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Nintendo came out on top once again throughout December hardware sales

The holiday season is undoubtedly the most important selling period for console makers, and it’s easy to see why after examining the NPD sales data for December 2007.

The Nintendo DS was by far the best selling system for the month with 2.47 million sold. With the lowest price point for hardware and large selection of software that appeals to the casual market, it’s not surprising to see Nintendo’s handheld system at the top of the charts.

Nintendo also reigns supreme in the living room too, with the Wii selling the most of all home console systems at 1.35 million units.

"By the end of 2007 we were sold out of virtually all hardware, and much of our stock of software and accessories was sold out as well, thanks to the broad appeal of Wii and Nintendo DS to core gamers, women, families, grandparents - and seemingly everyone in between," said Cammie Dunaway, Nintendo of America's executive vice president of sales & marketing. "And that momentum continues here in the early weeks of 2008."

Since their respective launches, Nintendo has sold more than 17.6 million Nintendo DS systems and nearly 7.4 million Wii systems in the U.S, and accounted for more than half of all the video game systems sold in 2007.

The Xbox 360 also had a strong showing, selling 1.26 million consoles in December. The total count for Xbox 360s in the U.S. is now at 9.15 million, according to NPD.

While Nintendo may have sold the most hardware in 2007, Microsoft captured the most dollars of any console manufacturer. Xbox 360 related sales accounted for nearly 45 percent of total industry figures for the year.

Much of Xbox 360’s strong revenue driving power comes from its high attach rate – 7 games per console. Of the top 20 best-selling titles in 2007 for this generation, 11 were on Xbox 360, while only seven were sold on the Wii and two sold on the PS3.

Once again, Sony’s family of products made up the second half of the list. The PlayStation 2 continued to show signs of life with 1.1 million, adding to the U.S. install base of over 40 million. Sony was happy to point out that its PS2 user base bought more software units than any other console on the market.

PSP wasn’t far behind with 1.06 million units, representing an 87 percent increase in sales over November. Portable systems appear to be a preferred choice as a holiday gift, helping the PSP reach 10.47 million sold in the U.S.

The PlayStation 3 held the bottom spot on the list with 797,000 units sold, bringing the total since launch to 3.25 million. Even with occupying the lower half of the sales list, PlayStation total hardware revenue was $714 million in December, surpassing the total hardware revenue of Microsoft and Nintendo.

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Nintendo not next gen console
By pomaikai on 1/18/2008 10:03:07 AM , Rating: 1
Nintendo went a different route and stepped out of the next gen console war. They dont compete with 360 or PS3. There are alot of people who buy a 360 or PS3 and still buy a wii. Wii has a much larger customer base and saying they have a larger market share than PS3 or xbox 360 is inaccurate because these consoles have such a different market group.

What makes the wii fun could have been easily done on the gamecube. I wii is more like a vtech game machine. Pretty much all people buy are games made by nintendo and have a very poor attachment rate. I know 4 people who have bought a wii and all they own are Wii sports and Wii play and they have no plans to buy other games yet.




RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By joemoedee on 1/18/2008 10:19:08 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Nintendo went a different route and stepped out of the next gen console war.


I guess it depends on what determines a "next gen" system in your mind.

Rather than dropping the money into better graphics (The Wii can be better than the last gen, but not by too much) their "next gen" feature is the controller.

I think this next gen/current gen/etc needs to go out the window. We're in the 7th gen now.

6th gen =

Dreamcast
PS2
Xbox
Gamecube

7th gen =

Xbox 360
Wii
PS3


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By BMFPitt on 1/18/2008 10:53:49 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
I guess it depends on what determines a "next gen" system in your mind.
In my mind, "Next Gen" is a silly and undefined marketing term that holds no value.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By BansheeX on 1/18/2008 11:33:26 AM , Rating: 1
Exactly. If Somebody released a new console next year, is that next-gen and making the 360 and PS3 last-gen? How can you group things into "generations" when people are constantly trying to leapfrog each other, and some aren't even trying to push hardware anymore. It's all rather silly.


By murphyslabrat on 1/18/2008 12:35:39 PM , Rating: 2
Welcome to marketing


By Alexstarfire on 1/18/2008 4:58:57 PM , Rating: 1
No, it'd still be considered this gen IMO. Yea, it's just some lame marketing, but it kinda makes sense. I mean, the PS2 can't be this generation since Sony has something new out. It only really poses a problem when some other company makes their first console. Other than that the companies seem to produce new consoles all at about the same time. That's why they generally get lumped into generations.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By bangmal on 1/20/2008 4:13:43 AM , Rating: 2
If i try hard enough, i can teach my dog to know that the phrase "new generation" has been used for decades to describe the computing power of the consoles. It is very obvious that Wii belongs to the last generation of consoles in terms of computing power.

Yes, i know, retard and playing Wii are related by the "iff" logical relation these days.

But I still hope it would not be that difficult for you to understand.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By FITCamaro on 1/18/2008 10:20:23 AM , Rating: 4
Ok. It is a next gen console. Just because it doesn't have high def graphics, doesn't not make it a next generation console. Any console after the previous one is the next generation of that companies console.

One could argue that the 360 and PS3 aren't next generation because all they do is offer better graphics.

Stop insisting that just because it doesn't have better graphics its not next gen. There's no doubt it appeals to a different market. But that doesn't mean its not next gen. I don't even own a Wii either so its not like my view is skewed from being a fan of it.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By NotAok on 1/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By joemoedee on 1/18/2008 10:46:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
but they don't, they offer a ton more than just better graphics. Sony and MS put a lot of money and effort into a system that truly was a "next-gen" platform.


Like what?

Online play? Done in 6th gen.

Hard drives? Done in 6th gen.

Sony offers Blu-Ray playback, which would be a new feature. MS counters this with the HD-DVD add-on.

So, outside of being able to play high def movies and offering better graphics, what else can really be done that qualifies your statement?


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By BansheeX on 1/18/2008 11:50:35 AM , Rating: 2
Online play was limited and immature last-gen. Saying that nothing was done this gen because it was simply possible last-gen is quite the spin. That's like saying 3D was done on the SNES with the FX chip, so 3D after that is "old news." Or hey, let's turn the argument against you. Motion sensing was done with the power glove in the NES era. I guess motion sensing is not offering something new either.

If you don't think free full-fledged netplay, standard hard drives, digital video connections, HD resolutions, free netplay, expanded media playback, automatic firmware/gamepatch updates, and linux support is not progress for consoles, then you're living in la-la land.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By BansheeX on 1/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By sweetsauce on 1/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By murphyslabrat on 1/18/2008 12:41:32 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Linux is a hinderance

You're a hindrance.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By mars777 on 1/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By edpsx on 1/18/2008 3:21:37 PM , Rating: 2
Are we forgetting the ability to browse the internet on the PS3 as well? No console last gen could do that either. So not only full online play support, but complete www browsing capabilities. Complete integration into media sharing and viewing as well. Remote play isnt offered ANYWHERE else either.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By Alexstarfire on 1/18/2008 5:09:36 PM , Rating: 1
Well the Wii can do interenet, so now what? It's true that remote play isn't offered anywhere else, but the Wii can use the DS for certain things. I'm not sure if they can do something like remote play on it, but they can use it as a Wii controller for many games. Pretty much any game that doesn't use the motion sensor.

What else was improved this generation that wasn't in last generation consoles?

Media Playback? Got a DivX DVD player already.

I can't even think of anything else. Online and HDDs have been done before, and HDDs don't really add anything anyways. Sony has used the same controller for over a decade now. It's just as bad as it's always been, IMO. I never liked the setup. The N64 has the best setup, other than the Wiimote. I never liked the Gamecube remote, so it's not like I'm just siding with Nintendo over here.


By Pneumothorax on 1/20/2008 2:14:48 AM , Rating: 2
Although both the PS3 and the wii aren't exactly the best for surfing, the Wii's 480P rez leaves much to be desired vs. the 1900X1080 rez on the PS3.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By joemoedee on 1/19/2008 1:27:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Are we forgetting the ability to browse the internet on the PS3 as well? No console last gen could do that either.


Dreamcast had a decent browser, IRC as well. That's 6th gen. :)


By robinthakur on 1/21/2008 4:40:05 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, you could browse the net fine on the dreamcast using Dream Key.
R
T


By psychobriggsy on 1/21/2008 6:18:50 AM , Rating: 2
Wii has netplay - not a lot of games support it (due to the nature of the games) and you can argue that the friend code thing is a hassle and that there isn't some online hub thing. I'd say that wireless is a next generation console requirement, so you don't have to have wireless dongles because your cable modem is in a different room.

Wii has storage - 512MB of flash and an SD-card slot. Sure, it's not a HD but you can swap cards. Shame you can't run Wii Virtual Console (hey, is that a next gen feature?) games from them. Downloadable games is clearly a next gen feature.

Certainly the Wii hasn't intended to be a media convergence device. Is that a requirement of a next generation *gaming* system? It sounds like a nice additional feature to me. Still, there's a web browser that can do YouTube.

Wii has automatic firmware updates. Wii has keyboard support. Wii has standard Bluetooth. Wii has next generation motion controllers. Wii has the most superior backwards compatibility. It's just that the CPU and GPU are very weak, relatively, although the choice to be widescreen enhanced definition instead of HD makes up a little for it.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By Aikouka on 1/18/2008 12:04:08 PM , Rating: 2
Like Banshee, I think the item that really sets this generation of consoles apart from their predecessors is that the online abilities have matured quite a bit in comparison. In my opinion, I think Sony and Nintendo have a bit of catching up to do when it comes to Microsoft's XBOX Live, but the effort's there.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By Aloonatic on 1/18/2008 10:47:13 AM , Rating: 2
The wii has a a web browser, does the xBox 360?

No motion sensing at all, not even the half hearted effort the PS3 makes.

Is there a number of triangles drawn threshold that makes a console next gen? Or a number of codecs that are supported? etc etc etc...

For once we have different consoles offering different interpretations on what people want to play. It's all good!


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By pomaikai on 1/18/2008 2:14:04 PM , Rating: 5
It is for gaming. I dont knock the wii for lack of streaming movies.

Motion sensing hasnt worked in the past. Nintendo finally re-invented it again and it took off.

A next-gen console by definition is the next generation of a console. During the next-gen war it is a comparison of which is the better console. In the end it is a matter of who sold more. The wii skews this concept because instead of comparing the lamborghini, ferrari, and porsche. We now have the lamborghini, ferrari, and camry. Of course the camry will sell better. It is not in the same class.

I agree. Thats why I own both a 360(lambo or ferrari, your choice) and a wii(camry). I enjoy playing online multiplayer games on the 360 and playing with my family on the wii.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By cyclosarin on 1/18/2008 3:08:45 PM , Rating: 5
Nah. While the Wii might be a Camry, the 360/PS3 are just Chargers/Mustangs. The 'lambo/ferarri' of the gaming world are the custom built gaming PCs that would stomp any console silly. The 360/PS3 are excited about being able to push out 1920x1080, meanwhile the cutting edge gaming machines are already at 2560x1600 and beyond supporting multiple displays.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By Manch on 1/27/2008 5:26:51 AM , Rating: 2
Don't ever compare a mustang to a PS3!! lol Besides PS3 is japanese so wouldn't it be more like a WRX STI? or an EVO?


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By clovell on 1/18/2008 11:24:34 AM , Rating: 5
Nintendo did:

Accelerometers
Built-in Wi-Fi
Bluetooth
Rumble
On-Board Flash
Internet
Online Play
Backwards compatibility
Pointing
Downloadable Content

I may have left some stuff off of the list - it's a lot to remember.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By jaded1216 on 1/18/2008 12:08:07 PM , Rating: 3
you forgot that the wiimotes have speakers on them too. the game plays a different sound on the wiimote depending on what action the player did in the game.

kinda adds a level of personalization to the 4-player multiplayer gaming.

Oh, and backwards compatibility, rumble, online play, and downloadable content have all been done before. /shrug


By inighthawki on 1/18/2008 12:37:45 PM , Rating: 2
"Oh, and backwards compatibility, rumble, online play, and downloadable content have all been done before. /shrug"

I think he meant more along the lines of vast improvements and just for Nintendo. Their previous consoles didnt have any backwards compatibility at all, rumble was done yes, but also improved, online play is now huge for the wii, as 99% of gamecube games didn't support any online functionality, and you needed a special connector as well, and afaik, it didn't have any downloadable content on the gamecube. I could be wrong there, if there was feel free to let me know


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By Aloonatic on 1/18/2008 10:43:10 AM , Rating: 2
Is it the hardware that makes it Next Gen or the competition that it is beating/performing well against?

Personally, I wish I had bought one (when I had the chance) instead of my PS3.

It is good to see Nintendo doing well again.

They rolled the dice and they won this round, but they gone down a few dead ends before, what ever happened to the Virtual Boy!? Not everything Nintendo does turns to gold.


By JKflipflop98 on 1/18/2008 12:38:41 PM , Rating: 2
You know what? I hope the next Nintendo system produced with this enormous mountain of cash they suddenly find themselves with is a next-gen Virtual Boy. Light weight OLED glasses and a super-wiimote for each hand or something. Would be awesome I think.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By pomaikai on 1/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By Murst on 1/18/2008 11:40:59 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
The control scheme works for simplistic games

Sorry, but that's just too funny. The reason why it may make the games seem simiplistic is because it is revolutionizing interactivity in games. Take a look at Metroid...

The point of gaming isn't to memorize button sequences. It is to have fun. Do you really think Wii sports would be fun if it wasn't using the Wii-mote?

The simplicity in a lot of these Wii games is an effect of the controller. Many of these games would just not be any fun if you had to use an analog stick and buttons to perform actions.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By pomaikai on 1/18/08, Rating: 0
By Chris Peredun on 1/18/2008 12:56:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The market group for the wii is not the market that most game developers devlop (sic) for.

With the Wii, Nintendo has the fortunate position of being marketed to everyone. Casual gamers aren't the only ones buying Wiis - they just get highlighted because they make up a sizeable chunk of the sales, unlike the PS3 or 360.

quote:
My dad is wanting to buy a golf game.

What Nintendo needs to do is make a full-disc Wii Golf - a dozen pre-made 9 and 18-hole courses, online play, and a simple editor for making your own holes and courses to share with your friends. Sell it for even $40, and I'm sure you'd have casual gamers handing over bills like they were on fire.

Completely off-topic: I'm really looking forward to Okami on the Wii.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By kelmon on 1/18/2008 11:41:52 AM , Rating: 2
That's just rubbish. I can agree that games from other developers aren't selling well but the idea that developers don't want to touch the Wii if they aren't Nintendo is an asinine statement. If there is a real reason it would be that they're scared of it. The 360 and PS3 are just like the consoles that came before them, and the ones that came before that, and on pretty much right back to the old NES and Atari - you have a joystick/pad and push some buttons. The Wii isn't like that so you need to develop a different type of game, or at the very least a different control method. You can't just roll out the same games as before because it doesn't work and while Nintendo has no doubt had time to get its act together everyone else is going to be playing catch-up.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with simplistic or, for that matter, only playing a couple of games. I mean, what does that tell you? Does a low rate of game purchases imply that the games are bad or that people are already happy with what they've got?

I'm 32 now and the 360 and PS3 just aren't interesting anymore but the Wii is a breath of fresh air in games.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By AlphaVirus on 1/18/2008 1:28:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm 32 now and the 360 and PS3 just aren't interesting anymore but the Wii is a breath of fresh air in games.

Ok...what?

1.You are the market Nintendo is trying to manipulate with the Wii, the older people(25+). Once people reach that age they usually gain other priorities. The 360 and PS3 are already on that level considering they offer TVShow/Movie downloads, hidef movie playback, and gaming for their kids.

2.What games? The top selling game of the Wii was WiiPlay and that only sold well because it included the remote which alot of people sold the game back and kept the remote. Developers dont have much to work with on the Wii's hardware, that is whats keeping 360 and PS3 in the race. In the long run, the 360 and PS3 will shadow the Wii's success.

I have a handful of friends who bought a Wii and yet none of them play it, most of the time they bought it because they had a female in the house. The retention value is horrible once you realize "Hey, there really arent many good games to play".

The plus side of the Wii is the remote, it causes people to get up and do stuff. I cant stand seeing 300lbs 13yr old kids, that is just wrong.
But from another perspective, I dont want to have to feel out of shape just to play a game. (Well for the people who are out of shape).

I just hope 2008 pans out well for all consoles, competition is great for us all.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By kelmon on 1/19/2008 10:47:08 AM , Rating: 2
Perhaps I am in the right market for the Wii. I grew up with games and so I remember that, for example, Half Life 2 is just Wolfenstein 3D with prettier graphics but without the "wow, this is a new experience". Modern games just tend to be rehashes of old titles with incremental updates and there is very rarely a title like Populous, Wolfenstein or Dune that really brings something new. However, if you haven't been playing games for long then the stuff on the 360 and PS3 probably seems fresh and interesting, so it's all good for you.

I can' really speak for the gaming catalog for the Wii since I have only 2 at present due to budget constraints, Wii Sports and Metroid Prime 3. Both of these seem damned good in my opinion and time will tell for the others. The title of "Best Seller" really isn't that interesting since crap games, much like crap movies, can still sell. Regardless, my point still holds - this is something new and it's going to take developers time to change how they design games. You can't simply rehash the same stuff as has been made before because it simply doesn't work with the Wiimote. Ultimately, however, this will change in time because a) Nintendos own software shows that it can be done, and b) the sheer volume of potential customers mean that its a market that has to be addressed.

In fairness, I did also buy the Wii because both my wife and I can play on it but I don't see that as being anything other than a good thing - games should be "pickup and play".


By robinthakur on 1/21/2008 4:56:20 AM , Rating: 2
I consider myself a gamer at 27 and own all the current consoles and all of the last gen. The Wii has more than enough games of the complexity and standard that I would expect of a major console made by Nintendo. This is an opportunity for developers to embrace a different direction and it would really be in their best interests seeing that the public (which is everybody and not just Dailytech readers) have voted with their money. If anything it would be easier to embrace than learning to program for the Cell or the 360 and the increased development and cost associated with AAA titles for both platforms. If Microsoft/Sony could have this market they would swap in an instant. This market is huge and the potential rewards from it outweigh all purist' objections exponentially. Nintendo saw this potential, took a risk and won, Kudos to them, nobody else saw this coming. Nintendo takes big risks in an ever more commodotized market and at the end of the day most people, whether you like big N or not, must applaud them for it. I still find it funny that they thought Micrososft forced the next gen far too early while there was still plenty of potential left in the last one, and then decided to use a higher clocked hardware from the last gen on a tidy profit, gambling that most people wouldn't even care. Who's laughing now?


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By Nightskyre on 1/18/2008 11:53:18 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Look at software sales. They really suck for everything except games made by nintendo.


quote:
they dont want to touch the wii because if it is not made by nintendo it wont sell very good[sic].


This isn't entirely true. Zak and Wiki is an excellent example of a third party came that is selling very well and will continue to grow. It would be considered a sleeper hit.
Trauma Center: Second Opinion is another example of an excellent third party game selling extremely well on the Nintendo Wii. Elebits, while not enjoying as much sales success, is another example.

The issue is not the absence of the red Nintendo oval on the corner of the game case. The issue is the dearth of original, fresh thoughts being applied to a completely different control schema. EA has had some success with the waggle controls they added to Madden, but this isn't quite far enough.

The fact is, developers need to change the way they think in order to develop for the Wii, and they are unable to do it. It's very difficult for a large developer to shift their thinking so radically in order to develop for a third of the console market, especially when regurgitation still makes money, which leads me to my next point.

quote:
There is alot of talented developers out there that all have new ideas or tweaks to make gaming better


Actually, what I think you meant to say was:

There are a lot of developers out there that all they have is ideas of tweaks to make the same overused genres of gaming better

Don't get me wrong, Bioshock is a great game and I absolutely loved it, but Super Mario Galaxy is far more revolutionary.

quote:
A gaming console is supposed to allow developers to create fresh new games.


You don't think the Nintendo Wii does this? If that's the case, you're a fool and I'm wasting my time typing this response.

quote:
This is why Wii is becoming more of a vtech type console geared to the family


I'm sure developers of No More Heroes (Suda 51) would beg to differ:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_More_Heroes_(video...

Nintendo has always been well known as a company that bucks the trend. By and large, they have been successful. Why? They have amazingly creative artists. Shigeru Miyamoto is one of the most brilliant video gaming minds the world has ever produced. His list of accolades is stunning. The IP that came out of his mind is staggering.

Rinsed and repeated games are fun, but that doesn't mean they're original.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By pomaikai on 1/18/2008 1:55:35 PM , Rating: 2
Yes wii games will sell well, but with the install base being the largest they should be selling better. The games you and others mentioned arent on the radar for the average wii player. It is games like bowling, golf, etc. It is family games that anyone can pickup and play easily.

There are two fanbases with the new wii. There are the gamers and the new casual gamer. Sadly the new casual gamer is what created the enourmous install base. They are parents, really young kids(2+), and grandparents. These people dont care about Metroid, Resident Evil 4, or any of those type games. To get a good representation of true gamers vs new casual gamers we need to compare the sales of say games like Zak or any other high selling title outside of wii sports or play and compare it to 360 that has a smaller install base.


By psychobriggsy on 1/21/2008 6:42:00 AM , Rating: 2
A large number of the Wii install base is still quite new, and Wii Sports is providing enough entertainment, then Wii Play a little more. Let's see how things are in a year, to be fair with the lifespan of the 360 currently.

The XBox360 has been far longer so you would expect the attach rate to be higher. Also there have been a lot of cheap 360 games available, £9.99 or so in the sales because they came out a while ago. Nintendo games are newer and never get that cheap.

However there are a lot of Wiis out there that will never get a lot of games on them because of the target audience. Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit, A golf game maybe, and a brain game ... Lucky that Nintendo is making a profit on the hardware itself.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By ezacharyk on 1/18/2008 11:59:24 AM , Rating: 2
Boy how do your take points away from someone's rating?

The reason that non Nintendo games are not as successful is because of people like you. Have you looked at the non Nintendo games? There are quite a few out now and that are coming out. Let's see, Resident Evil 4 (Capcom), Resdident Evil Umbrella Chronicles (Capcom), Dragon Quest Swords (Sqare Enix), Zack and Wiki (Capcom), Harvey Birdman (Capcom), Destroy All Humans! Big Willy Unleashed (THQ), Lego Indiana Jones (Lucas Arts), Okami (Capcom) (okay, I am seeing a trend with Capcom.) But it still stands

Sure there is a lot of shovelware crap on the system, but that is the fault of developers looking for as much cas has possible with as little effort as possible.

A large part of the Wii fanbase is families and people just entering gaming. They are not the hard core gamers. As more hard core gamers buy Wiis we will see more quality hard core games for the system.

To me, the 360 is getting more of the same. Sure the FPS games have better graphics, but they are the same FPS games. The Wii offers a new method of playig the game and getting involved in it. I would rather have gameplay develop faster than graphics.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By kelmon on 1/18/2008 1:05:19 PM , Rating: 3
Things I wish: please take the term "hardcore gamer" and flush it down the toilet of history.

Seriously, what makes a complex game any better than a simple one? The best games have always been the ones that you can pick-up and play, preferably without the need to look at the manual. Depth to a game is nice but complexity is just annoying and life's complicated enough without introducing it to leisure activities as well.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By pomaikai on 1/18/2008 2:26:31 PM , Rating: 2
How is simple always better? It is really simple to go work for McDonalds. Anyone can figure out how to make the burgers easily. Some people actually enjoy a challenge. They like to have to think and improve there skills. They dont want easy, they want to learn and grow. Improve there skills.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By kelmon on 1/19/2008 10:58:55 AM , Rating: 2
I believe that you have confused the terms "complex" with "depth". Let's take an example here of a tennis game using a Wiimote (not sure if Wii Tennis does this). Tennis is nice and simple in that you can just swing the Wiimote left-to-right or right-to-left to hit the ball. However, you can adjust the speed of the return by adjusting your speed, add back spin or top spin by adjusting the angle of the Wiimote in your hand, and perform drop-shots using a chopping motion. The game itself is simple enough for anyone to pickup and play but you can learn new techniques as you go. It's a trivial example but one that I hope shows that a game can be both simple and incorporate depth without being unnecessarily complicated.

Not sure where you were going with the McDonalds example. However, I will say that it's perfectly possible to create wonderful dishes with very simple ingredients and relatively little effort, if you know what you are doing. These dishes would be much quicker and simpler than a McDonalds meal (personally, I'd rather eat the packaging) and a lot nicer to eat. However, I will concede that extravagant meals (particularly from France) will typically beat a simple dish if they are done right. However, a simple dish from a good chef will alway beat a complex dish by a bad chef.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By ezacharyk on 1/18/2008 3:55:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Things I wish: please take the term "hardcore gamer" and flush it down the toilet of history.


True. I used it to simply make a point.

I too enjoy simple to play games. But I also like games that are chellenging. When I said hardcore games, I meant games that are not mini games.

I should have been more specific.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By pomaikai on 1/18/2008 2:45:43 PM , Rating: 1
"As more hard core gamers buy Wiis we will see more quality hard core games for the system."

Is this the same thing you were waiting for with the gamecube? Why wait, just buy a 360 or PS3 to go along with the wii. Thats what I have done. I have played RE4 on wii and it sucks. The controls are horrible. Please explain how to aim and move at the same time. I enjoy Mario Galaxy because the control is different and is challenging.

Like i said before wii is aimed for the "easy to pickup and play" category. Yes it is fun, but you can only develop so much into a game before it becomes to complicated for the majority of the wii userbase. Because of this development is limited.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By kelmon on 1/21/2008 4:48:56 AM , Rating: 2
Again, this argument is without basis or merit. The Wii is not the GameCube. Currently the Wii is, globally, the best selling console and this situation isn't showing signs of changing any time soon. Are you going to suggest that the PS2 had no "pickup and play" games as well as its "hardcore" (*spits*) games? Developers will bring games to the Wii for as many types of people as they can because the demand will be there. However, as I have said before, because the Wii is a different type of console when compared to those that have come before it, it will take time for developers to figure out how best to make those games. What you imply is a Catch-22 situation that does not exist.

Development is only limited by the imagination.

With respect to aiming and moving, this is not exactly difficult. FPS games since Doom have used this with the keyboard/mouse combo and it works perfectly well on the Wii too, if Metroid Prime 3 is anything to go by.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By RogueLegend on 1/18/2008 12:02:14 PM , Rating: 2
One of Wii's biggest weaknesses is it's 3rd party support, but I think there's a different interpretation as to WHY it's a weakness.

The Wii has a lot of third party games that are excellent, but they came to the Wii too late.

Two examples: Godfather: Blackhand Edition and Lego Star Wars.

Both are great and fairly popular games which sold well, but they had already been out earlier and on competing hardware.

I played both on a 360 once, but never really got into them until they became available on Wii- the Wiimote made both games much more immersive and fun than they were on Xbox 360. And neither game lost anything in terms of graphics.

If both games got the hype as new releases, they'd probably show up more on the radar as great third party titles that work well with the Wii.

The biggest problem is that most 3rd party developers are looking for a quick port- since PS3 and 360's biggest differentiator is the graphics engine- the port is probably fairly simple. With the Wii, you have retool the controls because the Wiimote doesn't have the same number of buttons and relies on motion sensing.

On top of that, you have a relatively underpowered graphics processor in comparison to the 360 and PS3. It would make sense that a developer would design the game for the 360, then port over to the PS3; it has more power and can handle any large differences between the consoles through emulation- as a result, you don't lose much in terms of performance. Much harder to do on the Wii. Both are probably why the best games for Wii are from Nintendo.

I will say this, my PS3 is just sitting forlornley in my media cabinet, waiting for a Blu-ray disc to swallow- I haven't played it at all after owning it for 4 months.


By RogueLegend on 1/18/2008 12:20:09 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, one addendum, it seems that Guitar Hero III is one of the exceptions of a new third party game that's selling fairly well on the Wii as a third party title- it's sold over 1.1 million copies on Wii (approx. 350,000 less than the 360).

Another notable title is Resident Evil 4- it's within 220,000 of the PS2 version, again, selling 1.3 million copies.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By wallijonn on 1/18/2008 1:55:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
There are a lot of talented developers out there that all have new ideas or tweaks to make gaming better, but they don't want to touch the Wii because if it is not made by Nintendo it won't sell very well.


Developers will go with the console that has the highest possibility of producing a profit. Many game developers are working on Wii games, trying to catch up.

If the Wii is nothing but a more powerful Game Cube with motion control, most developers already know how to program for the GC. They just have to integrate the controller into the game.

It is the PS3 which likely will be seen as a stumbling block, as it necessitates new kits to be used.

Anyone who questions the usefulness of the Wii controller should demo Super Mario Galaxy at their local store. When a vine grows, stand underneath it and twirl either controller, preferably the nunchuck. On either of the other consoles you'd push 1 button 1 time and it would automatically go up. On the Wii, stop twirling half way up and see what happens. Even though the Wii controller is the closest thing to keyboard and mouse, I doubt that you could replicate that little trick with a kb&m.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By jrb531 on 1/22/2008 11:39:41 AM , Rating: 1
Nintendo could have added that controller scheme to the gamecube.

Yes the Wii has "slightly" upgraded parts over the gamecube but not enough to call it next gen anything!

Just because something is new and people like it does not make it next generation.

If they added the Wii controller scheme to the Gamaecube would you now call the gamecube next gen?

Of course not!

Wii is cheap, fun and a ton of people like it. It's NOT next gen by any stretch of the imagination and, in fact, it's only about PS2 in graphics tech.

It has no hard drive, no HD, does not even play DVD's

The Wii is so far behind the 360 and PS3 that it's not even funny. If Sony and/or MS came out with a Wii type controller and party games it could outdo thw Wii in all areas. This is not their targets. Most people will a Wii "might" buy 1-2 more games for it but that's it' They pull it out of the closet when people are over and then put it away when they are done.

Nothing wrong with this and Nintendo is making a ton of money on them but facts are facts.

Why do people get pissed when people call the Wii what it really is?

Once the Wii sales slow down I see the price dropping to $199 then $150... heck they could prob make a profit at $99 but as long as people will pay near anything for the Wii because it's the modern day "Cabbage Patch Kids" or "Furby" then the price will remain high.

Someday I'll get a Wii myself but I'll wait till the price drops to the $150 range and by then all the game you are paying $50 for each will be $20.

Meanwhile I'll play games on the very best system... the PC which has been in HD (or higher!) for years now with better graphics, multimedia, online support for years now :)

Take a $300 Dell, add a $100 video card and you now have a system that's better than the PS3 or 360 for about the same money.

It also has a mouse, keyboard, more memory, better graphics and is faster.

But calling the Wii next generation... ROTFLMAO!

-JB


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By Murst on 1/18/2008 11:32:59 AM , Rating: 2
You're right... but neither is the PS3 or the 360.

Welcome to the "Current" generation.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By bfellow on 1/18/2008 1:50:41 PM , Rating: 2
I guess that Wiimote isn't as revolutionary as adding HD support then ROFL.

Wii is a direct competitor to the 2 "next-gen" consoles you mentioned and just because having great graphics doesn't mean its gonna be a winner.

For example, Crysis has great graphics but abysmal sales plus the plot isn't that great but people just loved its graphics.


By RogueLegend on 1/18/2008 2:26:14 PM , Rating: 2
I think one thing everyone forgets is that there is really nothing special about current HD implementations- it's just a wide aspect higher resolution than 480 and 576 (for now).

We've been pumping up resolution on PCs now for ages- all it takes is more graphics rendering power anda supported display to render higher resolutions. HD is just a catchphrase for this combined with a wide aspect.

So really, what is percieved as 2 benefits of PS3/360 (HD and higher performance graphics) is really one in the same.

Deep Color and HD audio aren't even a part of HD as a spec, those are part of HDMI 1.3 interface support, and are only optional at that.


By EricMartello on 1/18/2008 5:54:10 PM , Rating: 2
I'd have to agree with pomaikai. The Wii is nothing more than a repackaged Gamecube and a gimmicky controller. Nintendo is profitable, but so would any company that peddles outdated and obsolete technology.

Fun games? The Gamecube has a lot of fun games...but it never caught on. It actually had some pretty nice graphics for its era too! What makes the Wii so special? It comes across as more of a fad. It's not better than the Xbox360 or PS3 technically...are its games more fun? Well there aren't a lot of games out for the current crop of consoles, other than the Xbox360.

What it boils down to is personal preference...but the Wii is definitely not "next gen" from a technical standpoint, which is what defines the generation of game consoles.


RE: Nintendo not next gen console
By Manch on 1/27/2008 5:18:08 AM , Rating: 1
Blah blah blah blah blah

I'm just having crazy thoughts here though but in the context of next generation the Wii would definitely fall into that category and not just in brand name either. If you actually look up "generation" one of the definitions is
quote:
a type or class of objects usually developed from an earlier type
That would fit the Wii perfectly

Sony's GPU is a 7800GTX(G70 core) derivative which is based off of DX9
MS GPU is a hybrid chip that shares DX9 features but also has a unified shader architecture a lot like the DX10 GPU's

So are these two machine now in different generations of the console wars?

Both Sony and MS lack the kind of controls that are built into the Wii so does that make them different generations?

The answer is....No dumbass it does not. Just becuase a console lacks a certain feature doesn't mean it's disqualified from being "next-gen". Just becuase they expanded beyond the traditional market group doesn't make it not.

Your market share argument is Bullshit. MS is trying to get into those different market groups that supposedly according to your logic disqualifies the Wii. So does this make Sony in a class of it's own?

You Gamecube argument is Bullshit. Your bias is obvious. Comparing the Wii to a Vtech? You almost had though with your accurate poll of 4 people! That's pretty convincing!


sony got the $$ but not the profit
By robert5c on 1/18/2008 9:16:57 AM , Rating: 2
Ok so sony's high prices and sale of three different systems gave it the win in terms of the total amount of money it brought it. But with the high cost of the PS3 production, and the fact that until recently it cost more to produce then it sold for, who out of the three big players made the most profit?




RE: sony got the $$ but not the profit
By cplusplus on 1/18/2008 9:23:04 AM , Rating: 2
Probably Nintendo, seeing as they sold the most consoles and definitely sold them all at a profit. We don't know at this pointhow much the RROD issues have affected the profitability of the console.


RE: sony got the $$ but not the profit
By ajfink on 1/18/2008 9:33:36 AM , Rating: 2
Globally, Nintendo without a doubt.


RE: sony got the $$ but not the profit
By BMFPitt on 1/18/2008 10:55:22 AM , Rating: 2
Bought NTDOY at 43 in May, sold at 68 a few weeks back. Profitable enough for me.


RE: sony got the $$ but not the profit
By othercents on 1/18/2008 2:37:48 PM , Rating: 2
With the 65nm Falcon I would say that Microsoft was the most profitable. They only sold 100k less units and should have been running a higher profit per unit sold than Nintendo. Granted there is an article that Microsoft is saying their xbox 360 business will be profitable in 2008 however I think the unit is already profitable, but the overall business (ie RROD) is not.

It is interesting to me that the Wii only out sold the Xbox by 100k units and that the Xbox attachment rate was so high. However this could be because there were not enough Wiis available and people settled for an Xbox instead.

Other


By BMFPitt on 1/18/2008 3:03:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Granted there is an article that Microsoft is saying their xbox 360 business will be profitable in 2008 however I think the unit is already profitable, but the overall business (ie RROD) is not.
Microsoft is - at best - breaking even on consoles at this point. Nintendo makes money on every console sold. And I'm sure they sell a lot more Wii acessories, too. Most people I know with the Wii have 4 Wiimotes and 2 nunchuks, but are are fine with just a second 360 controller and maybe the battery packs. 360 certainly has a higher attach rate, but Nintendo also sells a lot more first party games. When it comes to XBox Live, I'm sure they make up a lot of ground there, especially since it's recurring income.

NTDOY is up 82% in the last year, MSFT is up 7.2% (not that XBox is their core business, though.) SNE is up 9.8% while we're on the topic - basically all of that in the last 3 months.


RE: sony got the $$ but not the profit
By Alexstarfire on 1/18/2008 4:49:01 PM , Rating: 2
Well, what you have to remember is that these aren't global figures, to my knowledge. I am under the impression that Nintendo has been leading the total amount of consoles sold worldwide for some time now.

Anyways, yes it would be interesting to know who made the most profit out of everyone. I would think it'd be Nintendo for actual hardware sales. The software one would probably go to Microsoft though.


RE: sony got the $$ but not the profit
By ElFenix on 1/18/2008 5:38:10 PM , Rating: 2
I bet N still makes more money on software than MS does. nearly all of the good games for wii come from N. so N gets to keep every penny. for 360, a lot of good games are from 3rd parties, who only pay the license/royalty to MS. So, even if overall software dollars lean in MS's favor, the fact that much of that money is not going to MS means than N is probably in the lead there.


By Cattman on 1/19/2008 4:09:29 PM , Rating: 2
While that maybe true... you have to realize that Nintendo has to pay to develop games where MS just sits back and collects the check for third party games.


RE: sony got the $$ but not the profit
By PAPutzback on 1/18/2008 9:57:53 AM , Rating: 1
True. But why isn't the XBOX in the list. I am sure the PS2 is still the leader there but the numbers should be included.


RE: sony got the $$ but not the profit
By GaryJohnson on 1/18/2008 10:01:41 AM , Rating: 2
I thought of that too, but do they still make new original Xboxs and Gamecubes? Gamestop doesn't seem to sell either in any form but refurbished, whereas you can still by new PS2s.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/18/2008 10:11:00 AM , Rating: 2
No. When the X360 was launched, all Xboxes were removed and manufacturing stopped. Microsoft ended the platform intentionally.


RE: sony got the $$ but not the profit
By Chris Peredun on 1/18/2008 10:16:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I thought of that too, but do they still make new original Xboxs and Gamecubes? Gamestop doesn't seem to sell either in any form but refurbished, whereas you can still by new PS2s.


Well, bear in mind that Gamestop (and affiliate stores) would much rather you buy their refurbished/resold/repeat systems rather than new stock or clearance.

Personally, I haven't seen a retail-boxed XBOX since 2005, but the GameCube is still enjoying shelf space at various retail stores.

Typical price is around $70 for the "value bundles" that come with a game. The stores are using them as both
"fallback" and "springboard" sales to the Wii in one fell swoop. "Sorry, we're out of stock on the Wii. But here's a Nintendo GameCube for only $70. You can play GameCube games on the Wii, so go ahead and load up on GameCube games, controllers, accessories ... then come back and buy a Wii later!"

However, finding a retail boxed WaveBird is like pulling teeth.


RE: sony got the $$ but not the profit
RE: sony got the $$ but not the profit
By Chris Peredun on 1/18/2008 11:05:10 AM , Rating: 2
Thanks for the suggestion, but
quote:
Shipping: Currently, item can be shipped only within the U.S.

You'd think stores would be carrying at least a decent supply of them to sell to Wii owners.


By Vanilla Thunder on 1/18/2008 11:11:04 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry Chris, didn't know your location.

V.


RE: sony got the $$ but not the profit
By amanojaku on 1/18/2008 3:56:33 PM , Rating: 2
When in doubt, eBay. http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&...

Seriously, though, discontinuing the Wavebirds was dumb, considering there is no Wii equivalent. Chances are you don't want to use the wired controllers to play GC games on the Wii. I have two Wavebirds and think they are some of the best controllers ever made considering their reliability and performance.


RE: sony got the $$ but not the profit
By christojojo on 1/18/2008 4:17:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Seriously, though, discontinuing the Wavebirds was dumb, considering there is no Wii equivalent


Is it possible the used the manufacturing floor space to build the Wimotes?


By christojojo on 1/18/2008 4:19:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
possible the used


should read: possible Nintendo used


RE: sony got the $$ but not the profit
By ezacharyk on 1/18/2008 11:41:01 AM , Rating: 2
Actually Wavebirds have been discontinued.

http://gizmodo.com/339658/nintendo-wireless-wavebi...


By ImSpartacus on 1/18/2008 2:46:44 PM , Rating: 2
*Sniff* I own a pair of wavebirds and love them. While that brings my total GC controller population up to five, I perfer the wavebirds to the wireds, so that's ok.

I'm surprised they discontinued them. I expected all GC hardware to die with the GC itself (not sure if that's officially happened).


By joemoedee on 1/18/2008 10:09:28 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
True. But why isn't the XBOX in the list. I am sure the PS2 is still the leader there but the numbers should be included.


That's because the Xbox has been discontinued since November 13, 2006. This list is counting those systems still currently being produced and sold.

Xbox ended up around 16 million sold in America.

Gamecube was around 13 million sold in America.


By ViperROhb34 on 1/20/2008 2:06:55 PM , Rating: 2
The figures are on GROSS dollars, not net.
Once you factor in games ( where the money is made )..AS far as CURRENT GEN Consoles:

MS 360 #1 in games sold per console worldwide, Nintendo #2 ..

Those numbers really change things.


360's hay day
By koenshaku on 1/18/2008 11:16:10 AM , Rating: 2
If MS doesn't do anything about japan they could be over taken globally by the PS3 this year. They haven't announced any big titles for 08 they had better get gears of war II out the door or something. Because Sony's big guns are launching this year MSG4, gods of war 3 and killzone. should be an interesting year for MS they need to outsell sony in the U.S and Europe at the same ratio the ps3 outsells the 360 in japan. Nice to see a change in the force though Sony on top was getting boring.

But I am thinking about getting me a Wii myself and I prolly won't buy anything for it but wii play to keep it around as a party console. The thing is approachable by practically anyone kudos to Nintendo, I never thought I would be buying one of their consoles again, because of their stance with younger audiences. As far as the MS vs Sony goes it will all depend on the HD format adoption.

SDTVs will be phased out next year if digital distribution is embraced, that plays in MS's favor being they have already 1up'd Sony there on XBL, but if physical media is embraced then most people will get a ps3 on brand recognition and it can play their HD movies on their fancy new HDTVs as well..




RE: 360's hay day
By BMFPitt on 1/18/2008 11:33:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
They haven't announced any big titles for 08
GTA4 is a "semi-exclusive."
quote:
SDTVs will be phased out next year if digital distribution is embraced
SDTVs will be phased out when HDTVs only cost $25 more to make to make.


RE: 360's hay day
By Bioniccrackmonk on 1/18/2008 2:43:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
GTA4 is a "semi-exclusive."


This is a perfect example of an oxymoron.


RE: 360's hay day
By koenshaku on 1/18/2008 4:51:35 PM , Rating: 2
Actually TV broadcast will only be broadcast in HD next year, if you buy an HDTV now you are eligible for a voucher of $40 from the government..

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/02/hd-stbs-are-n...


RE: 360's hay day
By ElFenix on 1/18/2008 5:45:36 PM , Rating: 2
not quite. TV will be broadcast only digitally starting next year. that isn't necessarily HD. it could be ED, it could even be SD. the children's programming on 13.2 is digital and SD. the weather info on 13.3 is digital and SD. the only HD signal is 13.1. and even that isn't always HD. satellite interruptions get switched back over to the terrestrial microwave system, which only has bandwidth for SD (at least, that is why i'm told that HD sporting events are behind the SD signal). some prime time shows aren't HD yet, and may take a while even after digital only broadcast (i'll note the amazing race as one, that may have something to do with the size of HD cameras vs. SD cameras)


RE: 360's hay day
By theapparition on 1/21/2008 7:01:43 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
TV will be broadcast only digitally starting next year. that isn't necessarily HD

True...
quote:
satellite interruptions get switched back over to the terrestrial microwave system, which only has bandwidth for SD (at least, that is why i'm told that HD sporting events are behind the SD signal).

Wrong. Completely wrong.
DTV channels take the exact same bandwidth as the current analog ones, 6MHz. They take the same bandwidth, because they are in fact the same channels. Currently, digital signals are broadcast in the high UHF frequencies. When the digital switchover happens, those digital signals will move and be broadcast on the existing TV station channels, who will now stop broadcasting analog.
HDTV in full 1080i or 720p glory will still only take 6MHz of bandwidth. 480p signals will take signifigantly less, hence the ability of stations to add sidebands. To use your example, 13.0 is analog (which will be shut down next year). 13.1, 13.2, etc. will be digital. The station is free to use whatever compression they feel is necessary to fit thier shows in the allotted bandwidth. If there is a reason sporting events are delayed compared to the SD feeds (which honestly I don't know is really true) I would guess it has to due with longer encoding time.
Complaining that childrens programming is not in HD is just plain silly, though.


RE: 360's hay day
By Murst on 1/18/2008 11:48:11 AM , Rating: 2
Although Sony does have a lot of good games coming out (I'd actually put FF13 and GT5 at the top of that list), I just don't see them outselling the XBox in the US in the near future (maybe at the end of 2008 - maybe).

They're doing great in the rest of the world, though, as they've outsold the 360 since december.

I think you'll need to see something completely unexpected happen w/ the PS3 for it to start taking over the US market, such as Home being a huge hit or something similar. I just don't think Home will do it.


RE: 360's hay day
By Haltech on 1/18/2008 3:01:32 PM , Rating: 2
although Japan being a huge factor, the PS3 has been behind the entire console race and probably wont bring the PS3 to reach the sales of the 360 worldwide.


RE: 360's hay day
By cmdrdredd on 1/18/2008 9:24:51 PM , Rating: 2
Personally I'm sick of my 360. I won't sell it, but I find it to be riddled with generic shooters and very little else when looking at the games everyone talks about.

I'm looking forward to the japanese developers getting going on releases for the PS3.

Also on the idea of profitability