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The HD format war continues as Blu-ray takes the slight edge

The latest sales numbers appear to indicate that Blu-ray has taken the lead over HD DVD in terms of title sales since inception. According to Nielsen VideoScan First Alert data, cited by Home Media Magazine, Blu-ray has racked up a slight lead in unit sales -- 100 units to every 98.71 units of HD DVD.

Up until the recent market stats released by Nielsen VideoScan, HD DVD held the lead in overall titles sold. Some attribute HD DVD’s previous lead to the format’s head start and less expensive players. Blu-ray Discs experienced a considerable surge in sales following the holiday season, eclipsing HD DVD sales numbers by two to three times.

The launch of the PlayStation 3 helps explain Blu-ray’s increased pace, though Ken Graffeo, head of HD DVD affairs at Universal Studios Home Entertainment—an HD DVD-only supporter—isn’t convinced in Sony’s console sway. “Given that the life-to-date title sales ratios are close to 1:1, and given that Blu-ray has a 5:1 ratio right now on the hardware side due to the PS3, why aren’t Blu-ray software sales outpacing HD DVD by a similar ratio?” he asked. “In fact, HD DVD players continue to have an attach rate (life-to-date) that is more than five times that of Blu-ray players.”

Another facet to Blu-ray’s recent success could simply be due to greater availability of new titles. The current selection of movies on Blu-ray and HD DVD are neck-and-neck, but Blu-ray has released more titles as of late. According to Home Media Magazine, there have been 35 Blu-ray releases to 19 for HD DVD, many of which have been costlier HD DVD/DVD combo discs.

“Seeing HD DVD in our rear-view mirror is no surprise to us,” said David Bishop, worldwide home entertainment president, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment. “It has always been Sony’s position that there would be an inevitable migration from HD DVD to Blu-ray because of several factors, including the technical superiority of Blu-ray, the successful launch of PlayStation 3, the growing availability of BD playback machines and BD-enabled computers from the best consumer electronic brands in the world, as well as the growing number of hit titles being made available on the BD format.”

While executives of either HD DVD or Blu-ray exclusive studios thump their chests, movie studios such as Warner and Paramount appear happy to sell movies to the faithful on both sides. “We’re not in this for winning or losing,” said Steve Nickerson, SVP of market management for Warner Home Video. “Both formats are selling well on software.”



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NOT Surprised
By Marlin1975 on 2/27/07, Rating: 0
RE: NOT Surprised
By Spartan Niner on 2/27/07, Rating: 0
RE: NOT Surprised
By MrDiSante on 2/27/2007 9:49:06 PM , Rating: 3
Key word here being "addon". Meaning that it's not forced down your throat. As for Microsoft inflating numbers - unlikely, HD-DVD isn't their baby, it's more of a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" sort of thing. The others may well be inflating their own numbers though.


RE: NOT Surprised
By clayclws on 2/27/2007 10:16:18 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
it's not forced down your throat


I guess Sony has a winning strategy there... although not that enticing...


RE: NOT Surprised
By BladeVenom on 2/27/2007 10:56:16 PM , Rating: 4
It may may be beneficial to Blu-ray, but I think it was bad for the PS3.


RE: NOT Surprised
By MrSmurf on 2/27/2007 11:02:33 PM , Rating: 3
You're probably right but missing two keys points. To some the PS3 is their Blu-Ray player and the PS3 is still a Blu-Ray player and should be included. After all this is why Sony included BR w/ the PS3.


RE: NOT Surprised
By plonk420 on 2/27/2007 11:45:45 PM , Rating: 5
if you've read ANY OTHER article, each one DIRECTLY says that the PS3 pack-in is not included with totals...


RE: NOT Surprised
By Gatt on 2/27/2007 11:52:37 PM , Rating: 2
Neilson doesn't count titles packaged with the Player, the movie in the PS3 box doesn't count. BR is outselling HD-DVD.


RE: NOT Surprised
By masher2 (blog) on 2/28/2007 12:04:43 AM , Rating: 1
> "Neilson doesn't count titles packaged with the Player..."

However, the movies sold via the $10 off coupon incentives packed with that PS3 do count towards that total.

And given Nielsen is counting the HD-DVD/DVD combo discs as DVD sales (rather than HD-DVD) those figures need to be taken with a grain of salt.


RE: NOT Surprised
By michal1980 on 2/28/07, Rating: -1
RE: NOT Surprised
By lufoxe on 2/28/2007 9:54:36 AM , Rating: 3
I believe this is an appropriate place to add either "????" or "wtf?"


RE: NOT Surprised
By Carl B on 2/28/2007 1:36:25 PM , Rating: 2
Why wouldn't the incentivized BD's be counted? You may disparage the rebates as skewing the numbers - but that's just sour grapes. It's a smart move by Sony, plain and simple.

Also the combo discs are counted as HD DVD sales as of February, and have been retroactively added in their entirety to the total HD DVD sales.

You can follow all the action here if you like:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=79...


RE: NOT Surprised
By masher2 (blog) on 2/28/2007 1:43:07 PM , Rating: 2
> "Why wouldn't the incentivized BD's be counted? You may disparage the rebates as skewing the numbers - but that's just sour grapes."

You miss the point. Sure those sales should be counted. But their effect is just a temporary blip...those coupons only last until they're used.

The real omission from the figures is the HD-DVD/DVD combo discs, which Nielsen doesn't count towards HD-DVD sales.


RE: NOT Surprised
By Carl B on 2/28/2007 1:52:22 PM , Rating: 2
You can't be serious - I *just* addressed that in my post; did you completely pass it over?

Nielson does account for the combo discs as HD DVD - and retroactively adds all previous combo sales to total sales numbers - beginning with their Jan 21st numbers.


RE: NOT Surprised
By masher2 (blog) on 2/28/2007 2:04:06 PM , Rating: 2
> "Nielson does account for the combo discs as HD DVD ..."

According to your own link, people are questioning whether or not that's actually true. I haven't seen any official pronouncement from Nielsen on the matter.


RE: NOT Surprised
By Carl B on 2/28/2007 2:09:44 PM , Rating: 2
That thread is 79 pages long. I'm not going to search it at this very moment, but within it are hard quotes indicating that the HD DVD cobos were ommited for the first two weeks of data, and that it has since been corrected.


RE: NOT Surprised
By Carl B on 2/28/2007 2:18:39 PM , Rating: 2
Ok, I actually *did* search it since I remember who posted it, and this is the direct link to where that issue gets clarified:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=96...


RE: NOT Surprised
By masher2 (blog) on 2/28/2007 2:21:49 PM , Rating: 2
And further down, users call that statement BS, as they themselves attempted to get a clarification from Nielsen and were refused.


RE: NOT Surprised
By Carl B on 2/28/2007 2:32:20 PM , Rating: 2
Well, you're of course entitled to skepticism, but whatever else the case, SI numbers for HD DVD jumped significantly relative to BD in the Jan 21st report, and this was due to a recalculation *somewhere*. This is very much consistent with a combo consideration, and further I don't view Grubert's email from the online mag as having much to do with peoples attempts to contact Nielsen themselves; it would naturally seem the case that Nielsen would be more clammy on the subject than their clients.


RE: NOT Surprised
By masher2 (blog) on 2/28/2007 3:01:51 PM , Rating: 2
You make a good point. I'll consider that issue as 'probably' settled then, until more definite information comes to light.


I'm starting to turn...
By timmiser on 2/27/2007 11:34:13 PM , Rating: 2
I was an early backer of the HD-DVD format but I think I may be changing my opinion as of late. First of all, I have a large screen 1080p television and a high definition DV camcorder. I've even been buying the HD-DVD discs that have both the HD and Standard on the same disc so I would be more prepared when I got a player. I've got an X-Box 360 so it will only cost me $200 to get an HD-player but here are my problems:

1. I hate to get the Xbox player because I will only get 1080i resolution with my Toshiba 1080p big screen. The 1080p HD-DVD player is $900 or so. Ouch!

2. Where are the HD-DVD burners so I can put my own movies on an HD-DVD that I have made for the past year on my HDV camcorder? "Soon" has been said for over a year now!

Why Blue Ray?

1. I can get a 1080p player for $599 and maybe soon to be less via the PS3 and rumored price reductions plus it will play games too.

1a. Dang, that Motorstorm game on PS3 looks pretty good when the demo is playing in stores.

2. I can get a Blue Ray burner now to make my own movies on Blue Ray discs for the high-def movies I've shot on my camcorder for the past year and a half.

3. I've also noticed that there are more Blue Ray movies and much more on the release calander on only the Blue Ray format.

I was a big HD-DVD supporter initially because of the price of the player but if I were to make a move today, it would be Blue Ray. (Of course I'll put off this decision for as long as I can hoping for lower prices and/or a dual format player.




RE: I'm starting to turn...
By Crowbar77 on 2/27/2007 11:53:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I hate to get the Xbox player because I will only get 1080i resolution with my Toshiba 1080p big screen. The 1080p HD-DVD player is $900 or so. Ouch!


The x360 does 1080p now with a simple firmware update.


RE: I'm starting to turn...
By timmiser on 2/28/2007 3:10:52 AM , Rating: 2
That firmware update to 1080p only works on a couple TV models. Doesn't work for Toshiba of all brands!


RE: I'm starting to turn...
By masher2 (blog) on 2/27/2007 11:58:13 PM , Rating: 2
> "The 1080p HD-DVD player is $900 or so. Ouch!"

The HD-A20 available next month, outputs 1080p and will retail for $599, with a street price probably about $100 below that.

In any case, you're making far too much of 1080p capability. 1080i properly encoded can be converted back to 1080p with zero loss of image quality.


RE: I'm starting to turn...
By Scorpion on 2/28/2007 12:50:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
1080i properly encoded can be converted back to 1080p with zero loss of image quality.


How so? Please enlighten me how you can convert from one to the other with zero loss at equivalent frame rates? (or even inequivalent ones)

A much better explanation is the fact that with more interlacing lines, it is far less noticeable when using "deinterlacing" algorithms to approximate the original uninterlaced frames. Deinterlacing is never lossless since it is performing interpolation.

This is why 1080i on a display with a very good hardware deinterlacer looks very equivalent to 1080p to the average viewer.


RE: I'm starting to turn...
By masher2 (blog) on 2/28/2007 1:10:11 PM , Rating: 2
> "How so? Please enlighten me how you can convert from one to the other with zero loss.."

Sure. When a movie encoded at 1080p24 is output as 1080i, it segments frames into equal-time index interlaced fields. To reconvert that into 1080p, a deinterlacer only needs to do a reverse weave operation, which doesn't introduce any artifacts. The final image is identical to the original, non-interlaced one.

If the interlaced fields didn't have equal time indices (such as telecined material played via 3:2 pulldown), then you have to use interpolation or other techniques to deinterlace, which introduces artifacts on fast moving material.

Quite obviously deinterlacing cuts your frame rate, which for i@30fps material might cause flicker or on a diplay without a frame buffer...but all modern HDTVs have these. And since the non-progressive Toshiba players output 1080i60 anyway (as opposed to a 30fps signal) this isn't even an issue.


RE: I'm starting to turn...
By Kurgie on 2/28/2007 1:14:19 PM , Rating: 2
You're thinking of video. What's on BluRay/HDDVD is film. It's inherently progressive.

The source is a 1080p24 signal, meaning 24 1920x1080 frames per second. 1080i is 60 half-sized frames per second. To convert a 1080p24 signal (interlace it) you just use 3:2 pulldown (or the opposite, whatever it's called) and basically put 1/2 a 1080p frame in each 1080i cycle. To deinterlace, you do the opposite - 3:2 pulldown and combine each two frames to form a single frame.

You're only interpolating (temporally) when the source is inherently interlaced, e.g. video.


RE: I'm starting to turn...
By robertgu on 2/28/2007 1:56:23 PM , Rating: 2
I second this statement.

When it comes to playing 1080p24 video, 1080i and 1080p are equal in quality. People are getting caught up in the useless marketing of these video vendors. IIRC, the only time 1080i and 1080p could have a difference in quality is if the source video signal was 1080i30 vs 1080p30.


RE: I'm starting to turn...
By Scorpion on 2/28/2007 3:48:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You're only interpolating (temporally) when the source is inherently interlaced, e.g. video.

That was not my understanding. What you said makes sense, and works, under strict assumptions, but I still doubt it's "zero loss" assumption.

So... the player converts 1080p24 to 1080i60 via 3:2 pulldown. It sends that signal to your TV. Your TV reverses this process, interweaving the 1080i60 signal back to a 1080p60 signal in a 3-2-3-2... pattern. It then performs inverse telecine to convert the 1080p60 signal to 1080p24. Yes I suppose with appropriate time encoding flags, and when the signal is kept as uncompressed digital via HDMI cable or such, then the conversion-deconversion process can be assumed as lossless.

The assumptions are strong, but possible. But will films always remain at 24fps now that we have HD storage capabilities? If you break the 1080p24 assumption of the data format, then the reverse process isn't lossless.

Another thing I don't understand is why the player couldn't directly output the 1080p24 signal from the player and leave out the conversion-deconversion process. Sending a 1080i60 signal requires more bandwidth than a 1080p24 signal, correct?


RE: I'm starting to turn...
By masher2 (blog) on 2/28/2007 5:31:26 PM , Rating: 2
> "The assumptions are strong, but possible."

More than possible. It's already being done, by any HD player which outputs 1080i. Unless your display is reading the flags wrong, its going to identically regenerate the original 1080p signal.

> "But will films always remain at 24fps now that we have HD storage capabilities? If you break the 1080p24 assumption of the data format, then the reverse process isn't lossless"

First of all, an HD-DVD (or Blu Ray) player will always be 1080p24. You can assume a higher frame rate...but if so, that'll be on a different player anyway, so your concerns about interlaced output are null and void.

And the frame rate isn't the issue in any case. You can reverse weave an interlaced signal regardless of the rate....as long as each frame half has equal time indices. Its only when this isn't true that you introduce artifacts through deinterlacing.


RE: I'm starting to turn...
By FifthElement on 2/28/2007 1:34:23 AM , Rating: 3
Why does 1080i output matter? Your 1080p TV will convert it to progressive anyways. It either does it on the player, or on the TV if it supports it. Either way, your good to go.


RE: I'm starting to turn...
By Kurgie on 2/28/2007 12:55:34 PM , Rating: 2
This is correct. I don't understand why people are obsessing over this. Bluray/HDDVD movies are 1080p24. You can fit a 1080p24 signal losslessly in a 1080i (60HZ) signal. Assuming your TV doesn't do retarded deinterlacing, it doesn't matter if your player outputs at 1080i or 1080p.

It's not like video which is shot natively interlaced, where you lose temporal resolution. This is just a simple weave.


RE: I'm starting to turn...
By BillionDollarRhino on 2/28/2007 1:19:36 PM , Rating: 2
RE: I'm starting to turn...
By timmiser on 2/28/2007 11:19:35 PM , Rating: 2
The link you provided points to 1080i HD-DVD players. As I stated, I was referring to 1080p HD-DVD players at $900 or so.


RE: I'm starting to turn...
By Oregonian2 on 2/28/2007 5:08:56 PM , Rating: 2
Although the $385 (new) Toshiba HD-DVD player only outputs up to 1080i, I swear I read somewhere that HDTV's convert 1080i internally to 1080p anyway before being displayed, so it really doesn't matter so long as the source is 1080. This not true?


RE: I'm starting to turn...
By masher2 (blog) on 2/28/2007 5:33:51 PM , Rating: 2
> "This not true?"

For properly-encoded film material-- its true. There are a few special cases where its not, but 99% of the time, if you're watching a disc on an HDTV, it doesn't matter whether the link between them is 1080p or 1080i.


This isn't too surprising.
By vhx on 2/28/07, Rating: 0
RE: This isn't too surprising.
By masher2 (blog) on 2/28/2007 6:32:05 AM , Rating: 5
> "A lot of companies have already pulled support for them..."

Why do people spread disinformation like this? Are you really so emotionally tied to Blu Ray? No one has "pulled support" for HD-DVD. In fact, a few smaller studios announced new HD-DVD support just last month, bringing the total to 19 (one more than Blu-Ray's 18).

There are more hardware makers behind Blu Ray. But so far, most of them haven't chosen to release a player.

> "TBH I think it's really the size of the disks that killed HD-DVD..."

The size of the discs is irrelevant when you're speaking of movies. Both formats can hold your average full-length film at 1080p. Any space beyond that is wasted. Or do you really think people are going to choose a format because they can get a full season of 24 on 3 discs instead of 4?

As of now, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are essentially tied on total sales...and those total sales are far too small for either format to have any meaningful impact. The format war will be one when one camp gets prices cheap enough for the average consumer to think about buying. So far, neither side is close.


RE: This isn't too surprising.
By ATC on 2/28/2007 10:22:53 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why do people spread disinformation like this? Are you really so emotionally tied to Blu Ray? No one has "pulled support" for HD-DVD. In fact, a few smaller studios announced new HD-DVD support just last month, bringing the total to 19 (one more than Blu-Ray's 18).

Where do you get this info from? It goes against everything I've read. All major studios are now fully supporting Blu-Ray except for Warner, Paramount and Universal. But Paramount and Warner reversed their decision and now fully support Blu-Ray. Universal is the only studio that's supporting HD-DVD and I've read tens of reports from analysts that say it's already in the works that Universal is planning a change soon (in 2007).
quote:
The size of the discs is irrelevant when you're speaking of movies. Both formats can hold your average full-length film at 1080p. Any space beyond that is wasted. Or do you really think people are going to choose a format because they can get a full season of 24 on 3 discs instead of 4?

I disagree. People want a single solution, not one for movies and a different incompatible one for other stuff. What Toshiba's doing to squeeze 50GB out of HD-DVD, TDK has already done and shown with Blu-Ray to 200GB.

To me Blu-Ray is sitting on a boat while HD-DVD's head is under water sipping air through a straw. I'm sorry if you cannot see that Blu-Ray has already won. Maybe it wasn't the poster you replied to that has an emotional tie to BD but rather someone else to HD-DVD? ; )


RE: This isn't too surprising.
By masher2 (blog) on 2/28/2007 10:47:47 AM , Rating: 2
> "All major studios are now fully supporting Blu-Ray except for Warner, Paramount and Universal...[snip]"

Your statement is true, but it hardly implies those studios have "pulled support" for HD-DVD. Pretty much all the non-Sony studios are hedging their bets and supporting both formats.

As of today, according to DVD Empire, 19 studios have releases on HD-DVD, and 18 have releases on BR.

> "I disagree. People want a single solution."

This isn't true. DVD took off like a rocket for one reason and one reason only...movies. "Most people" will never even use the BD/HD-DVD-Rom formats. If and when they'll buy-- they'll buy for movies.

The fact is neither format is winning now, they're both losing . VHS (for gods sake) is still outselling them both. Combined. No one will "win" until they offer a $100 player AND movies that don't cost appreciably more than a standard DVD.

> "Maybe it wasn't the poster you replied to that has an emotional tie to BD but rather someone else to HD-DVD? ; ) "

I already own both formats (Toshiba HD-A2, Sony PS3). I don't have a tie to either camp.


RE: This isn't too surprising.
By CorrND on 2/28/2007 1:55:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No one will "win" until they offer a $100 player AND movies that don't cost appreciably more than a standard DVD.

Agreed on the player, but I disagree on the media. From what I've seen, the vast majority of discs for both formats are $20 to $25. In my opinion, that qualifies for "movies that don't cost appeciably more." When I went to buy my first HD-DVD, I was honestly surprised they weren't FAR more expensive.

It seems to me that the high cost of entry is the main thing keeping people away. I know we went crazy buying discs for the first couple weeks after buying the xbox HD-DVD drive because we were so surprised at their affordability.


RE: This isn't too surprising.
By masher2 (blog) on 2/28/2007 2:09:03 PM , Rating: 2
> "From what I've seen, the vast majority of discs for both formats are $20 to $25..."

I own both an HD-DVD and a BD player. When I go to purchase a new release, its usually available for $25 in one of the two formats...sometimes $29.99, and sometimes only as the HD-DVD "combo" format, which can be as high as $38. Contrast that to new release DVDs, which are usually in the $15-$20 range.

I consider myself a videophile, and I spend a few hundred a month on films. But I still buy some movies in DVD format, rather than paying the price-premium for Hi-def.


RE: This isn't too surprising.
By CorrND on 2/28/2007 2:53:32 PM , Rating: 2
I'd recommend checking out newegg. Their prices are a hell of a lot better than what you're quoting. Of course, you do have to wait on shipping, but it's free on all discs.

Personally, I get mine from B&M Fry's and they've all been $20 or $25. There are a few that cost $30, but I've been staying away from those.


RE: This isn't too surprising.
By leexgx on 2/28/2007 2:03:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Or do you really think people are going to choose a format because they can get a full season of 24 on 3 discs instead of 4?


yes well if the files are 700mb each you can get 1 season on an disk or if i used the lower qulity ones that i norm have for disk space resones 350mb vers you can just fit 3 seasons on 1 Blu-ray disk and thats single layer


RE: This isn't too surprising.
By CorrND on 2/28/2007 2:14:44 PM , Rating: 2
HD content is approximately 6.8GB/hr, so a 42 minute episode of a TV show is more like 4.8GB. That allows up to 10 episodes per Blu-ray disc or 6 episodes per HD-DVD disc. Those limits work out to 3 Blu-ray discs or 4 HD-DVDs for a 24-episode season, which is what I think they were implying.


name is better
By Souka on 2/27/2007 10:06:14 PM , Rating: 1
"Blue-Ray" just sounds better on the lips than "HD-DVD"

Also I see much more advertising for movies... "now on DVD and BLue-Ray" or "DVD, HD-DVD, and Blue-Ray"

I don't t I've seen a single advertisisment stating "DVD and HD-DVD" with no mention of BLue-Ray




RE: name is better
By Crowbar77 on 2/27/2007 10:17:19 PM , Rating: 3
Not really, alot of people still don't have any idea what Blu- Ray is. HD DVD on the other hand is pretty easy to understand.


RE: name is better
By ElJefe69 on 2/27/2007 11:37:58 PM , Rating: 1
er no.

no one in ny conn or nj has any idea what a hd-dvd is. they call up for Blu-Ray's. Why? because it is the most elite and people who buy that stuff want that. hd-dvd has not been a request at the private store I work at for a solid year.


RE: name is better
By BladeVenom on 2/27/2007 11:00:39 PM , Rating: 2
I like the sound of Beta-ray Laser Discs. Reminds me of two failed formats, which I still think may happen to Blu-ray.


RE: name is better
By Scabies on 2/27/2007 11:25:49 PM , Rating: 1
this year's blu-ray... next year is red-ray
And HD-DVD? Bad marketing, not enough repeated letters in the name to be catchy, so its being replaced by HHD-DVVDD-BVD


RE: name is better
By timmiser on 2/27/2007 11:41:02 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you that Blue Ray is pulling away but I think it only sounds catchy because they have been doing the advertising and store displays too. In retrospect, it looks like Sony is now going to win this war thanks to the PS3, superior advertising, movie availability, a lower priced 1080p player, and availability of BD burners.

HD-DVD only has going for it the superior menu/content option and cheaper 1080i players.


RE: name is better
By daftrok on 2/27/2007 11:57:58 PM , Rating: 2
Hollywoodland commercial was on a couple days ago..


Surprised
By lakingsgeek on 2/27/2007 9:05:36 PM , Rating: 2
I'm surprised at how little the difference is. Based on what i've heard around various message boards i thought that Blue Ray was starting to pull away, but in reality they only just took the lead, and barely.

The PS3 and new titles are probably the biggest reason BD has taken the lead. But who's to say all those PS3 owners who bought a BD title or two just to see what the fuss was about will continue to buy more HD movies. I'm sure plenty of the casual DVD watchers don't think it looks much better than a regular DVD and won't even buy another title.

Even though i was a HD-DVD supporter in the beginning because of price i just wish one format would just pull ahead and be done with it. I thought BD was gonna do it soon but apparently that isn't so.




RE: Surprised
By afkrotch on 2/27/2007 9:26:14 PM , Rating: 2
I personally don't care if one wins over the other. As long as movies come out for both formats, I'm fine. I have a PS3 and the only blu-ray features I use of it, is the games.


RE: Surprised
By ncage on 2/27/2007 9:49:17 PM , Rating: 2
I like you wanted HDDVD to win....but unlike you i still hold this stance because of price. OK with your comment about HighDef DVD to not look that much better. Since i have never watched a high def dvd yet because i refuse to pay the premium for an earlier adopter i have never seen one but if they have done a good job with the movies and they look as good as high def cable does then there is a DEFINITE difference if you have the equipment to support it. Sure if you have a standard tv then you won't see this. I have a 50in plasma that looks awesome with high def. I am waiting for prices for players to come down to about the $300 mark before i make the move and for one standard to be the winner. Hopefully its not like the whole -r/+r stuff when had to deal with on DVDs


RE: Surprised
By ani4ani on 2/28/2007 4:51:04 PM , Rating: 2
Bluray has only just taken the lead, i.e. since the launch of HD DVD was a good 6 months ahead of Bluray, and that lead has gone. Instantaneously, Bluray is almost outselling HD DVD 3:1. Here in Europe, another 1M PS3's will be sold in the next month and that gap will widen again. With regards to HD DVD studio support, one European studio that was HD DVD exclusive [Canal] has just announced Bluray support.

Even as poor as the PS3 is supposed to be doing, everyday devices that can play Bluray outsell HD DVD playing devices 6:1


RE: Surprised
By masher2 (blog) on 2/28/2007 5:37:35 PM , Rating: 2
> "Instantaneously, Bluray is almost outselling HD DVD 3:1."

Not true...Nielsen's original figures were flawed (read above for why this is true).

According to the latest weekly data from DVD Empire, BD is selling 56%, HD-DVD, 44%. Earlier in the year, BD was selling much better, but they've been dropping as the PS3 spike evens out.


Interesting!
By wind79 on 2/27/2007 9:41:42 PM , Rating: 3
Before the PS3 launch, BD-DVD is way behind sales as compared to HD-DVD. It only took Bluray 2 months to gain a lead and its very impressive. The only thing left now is will there be many more people buying those PS3 and Bluray Discs?

If PS3 sales keeps on boosting, Bluray will most likely be the victor. I am crossing my fingers, but if the HD-DVD player is built-in onto those xbox360s and sold at an affordable price, that's where we get to see a great battle! I will not attach an additional external hardware on any gaming consoles found in my living room as it just look plain ugly.




RE: Interesting!
By AlexWade on 2/28/2007 8:05:21 AM , Rating: 2
Problem is, HD DVD hasn't pulled out the heavy hitters yet. When they do, expect this number to the other direction. Really, expect it see-saw back and forth for months. Blu-Ray has a lot more movies, a lot more players, and it still barely outsells HD DVD. Make no mistake, this is a bad thing for Blu-Ray, because Sony has already declared themselves the winner and they market the name more and they have a ton more movies, yet they can barely outsell HD DVD.

Some of the neutral studios favor HD DVD. Where is Batman Begins on Blu-Ray? Because Blu-Ray doesn't support picture-in-picture like HD DVD or the early players don't have the interactivity like HD DVD, you are seeing some quality movies be HD DVD only for now.

Honestly, like so many other people, the only thing keeping me out of Blu-Ray is the price of the players. $500 is still too much. $200 for an add-on was possible for me. But I cannot put down $500 or $1000. And I don't use credit cards anymore.


RE: Interesting!
By deeznuts on 2/28/2007 1:08:26 PM , Rating: 2
AlexWade, what are the HD DVD Heavy Hitters? I think only Universal is HD DVD only, out of all the studios. (I might be wrong on Universal, but I do recall only one studio being HD DVD exclusive).

quote:
Blu-Ray has a lot more movies, a lot more players, and it still barely outsells HD DVD. Make no mistake, this is a bad thing for Blu-Ray, because Sony has already declared themselves the winner and they market the name more and they have a ton more movies, yet they can barely outsell HD DVD.
You fail to take into account that HD DVD came onto the market many months before Blu-Ray. And this report is "since inception." The Blu-Ray market didn't even really begin until PS3 came out, yeah there were players before that but no push until the PS3, and Blu-Ray has caught up, made up the several month lead-time HD DVD had. That is significant.


RE: Interesting!
By masher2 (blog) on 2/28/2007 1:15:15 PM , Rating: 2
> "That is significant..."

You fail to acknowledge that the numbers posted by both camps are far too small to be significant at all. The #1 selling film for January for both formats sold a grand total of 7500 units. 7500! That's not a worldwide presence...its not even the population of a small town in Northern Montana.

BD and HD-DVD combined are being outsold by VHS, outsold even by the "failed" format of UMD PSP movies. Right now, neither side is winning. They're both losing.


Left unsaid...
By masher2 (blog) on 2/28/2007 12:00:11 AM , Rating: 2
Left unsaid is that, as of January at least, HD-DVD and Blu Ray combined were still being outsold by the ancient VHS format. The finish line in the format war is still a very, very long ways away....neither format is selling anywhere near as well as its backers expected.




RE: Left unsaid...
By timmiser on 2/28/2007 3:08:13 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe true, but I don't think any of the backers thought a $1000 BD player and a $500 HDDVD player were really going to sell like hotcakes. Heck, between $500 and $1000 is probably the average price of the HD TV.


RE: Left unsaid...
By staypuff69 on 2/28/2007 3:37:26 AM , Rating: 2
And this little combination blueray and hddvd drive is really gonna keep this competition going for awhile.....

http://us.lge.com/products/model/detail/tv%7Caudio...

Oh and for those people worrying about 1080i and 1080p take a look side by side as i have there's little to no difference..... just a different way of creating the resolution.....


RE: Left unsaid...
By timmiser on 2/28/2007 3:59:08 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, but at $1300 what's the point of a dual format player when you can buy both of the individual players and have lots of money left over.


Nielsen numbers
By spranger on 2/28/2007 2:56:54 PM , Rating: 2
I am the reporter who wrote this story for Home Media Magazine. The numbers include HD DVD/DVD combo discs in the sales, so Blu-ray disc sales beat out HD DVD EVEN WITH THOSE NUMBERS INCLUDED. Blu-ray disc sales also beat out HD DVD even though HD DVD had a few months headstart. On the other hand, in my story, the Universal executive noted that one would think Blu-ray disc should be selling even more considering its hardware advantage. To read my story and future updates on this issue see homemediamagazine.com.




RE: Nielsen numbers
By masher2 (blog) on 2/28/2007 3:04:33 PM , Rating: 2
> "I am the reporter who wrote this story for Home Media Magazine..."

If you are, you certainly didn't score any points with the above post, which reads more like a diehard Blu Ray fanatic, rather than an objective journalist.


RE: Nielsen numbers
By spranger on 3/2/2007 3:03:09 PM , Rating: 2
What exactly did I write that is not a fact attributed to either Nielsen or Universal? I covered both sides of the issue, if you bothered to read the original story. I did not report my opinion. I merely reported the fact that Nielsen numbers show Blu-ray has caught up with HD DVD even though HD DVD had several months headstart. That is a fact, not an opinion. I thought the Universal source (an HD DVD supporter) had a good point that, considering the Blu-ray hardware advantage, Blu-ray software sales should be even more impressive. HOWEVER, I did not assert that, the Universal source did and I attributed it to him. Every opinion is attributed in the piece.

In posting, I merely wanted to correct a misconception on this board the the HD DVD numbers don't include HD DVD/DVD combos discs. They do, and if you receive our magazine in which this story runs next to a chart, that fact is clearly indicated.


The fight isn't over yet.
By VIAN on 2/27/2007 10:44:52 PM , Rating: 1
I support HD DVD. HD DVD still may be able to win here. Although the chances are now slimmer than before. With the PS3's BluRay outselling HD DVD players; and the fact that Sony will also be cutting down the prices of its standalone BluRay. This is will make it really tough.

But if Toshiba lowers the price of its HD DVD players even further. Then it could still come out on top. If it's able to sell an HD DVD player for 300 bucks, it could be a possible turnaround.

We'll have to see. If it looks hopeless for HD DVD, then I'll buy a PS3 for the BluRay capability. But until then HD DVD can still turn it around.




RE: The fight isn't over yet.
By Kurgie on 2/28/2007 12:58:32 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft should just release a new version of the 360 that sells for the same price and includes built-in HD-DVD.


Not surprised in the slightest
By R3MF on 2/28/2007 7:15:08 AM , Rating: 3
good for Blu-ray, i may well buy a PS3 one day.......... if sony provide that Linux PPC driver for the nVidia GPU so that i can have accelerated graphics in Linux on my PS3.




The price of DVD?
By Quryous on 2/28/2007 1:34:26 PM , Rating: 2
Radio Shack has a VERY capable sd DVD player for $29.99. Walmart sells DVDs from $1.00 up.

It is going to be a while before I even bother to price HV DVD or Blu Rae (yes, I know how to spell it).




daft posting system
By leexgx on 2/27/2007 11:31:15 PM , Rating: 1
Wank posting system this is

realy need to fix it i lost what i posted this time

1 it move to the subject line when starting to type
2 that opps error thats probly going to happen agane when i post this

grr

unlike DVD-R and DVD+R that was basicly the same disks

HD-dvd and Blu-ray are not , apart from the video thats going to be stored on them the extra 10gb give the blu-ray disks better options for more video that we probly never watch but on the back up line gives you lots more options and more so for home video editing or converting your TV stuff onto one of these disks

allso HD-dvd needs to use 3 layers to make 51gb(1gb more) and that will most likey not work in any player that is around been sold at this time
Blu-ray does 50gb with just 2 layers and that will work in all players

if it was any one but sony that made blu-ray format it probly take off faster it may take off faster or we just end up with an hybrid drive in the end and the customer can pick on what size or what the player needs but Blu-ray does have the size on its side so the HD-dvd disks needs to be priced alot lower

id be ranting at EA for makeing games that get worse every time thay make an patch (the dreaded 1.3 patchs for there games seem untested)

to bad we get riped off here when thay get sold in the uk as thay sell at the same price as $ US money + thay lack PS2 support and other things




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