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Chinese citizens laid flowers on the Google logo at the company's headquarters in support of the company's decision to stand up to the Chinese government's censorship  (Source: Vincent Thian/Associated Press)

In response to Google's decision to uncensor its search, the Chinese government is accusing Google of espionage and attempting to kick Google's Android OS out of China's phone market.  (Source: Leakdroid.com)
Google President Brin urges President Obama respond to Chinese action and statements

According to the Chinese government, the U.S. is committing a campaign of cyberwarfare against it (its claims echo those voiced by top U.S. armed forces officials, who conversely claim China is carrying out a cyberwarfare effort against the U.S.).  

People’s Daily, the main newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party, on Wednesday unleashed serious accusations against Google. In a front-page piece it claims that Google, the second largest search engine in China, and one of the largest companies in the U.S., is colluding with U.S. espionage efforts.

Writes the paper:

For Chinese people, Google is not god, and even if it puts on a full-on show about politics and values, it is still not god.  In fact, Google is not a virgin when it comes to values. Its cooperation and collusion with the U.S. intelligence and security agencies is well-known...All this makes one wonder. Thinking about the United States’ big efforts in recent years to engage in Internet war, perhaps this could be an exploratory pre-dawn battle.

The editorial follows Google's Monday decision to stand up to the Chinese government.  Fed up with cybercrime in China and the country's policy of censoring internet access to a variety of materials, Google defied Chinese regulators by uncensoring its search results in China.  It redirected Chinese visitors from google.cn to its uncensored Hong Kong search site.  The Hong Kong site uses the same simplified Chinese characters that the mainland uses and thus is readable to those in mainland China.

As of Tuesday the site was still not blocked, but most observers believe that the Chinese government will move to block google.cn or google.com.hk.  Some are astounded at the move by Google.  Former U.S. ambassador to China J. Stapleton Roy, director of the Kissinger Institute on China and the United States at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, states, "I don’t understand their calculation.  I do not see how Google could have concluded that they could have faced down the Chinese on a domestic censorship issue."

Google could pay deeply for the move.  China is home to over 155 million smart phone users and that number is growing rapidly.  Contrary to its previous statements, the Chinese government is now moving to ban Google's Android handsets from China.  It is reportedly pressuring telecoms like China Unicom to delay or scrap smart phone offerings that use Google's Android OS.  This could prove a boon to Research in Motion and Apple, the latter of which has seen poor sales of its iPhone in China.

The Chinese government is also pushing telecoms to terminate their search deals with Google, which could boost Microsoft.  Google is expected to lose its 31.3 percent search stake in China's internet market of over 350 million users -- more users than the entire population of the U.S.

The accusations of espionage could also result in charges against Google's 600 China employees.  Google is fearful of this and was careful to say that none of its Chinese employees were involved in the decision to uncensor the search.  Chinese courts might not accept that claim, though.

Google co-founder and president Sergey Brin knows a little about what its like to grow up in an oppressive communist regime.  Brin was born in 1973 in Soviet Russia, but later attended college at Stanford University -- where he met fellow Google co-founder Larry Page.

Brin says that the Obama administration should take action against China rather than avoid the issue.  He stated in an interview with the UK newspaper 
Guardian, "I certainly hope they make it a high priority.  Human rights issues deserve equal time to the trade issues that are high priority now … I hope this gets taken seriously.  Since services and information are our most successful exports, if regulations in China effectively prevent us from being competitive, then they are a trade barrier.

And Brin had some stinging criticism of U.S. rival Microsoft, who has vowed to continue censoring its Chinese search, in cooperation with the government of China.  Says Brin, "I'm very disappointed for them in particular. As I understand, they have effectively no market share – so they essentially spoke against freedom of speech and human rights simply in order to contradict Google."

In China many people are celebrating Google's decision to stand up against censorship.  The logo in front of Google's headquarters was covered in flowers left by supporters.    That support, though, may only serve to further anger Chinese regulators.



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Good on you, Google
By piroroadkill on 3/24/2010 9:31:42 AM , Rating: 5
It's the only way to play their game, don't play it at all




RE: Good on you, Google
By Whedonic on 3/24/2010 10:15:14 AM , Rating: 5
Say what you will, but I didn't think Google would have the guts to uncensor their Chinese search engine. That took serious balls, way to go Google!


RE: Good on you, Google
By MrBlastman on 3/24/10, Rating: 0
RE: Good on you, Google
By Schrag4 on 3/24/2010 12:06:40 PM , Rating: 5
You're right, they can't "hurt" Google, but they could turn those 600 China employees into organ donors, and I don't think anyone outside of the Chinese goverment wants that to happen.

quote:
The accusations of espionage could also result in charges against Google's 600 China employees.


RE: Good on you, Google
By MrBlastman on 3/24/2010 1:09:11 PM , Rating: 3
Well that is a good point... what else do you think they put in our pet food?


RE: Good on you, Google
By SlyNine on 3/24/2010 12:33:33 PM , Rating: 5
Seriously, obviously the threat was loss in business over there. You tell me how this could actually help Google. Other then improve their image, which it should because this was a bold Fing move.


RE: Good on you, Google
By Divide Overflow on 3/24/2010 10:41:02 PM , Rating: 2
You answered your own question quite nicely.


RE: Good on you, Google
By Nik00117 on 3/28/2010 1:02:02 PM , Rating: 1
He did google is smart doing this, this is how it went down

China: Censor your search
Google: No
China: Do it or we kick you out!
Google: Fuck you, we already left.


RE: Good on you, Google
By chick0n on 3/24/10, Rating: -1
RE: Good on you, Google
By ekv on 3/24/2010 2:22:23 PM , Rating: 5
Good point.

Let me put this ever-so-delicately, this kind of behaviour from China is what the American people need to realize is going to get worse. It didn't used to be this way, Americans relying on the Chinese to buy our essentially useless bonds. Sad.

It doesn't need to be this way, but it'd require Washington DC to exercise fiscal sanity. Which is admittedly asking-for-the-moon (as it were). We Americans are all guilty. Repub's, Dem's and Indep's. We need to recognize the problem and restore fiscal sanity. Just like the 12 steps of AA [and replace "alcohol" with "deficit spending"].


RE: Good on you, Google
By TSS on 3/24/2010 9:34:57 PM , Rating: 2
AA programs? Right, that'll end well.

"Dad! What the hell are you doing?!"
"Hello, Stan."
"Dad, it's the middle of the day! I thought you weren't going to spend as much anymore!"
"No, Stan, you don't understand. I have a disease. Daddy's very sick."
"What?? Did you go to your AA meeting?!"
"Yes, they're the ones that told me. I thought I could just quit spending on my own, but... it's an illness, son. I have to admit that I'm powerless to this terrible disease."
"Dad, you've had enough! Just stop now! "
"I can't! I'm sick! "
"Aw Goddamnit!"
"Stan I... need your help. "
"Dad, what are you doing in Grandpa's extra wheelchair?!"
"Gotta try to take it easy from now on, son. Get Daddy another credit card, will ya?"
"No! You don't need another credit card!"
"I know that! But this disease is just eating me up! I hate my illness!"
"Dad, you just need to not spend so much. It's very simple."
"I wish it was that simple, son. But if I don't give myself up to a higher power, this disease is going to kill me dead. I'm afraid the only thing that will cure me... is a miracle."


RE: Good on you, Google
By ekv on 3/25/2010 2:23:03 AM , Rating: 2
I'm glad Google took a stand here. [It looks like some other companies may follow.] Investors are upset at near-term prospects, but in the long run Google has shown few chinks in their armor.

It'd be nice if we had statesmen in Washington DC who had the vision and moral courage to exercise their fiduciary responsibility to us, the citizens. [Please, no stupid accounting tricks]. But, like I said, that "is admittedly asking-for-the-moon".

Looks like you have some history with AA. Perhaps you're angry, at what, God? Whatever your beef with AA is -- and I can't make sense of it -- AA does appear to be beneficial. I have a couple friends that continue to attend. 20+ years for one of 'em.


RE: Good on you, Google
By zmatt on 3/25/2010 11:43:29 AM , Rating: 2
He is making a South Park reference.


RE: Good on you, Google
By chick0n on 3/26/2010 3:03:07 AM , Rating: 3
Google didn't stand jack $hit.

Google is just acting like what most American does best --- trash talk + blame the others while taking advantage of the said party.

If they're so full of themselves, why don't they gtfo of China completely ? Oh yeah, Cuz they're making billions every year out of China. Communist is evil right? why are you doing business there then ?

Go kiss my a$$ Google.


RE: Good on you, Google
By ekv on 3/26/2010 4:26:52 AM , Rating: 1
Oh please. What are you crying about? Your post readers like a mindless danish rant.

You only say Google didn't stand because you don't stand for anything.


RE: Good on you, Google
By superkdogg on 3/24/2010 12:47:41 PM , Rating: 5
Well, they actually can 'hurt' Google, and the article says exactly how but it really isn't a big wound. More of a skinned knee.

If Android phones and future Chrome OS are banned from China, it will have some effect on Google's bottom line. Likewise the market share that Google has in China would go to zero pretty much immediately and that revenue would dry up.

Personally, I find it interesting how powerful Google is in this situation. This is a company that helps you look around the internet, that is basically a player in international diplomacy to some degree. And they took a stand for justice and freedom-I have to admire it, even if it isn't truly business savvy-or maybe it will turn out to be because Google tends not to make many errors in business.


RE: Good on you, Google
By digitalreflex on 3/25/2010 7:37:30 AM , Rating: 2
It is nice to see a company risk a major market and it's huge potential customer base for what they think is the right thing.


RE: Good on you, Google
By superPC on 3/24/2010 11:41:20 AM , Rating: 4
wow china saying someone else is doing cyberwarfare is like a thief screaming thief. this reminds me of that age old story: the "boy who cry wolf"...


RE: Good on you, Google
By zmatt on 3/25/2010 11:44:30 AM , Rating: 3
More like the thief suing you for getting hurt while trying to break into your house.


RE: Good on you, Google
By stimudent on 3/24/2010 2:11:02 PM , Rating: 4
The guy laying flowers on the Google sign probably has been executed by now.


RE: Good on you, Google
By JonnyDough on 3/26/2010 1:36:17 AM , Rating: 2
That could be literally anyone. With billions of Chinese people who share a lot of likeness to one another...how could they even tell who it is?


RE: Good on you, Google
By thesafetyisoff on 3/25/2010 1:14:10 PM , Rating: 3
I don't know which is more threatening, a state which seeks to control the information flow, or a multinational corporation which seeks to collect personal information.

I think it will be easier to get around China's attempts to smother dissent than it will for people to protect their privacy against Google. Sure, China can crash some servers over here, and that's an inconvenience. But imagine what Google could do to you: Google is insinuated in every aspect of your life. Google knows your credit card numbers, your passwords, what you search for, what you watch on YouTube. They know what you look like and who your friends are, since your friends are using the facial recognition feature of Google Picasa. They can track your location via your Android phone. Few of us are on China's grid - but nearly all of us are on Google's.

In fact, Google already IS Big Brother and most of us just don't know it, happily providing more and more personal information to Big G every time we do something on the Net.

Applaud Big G for standing up to China? More like fear Big G because it actually can stand up to China, something that nuclear superpowers are hesitant to do.


China can go $#% itself
By Motoman on 3/24/2010 12:10:29 PM , Rating: 4
The Chinese are afflicted by one of the most horrible governments ever conceived. One of the greatest shames of the human race is that the rest of the world stands by and doesn't do anything about it.

The government of China is evil. Google either finally saw the light and decided to abide by it's own tagline, or maybe they intentionally went in planning on pulling out later to stir the pot. Don't know.

China needs a revolution...badly. Any demands that the Chinese government makes should be ignored...they're an invalid group of abusers and oppressors and are guilty of either directly committing human rights abuses, or aiding & abetting them. Across the board.

So, government of China, I invite you to go and eff yourselves. People of China, I implore you to rise up, cast off the yoke of oppression and abuse, and RECLAIM YOUR COUNTRY...and your rights...and your dignity.




RE: China can go $#% itself
By vkelman on 3/24/10, Rating: -1
RE: China can go $#% itself
By Motoman on 3/24/2010 12:57:44 PM , Rating: 2
...so you are in favor of human rights violations? Interesting position to take.


RE: China can go $#% itself
By mikeyD95125 on 3/24/2010 5:31:43 PM , Rating: 1
Are you in favor of tens of millions dying in bloody revolutions and civil wars?

Way to distort the argument.


RE: China can go $#% itself
By Motoman on 3/24/2010 6:24:19 PM , Rating: 3
...right. Because rather than even try to do anything about it, it's best to just let the Reds continue to oppress and abuse their citizens. We'll just continue to look the other way - and buy their stuff.


RE: China can go $#% itself
By Reclaimer77 on 3/24/2010 12:59:16 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
No, please! Enough wars and revolutions for last 100 years.


Sorry but wars and revolutions are the only way to stop the status quo. Learn your history.


RE: China can go $#% itself
By mostyle on 3/24/2010 9:58:29 PM , Rating: 4
"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking... the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker."

~Albert Einstein


RE: China can go $#% itself
By vkelman on 3/24/10, Rating: -1
RE: China can go $#% itself
By Uncle on 3/24/10, Rating: 0
RE: China can go $#% itself
By Motoman on 3/24/2010 12:55:47 PM , Rating: 2
Not a bad idea. The problem is, we keep voting the retards back into office.

Democracy is a mechanism by which the people are guaranteed a government no better than they deserve.

...however, it's eminently clear that the US government is vastly better than the Chinese government...and Americans have vastly more rights and privileges than Chinese.

Is the US government perfect? Can't even see it from here. But the Chinese government is so much worse...we can't see if from here either.


RE: China can go $#% itself
By gtr32x on 3/24/2010 3:27:50 PM , Rating: 2
The Chinese government isn't the best one. But your words of hate are a bit over board. Including your statements about America having vastly greater privileges and rights. If you mean the Chinese people don't have the privilege to sit at home and be a couch potato and eventually becoming a fat prick living off public welfare, I'll give you that. But for anything else, the Chinese public have just about as much freedom as any first world country. Do not confuse China and North Korea.

If you going into any taxi in China, you might find yourself quickly joining a conversation with the driver to cuss out at the government together. Beliefs that you say anything bad about president and you will land yourself in jail is bogus. And most human rights statements are about figures such as Dalai Lama and Falun Gong. If you are willing to dig a bit further, you will find that they are no more than buddists or body and mind practioners trying to reach their hands into politics which is out of their jurisdiction and belief.

Of course, China has its crap. Their standards of living isn't exactly a perfect one you want. However, to call the government a piece of crap and trying to urge the Chinese to revolt is pure hatred and jealousy. Reasons, the ultimate purpose and objective of any government is to support its own people. Now why would the people of China rise up against a government that's growing tremendously? The people will benefit in the end if China outgrows US one day. Just look at US, during the Haiti earthquake, they blocked other countries plane just to get their own citizen out first. Now where's the talk about political incorrectness? The American government did good for their people, the government itself has done the right thing. And so did the Chinese government. Albeit still could be improved a lot more. It is no where near your portrayal of 'the most horrible governments ever conceived.'


RE: China can go $#% itself
By Reclaimer77 on 3/24/2010 4:14:45 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Chinese people don't have the privilege to sit at home and be a couch potato and eventually becoming a fat prick living off public welfare, I'll give you that.


Riiiight, no hate at all in that statement man.

quote:
the Chinese public have just about as much freedom as any first world country.


Are you the Iraqi information minister by any chance ??


RE: China can go $#% itself
By gtr32x on 3/24/10, Rating: 0
RE: China can go $#% itself
By The0ne on 3/25/2010 10:05:25 AM , Rating: 1
You realize how utterly ridiculous you are when you make any type of comments about China right? For starters, you absolutely fcking hate China during our many discussions. I use "hate" here literally. And this coming from really not having been to China or having any type of experience with them except what you Googled. Once again, our previous discussions.

And yet you have the balls, rather the ignorance to come here and say this to they guy? Holy fck you are one screwed up mfcker.


RE: China can go $#% itself
By Motoman on 3/24/2010 4:30:18 PM , Rating: 2
I'm going to say just one thing to you: You are a fool. If you truly believe what you have just said, there is no hope for you.


RE: China can go $#% itself
By gtr32x on 3/24/10, Rating: 0
RE: China can go $#% itself
By Samus on 3/24/2010 8:16:31 PM , Rating: 1
I'm not going on record to say anything rash like the United States Government 'cares' about its peoples welfare and health, because its all political fog, but the Chinese Government is known to go out of its way to put people's health at risk. Why? Well, that's a whole topic in itself, but it really comes down to money and power.

If China were...Denmark for example, I don't think people would really be affraid of them becoming powerful and rich. But with China's history, nothing good will come from them becoming the world's superpower.

Granted, I acknowledge their unique situation with having 2 billion people and the hurdles they create, but the current direction of their government is creating instability, not resolving it.


RE: China can go $#% itself
By Beno on 3/24/10, Rating: 0
Not sure what this means...
By Moohbear on 3/24/2010 10:03:25 AM , Rating: 5
I'm really astonished Google did pull out of China, forsaking profit. If I was not so cynical, I'd applaud them, but I'm cannot imagine there's not more to it than fighting the good fight... If there is, my hat down for the PR mastery. If there's not, my hat down as well for ethics and value.




RE: Not sure what this means...
By vkelman on 3/24/2010 10:34:49 AM , Rating: 5
Moohbear,
I'm with you here. But whatever hidden motives of Google are or are not, effectively Google supports freedom right now and I applaud them.
Unlike Sergey Brin, I lived for 33 years in communist USSR and therefore know it pretty well. Still, I think Sergey understands and feels it too; after all he has parents who lived most of their life under communists.

I think, that now is a moment to support principles of freedom. I think that now Google is doing that, while Microsoft betrays principles for a possible profit, while is trying to play it down.
Yes, in the past Google censored its search results in China as well. And yes, it's not a simple question, companies might argue, that providing some information to Chinese people is better than not providing it at all and leaving people with crippled info passed by Chinese Communist government. But know, after they were engaged in direct attack on Google servers for obtaining Chinese dissidents' info and on other American companies, after stupid accusation on Google providing espionage for USA government, after unfriendly and unfair attempt to block Android phones, I think it's time for American and other companies to stand up.

I would expect Microsoft, Yahoo!, RIM, Apple to support Google on that matter, rather than to calculate their business interests. And after all, Google is right: that "do not be evil" mantra eventually will give them business advantage as well, because people would trust it more, than they trust Microsoft, Yahoo!, RIM, Apple...

Vladimir Kelman
http://vkelman-blog.blogspot.com/


By TerranMagistrate on 3/24/2010 11:47:17 AM , Rating: 2
Only when the market share and profits descend below a certain threshold do companies begin stand up to this sort of injustice. And especially when the future looks bleak due to unfair government policies that are meant to benefit indigenous companies only. And the rampant theft of intellectual property can only compound this issue.

Obviously, Google weighed their options and made the right decision in the long term.


RE: Not sure what this means...
By superPC on 3/24/2010 11:50:13 AM , Rating: 2
maybe for google it's better to loose china and focus on the rest of the world. at least google goes down fighting and got good press out of it so it is in a better position to conquer the rest of the world outside of china.


speech
By jdr123 on 3/24/2010 10:29:34 AM , Rating: 2
so the Chinese don't want freedom of speech?




RE: speech
By Boze on 3/24/2010 12:15:21 PM , Rating: 1
The average Chinese citizen doesn't want to be thrown into prison and/or tortured and/or executed to get it.

Quite like most every rational person on Earth.


RE: speech
By Motoman on 3/24/2010 1:02:15 PM , Rating: 5
Exactly.

Chinese citizen: "Ah, hello, yes, I would like to know the price for freedom of speech - I'd like to discuss democracy, human rights, and Taiwan."

Chinese government: "Oh, that's a popular request...let me look at my price list here...ah, here it is, the price for that is death. We keel yoo."

Chinese citizen: "Huh. OK then, I guess I'll pass."


RE: speech
By ekv on 3/24/2010 2:28:05 PM , Rating: 3
Fortunately for us [US], our forefathers already paid that price.

All we have to do now is maintain that. Keep the torch lit. Easier said than done, though Google has come to sit at the table (for however long that lasts).


RE: speech
By gtr32x on 3/24/10, Rating: -1
RE: speech
By Mojo the Monkey on 3/24/2010 6:31:57 PM , Rating: 2
using an example of one, notable and recognized, man NOT being "disappeared" is hardly good argument supporting how well off chinese free speech is.

the very fact that certain political issues are summarily and actively censored, especially given that its usually just information or opinion and not incitement, is a HUGE indicator of just how controlling the government is.

Your persistent arguments are really saying nothing more than: "the Chinese people have learned to deal with their situation."

Learning to cope is not a substitute for freedom.


RE: speech
By Divide Overflow on 3/24/2010 10:57:06 PM , Rating: 2
"Speech is about as free as it could get in China..."
I stopped reading right there. Because of course that whole firewall / site blocking / monitoring thing gives them all kinds of freedom of speech.


China
By icanhascpu on 3/24/2010 10:10:01 AM , Rating: 5
This section of the Chinese government needs to eat a bowl of dick. I am positive most people in China, normal people like you and me that bitch about bad government policies can understand and support Google in this.




RE: China
By acase on 3/24/2010 10:55:18 AM , Rating: 1
I cannot believe I just rated someone up solely because they used the phrase "bowl of dick"


RE: China
By MadMan007 on 3/24/2010 5:45:58 PM , Rating: 3
You didn't because by posting your previous +/- votes go away.


Blind?
By eddieroolz on 3/24/2010 12:53:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
China is home to over 155 million smart phone users and that number is growing rapidly.


I don't understand why facts like this is mentioned regularly, while almost everyone seems to forget conveniently that India, right next to China, has a larger population than China and is also rapidly modernizing. In fact, doing so under a democratic political system that is quite transparent!

Forget China, we'll be looking at India next for their market. Losing China is not the end for any company, far from it.




RE: Blind?
By Divineburner on 3/24/2010 1:40:30 PM , Rating: 2
Did you just say that India has a larger population than China?

Blind?


RE: Blind?
By ekv on 3/24/2010 2:39:58 PM , Rating: 3
www.prb.org/pdf09/09wpds_eng.pdf

Most Populous Countries, 2009 and 2050 (p.2)
2009
China 1,331 (in millions)
India 1,171
US 307
etc.

2050
India 1,748
China 1,437
US 439

The one-child policy, as someone already pointed out, has made China top heavy [Japan is the worst though]. In nature, you typically have 103 boys per 100 girls. In China they have 128 boys per 100 girls.

Side-note: In the former USSR it's something like 98 boys per 100 girls. There is some thought that China might make a move into Russia -- 100 million guys want chicks. Go figure.


RE: Blind?
By ZachDontScare on 3/24/2010 1:46:28 PM , Rating: 2
I totally agree. I've never understood why so much focus is placed on doing business with China, as opposed to the worlds largest democracy, India. And China isnt, imo, the future 'dragon' people make it out to be. Its one child policy has left it very top-heavy, demographically, and a smaller, younger population will soon be saddled with supporting a huge older population.

Unless, to be cynical, with China being so centrally controlled, there's fewer people to pay off.


Rubber and Glue
By MrPeabody on 3/24/2010 11:14:37 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
According to the Chinese government, the U.S. is committing a campaign of cyberwarfare against it (its claims echo those voiced by top U.S. armed forces officials, who conversely claim China is carrying out a cyberwarfare effort against the U.S.).


Ah yes, the ol' "I'm not stupid, you're stupid!" defense.




RE: Rubber and Glue
By Divide Overflow on 3/24/2010 10:16:15 PM , Rating: 2
The ancient Chinese diplomatic play:
"I know you are but what am I?"


Error
By futrtrubl on 3/24/2010 12:18:48 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
The Chinese government is also pushing telecoms to terminate their search deals with China

Think that should be Google.




RE: Error
By Omega215D on 3/25/2010 12:31:27 AM , Rating: 3
deep down inside the chinese government is so appalled at how they act that they don't even want to do business with themselves...


You can still use google without Android...
By tayb on 3/24/2010 2:32:00 PM , Rating: 2
The Apple iPhone default browsing search engine is Google and I don't even know if it is possible to change it. I have no idea what the default search engine is on RIM's Blackberry devices but regardless google.com can still be accessed via the web.

China is acting like a crying little brat. I think they were completely caught off guard. All American companies should pull out of China and move operations to India. It wouldn't cost a dime more and it would certainly send a message.




By The0ne on 3/25/2010 12:55:49 PM , Rating: 2
Transitions cost quite a bit of time, resources and money actually. And not everyone can do it on time less efficiently and correctly.


Puzzled
By XZavios on 3/24/2010 6:44:25 PM , Rating: 1
I have a question...

Why do Americans always forget they owe China lots and lots of money?

Wonder what happens when China asks for those funds back?




RE: Puzzled
By Divide Overflow on 3/24/2010 10:22:33 PM , Rating: 2
Easy. We simply start enforcing about 10% of the patents they are abusing and call it even.


RE: Puzzled
By XZavios on 3/25/2010 1:15:40 AM , Rating: 1
Hmm but would 10% of those patents give u a trillion dollars?

hmmmm


Search results aren't just the end.
By drycrust3 on 3/24/2010 11:10:49 AM , Rating: 1
People forget that there are two stages involved in getting to a website. The first is the search engine result that tells you that a particular website has the information you are interested in, while the second is getting to that particular website.
There is a basic precept of law that you should obey the law of whatever country you operate in. If you wish to disobey the law, sometimes the best way to do that is by obeying the law. By obeying the law you don't upset the governement bureacrats who then worry about other things and don't know or want to know about your illegal activities. If, however, you start making a fuss about their laws, it comes to the attention of their masters, who then demand the bureaucrats investigate you, and then your illegal activities become evident and the bureaucrats are forced to know about them and do something.
By censoring their results, Google probably had more freedom than if they didn't. If they "forgot" or "mistakenly" let information through, the bureaucrats wouldn't worry because the second stage of getting to whereever would mostly pick up the bits Google "missed", but crucially there was a window which wasn't covered. By not censoring the bureaucrats have to jump up and down and annoy people and that window of uncensored websites shrinks.




By Parhel on 3/24/2010 2:47:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
there are two stages involved in getting to a website. The first is the search engine result that tells you that a particular website has the information you are interested in, while the second is getting to that particular website.


I love this. I wish I could have pasted that definition into one of my old IT textbooks. That's even better than my seven layer burrito network model.


Smart
By Danger D on 3/24/2010 10:53:14 AM , Rating: 2
Smart. Go into China, so the people get a taste of it. Leave China so they now know what they’re missing. This probably put a lot more pressure on the Chinese govt. than simply never entering the market.




By KayDat on 3/24/2010 12:50:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The Hong Kong site uses the same simplified Chinese characters that the mainland uses and thus is readable to those in mainland China.

Hong Kong uses Simplified Chinese? That's news to me. Hell, Hong Kong is one of the last few places alongside TW and Macau that use Traditional. Here's a quote from the Google Blog:
quote:
Users visiting Google.cn are now being redirected to Google.com.hk, where we are offering uncensored search in simplified Chinese, specifically designed for users in mainland China and delivered via our servers in Hong Kong. Users in Hong Kong will continue to receive their existing uncensored, traditional Chinese service, also from Google.com.hk

As far as I know, only people accessing Google HK from China will see Simplified Chinese.




@ google
By Spectator on 3/24/2010 2:57:03 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you.

But I hope you have all your CN hardware providers pinned down in legal obligations; "Should" any hardware/software produced thier develop "issues" after you have sold a few million's :)

Paranoia/pay back from this move, needs to be managed now im thinking..




Google is enemy no.1 in China now
By iluvdeal on 3/24/2010 5:03:53 PM , Rating: 2
If they thought they could just close their search but continue their other business dealings in China like their mobile OS Android division, they must have been kidding themselves. Once you go against the Chinese government, you become their enemy. Google won't be able to do any business whatsoever in China now, you watch and see.




Mind your OWN F^%&* business Obama
By vcolon on 3/25/2010 7:43:01 AM , Rating: 2
Google is a "private" company. The U.S. government should not meddle in any dispute between China and Google. The Chinese government can go screw themselves




go home
By gescom on 3/25/2010 4:33:13 PM , Rating: 2
Why do you Americans care so much about others? What do you really want? Exporting even more of "your" Democracy? Just stop it, if they don't want you, just go home with your fcuking globalisation and your profits. USA wannabe empire must and will die. Just wait and see. Stop whining and leave us alone.




It's China
By pjs on 3/25/2010 5:33:19 PM , Rating: 2
They are total strangers to the truth.




CHINA 1, GOOGLE 0.
By anandtech02148 on 3/25/2010 11:00:05 PM , Rating: 2
article have a very valid point. most english readers are trolls of their own government's filth propaganda. they become consumer trolls and will nodd at anything their govt has to point out about other country's business.
GOOGLE, AND GOOGLE MAP IS A KEY INGREDIENT for what china has pointed out. google map is a product of a company called Keystone who is a contractor for the CIA years ago. even though the map maybe 2yrs old, it still good enough to update those cruise missiles target database. to have access to satellite data something a u2 spy plane still do is extremely sensitive data. AMERICANS ILL-INFORM ARE LOUD MOUTH TROLLS WHO PREACH "FREEDOM & VIRGINITY" THEY NEED TO DIE.




New Rules, yay!
By The0ne on 3/26/2010 10:48:31 AM , Rating: 2
chinadigitaltimes.net/2010/03/the-latest-directives -from-the-ministry-of-truth-032310/

www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/world/asia/22banned.ht ml




Respond to what ??
By Reclaimer77 on 3/24/10, Rating: -1
RE: Respond to what ??
By TerranMagistrate on 3/24/10, Rating: -1
RE: Respond to what ??
By banthracis on 3/24/2010 11:58:34 AM , Rating: 5
In all honestly, Israel brought it's current trouble on itself.
Politically stirring up a hornet's nest out of the blue without informing your allies before hand and expecting them to support you is not the way diplomacy, or any sort of relationship should work.



RE: Respond to what ??
By vkelman on 3/24/10, Rating: 0
RE: Respond to what ??
By Reclaimer77 on 3/24/10, Rating: -1
RE: Respond to what ??
By wiz220 on 3/24/2010 1:02:49 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Relations with Israel and China are at 30 year lows.


LOL, what metric is used to measure this? I don't think everyone voted for Obama to necessarily make everyone love us, they did it because they believed he would do the right thing and that MIGHT lead to better foreign relations. That doesn't mean that Obama ever had control over what these other countries do. If Israel is going to act irresponsibly at a very inopportune time as far as peace talks are concerned, and China is going to continue trampling human rights, it's THEY who have strained relations, not us. I appreciate any leader (be it political or business) who will stand up and speak out when someone, especially an ally, is acting inappropriately.


RE: Respond to what ??
By Reclaimer77 on 3/24/10, Rating: 0
RE: Respond to what ??
By clovell on 3/24/2010 1:43:51 PM , Rating: 2
You appreciate our leaders exacerbating the situation by straining relations with friend and foe alike by calling them out on the world stage?

Give me a break.


RE: Respond to what ??
By Reclaimer77 on 3/24/10, Rating: -1
RE: Respond to what ??
By clovell on 3/24/10, Rating: 0
RE: Respond to what ??
By Reclaimer77 on 3/24/10, Rating: -1
RE: Respond to what ??
By zmatt on 3/25/2010 11:46:49 AM , Rating: 3
How about we stop trolling and get back on topic? We can argue about Obama's foreign policy on the next article that mentions it.


RE: Respond to what ??
By TerranMagistrate on 3/24/2010 12:43:09 PM , Rating: 2
It's not just the current situation that I'm alluding to. I recently read somewhere that Obama is blocking Israel from purchasing U.S. military hardware of all sorts, sales that were already underway when the current president took office.


RE: Respond to what ??
By GiantPandaMan on 3/24/2010 2:19:32 PM , Rating: 2
Citation or you're just spreading FUD.


RE: Respond to what ??
By TerranMagistrate on 3/24/2010 2:46:47 PM , Rating: 2
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/201...

quote:
In 2008, the United States approved an Israeli request for bunker-busters capable of destroying underground facilities, including Iranian nuclear weapons sites. Officials said delivery of the weapons was held up by the administration of President Barack Obama, Middle East Newsline reported.

Since taking office, Obama has refused to approve any major Israeli requests for U.S. weapons platforms or advanced systems. Officials said this included proposed Israeli procurement of AH-64D Apache attack helicopters, refueling systems, advanced munitions and data on a stealth variant of the F-15E. "All signs indicate that this will continue in 2010," a congressional source familiar with the Israeli military requests said. "This is really an embargo, but nobody talks about it publicly."


For stability in the region, Israel needs a significant military advantage as a deterrent. Obama seems keen on undermining Israel in this regard and so in every regard.


RE: Respond to what ??
By clovell on 3/24/10, Rating: 0
RE: Respond to what ??
By Ardan on 3/24/2010 3:19:31 PM , Rating: 2
You really think they would've actually listened to him even if he was to be impossibly specific? He could've told them not to build houses on a certain block of a certain area and they would've ignored him. The Israeli PM, Benjamin Netanyahu, isn't very moderate at all. They had every intention of building over there, regardless of the administration's displeasure. The fault lies with the current Israeli government, not Obama, over this current tension.


RE: Respond to what ??
By clovell on 3/24/2010 4:21:48 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah, asshat, I do - you can't just not tell someone where the line is, and then bitch them out for crossing it in front of everybody, and finally justify you're not telling them where it was by saying, "Oh, well - you wouldn't have cared anyway."

That's what's lacking in the administration, same as the last one - accountability. Biden F*cked up, and you're excusing it. The fault lies with Obama, because Obama's administration botched this one bad.

Your entire argument is retarded.


RE: Respond to what ??
By chruschef on 3/24/2010 12:00:21 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Obama was going to make the rest of the world LOVE America, wasn't he ? I think all this Google vs China crap is more right wing GOP slander. There is no way China would behave this way with Savior Obama at the wheel.


Wait what? That's pretty illogical, Democrats and Republicans can agree that the censorship in China is unjust. The only issue between the two parties beyond that, is exactly what to do about it. It's like walking on ice, if Obama did take a hard line against the actions of the Chinese censorship and cyber-warfare what would happen to our trade relations? (America relies heavily on China for an astounding portion of its goods, remember almost everything says "Made in China".) I would assert the safest route for now, is to deny any cyber-warfare (which is what we all know they'll do, it's pretty cold war-esque.) and allow the Chinese people to continue protesting their own government. China is the most protested government in the world, and because of the business sectors some citizens of China have been gaining some liberties, capitalist opportunities and personal success, slowly albeit. These factors, I think, will only drive them to desire more, as America's founding fathers did, and the people of China will take to the streets for them in even larger numbers than now. At that point, we must hope that the Obamas of this world will notice and take action. Until then it's probably best we don't get to involved and end up with an Iraq like situation, fighting someone else's war won't end well. (By that I mean, we remove a government from power and "force" democracy on another country by military power. Democracy in a country has to be earned by a people, as we did, or it will never be appreciated and/or effective. As is the case in Iraq, or at least I think so.)


RE: Respond to what ??
By Reclaimer77 on 3/24/2010 12:12:51 PM , Rating: 2
dude it was sarcasm..sigh


RE: Respond to what ??
By chruschef on 3/24/2010 12:25:42 PM , Rating: 2
LOL. *palm to face*

my bad, regardless I was just looking for an excuse to write my opinion in response to someone else's. :)


RE: Respond to what ??
By vkelman on 3/24/2010 12:39:54 PM , Rating: 2
@chruschef,
Your opinion is well stated. Good point.


RE: Respond to what ??
By Reclaimer77 on 3/24/2010 12:48:45 PM , Rating: 1
Yes he made his case well. Except I have one nitpick. England had to traverse months long oceanic trips to reinforce and combat the uprising in America. It would be far different for the Chinese people to try and revolt against the government with China's full military might on everyone's doorstep.


RE: Respond to what ??
By clovell on 3/24/2010 1:48:42 PM , Rating: 2
America needs to start taking action and sanctioning China for this kind of BS. We've lost jobs, companies, and segments of industry to China with our free trade policies. China responds with BS like this, punitive tariffs, unsafe products, workers' rights atrocities, and the like.

The Chinese economy is burgeoning enough to come into its own. Now it's time America starts treating it like an adult rather than a kid, and endorses a more quid-por-quo trade policy that punishes their tariffs and unfair trade practices with similar tariffs on our end - see how they like the heat.


RE: Respond to what ??
By Performance Fanboi on 3/24/2010 2:22:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
America needs to start taking action and sanctioning China


Unfortunately that would be like suing your landlord.


"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance." -- Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer














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