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Print 53 comment(s) - last by rburnham.. on Feb 16 at 11:38 AM
Another 64-bit holdout succumbs

The ascendancy of 64-bit software usage is hard to dispute. The majority of Microsoft's Windows 7 shipments will be in 64-bit, and Sun Microsystems has recently made 64-bit versions of its Java plug-in available to Windows users.

One notable holdout has been ZoneAlarm, a popular free firewall program. ZoneAlarm was acquired by Check Point Software in 2004, which has grown the product line to include anti-spyware, anti-phishing and anti-virus components in its Internet Security Suite. It has also shipped ZoneAlarm ForceField, a unique virtualized browser program that lets you use disposable profiles to greatly increase security. 

Both the ISS and ZoneAlarm Antivirus use an antiviral engine licensed from Kaspersky Labs, which has higher detection rates than market leaders McAfee and Symantec. Kaspersky Labs releases antivirus database updates hourly, with about 600 updates released each month. ZoneAlarm releases its own anti-spyware updates hourly as well.

ZoneAlarm had a 64-bit beta program for Windows XP in 2006, but was badly burned by the experience. Consumer demand was low, and the software did not perform up to expectations.

With over 25 percent of North American Windows Vista shipments using the 64-bit edition, ZoneAlarm has been at a disadvantage. None of its software is compatible with Vista 64-bit, leaving many loyal ZoneAlarm users that bought new computers unable to use any version of ZoneAlarm. Most had to switch to competing products.

Check Point hopes to address this with ZoneAlarm Extreme, which combines all of its software products together in one package. By combining antivirus, anti-spyware, anti-phishing, firewall, and virtualization software together, Check Point is preparing a comprehensive integrated product that protects against multiple vectors of attack.

ZoneAlarm Extreme has been in beta for the last three months, but is now at the release candidate stage. The current launch target is February 24th, with a 64-bit version available at launch for use with Windows Vista.

Check Point also plans to release 64-bit versions of all its software products within several weeks after the launch of ZoneAlarm Extreme.

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It's inevitable
By dani31 on 2/13/2009 8:30:59 AM , Rating: 5
All devs should go for 64 bit and multicore support, and do it soon (helloooooo adobe).




RE: It's inevitable
By FaceMaster on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: It's inevitable
By Proxes on 2/13/2009 10:16:20 AM , Rating: 2
How is it a gimmick? We have been pushing the 32Bit memory limits for years.


RE: It's inevitable
By consumerwhore on 2/13/2009 1:10:01 PM , Rating: 2
AFAIK, the OSes have, the applications, not so much...


RE: It's inevitable
By Proxes on 2/13/2009 1:54:49 PM , Rating: 2
There are plenty of applications that could take advantage of not being limited to 2 gigs of RAM. There are even games that have trouble with the 2 gig barrier.


RE: It's inevitable
By consumerwhore on 2/13/2009 2:09:34 PM , Rating: 2
OK, but we're talking about an anti-virus app here. Not exactly a RAM hog... Heck, not even Kaspersky, whose engine they license, ships 64-bit apps so why should they?


RE: It's inevitable
By Jansen (blog) on 2/13/2009 2:41:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
None of its software is compatible with Vista 64-bit


RE: It's inevitable
By consumerwhore on 2/13/2009 4:37:41 PM , Rating: 2
Let's not confuse "being compatible with a 64-bit OS" and "needing to be compiled in 64-bit".


RE: It's inevitable
By Pryde on 2/13/2009 8:28:39 PM , Rating: 2
Because of how the Security system works in Vista you cannot run a 32bit firewall on 64bit, 64bit also features many changes that are not found on the 32bit version. For any XP firewall/antivrius they have had to make huge changes to go to 64bit vista.


RE: It's inevitable
By rburnham on 2/16/2009 11:38:18 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly! We just want the program to work on something like Vista x64.


RE: It's inevitable
By FaceMaster on 2/13/09, Rating: -1
RE: It's inevitable
By Proxes on 2/13/2009 1:50:57 PM , Rating: 4
Just because you can get buy with 1 gig for porn and email doesn't mean the reset of the world is the same.


RE: It's inevitable
By lotharamious on 2/13/2009 1:54:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Name one app that requires more than a GB of RAM to work properly. Apart from Vista, as we all know it's bloated beyond belief. Just like your Mum.

Photoshop, UGNX, AutoCAD, anyone? 64-bit is a necessity if you're working with larger files. Just last week I got an "out of memory error" with the 32-bit version of UGNX opening a car model.


RE: It's inevitable
By Ammohunt on 2/13/2009 2:12:43 PM , Rating: 3
64-bit Freecell


RE: It's inevitable
By Jimbo1234 on 2/13/2009 2:23:57 PM , Rating: 2
Pro/E, ANSYS, Algor, Vegas, Inventor, Solidworks, etc., etc. Do you need more? I can list of plenty more.


RE: It's inevitable
By Jimbo1234 on 2/13/2009 2:31:38 PM , Rating: 2
And why did I get rated down for this?


RE: It's inevitable
By PrinceGaz on 2/13/2009 3:30:17 PM , Rating: 2
Replying to a heavily downrated post results in your reply being automatically downrated a bit also.


RE: It's inevitable
By wordsworm on 2/13/2009 3:33:17 PM , Rating: 1
It's because you replied to the troll known as facemaster. Whenever someone's got a -1 rating and you reply to it, you start at 1 instead of 2. Think of it as being spanked for feeding the troll. The other folks who already did, likely did it before he got a -1.


RE: It's inevitable
By FaceMaster on 2/14/2009 12:13:17 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
And why did I get rated down for this?


Because nobody's ever heard of any of those programmes you listed.


RE: It's inevitable
By CZroe on 2/13/2009 4:01:02 PM , Rating: 2
Almost every serious game since Battlefield 2 has either clearly benefitted from 2GB or NEEDED it. In Vista 32bit with SLI, don't expect to play anything serious with all the settings turned up (the whole point of SLI) without hitting the addressing limit and crashing the app. You clearly aren't an enthusiast or gamer if you have been out of the loop for that long.


RE: It's inevitable
By CZroe on 2/13/2009 4:50:28 PM , Rating: 1
Anyone feel like upvoting me for actually giving mainstream specifics rather than simply downvoting a confused and helpless commenter? ;)


RE: It's inevitable
By mindless1 on 2/13/2009 10:27:56 PM , Rating: 1
Why? It's arbitrarily seeking to cause a scenario that needs more memory. Most games are playable with 1GB of memory on XP. They may not play as well, may take longer to reload levels, but it is possible. Not everyone dumps much of their disposible income into a PC for gaming, but may still play a game every now and then on the PC.

If what you mean is, can you play a brand new game that's more demanding than the average game on an old PC, your video card is already a limit long before >=1GB memory is.


RE: It's inevitable
By mindless1 on 2/13/2009 10:24:32 PM , Rating: 2
Pretty big leap, thinking an enthusiast or gamer and linking that to Vista/32 and SLI.

MOST enthusiasts and gamers don't use either. Most don't have over 2GB of memory either. Why do some people get the impression otherwise? Because people tend to talk about their new toys more than their old ones.


RE: It's inevitable
By FaceMaster on 2/14/2009 9:28:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Almost every serious game since Battlefield 2 has either clearly benefitted from 2GB or NEEDED it.


I think you'll find that 32 bit is totally capable of 2 GB.


RE: It's inevitable
By nilepez on 2/14/2009 8:38:57 AM , Rating: 2
Very few were pushing the 32bit boundary until the last year or so when the price of 2GB DDR2 sticks sunk to previously unimaginable lows.

Even today, most new machines probably don't ship with more than 4GB of ram. Sure they may not address it all, but when you account for the increased memory usage of 64bit, it's not much of a gain.

However, as an enthusiast, I see that DDR2 memory prices are dirt cheap and I can buy 8 GB for less than $100.00, so even though i never use that much (might hit 5GB if I've got 1 or 2 VMs open), I think it's worth getting.

For the average user, they're at least a couple of years away from needing 4GB of ram and probably 4 years off from needing 8GB.

But none of that matters, because the reason that they're releasing a 64bit version of Zone Alarm, is because PCs with a 64bit version of Vista are shipping in mainstream PCs. That wasn't the case before, and there's no point in making software that very few people can use and even fewer had the desire to use.

However, I want to be clear that I'm not making any comment about the Athlon 64. I bought one, it was a great CPU and the fact that I didn't use the 64bit portion is irrelevant. If I'd had the memory, I would have tried XP x64. I didn't, so I didn't.


RE: It's inevitable
By lagitup on 2/15/2009 5:56:59 PM , Rating: 3
RE: It's inevitable
By InfantryRocks on 2/13/09, Rating: 0
RE: It's inevitable
By mindless1 on 2/13/2009 10:28:50 PM , Rating: 2
Pretty much. Next it'll be 128bit.


RE: It's inevitable
By ZachDontScare on 2/13/2009 1:20:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
All devs should go for 64 bit and multicore support, and do it soon (helloooooo adobe).


I disagree. Not every app needs the extra ram or power available in a 64bit system. In fact, I'd say most dont. Your average email or newsreader program, for example, wont even approach the 32bit limits. So for a lot of developers, there's just no pressing need to move to 64bit right away. 64bit apps dont run under Win32, so if a company moves too early they end up with many customers who cant run their software, or they end up having to maintain multiple builds of their app. Either way thats costly.

If you're Adobe, or if you make video editing software, or database servers, sure, go 64bit. But otherwise there's no urgency unless there's some 32bit limit you're pushing up against.


RE: It's inevitable
By Pryde on 2/13/2009 8:36:30 PM , Rating: 2
32bit still works on 64bit system. Yes if the program doesn't need 64bit then hell yeah run it in 32bit for all I care. But to run 64bit apps you need a 64bit OS, does it hurt to have a 64bit OS and never use a 64bit app ... hell no.

Now ZA has to be a 64bit app because of the changes in 64bit vista, this doesn't mean they are going to immediately stop 32bit support, they are just going to finally support vista/win7 64bit.

I for one loved ZA Internet Security Suite, everything you needed in 1 install and have missed it greatly in vista 64bit. But I will probably wait until win7 when I do a reinstall to buy it.


RE: It's inevitable
By mindless1 on 2/13/2009 10:32:29 PM , Rating: 2
While I can see and appreciate developers not wanting to go back and make 64 bit versions of legacy apps, it would only make sense to support 32 and 64 bit Windows with any future versions not already past the early stages. What they shouldn't do is think only 64bit versions since as noted, lots of computing devices have no need to be 64 bit, even more in the future where we'll see more integration into devices besides PCs, servers, and laptops.


RE: It's inevitable
By Barfo on 2/13/2009 4:43:55 PM , Rating: 1
yes


Surprising...
By Zshazz on 2/13/2009 9:28:21 AM , Rating: 5
What? Did these companies expect 64-bit to just "go away"?

I'm quite annoyed at how many companies delayed the switch this long. Oh well, they lost customers, so I guess they've got their just desserts.

I don't even understand the issue either. As long as you don't have sloppy code practices (and, you shouldn't with these kinds of very large pieces of software), you should be able to transition to 64-bit extremely quickly. Even if you did make the mistake of having sloppy code, the transition to 64-bit is definitely a priority because, like I jested with earlier, 64-bit won't "go away"... and higher profile customers (e.g. the computer enthusiasts who recommend or blast products) are the ones who transition first.

Windows Vista is a good example of why you need to impress early... it's a great OS, but everyone "hates" it now because the enthusiasts blasted it early on. Now you have grandmothers who've never touched a computer saying "sonny, don't you be putting that vista on my new computer!"




RE: Surprising...
By mmntech on 2/13/2009 1:10:22 PM , Rating: 2
The trouble has to do with businesses, many of whom still run 32-bit work stations. This is why the adoption rate for x64 has been so slow. When we transitioned from 16-bit to 32-bit, the increased amount of memory was an obvious advantage, as everyday business software could benefit from more than 64kb of RAM. Most business applications don't require more than 1gb of RAM at this point. Microsoft knows this, which is why Windows 7 is still going to have a 32-bit versions.

The reason there aren't more 64-bit applications is because there just isn't the demand for them. Since 64-bit Windows can run 32-bit applications just fine, it's just not economically viable for developers to make two sets of software when they don't need to. 64-bit still does appeal mostly to enthusiasts, gamers, and power users (ie CAD). Most everyday users aren't going to notice any real benefit. I figure 64-bit won't become mainstream until at least 2010 or later.


RE: Surprising...
By Jimbo1234 on 2/13/2009 2:31:00 PM , Rating: 2
Ummm, businesses are the ones who run CAD applications, not power users.

We've been up against the memory limit since three or four years ago. Last year when we upgraded our workstations, we didn't even consider anything 32-bit.


RE: Surprising...
By Fritzr on 2/15/2009 3:10:02 AM , Rating: 2
CAD is normally run on Workstaion class computers. Business desktops are much more common and do not have a need to go to 64bit yet.

True 64bit OS and desktop PCs have drastically lowered prices since the VAXstation PC. This workstation class single user machine was a DEC MicroVAX with an IO bus design preventing it from functioning effectively as a 50+ user minicomputer. Same CPU board with a minicomputer backplane was a popular multiuser mini-mainframe. This workstation came out in the late 80s and one of the selling points was Autodesk's AutoCAD.


Er... Why?
By consumerwhore on 2/13/2009 1:21:48 PM , Rating: 2
I realize that all the comments saying "finally" and "it's a good thing" have been modded all the way up to 5, but... why? Who cares that this piece of software gets linked against 64-bit binaries?

95% of the apps installed on my XP64 machine are 32-bit and I fail to see how I'm somehow missing out on something. 100% of games out there (apart from FarCry64) are 32-bit and I don't see people marching in the streets...

What's up with all the "give 64-bit or give us death" so suddenly?

I understand you may want the plug-ins for IE64, OK. And, yes, Photoshop is a resource intensive app, OK. And then, what else...??




RE: Er... Why?
By Bluestealth on 2/13/2009 2:24:04 PM , Rating: 2
64-bit flash player for my laptop would be nice, its actually faster to watch flash video in my Linux virtual machine using the beta 64-bit flash plugin then it is to run it natively on Vista using a 32-bit browser. *helps heap wood for the fire to burn Adobe.

AFAIK this should not be happening anyways, and I don't know if WoW or Adobe is at fault, but it sucks.


RE: Er... Why?
By Jansen (blog) on 2/13/2009 2:43:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
None of its software is compatible with Vista 64-bit


RE: Er... Why?
By Nyans on 2/13/2009 3:49:11 PM , Rating: 2
I noticed one time on a mates PC that HalfLife 2 runs in "64-Bit Enhanced Mode" when it detects both 64-bit capable CPU and OS.

I have no idea what improvements this makes to the game and I've never heard anyone really talk about it. I'm not about to play through it a 3rd time to find out either...

...but yeah, it's 64-bit.


RE: Er... Why?
By Chris Simmo on 2/13/2009 10:25:22 PM , Rating: 2
People have been waiting for a long time. There comes a point when you just have to start screaming and rolling around on the floor to get what you want, even if you don't need it. but for software that can use the capabilities it is worth it.
When windows 7 comes out, all we will be installing is 64bit, unless the customer knows they have old software that won't run on it.

As a side note, how many people who read daily tech are going to be representatives of the main stream?


Question
By nirolf on 2/13/2009 9:11:41 AM , Rating: 5
Hi, I'm from Adobe. What does "64-bit" mean?




RE: Question
By m4elstrom on 2/13/2009 11:35:25 AM , Rating: 2
It means you should get off your fat ass and develop something new already, instead of buying other companies code and revamping every now and then your 100+ suites, and charging an eye and an arm for said software suites.

lol.


RE: Question
By DustySm on 2/13/2009 5:23:52 PM , Rating: 2
Hi,

I'm from nuance "and as you know, 64-bit operating systems represent a relatively small percentage of the operating system market." reference here http://www.nuance.com/naturallyspeaking/support/fa...

So Dragon Naturally speaking 10 won't install on any 64bit version of windows.

So how will the majority of customers on Win7 going to run DNS..


Kaspersky?
By Screwballl on 2/14/2009 9:36:16 AM , Rating: 2
Wait what?

http://www.dailytech.com/Kaspersky+Customer+Databa...

Personally I do not trust my systems with anything relating to ZoneAlarm, Kaspersky or any of their related software.

- Avira is rated best detection for Proactive/retroactive and on-demand, versus all other paid and free AV software. This is the ONLY anti-virus I trust with any Windows OS I have.

- Comodo is rated the best software firewall according to multiple sources, one of them being GRC. This is used with any and all Windows OS I have or use.

- Spyware Blaster prevents a large majority of spyware from even displaying (black list, used with all Windows OS I use) and

- Spyware Terminator shows popups asking if you want to allow the spyware or not (only used with XP, not needed with Vista and newer).




RE: Kaspersky?
By Jansen (blog) on 2/14/2009 2:41:11 PM , Rating: 2
I call BS. Backup your claims.

I use Kaspersky through ZAISS, and have for the last two years.

AV Comparatives in November lists Kaspersky and Avira as tied for top antivirus program, at 71%

http://www.anti-malware-test.com/?q=taxonomy/term/...
Anti-Malware lab test in November last year

Dr.Web Anti-Virus 4.44 (100%)
Kaspersky Anti-Virus 2009 (80%)<-------------------------Good
Avast! Professional Edition 4.8 (80%)
Agnitum Outpost Antivirus Pro 6.5 (53%)
Norton AntiVirus 2009 (53%)
Panda Antivirus 2009 (40%)
BitDefender Antivirus 2009 (33%)
Trend Micro Antivirus plus Antispyware 2008 (33%)
McAfee VirusScan 2008 (33%)
F-Secure Anti-Virus 2009 (33%)
AVG Anti-Virus & Anti-Spyware 8.0 (33%)
Avira AntiVir PE Premium 8.1 (20%)<----------------------Poor
Sophos Anti-Virus 7.3 (33%)
Eset NOD32 Antivirus 3.0 (0%)
VBA32 Antivirus 3.12 (0%)


About time!
By BPB on 2/13/2009 7:44:38 AM , Rating: 3
I moved on from their software for this reason. My friend on the other hand has not moved to 64 bit Windows for this reason. He, of course, is the fool.




Meh
By grenableu on 2/13/2009 9:57:01 AM , Rating: 3
This reads like a press release.




64 bit
By Dreifort on 2/13/2009 8:48:54 AM , Rating: 2
They have a 64-bit beta release out there to DL.

http://download.zonelabs.com/bin/free/beta/zabeta....




ADOBE
By wwwebsurfer on 2/13/2009 6:43:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
helloooooo adobe


As a person who works on adobe software 8 hours a day FREAKING CATCH UP WITH THE REAL WORLD. If after effects wasn't so amazing I'd switch everything over to NewTek SpeedEdit tomorrow afternoon. They can't background render on processor (only graphics card), no full multicore support (except in specific situations), can't be ran natively in 64-bit or Linux. Thus, I refuse to upgrade until they go 64-bit native, till then I'm CS3 all the way.




By HeavyTraffic on 2/13/2009 7:55:50 PM , Rating: 2
...is most likely because they have a kernel mode component, such as a driver. 32-bit components cannot run in kernel mode.




Extreme
By jtesoro on 2/14/2009 10:29:52 AM , Rating: 2
Ugh. Hate the name. I don't think I'll ever be able to get a product with Extreme on it's name. Reeks of being a marketing gimmick for an overpriced product.




Zone Alarm ? No, thanks !
By kalak on 2/16/2009 11:04:37 AM , Rating: 2
Best AV = AVAST
Best Firewall = COMODO

And ZA do not work with Torrents very well.

quote:
Vista + Zone Alarm: classic source of uT freezing.


http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archi...

http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=43608

http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?pid=392572




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