Print 41 comment(s) - last by radializer.. on Sep 13 at 4:44 AM

The Indian city of Mumbai hopes to fight terrorism by installing keyloggers

All Internet cafes in the Indian city of Mumbai will have police-sanctioned key-logger software installed on their machines to help combat terrorism.  With a population of 13 million residents, cafe owners only in the city of Mumbai will be forced to install the software.

All cafe owners will be forced to register and receive a city license from police headquarters, reveal the number of PCs located in the location and Internet protocol (IP) addresses for all of the PCs.  Any cafe owners who do not register can be fined, with harsher punishments possible.

The announcement follows bombings in Hyderabad and Mumbai that were reportedly organized in Internet cafes.

"The police needs to install programs that will capture every key stroke at regular interval screen shots, which will be sent back to a server that will log all the data," said Vijay Mukhi, India Foundation for Information Security and Technology president.  "The police can then keep track of all communication between terrorists no matter which part of the world they operate from. This is the only way to patrol the net and this is how the police informer is going to look in the e-age," he added.

Privacy experts and bloggers around the world point out different methods criminals can use to remain anonymous.  A CNET blog indicates the use of proxy servers and Tor could be two potentially popular methods to get around the keyloggers.

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and who's fighting the invasion of privacy?
By Comdrpopnfresh on 9/11/2007 1:24:21 PM , Rating: 2
This wouldn't fly in the US

By Gul Westfale on 9/11/2007 1:27:39 PM , Rating: 5
right. in the US they'd use wiretaps.

By Verran on 9/11/2007 1:43:52 PM , Rating: 3
Yup, and they wouldn't wait for you at a cafe either, they'd go straight to your home line. And they wouldn't need a warrant.

By FITCamaro on 9/11/2007 6:49:46 PM , Rating: 4
And the day something happens which was co-ordinated on the internet by terrorists here in the US, you'll blame the government for not doing enough.

The government will be this horrible entity to you people regardless of what they do and what happens.

RE: and who's fighting the invasion of privacy?
By JasonMick on 9/11/2007 1:37:34 PM , Rating: 5
I don't think this is a horrible invasion of privacy.

These are PUBLIC computers.

Who would look at confidential materials/pornography/any other personal documents on a public computer?

Just because the police/gov't has installed such a keylogger doesn't mean a hacker hasn't.

I never trust public terminals.

As the article mentioned there are work arounds, as well, but still you would not want to use a public terminal for private business.

I do think the gov't of India should compensate cafe owners in some way for compliance, as it is likely a chore to do.

Do not get me wrong: I am firmly against all monitoring of private lines, be it phone lines or internet connections, but I feel that once you cross into the public domain, your actions are in public and can be reasonably exposed to the law enforcement agencies.

Typically those who hide behind public terminals and would fear this development are performing malicious actions.

RE: and who's fighting the invasion of privacy?
By psychmike on 9/11/2007 2:23:36 PM , Rating: 5
Internet cafes don't use public computers, they use privately owned computers rented out to the public. There's a world of difference between entering into a contract with someone who stipulates their own conditions for use verses a government imposing their restrictions.

I don't buy the arguement that only people who have something to hide should be afraid of scrutiny. There are many things that I do that I do not want others to see or know about because they are silly, embaressing, meant just for others close to me, etc. The onus should be on those who want to violate my privacy to demonstrate to the courts through a warrant application why my rights should be curtailed.

I'm sure casting a really wide net will curtail terrorist activity. Hell, it may even cut down on other offenses like drug distribution, kiddie porn, etc. Asking people to provide ID for walking on the street will probably stop a lot of crime too. I wouldn't have anything to hide there either but there is something very dangerous about the state treating its citizens as potential enemies. It often leads to the belief by those in power that their interests are the same as the state's interests and that anyone who disagrees is a terrorist / criminal / fool. Dissent is healthy and necessary in a democracy and this does nothing to encourage open and free speech.


By PrinceGaz on 9/12/2007 10:12:08 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Would anyone here ever use a computer in a library or internet-cafe to buy something online, entering their personal credit-card details. Anyone? Nobody with any sense would anyway.

I personally feel that when using such computers, it is best to assume key-logging and similar software may well be installed, and never enter personal information on them.

By dever on 9/11/2007 3:57:30 PM , Rating: 5
These are PUBLIC computers.
Maybe this is the problem with the world. People assume that anything they don't personally own is PUBLIC.

By geekgod on 9/11/2007 4:03:44 PM , Rating: 2
All of this makes perfect sense when you own a computer.

A lot of people in India don't own a computer, or if they do own one, most of them suffer horrible connection speeds. Cafes are the only alternatives in such situations when you really need to get things done, quickly.

Also, the screenshots on regular intervals being sent to the servers?? I think that would bring these cafes to a standstill, due to the bandwidth issues.

If I had to guess, I would say this is just another way to make quick money for the software and hardware vendors....

By FangedRabbit on 9/12/2007 11:27:46 AM , Rating: 2
It is not an invasion of privacy if on a public computer. Many of you seem to forget that a computer is a luxury item and most people don't technically NEED it. The computers in cafe's are for entertainment, not bill paying, ebaying, E-mailing...etc.

I would never submit any login information while on a public's just stupid and dangerous. You don't know who's sitting on the network with a packet sniffer capturing all that information anyways, so you should never even risk it.

Not to mention that anyone that really NEEDED a computer for work, business, etc, would own their own and not be using a public cafe.

This will however put a huge damper on the ability of terrorist cells to plan and organize as public computers are their preferred means.

RE: and who's fighting the invasion of privacy?
By Vile2600 on 9/11/2007 2:01:58 PM , Rating: 2
LOL, right...Thanks for the laugh.

Google "USA Patriot Act" and Wiretappings...

By Christopher1 on 9/12/2007 2:30:04 AM , Rating: 2
Which were just overturned by a Federal Court, in case you didn't see the news recently. The courts have done their job, they have told the feds that they HAVE TO HAVE A WARRANT FOR ANY WIRETAPS, period and done with.

Now, the Patriot Act should not have tried to give them that 'no warrant necessary' power in the first place, you would be right there, but there are a LOT of laws that the legislature passes that don't fly in a court of law.

By mostpatriotic on 9/13/2007 2:20:19 AM , Rating: 2
Your not too bright or don't live here in the States. The rights of a citizen are an after thought here. Congress makes blatently illegal laws then the judiciary takes it's sweet time to act if they do at all. An inefficient checks-and-balances system is the same as a nonexistant one. The states were bought and paid for eighty years ago so they don't exist in any capacity but to nod in agreement.

Nothing less than tyranny

See enumerated powers found in Article 1 Section 8 of the United States Constitution,

Red herring...
By TomCorelis on 9/11/2007 2:31:15 PM , Rating: 2
Looks like terrorists will have to shell out for their own internet connections then--sure internet access may be a bit pricey in India but I'm sure it's easily financed by your average extortion/kidnapping/arms/drug smuggling ring. Oh, the high cost of crime!

How exactly will this combat terrorism again?

RE: Red herring...
By subhajit on 9/11/2007 3:34:00 PM , Rating: 2
What you don't understand is that to get a Internet connection you have to get a landline or use a CDMA/GPRS based service and for either of them you have to register with a valid photo ID card (like passport or voter id). The terrorists are mostly foreign nationals and it's not that easy for them to forge such documents, also they can be traced easily if they are registered users.

RE: Red herring...
By theprodigalrebel on 9/12/2007 9:06:09 AM , Rating: 2
I live in Hyderabad and all I needed to get an Internet connection was a $25 installation fee for the guy to run a cable from the switch to my window.

RE: Red herring...
By myhipsi on 9/12/2007 12:16:34 PM , Rating: 2
I totally agree.

This kind of security measure does nothing to stop terrorism but does everything to take away the average persons right to privacy. It's like the situation with APEC in Sydney, Australia. The government spent $128 million on security. Sydney is in virtual lockdown as a result. As a prank, a bunch of guys from the Aussie show "Chasers war on everything" got within 12 meters of the hotel Pres. Bush was staying in before they got arrested. They did this by pretending to be diplomats from Canada. They got a bunch of black Suburbans and had guys in black suits run along side to make it look "official" and made there way through 3 layers of security until finally being stopped within 12 meters of Bush's hotel. To make the best of it, there was a guy dressed up like Usama Bin Laden in one of the cars. This demonstates that even hundreds of millions spent on security really does nothing to stop a group with the resources and know-how to get though security, not even a group doing it for a joke. Ditto for banning liquids at airports, or making people take their shoes off. It does nothing to stop terrorism.

How about using a laptop with a wireless card to gain access to an unsecured wireless connection, then use a chain of proxies for communication. That's just off the top of my head.

If there's a will, there's a way.

Terrorists 1, India 0
By tjr508 on 9/11/2007 4:25:25 PM , Rating: 5
Personally I believe terrorism has to do about 99% with our foriegn policy (i.e. Isreal), but if terrorists really were concerned with our freedoms like our news stations and our president want us to believe, then this is another big score for the terrorists.

RE: Terrorists 1, India 0
By shiznit on 9/11/2007 7:42:44 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. All they can hope for is our governments to over react and take away our freedoms until we are finally left with the totalitarian society the Islamic extremists wanted all along.

A fatal flaw
By Polynikes on 9/11/2007 6:41:11 PM , Rating: 2
How not to catch a terrorist:

Publicly announce you'll be keylogging all cyber cafe computers.

RE: A fatal flaw
By FITCamaro on 9/11/2007 6:58:08 PM , Rating: 2'll expose the stupidity.

It's kinda like on the news when they report on what the weaknesses are in nuclear power plants. Or the holes in our port security. Or how they managed to get access to data they shouldn't be allowed to. Because its a great idea to just give terrorists ideas.

How to catch a terrorist:

Censor the media from talking about secret programs.

RE: A fatal flaw
By Vile2600 on 9/11/2007 10:45:09 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, why announce that you'll be using keyloggers on computers when you can take a page out of US policy, and announce to the world that the President will be signing an intrusive Act of Congress that violates the privacy of its citizens?

This was in the Simpsons movie!
By timmiser on 9/12/2007 1:00:26 AM , Rating: 2
This reminded me of that scene in the Simpsons movie where the fugitive family talking on a cell phone made some comment about, "What do you think, the government is listening to EVERY phone call at all times?" Of course than they switch to this gigantic room with rows and rows of thousands of "listeners" with all the random phone conversations going on in the background....


By FangedRabbit on 9/12/2007 11:40:48 AM , Rating: 2
That still beats answering tech support calls...

Terrorists 1, India 0
By tjr508 on 9/11/2007 4:25:10 PM , Rating: 3
Personally I beliebe terrorism has to do about 99% with our foriegn policy (i.e. Isreal), but if terrorists really were concerned with our freedoms like our news stations and our president want us to believe, then this is another big score for the terrorists.

Cnet blogger = expert?
By IsDanReally on 9/11/2007 3:44:21 PM , Rating: 2
Since when does using a proxy server or tor get around key loggers? If the experts don't know that a keylogger logs the keys, regardless of how the data gets to its destination, they need to find a new career.

By mostpatriotic on 9/13/2007 3:01:11 AM , Rating: 2
A keylogger is simple it logs key and sends them to where it wants to; right through your proxie, firewall or whatever. A screen capture is smaller than the profiling cookie is pulling from your machine, so ..

Fact is the a$$ people that run our government were jerking off and our WTC got leveled. I don't think they where underfunded they have like 4000 billion per year to spend plus whatever they want to tap from the US$. So now they want to blame everyone and everything under the sun; including your inalienable rights. Ha ha ha, we are so F'ed.

Not once have I seen those truely responsible for our safely take responsibility for the WTC disaster. Something like: Yea .. Hmmm well we were charged with national security and we failed - we really just didn't have the right people working on the right problem. Not to mention a two year old could figure an airplane under hostile control is a threat to national security.

Then they follow up with, if you question anything or raise issues your unpatriotic. And you aren't with us your against us -

The war is for economic reasons and to shift the blame of the attacks; ie. to amplify our aggressors to a level which makes even the Us Government look like a victim, and you can't blame the victim can you?

Just in case your not following ; let's say a single hippie blows up the Hoover dam (Boulder dam). Is it the single hippie's fault or our/the multi-trillion dollar government which commands the largest military in the world fault for not stopping it from happening?

For those linguistically challenged:

fault (n)

Synonyms: responsibility , liability, burden, culpability, accountability
Synonyms: error , mistake, blunder, slip-up, omission, lapse, oversight, slip
Synonyms: defect , flaw, imperfection, blemish, weakness

By radializer on 9/13/2007 4:44:09 AM , Rating: 2
If you look at the source article in the Mid-Day newspaper that this DT article, the CNET blog as well as the Ars Technica article refer to (link below), the main thrust of the police seems to be the use of software remote monitoring. They speak of a locally produced software (by a company in New Bombay or Navi Mumbai called Micro Technologies) called CARMS [Cyber Access Remote Monitoring System]. CARMS would monitor web browsing, file transfers, news, chats, messaging and e-mail, including all encrypted attachments and can also be used to restrict user or group access to only approved external and internal sites. So it's definitely not just keylogging and screen captures ... it has the potential to be much more intrusive!

Additionally, all cyber cafes in the city would need a police license to keep their business going and would need to provide details on the number of computers installed, type of computers and the IP of each machine. This part of it sounds reasonable ... I'm surprised this wasn't already a requirement to setup shop. I am not aware of the policies in most countries for Internet Cafes ... is it standard (or even reasonable) to ask for LAN info during setup?

The Terror Attacks Conspiracy
By LogicallyGenius on 9/11/07, Rating: -1
RE: The Terror Attacks Conspiracy
By mdogs444 on 9/11/07, Rating: 0
RE: The Terror Attacks Conspiracy
By psychmike on 9/11/2007 2:37:13 PM , Rating: 4
They are curbing freedom. They are mandating that private owners of internet cafes install keylogging programs. Please see my post above.

I agree with you however that one's expectations of privacy depends on the context in which the activity is happening. In Canada, it's much easier for the police to stop you while driving and to ask you questions versus walking down the street because there is no 'right' to drive - it's an activity that's explicitly regulated by the government.


By FangedRabbit on 9/12/2007 11:36:01 AM , Rating: 2
This is just another law for a business to adhere to, it makes no difference whether it is truely public like a library, or privately owned in a cafe. Here in Oregon, by law, the grocery stores can't sell liquor and the bars must sell food. It is very common for state and federal law to control how business is done.

RE: The Terror Attacks Conspiracy
By kextyn on 9/11/2007 3:30:25 PM , Rating: 2
There's a difference between monitoring usage and logging every keystroke you make. Any site you log into they will have your password for. That's a HUGE invasion of privacy.

RE: The Terror Attacks Conspiracy
By Christopher1 on 9/12/2007 2:31:48 AM , Rating: 2
I have to agree. What if someone has their credit card number stolen because of this? That would put a damper on this quite quick, because the government would be responsible for paying some of the damages.

By FangedRabbit on 9/12/2007 11:38:59 AM , Rating: 2
No it wouldn't, because you shouldn't be putting your credit card information through a public computer. They would just say "Here's your sign", now don't do it again.

RE: The Terror Attacks Conspiracy
By hashish2020 on 9/11/2007 2:02:37 PM , Rating: 2
How's that tinfoil hat fitting you---a little too snugly?

So the 7/7 attacks, the 9/11 attacks, the hundreds of bombs being set off in India each year are the Illuminati?


Whatever strain of Jimson weed you are smoking...keep smoking it, but refrain from public discourse.

RE: The Terror Attacks Conspiracy
By hashish2020 on 9/11/2007 2:05:16 PM , Rating: 1
Oh and I'm sure the communists who are part of the ruling coalition in India would really love to know they are part of a Bavarian Secret Society.

Or that you read and believed the veracity of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Fucking crackpot.

RE: The Terror Attacks Conspiracy
By luhar49 on 9/11/2007 2:59:12 PM , Rating: 1
I find it rather amusing that you accuse others of posting 'under the influence' when your nickname itself is rather intoxicating :-)


hash·ish (hash'esh', -ish, ha-shesh', hä-)
A purified resin prepared from the flowering tops of the female cannabis plant and smoked or chewed as a narcotic or an intoxicant.

RE: The Terror Attacks Conspiracy
By deeznuts on 9/11/07, Rating: -1
RE: The Terror Attacks Conspiracy
By achintya on 9/12/2007 7:33:58 AM , Rating: 2
erm, i think that keyloggers record each and every keystroke in a computer, be it in a browser or a game.. so using private p2p chat programs doesnt make any difference. Your keystrokes still get recorded. And therefore so does your conversation....

RE: The Terror Attacks Conspiracy
By leexgx on 9/12/2007 7:30:28 PM , Rating: 2
thing is now thay Told every one that Pubic computers are now keyloged , the users thay are targeting will no longer use Public computers any more how daft is that

now thay just find an Open router some whare and work of that or use modem to get internet

"I f***ing cannot play Halo 2 multiplayer. I cannot do it." -- Bungie Technical Lead Chris Butcher

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