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Science China and Russia Agree to Study Mars Together
Michael Hoffman (Blog) - March 30, 2007 4:31 PM

35 comment(s) - last by crystal clear.. on Apr 3 at 2:33 AM

The announced deal between the two nations could be the first of several

China and Russia have officially agreed to a deal in which the two nations will launch a joint space mission to study the atmosphere of Mars and Phobos in 2009. A Russian rocket will take both the Russian-made Phobos-Grunt space explorer and Chinese-made scientific equipment into orbit. Chinese President Hu Jintao spent time in Moscow discussing a number of issues with President Vladimir Putin, including space exploration. This could be the first of other planned joint missions between the Chinese National Space Administration and Russian Federal Space Agency.

While the Chinese equipment will study the Martian atmosphere, the Russian explorer will land on Phobos and take soil samples. Both nations hope that the mission will yield results to help explain the origins of both the Solar System and Earth. A Chinese scientist unveiled the plan in August 2006, but it is now official.

China hopes the agreement with Russia will allow the growing Chinese space program to acquire technical space experience for future missions. Russia has far more experience in space exploration compared to the expanding Chinese space program. Both nations are trying to put pressure on the U.S. space program at a time in which NASA is facing budget issues.

China became only the third nation in the world to be able to launch a manned mission -- and the nation launched a second manned mission last year. Washington and Beijing also were involved in a standoff due to the Chinese testing an anti-satellite missile that destroyed an old satellite.

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The die is cast

By Ringold on 3/30/07, Rating: 0

RE: The die is cast

By alifbaa on 3/30/2007 8:22:24 PM , Rating: 2

In college I helped a history professor research a parallel mercury program where the Air Force would operate its own mercury capsules for the purpose of one day building a system able to operate in a low earth orbit and either conduct reconnaissance missions or even conduct a nuclear attack against the USSR from a position that would afford them less than 5 minutes' notice. Essentially, it was a back door effort to develop a nuclear capable platform to enable the US to have a first strike capability that would eliminate the possibility of a retaliatory strike. My assumption, although it's still classified, was that such strikes would decapitate the USSR and destroy their key communications nodes. That would either end the conflict then and there or it would allow follow on bombers and ICBM strikes to take the rest of the country apart piece by piece if necessary. At the same time as all this was going on, we were publicly proclaiming our commitment to never use nukes first.

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RE: The die is cast

By masher2

(blog) on 3/30/2007 9:01:36 PM , Rating: 2

> "At the same time as all this was going on, we were publicly proclaiming our commitment to never use nukes first..."

And we didn't, did we? There's a vast difference between contingency planning and wargaming scenarios versys actually taking action. Its prudent and proper to do the former, especially when failing to do so in a "MAD" scenario could mean the death of tens of millions of your own citizens.

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RE: The die is cast

By lompocus on 3/31/07, Rating: 0

RE: The die is cast

By Ringold on 3/31/2007 1:03:50 PM , Rating: 3

The perception was that we were ahead of the Soviet Union, but their Buran was pretty impressive, if much less sophisticated, yes? On paper it was superior in general to our Shuttle. Fast forward some decades, and now they've not just got the nationalist drive but the tax revenue born of booming capitalism. Meanwhile, we're starving our program and have moved in to the phase of our national history full of apathy. It doesn't matter in the least who's ahead today (especially considering we will be entirely without access to space for our astronauts for the better part of the entire upcoming decade).

Oh, and that 2017 date is a long, long way away. It's already been pushed back once; considering it's a government project, don't expect English to be spoken on the Moon until 2020 I figure (unless our budget policies change). And additionally, is has nothing to do with 'teh bushy'; his Vision for Space Exploration called for the funding that the recent Democratic congress under Pelosi and Reed failed to even partly deliver on, so nice shot at being partisan but doesn't quite work here. Bipartisan failure in Congress, but Bush has actually probably been a positive force for NASA.

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Phobos-Grunt Space Explorer??

By Narutoyasha76 on 3/30/2007 4:42:02 PM , Rating: 3

It's great that Russia and China are going to explore Mars atmosphere. It's the name of the explorer that has me thinking if this is an early April Fool Day joke. Somehow I am reminded of ID's game DOOM 3.

Will there be an expansion pack with that?

RE: Phobos-Grunt Space Explorer??

By masher2

(blog) on 3/30/2007 4:49:49 PM , Rating: 1

> "It's the name of the explorer that has me thinking if this is an early April Fool Day joke..."

'Grunt' is a transliteration of the Russian word for soil.

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RE: Phobos-Grunt Space Explorer??

By crystal clear on 3/31/2007 1:42:14 AM , Rating: 1

'Grunt' is a transliteration of the Russian word for soil"

I would change it to "POLLUTED SOIL"

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By Scabies on 4/1/2007 3:54:15 PM , Rating: 2

heh heh... red planet...

RE: <no subject>

By nekobawt on 4/2/2007 11:06:39 AM , Rating: 2

Dang, you beat me to it!

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dating

By Seemonkeyscanfly on 3/30/07, Rating: -1

RE: dating

By AstroCreep on 3/30/2007 5:27:51 PM , Rating: 1

More to the point, which country is the woman?

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RE: dating

By mrkun on 3/30/2007 6:11:14 PM , Rating: 1

I'd have to say China since they're in the process of losing their space virginity.

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RE: dating

By Seemonkeyscanfly on 3/30/07, Rating: 0

RE: dating

By animedude on 3/30/2007 6:41:12 PM , Rating: 2

But China has the mooooney. Doesn't that make them the man.

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RE: dating

By alifbaa on 3/30/2007 8:12:43 PM , Rating: 2

Maybe, but Russia's driving the car. Maybe their in more of a "domestic partnership" type situation.

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RE: dating

By Jaylllo on 3/31/2007 1:13:12 AM , Rating: 1

I was going to debunk your post a bit, but it doesn't make any sense. So...

I would suggest you go back to grade school and at least learn semi-proper spelling and grammar.

But I think you right. You is stupid.

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STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By crystal clear on 3/31/07, Rating: -1

RE: STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By Nyu on 3/31/2007 4:29:18 AM , Rating: 1

You... USA is the most polluting country in the world atm, and their cars are not even up to chinese standards for pollution, so they can't be sold there.

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RE: STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By crystal clear on 3/31/07, Rating: -1

RE: STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By Nyu on 3/31/2007 5:48:27 AM , Rating: 3

Not really, I'm western european and live in a nicely unpoluted island.

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RE: STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By crystal clear on 3/31/07, Rating: -1

RE: STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By fayer on 3/31/2007 4:57:36 AM , Rating: 1

exactly, US is the most polluting country - with only one fourth the population of china. Yet the military expenditure of US is almost half of the WHOLE world.

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RE: STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By crystal clear on 3/31/07, Rating: -1

RE: STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By lompocus on 3/31/07, Rating: -1

By lompocus on 3/31/2007 5:24:12 AM , Rating: -1

Well damn crystal clear, you certaily like to state obvious facts :/.

Really though, it's people like you that love 'teh capzlokz' and talk like you do w/ out giving anything to support it that make the U.S. people look stupid. I truly feel as if 1/4 of our pop really is retarded sometimes...

Anyways... despite all that, what he said is in fact right. Both countries are in the shittiest position any country could be in, economy-wise. Don't start talking about china. what economy is one based on plastic straws and the caps of my soda cans? Same with Russia. The cold war made them broke. Them working together never means something will be done well, just that it will be done at the expenditure of many, many lives. Both are nearly dictatorships in the way they're run!

And in response to the comment that the U.S. invests the most in its military....so what? We can, so we will. WE protect YOUR rights. WE are the only place of refuge. Like it or not, the U.K., S. Afrika, Israel, and the U.S. really are the only economically and politically sound countries in the world (alright, maybe S. Afrika could be excluded from that).

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RE: STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By person462 on 3/31/2007 5:46:32 AM , Rating: 2

Lets get a few things straight. For starters the United states is actually a net producer of oxygen. So even if we do emit tons of CO2 our forests actually take care of all of it, and then some. In addition both the Chinese and Russian economies are booming, with Russia's new switch to capitalism, there economy is taking off, even though it still has a long way to go. And China currently owns most of our, huge, debt so I can't see how any of you can claim that the United states is the one of the only economically sound countries.

The only bummer is that the US didn't get in on this deal. We would benefit by working with other space programs, seeing as how we need to be cutting as much expenditures as we can.

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RE: STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By ralith on 4/2/2007 10:20:49 AM , Rating: 2

I my experience multi-country programs always turn into boondoggles. It seems like every country that is added creates yet another level of bureaucratic crap that has to be waded through. I have personal experience with a couple and have listened to colleagues bemoan others. For instance a large western program wanted to change a message that would only affect one country, but the approval of the message change required all participating countries’ approvals. That country's representative was told it was going to take 5 years to get this approval through the proper channels. So the country ended up just creating a secondary radio network as a stop gap for supporting the message until the message got through the "proper channels".

Then there is the ISS. THAT was a major boondoggle. I’m not sure if the US could have made it quite so large by itself, but IMHO we would’ve had it done long ago had we gone it alone.

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RE: STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By crystal clear on 3/31/2007 6:09:46 AM , Rating: 2

Hey "lompocus"-Would like to quote you a conversation between me & an Israeli doctor (on a flight TLV-London)

It goes like-

*Israel is the largest recipient of Russian immigrants(former Soviet Union).A few millions or so approx.

*Majority of those immigrants suffer from some form of
illness that after exstensive research leads you to -RADIATION !
They all are NOT from Chernobyl(I hope I spelt correctly)
they come from all parts of the Soviet Union !

*He quoted a few examples-(one of them)

A guard on his compulsory Army service in the Soviet Union serving in base that stored-
Shells,Bombs,Bullets(uranium tipped) etc.
Many at this base were not told what was stored in these warehouses-except a FEW.
This guard later after a few years migrated to Israel &
frequently fell sick,which sent doctors searching "WHY"
After intensive test & questioning they came up with the conclusion that RADIATION LEAKS was the cause of his ILLNESS.

This is just an example how radiation has played HAVOC
with millions of lives residing in villages/towns/cities
around major Soviet bases,Test facilities,Research centres,
Top secret sites etc.
You heard nothing nor will you hear anything on this.
These are the silient Sufferers in their millions !

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RE: STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By crystal clear on 3/31/2007 7:55:16 AM , Rating: 2

"Really though, it's people like you that love 'teh capzlokz' and talk like you do w/ out giving anything to support it"

I certainly can support it-If this site had the capabilities
of loading "VEDEO"/"PHOTOS" etc -I would have loaded them on.

Ask any regular "Tripper" to China, he will tell you some-
"CHINA STORIES"

" Well damn crystal clear" He puts it very "CRYSTAL CLEAR"

It Upsets very a many & much.(MOD ME DOWN-just joking)

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RE: STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By lompocus on 4/2/2007 1:15:39 AM , Rating: 1

ah, alrighty crystal, sorry then. It's just, it seems a tiny bit more difficult to take someone's opinions seriously when half of their post is capped. :)

As for whoever talked about his talk w/ an Israeli doctor...where in the world did I say anything that talked about radiation or whatnot? Even so,you make yourself seem as if you're truly opposed to what I'm saying, yet what you say supports my 'opinion' (for the Europeans here, fact for the U.K. and Americans here since only we will hear it) as it shows that Russia isn't exactly the best place to live. Now, if for some reason it sounded as if I was from Russia (since that's the only reason I can think of for you typing that), then I'm from the U.S.

For whoever responded 1st after my post, maybe they have booming economies, yet they're still in the pits as far as living conditions are concerned. China has 1.5 billion people. India has 1.2 bil +/- 200mil. Need I compare living conditions? Economically, if we flat out stop all trade with China, they'll go broke in a month or two. They won't recover. We'll find others to make our straws and beanies. Russia is'nt as bad as before, yet their government bars on the line between Democracy and Dictatorship. Finally, as far as the military is concerned, like it or not it will always come down to the military. The U.S. can, w/out nukes, take over the world if needed. Our military doesn't release all its info. My father was in the army special forces, and I'm quite sure he has a significant amount of knowledge about the innerworkings our technological advances, esp. from what he will never tell me or anyone else. An excellent example of that is the Blackbird stealth aircraft. For something that was FAR beyond its time in the 70s (was it the 60s? My memories a bit fuzzy, i wasn't born in that time anyways), it still got retired. Yea, the plane was moving faster than the bullets it could fire, yet wouldn't you think that the air force would keep it around for SOMETHING, like reconnaissance?

I understand the way in which I phrase my posts may be insulting to many of you, yet it is what can be gathered by the facts, once you put CNN and MSN and any of ANY countries' media behind you.

I have no doubt this'll still recieve a high negative score despite me telling you all this. :/

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RE: STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By crazydrummer4562 on 3/31/2007 3:20:45 PM , Rating: 2

No, China creates more pollution. Your rhetoric sucks. FYI: factories make a lot more pollution than cars do.

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RE: STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By lompocus on 4/2/2007 1:18:10 AM , Rating: 1

Well...believe it or not we make a ton more pollution than many other countries combined (the U.S.). It's just the way in which you maintain it. Plus, there's a huge energy efficiency wave going around here, so no doubt it'll fall faster than any body's.

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RE: STUDY EARTH TOGETHER-INSTEAD !

By masher2

(blog) on 4/2/2007 9:34:06 AM , Rating: 2

No. You've confused CO2 with pollution. Nations like China and Russia generate far more pollution than does the US...and their air and water reflect it.

The last time I was in Russia, for instance, a colleague of mine was hired to test the water source for a proposed soft drink bottling plant. He told the investors that, not only was it unsuitable for this purpose, but unsafe to drink, dangerous to even brush your teeth in it. High levels of several different heavy metals, pesticide residue, organic waste, all several hundred times above levels deemed safe in Western nations. This was the public drinking water for a city of 1+ million people.

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