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Blog: Gadgets Blu-ray Player Prices NOT Rising
Steven Kippel - March 13, 2008 4:17 PM
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Contrary to what you've read in the blogsphere, the cost of Blu-ray players has not increased since the demise of HD DVD

This blog was first published on WesleyTech.com.

For some reason, several blogs are writing stories about how Blu-ray player prices have risen since the demise of HD DVD. This is ridiculous. The information is gathered from popular price engines for this story.

Let’s look at this for a minute. It’s being reported that the average cost of the Sony BDP-S300 is $405. This is above MSRP, set by Sony at $399. One retailer lists it for $445 (above the list price), and the rest are at MSRP or below. This is throwing off the average.

We also have to consider that many retailers are not authorized retailers for the product they’re selling. Authorized retailers (Circuit City, Crutchfield, Best Buy, etc.) list the Sony player at MSRP of $399 - as is correct. No Blu-ray player manufacturer has increased the MSRP of their players.

If retailers were selling below retail previously (and authorized ones do not or they will lose their relationship with the company), it was not do to competition against HD DVD. These retailers weren’t on the Blu-ray side trying to compete against Toshiba, they were also selling Toshiba players. Competition between formats would have been championed by the manufacturers, and they did not just now raise their list price. The MSRP now is the same as the beginning of the year.

Consider this my civic duty, exposing the fraud put out on blogs to stir up controversy and gain hits for their advertisers.

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Article
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 3/13/2008 4:45:00 PM , Rating: 3
The article Steven refers to is here:

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36428/113/

The flagrant error of using non-consistent data went overlooked even when commenters mentioned it.




RE: Article
By Fnoob on 3/13/2008 7:16:59 PM , Rating: 2
In a virtual rocks/paper/scissors : "non-consistent data" always loses to "agenda driven schelp".


RE: Article
By IGoodwin on 3/13/2008 7:23:29 PM , Rating: 2
Not wanting be difficult, but it come naturally.

Although Sony does list the price on there web site as $399. A quick trim to Amazon shows it for sale for less; however, the list price is $499.


RE: Article
By MrTeal on 3/13/2008 7:38:39 PM , Rating: 2
Sony lists the MSRP as $399, and Amazon sells it at $384. Just because they have an old price of $499 with a line through it doesn't mean the units are retailing for 500 bucks, it means Amazon is trying to convince people they're saving 22% when they could buy it for close to the same price anywhere.

A local jewelery shop up here is advertising gold jewelery being 85% off right now. Great value? Not really, it's always 75-85% off, 365 days a year. The inflated list price is just a selling feature for the gullible.


RE: Article
By SilthDraeth on 3/15/2008 3:16:19 AM , Rating: 2
That local jewelry shop wouldn't happen to be a Kmart would it?


RE: Article
By therealnickdanger on 3/13/2008 7:30:16 PM , Rating: 2
In fact, I just picked up a Samsung UP5000 because it DROPPED in price by $300 at Best Buy ($500)! It does Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, and upconverts like a champ thanks to the HQV REON. My only gripe is the failure of it to properly decode TrueHD, but that will (presumeably) come as a firmware update in May.


RE: Article
By EglsFly on 3/13/2008 9:50:04 PM , Rating: 3
Uh, yea, cause Mark Raby wrote the article!
He is VERY PRO HD-DVD to the point that he promotes FALSE information about the whole HD format war. This is the same person that wrote an article trying to persuade people that the war was still up for grabs and in a dead heat AFTER the Warner announcement.


RE: Article
By bill3 on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: Article
By tallcool1 on 3/14/2008 10:53:45 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
How much does Sony pay you guys anyway?

Do you ACTUALLY read the DT articles???
I have got to believe you are joking, because some of the DT editors where definately pulling for HD-DVD and don't hesitate to bash Sony when given the opportunity. Some of which was deserved. (ie, rootkits)

Here are a few qoutes from DT Editor "MK" to prove my point:
quote:
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/20/2007 6:29:34 PM , Rating: 1
Transformers will be absolutely sexy in high def. I just bought an HD-A20 last week... and now this... haha theres a gamble that paid off quite well.
Side note... HD DVD FTW!

By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/21/2007 8:10:12 AM , Rating: 2
I hope your willing to pay up as Transformers will never be on Blu-Ray, anything to the contrary is wishful thinking.

By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/21/2007 7:14:37 AM , Rating: 2
Remember those words when more studio's switch to HD DVD exclusive.


RE: Article
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 3/15/2008 10:51:05 PM , Rating: 2
Just as a clarification, Master Kenobi is just a blogger, not an editor.


RE: Article
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 3/16/2008 11:29:20 PM , Rating: 2
Aye, not an editor, sorry to take the wind out of yer shot at DT :P

Btw, the quotes you so selectively picked, all pre-dated the Warner switch, so given the time frame and all factors present at the time, theres nothing unrealistic about them.


RE: Article
By EglsFly on 3/16/2008 12:54:50 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/21/2007 7:14:37 AM , Rating: 2
Remember those words when more studio's switch to HD DVD exclusive.

LOL!
How's that working out for you Kenobi?


RE: Article
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 3/16/2008 11:27:43 PM , Rating: 4
Meh. I pulled for HD, I have no regrets. Some things are outside the control of the consumer, in this game it was high stakes played out on the top level of the electronics and media industries. My projections (and that of many others) were based in logic that was based on determining factors at the time. If you will carefully check the date stamp on the references quotes, that was during the time frame that Paramount/Dreamworks went HD Exclusive, and that momemtum was rolling merrily along until January when Warner went Blu. Up until the Warner switch, everything was still on the table for both sides.


RE: Article
By OMGBS LIES on 3/15/2008 3:37:44 PM , Rating: 2
someone has to pay the WB deal off... and it wont be sony.... bluboys will and brag about it too...


PS3
By Fnoob on 3/13/2008 9:01:23 PM , Rating: 2
Do any of the 'dedicated' ~$400 players offer any video quality improvement over the PS3, or merely features? While I really don't need one, I am having a hard time not considering buying a PS3 unless they offer somehow inferior video playback.




RE: PS3
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 3/13/2008 9:43:57 PM , Rating: 2
PS3 lacks in the sound options department, compared to some of the other stand alones. Video quality is the same across the board.


RE: PS3
By Moishe on 3/14/2008 8:35:46 AM , Rating: 2
What kind of differences are there in the sound? Are we talking just missing codecs like TrueHD and DTS_HD?


RE: PS3
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 3/14/2008 9:31:41 AM , Rating: 2
Not the "difference" but the problems with. Yea, lack of some codecs gets lumped into it, but theres also a sizeable number of people reporting audio problems when pairing the PS3 with some older recievers, specific codecs dont work at all and others have problems (I think it has something to do with bitstreaming). Doesn't seem to be an issue for anyone with a modern setup though. My recently purchased Sony DW995 sound system does just fine.


RE: PS3
By EglsFly on 3/13/2008 9:52:56 PM , Rating: 2
Actually the PS3 is probably the best blu-ray player "currently" available. It has the most powerful processor compared to stand alone players and results in faster time to playback.


RE: PS3
By mmntech on 3/14/2008 11:47:44 AM , Rating: 2
I don't know if I'd call it the best overall but it's certainly the best value. Plays games, stores movies and music, streams media, web enabled, fully upgradable to future Blu-ray standards. The others have a valid point about the audio though.

There is a huge push to force the HDMI standard. While that's ok for people just buying a home theater, the issue comes with people who already own one. Audio has pretty much reached it's peak in the quality it can deliver and if you do have a 10 year old receiver like me, there's little sense in upgrading. That's why stand alone players make sense because they're more backwards compatible. The PS3 though is an entry level BD player so it is going to lack some features on the hardware end. Fortunately the PS3 does allow you to mix and match audio and video standards.


RE: PS3
By DingieM on 3/14/2008 9:19:31 AM , Rating: 2
PS3 is no option for me because my (very good) receiver only supports 6 discrete analogue audio inputs. So I will depend on stand-alone players that have at least 6 DACS to convert Dolby TrueHD or equivalent audio class into analogue.
Pretty good option because then I can listen to the full glory of HD sound with an almost 10 year old receiver. Sound is directly passed to the speakers


Consider this MY civic duty...
By xphile on 3/14/2008 6:02:09 AM , Rating: 5
to point out that to 99.9% of all the retail market you are quibbling over nothing. $399 or 6 dollars more than $399 means ZERO to me and almost everyone but you. We are not going to buy a unit that JUST PLAYS anything in this day and age for a whopping $399.

When the retail is $99 and some ahole is trying to fleece you for $150 come make your point - in the meantime the market segment buying $399 players don't care if they paid $399 or 1399 - they just get to tell their friends how cool they are they have something their friends do not.

Like at least four people I know that said I was crazy not buying the great cheap Toshiba HD-DVD player when it was $250 less expensive than a Sony BR. They now have a brick, and the apparently "smart" BR buyers spent $1000 to be the winner of the argument.

It's all one big pi$$ing match nobody with any sense wants to go anywhere near yet.




RE: Consider this MY civic duty...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 3/14/2008 3:28:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
They now have a brick, and the apparently "smart" BR buyers spent $1000 to be the winner of the argument.

I think part of the fallacy of this argument is that the HD DVD players will magically stop working. Chances are they will continue to work as very good DVD upscaler, and HD DVD player for any HD DVD movies they had acquired, and will continue to work great for many years to come. It just means the HD DVD supporters who spent $250 will now turn around and spend $300-400 more to get a BR player eventually, which combined is only 550 or 650, a far cry from the $1000 those BR supporters had to pay to win :)

(Granted I am simply using your rounded numbers, the real totals are probably all over the place)


RE: Consider this MY civic duty...
By EglsFly on 3/16/08, Rating: 0
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 3/16/2008 11:31:14 PM , Rating: 2
I used the numbers specified by the previous poster, see disclaimer at the bottom of my post.


RE: Consider this MY civic duty...
By timmiser on 3/17/2008 8:44:24 PM , Rating: 3
What is amazing to me is that the death of HD-DVD format has caused my HD-DVD library to explode! A $49.99 purchase of an X-Box HD-DVD which comes with 6 HD-DVD movies is a pretty decent deal and add the $9.86 HD-DVDs on Amazon, I am quite happy with this so-called dead format. I've got about 20 HD-DVDs that I haven't even taken the wrappers off yet so my movie viewing schedule in hi-def is booked up for weeks.

HD-DVD is dead. Long live HD-DVD!


RE: Consider this MY civic duty...
By Spuke on 3/14/2008 6:35:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
They now have a brick, and the apparently "smart" BR buyers spent $1000 to be the winner of the argument.
My HD DVD player still works just fine. I just watched Italian Job last night. Plan on watching the Fountain tonight.


no but..
By omnicronx on 3/14/2008 11:35:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
For some reason, several blogs are writing stories about how Blu-ray player prices have risen since the demise of HD DVD.
I have also yet to see an increase in BD player prices.. BUT! Since January in Canada, I have yet to see a sale price of more than 50 dollars, and prices have still yet to fall since the beginning of January. Before this point, we had at least seen some price drops, with players slowly reaching the 400 dollar mark (in canada). Now prices are stagnent, which makes me wonder if the BD manufacturers are specifically trying to keep BD as a niche market.




RE: no but..
By blackseed on 3/14/2008 12:10:18 PM , Rating: 4
IMO, Sony is trying to delay the price drop as much as posible because of PS3 sales. Sony wants you to buy a PS3 rather than a BR player so that they can put a machine in your living room (install base)

The price of BR is stagnant and needs a competition from somewhere else to get it to drop.


RE: no but..
By molgenit on 3/18/2008 8:36:10 AM , Rating: 2
My guess is they will try to delay the release of newer movies on regular DVD to "push" BR. No one will stop regular DVD production in favor of BR it would be FAR too costly. They have to do something or its adaption will be VERY slow indeed. Both TV and player prices have to drop for mass acceptance. The hi def market is still in its infancy compared to the standard market and most still view TV as a commodity product and as such are not willing to pay a premium. That will change but slowly.


The state of the dollar
By graynote on 3/15/2008 5:18:14 AM , Rating: 3
First off: English is not my native tounge, so please pardon my grammar end spelling :-)

Everything (imported goods, that is) sold in the U.S. NOT increasing in price should really be considered DROPPING in price taking into account the plummeting value of the dollar.

The dollar is at it's all time low compared to the rest of the worlds currencies. While off course great for the US export i DOES affect inflation.

So, really, the non-rising prices of the Xbox360, PS3, BR-players and so on makes them cheaper than ever..

Being from Denmark i personally love it - I get cheap everything from America! At a greater scheme, though, it sucks for us - in effect we sell everything at at 40% discount compared to the 2002 dollar value.

2002: 1 USD = 8.25 DKK
2003: 1 USD = 7.10 DKK
2004: 1 USD = 6.25 DKK
2005: 1 USD = 6.25 DKK
2006: 1 USD = 6.00 DKK
2007: 1 USD = 5.75 DKK
2008: 1 USD = 5.15 DKK
Today 1 USD = 4.79 DKK

(the DKK's tied to the euro so it's not just the DKK increasing it's value)

Out of curiosity: Besides the obvious effect en prices on crude oil (rising from ~USD 35 to ~USD 110 in the past years), how much has the cost of things risen over there?

I know lots of non-US companies has taken a beating due to the dollar value, which implies little or no rise in their prices when trading with US customers, so I'm not sure which kind of impact it has on US citizens.

Regards
graynote




RE: The state of the dollar
By SandmanWN on 3/17/2008 10:02:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Out of curiosity: Besides the obvious effect en prices on crude oil (rising from ~USD 35 to ~USD 110 in the past years), how much has the cost of things risen over there?

Other than gas, not much. It costs $4-5 for milk today just as it did in 2002. We produce most of all the major components that keep us alive like food and building materials. When times like this happen we just buy less stuff from overseas or we rotate to secondary sources which we still have favorable currency buying power.

quote:
I know lots of non-US companies has taken a beating due to the dollar value, which implies little or no rise in their prices when trading with US customers, so I'm not sure which kind of impact it has on US citizens.

The import companies are taking a beating, but on the other side of the coin the export companies are having pie and cake on a daily basis. It works both ways you know. :)


Blu-ray Player Prices NOT Rising
By Fnoob on 3/13/2008 7:13:35 PM , Rating: 2
Clearly this is a slap in the face of capitalism.... or demand hasn't increased, much. One or the other.




By Roy2001 on 3/14/2008 1:23:08 PM , Rating: 2
Wow what a favor that they do not raise the price.




By mindless1 on 3/17/2008 11:47:16 PM , Rating: 2
The cost is rising, over what it would have been in a normal market where we expected the cost of BD players to drop already. Once you assume the inevitable that the price of tech decreases after it's initial entry into a market, we do see the price is artificially higher than it would've been. The cost is rising relative to the value of the tech even if not rising in an absolute # of dollars sense.




$299.99 SONY Xmass sale to blame
By rupaniii on 3/18/2008 11:26:19 PM , Rating: 2
Everyone's thinking that they dropped to $299.99 and went back up after HDDVD died. Not so, Sony ran an awesome sale the last half of December on the S300, and Panasonic and Samsung had to match it on certain key days. That went back up before the 31st of December I recall. BluRay player prices have not budged. But, never let the truth stand in the way of the "I'm right!" Consumer Driven Urban Legend engine. The world's all wrong after all.




Kind of full of your self?
By molgenit on 3/14/08, Rating: -1
RE: Kind of full of your self?
By geddarkstorm on 3/14/2008 12:57:13 PM , Rating: 2
The fraud was in the reporting, not what the businesses were doing. They outright lied in the report, trying to say BR was increasing in price dramatically when it hadn't at all. This is about journalistic integrity, not business practices.


RE: Kind of full of your self?
By killerroach on 3/17/2008 9:24:42 AM , Rating: 2
Trying to associate TGDaily with "journalistic integrity" might be part of the issue there... it's the online tech world's equivalent of tabloid journalism.


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