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  (Source: BusinessWeek)
GM becomes the latest big business customer to consider rejecting Vista

Microsoft, typically known for a self-confident business approach has been sending clearly mixed signals on the health of Windows Vista that are perhaps indicative of the problems the OS is experiencing.  The situation, rather uncharacteristic for Microsoft, which has had a long string of successes, is best summed up in the words of its own executives.

While Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates recently described that Vista was moving units at a "rapid sales rate", Microsoft Chief Executive Officer Ballmer told executives in a recent meeting that Vista was a "work in progress".  The Microsoft designers who made Vista's unpopular User Account Control (UAC) admitted that it was designed to "annoy" the standard user.  Perhaps even more revealing, Ballmer, while praising adoption rates at MIX 08 admitted to problems with the OS stating, "we did make the choice to kind of hurt compatibility, and our customers have let us know that has been very painful."

Vista has not received a much kinder reception with customers.  While much of the blame for poor initial compatibility and problems since rests with third party hardware and PC manufacturers, Vista has been getting blasted for its problems.  Market research firm Gartner said that Windows could collapse if the trends from Vista continue.  The OS has earned Microsoft a major lawsuit for its high hardware requirements, which the plaintiffs allege Microsoft glossed over in advertising.  And fair or not, many customers have turned back to the reliable Windows XP, abandoning Vista, to the chagrin of Microsoft.

Microsoft is also experiencing severe struggles in the business sector.  According to BusinessWeek, a growing number of business are adopting a "Just Say No" policy on Vista, and are waiting until Windows 7, which should be due in 2010.  These companies mostly use XP and a major factor for many of them is that Vista is simply not lean enough for their infrastructure.

Among the latest to jump on this bandwagon is General Motors.  The automobile giant has said that it has encountered so many problems getting Vista to work on its machines that it is likely to skip the OS and wait for Windows 7.  Says GM's Chief Systems & Technology Officer Fred Killeen, "We're considering bypassing Vista and going straight to Windows 7."

Killeen says that the high hardware requirements are the nail in the coffin.  Many of the machines that have trouble running it won't be scheduled to be replaced until 2010 to 2011.  Says Killeen, "By the time we'd replace them, Windows 7 might be ready anyway."

GM, like many larger manufacturers, is also finding that many of its smaller supporting software vendors haven't guaranteed their programs to work in Vista. 

The GM situation is indicative of the market in general.  The end picture is that Vista can run well on only a smaller subset of machines at the average tech business, and much of the software that engineers and other professionals rely on is not Vista-compatible.

Microsoft has sold 140 million copies of Vista, but has failed to match XP's success.  Further, the majority of these copies were not sold individually, but included with new computers.  While customers could in some cases elect to downgrade to Windows XP, this would cost them time and effort, making Vista acceptance for some, more acceptance out of lack of options, as opposed to acceptance based on desirability.  Also, the number includes business customers whose deals with Microsoft automatically entitle them to copies of Vista.  While all these numbers count towards sales, some of these companies have not used their copies as they currently have declined to update.

Mike Nash, a corporate vice-president at Microsoft, disputes that Vista is struggling in business.  He points out that Bank of America, Continental Airlines, Cerner, and Royal Dutch Shell have all adopted the OS.  However, he acknowledges that the OS is selling the strongest among the consumer market.  He states, "We're seeing tremendous transition to Vista, particularly in the consumer space."

Some companies are opting to buy Vista merely to get XP licenses -- among these is Alaska Airlines.  Its 2,000 office workers will be using Windows XP machines, which will be replaced with XP downgraded Vista machines as necessary.  The company’s Senior Vice-President and CIO, Bob Reeder, states, "There's no business value in us continuing to chase that upgrade cycle."

In a recent market analysis it was found that at the end of last year Vista only held a 6.3 percent business sector OS market share, while competitor Apple's OS X held 4.2 percent.  This is not so much a comment on Apple's success as both shares are relatively trivial.  Rather it is more a comment on Vista's struggles in the business community.

The result has led to financial losses for Microsoft.  Sales of its desktop Windows group, its most profitable, slumped 2 percent in Q1 2008.  This led to an 11 percent fall in profits for the quarter.  This spells trouble for Microsoft, which has sustained many of its fledgling offerings, such as the Zune, MSN online offerings, and Xbox 360 through periods of lack of profitability with its Windows profits.

Analysts indicate that Microsoft has two options.  One is to try to improve its profitability in other market sectors, such as its online offerings.  This is tough challenge as Microsoft has struggled online to develop a good strategy.  While Microsoft has recently stated that it feels that it can achieve "independent" success, it has been left playing catch-up to Google for the last couple years.

The other big hope for Microsoft's continued success is for a turn-around with Windows 7.  Early reports on Windows 7 indicate that it's shaping up nicely.  It is supposed to be much leaner than Vista, which should win back some customers. 

While Microsoft is such a sales juggernaut that it can weather below average sales, it always strives for excellence, which has earned it its market position.  Thus it should be interesting to see how Microsoft reacts to the problems with Vista and the poor adoption in the business community.

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MS Neglects Businesses
By mmntech on 5/14/2008 12:04:03 PM , Rating: 5
Lets open the floor to the fanboys saying that this is FUD and Vista rox.

Microsoft made a major mistake by not releasing a lean version like they did with Windows 2000. The business community is not like consumers who buy new systems every two years. They need backwards compatibility and low overhead. They're not going to sped millions replacing thousands of computers every time a new OS comes out. The problem for Microsoft is that businesses still form the core of their market, and they chose to ignore their needs.




RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By virtuallyserved on 5/14/2008 12:29:58 PM , Rating: 2
The problem with these users is exactly as you state it- they're not like the business world. Vista is not even ideal for most end users/consumers as they don't have enough technical knowledge to be able to work through issues such as incompatible drivers, performance tuning for a specific class of system, etc.

Sure there's the idea that you won't "be on the cutting edge" and that Vista offers updated hardware compatibility (supposedly). But this is exactly why this OS should be left to power users and individuals who want to play DX10 games for the time being.

Right now Vista SP1 is just getting around to solving activation management issues for corporate IT infrastructures. But even with this solution, getting SP1 properly deployed can be a headache with the need to update drivers/uninstall drivers to comply with the availability conditions Microsoft has placed on SP1.

I'm not even impressed with XP SP3. Overall, it seems that the code that Microsoft has produced in the Vista era is very underwhelming.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By TheDoc9 on 5/14/2008 2:49:28 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps they can throw more skilled workers from overseas at the problem. As you can see, it's worked out well so far.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Samus on 5/14/2008 7:00:10 PM , Rating: 2
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but either meaning is actually funny


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By jonmcc33 on 5/14/2008 12:30:39 PM , Rating: 5
I don't see why this isn't a FUD type of article. Jason Mick pointed out every negative he could and not a single positive. That's a pessimistic view and designed to spread FUD.

Windows Vista doesn't really use up that many resources and it's not hard to upgrade if you really have that old of computer systems. If you have something that old anyway there's a good chance that it's no longer under any warranty. That means if your system dies it doesn't have Windows XP on it anymore anyway and you lose productivity.

In regards to "backwards compatibility" you need to understand that changes were made to make the OS more secure. If this breaks compatibility with older software then so be it.

The biggest need - with all the malware, viruses, trojans, spyware out there - is more security. Without moving totally to Linux I'd say Windows Vista is the best alternative. We already know that Mac sure isn't.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By 306maxi on 5/14/2008 1:53:56 PM , Rating: 5
I bet if OSX broke someone's old software that would be a feature that Supreme Overlord Jobs would advertise as being the best thing since sliced bread. But when it happens with Windows it's a bad thing.

Rule of thumb when Jason Mick reports on his bog.
Problem with OSX = Feature
Problem with Windows = Issue intentionally written into Windows so that Bill Gates can get more of your moneys and can devote it to evil monkey research which means Bill is even closer to setting off an unholy army of monkeys upon us to enslave us and force us to do Bill's bidding.

Or something like that.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By MonkeyPaw on 5/14/2008 8:18:13 PM , Rating: 5
My (medium-sized) company skipped Win2K completely and jumped from NT4 to WinXP. According to this article, that must make Win2k garbage. We also just upgraded to IE7 and Office 2003 last month, and those aren't exactly new.

The point is, major software migrations for large companies is a huge deal, and it costs lots of time and money (our migration to XP took 3 months to roll out). Big companies have old PCs, old software, and lots of idiot users who will immediately panic as soon as their start button changes. To just jump to the next OS like a home user does simply doesn't happen. Software has to be tested, hardware has to be qualified, and lots and lots of money has to be spent. Just think how much time and money this will cost a company that has 1,000-10,000 PCs. That's why it's not at all uncommon to skip a software generation whenever possible.

Anyone who thinks that decisions like these are made based on anything other than cost-benefit just don't know any better.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By borismkv on 5/14/2008 10:35:48 PM , Rating: 5
Mick wrote this? Oh...pfft *leaves and ignores everything he just read*


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By phusg on 5/15/08, Rating: -1
RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By William Gaatjes on 5/15/2008 6:53:48 AM , Rating: 2
The point is that Apple did a smarter job. They made a new api but still support the old api next to it. They serious promote the use of their new api and because it is faster better , new important features they have something to sell to their customers. Something the customers want to use cause the customers see possibilities to make money. The old api because of this will be less and less used.

Microsoft made a new api but it seems it is not stable enough and does not has features enough to justify. There is your problem. Companies want backward compatability cause their bussiness depends on it.

With home customers it is less of a problem using for example dual boot for a while to solve compatability problems.

Companies have no need for heavenly drm-ed operating systems. In Companies computers are used get the work done, not for entertainement.

But afcourse everybody knows that a hypothetical vista system with a lot less drm and without huge memory requirements would be faster and thus would find it's way very fast to the home user.

Backwards compatability is what made microsoft big.
And backwards compatability is what holding them back.

I am sure that if you gave them the chance to start with a clean os and with a clean api they would so today.
The whole win32 api is maybe too huge with too many quirks too emulate properly or they would have already done that.
Emulating also solves security problems if done properly.

There are many reason why vista is what vista is.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By phxfreddy on 5/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By SeanMI on 5/14/2008 2:35:27 PM , Rating: 5
What do you NEED? I don't know what YOU specifically need, but here are plenty of things other people/corporations need...

Bitlocker Drive Encryption

DirectX 10

Client Side Extensions for Group Policy Preferences (which are awesome BTW)

Client side caching (offline files) which utilizes bitmap differential transfers (MUCH faster client to server sync times)

A more secure crypto algorithm for the secure channel established with 2K8 servers.

MUCH improved event logging including CAPI2, group policy, winlogon, etc.

Now, minus DirectX 10, I've specifically mentioned items that would appeal to the corporate customer. I've also tried to stay away from controversial features like UAC. I can continue listing things if you'd like. Oh, and you can freakin disable AERO!!!


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By JAB on 5/15/2008 2:01:11 AM , Rating: 2
Good post. There are actually tons of good features on Vista that you never hear about. The cost vs benefit it a tough one for vista though. We just replaced some the computers with Pentium II and III CPU's in mission critical jobs. We still have some running because it can cost 60,000 dollars to replace each one due to all the validation and license fees.
The advanced features in XP are not properly used yet I dont see them being well used in out org before Vista is replaced.

The vast majority of our computers are Core 2 Duo with at least 2 GB of RAM bought this year but others cant be replaced for any reason no matter how old and overstretched.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By robinthakur on 5/15/2008 8:35:38 AM , Rating: 2
Bitlocker Drive Encryption = third party tool can perform this on Xp

DirectX10 = You specifically don't mention this in the corporate space, but even in the consumer space its been a bit of a flop up to this point.

GPO Client extensions = Agreed important feature, but only really improves manageability, not a business driving feature.

differential caching = Only really noticeabcle if you work offline for extended period of time (i.e. executives) most have network connectivity most of the time.

More secure crypto Algorithm... = This can always be retrofitted and I can't think of anybody who would base their expansion plans on this. Server 2k8 and client pc's generally operate on a secured corporate network anyway with IDS's, firewalls and the whole shabang. This is unlikely to affect the godawful problem where accounts lose their secure channel in AD.

Event logging = Yes agreed this feature is much improved. Is it easy to sell this feature? No.

I'd also add, ease of deployment (on multiple DVD's for us when not using network install, sheesh!) and Office 2k7/SharePoint/Server08 integration to the list.

While these items do appeal to corporate environments, I wouldn't think that they are killer apps if their XP environment is working fine. They are very difficult to build a business case around unless its corporate policy that you have a set upgrade path. The incompatibilities with older apps is a very important stumbling block as very many orgs use older, maybe bespoke apps, and don't operate in the MS utopia. Many companies follow way behind the technology curve also and are displeased with MS's policy of having to reactivate every 180 days.

My company was in a fairly late phase of planning the Vista deployment then read all the recent hoohah about Windows 7 (Made worse by MS) and decided to shelve it permanently. We are rolling out Office 2k7 though. I wish I could say that this is an abberation, but actually I know a number of large co.s doing the same. Whilst people in general are no more likely now to serivously consider Linux or OSX (sorry fellow apple fans) for client machines, one of the most telling things is that MS looks a bit shaky in its resolve these days without Bill at the helm being highly visible like he used to be. This only engenders its clients to feel slightly uneasy and hesitant when it comes to upgrade...


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By SeanMI on 5/15/2008 10:08:04 AM , Rating: 3
Bitlocker - A third party tool can do almost anything...That doesn't make Bitlocker any less of an important feature. The fact that it integrates with AD and allows you to delegate recovery permissions to members of a help desk is a huge selling feature.

GPO CSEs - Woah...improving manageability isn't a business driving feature? Huh? Isn't that what INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY is all about? Maintaining and managing information?

CSC - Scenario: You're an exec on an extended flight and you're accessing some 300MB of Excel files using the client side cache while you're not connected to the network. When you get to your destination, you VPN in, start to sync files, and realize CRAP! This is going to take forever! Not if you're using Vista! Only the edited bits will be copied to the server. You just saved your Exec 3 hours (oh, and you pay him $150 an hour...I think you just paid for his copy of Vista).

Event Logging - I'm no sales guy, but I'm glad you agree it's a much improved feature. Cause it is :)

And yes, you're correct about the integration with the products you mentioned. As a matter of fact, I was assuming Server 2K8 is in use because of the cryptographic algorithm I mentioned as well as the GPP. In the end, I think Server 2K8 will cause more companies to upgrade to Vista. It was like this with XP as well. As soon as 2K3 hit BAM, XP everywhere. 2K8 has been publicly available since what, March? Give it until the end of this year, and let's have this discussion again :)


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By jonmcc33 on 5/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By SiN on 5/14/2008 3:49:42 PM , Rating: 3
Flexability, Support, Userfriendlyness, Productivity.
Not that Linux doesn't have flexability, support, usrfriendlyness, productivity. But you will find Windows has executed it better. Untill linux can execute it better most people will choose windows.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By jonmcc33 on 5/15/2008 7:13:14 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not saying that Linux is better over Windows by any means. I gave up using Linux myself, just not as easy as using Windows.

My point is why would someone even ask why you need Windows Vista over Windows XP? Haha, people rated my comment down. They must have misunderstood it.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By bryanW1995 on 5/14/2008 11:05:05 PM , Rating: 1
user account control, how can you live without that!!!???


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Belard on 5/15/2008 4:45:19 AM , Rating: 2
Duh... Vista has the really cool animation to watch while it unpacks ZIP files or moves them across USB.

I love this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEvD9RHlccc

But both PCs aren't the same. The Vista system is on a faster core2 tech(1gb) vs a single core P4 for XP (512mb).

That why this is vista: http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l264/KiLotr/tech...


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By boogle on 5/15/2008 5:49:43 AM , Rating: 2
There's a bug in Vista with regards to zip file handling which is partially fixed in SP1.

Either way XP's zip functionality is way, way slower than WinRAR. So would it be a fair test to compare WinRAR on Vista with the built-in util in XP?

Vista has it's issues, but cherry picking certain advantages / disadvantages does nothing for anyone. If you go down that route, even OS/2 or DOS can look amazing.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Griffinhart on 5/15/2008 3:05:35 PM , Rating: 2
That doesn't mean Vista is broken, that means the included Zip extractor is bad. The included Zip extractor isn't very good at all. But, I use 7-Zip. It's free too.

I just did my own test. I took a zip file that was 22mb zipped and 56Mb with 1400 files unzipped. Using Vista's extraction tool it took about 20 seconds to extract the files. Using 7-zip it took about 3 seconds to do the same.

Considering that you need a 3rd party zip utility if you want to create zip files anyway I don't see why this is so damning. Oooh noooes, I need to use a free zip utility.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By bangmal on 5/17/2008 2:54:49 AM , Rating: 2
Here is a nice feature:

The volume mixer allows you to control the sound source individually, for example, when I am browsing and listening my favorite songs, there are usually some annoying pages with sounds that you do not know how to turn off. Vista allows you to mute the noise on the site but not your music.

Under XP you can only either turn off everything or suck it.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By OxBow on 5/14/08, Rating: 0
RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By mondo1234 on 5/14/2008 2:52:45 PM , Rating: 1
Vista sales only accounted for 40% of new computer sales. Hardly Stellar. I like how one day MS says Vista sales stink, then other days, Vista is selling "Briskly". If they are selling as great as MS says, why discontinue XP? Its just free money for MS.

Bottom Line:

Friends dont let Friends use Vista

OK, you can mark me down now!


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By bangmal on 5/17/2008 3:04:19 AM , Rating: 2
If they are selling as bad as you haters say, why discontinue XP? Its just free money for MS.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By jonmcc33 on 5/14/2008 3:28:43 PM , Rating: 5
Security improvements a laughing stock? Is that why hackers couldn't get into it no matter how hard they tried until they exploited some Flash vulnerability?

Sorry, Windows Vista is far more secure and safe to use than Windows XP is.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Reclaimer77 on 5/14/08, Rating: 0
RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Sazar on 5/14/2008 5:20:47 PM , Rating: 4
This same vulnerability is available in any system with that application installed. Had the "hackers" decided to go into the Ubuntu system with the same hole, they would have been able to.

The operating system has been out for almost 2 years since the early beta days and I have yet to hear of a mass exploit available for the OS, only about random 3'rd party applications. I think that speaks volumes for Vista and it's security.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By mars777 on 5/14/08, Rating: 0
RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By jonmcc33 on 5/14/2008 7:52:14 PM , Rating: 2
No, that was not when Vista was brand new.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,143962-pg,1/arti...

It was in March and the Windows Vista system had SP1 installed on it. It took a lot of help and the person that did it, Shane Macaulay, has previously worked for Microsoft.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By bangmal on 5/17/2008 3:08:19 AM , Rating: 2
You newbies should learn that SP is not something magical, it is merely a package including the previous updates + some more new updates. Its purpose is to help the new adopters or even better for the OEMs to ship the new computer pre-SPed. you understand?


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By jonmcc33 on 5/28/2008 8:09:31 AM , Rating: 2
Newbies? Service Pack 1 for Vista was a lot more than previous patches/updates rolled into one. Perhaps you need to read up a learn a thing or two...especially before you go calling someone else a "newbie"? You understand?


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Clauzii on 5/14/2008 6:29:23 PM , Rating: 3
And that totally depends on the type of protection the user adds to it (firewall, antivirus, spam/spy-killers).

The biggest threat to a system is the one in front of the keyboard.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By MRwizard on 5/14/2008 9:19:33 PM , Rating: 1
'140,000,000 ' And how many of those are downgrades?


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By The0ne on 5/14/2008 2:28:55 PM , Rating: 4
So you're saying companies with thousands of employees should implement Vista, upgrade their hardware and software to get it to work, spend thousands of dollars to support it and gain how much from using it? Do you realize how much money this will cost? And it's not a good idea to always be getting the latest, not unless parts are going EOL as it were with the pentium CPUs back then.

And what about the support cost? You have the training, the increase in manpower and most likely decrease if calls settled down, 3rd party softare updates, licenese udpates to have the software work with vista, etc.

I'm sorry you don't grasp all the aspect of deploying something so minor as Vista on a PC. It's definitely not cheap.

From this standpoint, what are the goods from it? Prettier desktop? More secure (compared to XP)? Easier migration? Less desktop support? The later, in my opinion, is not so easy. I'm an advance PC user and I find myself climbing a steep learning curve for both Vista Ultimate and Office 2007. Too me minutes for all other OSs, excecpt linus, but Vista and Office is a pain for me. Granted some of you have a easier time grasping the changes.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By jonmcc33 on 5/15/2008 7:20:40 AM , Rating: 2
Companies? No, I wouldn't target them specifically although I know a lot of additional Group Policy options were added to Vista. I'm just not familiar with all of them ATM.

You completely misunderstand where I come from if you don't think I grasp the big picture when it comes to an OS upgrade. I was in the USAF when we upgraded thousands of computers from Windows 2000 Pro to Windows XP Pro. I was also there for the upgrade from Windows NT to Windows 2000 Pro. I am well aware of what it takes.

My point is that the FUD that is used as a reason not to switch is rather moot. It's the same FUD used in articles like the one we're talking about here.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Reclaimer77 on 5/14/08, Rating: 0
RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By jonmcc33 on 5/14/2008 3:38:36 PM , Rating: 5
True, but they were all of the negative facts. Not pointing out positive facts shows that someone wants to concentrate only on the negative in order to spread FUD.

It would be the same if all I did was point out all the negatives of any Linux distro and not pointing out a single one of the well known positives.

The best alternative to protect yourself is to be a competent PC user? Sorry, the only way to protect yourself without putting up massive barriers is to not connect your computer to the internet. The Windows XP firewall offers zero outbound protection. Spybot is a joke. What, no AV protection?

Besides the fact that Windows Vista (advanced) Firewall offers the ability to control outbound protection you also have User Access Control, which is far more than just clicking a button.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Reclaimer77 on 5/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By robinthakur on 5/15/08, Rating: 0
RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By wallijonn on 5/14/2008 3:28:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
In regards to "backwards compatibility" you need to understand that changes were made to make the OS more secure. If this breaks compatibility with older software then so be it.


Businesses use Proxy / Firewall servers along with email servers which scan for viruses, so security built into an OS, in a business environment, is moot, pointless and useless.

likewise, if security is paramount within the Vista OS, then it may be better if I set up my own Linux based proxy/firewall/virus scanner box and then connected my XP machine to it. I figure any single core P3 or P4 could run those apps under Linux with a gig of mem. Which is exactly the types of machines that people are throwing away.

Exactly how much is an Enterprise OEM Vista license? Figure the big corporations have a 50,000 user base. Figure a 3 year hardware refresh cycle. Since Vista has been out a year, figure that many will need to refresh in two years. That's just about when W7 comes out. So why not wait? If W7 guarantees downward compatibility then it becomes a no-brainer. If it doesn't, then they can leap into 64 bit apps and fore go the headaches (although it may very well be 'headaches delayed'). .


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By bodar on 5/14/2008 3:54:23 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Businesses use Proxy / Firewall servers along with email servers which scan for viruses, so security built into an OS, in a business environment, is moot, pointless and useless.


Crustacean security is not real security. At all. You fail.

Here's an article, while I go back to work:
http://www.networkworld.com/columnists/2007/bradne...


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Reclaimer77 on 5/14/2008 4:29:08 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
likewise, if security is paramount within the Vista OS, then it may be better if I set up my own Linux based proxy/firewall/virus scanner box and then connected my XP machine to it. I figure any single core P3 or P4 could run those apps under Linux with a gig of mem. Which is exactly the types of machines that people are throwing away.


Hell a p3 or p4 ? Check out Clark Connect software. Its a streamlined Linux security router/firewall distro that runs great on just about anything. I bought a Pentium I shitbox at a garage sale and have been running my home network off it ever since.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Reclaimer77 on 5/14/2008 5:11:28 PM , Rating: 2
lol I got down rated for telling someone about Linux firwall software ?


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By omnicronx on 5/14/2008 5:17:05 PM , Rating: 2
you probably got rated down for using the word shitbox


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By omnicronx on 5/14/2008 5:17:33 PM , Rating: 2
yep definatly the reason..


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Clauzii on 5/14/2008 6:34:52 PM , Rating: 2
LOL!

I once used some f-word, and the instant I posted, it got rated down (5 sek. MAX!!)

Ouch ;)


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By killerb255 on 5/21/2008 12:30:18 AM , Rating: 2
I think profanity automatically rates the post as default minus 1 (usually 1 instead of 2)


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By darkpaw on 5/14/2008 5:25:02 PM , Rating: 2
It seems any post with an explative is automatically rated 1 after it is first posted.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Reclaimer77 on 5/14/2008 5:29:13 PM , Rating: 2
Ah, oh well my bad. If there was an edit feature *cough* I could fix that :)


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By michael67 on 5/14/2008 6:55:28 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I don't see why this isn't a FUD type of article. Jason Mick pointed out every negative he could and not a single positive. That's a pessimistic view and designed to spread FUD.

I don't read any FUD in the article but but a statement of the facts as businesses look at Vista.
2 friends ask me to come along to a technet meeting for the roll out of win server 2008 whits is a interesting product.

During the meeting ware a bout 800 net-admins ware present the speaker talked for about a half hour a bout all the nice things of Vista working together whit win2008, when he asked how many had switched over to Vista "20 sec of complete silents" after that he ask how many ware planing to roll out Vista there was a other 20 sec of dead silents, then the whole room laughing because the speaker realized that he just wasted 30 min on something no one wants and Vista is really seen as a lemon no one wants.

Every net-admin i have spoken to is saying the same thing, Vista is just to bloated, and it got a to high learning curve "Dude ware is my uhhhh..... everything"

MS just got it wrong whit Vista and ware XP is still seen as the best OS for the office. its also a testimony how well XP was designed.

quote:
In regards to "backwards compatibility" you need to understand that changes were made to make the OS more secure. If this breaks compatibility with older software then so be it.

A security system that's so annoying that lots of people turn it of because they feel it makes there system unworkable yeah that really makes your PC a lot saver.

I my self also tried out Vista and cant find any advances over XP that justify upgrading to it and found that my PC felt mouths slugyer then when i was running XP so i downgraded, last time i did that was whit win ME and tell me that one also didn't suck.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By jonmcc33 on 5/15/2008 7:37:16 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
its also a testimony how well XP was designed.


I'd hope after 7 years that an OS would be well designed. Funny that it doesn't stop Microsoft from continuing to release patches to fix it.

quote:
A security system that's so annoying that lots of people turn it of because they feel it makes there system unworkable yeah that really makes your PC a lot saver.


More people leave it on than you think. Most people won't get UAC notifications unless they are installing software. It's still there to protect your computer system, which is more than what Windows XP has. I leave it on myself as well.

Funny, Apple used the same fear tactic towards UAC in one of their ads. It's like people hate the extra measure that it takes to be safe and secure. Apple can claim a more secure OS but hackers targeted Leopard and broke into it before they did Windows Vista.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By calaverasgrandes on 5/14/2008 9:05:02 PM , Rating: 2
In the last year, I think the amount of core duo or better desktops I have seen in corporate environments is about 5%-10%. most of them are Pentium D or older. A lot of PIII's are still out there! Considering that your average user doesnt do anything more taxing than check email and maybe run a few office apps, there hasnt been a big need for desktop processing power until Vista came along. the only places I have seen users (successfully)demanding more CPU muscle is over at the bio-pharms. One company I know of just chucked a bunch of perfectly good core 2 duos in favor of Intel quad cores.

Another factor to take into account is IT support for vista. Besides getting all your desktops up to snuff to run vista, you are certainly going to need to hire a few more guys to deal with all the problems the users will have adjusting.

Besides security, what other compelling arguement does vista have? Its one of the same reasons Apple has made no inroads in the corporate world. Why change whats working? XP SP2 works. And when it doesnt most of its pitfalls are well documented.

Honestly XP64 should have been given more of a chance, than it would have helped to transition to vista better.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By BansheeX on 5/14/2008 12:30:58 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. There is too much pointless visual fluff driving up requirements. WTH does a 2d interface need 3d acceleration for? Nothing new and useful, just weird window manipulation to play with. When Windows XP came out, the filesearch feature included an animated dog that jumped around for a few seconds before and after a search. MS intentionally bloats stuff up for no reason other than to force obsolescence and make the new product "different" and more marketable. A new Word processor to buy every few years? That's a ridiculous interval for such an application and anyone with a brain knows it. I rest my case.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By BansheeX on 5/14/2008 12:42:01 PM , Rating: 1
And before some MS nut attacks me, I'm not suggesting that MS should never release a new product and only update old products. I'm simply saying that they choose overly aggressive intervals because of their dominant position in the market. It's a way to make some extra money. This is quite clear when you look at the history of their OS updates. Everyone knows how stupid ME was, but anything they release is sure to sell so why not? Since they're not likely to gain any competitors anytime soon, we simply need to identify when this occurs, rather than take up the sword like a raving fanboy and defend everything.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By JustTom on 5/14/2008 2:03:16 PM , Rating: 4
It was over 5 years between XP an Vista, hardly a short product lifespan for a software product.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Shark Tek on 5/14/2008 12:53:10 PM , Rating: 2
I remember this MS GEEK showing how great are the effects that came with Vista. But I almost make him cry when I show him Fusion installed in a OpenSuse 10.2 64 bit O/S.

And the funniest thing is that it runs smoother in low end hardware using more complex animations.

MS you just Fail with Vista. I hope that they can get on track with Windows 7 and make a more stable and productive O/S.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Belard on 5/15/2008 4:56:13 AM , Rating: 1
There is nothing wrong with 3D... if done right. There are things you can do with Linux with its 3D desktop that smoke vista and don't require a top end PC to do it. look it up on youtube... Like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPecBxM2f6c (FF to 2mins for Linux).

I used to have a tinny 80k thingy that made Windows95 have a 3D desktop "space". And there are add-ons to make XP look like Vista that are only a few megs big... much smaller than XP's 2GB foot print to Vista's 10GB room size bloat.

Since Vista is just a skin job & high-res backgrounds... that all it really should have been... no super DRM crap, etc. DX10, yes to help games for desktop computers... and have XP skins too, oh yeah, bug fixes and the Search box in the start button. That's it. Then Vista would have been 99.99% compatible with the hardware and software out there.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By jonmcc33 on 5/15/2008 1:16:45 PM , Rating: 5
3D pales in comparison to multiple monitors. I've found no use for the 3D cube and every use for multiple monitors.

Vista is far more than a pretty skin, DX10, bug fixes and a Search box in the start button I'm affraid.

Vista is not 10GB. It's 7GB after install and half of that is for backwards compatibility (when you run apps in Compatibility Mode) so it's really a 3-4GB install which isn't bloated by any means even on an 80GB hard drive.

Truth. Kills FUD dead.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By chromoplastic on 5/14/2008 12:56:27 PM , Rating: 3
The problem with XP is that it's the most popular OS ever. And after SP2 is a good one too. Stable and, with the power of todays hardware, very, very fast.

For a better OS MS should break compatibility, because most of Windows bloat is to maintain compatibility with every hardware and most of well written software. Apple did it... twice! When they changed to PowerPC and recently when they changed to Intel's x86. And if the first time it was a nightmare for Apple users, this time it was less problematic because Apple used Roseta. I think MS should go this way, trough virtualization tools that everybody use today (look at now VMware's Thinstall), and that even MS has (Virtual PC).

And let's face it, why should a company that uses Office, some ERP or something like that, needs to upgrade from XP?

I use Vista 64 from the beginning and after some problems with nVidia drivers it runs rock solid, but i have to admit that it doesn't do anything that XP wouldn't do.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By crimson117 on 5/14/2008 1:08:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I use Vista 64 from the beginning ...but i have to admit that it doesn't do anything that XP wouldn't do.

It runs DirectX 10, for what it's worth.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Reclaimer77 on 5/14/2008 3:00:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
For a better OS MS should break compatibility...


Massive compatibility is one of the main selling points of Windows. I can't agree that this would be a good idea for Microsoft. Its not working out so good for Apple is it ?


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By chromoplastic on 5/14/2008 5:29:31 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe i didn't explain myself clearly. I mean that MS should drop compatibility natively in Windows, but implement it via some sort of emulation or virtualization. Apple did it with some success with Roseta and even Sony is doing it by emulating PS2 in PS3 by software.

More simply they could include XP inside Vista or something. I run some command-line utilities in XP Fundamentals for Legacy PCs inside VMWare and it runs 100%, so MS can do it even better because they own the code.

It could be some sort of additional Vista version.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Locutus465 on 5/14/2008 1:37:04 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps I'm missing something? Windows 2000 was released in a "Proffesional" i.e. workstation version and a host of different server versions up to "data center" designed to meet differing needs.

Technically, windows XP had the same kinds of releases though starting with XP the server varients no longer shared the marketing name with the workstation varient, i.e. Windows Server 2003 v. Windows XP Professional.

Vista is no different here, if you want to run vista as a workstation in a corperate setting then you run Windows Vista Business (the most basic version) or Windows Vista Enterprise (more feature rich). If you want to run it on a server then use Windows Server 2008.

Did I miss something? Seems to me like the vista line actually offers more choice meaning what your talking about probably isn't one of the reasons why business are skipping vista.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By bangmal on 5/17/2008 3:19:54 AM , Rating: 2
You are right. Win2000 are meant for workstation/servers.
Vista for home users. vista' variant is windows server 2008.

Those ignorant hating boys keep making me laugh


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By onwisconsin on 5/14/2008 2:17:28 PM , Rating: 2
I like Vista...only for my PERSONAL use. It will not be practical for business until Windows 7 comes out, so it is only logical not to get Vista. No way it is a big enough upgrade from XP to be practical to upgrade, even if they are buying new machines.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By PrezWeezy on 5/14/2008 3:01:55 PM , Rating: 5
I'll jump up and say it's FUD. 90% of the Vista "problems" are because of the media. I work in the IT business sector. My company supports over 50 small businesses with 50-60 PC's each. We have been phasing in Vista as we buy new PC's and haven't seen any problems at all. UPS doesn't work on Vista, which is totally the fault of UPS and NOT MS. But I can't think of a single other program that doesn't work on Vista that we haven't been able to solve.

Let's face it people, Vista is not the problem. When Windows 3.1 came out the hardware requirements were enormous. And then again with 95 because you could actually do multi-tasking. Again in 2000 you had to have better hardware to actually run it well, and XP also bumped up the video need. Vista is no different than any of the other OS's that have come out and I firmly believe that it is the media, and not MS that are the problem here. They have to sensationalize everything, otherwise people wont watch.

There is a basic Vista install that doesn't take much memory, video, or CPU. In fact Vista makes MUCH better use of the memory you have. The reality is that where XP would try to put as little as possible in memory, where Vista loads as much as it can and then releases it when it's needed.

As for UAC, the last version of RedHat that I used about 4 or 5 years ago had a version of UAC that popped up and asked for a password EVERY time you needed Root authority. No different than what Vista does, and yet everyone keeps saying that they should move to Linux. Why? What is the advantage? Anything you save on software you spend on maintenance, not to mention it is extremely unsecure OOB.

I'm sick and tired of people blasting MS for "screwing up Vista" when I support a very large number of desktops and I see no issues with it that weren't there with any other upgrade, or are not the fault of a 3rd party. Stop blaming Microsoft, they don't control everything. All they can do is put out the best product they can make and then it's out of their hands. Anyone who supports as many PC's as my company is welcome to tell me I'm wrong, but if you are some yahoo out there who has just been reading the press releases and hasn't actually dug into Vista, keep your comments to yourself.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By nitrous9200 on 5/14/2008 5:53:01 PM , Rating: 2
I guess that's common among Linux distros, I installed Ubuntu just to try it out and EVERYTHING needs a password: updating, changing settings, even changing the time.
Plus you can't get everyone to like Vista, but I know a bunch of people who have it and love it. I installed the betas on my lowly desktop and it ran great. But some people just like to bash Microsoft for whatever reasons they can think of.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Hoser McMoose on 5/14/2008 11:46:42 PM , Rating: 3
It's not just Linux, OS X uses almost the exact same thing as UAC too. It's simply a good idea from a security standpoint. The only thing wrong with UAC is that Microsoft SHOULD have done it years ago!


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By jonmcc33 on 5/16/2008 7:28:50 AM , Rating: 2
Then why does Apple bash Microsoft's implementation of it in their ads? The good part is that it's actually beyond just a prompt for admin authentication. There's a lot more to UAC than most people realize.

If anything, Microsoft should make the prompt less intrusive. No need to darken the background and whatnot. Just come up with the UAC prompt. IIRC, SP1 for Vista has helped tone down the many extra UAC prompts as well.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By The0ne on 5/14/2008 6:54:07 PM , Rating: 2
I don't disagree that the media is part of the blame for some users bashing Vista. I like Vista but it's not a worthwhile upgrade for me from XP nor is it a wise decision for most of the people/clients I advise to wait.

I can't see how one can make comparisons to old technology and software. Back in 3.1 and 95 you have hardware that wasn't increasing at a rate that we have been seeing. We're seeing CPU speed jumps in 33Mhz. Memory requirements were low, software programming were efficient due to the limitations of what was available (hard drive size, floppys, etc.). And Windows95 can't do multitasking. Windows can't do multitasking at all..or rather can't do it very well. You really have to have utilize multitasking capabilities to really appreciate how beneficial it is. Imagines rendering in the background, playing music, downloading, multiple apps open and all that while you're playing a game that runs just fine and dandy with no slowdown. Now take that a bit further and imagine REXX scripting and you have yourself one powerful multitasking machine dated so many years ago ;_; Multitasking is truly beautiful when done right and astounding to programmed, I assumed the later :) I've only done parallel assembly programming for microboards.

And it's great that your company has successfully supported other small businesses in their Vista migration but supporting is just a part of the deployment process, in which case is not all the cost nor the hassle. And if you haven't seen "any problems at all." I think you're lying. No OS is perfect and since most of the users are regular users one will eventually do something no one would have ever thought possible.

I don't even want to go into the advantages/disadvantages of Vista/XP. The article is about deployment, abit more FUD I agree. Still, the point for large companies is whether or not it's a cost effective decision.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By PrezWeezy on 5/15/2008 2:53:04 AM , Rating: 2
To start, I would agree that "multitasking" isn't a reality yet. In fact the CPU switches back and forth between programs. That being the case I would say that my point is made even stronger by the leaps and bounds that hardware is taking. Vista came out with large demands because it was known that it would be a very short time before those requirements were not only standard for new PC's (which they are now) but that hardware wouldn't take long to become affordable.

I also agree very much that upgrading from XP to Vista doesn't make any sense. However, for buying a new PC I wouldn't recomend anyone stick with old technology. If you are buying a new PC, get Vista with it.

As far as my not having "any" problems, I suppose that was written poorly. I have not had any problems that are out of the ordinary. I certainly don't have any more problems than I've had with XP. Hope that clears up what I meant a bit.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By jonmcc33 on 5/16/2008 7:35:18 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Windows can't do multitasking at all..or rather can't do it very well. You really have to have utilize multitasking capabilities to really appreciate how beneficial it is. Imagines rendering in the background, playing music, downloading, multiple apps open and all that while you're playing a game that runs just fine and dandy with no slowdown.


Windows Vista supports SMP and Windows has supported it since Windows 2000 Pro. Get a quad core processor and watch Windows multitask like crazy for you. You can even assign an affinity to processes. There is a limited number of physical sockets that it can support but there is no limit to the number of cores (processors).

I assume that you want the OS to control it all and automatically balance the CPU load over the applications though, correct?


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By chick0n on 5/14/08, Rating: 0
RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By ranger203 on 5/14/2008 5:31:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
GM, like many larger manufacturers, is also finding that many of its smaller supporting software vendors haven't guaranteed their programs to work in Vista.


This is exatcly why I cannot put Vista in with many of my clients. Some run $$$ custom software designed in ~2004, that worked on Win2k and all XP including SP3, but not Vista or SP1. I use Vista @ home, but then again, to buy the newest AV and a few other titles to support Vista isn't a big deal for 1 PC.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By encryptkeeper on 5/15/2008 9:17:54 AM , Rating: 1
Anyone who says this article is just FUD needs to remember: The advantages of Vista really don't matter on the corporate level because they often can't get it to work with their software or hardware. Think about it, if I had a car that went 300 mph safely, got 90 miles to the gallon, was virtually dent proof, nearly invulnerable to steal or vandalize, BUT I could only drive it on 5% of the roads in America, it'd be pretty useless to me wouldn't it?


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By Hiawa23 on 5/15/08, Rating: 0
RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By masa77 on 5/16/2008 11:23:45 AM , Rating: 2
Business customers want a solution that works and results in minimal downtime. Who cares about 1000 features, when you only use a handful of them and those you do need must work flawlessly. What good are all the bells and whistles if core functionality is worse than the previous o/s? I pulled Vista out of our environment because it's simply too much hassle to deal with all the bugs - and there are a lot of them. XP was stable, so it's rather pointless to 'downgrade' to Vista and waste valuable time on a product that gives the business consumer nothing in return.


RE: MS Neglects Businesses
By kmmatney on 5/19/2008 6:25:39 AM , Rating: 2
I agree. I just went throught the painful process of getting one of my programs Vista compatible, only to find that one of my third party support programs won't be Vista compatible until the end of 2008. After that I'll need another few months to qualify things, so realistically I'm about a year away from releasing a Vista compatible version. I'm ready to skip Vista altogether and wait for Windows 7...


Why not?
By jonmcc33 on 5/14/2008 12:08:25 PM , Rating: 2
It's okay, these businesses can stick with an OS that is less secure than the upgrade alternative. When they suffer from data or financial loss due to any number of viruses that infect their outdated systems then they will see the bigger picture.

Oddly enough the same thing was said about Windows XP back in the day. People using Windows 2000 were going to skip Windows XP and wait for Longhorn (now Vista).




RE: Why not?
By Quiescent on 5/14/08, Rating: 0
RE: Why not?
By jonmcc33 on 5/14/2008 12:39:45 PM , Rating: 3
Aero is negligible and can run on onboard video smoothly as long as it meets the minimum requirements. It's not the reason to switch to Windows Vista by any means.

Compiz is Linux only and uses OpenGL to render so even the crappiest video can use it, although lower end hardware does suffer in performance. It's also nothing but fluff and offers very little to improvement in desktop management or improving productivity. Alt + Tab is all I need for quick application switching. I sure don't need rotating cubes and 6 different desktops to confuse me. If you need more space get widescreen and/or multiple monitors.


RE: Why not?
By AlphaVirus on 5/14/2008 3:09:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I sure don't need rotating cubes and 6 different desktops to confuse me. If you need more space get widescreen and/or multiple monitors.

I never understood the need for the rotating cubes with multiple desktops. Do you really need that much to impress people who know nothing about computers?

"Oooh cool you can cube your desktop? Man you are too smart!" -Average user, in which they are also fascinated by how smart you are for increasing the refresh rate on their monitor. >_<

Multiple widescreens makes a heck of a difference if you need more space at work and home.


RE: Why not?
By Quiescent on 5/16/2008 10:39:42 AM , Rating: 2
That's not all that Compiz has. I have it on my Ubuntu partition. It does some wacky stuff. But it's like Mac OS X stuff. Ha, look, Linux can do it better. (I knew someone with a Macbook Pro that was slow and dying from just the glassy, overdone, Compiz like stuff!) And it does work on the Eee too.

I don't see a use for the cubes either. I just use the ALT-TAB feature that shows a thumbnail of the windows.

And I'd get two monitors if I had enough space for them on my tiny Wallycrap desk and my 10x12 foot room! (I have a CRT monitor sitting ontop the shelf thing on my desk... That shelf thing looks like it's about ready to go any minute, haha! And if I do get monitors, I absolutely love the Viewsonic VA2026W. Nice color. Great resolution... I do need a setup like that for Fruity Loops Studios. I run out of space quickly in 1028x1024!


RE: Why not?
By AlphaVirus on 5/19/2008 3:56:06 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, I don't know what I would do if I was still on a CRT. They take up way too much space as soon as you get in the 19" and higher. Also once you get above the 1280x1024 resolution, you will never go lower. I am upset that my tv does not go any higher than 1280x1024 for my pc usage. I game on my HDTV from my PC, but sometimes the low reso gets on my nerves.

Also I would never shop at Wallyworld for any furniture, they usually pick the lowest grade of quality just to say "Low prices". And your 10x12 room is not that small, you better appreciate that, people in New York have $200,000 700sq Homes. You might laugh, but its true.


RE: Why not?
By Quiescent on 5/16/2008 10:31:50 AM , Rating: 2
I was just giving an example. I can do that too with XP, I can do that too with Linux.

I certainly already gave another example of why I wouldn't use Vista. (The bloatware!) XP has bloatware too. In fact, I am enjoying my nLited version of XP on my EeePC, that I want to use it on my desktop too. (No popups telling you useless crap that you may already know, I disabled the menu popup delay option which is why over time it slows down even more, now my menus pop up just as fast as they do on Vista, I took the defragmenter out because I don't need it on the Eee, but I'll take that out because I use other software to defrag on my desktop, etc)

I really hate the interface of explorer, to be honest. It's certainly been awhile since I've used Vista, but I do remember it being a pain to go through folders, I like typing it up in Explorer sometimes.

I found the layout of the control panel to be unorganized (not my organizational taste!) and that is why I still use the old skool layout in XP too. I prefer to see my icons and what I want to see instead of trying to figure out which catagory the thing you want to go to is in.

I did enjoy the layout of the start menu, but that is minuscule since I disabled the delay popup menu in XP, and have no problems navigating the start menu on my Eee.

Downrating me for my beliefs is pretty pathetic. I only gave one example. But I can offer you only this: For me, I have seen enough of Vista. Every laptop or computer at school with it on always have some kind of problem. The computers without Vista on them, but Office 2007 have some kind of problem right after installing Office 2007 (program conflictions is one example). It's a nightmare, and I don't want to deal with something that I don't have to.


RE: Why not?
By Mitch101 on 5/14/2008 12:49:10 PM , Rating: 3
XP has been great but XP64 bit? I had less support for XP64 than for Vista 64.

While even my company has stated this originally to pass on Vista this was pre SP1 and a few of us using the OS are rethinking this because Vista since SP1 has been significantly better than when it was released. We all use Vista Ultimate 64 bit editions at home and Vista Buisness edition.

Even myself a die hard XP guy finds himself crippled because XP doesn't have items that I find very useful in Vista on a daily basis. Items that would crush my XP box keep chugging in Vista. PRE SP1 I had trouble keeping Vista alive.

Not adopting Vista I would believe is for several reasons.

1. Lazy or poor IT departments. You know the ones who have trouble getting XP to work as it is. Ones who think NTLDR is missing requires you reload/reimage the machine instead of running FIXMBR.

2. Companies who have legacy applications which are old or too costly to license upgrades for. Some of you companies out there should be banned for your high cost upgrades. Especially those who changed their billing model to bilk companies for more money with your revised per user models for products which do the same job over and over. Part of this issue falls upon #1 because they don't run the apps in a legacy mode to find out it will work.

3. Too much legacy hardware which wont run the OS properly. Which is fine because you should migrate Vista in with a Hardware refresh anyhow.

4. The company is preparing or is part of the recent recession. Whether you believe it exists of not some companies are looking to cut the budget anywhere and this is an area effected.

My Thoughts
XP is great but its dated and if you use Vista for a while it grows on you. PRE SP1 I hated Vista. Come on Gigabyte with my darn Vista 64 USB drivers already although the Microsoft ones are working I think performance can be better with true drivers.

Vista is a bit aggravating at first but after a week to a month you start getting into it. Its a much bigger step than it was from Windows 98 to 2000 or XP.

Before SP1 I would be talking like you and say stick with XP and Stardock no need for Vista. But now I really like it.

As a side note: MY VISTA MACHINE THE OTHER DAY SAID IT FOUND MY DIRECT TV HD-DVR. Not sure what it can do yet because I had to run out the door but I thought this is cool.


RE: Why not?
By Quiescent on 5/14/2008 7:12:46 PM , Rating: 2
I have had no problems with XP 64bit since I've installed it in 2006. It has given me absolutely no problems and my boyfriend has a wider range of seeing no problems than I. No games have any problems. No applications have problems. P