Print 64 comment(s) - last by mindless1.. on Apr 28 at 2:23 PM

Maiden flight was in January

The military aviation world is abuzz about stealth technology today. America’s F-35 and the F-22 make use of liberal doses of stealth technology in their designs. The U.S., however, isn’t the only country working hard on stealth aircraft.

The newest stealth fighter to make headlines is the Chinese J-20 fighter. Reuters reports that photos of the J-20 making another flight have surfaced. The photos show the J-20 on the ground and then taking off for only its second flight. 

The photos of the J-20's second flight were posted on the People's Daily website in China with the caption reading, "an alleged J-20 prototype prepares to take off." The Chinese Defense Ministry didn’t comment, but the People's Daily is widely known as a mouthpiece for the Chinese government.

The J-20 had its maiden flight in January 2011. That maiden flight came well ahead of what many analysts expected. The J-20 is reportedly a larger aircraft than the F-22 Raptor leading some to believe it is more focused on air and ground attack roles than air superiority like its U.S. rival. The photos have led some analysts to think that China may be further ahead in the development of the aircraft than initially thought.

There was speculation that the J-20 stealth technology may be have been acquired by the Chinese from an American F-117 that crashed in 1999. That F-117 was lost in Serbia and was the first of the aircraft to get hit by enemy fire. There were reports that Chinese agents were moving all around the part of Serbia where the F-117 crashed buying up parts of the aircraft from local farmers.

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sounds familiar
By ChugokuOtaku on 4/20/2011 11:14:11 AM , Rating: 5
There was speculation that the F-117 stealth technology may be have been acquired by the Americans from a UFO that crashed in 1947. That UFO was lost in Roswell and was the first of its kind to crash in America. There were reports that American agents were moving all around the part of Roswell where the UFO crashed buying up parts of the alien craft from local farmers.

RE: sounds familiar
By Brandon Hill on 4/20/2011 11:16:17 AM , Rating: 2
No Will Smith. No Brent Spiner. No Care! ;)

RE: sounds familiar
By christojojo on 4/20/2011 11:17:37 AM , Rating: 2
You are trying to be funny, right?

RE: sounds familiar
By imaheadcase on 4/20/2011 11:32:46 AM , Rating: 4
The Chinese steal technology? Shenanigans i say..

RE: sounds familiar
By judasmachine on 4/20/2011 12:05:04 PM , Rating: 3
Every country that can, steals technology.

RE: sounds familiar
By dgingeri on 4/20/11, Rating: -1
RE: sounds familiar
By StevoLincolnite on 4/20/2011 2:11:10 PM , Rating: 5
The only place? I guess your "world map" only consists of the USA then? Plenty of countries rank highly (Or even higher) when it comes to freedoms.

RE: sounds familiar
By ClownPuncher on 4/20/2011 2:19:35 PM , Rating: 2
You should know better. Can't you see Russia from your back yard?

RE: sounds familiar
By JediJeb on 4/20/2011 2:35:43 PM , Rating: 2
lol maybe he is actually Chinese, they do "say" they have freedoms there.

RE: sounds familiar
By Azethoth on 4/22/2011 2:47:01 AM , Rating: 2
They actually do have freedoms there.

I was in Shanghai in a library a few years back and totally talked to some student via a notepad (he wrote English better than he spoke it). He wanted to know if I voted for W. He totally felt free to chat this way until he got nervous about some characters staring at him and then took off.

Later on I met some guy who used to be an olympic gold medalist. He was told that he was free to run the Chinese olympic comittee back in the 60's but didn't feel like it so they tortured him for many years b4 releasing him. Seemed like a nice guy but kinda reminded me of some WWII vets I met as a kid with shell shock: a bit broken.

RE: sounds familiar
By Netjak on 4/21/2011 7:07:56 AM , Rating: 2
O yeah, like von Braun, early radar and so on...

RE: sounds familiar
By NullSubroutine on 4/20/2011 11:50:54 AM , Rating: 2
What is interesting with these recent FBI releases from the "Vault" seem to indicate that there may be a causal link between a special type of radar may have caused the UFO crash in Roswell, rather than the believed "lightning" as many say.

RE: sounds familiar
By kattanna on 4/20/2011 1:18:07 PM , Rating: 2
i dont believe they had agents buying up the pieces, why would they? we all know they recovered a fully intact craft further afield that wasnt mentioned from the "weather balloon" one we did hear about


RE: sounds familiar
By StevoLincolnite on 4/20/2011 2:05:37 PM , Rating: 2
It was all probably found on Ebay to begin with!

RE: sounds familiar
By Iketh on 4/21/2011 1:48:40 AM , Rating: 1
Being that stealth is basically a ton of mathematical counter-measures to radar, I really don't think we needed to learn it from aliens...

furthermore, I seriously doubt aliens need stealth for radar

RE: sounds familiar
By BernardP on 4/21/2011 11:34:48 AM , Rating: 3
Surprisingly, as explained in the book Skunk Works

The faceted technology used on the F-117 was from a publicly available paper from a Russian researcher.

By msheredy on 4/20/2011 11:42:44 AM , Rating: 5
The J-20 is reportedly a larger aircraft than the F-22 Raptor leading some to believe it is more focused on air and ground attack roles than air superiority like its U.S. rival.

That's just an illusion. Chinese people are tiny so they make the plane look big.

RE: Nawwww
By DM0407 on 4/20/2011 11:47:02 AM , Rating: 2
Well played, sir.

RE: Nawwww
By Uncle on 4/20/2011 1:11:03 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, those are actually Chinese Midgets. :)

RE: Nawwww
By kattanna on 4/20/2011 1:24:53 PM , Rating: 3
yeah.. that one under the plane working on the rear wheel.. while he does that during the day here he is by night



RE: Nawwww
By Azethoth on 4/22/2011 2:49:46 AM , Rating: 2
So you are claiming that picture is of a pocket plane?

RE: Nawwww
By Yongsta on 4/26/2011 1:47:00 PM , Rating: 2
Actually they're the cousins of Yao Ming

Bought and paid for by US consumers...
By Pneumothorax on 4/20/2011 11:49:08 AM , Rating: 2
Yay! I think the iPad I just bought contributed to the Chinese Stealth Fighter Charity!

RE: Bought and paid for by US consumers...
By JediJeb on 4/20/2011 3:13:37 PM , Rating: 4
And most of the rest of the stuff we buy now days :(

I went to Wal Mart buy a new fishing rod the other day, hadn't bought one in years and there are absolutely none there made anywhere but China. I did find some lures still made in the USA and the Plano tackle boxes but that is about it. I even did a search online and could find only one small company making fishing reels in the USA, all the other "American" companies are importing their products from China.

No wonder the Chinese can push something like this through the entire R&D and production phases so quickly, they have virtually unlimited funds donated by us to do it with.

RE: Bought and paid for by US consumers...
By mindless1 on 4/20/2011 8:47:48 PM , Rating: 2
Quickly? What makes you think they haven't been working on jet fighter tech for dozens of years?

I don't understand why people are discussing whether they got some stealth tech from a downed US plane. Where do our jet fighter engineers come from? Universities world wide.

Do these universities ban Chinese students? If not, are we assuming the chinese students deliberately try not to learn the sciences applicable to stealth tech, or are we assuming 100% of them never go back to China?

We're near the end of the era where there is any tech that one country holds for years that the others do not if they have sufficient resources which the Chinese do.

One might argue they have a smaller budget for such things, but the dirt cheap Chinese products we buy every other day are proof enough they can stretch a budget and do things very inexpensively.

RE: Bought and paid for by US consumers...
By Azethoth on 4/22/2011 3:02:57 AM , Rating: 2
Nah the quickness is because they design, engineer and assemble it all in one location from parts built locally. It turns out that it is fast and cheap to do things that way. You know, like what the Skunk Works did in WWII.

Now in America though you need to build in political hardening from top to bottom so you end up with bits and pieces from enough states to form a presidential veto proof electoral supermajority. Unfortunately this makes things 35x as expensive and very slow to roll out.

By mindless1 on 4/28/2011 2:23:47 PM , Rating: 2
That would account for a difference of weeks, months at most, not years. The differences were the US both saw a need and invested in the research earlier, as the US thinks it is an international police force for both better and worse.

China doesn't feel this burden nor fear attack from surrounding countries.

Not really that surprising.
By icemansims on 4/20/2011 12:11:12 PM , Rating: 2
This new arms race with stealth really isn't all THAT surprising. I mean, really. It's all physics of electromagnetic radiation and the geometry of refraction and reflection. Radar absorbent materials aren't THAT new, there are plenty of published papers out there from around the globe on those, couple that with the basic theory of radar (radio wave is emitted, bounces, or reflects, off the target and is picked up by a receiver, with time being directly proportional to distance and blue/red shift being proportional to rate of approach/retreat), and very public pictures of the exterior geometry of the F-35 and the F-22, all I can say is....duh. OF COURSE they can come up with something similar.

RE: Not really that surprising.
By CarbonJoe on 4/20/2011 4:23:01 PM , Rating: 2
I'm still waiting for the "revelation" that there was some corporate espionage or a security breach on the servers at a defense contractor that gave the Chinese detailed drawings of the F-22/F35.

RE: Not really that surprising.
By Azethoth on 4/22/2011 3:06:34 AM , Rating: 2
Could happen, but the magic is in the absorbent coatings, which they got from the crashed plane. The topology is just a straight forward engineering + computer simulation exercise.

RE: Not really that surprising.
By oirin on 4/21/2011 6:22:12 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly! Some on this post are reading too much into a conspiracy with overt speculation and cynicism.

Headline coming soon...
By JimboK29 on 4/20/2011 1:02:01 PM , Rating: 2
Chinese J-20 Stealth Fighter Makes Third Flight

RE: Headline coming soon...
By Azethoth on 4/22/2011 3:07:41 AM , Rating: 2
Nostradamus, is that you? I _KNEW_ you were psychic.

US is the 'best of the best of the best'
By croc on 4/21/2011 12:00:07 AM , Rating: 2
Hmmm... How can 'we' count the ways?

1. US PWNS its citizens, via 'the war on terrorism.
1.a 'Legal' warrant-less wiretapping.
1.b Warrant-less searches at borders, both in and out, of any device that the US deems to be of whatever intelligence value.
1.c Illegal violation of persons rights in re: privacy, irrespective of age, sex, nationality, ethnic origin, etc.

2. US has the same old attitude, 'carry a big stick'. Ignoring the prelude to that statement, (made by Theodore Roosevelt) of 'speak softly'... It should be noted that he probably learned of this philosophical statement from several visits to africa, but whatever... Americans are also prone to plagairism...
2.a US now finds itself in a financial bind, one of its own making, re: trying to (and succeeding so far) out-spend most all other nations combined.
2.b US seems to now employ an 'endless war' concept, whereby in order to justify its military-industrial complex it MUST make and maintain wars on anything and everything that is NOT 'american'.
2.b.a the 'war on terror'.
2.b.b the 'war on drugs'.
2.b.c (speculative) the 'war on poverty', redefined from the JFK - LBJ years to now mean “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” Warren Buffet.

Bah. I am tired of this, it is now boring to myself and much of the rest of the world. Some peace and quiet would be welcome, but (just as one cannot expect it from coddled babies) I don't expect to to hear it soon.

By Azethoth on 4/22/2011 2:56:04 AM , Rating: 2
'speak softly but carry a big stick'

Dear Sir / Madam. We ARE speaking softly. It is just that we and our country are so big that it seems extremely loud to you.

PS: Please forward your GPS coords so we can deliver an exciting surprise package to your location!

By name99 on 4/20/2011 9:23:15 PM , Rating: 3
"That F-117 was lost in Serbia"

You mean the war where the US bombed the Chinese embassy, in a campaign organized and directed by the CIA?
What goes around comes around...

By Performance Fanboi on 4/20/2011 1:29:14 PM , Rating: 2
I wonder what movie clips they are gonna post to the news for the next test - I suggest the give the Iron Eagle series a look.

It was not a mistake
By mosu on 4/21/2011 3:25:02 AM , Rating: 2
It was not a mistake when US guided bomb hit the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade.It's a little late, but revealing.

By Pessimism on 4/21/2011 10:37:32 AM , Rating: 2
It is a plywood mockup, all about the lulz for the chinese higher-ups.

death to shameless americans, long live China.
By tech02148 on 4/20/11, Rating: 0
By mindless1 on 4/20/2011 8:49:57 PM , Rating: 1
Jealous troll is jealous.

That's ok, we permit you to be on the internet even if your own government doesn't. xoxoxoxo

That thing in the picture...
By Landiepete on 4/21/2011 1:14:01 AM , Rating: 1
You should have someone with intimate knowledge on aircraft design and radar systems look at that.
Bar special absorbent coatings, it looks like it has the radar signature of something close to an F15.
On top of that it seems WAY to big to be a capable air superiority fighter. It looks to me like an old MIG 31 with new bodywork.

But hey, what do I know.

I call BS
By Reclaimer77 on 4/20/11, Rating: -1
RE: I call BS
By GaryW on 4/20/2011 12:52:31 PM , Rating: 4
Major F'ed Up works for the U.S. Government...

RE: I call BS
By Reclaimer77 on 4/20/2011 12:57:28 PM , Rating: 2
Still, we don't leave crashed F-117's for farmers to pick at and salvage. No way.

RE: I call BS
By Solandri on 4/20/2011 2:01:17 PM , Rating: 4
We left this one. I remember exactly what you say being debated at the time - why didn't we just bomb the plane on the ground like we normally do?

The pilot ejected due to the plane being wildly out of control after being hit. The brass ass-u-me-d that the plane was unstable in flight and crashed into the ground at high velocity, so delayed getting a recon flight to look at the crash site (all F117 missions are at night). Instead, it glided to a relatively soft landing and survived mostly intact. By the time they saw the "crash" site and realized they needed to bomb it, there were locals crawling all over it scavenging for parts. The Pentagon then decided the risk to human life wasn't worth bombing it.

That said, I agree with you that if the Chinese are using stealth technology, it mostly isn't from the F117. The F117 had some radar-absorptive design and coatings, but most of its reduced radar cross section was due to the faceted design of its surfaces. Basically, Lockheed knew the radar absorption wasn't enough to make it disappear off radars, so concentrated on bouncing radar signals away from the originating radar to achieve stealth. This is in contrast to the B2 and F22 whose low radar cross section is almost entirely due to absorption / non-reflectance (the rest being curved surfaces).

RE: I call BS
By amagriva on 4/20/11, Rating: -1
RE: I call BS
By Master Kenobi on 4/20/11, Rating: 0
RE: I call BS
By e36Jeff on 4/20/2011 7:46:31 PM , Rating: 3
The P-51 had very little presence in the Pacific Theater. it was the P-38 Lightning, F6F Hellcat, and the F4U Corsair that turned the tide in the air war against the Zero. The P-38 could out run, out climb, and out range the zero, the F6F could out run and take a huge beating, and the F4U exceeded the Zero in all respects except slow speed turns, it actually held an 11:1 kill ratio.The P-51's only showed up at the end of the Pacific war to escort bombers into Japan for the handful of bombing raids we did before the war ended.

RE: I call BS
By Solandri on 4/20/2011 8:20:26 PM , Rating: 2
I'll add that the U.S. attacks on Japan in WWII were a direct response to an attack by Japan on the U.S. itself. The goal was to beat the other side into a bloody pulp until it surrendered.

In Kosovo, NATO got involved not because of an attack on NATO, but in response to genocide being carried out against civilians. The goal there was to reduce civilian deaths. It would have been tremendously hypocritical to enter the conflict under the auspices of humanitarianism, then callously disregard civilian lives by bombing the plane in an effort to protect technology.

RE: I call BS
By ThisSpaceForRent on 4/21/2011 12:20:52 AM , Rating: 2
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

RE: I call BS
By lwatcdr on 4/25/2011 2:32:53 PM , Rating: 2
Please invest in some history books.
1. There where no P51s at Midway.
2. The F4F actually did well in combat with the Zero and was the fighter in use at Midway.
3. The F6F, F4U, P38, and P47 could all out fly the Zero.
4. Even the P40 did okay in combat the the Zero.

The F4F was slower, couldn't out turn or out climb the Zero but it had better armement, could out dive it and could out maneuver it at high speeds. The Zero had very bad handing above 300 MPH so the US P40s used that to their advantage. Add in that the US planes could take a lot of punishment the US used better tactics to over come the Zeros strengths. The F4F managed to have something like a 7:1 kill ratio.
Those that do not learn history on condemned to make up. Oh and the Wildcat was so useful that it was kept in production until 1945.

RE: I call BS
By Divide Overflow on 4/26/2011 2:21:34 PM , Rating: 2
Please learn reading comprehension. He never claimed there were P-51s at Midway.

RE: I call BS
By Master Kenobi on 4/20/2011 6:52:57 PM , Rating: 2
The F-22 incorporates the faceted surfaces as well, just they are done as part of the skin rather than across the aircraft design itself.

RE: I call BS
By Reclaimer77 on 4/20/2011 7:03:12 PM , Rating: 1
The Pentagon then decided the risk to human life wasn't worth bombing it.

Bad call imo.

RE: I call BS
By Skywalker123 on 4/23/2011 9:40:12 AM , Rating: 2
A bad call was when your mother decided not to have the abortion.

RE: I call BS
By carniver on 4/20/2011 1:00:24 PM , Rating: 2
2.) If 1 cannot happen, then a strike order is given to have said crashed top secret plane bombed into little tiny bits.

The plane got shot down and crashed in a foreign country you're not in war with, and then you bomb that country becasue you wanted to destroy the remains of that plane, you think that isn't even more f'ed up?

RE: I call BS
By Reclaimer77 on 4/20/11, Rating: -1
RE: I call BS
By gixser on 4/20/2011 6:51:33 PM , Rating: 2
Ok...remember this post folks and please refer to it it future "discussions" with this jokester.

RE: I call BS
By Skywalker123 on 4/23/2011 9:42:06 AM , Rating: 2
Complete idiot.

RE: I call BS
By Ammohunt on 4/20/2011 2:10:54 PM , Rating: 2
wrong! and F-117 crashed in the former yugoslavia and they didn't do a thing it was speculated that that is where china got the tech for this plane from that very crash.
Not to mention F-117 tech is nearly 30 years old they have way better stuff currently.

RE: I call BS
By Reclaimer77 on 4/20/11, Rating: 0
RE: I call BS
By oirin on 4/21/2011 6:16:49 AM , Rating: 2
Stealth tech is not overly sophisticated and was actually copied by the US from Soviet models. If you're not learning from your foe or others these days, you're a fool. Mattel-designed lead toys is another story.

RE: I call BS
By JediJeb on 4/20/2011 2:34:12 PM , Rating: 2
Well I do remember seeing news footage from that crash that showed locals carrying around pieces of the tail of that F117 when it crashed. The Chinese may not have been able to recover large intact systems but from those pieces they could get a head start on reverse engineering the coatings and construction materials.

"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine." -- Bill Gates

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