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China has defended its internet policing and accuses the U.S. of being hypocritical and carrying out censorship of its own.  (Source: Macon Daily)
China's confrontation with U.S. and Google continues

The rift between Google and China has affected many in the tech industry.  The world's largest internet firm has taken on the world's largest nation in response to a theft of intellectual property that started with a flaw in Microsoft's Internet Explorer and ended in a trail of cyber evidence leading back to China's doorstep. 

Now, even as Google threatens to pull out of the Chinese search business completely, shutting down Google.cn, the U.S. government has stepped up to the plate challenging China to listen to the concerns of Google and other firms.  U.S. Senator Hillary Clinton delivered sharp remarks criticizing China's duality of cyber-lawlessness and harsh censorship of certain materials.

Now, China is responding indignantly to the criticism.  A spokesperson for China's State Council Information Office, the organization that helps to filter China's internet traffic addressed the U.S. governments criticism, remarking, "[China] bans using the Internet to subvert state power and wreck national unity, to incite ethnic hatred and division, to promote cults and to distribute content that is pornographic, salacious, violent or terrorist.  China has an ample legal basis for punishing such harmful content, and there is no room for doubting this. This is completely different from so-called restriction of Internet freedom."

The response aired Monday on China's state run government website, www.gov.cn.

China has an internet population of over 384 million, but it continues to tightly control the content its users can view, filtering traffic through a system that is dubbed "The Great Firewall" by U.S. observers.  Additionally, over 120 million users in China access the web from their mobile devices, adding a new challenge for internet censors.

China's dispute with the U.S. however, may be a sign of tensions outside the tech arena boiling over.  The U.S. recently announced that it would be selling modern weapons to Taiwan, a renegade state that China still insists it owns.  U.S. President Barack Obama will also meet with the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled Buddhist leader, in coming months.  Despite his dogma of pacifism, Chinese officials call the Dalai Lama a dangerous extremist for promoting Tibetan separatism.

Jin Canrong, a professor of international relations at Renmin University in Beijing, comments, "This year, we're seeing problems over trade, the Dalai Lama, and U.S. weapons sales to Taiwan coming to the surface.  The politicization and ideological turn of the Google case could make it more difficult to work together. The basic need for cooperation, economically and diplomatically, hasn't changed, but each of these issues could disrupt cooperation from day to day."

Tibet is one of the key issues that is chilling relations between the U.S. and China.  Another is signs of censorship and oppression stemming from internet activity.  Late last, year a Chinese blogger and author Liu Xiabo was sentenced to 11 years in prison for spreading subversive writings on the internet.  China has banned a variety of U.S. websites including YouTube, Twitter and Facebook in recent months.

China's government denies that the Google attacks originated from within Chinese borders.  And state-run Chinese newspapers on Monday blasted the U.S. as hypocritical.  Editorials accused the U.S. of exploiting video-sharing site YouTube and micro-blogging site Twitter to drive unrest in Iran.  They also point to current and pending legislation on the U.S. state and national level that would impose government filters on the internet content that minors can view.  Proclaims one column, "This 'Internet freedom' that is being promoted everywhere is nothing more than a foreign policy tool, a fantasy of freedom."



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China is clueless
By The0ne on 1/25/2010 10:15:36 AM , Rating: 5
Someone seriously needs to give those politicians dictionaries so they can look up what censorship is and what it entails.

As far as I can translate they are talking out of the ass.




RE: China is clueless
By yomamafor1 on 1/25/2010 10:21:22 AM , Rating: 5
Its the Chinese government. They'll make whatever up to suit their agendas. After all, its their way, or the high way with a truckload of soldiers pointing rifles at your back.


RE: China is clueless
By StevoLincolnite on 1/25/2010 12:06:30 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
They'll make whatever up to suit their agendas.


You just pretty much described every politician on the planet. :P


RE: China is clueless
By heffeque on 1/25/10, Rating: -1
RE: China is clueless
By heffeque on 1/25/10, Rating: -1
RE: China is clueless
By heffeque on 1/25/10, Rating: -1
RE: China is clueless
By CHAOQIANG on 1/25/10, Rating: -1
RE: China is clueless
By chick0n on 1/26/2010 12:05:54 AM , Rating: 4
So what did the US government did to Iraq? oh yeah they got WMD .... NOT !

Every government will make whatever up to suit their agendas.


RE: China is clueless
By kyleb2112 on 1/26/10, Rating: 0
RE: China is clueless
By 306maxi on 1/25/2010 10:45:29 AM , Rating: 3
They understand it perfectly well. All China does is deny whatever they're accused of and everyone accepts it because China either make 99% of the stuff you buy or own a huge chunk of your country.


RE: China is clueless
By MozeeToby on 1/25/2010 11:37:54 AM , Rating: 1
Total US debt: ~$13 trillion
US debt owned by China: <$1 trillion
Cost of the Iraq war: ~$2 trillion
Cost of the financial crisis: ~$8 trillion

If the Chinese government magically 'called in' all the T-bills they own (which isn't at all how T-bills work), the total damage to the US economy would be less than half the cost of the Iraq war, and less than an eight the cost of the financial crisis.

In reality, this cost would be spread out over several decades as the T-bills come due and cause a gradual increase in the interest rate such T-bills would offer, increasing the value for other investors, foreign and domestic. Could China not buying US debt hurt the economy? Of course. Would it destroy the economy? No.


RE: China is clueless
By RandomUsername3463 on 1/25/2010 1:42:36 PM , Rating: 1
The road goes in both directions. If China dumped T-bills, the dollar would lose a tremendous amount of value. Their currency is fixed to the dollar's value, so they would also lose big.

In this case, the relative strength of their currency vs. the trashed dollar would mean that no one in the US could afford Chinese exports & so their manufacturing-based economy would get trashed right along with hours.

Pretty much a catch-22 situation for both sides.


RE: China is clueless
By Solandri on 1/25/2010 2:21:08 PM , Rating: 2
In addition, U.S. imports form China were $338 billion in 2008. Exports around $70 billion, for $408 billion total trade.

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700....

U.S. GDP was $14.2 trillion in 2008, so trade with China accounted for just 2.9% of our economy.

China's GDP in 2008 was about $.4 trillion, so trade with the U.S. accounted for 9.3% of their economy.

Furthermore, China makes very little of the stuff they manufacture. If relations with them were to sour, businesses would just move most of their manufacturing to places like Thailand and Malaysia. We'd still get lots of almost-as-cheap products, while the Chinese would be left with nothing to manufacture.

The only trump card China holds is that relations with the U.S. could sour while relations with the EU remain good, or vice versa. That would put U.S. companies at a competitive manufacturing disadvantage compared to EU companies.


RE: China is clueless
By mmntech on 1/25/2010 10:46:48 AM , Rating: 5
It's propaganda. It's how every single oppressive government maintains their delicate hold on power. It's usually the United States that gets blamed as it's an easy scapegoat.

It's really unfortunate that so many western countries mollycoddle the PRC. No matter how you slice it, it's still a country ruled by tyrants.


RE: China is clueless
By eddieroolz on 1/25/2010 1:23:39 PM , Rating: 3
Tyrants that treat everyone else like crap, even though China depends on them buying their lead contaminated toys for survival.

What a bunch of hypocrites.


RE: China is clueless
By The0ne on 1/25/2010 11:18:39 AM , Rating: 2
China's talk is all BS to me. Here's my problem with some of the issues, particularly porn. So they want to ban porn on the internet to safeguard their people. Fine. Then why the fck can't you do something about the prostitution ring going on inside the country, especially for underage girls?

Seriously, on my trips to China I see cops giving out and harassing locals for parking incorrectly, disturbing the peace by being too loud mouth and other small issues. But yet, the kid prostitute standing right at the corner is done nothing about, nor the brothel down the street. Why is this you may ask, well it's because they have ties.

So if China really wants to get serious, they have to do a better job than spouting worthless accusations. US isn't perfect but I 100% sure every one of you will immediately report kids being used as slaves or prostitute. That sht just isn't right. And since I don't see China coming about any time soon due to their corrupt ties I can only wait when we go to war and kill all of them :)


RE: China is clueless
By Kibbles on 1/25/2010 11:47:36 AM , Rating: 5
1) Porn censors are stupid
ok
2) Child prostitution is bad
ok
3) Kill all Chinese
um... what?


RE: China is clueless
By The0ne on 1/25/2010 11:53:20 AM , Rating: 2
humor from my anger of China using kids :D


RE: China is clueless
By TETRONG on 1/25/10, Rating: 0
RE: China is clueless
By The0ne on 1/25/2010 1:31:19 PM , Rating: 5
Have you been to China? If you have, haven't you notice that many are clueless what the outside is besides the fashion and fad?

War was a sarcastic joke for the way China uses kids there. Ban porn but allow prostitution to reign, with kids. Yea, that's cool.

I have many Chinese friends. Most of them are very good people. Many of them, professional engineers, project managers, etc, are clueless as to what US is. Most of them think US is this Jersey like place where crime, prostitution, drugs and everything bad happens happen. When I ask why they think of this most of them answer that they were taught to view US in this fashion from their early childhood education. It is no different that what North Korea tells their citizens, that outside is bad and stay inside. Only the few whom research or have connections know that is not the case.

I mean for Christ sake, I'm asian and they still look at me different when they find out I'm a US citizen. They are different. You are fooling yourself to think otherwise. You are even more foolish to think they are the same as US.

I've gone through war, my parents and relatives have gone through war. We've been through Vietnam all the way to the current stupid wars. Have you or your family? :) War isn't pretty but you would rather have the government have it's way and us (US and other countries) doing nothing because we're too afraid of bonds? That is fear and ignorance that you speak of.

Think of all the human right issues that happened and are still happening in/from China. You are fine with this? This is a fck-up country and in some ways worst than North Korea. Their position and power allows them to get away with what other lowly countries can't. How's that for your thought.


RE: China is clueless
By Jalek on 1/25/2010 6:44:31 PM , Rating: 2
Much of that's why we didn't GIVE them the status of most favored nation in trade for decades.

It was really the only tool the US had to influence anything, that and grain embargoes, but those were never popular since it impacts the people more than the government (see also North Korea).

Now that status is perpetual, so when people decry Chinese imports and manufacturing for ruining US industries, I find it sad since it was done out of greed. Isn't that what Capitalism thrives on?


RE: China is clueless
By kaoken on 1/25/2010 6:50:41 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
s no different that what North Korea tells their citizens, that outside is bad and stay inside. Only the few whom research or have connections know that is not the case.


Oh yes, I think we are totally forgetting that America did the same to communism. USSR and China anyone?


RE: China is clueless
By Uncle on 1/25/2010 8:44:21 PM , Rating: 2
Ok you hit the nail on the head with " Most of them think US is this Jersey like place where crime, prostitution, drugs and everything bad happens happen." You forgot to mention it's the corrupt white collar criminals in politics and corporations getting away with millions that are teaching the criminals at the bottom end how its done.It flows from top to bottom, I have to agree with your statement.


RE: China is clueless
By chick0n on 1/25/2010 11:51:30 PM , Rating: 1
what a load of crap.

Kids around the corner? Well seriously I was pretty much raise there and I saw nothing like that. and I FREAKiNG WONDER WHY YOU KNOW/NOTICE IT. WHAT Have YOU been doing huh ?

and I have no idea what kind of "professional engineers,project managers, etc" you know. but every single person that I know in china, from the age of 15 to 40+ have never received or seen Stuff like what you've said from the Government, ever.

You want to talk about Human rights? Oh yes US the US is so lovely just look at what they're doing to the people in the Middle East. Oh come back to the States for a second, whats that place called again? Oh yes! Guantanamo Bay ! wow Full of Human Rights there huh ?


RE: China is clueless
By bug77 on 1/26/2010 7:35:32 AM , Rating: 2
Ooops, you just blew your cover.


RE: China is clueless
By swizeus on 1/25/10, Rating: -1
RE: China is clueless
By qualme on 1/25/2010 2:00:41 PM , Rating: 5
Do you believe every piece of propoganda crap you hear? All those oil fields were never taken from Iraq. All the oil from the wells were never taken from Iraq. All the money from those oil wells is being used by Iraq to rebuild the mess that Husain made.

Ask Japan and South Korea what happens to countries that are liberated by the US.

Its like any building project, the work makes a mess while its underway, but the final result is worth it.

Unless you still like the idea of the old Iraq terrorizing its own citizens and having most of it ruled by random warlords.


RE: China is clueless
By aegisofrime on 1/25/2010 9:54:06 PM , Rating: 3
Ask Japan and South Korea what happens to countries that are liberated by the US.

Add Germany to that list. Read Marshall Plan and Berlin Airlift.

Seriously, some of you people really need to go out and research the facts instead of believing all the crap that you read online, or hear on Fox News (I'm not American but even I have heard of Fox News' shenanigans.)


RE: China is clueless
By gamerk2 on 1/26/2010 10:09:59 AM , Rating: 2
Different circumstance. Germany, South Korea, and Japan all had democracies at one point in their history, and all had the Soviet threat breathing down their throat which helped cut down any dissent that may have remained.

I could just as easily throw in Tonga, the Phillapians, Iran, Iraq, Vietnam, Cuba, and most of South America into the same exact group of countries the US has attempted to rebuild over the past century, and point to the opposite results.

The US does fine in countries with histories of Democracy, but otherwise, all instances of US nation building have been total failures.


RE: China is clueless
By chick0n on 1/26/2010 12:00:26 AM , Rating: 1
Sure.

Story :
"Oh yeah Blow them up cuz they g0t WMD ! OMG WE ALL GONNA DIE SO BLOW THEM UP B4 it HappenzzZZZ!"
"Sir we found no WMD!"
"Well ... they HAVE IT SOMEWHERE!"
"Sir we looked everywhere, even sadddam's dog house, nothing"
"THEY HAVE IT SOMEWHERE! WE JUST KILL' THEM' ALL' Before they have a chance to use it!"
"umm Sir, what about the city? we trashed the whole place"
"Yea you're right, hmm, Guess what they have to rebuild them"
"But Sir they have got nothing left its all in pieces ..."
"Can't you see those Oil fields ! We will supply the "Technology" they need to rebuild, they just pay us ! no one else! No money? tell them to sell their oil to us !"
"buuuut Sir we blew them in the first place shouldn't we ..."
"No! One more word from your mouth you're going to the Guantanamo Bay cuz you're helping Terrorist!


RE: China is clueless
By delphinus100 on 1/26/2010 4:24:55 AM , Rating: 2
Yep. Pot...kettle.


If Jason Mick, you know your history....
By yomamafor1 on 1/25/2010 10:28:27 AM , Rating: 5
...then you would know Taiwan is NOT a renegade state, but rather a self-governed island that China has insisted it owns.




By Kosh401 on 1/25/2010 10:57:08 AM , Rating: 5
But "renegade state" sounds so much awesomer!


RE: If Jason Mick, you know your history....
By Penti on 1/25/2010 11:02:06 AM , Rating: 2
Lol, it's a sovereign state, however US has promised not to prop them up with weapons.

Relations any way are improving between China and Taiwan. It's just weapons/military that are a very touchy subject.

But people should really accept that it was US who toke up diplomatic relations and trade with China. If they didn't want relations with the dictatorships, then they wouldn't have supported Korea, Taiwan, China and so forth. And the world wouldn't have let them have the United Nations seat that taiwan occupied if they didn't accept China. This pressure about freedoms are just silly from the historic perspective, US did nothing to create democracy in South Korea or Taiwan, they had to do it themselves. As they should.


By Solandri on 1/25/2010 2:28:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This pressure about freedoms are just silly from the historic perspective, US did nothing to create democracy in South Korea or Taiwan, they had to do it themselves. As they should.

I would argue the U.S. forcing democracy on those nations would be just as bad as China forcing communism on those nations. The very definition of self-government is that the people in those countries have to decide for themselves the type of government they wish to have. The Right Thing for the U.S. to do was to stand aside and let the people there decide their own political fate. Not forcibly re-make the country in our image.


RE: If Jason Mick, you know your history....
By amanojaku on 1/25/2010 11:02:12 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
China has insisted it owns.
For good reason. The Dutch colonized Taiwan back in the 1500's. Prior to that Taiwan was largely aboriginal tribes. The Qing Dynasty took control of Taiwan from the Dutch in the 1600's. At that point Taiwan consisted of three ethnic groups: the aborigines, the Chinese and the Dutch. The Dutch and the Chinese are responsible for the creation of modern Taiwan.

The Japanese finally got their grabby hands on Taiwan in 1895 after the conclusion of the First Sino-Japanese War. When Japan got its ass kicked in WWII Japan relinquished control of Taiwan. When China experienced the Chinese Civil War the ROC leaders, loosing, fled to Taiwan. Taiwan then declared sovereignty.

There's the crux of the problem. Japan never said Taiwan is free, nor could it. It stole Taiwan from China, so it had to give it back. But China's civil war led to the problem of "who controls China?" No one wanted to take sides so they left it as a blank, which the ROC took advantage of when it fled.


RE: If Jason Mick, you know your history....
By Donovan on 1/25/2010 11:37:02 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
For good reason.
...
When China experienced the Chinese Civil War the ROC leaders, loosing, fled to Taiwan. Taiwan then declared sovereignty.
Since Taiwan is the refuge of the original pre-Communist Chinese goverment, I would say it was really the Communists who "declared sovereignity" over the portion they managed to take over. At the time of the revolution the original government already had sovereign rule over the island of Taiwan...and they didn't lose it.

If anything it is Taiwan that has a claim of ownership over the rest of China; however, as much as I dislike the new Chinese government I see no point in denying that a revolution took place and is settled. That said, it also makes no sense for China to claim ownership over land they failed to conquer...there's no "winner take all" rule in civil war.

If the South had been successful in breaking away from the US, we would not expect someone to measure the two sides today and award the smaller portion to the larger one.


RE: If Jason Mick, you know your history....
By MamiyaOtaru on 1/25/2010 12:47:13 PM , Rating: 3
How about "the people who live in Taiwan don't want to be part of China"?


By AnnihilatorX on 1/25/2010 1:08:45 PM , Rating: 2
3 options:

1) leave the state
2) don't do anything
3) start a revolution

I live in Britain and don't want to be part of it either.
I chose the 2nd option.


RE: If Jason Mick, you know your history....
By albus on 1/25/2010 1:25:27 PM , Rating: 2
No kidding! The citizens of Taiwan decide whether they want to be part of China, in true democratic fashion. Hu and his men sitting a thousand miles away should not be allowed to control the Taiwanese without their consent. Without the will of the people, democracy is not possible.


By Akrovah on 1/25/2010 4:03:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Without the will of the people, democracy is not possible.


Very true, but China is not a democracy.


RE: If Jason Mick, you know your history....
By omnicronx on 1/25/2010 3:17:57 PM , Rating: 1
You can say that about anything.. Lets say I'm a US citizen that no longer wants to be a part of the US? Can I turn my life into a family guy episode and declare my property Omnitopia?

For all intents and purposes Taiwan is part of China, that being said, why China even cares is beyond me. All that territory and they complain about an island in which its citizens do not want to be part of their country anyways. China most likely knows that pursuing Taiwan could turn into the next Tibet, and its just not worth it.


By Laereom on 1/25/2010 10:28:25 PM , Rating: 4
Lies and ignorance.

Taiwan was never even touched by the PRC. They've ruled themselves de facto since the revolution. They have their own fully functional government, tax district, democracy, and culture. They speak a different language. PRC troops and officials haven't so much set foot on Taiwan except in a diplomatic fashion.

They have a GDP per capita a little under ten times that of the PRC. They are a developed nation.

You may be familiar with a few of their iconic companies, such as:
ASUS
Biostar
Foxconn
Gigabyte
G.Skill
JMicron
Realtek
UMC
VIA

And the list really does go on.

These people have built their own nation in spite of not even being recognized internationally as a country. They've done it from nothing, with a huge, corrupt dictatorship a stone's throw away. They own themselves; the PRC has no claim over them.


By mxnerd on 1/28/2010 7:37:48 PM , Rating: 2
I'm from Taiwan and I absolutely know that Taiwan is NOT part of China.

China military never one day is on the island, never collect a single penny of tax from Taiwan's citizens.

We have our own President, our own government , our own congress, all elected by Taiwan's citizens. And we have our own military.

Just because China declare Taiwan's is part of China does not mean that's the truth. Just like if I declare I own your house does not mean your property belongs to me.


Hypocritical, Maybe?
By Vagisil on 1/25/2010 10:34:40 AM , Rating: 3
If everyone objects to the way China runs its country, It's human rights record, It's censorship and its general unwillingness to join the modern age, why do they continue to trade with them and profit from them?

Surely if governments objected so much all ties would be severed, Their internet traffic isolated (to prevent dangerous attacks and infiltrations coming from their country) and exports would be rejected.

Is this about money?




RE: Hypocritical, Maybe?
By Taft12 on 1/25/2010 10:46:04 AM , Rating: 2
Is this about money?

That IS a rhetorical question, right?


RE: Hypocritical, Maybe?
By clovell on 1/25/2010 10:47:17 AM , Rating: 2
Right - because isolationism does WONDERS bringing such countries into the modern age.


RE: Hypocritical, Maybe?
By PrinceGaz on 1/25/2010 12:06:42 PM , Rating: 2
Isolationism prevents the country from acquiring or developing modern technology that could be dangerous if used against us. A good example is how North Korea is generally considered a rogue nation but is harmless because its technology is so outdated.


RE: Hypocritical, Maybe?
By Pneumothorax on 1/25/2010 12:16:11 PM , Rating: 2
Am I the only one who PREFERS China being isolated? I wish they were still stuck in their "cultural revolution" BS. Instead of a big and poor country ruled by a tyrannical government, we end up with a big, RICH, and highly technologically advanced country ruled by a tyrannical government. Besides they're taking all our oil dammit!


RE: Hypocritical, Maybe?
By The0ne on 1/25/2010 12:41:09 PM , Rating: 2
I don't mind advancement. I blame this on US and other countries who seem to wave the flag simply because we dug ourselves in a hole from our dependence on them. When we, as a country, can say we're not going to take your sht anymore and will in fact be producing much of what we require and need then I'll be happy. Until then China is smiling and making dumbass statements with little or no reaction.

US can talk about human rights all they want but I don't see sht going on within China. Every trip I take there my hatred grows ever so stronger. The blind and ignorance imposed by the government on many of the citizens is just astounding. People can't rise up if they are clueless to begin with. Yes, not all of them all but look at those few that do rise up and voice their opinions.


RE: Hypocritical, Maybe?
By kaoken on 1/25/2010 7:29:23 PM , Rating: 2
lol everyone who buys china-made products are to blame, that includes you!!!


By WinstonSmith on 1/25/2010 10:26:55 AM , Rating: 3
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.goo...

"In order to comply with government search warrants on user data, Google created a backdoor access system into Gmail accounts. This feature is what the Chinese hackers exploited to gain access."




By Josh7289 on 1/25/2010 4:53:28 PM , Rating: 2
For my own interest, is there any developed nation out there that doesn't have such strong Internet control and surveillance powers?


Correction.
By theapparition on 1/25/2010 11:19:14 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
U.S. Senator Hillary Clinton delivered sharp remarks criticizing China's duality of cyber-lawlessness and harsh censorship of certain materials.

That would be Secretary of State, she's no longer a Senator.




By albus on 1/25/2010 1:33:42 PM , Rating: 2
The issue of human rights in China is little more than a political tool. The President had refused to meet the Dalaim Lama when His Holiness was in Washington. This was before Obama's China visit; ostensibly to please the Chinese. In bargain, he got a limited audience in China and executions of Tibetan freedom fighters.

I, for one, am glad to see the U.S. resuming arms sales to Taiwan.


Clinton a Senator?
By smegz on 1/25/2010 1:26:25 PM , Rating: 2
Did Hillary Clinton get demoted from Secretary of State back down to a Senator? Or did someone forget to proofread?




Twitter/YouTube and Iran
By Josh7289 on 1/25/2010 4:45:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Editorials accused the U.S. of exploiting video-sharing site YouTube and micro-blogging site Twitter to drive unrest in Iran.

Uh, that wasn't the US government, but the citizens of the US and the rest of the world that tried to help the Iranian citizens' cause through YouTube and Twitter.

I participated in that, too. We did it on our own.




Nice
By damianrobertjones on 1/26/2010 3:30:45 AM , Rating: 2
Not that I know much about this subject, but I feel that we need to stay out of other countries Business, especially one that could get in a big huff




By FXi on 1/27/2010 7:34:50 AM , Rating: 2
Enough said.




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