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The Comcast skyscraper, rising high above Philadelphia.
Comcast testifies in data discrimination case

Comcast found itself on the stand yesterday, facing harsh scrutiny and pointed questioning from FCC commissioners during a summit held at the Harvard Law School in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

The topic: how ISPs are allowed to control their infrastructure under the FCC’s edict of “reasonable” network management, a term which, currently, is only vaguely defined. Public outcry prompted the FCC to revisit the topic when the AP discovered last October that Comcast actively meddled with P2P traffic by impersonating users’ computers – an unusual practice that many consider above the law – in an effort to conserve customers’ bandwidth usage.

Both during the summit and in prior statements, Comcast defended its tactics as necessary to protect the collective quality of its customers’ Internet experience.

At one point, FCC Commission Chairman Kevin Martin asked Comcast Executive Vice President David Cohen why his company felt it necessary to block customers’ P2P traffic when customers were acting within the contractual constraints sold to them.

“Doesn’t that undermine the argument you’re making?” asked Martin.

In response, Cohen read from a list of frequently asked questions that the company provides to its customers, to which he quoted that “Comcast may on a limited basis temporarily delay certain P2P traffic when that traffic has or is projected to have an adverse effect on other customers' use of the service.”

“I don't think we're restraining the customers from using the service in accordance with the way we're selling it to them,” replied Cohen.

Commissioners Michael Copps and Jonathan Adelstein continued to press on Comcast’s management policies, calling for tighter rules against overly aggressive network management.

“Comcast does not block any Web site, application, or Web protocol, including peer-to-peer services, period,” said Cohen. “What we are doing is a limited form of network management objectively based upon an excessive bandwidth-consumptive protocol during limited periods of network congestion.”

“Consumers need to know if and how network management practices distinguish between different applications, so consumers can configure their own applications and systems properly,” said Martin in an introductory speech [PDF]. “Consumers have alleged that these [ISP] practices have not been transparent … these are very significant issues. The seriousness of it is one of the reasons we’re holding this hearing – to hear from all sides.”

Martin said the summit’s intent was to approach the issue with an informed and open mind, and promised to withhold any action for the future.

“Hearing from experts today, as well as commenters in the record, will allow us to better monitor this market and determine the extent to which providers are acting consistently with our [Internet policy],” said Martin. “We can best fulfill these responsibilities by being fully informed.”



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Comcast is like a crazy B!tch!!
By JamRockaz on 2/26/2008 10:42:23 AM , Rating: 5
I can't believe it, I called comcast the other and the rep basically told me that if I have a 350GB hard drive clone that I want to transfer to my server I would get flogged because the upload would exceed a 1 hour session.
the rep told me that they flog accounts that have an upload session of 60 minutes.

The rep gave me an example that a guy was having a online video conference that past the 1 hour limit and his account was flogged for that. now tell me, what kind of Bull Sh!t is that? the rep said as long as it stays under 1 hour sessions everything will be alright.

with the example he gave me: lets say I'm having video conference with 5 of my other bosses from my home (using comcast's optimum online) and the meeting is going for 55minutes. Should I tell my bosses that my isp will flog my account if I don't end the meeting within the 60 min mark? what craziness is that?




By Polynikes on 2/26/2008 11:39:08 AM , Rating: 2
That's ridiculous. See, it isn't just P2P traffic, they're all about limiting users' bandwidth.


RE: Comcast is like a crazy B!tch!!
By Methusela on 2/26/2008 11:49:22 AM , Rating: 2
Comcast would say your scenario requires a Business Class connection, and I'd have to agree if that scenario is common. You might even have a decent argument to get your employer to pay for it, or at least subsidize it.


RE: Comcast is like a crazy B!tch!!
By Grast on 2/26/2008 12:20:09 PM , Rating: 4
Methusela,

While I have been giving Comcast some leyway in their assursion regarding network management. That is a bogust awnser. If you look at the packages, the only diffence between the Optimum package and the business package is a static IP address and the ability to host services on the account.

I would say that using your account for video conferensing is not hosting services but rather using the previously payed for bandwidth.

I have no problem with Comcast using established network management protocols such as quality of service and packet management to optimize their network. However to penalize an account for usage on an UNLIMITED account service is just wrong.

Comcast is trying to strong arm its customers instead of upgrading their infrustructor. Lets be honest here; The only reason Comcast is going this direction is due to the direction on demand services is moving. Comcast is trying to set up precedence for offering UNLIMITED service but provide LIMITED. This allows more bandwidth for on-demand type products and limited their need to upgrade infrustructor.

Since the Comcast infrustructor is based on share bandwidth. It is no wonder they are just now starting to have issues with bandwidth managment.

Just my two cents.

Later..


By sgtdisturbed47 on 2/26/2008 1:12:17 PM , Rating: 2
I'm glad I just went with Roadrunner's best package available, the 15 Mbps down/ 2 Mbps up. I bet RR will start doing this, and I just hope that I won't be affected.


RE: Comcast is like a crazy B!tch!!
By DM0407 on 2/26/2008 1:57:15 PM , Rating: 2
I recently broke a cable modem, because the A-hole who installed in tightened up the coaxial cable to the point of no return. I belive this is done so a "tech" can come to your house whenever you want to move a wire (for a 35 dollar fee and a 3 week wait).

I happened to have the exact same modem from a previous provider that was given to me through a promotion. I called Comcast 3 times and was hung up on all three times. When I called the fourth time and asked for a manager I finally got a straight answer. It would take 3-4 BUSINESS! days to activate.... This was on a Friday and I was on call for work.

I finally decided to go to a local store to bitch someone out in person. I was then told that they could not exchange the broken modem (that i lease for $4 a month) becuase it was not active in the system, the one I owned that they would not allow to run, was considered active and thus i could not exchange a non active modem..... This is the best part. To exchange it the modem would have to be put back online ( a few more calls) and verified by a rep..... THE MODEM IS BROKEN AND WILL NOT GO ONLINE! After a threat to write to the BBB and Consumer Report I was allowed to exchange the modem (another drive to the store) and would not be reimbursed for my gas, time, cell phone minutes or even the 3 days I was without internet (49.99 / 30 x 3days is almost $10 lost).

But ofcourse, where else can I get broadband speed? Verizon is another year from providing Fios in the area. If I could afford to boycott Comcast I would.

Thank you for this bitch session.


By Alexstarfire on 2/26/2008 7:07:57 PM , Rating: 2
Ok, I know that is sucky, but I haven't had that happen. In fact, we've been using our own modems for years. We had to change out our old one, which they call a spaceship, cause it's so crappy. BTW, it's called a spaceship because of all the holes it has in it. Anyways, it took them like 2 days, on a weekend to get it verified and all that. I'm not sure what takes them so long though. They must have some guy running around Comcast with a clipboard comparing numbers.

BTW, $49.99 * 3 / 30 comes out to $4.999 even. I agree that you should have gotten some money back for all the hassle though. Pain in the ass they can be sometimes.


By winterspan on 2/27/2008 7:20:18 AM , Rating: 1
Welcome to the United Corporations of America. Why would you possibly need more than one cable internet provider? Oh, you're not happy with your service or the pricing? Well, thats too bad. I would love to help, except we deregulated both cable and DSL internet service so providers don't have to sell wholesale services to other resellers that wish to offer consumer service over the same lines , in effect creating a state mandated monopoly for each service. I know it must really suck for you, but hey, we have to do something in return for all of those campaign contributions... otherwise how would we continue to get elected? Anyways, I have to run, I have a tee-time with some oil industries friends from K street. Bye-bye.

Sincerely,
republican congressman


By eye smite on 2/26/2008 11:39:04 PM , Rating: 4
I don't think that's the point he's making here. If he's paying for an unlimited home package at a certain speed he should always get that certain speed regardless of the traffic he's passing. In other words, Comcast is selling you an unlimited package with restrictions. It's just retarded.


RE: Comcast is like a crazy B!tch!!
By FITCamaro on 2/26/2008 12:16:33 PM , Rating: 2
What exactly do you mean by flogged? As in canceled? Or did you mean flagged?


By callmeroy on 2/26/2008 12:41:06 PM , Rating: 2
Thank you...lol

The whole time I reading that guys post and seeing "flog" or "flogged" I'm thinking "What the flog is he talkinga about?"

In over 10 years of IT work I've never, not once see the terminology as flog or flogged.....(its flag or flagged)...of course I'm really not this anal and I'm just busting stones...LOL...


By RIPPolaris on 2/26/2008 2:38:13 PM , Rating: 2
I assumed he meant that Comcast representatives came to his house and spanked him with a paddle. At least that's what I visualised.


By Christopher1 on 2/26/2008 7:09:43 PM , Rating: 2
Now, I download more than one hour at a time and I haven't heard anything from Comcast at all..... something tells me that you are buying the BS of a lower peon on the totem pole, and automatically taking it as the truth.
When someone tells you that, you should IMMEDIATELY ask to speak to a supervisor, because it is usually a LoC.

Comcast doesn't do any of what you are saying, at least in my area, according to friends who work for Comcast and work as their network admins.... they just don't do that stuff, and if someone tells you that they do, they are just trying to inflate their importance and giving you false information.

The 'reset packet' thing..... they do that, I know they do and have been told by those same friends that they do.... but some of my friends told their bosses that they were going to get in trouble over this, and they didn't listen at all.


I really hope
By Macuser89 on 2/26/2008 10:23:46 AM , Rating: 5
I really hope that they wipe the floor with Comcast for this. As a monopoly Comcast should not police the internet in any way, they should provide the bandwidth and thats it!

Their use of the Sandvine product to manipulate Bittorrent data, is just a way for them to screw there customers that get their money's worth out of the services.




RE: I really hope
By UsernameX on 2/26/2008 10:47:50 AM , Rating: 2
I work for Comcast. As far as I'm informed they do not police the internet right now.

But I do agree... I hope it never happens.


RE: I really hope
By dever on 2/26/2008 3:20:08 PM , Rating: 2
Is Comcast a monopoly? I'm not using Comcast anymore, and I have broadband internet.


RE: I really hope
By AntiM on 2/26/2008 3:55:33 PM , Rating: 3
I think they should be able to do some filtering. Why should my pipes get clogged by some illegal file sharer? Like they have said, a majority of the bandwidth is being consumed by a minority of users. As long as this continues, nobody will be getting their money's worth. Bandwidth hogs affect us all. I do agree that if they are going to hinder P2P traffic and/or throttle bandwidth, they should plainly advertise their policies so people can choose not to use their service.


RE: I really hope
By wetwareinterface on 2/26/2008 4:32:45 PM , Rating: 2
your pipe isn't being clogged by p2p traffic. it's being clogged by comcast refusing to upgrade the backbone and the major nodes in their network. instead comcast is investing money on packet shaping hardware to sniff out traffic types and restrict those types. it has nothing to do with how much bandwidth an individual is using over p2p or http or ftp. it is simply comcast trying to stop the use of p2p which they see as a major loss of future cable t.v. revenue. they are using a velvet lined lead glove on the left hand to protect the business model on the right hand.

the problem is comcast is supposed to provide a minimum amount of bandwidth per their contract with you. that bandwidth usage is "unlimited" other than it depends on external factors such as your maximum available throughput and shared load over the node system they employ. when they restrict certain types of packet traffic based soly on the fact that it is a specific app they are interfereing with the ability for an individual to achieve the potential bandwidth and hence the "unlimited" usage they promised in their contract. which is why consumers are pissed. imagine if they bloacked all streaming .flv content next because they see large network usage in that area. that means no youtube videos either. and if someone goes "hey that's fine by me i don't watch youtube anyway, and it just means all those video watchers aren't hogging all my bandwidth" and you happen to like youtube you'd be pissed off at comcast. irregardless if it means a faster overall connection for you in future or not comcast cannot be allowed to gain any ground on this point as it would mean the beginning of far higher rates for any streaming content as that is the model that comcast is trying to establish a precedent with this. they want to be able to charge extra for streaming content similar to on demand but over the broadband connection. if they can fight the "evil p2p" bandwidth hogs now they have a precedent to stand behind in future to block other traffic they want to charge extra for as a "service" later.


RE: I really hope
By joex444 on 2/26/2008 6:55:25 PM , Rating: 2
Your pipes aren't clogged. That's the problem.

They filter this traffic based on the premise of providing better service to people not using torrents, which mind you are a legal way to distribute various softwares -- and these get filtered as well. The trouble is that in every place I've lived, and used Comcast cable internet, I've never once said that the Internet seems slow while doing no big deal web site browsing or http file downloads.

You know what I conclude from that? Their nodes are not clogged. They have clean pipes.

You think Comcast actually has a free right to the Internet? They service all their cable connections through some even more ridiculously fast connection which they don't own. They don't want to pay more for this than they need to, so they filter out what they don't want to pay for. Assume torrents contain illegal files (which is true almost all the time), and filter it to the point that customers won't try to even use it anymore, and then their bandwidth bill drops. Meanwhile, they don't lose customers, so profits go up.

I'm not very much into conspiracy theories, but just be aware that every single company is out there to screw you. And the ones that say they won't, well they actually rape you.


Au contraire, eau claire.
By napalmjack on 2/26/2008 10:35:28 AM , Rating: 4
It's nice to see the FCC stepping in.

However,

Since when has the FCC stood for anything other than censorship and repression?

To me, it's kinda like the fox investigating the chicken coop.




RE: Au contraire, eau claire.
By qdemn7 on 2/26/2008 6:04:14 PM , Rating: 2
I think the FCC is seeing the political handwriting on the wall. There's a very good chance the Democrats will control all of Congress and the White House come 2009. The old "censorship and repression" rubbish will fall by the wayside and the FCC will be expected to start doing their job properly.


RE: Au contraire, eau claire.
By KenThomas03 on 2/26/2008 9:23:51 PM , Rating: 2
You don't know very much about the history of the FCC do you?


Clemens
By xKeGSx on 2/26/2008 9:44:47 AM , Rating: 1
I could only imagine Comcast looking a lot like Roger Clemens during his hearing. I just hope they don't have the same tell.

"If he licks his lawyers' lips, bet the motherf*cking ranch"




RE: Clemens
By The0ne on 2/26/2008 1:36:50 PM , Rating: 2
Without competition, this type of behavior is going to continue for many years. Roadrunner isn't any different as they charge $50 for the internet service. The promotion is $29.99 but it's on a limited time (6 or 12 months) and they give you a hard time if you disconnect and connect as though YOU'RE the one ripping them off >.>!

I like to see more competition to reduce some of these ridiculous acts by the companies. They can do it because who else is going to take the business away.


RE: Clemens
By Zoomer on 2/26/2008 8:57:48 PM , Rating: 2
You can always threaten to go with earthlink instead. They have the same promo. If they refuse to budge, just go with earthlink.


what complete bs
By rudolphna on 2/26/2008 1:05:42 PM , Rating: 2
that guy is a complete liar. Not too long ago, i downloaded a 18GB File through utorrent, and it uploaded fine. However, when it was done, and i wanted to let it seed... what do you know? It wouldnt go above 20kb/s, and it was not steady... the peers kept getting dropped, and the upload speed was jumping around like crazy... i looked it up later, and turns out Comcast uses an application called "Sandvine" to prevent comcast customers from seeding. that guy is lying out his ass, to save it. Not to mention comcast cuts off customers who use their service. You pay for unlimited internet, you should be able to download at the maximum speed for as long as you want, without fear of getting service suspended. Comcast sucks.




RE: what complete bs
By Christopher1 on 2/26/2008 7:21:28 PM , Rating: 2
You can, at least in my area. I download about 100GB-1TB a month (less lately, because of less on the internet that I find attractive and that isn't available for sale in the United States in some fashion), and I haven't gotten cut off or even had a phone call from them for 4 years now!

The people who are having problems with these people telling them "You have to stop downloading/uploading or we will cut off your service!" should immediately ask to speak to a supervisor and tell the supervisor exactly what the other person said.

When I did that 4 years ago, the one time they bothered me..... the guy who told me that got fired because he was overstepping his authority and calling customers with no reason to call them that Comcast had given him.


Where is DOCSIS 3.0 ?
By teckytech9 on 2/26/2008 8:29:01 PM , Rating: 2
The FCC should mandate that Comcast deploy the DOCSIS 3.0 standard ASAP. Also mandate DOCSIS 3.0 with "symmetrical" downstream and upstream bandwidth capacity at upwards of 100/100.

Since downloading content will be the main method of consuming media (perhaps also the demise of BD), traffic shaping won't have to exist, at least for now, with DOCSIS 3.0.

Comcast risks losing their customers to Verizon FIOS symmetrical service, which is just around the corner, the longer they wait and keep playing the traffic shaping game.




RE: Where is DOCSIS 3.0 ?
By Shadow Conception on 2/27/2008 4:18:42 PM , Rating: 2
Then Comcast would be making money off of the rest of the U.S. that is either uneducated about FiOS, or doesn't have it implanted in their neighborhoods. I myself am on Comcast right now, and it seems to be the only service that spans the entire universe (seemingly, here in Northern Virginia). FiOS is available in some parts of the area, but we've yet to be covered.

And then we also have Verizon DSL available, at a meager offering of 3000/768, compared to Comcast's 6600/768.

I suspect we will soon, though. 50 miles south of D.C., 10 miles from Manasas; and we're not exactly an insignificant area either. Or maybe that's just my opinion since I want FiOS so bad. ;)


Bad Comcast
By Alexstarfire on 2/26/2008 10:06:18 AM , Rating: 2
I hope something finally gets done about this. They may not outright block any traffic, but they sure do a hell of a lot to hinder it sometimes. I feel that it shouldn't be hindered at all anyways. If they can't provide what they advertise to ALL customers then they need to do something about it. You may not agree with that since it's actually a small majority that is using up a lot of bandwidth. You have to remember, however, that bandwidth usage will only go up, not down. If they want to put download caps on their lines, then so be it, but at least give us a number and not some arbitrary figure that you have to guess at. All I know is that if they put a download cap on their lines, it better be high. Like 500 GB high.




a way to end it all
By HighWing on 2/26/2008 2:15:34 PM , Rating: 2
From all this I am surprised that no ISP company has just come out with an advertisement stating we guarantee a MINIMUM speed of XX with no traffic filtering. Hell i dun care if the min speed is 1.5mb I just want to know that when I want to use it I can better estimate how fast it will be.

at least IMO that seems like what everyone is really interested in, and the first company to advertise that for a reasonable fee would probably get a huge user base real quick.

btw is it just me or does it seem like Comcasts "SpeedBoost" actually throttle downs large downloads?




Comcast Sucks
By joker380 on 2/26/2008 3:59:05 PM , Rating: 2
This is a perfect example of why one company should not have all the power. I lived in NY until recently and in my area FIOS and RR was available i had RR and i was very happy with it no cap or anything although their upload speed sucked. But now i am in virginia at my cousins place and he has COMCAST and i felt sorry for him. One thing i dont understand is all the Network's are going online videos so how are the people able to watch it when company's like comcast is in the middle of it all. Well IMO Hollywood should interfere cause this is against their interest. COMCAST SUCKS COMCAST SUCKS.




Comcast Supporters Club
By numbnuts on 2/27/2008 3:57:20 AM , Rating: 2
Did you read this ..

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/13064.cfm

According to this story Comcast bused in a load of people to take up seats so Joe "P2P" Public couldn't get in.




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