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The TiVo HD sitting on my entertainment rack, ignore the wiring job.  (Source: DailyTech, Anh T. Huynh)
An overall positive experience with Comcast and CableCARD

Last week I took a dive and bought a new TiVo HD to accompany my new TV. Now, before everyone starts asking why I opted for a TiVo HD instead of renting a digital video record, or DVR, from my cable company, I might as well explain why. After owning a Sony 30” HDTV CRT television for two years, I was never bothered by how programming looked coming out of the Motorola DCT-6400 that Comcast uses. I owned a CRT TV so analog programming looked great on it.

After I purchased a new Toshiba 42HL167 LCD TV, the shortcomings of the DCT-6400 become quite prominent. SD programming, even with Comcast’s all digital network in Bellingham, WA, looked horrendous. The Motorola DCT-6400 just did not have that great of a picture, especially when compared to integrated ATSC/ClearQAM tuners integrated into the TV and the Samsung DTB-H260F set top box I used on the CRT TV.

In addition to the image quality, I simply didn’t like the TV Guide user interface Comcast rolled out in Washington State. The user interface was ugly, clunky and did not do it for me. I also didn’t have a Comcast DVR and just the standard Motorola DCT-6400. Comcast wanted to charge an extra $15 to upgrade my cable plan and get a DVR. I am quite content with my basic digital cable-programming package, since I only watch local channels, Cartoon Network, Comedy Central and Discovery HD.

So after reading a couple threads on TiVo Community and reading CableCARD horror stories from friends, I took the dive and bought a TiVo HD, knowing the problems I could possibly face. The stories I read online where people had to schedule appointments for an installer to come out or the hoops they had to jump through to get CableCARDs, I did not have a single problem with Comcast.

I walked into the Comcast offices expecting to schedule an appointment to have an installer come out and expecting hassles, but as always, the people at the Bellingham, WA Comcast offices have always been nice, courteous and very helpful, despite all the bad things people have said about Comcast. I have had nothing but great experiences with them, albeit I live in a smaller city.

It did not take much to obtain two CableCARD’s. I simply walked in, asked for two, they took two out of the back, and I was on my way. Pricing is cheap too – the first CableCARD is free while the second one is $1.75. After I got home and plugged in the TiVo HD and the CableCARD’s, it was activation time. I spent about an hour and a half on the phone with Comcast to get the CableCARD’s activated. The first card I had, they were unable to activate and I had to exchange it for another one the next day. I was able to get one card activated, painlessly without any headaches.

The only issues were the long wait times it took for them to get the CableCARDs into the system and send out an activation signal. It did not bother me that much because I just put them on speaker phone. When I went to exchange the non-working CableCARD, it was as easy as obtaining them. It took them around 30 minutes to activate and I was done.

No hassles, no headaches. After everything was activated and working, I popped open the TiVo and shoved a 500GB hard drive in there. I could not be any happier with it. I can receive my Discovery HD programming and record it, the image quality is much better with SD programming. TiVo suggestions are also quite nice, although it keeps recording random shows I never watch such as Hannah Montana and random Disney Channel programming.

Not all stories with CableCARDs are as simple as mine. My friend bought a TiVo HD the next day and had plenty of fun trying to get two CableCARDs for it. Apparently, some providers, in this case Click-Network in Tacoma, WA, do not comprehend the concept of two CableCARDs going into a single box and refused to issue two CableCARDs for his TiVo HD. After calling his friends that worked for the company, he was able to get two CableCARDs.

After my initial experience with CableCARD, I do not see what the problems are about. However, my experiences are only with Comcast and other providers may have different policies, as shown by my friend. I don’t expect everyone to have the same experience because it seems like a your mileage may vary issue, but those afraid of CableCARDs shouldn’t be, it isn’t as bad as the Internet makes it out to be.


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How do you blame the cable box?
By sxr7171 on 8/28/2007 12:35:05 AM , Rating: 2
It's not the Motorola's fault that ATSC is better, it's the cable company. As far as HD goes short of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, ATSC is pretty much as good as it gets (especially PBS HD). The cable companies take basically the ATSC signal and recompress that to save bandwidth or whatever it is they want to achieve. They might be more generous on bandwidth with certain channels like HBO or Discovery HD, but a good clean ATSC broadcast usually beats those. Now the cable box does matter if you are asking it scale, but you really should let the TV do it, and as long you are using HDMI or DVI, the cable box is really out of the picture. Your cable provider and TV are.




RE: How do you blame the cable box?
By Anh Huynh on 8/28/2007 2:01:01 AM , Rating: 3
I blame the cable box because the cable box is decoding the signal and if the tuner and processors are junk, the picture will come out pretty bad.

Think of it as comparing two TV Tuners, say an ATI Theater 550 to a cheapie Avermedia one, the quality difference is highly noticeable, with the same graphics card and monitor.

It's not a matter of scaling, but a matter of decoding the signal.


RE: How do you blame the cable box?
By sxr7171 on 8/28/2007 2:29:03 PM , Rating: 2
It is simple MPEG-2 decoding. How is the cable box going to get that wrong? This is 2007 and any box should do MPEG-2 decoding right. The differences come in with scaling and usually your TV will do a better job. You could blame the box if you are using analog outputs and it's analog circuitry is really cheap. But the actual decoding is some MPEG-2 chip that has come from over 10 years of development of MPEG-2 decoding chips.


RE: How do you blame the cable box?
By Anh Huynh on 8/28/2007 3:16:59 PM , Rating: 2
While ATSC is digital and MPEG, the scaler is not what yields the quality differences. There are plenty of things that can go wrong in the decoding process from color decoding to post-processing filters.

Certain MPEG2 decoders handle streams differently, process it differently. Some decoders apply anti-aliasing, have a richer color gamut for processing.

Just because its a digital signal doesn't mean its all processed the same. A DVD played on player A and player B can yield different quality, even if outputed via HDMI from the same disk.


RE: How do you blame the cable box?
By sxr7171 on 8/28/2007 3:54:41 PM , Rating: 2
Differences at this stage 10-12 years since MPEG-2 has been out are minute at best and unnoticeable. People pay more only for better scalers. You can't tell me that after 12 years of developing MPEG-2 decoders Motorola could not get it right.

I can see where calculations may occur at different levels of accuracy with regard to rounding and precision but really any modern MPEG-2 decoding stage is pretty much equivalent in result.

There was a time when we would compare perhaps Cinemaster's software decoder with CyberDVD's or someone else's hardware decoder but today the decoding itself is pretty much standard. This 2007.

The fact that Comcast (and every other cable operator)overcompresses channels is a known fact: http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?...

This thread talks about setting your cable box to output 480i on SD channels to bypass its poor scaler/upconverter.

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?...


By Procurion on 8/29/2007 8:50:11 AM , Rating: 2
MPEG 2 is really only 8 years old, with full use and acceptance sometime after 1999. Just because a standard is described in 1998 doesn't mean it was even available to the public then. If your statement is true, go out and buy a budget, $500 LCD "HDTV" and then you can come over and watch mine. You will be jealous. The different ways to decode/display include "interlaced"(old) and prograssive. Different technologies(proprietary) are used by different equipment manufacturers to translate a signal to sound and picture. SXR, you have no clue.


RE: How do you blame the cable box?
By sxr7171 on 8/28/2007 2:41:15 PM , Rating: 2
Also with a TV tuner card the big difference is in getting that picture to your monitor's native resolution. That involves scaling especially since most monitors don't operate at HD resolutions. For example my Dell 24" is 1920x1200 but 1080i is 1920x1080 and my ATI HD-Wonder has to scale the image up to the that resolution. That's where the quality differences lie between a cheap HD tuner and an expensive one. The signal is digital MPEG-2 and the tuner simply decodes it standard MPEG-2 decoding. Some of them do it hardware and some in software, but MPEG-2 being an old standard there shouldn't be any difference between decoders. It's not like the early days of MPEG or even MP3 when we were comparing decoder quality around 1998-2000. Now any decoder produces essentially the same result but it is the scaling to your TV's native resolution or that of your monitor where the differences lie.

ATSC is simply better because it is THE feed from the TV station and your TV decodes that and puts the 1080i image up there. If it is 720p then it has to scale it to 1080p and that's when the quality of the TV/Cable Box/whatever comes in.


RE: How do you blame the cable box?
By Spivonious on 8/28/2007 10:24:46 AM , Rating: 2
The cable box gets the cable signal and decodes it.

The ATSC tuner in the TV gets the cable signal and decodes it.

How is this the cable company's fault?


RE: How do you blame the cable box?
By omnicronx on 8/28/2007 12:26:07 PM , Rating: 2
How isnt it? He just said the only box he could get from his provider was the Motorola DCT-6400. If the decoders are not up to snuff, and its the only box they have without paying a hefty pricetag, then i would say it is the cable companies 'fault'. With my digital cable i would not let my cable company give me the old cable box because the new one had a much better decoder, at least i had the choice.


RE: How do you blame the cable box?
By UNCjigga on 8/28/2007 2:10:47 PM , Rating: 2
FYI the Motorola Series III tuners (DCT-3412/3416 and later DCT-6412/6416 models) have much, much better "standard" channel picture quality. These tuners are typically used in Comcast markets that have migrated to all-digital simulcasting (that is all channels are broadcast in digital, including channels 2-118).


RE: How do you blame the cable box?
By sxr7171 on 8/28/2007 3:00:26 PM , Rating: 2
Again has to be due to better scalers. They have to take that 480i MPEG-2 and output to your TV's native resolution unless you have it set to output the actual 480i and have your TV do the scaling (which is usually better especially if you have an expensive TV with a top-notch scaler).


RE: How do you blame the cable box?
By UNCjigga on 10/22/2007 11:19:15 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, that's what I do with mine. I don't have an "expensive" TV, but the ATI chip in my Westinghouse does a fine job of scaling 480i content. You can actually configure the Comcast box to output SD content at one resolution and HD content at another, so I have mine set to 480i/1080i for the best picture (I don't have a 1080p TV but the Comcast box sucks at doing progressive, so 1080i gives the best picture.)


RE: How do you blame the cable box?
By sxr7171 on 8/28/2007 2:32:14 PM , Rating: 2
Because cable companies take the ATSC broadcast signal and recompress and even re-scale the image in some cases.


Happy For You, but...
By bplewis24 on 8/28/2007 1:08:58 AM , Rating: 3
I'm glad everything worked out for you (despite having to make a second trip because of one CableCard that could not be activated).

However, I do indeed have a horror story with regards to CableCard, and I'm not so sure it was all by chance or coincidence that I had to schedule for a tech to come out 5 times with a CC before one actually showed up with one. The first two times the tech came out he claimed to have no knowledge of me wanting a CableCard, and instead had a shiny new STB that he claimed was "free of charge" that I should use instead. The next two times the tech NEVER showed up in the 4 hour window that my install was scheduled. I'm sure none of us have ever had that happen before, have we?

The 5th time an installer finally showed up with 1 CableCard, and he was a very nice gentleman who tried everything he could to get it to work, but to no avail. When he told me he only brought one CableCard with him I already knew my chances were slim, but the onslaught of error codes that followed pretty much sealed my fate. An hour and a half later we just gave up, and I decided not to schedule for another guy to come out for fear that the 1-in-5 odds of getting a Tech with a CC would hold up again.

However, you have inspired me to do what you did and go by the local Comcast office and try and pick one up myself. I may have more luck doing the install as it seemed like I knew more about the CableCard than the actual tech anyway. I told him what some of the error codes meant before he could get in touch with the tech at the home office.

I guess the moral of the story is...your mileage may vary, but most people tend to be in for a looooong ride.

Brandon




RE: Happy For You, but...
By Anh Huynh on 8/28/2007 2:02:01 AM , Rating: 2
It's strange, I read a lot of horror stories with Comcast, but I've had nothing but good luck with them up here. The people that work there have always been very nice, cheerful and helpful.


RE: Happy For You, but...
By Spivonious on 8/28/2007 10:29:53 AM , Rating: 2
My Comcast office is pretty bad (south-central PA). We bought out cable modem at Circuit City and activated it there. The next month's bill comes and it shows a modem rental fee. We call up Comcast and get a woman who doesn't really seem to care and says that she'll refund the charge. She then transfers us to the Internet division who confirms that the system shows we own our own modem. Okay, problem solved, right? Bzzz wrong. Next month's bill, modem rental fee is still on there and there is no sign of any refund for the previous month. Call them again, get "disconnected". Call them a third time, same deal as the first time "everything should be fine now." Next month comes along, hey guess what? Modem rental fee. We finally give up and go to the local office. Very nice lady brings up our account, sees that we own a modem, takes off the rental charge, and refunds us the $25 we had paid the previous months.

Maybe it's just their call centers that stink?


Crappy headline
By Doormat on 8/28/2007 2:10:35 AM , Rating: 4
I had a poor CC experience as well, and I think its kinda crappy you just dismiss the large group of people who had 3 or more tech visits to get the TiVo operational. I took four visits.

And this doesn't even go into how Cox is screwing me with prices - a regular STB HD DVR rental is $16/mo ($6 box, $10 DVR fee). Cox charges me $9 for my TiVo HD box and its not even their box - $2 per CC, plus a BS $4.95/mo fee because they count the second card in my TiVo as a seperate outlet, even though its in the same device (they don't do this to their own HD DVRs - a double standard).

Anyways, I'm glad you're happy with the TiVo. I love mine too (I'm waiting for prices on large HDs to come down a bit more before I upgrade my HD).

But wait until Comcast starts rolling out SDV and all of a sudden the TiVo cant view those channels beacuse it lacks the two way communication. Cox just annouced a big push and I'm starting to get worried. TiVo promised a fix for SDV but not a single word yet...




RE: Crappy headline
By irev210 on 8/28/2007 7:08:22 AM , Rating: 2
I very much agree.

Why dont you change the headline to "TiVo HD DVR CABLE CARD INSTALL goes smoothly"

I know many people whom have had major headaches getting their cable card systems (be it TiVo or ATI OCUR) working.

Consider yourself lucky. Many cable co's wont even let you get cards at your local office. You have to pay for a tech to come out and put them in.


Congratulations...
By McTwist on 8/28/2007 7:45:45 PM , Rating: 1
now get outside and play some frisbee golf or hackysack with those hippies at Western.