is one of the least funded programs, and that is severely needed. Meanwhile we feed old farts pills and surgeries non-stop for free so they can live a bit longer. If we focused more on properly educated people, we would probably do better off than worrying about old people.

My point is why put so much money into the military, if we don't use it to make some money back?


RE: What's the point?
By Solandri on 10/6/2008 5:11:08 PM , Rating: 2
So countries with smaller governments have less need for defense? That's an interesting theory you have there.

Items with mandatory spending (food, housing, police, military, health care, education, energy, etc.) are eminently comparable as a percentage of GDP since it automatically factors in population, standard of living, and cost of labor. Even if you don't agree entirely, it still makes a helluva lot more sense to compare as percentage of GDP than to compare raw dollar figures.


RE: What's the point?
By Gzus666 on 10/6/2008 5:18:28 PM , Rating: 2
I believe a percentage of total government spending would be more relevant, but nice save.


RE: What's the point?
By mdogs444 on 10/6/2008 5:28:37 PM , Rating: 1
A percentage of your GDP is the proper justification because a country's total wealth needs to be taken into effect.


RE: What's the point?
By MPE on 10/7/2008 12:49:50 AM , Rating: 2
Incorrect. The government charts is not accurate. Our spending on defense is much higher if you include budget from other departments that is defense related (like Dept of Energy to maintain our nuclear arsenal), veterans benefits (health and retirement), war on Iraq and Afghanistan (budgeted separately from the yearly DoD budget) - it is closer to 25-30% (a bit higher actually depending how you come up with the Iraq and Afghanistan budget).

Budget vs spending are two different numbers in regards to US military. The DoD budget is around $510 Billion. Now factor in Iraq/afghanistan (150-200 Billion). Add other things like nuclear and research and veterans benefit, then you see a better picture.


RE: What's the point?
By Diesel Donkey on 10/6/2008 11:41:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
We need to start clearing out some annoying groups of people. Middle east is annoying, they need to be dealt with. I foresee Africa getting quite annoying sooner or later with their constant wars that stop us from taking resources, as they seem to ignore them as a country.


Yeah, let's get some good old-fashioned genocide going! Do you, by any chance, keep a copy of Mein Kampf on your bed stand?


RE: What's the point?
By dubldwn on 10/6/2008 3:16:48 PM , Rating: 1
Is this a serious post? China wouldn’t invade the gulf because:
a) they would get their ass stomped. If you attack the UAE, you attach the whole GCC. Saudi Arabia has the third largest fleet of F-15’s in the world. The UAE alone has 150 multirole fighters. Also, my bet would be on the IRGC in Iran. If Hezbollah is any indication, those guys are pretty tough.
b) China imports half its oil, so any perceived hostility would ruin them.
c) We are in the gulf, and while what you say about ground troops is true, our Navy is hanging out, and is more than capable of handling any Chinese aggression.
d) Most importantly, China doesn’t have the carrier battle groups and transport required for such a feat, let alone the required allied airbases. Developing these capabilities would be far more expensive than just buying the oil.


RE: What's the point?
By porkpie on 10/6/2008 7:17:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Most importantly, China doesn’t have the carrier battle groups and transport required for such a feat,
They're building them now though.

But I don't worry too much about China. They're going to invade Taiwan one day, but other than that they're not big on expansion. Russia is a much bigger problem.


RE: What's the point?
By DASQ on 10/7/2008 3:36:53 PM , Rating: 2
You don't need a navy to invade Taiwan from China. You need to buy millions of water wings.


RE: What's the point?
By eldakka on 10/7/2008 2:20:36 AM , Rating: 2
Why would china need carrier battle groups?

It's on the same continent as the middle east, it could just romp through a couple of the 'stans and would never need a naval presence at all.


RE: What's the point?
By crleap on 10/6/2008 4:37:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
until humans evolve again from the desolate Earth.


I'd like to hope that the earth could do better than humans the 2nd time around.


RE: What's the point?
By FITCamaro on 10/6/2008 12:42:02 PM , Rating: 4
The great thing about nukes, is that there are no bodies to clean up. It's eco-friendly.


RE: What's the point?
By Gzus666 on 10/6/2008 12:44:50 PM , Rating: 2
Ha, well, depends where they are at in the explosion. I figure to keep the oil usable, you would have to tactically kill people with radiation rather than the direct blast. So, a lot of half dead people we would have to carpet bomb and kinda shimmy the last bodies out of the way.


RE: What's the point?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/6/2008 3:40:17 PM , Rating: 2
Re-open Neutron Bomb manufacturing.


RE: What's the point?
By Gzus666 on 10/6/2008 4:38:12 PM , Rating: 2
Yea, that would be cool. Nothing like a few year half life, just plow through, and move in a few years later. My favorite were the bunker busters, so bad ass.


RE: What's the point?
By MPE on 10/6/2008 12:08:54 PM , Rating: 1
Drilling means very little. It is a political hot word that actually will affect you very little. First off, the US known reserve is small - like 1-2% of the world. It will not affect price nor our dependency for the 25% of the world energy.

Second drilling at best case scenario will produce useable oil in the next 5 years - high output not in 10-15 years. Add more years if you are going to do some research to find other locations.

So yes drilling means very little in reality. It is just the politicians are using it for their own gains.


RE: What's the point?
By masher2 (blog) on 10/6/2008 12:17:54 PM , Rating: 2
> "The US known reserve is small - like 1-2% of the world"

Utterly false. ANWR alone is estimated to be as much as 1.2% of world production once developed. Add in the Outer Continental Shelf and areas of the Arctic under our control and the estimate is several times that. The amount is easily enough to cut our foreign consumption of oil by a third for the next 30-40 years, and also drastically reduce the impact of BRIC economic expansion on world oil prices.

As for the red herring that oil will take at least five years to develop -- how many of us are planning on being dead in the next 5 years? That excuse was used a decade ago...had we started then, we would have been pumping now.


RE: What's the point?
By FITCamaro on 10/6/2008 12:43:38 PM , Rating: 1
Don't forget the still unknown quantities of oil in oil shale in the mid west.


RE: What's the point?
By MPE on 10/6/2008 12:48:10 PM , Rating: 1
So I am right ANWR is 1.2%.

The Outer Con and Artic is JUST A GUESS. There has not been an actual useable survey for those areas in DECADES. Even if there are it would take several MORE YEARS to just to find it and create a plan to drill it. So again I am right to say if you need to increase the known source - add more years. Drilling is a several process. Just surveying and building drill stations take YEARS.

So the estimate of 10-20 years is the reality. Even in 5 years oil comes our of ANWR it will be a trickle - full production will be reach several more years later.

And BTW - drilling does not guarantee lower prices. The government would have to legislate it that. And that is a whole another issue that can take several years to figure out.

In 10-15 years we could be in 2 or more wars (Iran, Pakistan, etc). The reality is drilling is least pragmatic solution. Oil dependency (be it air, nuclear, solar) is much more realistic. Look at Germany. They drive high MPG cars, have always had $4/g gas prices and yet they have moved significant of their energy needs to solar.

I am not saying drilling is bad. But all this 'Drill Baby drill' people need to settle down. It is the least efficient solution to a long term problem. It should be part of the solution but the reality it is the longest one to implement. And in our current situation 10-20 years is a luxury.


RE: What's the point?
By FITCamaro on 10/6/2008 12:50:04 PM , Rating: 2
Well considering that there's so much oil off of California's coast that its bubbling out of the ground into the ocean, that tells me there's a pretty damn good amount there.


RE: What's the point?
By masher2 (blog) on 10/6/2008 12:54:53 PM , Rating: 2
> "The Outer Con and Artic is JUST A GUESS."

No. It's a highly educated assessment conducted by expert geologists, based on large amounts of real world data. Furthermore, it's a conservative estimate that has a large probability of being welll below the true amount, especially when future advances in technology are taken into account.

> "there has not been an actual useable survey for those areas in DECADES"

You think geological formations that lasted millions of year are going to vanish in a couple of decades? In any case, the USGS has never stopped surveying areas, even ones off limits to oil production.

> "And BTW - drilling does not guarantee lower prices"

If you're living in the real world rather than fantasy land, it most certainly does. Basic supply and demand is a law not even the US government can legislate away.

> "So I am right ANWR is 1.2%."

Your original statement about total US reserves being "1-2%" was incorrect, plain and simple.


RE: What's the point?
By MPE on 10/6/08, Rating: -1
RE: What's the point?
By masher2 (blog) on 10/6/2008 1:21:30 PM , Rating: 2
> "Even Iraq's and Saudi Arabia's oil reserve have been wrong and they have more recent data than the US!!!!"

The original estimates of Saudi oil from the 1940s were only "wrong" in that they dramatically underestimated the total recoverable oil.

You're not fooling anyone. There's trillions of dollars worth of oil in the OCS and Arctic regions. Odds are the actual amount is substantially larger than what we currently estimate.

> "You do know our rate of increase of our energy needs surpasses those what ANWAR can add in the next decade right?"

So? That increase will occur whether or not we drill. Exploiting ANWR and the OCS will dramatically lower oil prices from what they otherwise would be.

Yes, oil prices will certainly be higher at some point in the future. But the point is that exploiting domestic sources can mean the difference between $200/b versus $300/b oil.

Petroleum has a relatively inelastic demand curve. Increasing world supply by just a couple percent can drop prices by a third or more.


RE: What's the point?
By MPE on 10/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: What's the point?
By ebakke on 10/6/2008 3:47:55 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
There is NO DRASTIC changes for ANWAR and OCS since the production is long term. You will not suddenly pump out 4 billions. That is extracted in decades.
Just like the production is long term, so are the effects of lower prices. Asher's not making the argument that tomorrow (and for only the next 6 months) prices will drop immensely. He's saying they will drop slightly tomorrow (as the price of oil is based on the speculation of future supply/demand), and going forward it will continue to be lower than it would be if we didn't drill more. From the day we start drilling until the day we stop, there will be more supply and thus a lower price. This isn't that difficult to understand.


RE: What's the point?
By Gzus666 on 10/6/2008 4:41:45 PM , Rating: 2
Didn't OPEC recently make the announcement they want to slow down production to keep the price per barrel high? I know I saw this at least a few times in articles and on the news. Seems to me they don't want proper supply, cause the price drops, as do their enormous profits.


RE: What's the point?
By MPE on 10/6/2008 4:46:56 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
He's saying they will drop slightly tomorrow (as the price of oil is based on the speculation of future supply/demand), and going forward it will continue to be lower than it would be if we didn't drill more.


But that is my point. The slight input of ANWAR and others is slight. If you factor in our and the rest of the worlds consumption rate and OPECs ability to negate such slight increase with their own slight decrease the effect would be minimal to the point of negligible.

Look I am NOT against the drilling. I would love OPEC to have no affect on our lives. But the reality is as long as our dependency on oil remains the same and ANWAR/OCS do not reveal 12 TIMES as much reserve (rough estimate how much we need to stop importing today) our problems in the Middle East will continue.

I will also like to tell you why drilling is liked by many Americans. You know why? It is the solution that LEAST affect the typical consumer. There is no sacrifice asked from drilling. Solar, wind, and reduce consumption means sacrifice. To many of us it means we can continue driving the stupid Hummer.

I'm not sure about you but I rather sacrifice my driving habits than sending my friends to another god awful war. My little brother is about to finish college soon. God I hope we don't expand our military campaign in the next 2 years.

As much as like the idea of drilling - the reality is - it is far from pragmatic.


RE: What's the point?
By ebakke on 10/6/2008 11:11:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I will also like to tell you why drilling is liked by many Americans. You know why? It is the solution that LEAST affect the typical consumer. There is no sacrifice asked from drilling. Solar, wind, and reduce consumption means sacrifice. To many of us it means we can continue driving the stupid Hummer.
Drilling requires the least amount of sacrifice, and it's the most viable at this point in time. Wind and solar aren't viable, and reduced consumption only goes so far. It's also pretty ignorant/naive of you to assume that the only thing people would have to sacrifice is a Hummer, or an equivalent SUV. I drive a Civic (as it was the most cost effective, highest mileage car I could afford), and I want cheaper gas so I don't have to sacrifice my ability to visit family. Drilling for oil domestically helps in this area.

quote:
I'm not sure about you but I rather sacrifice my driving habits than sending my friends to another god awful war. My little brother is about to finish college soon. God I hope we don't expand our military campaign in the next 2 years.
Domestic drilling is a completely separate issue from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Furthermore, if you honestly believe we're headed for another draft, I feel sorry that you live in such fear. And until a draft takes place, your brother's safe from the military unless he voluntarily chooses to join.

quote:
As much as like the idea of drilling - the reality is - it is far from pragmatic.
That is just blatantly false.


RE: What's the point?
By JediJeb on 10/6/2008 3:04:08 PM , Rating: 2
"And BTW - drilling does not guarantee lower prices"

Im not sure of all the reasons, but seems that since it was apparent that the US coastal areas would be opened to drilling the price of oil has dropped quite a bit. Maybe a coincidence, maybe not, but they did seem to occur about the same time.


RE: What's the point?
By FITCamaro on 10/6/2008 1:02:59 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
They drive high MPG cars, have always had $4/g gas prices


Their high cost of fuel is because of the insanely high taxes on it. Their prices do not reflect the market cost. They reflect the government restricting the feasibility of ownership of low MPG cars to the fabulously wealthy. That is hardly a model to follow.

quote:
and yet they have moved significant of their energy needs to solar.


http://www.solarbuzz.com/fastfactsgermany.htm

According to the facts on that site (albeit they're somewhat confusing):
1) Germany has between 400MW and 1.4GW of solar power being produced

2) In 1999, 6% of Germany's power was from renewable sources. Of that < 1% was from solar power.

3) Germany's power usage in 1999 was 495 GW. I'm sure it hasn't dropped.

Assuming the 1.4GW figure from around 2006 from fact 1 and total power usage of fact 3 from 1999, Germany produces around .2% of its electricity from solar energy.


RE: What's the point?
By TSS on 10/6/2008 12:23:21 PM , Rating: 1
seems to me most people dont "get it"...

how about using much, much less oil to begin with? all in all that'll probably be cheaper then to build more rigs, use up your own resources then face another crisis down the road where you don't have the option left of "using your own resources".

however it's good to see the oil discussion still around, as crude oil prices have dropped significantly since their high in the summer. usually the problem dissapears untill the prices go up again...


RE: What's the point?
By masher2 (blog) on 10/6/2008 12:07:52 PM , Rating: 3
> "So, the benefit for you and me is pretty small..."

Eh? There is estimated to be well over $3 trillion worth of oil in areas off-limits to drilling today -- enough to fund our financial "bailout" bill 5 times over. However do you arrive at the fact that's a "small" benefit?


RE: What's the point?
By MPE on 10/6/08, Rating: -1
RE: What's the point?
By Aloonatic on 10/6/2008 12:07:41 PM , Rating: 4
When all the worlds oil has gone or is starting to dry up and suddenly America remembers that it has loads waiting to be exploited, BAM, you whip out your spice weasel and knock it up a notch.

Unless people start finding alternative forms of energy for their cars and whatnot by then of course :-s

Quick, drill drill drill =D


RE: What's the point?
By Gzus666 on 10/6/2008 12:09:52 PM , Rating: 2
I tip my hat to a fantastic Futurama reference. Ah the spice weasel, how I miss that show.


RE: What's the point?
By FITCamaro on 10/6/2008 12:44:45 PM , Rating: 2
It's coming back. :)


RE: What's the point?
By Gzus666 on 10/6/2008 12:48:42 PM , Rating: 2
Oh god, don't screw with me here. Are you serious? If so, please linkify me, as I would cream my jeans to have that show back.


RE: What's the point?
By FITCamaro on 10/6/2008 1:31:18 PM , Rating: 1
They had those new movies they made. Which will eventually become episodes. And I think there was some thing that has prevented them from making new episodes until 2009. Everything I heard said 2009.

http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/06/22/new-episodes-of-...


RE: What's the point?
By V3ctorPT on 10/6/2008 1:04:34 PM , Rating: 2
It seems that there is no need for the Space Elevator... just use that building... some day the mountain climber's decide to climb a building, it's more dangerous with planes flying next to it


RE: What's the point?
By winterspan on 10/6/2008 10:44:39 PM , Rating: 2
What we really need is a massive new investment strategy that spurs renewable energy development on a national scale.

Domestic Oil drilling is red herring political issue coming from energy lobbyists and their right-wing supporters. The fact is that there is just not enough oil to have any kind of significant impact on the market, especially with global and domestic demand growing so quickly.

Based on data from the US Energy Information Administration, oil production from drilling offshore in the Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) wouldn't hit the market until 2016-2017. And It is estimated that it would hit peak production around 2030 producing just over 200,000 barrels per day. The figures I have below use today's consumption figures, which are projected to swell another 20% by 2030.

Domestic U.S. Oil consumption per day (2008) = 21,000,000 barrels
Domestic US. Oil production (2008) = 6,000,000 barrels
Net Oil imports per day = 15,000,000 barrels

New Oil from off-shore drilling per day = 200,000 barrels
New Oil from off-shore drilling as percentage of total imported oil = 1.3%
New Oil from off-shore drilling as percentage of total oil consumption = 0.95%

This is hardly a drop in the bucket, especially considering the growth rate in energy demand. We are going to face shortages and crushing prices within another decade if we don't do act quickly to reduce demand in this country.


RE: What's the point?
By JonnyDough on 10/8/2008 12:25:21 PM , Rating: 2
This is likely to happen with McCain's chosen running mate. I suppose it's too early to say it but I don't know many people voting for Obama...

Alaska, here we come.


Brings a tear to my eye...
By Indianapolis on 10/6/2008 12:05:46 PM , Rating: 2
As an American, it brings a tear to my eye when I see all the great things that are being done with my four-dollars-a-gallon. I feel like a proud papa! Thank you Nancy Pelosi!




RE: Brings a tear to my eye...
By MPE on 10/6/08, Rating: 0
RE: Brings a tear to my eye...
By masher2 (blog) on 10/6/2008 12:26:47 PM , Rating: 5
> "Why blame Nancy Pelosi only?"

Because she, more than any other politician in recent memory, had taken legislative action to block expansion of US domestic oil reserves. She's also been a strong proponent of environmental regulations which have stymied new refinery construction.

When you don't build a new refinery in a nation for 32 years of economic expansion and demand growth, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize you're going to start having gas shortages and skyrocketing prices. When a nation goes from importing 20% to 70% of its oil, it doesn't take a crystal ball to realize that problems are impending.

> "No one told you to drive a Hummer?"

I think I can safely say that Nancy Pelosi uses more oil herself than any twenty readers of this board combined.


RE: Brings a tear to my eye...
By FITCamaro on 10/6/2008 12:48:28 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
I think I can safely say that Nancy Pelosi uses more oil herself than any twenty readers of this board combined.


That's why people like her and Al Gore need the rest of us to stop using so much. They need to fuel their private jets. If the rest of us are using oil, it makes it harder for them to do it.


RE: Brings a tear to my eye...
By MPE on 10/6/2008 12:57:24 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Because she, more than any other politician in recent memory,


Have you really checked that? Or are you giving me talking points? Let me put it this way - recent memory = during W Bush era.

Second, it takes several votes to kill legislation.

Third, as noted above, drilling actually would have little impact (at least for another decade) to gas prices.

Fourth, refinery construction has been a industry thing - nothing political. The industry has been unwilling to build for decades. No one has stopped them. They have been asking for government subsidies even though they have been very profitable every year.