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Print 47 comment(s) - last by Regs.. on Jan 20 at 1:20 PM

China says law abiding internet firms are welcome

The battle between Google and the Chinese government is heating up. China is one of the most prolific blockers of internet content in the world. The country has a myriad of laws on the books that govern what types of content can be posted or viewed on the internet. The Chinese government has been harsh in its crack down on journalists and bloggers who post unauthorized information on the internet.

Google Announced yesterday that it might leave the search business in China after a hacking attack resulted in the theft of valuable source code and intellectual property owned by Google. Google also cited rampant hacking of email accounts as another reason it is considering vacating the Chinese market.

Google Chief Legal counsel David Drummond wrote at the time Google made the announcement, "In mid-December, we detected a highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google. However, it soon became clear that what at first appeared to be solely a security incident--albeit a significant one--was something quite different."

To this point, Google has adhered to Chinese law by censoring and blocking content deemed objectionable by the Chinese government. Google has announced that it intends to stop censoring its content in China and will seek to make an agreement with the Chinese government. The official response from China didn’t specifically name Google, but the intention was clear.

Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu said, "The Chinese government administers the Internet according to law and we have explicit stipulations over what content can be spread on the Internet." The Chinese government also stated that it welcomed global internet firms that obeyed the laws in China.

Google has stated that it wants to come to an agreement with China that would allow it to offer unfiltered searches and that it would be removing the restrictions on searched in the coming weeks.

Drummond said, "We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China."

Google appears ready to push this as far as it can, even if that means an end to Google in China. Duncan Clark, the chairman of Internet and telecommunications consulting firm BDA China said, "Google.cn is toast. Just keep pressing refresh on your browser and see what happens."

China is expected to take a very firm stance against the unfaltering of Google search results. Huang Jin, a professor at the National University of Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy said, "The Chinese government may want to give Google’s high- profile move the cold shoulder. Given the reason Google cited in its announcement -- that Google.cn can no longer put up with Beijing’s censorship -- the CCP leaders are afraid that it could set a dangerous political precedent should they compromise on this one."

If Google leaves the Chinese search market, the firms left will include the leader in Chinese search Baidu, Yahoo, and Microsoft. Wang Chen, director of the State Council Information Office said, "Effective guidance of public opinion on the Internet is an important way of protecting the security of online information." Wang also stated, "China is a country being harmed by Internet hackers and is firmly opposed to hacking attacks."



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Law abiding internet firms are welcome...
By Barfo on 1/14/2010 10:49:14 AM , Rating: 5
...but the government is free to launch attacks and steal IP from them as they please?

That's golden.




RE: Law abiding internet firms are welcome...
By jRaskell on 1/14/2010 10:58:11 AM , Rating: 5
That's the nature of a tyrannical government though. The law allows the government to do anything they want, but severely restricts anyone else from doing anything that could even remotely influence the people against the government.

Let's not confuse legal/illegal with right/wrong. If the laws are made by a corrupt government, they are very often in direct opposition to what one would consider right and wrong.

And the reality is, virtually every government has some level of corruption that results in laws that are more wrong than right. Some are just more corrupt than others.


RE: Law abiding internet firms are welcome...
By Regected on 1/14/2010 11:47:27 AM , Rating: 4
Another sad truth is that the US government is striving to be just like the chines government in all its tyrannical glory. The constitution is being thrown out the door all in the name of "freedom."


RE: Law abiding internet firms are welcome...
By wiz220 on 1/14/2010 12:15:27 PM , Rating: 5
No... The constitution started getting thrown out the window in the name of SECURITY!


RE: Law abiding internet firms are welcome...
By kaoken on 1/14/2010 12:29:08 PM , Rating: 2
This man speaks the truth, why is he being rated down.


RE: Law abiding internet firms are welcome...
By drycrust3 on 1/14/2010 2:20:52 PM , Rating: 5
Because he told the truth.


By Regs on 1/20/2010 1:04:55 PM , Rating: 2
Anybody else see the irony in the above statments related to the article?


By BarkHumbug on 1/15/2010 6:44:01 AM , Rating: 2
Don't forget the children. It's for the sake of protecting the children...


By Chaser on 1/15/2010 10:08:53 AM , Rating: 3
You mean in the name of health care "reform" as recent examples of the so called transparency that was going to take place under this new wonderful administration. Cspan being blocked out of these so called "bipartisan negotitations" which really are done behind closed doors.

Cutting deals with taxpayer money with individual states like Nebraska and Louisiana in order to win over senator votes despite the nearly overwhelming lack of their constiuents support for this ridiculous heathcare takeover by their fed government?

I'm sure thats what you were referring to right?


By Tim Thorpe on 1/14/2010 2:06:52 PM , Rating: 5
Would you expect anything less?

China is a master and playing its cards.

US firms literally hand their technology advancements to the chinese government. The idea that china has any degree of a capitalist economy is a farce.

They have mastered the ability to manage information and effectively silence decent among their people.

They have allowed the breeding of an army of slave worker bees to do their bidding for them.

And the worst part is, we let them do it and screwed ourselves in the process, we even allow them in to our education system and teach them how to do it.


By vxmqzz on 1/14/2010 11:59:43 PM , Rating: 2
where is the evidence ? Even google isn't sure


By Beno on 1/15/2010 2:41:18 PM , Rating: 2
although the chinese gov could be responsible on some recent sophisticated attacks, no one can point the finger at the government.
if the victims have very good evidence on the source of these attacks, you'd see them all over the news pointing the finger at the chinese government. but they just say "it came from china"


First of all...
By Motoman on 1/14/2010 11:26:07 AM , Rating: 3
...thank you, Google, for FINALLY living up to your tagline "do no evil." Because aiding and abetting China's abusive policies to keep it's citizens ignorant and misinformed is, categorically, evil. Took you a while, but thanks.

Secondly, eff you China. You are one of the most abusive governments in the world, and the very fact that the rest of the world's governments tolerates your existence is a species-wide shame. The Chinese government is fundamentally corrupt, to the core, irrecoverably and absolutely. The abuse of the Chinese people at the hands of their government is horrific.

The only proper relation any government, or company, can have with the Chinese government is no relation - at a minimum. I have to wonder about the morality of the rest of the world standing by and tolerating the Chinese government, let alone doing business with it...and assisting in it's abuse of it's citizens.




RE: First of all...
By RMSistight on 1/14/2010 11:52:08 AM , Rating: 2
For most of the Chinese people, they are willing to give up certain rights in return for economic prosperity.


RE: First of all...
By Motoman on 1/14/2010 11:57:32 AM , Rating: 1
Bullshit.


RE: First of all...
By Hieyeck on 1/14/2010 3:31:55 PM , Rating: 2
Go ask a Chinese salaryman then.


RE: First of all...
By Motoman on 1/14/2010 6:04:50 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, that'll prove a point...

If the government tells the people that they must choose between human rights and a paycheck...then they'll take the paycheck.

However, if you'll care to notice, there's no need to give up your rights to earn a living. Like, in essentially every democratic country in the world.

Not real hard to prove that argument invalid. You categorically do not have to sacrifice your own rights to earn a living and prosper. If prosperity came from giving up your rights, the average Chinese citizen would be a billionaire.


RE: First of all...
By chick0n on 1/14/10, Rating: -1
RE: First of all...
By snakeInTheGrass on 1/16/2010 4:38:36 AM , Rating: 1
Just 1.2 trillion? That's just for goat fuxking fagg0ts! It's over 12 trillion. So go ROF with a goat or something. 1.2 trillion - f'ing weak! Any fagg0ty country can have that for a debt.


RE: First of all...
By Laereom on 1/17/2010 12:40:34 PM , Rating: 1
Actually, the Chinese, while attempting to diversify, are buying our debt up at an astounding rate.

Y'see, children, America has what is (perhaps sadly) the most transparent, level-handed, and well-developed financial system in the world.

The rest of the world recognizes that, and American dollars are prized as the paramount reserve currency in the world because of it.

Sure, it's now getting screwed up because of stupid decision-making, but in spite of that, it's -still- the best option around short of commodities.

China, for instance, purchases hundreds of billions of dollars of American government debt every year...no begging necessary. Sure, they're now diversifying into euros, SDRs, and gold, but the vast majority of their new purchases and total holdings are still American dollars.


RE: First of all...
By Regs on 1/20/2010 1:20:53 PM , Rating: 2
Well the demand for the dollar is a little more complicated than that....Most of it has to do with a combo of interest rates on bonds, GDP, inflation, and i/e ratios.

And maybe what you mean by transparent or level-handed is that we run our monetary policies from a central bank like other 'free market' countries (Bank of England, India, Reserve Bank of Australia)that our independent of our excutive branch.


RE: First of all...
By AEvangel on 1/15/2010 10:48:53 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
If the government tells the people that they must choose between human rights and a paycheck...then they'll take the paycheck.


Then that is the person's choice and you have no more right then the Govt taking away those rights to change that choice. The person making that choice must make the change.

quote:
However, if you'll care to notice, there's no need to give up your rights to earn a living. Like, in essentially every democratic country in the world.


Oh, really?? Where is that? Cause I can't seem to find any countries like which you speak of.

quote:
Not real hard to prove that argument invalid. You categorically do not have to sacrifice your own rights to earn a living and prosper. If prosperity came from giving up your rights, the average Chinese citizen would be a billionaire.


An I assume by your analogy the people in most of Europe and America would be Millionaires then??

Not defending the previous poster, but your blanket statements are inherently wrong, at least the Chinese govt makes no illusion of Freedom like the US and European Govt's do. All that being said though it's the people that make that choice and till the people making the choice realize what they have given up and want it back, no matter of fighting it on your part will make a difference.

Personally, if I were Google I would continue to operate in China. The only way you can change something like this is through dialog and by shutting down business there they are killing any chance for Dialog.


RE: First of all...
By RMSistight on 1/15/2010 3:30:55 PM , Rating: 2
This is exactly what I'm talking about. If the people really REALLY cared about certain freedoms, then the people should rise up to do something about it.

But seriously look at China. They are growing at an ENORMOUS rate as a country. With so many businesses opening up shop in China, that helps create jobs for the people. Ever since Tienanmen Square, China has become an international economic powerhouse. And it seems that the people are willing to let the government do what they want for it to continue this way.

Remember. Change starts with the people in order to start a revolution. If the majority of the Chinese like it this way, then they'll let it slide...which is what they've been doing.

They would rather trade certain freedoms for economic prosperity. I'm not saying it's something I would agree to, but if the majority of the Chinese like it this way who are we judge? It's their rights, it's their country, it's their laws.

If Google doesn't feel welcomed, they can leave. No one is forcing them to stay. I know it sucks but that's the Chinese government. Play by our rules or don't play at all. I will say that if Google leaves that's a potential $600 million a year in revenues they will be losing. At the same time the Chinese might be pissed to.


RE: First of all...
By erple2 on 1/14/2010 6:06:17 PM , Rating: 2
If you don't know that you should have those rights, or you have never had those rights, and steps are taken so you can't know what those rights are, how do you know what you're giving up in exchange for economic prosperity?


RE: First of all...
By Flail on 1/19/2010 12:39:15 AM , Rating: 2
So it's like the movie Equilibrium then?


RE: First of all...
By xprojected on 1/14/2010 1:45:35 PM , Rating: 2
As long as consumers flock to the cheapest goods possible, China has us by the gonads. Morality has no home in Megalomart.


RE: First of all...
By Motoman on 1/14/2010 2:21:07 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not disputing that. I'm questioning our ethics, as a whole, in apparently trading cheap commerce for human rights violations.


RE: First of all...
By MadMan007 on 1/14/2010 4:11:46 PM , Rating: 2
Ethics are a minor concern at best when it comes to profit.


RE: First of all...
By PascalT on 1/15/2010 7:46:22 PM , Rating: 2
I dunno if you're American but, if you are, your comment is really ironic. The Chinese govt is no worse than the American one. It's just more upfront with the crap they do.


RE: First of all...
By zmatt on 1/16/2010 10:31:11 PM , Rating: 2
+1
the man speaks the truth.

We should have nothing to do with China until they clean up their act. Props to google for growing a pair.


What's stopping us
By corduroygt on 1/14/2010 11:58:44 AM , Rating: 2
From sending a ship just off their coast with a powerful transmitter and broadcast the news from the free world on TV/radio frequencies?




RE: What's stopping us
By blagishnessosity on 1/14/2010 12:28:04 PM , Rating: 4
Haha, very clever! But I think we wouldn't for fear that China will stop buying our debt!


RE: What's stopping us
By HighWing on 1/14/2010 12:34:17 PM , Rating: 2
Just a stab in the dark as I don't know for sure, but I would suspect if the transmitted waves reach the shore that could be some breach of international treaties etc etc. At the least I'm sure they could claim it "interferes" with their own current broadcasts.
Plus on the flip side what would stop them from just blowing the ship out of the water under the notion that the rogue broadcasts were made with malicious intent to interfere with the government and thus constitute an attack on the country from which they responded with force.

Granted I don't know the exact laws, but I would venture I'm not that far off from what could be.

All that aside I would love to see that idea actually happen though.


RE: What's stopping us
By MadMan007 on 1/14/2010 12:47:46 PM , Rating: 2
It's too easy to use jamming to stop what most independent groups could do. Another nation, especially the US which funds itself from the Chinese buying debt which they can do without inflation thanks to their artifically pegged currency, would not officially do it for fear of losing their banker plus it would make other negitiations harder.

As far as international law I think that an independent group could do this if they were in international waters. The Chinese wouldn't be so brash as to just blow them up. The ship registry location may have something to do with what treaties and laws they have to follow but one could probably 'registry shop' easily enough. Really though all that isn't quite necessary with shortwave radio, it can't be used for data but it can reach a good long way. Whether the Chinese people can receive it is another thing.


I wonder
By MadMan007 on 1/14/2010 10:37:31 AM , Rating: 3
Here's a question: do 'average users' in China actually hear about news like this, or is this type of news itself filtered? It makes me wonder what those people would think or say (the latter probably not so much sine they are not used to free speech) is they did know about this.




RE: I wonder
By Obujuwami on 1/14/2010 11:00:46 AM , Rating: 2
That is a very good question. There is a book, Revolt in 2100 by Robert Heinlein, where the American government does pretty much the same thing with things like the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and other articles from the revolutionary war that provoke revolution and independence.

Heinlein may have read the tea leaves a bit early, but I think he called it and China is gonna have a revolution soon if Google gets away with this.


RE: I wonder
By MadMan007 on 1/14/2010 11:16:51 AM , Rating: 2
(loads of typos, d'oh, but the meaning comes through)


RE: I wonder
By banthracis on 1/14/2010 11:51:55 AM , Rating: 2
This news is filtered and censored in China.

However, amongst the youth it does spread rather quickly by word of mouth. For the majority of the nation though, anything they hear is what the government wants them to.


China says law abiding internet firms are welcome
By Creig on 1/14/2010 10:30:24 AM , Rating: 5
I think my irony meter just exploded.




By Crank the Planet on 1/14/2010 2:12:17 PM , Rating: 2
And to think we gave them most favored nation status? Why the H*** are we buying their products? Why are we doing business with them at all. All of the stuff that comes from their country is utter crap quality wise.

We are making them prosper- to our own shame. Remember when the news broke out they have nukes pointed at us? Clinton went over there to negotiate. Nothing changed. They are still pointed at us. We need to take away that MFN status and give it to some other countries.


That's funny
By n0ebert on 1/14/2010 10:23:11 AM , Rating: 5
"China is a country being harmed by Internet hackers and is firmly opposed to hacking attacks."

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't most hacking attempts come from China? I speak from my own personal experience dealing with hacks that exploit security holes in software I've used. Where did these hacks originate from? According to the logs, the IP's came from China.




RE: That's funny
By HighWing on 1/14/2010 11:18:54 AM , Rating: 2
I was thinking the same thing. If China is being harmed by hackers, it's most likely revenge from what chinese hackers did in the first place.


RE: That's funny
By chick0n on 1/14/10, Rating: -1
Heres an idea...
By letmepicyou on 1/14/2010 4:20:00 PM , Rating: 3
Lets pretend we're google, kindred spirit of Big Brother. Lets form a long-term plan to cement our dominance and approval with the american public. Lets say we open up a huge barrel of monkeys by getting into the Chinese market. We'll make a few bucks but the market isn't really that important at the moment. Instead, we'll side on anti-human rights JUST long enough until people start to identify Google with an evil Big Brother corporation just like all the rest. Then what we'll do is we'll back track suddenly on China, claiming to be champions of human rights. All of a sudden, people forget about Google being this huge monopolistic privacy and human rights trouncing behemoth, and all of a sudden we're riding a warm, sunny wave of good press and PR for our sudden bold move. What we won't mention is that we should have paid a bit more attention to our "Do No Evil" policy a long time ago by telling our OWN govt to go f*** themselves where it comes to privacy issues, and doing the same thing to the Chinese at the same time. One way is a method of REALLY doing no evil. The other method is a way of manipulating the press and web news to put positive spin in a place where it otherwise should not be, thus fooing the public into thinking we're the good guys when the opposite is true.
Just a theory.




Baidu
By zyzeast on 1/14/2010 10:25:04 AM , Rating: 2
it's Baidu not Badu :)




It is sad
By thatmikeguy on 1/14/2010 4:29:25 PM , Rating: 2
What I would like to do. I know for a fact, because I was able to talk with several people from china before they could shut down everything, that the people LOVE American movies. The problem is that they change the words and text. I would LOVE to release a video of several seconds each of many of their top movies, with the words changed back to the original. It is unreal what they see and hear about the rest of the world. Most only hear stories and rumors of how things actually are, if that. When I would show one of them our copy of something they were reading, they would gasp. It always ended up the same, “Well, what can I do?”.




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