Source: General Motors
quote: My present car is .17 per mile
quote: I discounted electric vehicles for quite some time until I talked to a fellow co-worker who owned one. He broke down the actual costs to me and I did a 180 very fast.What changed my mind? He told me that out of pocket for his 11,000km he had paid a grand total of $250 (cdn, btw). That's $0.023c/KM ($0.036c/mile)! For my car, I get about 10x that ($0.22c/km, $0.32c/mile)!!
quote: #1. A 2014 Cruze Eco Manual starts at 20,500.#2. When options to a Volt base level is more like 23,000 MSRP. Tough to do since they don't ever truly line up.
quote: You obviously have no idea what your talking about... but if your going to rant, you could at least compare apples to apples. For most buys the Volt will be a 5,000-10,000 premium over the same car. It allows then to go where-ever they want since it has gasoline. It will take between 5-10 years to make sense financially for most people. And for some people never would.
quote: Based on the driver-only rating, drivers of vehicles rated good were 70 percent less likely to die when involved in left-side crashes than drivers of vehicles rated poor, after controlling for driver and vehicle factors. Compared with vehicles rated poor, driver death risk was 64 percent lower for vehicles rated acceptable and 49 percent lower for vehicles rated marginal. All 3 results were statistically significant.
quote: the fault of deficit fear mongering by the GOP
quote: As the chart shows, rates have risen and fallen in concert over the past two years. But if any definable pattern is evident, it is that the AAA nations of Canada and Australia have had to pay a premium to borrow money compared with the AA+ rated United States. It is a sign that markets have never come around to the S&P view that the United states is in fact less creditworthy than Canada and Australia.
quote: Really? You think the US government debt is akin to me paying my credit card? Are you seriously that delusional?
quote: You directly blamed the GOP and GOP alone for our credit reduction. That's a lie, admit it.
quote: I guess when all the revenue of the Federal Government isn't even enough to pay the interest on our debt
quote: Are you that clueless? The downgrade was entirely due to the GOP threatening to bankrupt the gov't by refusing to raise the debt ceiling.
quote: And that it's all the GOP's fault they didn't agree to the suicidal and moronic logic of that. Just...WTF!?
quote: I had a friend that retired a year ago, is liberal, and would not agree at all with Mint. I think liberals like Mint are some new kind of nutjob liberal that, like other nutjobs, seems to come out of the woodwork whenever the economy goes to crap. What you say Mint makes not a lick of sense and this is coming from a born and raised liberal (who no longer belongs to any group BTW).
quote: Everyone wants the free market to create jobs and make people self sufficient. The reality, however, is that it will only do so with more consumption.
quote: That's indisputable. You cannot get more hiring unless there is demand for more goods/services to be produced./quote>See above. quote: So let's take your suggestion of cutting entitlements to balance the budget. Since you don't want to raise the debt ceiling at all, we can't cut gov't revenue. Now all those people receiving entitlements stop buying stuff with them. For service cuts, they pay for it themselves now by buying less stuff. Any entitlement dollar spent on a good requires at least $3 of economic activity. Follow the math:Taxes are about 30% of peoples' income when you combine income tax with sales tax.$3 * 30% = $0.90Someone had to earn $3, either a business or working person, so that a lazy sack of sh1t on welfare could spend 90 cents of someone's money.If instead of giving money to people, the money was given to businesses in the form of loans or tax deductions, businesses would be able to form and expand, offering better paying jobs to a wider range of people.Removing laws like obamacare would further improve this process.Your way has been in practice since the 60s and it doesn't work. The people collect these entitlements and start depending on them. They do not move up in society; they stay at or near where they started, often falling down further. quote: So tell me, how does this strategy lead to people living their lives to the fullest? No, you tell me how people on the welfare treadmill are living at all. They're merely alive.Increased consumer spending is the sign of a healthy economy; it's not a pillar of the economy. You don't seem to get it because you're just not that smart, which is why you and others like you are swayed by emotional pleas rather than logical strategies. quote: There was a time that I'd agree with you. From WW2 onwards, there would always be enough consumption to employ everyone that wanted to work, so minimal entitlements worked. When that waned in the early 80's, we started using private debt as a crutch to boost consumption. No excess reserves, so $100 saved is $90 lent (and more after the money multiplier). Private debt kept rising to $40T, fueling housing construction, car purchases, etc. The problems started happening in the 60s, with the "sexual revolution" that earmarked the demise of the nuclear family. This played out well into the 70s and didn't stop until Reagan was elected and managed to fix some of it.You don't seem to understand that it was our educational system, primarily dominated by liberals or other left-wing nutsacks, who started indoctrinating people with the notion that "blue collar" = failure and "white collar" = success. More people started attending college hoping to land a white collar job, just for prestige and not necessarily because it paid a lot more.Fast forward to today and you have a lot of young people who feel that most jobs typically taken by teens and young adults aren't worth their time. They want to start out as corporate executives with six-figure incomes. Won't happen.Meanwhile, the maligned blue collar workers still earn healthy $80-$120K per year incomes doing work that so many other Americans have decided they are too elite for.So your commentary about America being a lot different now than it was immediately following WW2 is not so accurate; the demand for skilled labor is VERY high right now...but your degree in liberal arts and communications isn't going to help you. Hell, it doesn't even help you make compelling arguments on the internet...and you have $80K in debt to pay back. Math fail, as usual. quote: Democratically voted spending/redistribution is the last avenue of new consumption left. Far from it. People got rich by their own merits and America is still full of opportunities for people that are willing to do the work it takes. Following the tired old blueprint of spending another 4 years of your life and $50-$100K in college when you have no real-world experience in anything is just being stupid.
quote: So let's take your suggestion of cutting entitlements to balance the budget. Since you don't want to raise the debt ceiling at all, we can't cut gov't revenue. Now all those people receiving entitlements stop buying stuff with them. For service cuts, they pay for it themselves now by buying less stuff.
quote: So tell me, how does this strategy lead to people living their lives to the fullest?
quote: There was a time that I'd agree with you. From WW2 onwards, there would always be enough consumption to employ everyone that wanted to work, so minimal entitlements worked. When that waned in the early 80's, we started using private debt as a crutch to boost consumption. No excess reserves, so $100 saved is $90 lent (and more after the money multiplier). Private debt kept rising to $40T, fueling housing construction, car purchases, etc.
quote: Democratically voted spending/redistribution is the last avenue of new consumption left.
quote: No, I am not a normal liberal. I'm pro-nuclear, and generally anti wind and solar. I think AGW is happening, but that it's not worth combating.
quote: Regarding the risk of default, what I said makes perfect sense. We have a fiat currency that we control, and despite the high deficit, we have low interest rates and low core inflation. That means nobody feels the slightest danger of default. For more evidence, see my post above about credit default swaps.
quote: You like to talk a lot but don't make any effort to genuinely understand what you are saying...
quote: FYI the very same computer "climate models" that weather stations use to forecast the weather for a week, with a horrendous track record, were expanded to longer time frames.
quote: They struggle to predict TOMORROW'S weather; they have no business telling us what thy think the weather is going to be 50, 100 or 200 years from now.
quote: Credit Default Swaps were basically insurance against risky investments like mortgage notes
quote: It's artificial because people are putting money into stocks since there are no returns to be made in bonds
quote: The bottom line here is that printing money to pay bills produces nothing of value.
quote: LOL no they weren't. Weather and climate prediction have little in common. But more importantly, why are you putting words into my mouth?
quote: How did you possibly interpret my downplaying of AGW as acceptance of a 'doomsday'? I quite clearly said I do NOT see the value in preventing it.
quote: You don't even understand the difference between weather and climate, yet you have the audacity to tell me that I don't understand anything? Talk about pot calling the kettle black.
quote: Credit default swaps don't just exist for mortgage notes, and you'd realize that if you were paying attention.
quote: The spread on a CDS is a direct measure of default risk as seen by the free market. When did the risk shoot up?
quote: Do you understand anything in economics? Interest rates are low precisely because there is so much demand for them, despite the gargantuan supply.
quote: A preference for stocks over bonds would make bond rates go up, not down. The reality is that the wealthy (including foreign gov'ts) are so desperate for safe investments that they're willing to buy trillions in bonds with negative real interest rates, and put a further $10T in bank deposits at near zero rates.
quote: Yet some idiots like Mint and his Liberal sources are actually saying that in the United States's case, if it were to remove a curb on debt growth, in their view this would increase creditworthiness!!!!And that it's all the GOP's fault they didn't agree to the suicidal and moronic logic of that. Just...WTF!?
quote: If people thought electric cars were a good idea they would show that by buying them.
quote: The majority of people can't make that decision, because they can't afford new cars:http://www.edmunds.com/industry-center/commentary/...They're left with the cars that the generally higher income folk leave behind for them on the used car market.
quote: Go look at polls. CAFE is highly supported by the public:
quote: They're not selling because unlike you, most people are just not that dumb...and certainly after all those magical unicorn-esque benefits that you keep ranting about, EVs should be selling themselves...and yet...they don't.
quote: Saying the "majority of people can't afford new cars" is a complete and total fabrication.
quote: Just when you're trying to claim people can't "afford" new cars, so that's why EV's aren't selling.
quote: Now you're citing an OpEd on Edmunds as "evidence"
quote: They're not selling because unlike you, most people are just not that dumb
quote: Dude, don't bother posting if all you're going to do is post links to sh1t that is irrelevant.
quote: The oped wasn't the evidence. The data from Polk was: 34% of new cars are bought by people earning over $100k, and 39% by people earning between $50k and $100k.~75% of people 15+ yrs old earn less than $50k, but they only buy 27% of new cars.
quote: You wish they weren't selling. It's growing faster than hybrids did in their early years and this year they've doubled 2012's first half sales.
quote: Irrelevant? So you're saying that a gov't should NOT do what its populace overwhelmingly asks it to? Cars pollute the air everyone breathes and are near essential to modern life. The people have every right to demand regulations ranging from emissions to safety to dimensions to driving laws.
quote: Shall we just abolish democracy and make you the dictator of the US?
quote: The downgrade was entirely due to the GOP threatening to bankrupt the gov't by refusing to raise the debt ceiling.
quote: Why can't people just understand subsidies, grants and low interest loans are a government's way to encouraging the private industry to head towards a direction.
quote: These subsidies will be a drop in the bucket compared to the impact EVs will have on the Trade Balance.
quote: These subsidies will disappear just like the hybrid subsidies. People cried about those things back then too.
quote: The short range of the battery, which drops even more at higher travel speeds means the only people who can get the most out of an electric vehicle don't drive all that much, which means that their costs per mile are much lower...
quote: It is a solution that addresses a tiny percentage of gasoline consumption by motor vehicles
quote: If you focus on just cars being used for short commutes most of which are at lower speeds
quote: At higher speeds ALL cars get lower economy. There's nothing special about EVs there, and in fact the cost equation further benefits EVs that way. 50+ miles a day is not just "short trips". Heavy commuters can put 15k+ miles a year on an EV.
quote: They get people from point A to point B. The more that people buy them now, the more used EVs will be available 5-10 years from now, helping middle and lower class families save $100+ per month on fuel for the life of the car. When the batteries wear down they can be refurbished with far cheaper future cells.
quote: Electric motors last forever (we know that from the industrial sector), so we could be talking about a 25 year lifetime after a battery refurb, and who knows how much gas will cost then.
quote: A purely free market won't get you long term optimization, because most consumers only purchase with shorter time frames in mind
quote: I never mentioned CO2. At the very least, though, urban pollution gets reduced, and it has a tangible effect on public health.
quote: Don't be so myopic in thinking EVs are only for smaller cars, or that the latter don't matter. The Model S is already taking market share from the performance-luxury segment where cars get 15-20 MPG, and the Model X will do the same.
quote: Current law won't ever get 10% of auto sales being subsidized, but even if a hypothetical future law extends $5k subsidies, look above. It's an easy societal win down the road.
quote: In a gasoline car, you'll use a bit more fuel if you have a heavy foot but the car will be no worse for wear and average MPG will still be quite high.
quote: Oh look, the idiot liberal knows what middle class families need. They need to pay $35K for a $15K car so they can save $100/mo in gas. THAT'S SO SMART!
quote: You are probably a fagg0t because you are a liberal
quote: Eat at Mint's - where unsubstantiated comments are always on the house.
quote: OH WEALLY? Duh model S is taking market share from Audi, BMW or Lexus?
quote: Keep in mind also that the refund does not go to the car companies, it goes to the consumers. This means that unlike other subsidies given to solar and other 'green' tech, the price of the car really is the price of the car. When the subsidy goes away we will not see the price of EVs jump through the roof; they will remain on the same track that they have been.
quote: The tax credit is obscene because it's a subsidy for what is essentially an expensive toy that makes some people with the money to spend on them feel good about themselves. I like tech toys as much if not more than the next guy, and I think electric vehicles are a great idea, but having taxpayers foot $7500 which is over 20% of the cost of the vehicle is absolutely obscene. And that is far from the only subsidy.
quote: EVs would make sense if the production costs weren't so high. The meet a lot of ideological goals, and they allow for much greater energy efficiency since power plants are far more efficient.
quote: So you see the point in switching to CNG for trucks and trains for lower energy cost (which I agree with), but not gasoline to electric with even lower cost per mile for the nearly 3 trillion vehicle miles traveled in light duty vehicles? You don't see the point in eliminating a huge chunk of maintenance costs?
quote: Even when natural gas is used to create the electricity going into an EV, you can get 60% efficiency at a CCGT plant but only 30% from a bifuel vehicle.
quote: Oil imports are over half of the trade deficit and we're in a demand limited economy, so of course it's good to get off foreign oil.
quote: By your logic we should let other countries make all our goods and not care because hey, it's a global market.
quote: EVs make sense for so many reasons, half of which I haven't even mentioned.
quote: There is a misconception among liberals and ignorant folks that a Saudi prince has his hand on a dial that controls the price of oil based on how much money he wants. That's not how it works.
quote: I am no friend of eco-nazis, but even I recognize the usefulness of electric cars in the market place. My route to work and back every day costs me ~$6 per day on gas (sometimes as low as $4, sometimes as high at $8). In most electric cars that I have run the numbers on the cost is closer to $0.75 in electricity for the same route. That is nothing short of an astounding decrease in transportation cost. $1560 per year in a gas car vs $200 per year in an electric car.