quote: trees are still being clearcut far faster than they are being replaced
quote: In any case, its not clear that trees reduce CO2 levels at all. They do while growing. But then they release it all back when they die. Its now thought that the carbon footprint of an 'old growth' forest is basically zero-- neither adding or subtracting any.
quote: the dead tree doesn't actually release any net Carbon into the atmosphere, unless new trees are unable to grow in the location
quote: If you thhink you're going to plant a tree and reduce global warming you're wrong.
quote: trees take up carbon, therefore, planting a tree will remove Carbon from the atmosphere
quote: Just because it has been at higher concentrations than it is now doesn't mean that high concentrations are good for us.
quote: I hope someone kills such people
quote: I suppose your purpose here is to discredit masher, huh?
quote: That way, we'll all follow the "party line" blindly instead of weighing the the facts presented and making our own decisions from them.
quote: You'll say next that I am blindly following masher and you are here to "set us free" so to speak.
quote: present your case and leave it for us to figure out on our own.
quote: ...should we be worrying about China's new role as the world's top emitter -- or applauding it?
quote: trees are still being clearcut far faster than they are being replaced.
quote: What do you do?
quote: trainwrecks like Kyoto.
quote: you can't put the policy before the science
quote: my point is that it takes action on a non-problem.
quote: Regarding monitors - I'm not sure - what problem was that trying to solve? My understanding is that there is no link between electromagnetic fields and health problems, and that the amount of ionizing radiation emitted is/was miniscule. What was the net health affect of the change? Clearly there was an economic cost - designs had to be changed, and the costs passed onto consumers. Were there any scientific or health studies?
quote: removing lead from paint and gasoline, but some of this other stuff leaves me scratching my head a bit.
quote: Yes. And that extra shielding, added to solve a nonexistent EMI problem, therefore made another problem worse.
quote: So you dont see a problem with mining vast amounts of metals, then turning them around and dumping them in a landfill for no good purpose at all?
quote: Does that mean we need to waste resources and fill our landfills?
quote: A simple yes or no will suffice.
quote: A simple yes or no will clear this all up.
quote: You're so right that I am trembling at the thought.
quote: Im not the one selling electronics or appliances that are no longer economically feasible to repair. I've never understood that philosophy.
quote: No, but you're the one buying them.
quote: Not when I have a choice. But in some cases corporations force the issue.
quote: Poor guy, LOL.
quote: Since when is one "forced" to buy a VCR or any other consumer product?
quote: OK, $5 each times hundreds of millions of monitors sold -> large economic cost. Benefit? Were any lives saved? I'm not aware of any studies that show any harm from low-dose non-ionizing radiation. You?
quote: Funny you bring up catalytic converters and claim they don't add much cost.
quote: Catalytic converter theft
quote: Change costs money in business, period.
quote: Well, considering how long humans have been using electricity, and no problems so far...
quote: Well Canada's apparently spent billions chasing Kyoto so far, and they have nothing (positive) to show for it.
quote: and all for nothing.
quote: So that article proves that if they had simply ignored Kyoto and made no efforts at all, the current levels would not have been even higher, is that your conclusion?
quote: Lead was removed from gasoline in order to prevent fouling of catalytic converters.
quote: Are you aware that many nations are *still* using leaded gas...and they're not seeing any of the health problems environmentalists predicted from using it.
quote: Why? Because you say so?
quote: I can tell you I've read Mesher & you sir are no Mesher!
quote: The unleaded fuel now has its octane rating adjusted by a known carcinogen
quote: This would serve to actually benefit the US in trade agreements with China.
quote: your not lending any support for either side of this argument.
quote: it is extremely difficult to generalise about the overall impact on plant growth...This is expected to rise in many regions over the coming decades and could reduce...farming of some crops may be able to shift to adjacent areas, but others may not ...Even if plant growth does rise overall, there could be a decline in biodiversity...Predicting the world's overall changes in food production in response to elevated CO2 is virtually impossible ...
quote: Its funny how enviromentalists can claim they're 100% sure a little warming will be a catastrophe.
quote: Are you really on our side, just pretending to be an environmentalist to make them look bad?
quote: You, though, seem content though to do nothing but make hundreds of posts labelling anyone who disagrees with you with something unsavory.
quote: If you're trying to discredit environmentalists, you're doing a better job than all of us put together.
quote: But it is extremely difficult to generalise about the overall impact on plant growth.
quote: The earth produces a lot of "bad" stuff in large quantities for eons and has been able to recycle it all.
quote: If we're going to get so high and mighty to assume that we should force ALL entities to stop ALL polluting
quote: Humans like to arrogantly accept blame for all of nature's problems.
quote: We're not God.
quote: quote: The earth produces a lot of "bad" stuff in large quantities for eons and has been able to recycle it all. Right. And rarely mentioned is that even today, mans CO2 emissions are still only about 4% of what nature produces each year.
quote: Difficult in that there would be mass migrations as certain parts of the planet become uninhabitable. It's difficult to predict the effect on crop yields, but climate changes would certainly cause changes to growing seasons. And climate change would bring new diseases and parasites to species that we depend upon.
quote: I just don't think that should be taken to irrational extremes.
quote: "better life"?
quote: Terrorism is surely a bigger global threat, one that can claim many more lives, than say, pollution
quote: Al Gore said the ocean would rise 70 meters if the southern polar ice cap melted.
quote: Hawking 2006: "The danger is that global warming may become self-sustaining, if it has not done so already. The melting of the Arctic and Antarctic ice caps reduces the fraction of solar energy reflected back into space, and so increases the temperature further. Climate change may kill off the Amazon and other rain forests, and so eliminate one of the main ways in which carbon dioxide is removed from the atmosphere. The rise in sea temperature may trigger the release of large quantities of methane, trapped as hydrates on the ocean floor. Both these phenomena would increase the greenhouse effect, and so further global warming..."
quote: This phenomenom is so complex that we have no idea what can and cannot happen.
quote: That's why I personally believe that this should be taken seriously and studied.
quote: The counter Global warming movement has succeeded in associating that word with the most extreme factions of the movement... and now alot of the people on this forum use the word itself as a slam on anyone who thinks there could be credibility to this globally accepted theory ...
quote: the extreme-left devil calls itself these days
quote: controlled burning is still used hundreds of times every year to fight large fires
quote: Funny that you call one article from one source a "debunking".
quote: But I guess it's more important for politicians now to be popular than right.
quote: Furthermore, studies of past climate suggest that as the planet warms, the land and oceans will start emitting more CO2 and other greenhouse gases than they absorb.
quote: If the climate warms so much that crops no longer thrive in their traditional settings, farming of some crops may be able to shift to adjacent areas, but others may not. Rich farmers and countries will be able to adapt more easily than poorer ones.
quote: Even if plant growth does rise overall, there could be a decline in biodiversity. Species that thrive on higher CO2 will drive others to extinction. In the long run, this might limit the resiliency of some ecosystems.
quote: for the years 1998-2005 global average temperature did not increase (there was actually a slight decrease, though not at a rate that differs significantly from zero)...
quote: Ten thousand years ago, while the world was coming out of the thousand-year-long "Younger Dryas" cold episode, temperatures rose as much as 6C in a decade -- 100 times faster than the past century's 0.6C warming...
quote: Scientists say that cosmic rays...play a far greater role in changing the Earth's climate than global warming experts previously thought.These new findings suggest that changes in the output of the sun caused the most recent climate change. By comparison, CO2 variations show little correlation with our planet's climate on long, medium and even short time scales...
quote: Giles Harrison, a cloud specialist at Reading University said that he had carried out research on cosmic rays and their effect on clouds, but believed the impact on climate is much smaller than Mr Svensmark claims.
quote: A reporter is always supposed to find and quote a dissenting view in any article. Always.
quote: OR... maybe he's sick of the FUD from the opposing side and is willing to accept a little hate to try to bring balance to the debate.
quote: If you're going to discuss the issue brought up then discuss it with ideas and facts not with bad mouthing the guy who wrote the article. It's like saying he's fat and therefore he MUST be clueless... Baseless personal attacks only make you look stupid.
quote: ADM, by the way, is the one who created and funded an "environmental group" that succesfully brought about the MTBE ban that made ethanol demand soar.
quote: C'mon Al, I'm waiting for answers to my three questions...
quote: I want humans to be responsible and take care of the planet. I'm an adult and I expect people to grow up and treat themselves, other people, and the planet with respect.
quote: Given all this, should we be worrying about China's new role as the world's top emitter -- or applauding it?
quote: there's "no point" in blaming China. Greenpeace director John Saueven went further, saying ultimate blame for this lay not with China, but with those Western nations who buy its cheap products
quote: You're missing the point - basically you're engaging in "kill the messenger" mentality - what is he saying that is wrong? Is the data flawed? The conclusions not logical? What's wrong with what he's saying - that he doesn't agree with IPCC?
quote: Why do tacticts matter?
quote: Man can never "know ever aspect" of anything
quote: To an environmentalist, that means we should do nothing at all, but simply crouch in fear in our caves, afraid to cook our food for fear of igniting a forest fire.
quote: Officials were quick to point fingers elsewhere. The UK's top climate change official, John Ashton -- who has spent years blaming Western nations for emissions -- says there's "no point" in blaming China. Greenpeace director John Saueven went further, saying ultimate blame for this lay not with China, but with those Western nations
quote: China is the worlds biggest polluter. And its OUR fault?
quote: Tons of Chinese companies also have factories in China, so it's not like only Western companies operate there, as you imply.
quote: You can't blame corporations since it is not their responsibility to regulate emissions. Their responsibility is to obey the regulations set forth by the government.
quote: Until governments and industry can collaborate towards emissions standards that serve both their self-interests, Western countries will continue to pump more greenhouse gases into the air, using China, India, etc. as bases of operations.
quote: In any case its moot. In a decade or two even their per-capita emissions will be the highest on the planet
quote: The estimates of CO2 emissions do not include emissions from flaring and venting of associated gas during oil and gas production and CO2 emissions from deforestation/logging/decay of remaining biomass and are calculated using default CO2 emission factors recommended by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). CO2 emissions from underground coal fires in China and elsewhere are not included either. The magnitude of these sources is very uncertain; according to recent research CO2 emissions from coal fires are estimated at 150-450 megatonne CO2 annually in China.
quote: Given all this, should we be worrying about China's new role as the world's top emitter -- or applauding it?
quote: you crack me up sometimes.
quote: Earth's axis is currently pointing at the North Star, Polaris, but it is always rotating around in a conical pattern. In about 10,000 years, it will point toward the star Vega, which will mean that winter in the Northern Hemisphere will begin in June instead of January. After 20,000 years, the axis will again point at Polaris.