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British UFO hacker won't be sent to the U.S. to face computer charges... yet

Britain's Home Secretary Alan Johnson will analyze recently introduced medical evidence before admitted NASA hacker Gary McKinnon can be extradited to the United States.

McKinnon reportedly suffers from Asperger's Syndrome, a unique form of autism, and it has been argued it would be inhumane to extradite McKinnon to face charges in the U.S.  The Briton has admitted he hacked into computer networks belonging to NASA and various branches of the U.S. military.  

"We have stopped the clock ticking on the representation to the European Court because new medical evidence has been provided," Home Secretary Johnson said in a statement.

In "stopping the clock," McKinnon's attorneys will have time to evaluate the medical records and file documents with the European Court of Human Rights.

In August, McKinnon, who carried out the "biggest military hack of all time," lost his final appeal, and it seemed his extradition would be carried out immediately.  McKinnon used his dial-up modem and software freely available over the internet to conduct the network intrusions against NASA, Department of Defense, U.S. Air Force, Army, and Navy.

The multi-year case first started in 2002 when McKinnon was indicted in Virginia on seven counts of computer-related offenses.  Since the beginning, supporters urge the government to try McKinnon in the United Kingdom on computer misuse charges, instead of extraditing him.

If extradited and convicted in the U.S., McKinnon faces up to 60 years in federal prison.


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Gee how many more times...
By knutjb on 10/28/2009 8:57:21 AM , Rating: 2
Wow he has aspergers? This is new? OMG! Better rethink the who thing.

What a load of tripe. New medical info my a$$. His lawyer has been crying about it since I first heard this story. He needs to stand trail for his crime.




RE: Gee how many more times...
By BZDTemp on 10/28/2009 9:05:53 AM , Rating: 2
No - it is not new that he suffers from aspegers. You better get some facts instead of imagining things.

Anyone in the US would cry foul if a US citizen was to be send of to a foregin country for a crime a lot less serious in the US. This is a similar situation - he may be a hacker but 60 years is simply stupid so of course he should stand trial in the UK not the US.


RE: Gee how many more times...
By fatedtodie on 10/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: Gee how many more times...
By fatedtodie on 10/28/2009 9:21:31 AM , Rating: 2
whiel=while.

Apperently I can't spell correctly when I am annoyed by stupidity.


RE: Gee how many more times...
By acase on 10/28/2009 9:44:24 AM , Rating: 2
Not to mention using commas...


RE: Gee how many more times...
By Dorz on 10/28/2009 10:22:25 AM , Rating: 3
"While he was "in" the UK when he committed his crime it was a crime against American computers."

That quote says it all about the disposition of many Americans, particularly your government. You think it is your god given right to have people submit to your every whim, just because your 'American', who the hell do you think you are...oh wait yes that's right, American.

Despite my tone, I have nothing against America but some of your citizens (including you) need to learn that there is more to the world besides America and it's constitution.

The computers and systems he hacked from what I have read, had very inadequate security measures in place, given the sensitivity of the data on those systems. Those tax dollars you talk about should have been spent on better protecting your networks.

McKinnon's job of getting into your governments systems' was made a lot easier because of there failure to adequately secure their stuff. This guy used freely available tools and a dial-up connection to do what he is accused of doing (and I would not put it past certain elements within the US government to fabricate or enhance the case against McKinnon). You would think your mighty government installations would have enough measures in place to deal with such a small person in such a small country...wouldn't you?

The post before your one is true in every way. The US would NEVER extradite one of it's citizens to the UK in similar circumstances. So you can quit with the righteous and hypocritical attitude you appear to be displaying; it doesn't float.

Our government for whatever reason bends over for the US at every whim. Its about time they just said No to the US. He did the crime in the UK, not the US, he should be tried here and after he has done his time OUR government should be putting his abilities to good use and have him work for them.

The problem is our government lacks any common-sense or ability to lead this once 'Great' Britain, so McKinnon unfortunately will be extradited.

PS how can you say he is not a good person? Do you know him? Have you met him?


RE: Gee how many more times...
By NaughtyMonkey on 10/28/2009 10:42:07 AM , Rating: 2
1. He is being extradited to stand trial, he has not been convicted or sentenced yet.

2. He has confessed his guilt.

3. His medical and mental conditions will be taken into account during the sentencing phase, if he is found guilty.

Yes, he was physically in the UK, but he committed a crime in the US. Do you really have problems understanding that legal construct?

He committed a crime, he confessed to it, and he will be extradited to stand trial for it. He committed no crime in the UK, so how can he be tried there? Its not like he faces the death penalty, and I will wager that his sentence will be extremely light, taking into account the relations between the UK and US, and his medical/mental condition.


RE: Gee how many more times...
By BZDTemp on 10/28/2009 2:04:53 PM , Rating: 2
You are contradicting yourself. No man can be in two locations at one time and since he was in the UK as he did something wrong he ought to be put at trial in the UK. If he did nothing wrong with regards to UK laws there should be no case.

Let me give you a parallel example. I live in Denmark and in my country a cartoon artists did some drawings depicting a God with a Turban holding a bomb. This was meant as a commentary to terrorists doing terror in the name of this certain God and also the fact that some people refrain from debating the issue due to fear of becoming targets. Guess what in some countries in the Middle East the cartoon was/is considered blasphemy and even illegal so a Death sentence has been given.

By your logic the cartoon artist should be grabbed by my government and sent to his death in one of those countries. I hope you can see that would be wrong but there really is no difference in the principle of those two cases.

You may say that the death sentence for a cartoon is extreme but so is possible 60 years for doing a bit of hacking (which caused nothing but moderate monetary damage). Viewed from Europe both the US and the criminal laws in many Middle Eastern countries are extreme.


RE: Gee how many more times...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/28/2009 3:35:29 PM , Rating: 1
Do you know how retarded you sound ?

I'm pretty sure you would change your tune if this was an American doing whatever they hell he wanted to other countries as long as it was legal in the US. Come off it.


RE: Gee how many more times...
By croc on 10/28/2009 7:09:56 PM , Rating: 2
One OF YOUR American citizens, a Navy sailor, was arrested in Perth, Australia, for slashing an Aussie's face open with a broken beer bottle in a pub. He was returned to the Navy, who promised that he would be dealt with. We never heard what the outcome of that was. Another American sailor was arrested for rape, and the US Navy DEMANDED that he be handed over. Then there were the rapes that happened over in Okinawa, the offenders were spirited off next plane out. That 'incident' almost cost the US all of their bases in Okinawa.


RE: Gee how many more times...
By intelpatriot on 10/29/2009 3:27:14 AM , Rating: 2
Those are manly crimes. They are understandable.

It's not the samea at all.


RE: Gee how many more times...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/29/2009 5:47:31 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry you can't extradite people in the military. It doesn't work that way.

For one, they are federal employees. Secondly, they may posses knowledge of a classified nature, and once they are extradited there's no way of knowing they won't be compromised. And we all know how well American prisoners are treated oversees.

But hey, don't let rationality and logic change your mind.


RE: Gee how many more times...
By Misty Dingos on 10/28/2009 3:49:27 PM , Rating: 2
International treaties take precedence over local laws in almost every instance. The United Kingdom has several treaties with the USA regarding the extradition of persons for trial.

This is in no way a one way street. If a citizen of the USA commits a crime in the UK and he is caught in the USA he will be extradited to the UK to stand trial and likely spend his sentence there. This is hardly a unique situation.

The only problem here is that people don't want a kid to spend the rest of his life in prison for what they don't perceive as a serious crime. In the view of the government of the USA it is and we are in our well within our treaty rights to pursue this legal action.

Personally I don't think he would get any jail time at all. It has been a long time since the crime and if he does have Asperger's he would horribly traumatized by a stay in any prison USA, UK or Denmark. This would immediately prevent any chance that he would go to a prison in the USA because we have the 8th amendment to the US Constitution which prohibits cruel or unusual punishment.

Does the USA take crime seriously overall. Yes it does. But we also have many rights that prevent gross miscarriages of justice. One of those would be to sentence anyone with a debilitating mental condition to 60 years in prison.

The truth here is that if he had been extradited quickly he would likely be back now in the UK with this chapter of his life a distant memory.


RE: Gee how many more times...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/28/2009 3:53:35 PM , Rating: 2
Our own murderers don't even spend that long in jail. I'm pretty sure this kid isn't going to spend 60 years in jail.

But Aspergers ?? lmao please. And I thought only American defense lawyers came up with outlandish excuses.


RE: Gee how many more times...
By NaughtyMonkey on 10/28/2009 3:56:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No man can be in two locations at one time and since he was in the UK as he did something wrong he ought to be put at trial in the UK.


No, you are completely wrong on this. The crime was committed in the US, not the UK. Legally, he had a presence in the US (his connection to the various servers) and the crime was committed in US. This is a rather basic legal precept.

He broke US law, he admits he broke US law, and if the UK has any respect for the legal system, he has to be extradited. Now, I agree that his offense was somewhat trivial, and embarrassing for the US. But there is precedent to consider. OK, say we give him a pass because he has Aspergers (a very difficult disorder to diagnose, since there are no physical manifestations). So now some Chinese military hacker starts banging into various servers. When caught, he just claims Aspergers. Without extradition, the US court cannot determine whether the accused has the condition. Its not about whether we trust the Brits, its about whether we trust everyone else in the world. Mr. McKinnon has to be brought to a US court where, I would hope, his Aspergers would be evaluated and taken into consideration.

Ultimately, this is not about Mr. McKinnon, who seems to be a very disturbed man. Its about the legal precedent. Once he admitted to the crime, the US legal system kicked into action. The warrant must be executed. Mr. McKinnon needs to stand trial, as does Mr. Polanski. While Mr. Polanski is a rapist, and Mr. McKinnon is just a nutty geek, they most both be equal in the eyes of the Court.


RE: Gee how many more times...
By BZDTemp on 10/28/2009 7:28:02 PM , Rating: 2
I see your point but it just not that black and white.

For example I live in a country where there is no such thing as the death penalty. So we have laws saying that we will not extradite anyone if they in any way can end up getting put down.

This hacker case is sort of similar to me. Of course it is not a given he will be even found guilty but the differences in punishment levels are huge and that is a problem. A 60 year sentence is pretty much life imprisonment and not many countries in the EU have that (if any). For example here in Denmark murder 1. equals 16 years.


RE: Gee how many more times...
By pepito perez on 10/28/2009 6:20:20 PM , Rating: 3
Does Bhopal sound familiar to you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster

3,928 deaths had been certified, nobody has been extradited from US. Sounds fair to me *sarcasm*


RE: Gee how many more times...
By KCjoker on 10/28/2009 7:06:14 PM , Rating: 2
If an American had done this to the UK I would expect him to be sent there to stand trial so no hypocrisy here. It's easy to break into a house as well but it's still a crime the home owner shouldn't be blamed. I don't know if he's a good person but I do know he's a criminal and should be treated as such until he's paid his debt for that crime.


RE: Gee how many more times...
By barjebus on 10/28/2009 1:14:09 PM , Rating: 2
You're mistaken about the facts on this case. All Gary did was write a perl script to attempt to login to any external facing computers (i.e. connected directly to the internet). You want to guess what he used to crack the password? Blanks! He was simply using a script that used blank password to attempt to login to military computers that WERE CONNECTED DIRECTLY TO THE INTERNET.

1.) He didn't destroy any data, material, or information belonging to the U.S. or NASA.
2.) The "losses" of American tax dollars as a result of his hack were spent making sure that all these external facing computers actually were given passwords!

To be perfectly honest, if I owned a business and someone broke into my computers, looked through some of my files, and showed how incompetent I am, I'd thank him for the lesson and patch the hole.

But instead the U.S. needs a scapegoat...someone to redirect the blame to for their own stupidity and incompetence. I believe Gary should be extradited, and that he face charges, but not the trumped up ones the U.S. is trying to lay on him.


RE: Gee how many more times...
By tmouse on 10/29/2009 8:31:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
To be perfectly honest, if I owned a business and someone broke into my computers, looked through some of my files, and showed how incompetent I am, I'd thank him for the lesson and patch the hole.


So tell us if you came home and found someone rummaging through your stuff, but the swore they were ONLY THERE LOOKING, and said by the way you have a really cheap lock on your door. You would say thank you for bringing that to my attention and just let them go? Thats the reason we have the problems we do today. If you go to a store and you see a door to the back open do you wander in and start looking around, probably not we know its not a public area eventhough the store is. If you saw a group of guys get out of a van and run to different houses and try the doors would you sit in your hous and not notify anyone thinking well if my neighbors get robbed because they forgot to lock the door they deserve it? WSeb frounts are the public enterences, ANYTHING else is not. If you are trying to get into other servers you know its wrong, plain and simple. The argument they do not have adiquate security is the same as saying he deserved to get robbed because he looked rich or she deserverd to get raped because she looked slutty so lets not punish the person who did the crime. By this logic we should all have houses like fort Knox or we deserve to have anyone who wants to breakin.


RE: Gee how many more times...
By pharmakos on 10/28/2009 4:35:25 PM , Rating: 2
Hey fatedtodie

Give him a break. I doubt you know anything about computers , or UFOS. If you did you wouldn't feel this way. To call him a hacker is a joke. he used an off the shelf piece of software and its the American government's fault for leaving blatent holes in their security.

As far as UFOS go , you lack the capacity to understand this but they are the single most important issue in human history, it is a HUGE deal. Why do you think the government classifies UFO information top secret? Because there is nothing to it?


RE: Gee how many more times...
By SiN on 10/28/2009 1:38:44 PM , Rating: 2
no offence but come on, the guy should be allowed to stay in the uk. serving a sentence that fits the bill for breaking into a allies database. i could care less bout anything else.

this whole idea and philosophy about politics is bang out of order. he didn't kill anyone. i don't believe he has stole anything. if anything he demonstrated a weakness in US defense that should be sorted out. UNPLUG YOUR SENSITIVE DATA AND YOU WONT BE CYBER VICTIMS (same goes for any country or state)

why do you want to pay for the living costs of someone for 60 years?


Lame.
By icanhascpu on 10/28/2009 9:24:04 AM , Rating: 2
Not saying what he did was teh right way to go about things, but shouldn't people like this get a slap on the wrist and then offered a job in security? Maybe make the first 6 months mandatory instead of prison?

I mean what the fsck? We are letting people like this go to waste, and for what? To impart some sense of misguided justice? Indeed the people that should be reprimanded are the ones pushing shoddy security in the first place. FIRE THEM. HIRE THIS GUY.

1di0ts.




RE: Lame.
By nafhan on 10/28/2009 9:43:33 AM , Rating: 2
Some hackers turn around and make good security people. This guy, on the other hand, is a nut who's convinced the US government is hiding evidence of alien contact. There's more to a job like that than skill; things like ability to get a security clearance and mental stability are kind of important...


RE: Lame.
By icanhascpu on 10/28/2009 10:15:28 AM , Rating: 5
So let him try and continue hacking away at the security. Whats he going to do? Show us what security holes need to be fixed? Nuts or not, he has more of a use in something major than most people.

Insane people even being able to get past security really makes me think about the sanity of the people in charge of such security.


RE: Lame.
By silverblue on 10/28/2009 12:32:43 PM , Rating: 2
I hope I'm not splitting hairs here, but there are bored/malicious people out there writing very destructive virii, Trojan Horses etc. every day which cause untold damage to tens of thousands of computers on an alarmingly regular basis... and I've not heard of any of them, when caught, getting 60 years.

Please prove me wrong, but I think this is disproportionate.


RE: Lame.
By Justin Time on 10/28/2009 7:42:50 PM , Rating: 2
The USA is claiming this to be "the biggest military hack of all time" and that there was $700,000 damage caused.

McKinnon claims he only accessed unsecured machines, and did not cause any damage. He further claims that the USA is making up the damage claims, in order to cover their collective a** and make him the scapegoat for their own ineptitude.

It would be good to see the hard evidence of the havoc wreaked, and how the "hacking" was not simply an inevitable result of lax security policies.

I find it hard to believe that the USA's *REAL* cyber enemies would be anywhere hear as accommodating, as to leave a message telling them of their visit and how bad their security is.


RE: Lame.
By Reclaimer77 on 10/29/2009 12:54:02 AM , Rating: 2
Hackers exist to exploit security. You can't say " well, their security wasn't good enough, so he wasn't really hacking ". That's f'ing absurd. Hacking is illegal, period. Even attempting to do what he did is a crime regardless, weather or not it was successful.

Hey where do you live ? I'm going to break in and steal your crap and then get away with it because, hey, if you had better locks I wouldn't have broken in.


RE: Lame.
By Justin Time on 10/29/2009 4:00:28 AM , Rating: 2
If you want to use that analogy, then what McKinnon is claiming, is that he did the cyber equivilent of walking in through an open door, having a look about, and leaving... and on the way out left his business card with a note on the back suggesting they should get locks for the door.

How much of that is true, and how much of the counter-claims are true, your guess is as good as mine.


RE: Lame.
By Reclaimer77 on 10/29/2009 5:41:36 PM , Rating: 2
Again, that is STILL against the law. Ever heard of the term "attempted" ??

Hey let me shoot you in the leg or arm, and get away with it. After all, it's only a crime if you KILL, not attempt to right ?

I can't believe you guys are letting nationalistic hate for the US blinding you this much. If an American had done this, you would be calling for his head and it would be in the news every day.

This isn't some kid who browsed to a website for goodness sake. We all KNOW what he was trying to do, and he did it. Stop excusing it or making up bullcrap, this is absurd.


Yeah...
By Hyperion1400 on 10/28/2009 8:34:40 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
British UFO hacker won't be set to the U.S. to face computer charges... yet


Slight spelling error...




RE: Yeah...
By SSDMaster on 10/28/2009 9:08:29 AM , Rating: 2
I like Michael since he at least fixes his spelling errors. Other DT writers are okay with sporting their 7th grade grammar skills.

But seriously, this UFO guy is my hero.


If McKinnon is not extradited...
By bohhad on 10/28/2009 2:03:14 PM , Rating: 2
I'm going to spend all my free time hacking at British computer systems, comfortable in the knowledge that since I reside in the USA, I can't be held accountable for something I do overseas.




RE: If McKinnon is not extradited...
By Xavi3n on 10/28/2009 2:42:38 PM , Rating: 2
Since you reside in the USA, you won't be extradited anyway so it doesn't matter, hack to your hearts content regardless of what happens to Gary.

I wonder if the British Military has such incompetent security, be sure to find out for me, will you?


What is the hold up
By intelpatriot on 10/28/2009 3:56:58 PM , Rating: 1
You do the time, you get f-d in the ass by Bubba.

It's the American way. The sooner you Britfags learn that the better.




RE: What is the hold up
By intelpatriot on 10/28/2009 4:14:15 PM , Rating: 2
That's the beauty of living in the USA.

We may work longer hours, for less pay and benefits, but lol if we get our hands on you, you are going to suffer (in the ass).

And there's nothing your socialism can do about it.


Wake Up
By snapcrackerz on 10/29/2009 4:25:24 PM , Rating: 2
Listen I personally been keeping up on this story that is age old.
Nonetheless, I don't even see "Bush" even paid for his crimes against the world. This story is so much hype it makes me sick when people in our own .gov all over the world need judgment by its people. Lets place your governments and the crimes they pull off daily all over the world.




What it boils down to.
By tokersutd on 10/29/2009 8:05:52 PM , Rating: 2
As far as I'm concerned, what it all boils down to at the end of the day is the fact that the size of their proud American d*cks took a bashing the moment they discovered some of their top level security was hacked by someone who is mildly autistic, THAT'S what this is all about, THAT'S why every American is so eager to see the guy fry, the testosterone over load is just too much for them to take.




What a load of...
By NickFun on 10/31/2009 2:52:29 AM , Rating: 2
Crap. The US government is simply using McKinnon as a scapegoat for their own ineptitude. The man should be honored for revealing how simple it is to hack into a top level government computer! Do we think terrorists are NOT hacking in? I agree with this: http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/index.php?itemid...




He's never leaving
By Dingmatt on 10/29/2009 5:14:10 AM , Rating: 1
Gary McKinnon's never going to leave the UK and he'll never be sentenced.

Its time all the over-inflated Americans finally realize that.




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