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High-def hardware sales during the first two weeks of January  (Source: Digital Bits)

High-def hardware sales during December and January  (Source: Digital Bits)
Blu-ray Disc charges ahead in sales charts following Warner Bros. announcement

Consumers who were on the fence regarding which high-definition format they should support may have been swayed by Warner Bros.’ decision to side with Blu-ray Disc.

Data from research firm NPD Group, as displayed by Digital Bits, show Blu-ray Disc taking the lion’s share of the high-definition hardware sales. Sale throughout December saw nearly 40 percent of players be HD DVD, eventually climbing in the first week of January to nearly 49 percent.

In the week immediately following Warner’s pro-Blu-ray Disc announcement, Blu-ray Disc player sales took over the charts with nearly 93 percent of hardware sales. It’s important to note that the sales breakdown between hardware of the two formats do not include the sales of PlayStation 3 or the Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on drive.

A similar trend appeared in software sales following CES 2008. According to numbers from Nielsen, Blu-ray Disc sales were 85 percent of the high-definition split, which represented the largest gulf yet between the two formats.

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% of what?
By jkresh on 1/24/2008 12:14:41 AM , Rating: 1
Having >90% of sales for a week is big but it depends on how many drives were sold that week. Warner going blueray definitely had an impact and it may be that blueray will win (though I still think hybrid players will end up being a least a short term solution), but without having total sales numbers the percentages are somewhat meaning less. I am also curious to see what the numbers are now that Toshiba has dropped the price so much on their drives and what kind of impact that has had.




RE: % of what?
By Gio6518 on 1/24/2008 12:21:12 AM , Rating: 4
hmmmmmmmmmmmm it is showing their impact of the new pricing

lots of stores have been marking HD-DVD players down with the new price along with a clearance sign, not planning to replenish their stock.

and with BLU-RAY discs sales jumping from a 2-3 to 1 lead to the current 5-6 to 1 lead, I don't see anymore future to HD-DVD


RE: % of what?
By jpeyton on 1/24/2008 8:23:16 PM , Rating: 5
Game over.

I own two HD DVD players and even I know there are only so many weeks of Blu-Ray hardware/software domination that Toshiba/Paramount/Universal can take before they submit.

HD DVD will be a footnote in the pages of history by the end of 2008. Guaranteed.


RE: % of what?
By ChristopherO on 1/24/2008 12:46:13 AM , Rating: 3
I for one ran out and bought a Samsung BD-UP5000 that week. I was unsure of Blu Ray's future (I wanted to know which way WB would break since their decision to go exclusive to one of the formats was inevitable).

I'm sure there were a lot of other die-hard A/V fans in the same position. Once the initial rush is over the numbers will probably get a bit closer. HD DVD saw a similar spike after Paramount moved over.

As for universal players the Samsung BD-UP5500 is on its way (May 2008)! That will be the first entry-level combo player and should street for less than $500. That's almost a bargain considering entry level Blu players are 300-400.

I love the 5000. I can insert any media and it doesn't care... That's the way home theater should be! At this point I couldn't care less if either format wins since I'll be able to handle both.

I'd rather both formats stick around then condemn some group of supporters to own a dead format.


RE: % of what?
By Gio6518 on 1/24/2008 1:40:13 AM , Rating: 2
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/23/the-samsung-b...

The Samsung BD-UP5000 to be discontinued in May
Posted Jan 23rd 2008 12:05PM by Ben Drawbaugh
Filed under: Blu-ray, HD DVD, Samsung

While we've become accustomed to Blu-ray players being released every six months, it's a little ridiculous when we're forced to wait for a new player longer than it's on the market. Eventually we expect the cycle to slow down -- like when BD Live players are out for example -- and many believed that the Samsung BD-UP5000 could be one of those players based on promises when announced. Once you have an Ethernet port for internet content, REON video processing, internal decoding and bitstream support for every codec, discrete analog output, as well as HDMI 1.3, what else could possibly warrant a mid year revamp? We suspect the problem is that the player isn't delivering, and on top of that, we don't think it's Samsung's fault. You see, just like the LG BH200, the BD-UP5000 is based on Broadcom's Reference design BCM97440, and the word on the street is that it isn't ever going to deliver. So it'd make sense that Sammy would change the platform for one that's actually able to get the job done. So yeah, this Broadcom bit is just speculation, but we did contact the outfit to figure out what the deal was, and while it was very responsive at first, as soon as we asked about the troubles with the BCM97400, it must'a lost our email address (or maybe its servers have been down for a week). The good news is that Samsung doesn't see the BD-UP5500 as a replacement, and promises a suitable replacement for the high-end dual-format customer in the second half of '08.


RE: % of what?
By bplewis24 on 1/24/2008 2:15:00 AM , Rating: 2
You probably won't see many dual-format players anymore because of these broadcom issues.

Brandon


RE: % of what?
By ChristopherO on 1/24/2008 3:52:29 AM , Rating: 2
The Samsung 5000 is fine. I'm not sure why I'm supposed to worry about an Endgadget link for a device I own, that works fine for what I use it for.

Maybe it's not doing profile 2.0, but I wouldn't use those features anyway. It's handling my audio just fine and HDi works just as well as the Toshiba HD DVD player I replaced. After the latest firmware update all the discs I insert seem to be fine.

The 5500 is also rumored to be firmware compatible with the 5000... Which will ensure that the player gets supported for an adequate amount of time.

The 6500 (replacement for the 5000) comes out for Christmas of 2008. I wasn't going to wait that long since I could in theory have waited forever for something better.


RE: % of what?
By Belard on 1/24/2008 4:40:05 AM , Rating: 2
With about 100,000 HD-DVD players in the wild... don't have hopes for a dual format player.

If there were... millions of HD-DVD players, then more likly. There is way to few people with HD-DVD, and many of those people are not going to be buying more movies.


RE: % of what?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/24/2008 8:55:02 AM , Rating: 3
Well, you won't see me buying a Blu-Ray player until they release one that works with the latest BR Spec >.< Sorry but not gonna purchase one just to find out later I have to replace it to be compatable with the latest BR spec. GG Moving specifications.


RE: % of what?
By Shoal07 on 1/24/2008 9:21:10 AM , Rating: 2
PS3?

No matter how much people don't want to count it, it is well regarded as the best Bluray player out there. The options for output are enough for any AV nut (speaking as one) and it is 2.0 compliant. I, as many others, bought this as our standalone blueray players based on the fact it was (and is) the best (not to mention after 1.6 or something it went from a good upconverter to an amazing one). Iceing on the cake is that it's a media center as good as any other, to include the 360, for streaming content from ANY windows machine (my WHS, MCE Laptop, or XP Pro boxes). And it's not a bitch to connect to them either (unlike the 360).

Oh, it plays games too, but I don't really use it for that, I have a 360.


RE: % of what?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/24/2008 9:35:38 AM , Rating: 1
No thanks, I will wait for a real stand alone player. PS3 is a console.


RE: % of what?
By BansheeX on 1/24/2008 9:52:26 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
PS3 is a console.


It's both... worried about profile updates and new fluff features? Get a PS3. The end, Kenobi. If you want a rectangle you don't reject the square because it's a rectangle, too. If you want to say something doesn't exist or isn't possible based on weird personal categorical preferences, that's your prerogative, but you should have noted this in your first post instead of making people reply to correct you as though they were supposed to know.


RE: % of what?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/24/2008 10:07:42 AM , Rating: 1
No, you just have your classifications backwards. So let's have a brief lesson.

PS3 is a game console. It possesses the capability to play Blu-Ray movies, but that is not the primary function (as much as Sony might want you to believe otherwise).

X360 is a game console. It possesses the capability to play HD DVD movies when an add-on drive is added.

iPhone is a cell phone. It possesses the capability to play music. It's primary function is to make and recieve calls.

End lesson. (Moral- Integration is not always a good thing)

Just because something "can" do something, does not mean it is an ideal device. PS3 does not have a standard IR remote nor can I get it to work with my existing remote. Don't bother mentioning the Bluetooth remote that can be purchased separately as this won't turn the PS3 on when it's in hibernate or (preferably) turned off when not in use. Thanks but no thanks. I will hold out for a BR 2.0 spec player from a reputable manufacturer with a track record for not screwing consumers at every corner (Read: Not Sony).


RE: % of what?
By BansheeX on 1/24/2008 11:10:53 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
No, you just have your classifications backwards. So let's have a brief lesson.

PS3 is a game console. It possesses the capability to play Blu-Ray movies, but that is not the primary function (as much as Sony might want you to believe otherwise).


The PS3 is marketed as a console with blu-ray playback being one of its features. Because that feature is marketed as a secondary function does not automatically imply inferiority to a device which has it as its primary. And if you buy it as a blu-ray player and use it solely for such, it becomes a player to you. It doesn't matter what it was marketed as or what its market classification is. If I buy a baseball bat to use as a club, and it's just as good or better of a club as clubs marketed as clubs, then it makes no difference what it was sold as BECAUSE I AM USING IT AS A CLUB. WHY DO YOU HAVE A BLOG ON THIS SITE??

Let me correct your first post:

"Well, you won't see me buying a Blu-Ray player until they release one that works with the latest BR Spec." <-Incorrect

"Yeah, I personally care very much about PiP and java mini games, and am very picky about remotes, so I would need a player that has both an IR remote and upgradeable profiles and is not classified foremost as a console since I also have a hangup with players possessing other functions, so until that happens I'm not going to be buying a blu-ray player." <-Correct


RE: % of what?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/24/08, Rating: 0
RE: % of what?
By Hawkido on 1/24/08, Rating: 0
RE: % of what?
By murphyslabrat on 1/24/2008 8:13:33 PM , Rating: 2
The problem is that Ben over there just can't be satisfied. So what if you get a below average-featured player (no remote, etc., where you have to walk over and power it on) with a free next-generation gaming console, it's just not good enough.


RE: % of what?
By DJ Tama on 1/24/2008 12:43:19 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
PS3 is a game console. It possesses the capability to play Blu-Ray movies, but that is not the primary function (as much as Sony might want you to believe otherwise).


The PS3 was originally designed as a game console, but was transformed into a Media Center with Gaming capabilities. I have one and I can say with certanty I use the Media Center functions 80% over the gaming functions (apart from lack of titles, I am a PC guy...)

quote:
Don't bother mentioning the Bluetooth remote that can be purchased separately as this won't turn the PS3 on when it's in hibernate or (preferably) turned off when not in use.


Sorry, I have to correct you here. You obviously don't research before you speak/type.

The BT Remote acts as a controller for the system (Controller 7 of 7) and is married with whatever system you pair it with (just like BT is supposed to). The range on it is exceptional and is far superior than an IR remote that you need line-of-sight- to use. And because it acts as a Controller, it will turn on the unit from the standby state.

The PS3 is faster, sharper, and all-around the best choice in a BD-player. Just because it has gaming capabilities doesn't make it any less of a system.

Also, You have the iPhone backwards. Its a iPod Touch that can make phone calls, and its terrible at it...

So in short, research before you speak ill of anything. You could stand to look less like an idiot in front of others if you do.


RE: % of what?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/24/08, Rating: -1
RE: % of what?
By bplewis24 on 1/24/2008 12:58:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Does it power the unit on? No. Thanks for playing.


Again, yes...it does.

Brandon


RE: % of what?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/24/08, Rating: 0
RE: % of what?
By bplewis24 on 1/24/2008 5:18:12 PM , Rating: 3
No, and no.

With the PS3 remote, it is bluetooth, so you will only be able to (fully) control the PS3 with it.

With a universal remote properly programmed (there are two steps involved I think, requiring a workaround), you will be able to control normal DVD/BD playback functions, but will not be able to turn the console on.

Brandon


RE: % of what?
By illhuntudown on 1/24/2008 11:06:20 PM , Rating: 1
Great post.

Would like to add for those PS3 fan boys:

I purchased a PS3 - 80 gig system this past Xmas. Why? Because I already had the 360 w/ HD-DVD and the Wii and the kids already had their own computers .... so basically it was the only thing left to buy. So if the movie companies are basing sales of these players, well, perhaps it's not a smart move. Moreover, consider that Sony makes the fastest Blu-Ray player (PS3) since it can load the JAVA the fastest and that Sony owns movie studios, too. When HD-DVD dies, then there's no competition. And again, the PS3 is priced below other standalone Blu-Ray players, so competing companies will go by the wayside, too.

Sony will own the market.

Drink the kool-aid.

So, will the price of HD movies ever fall? Who knows.

And from my own perspective having owned all three (360, Wii, PS3), the Wii comes in first, 360 second, and PS3 dead last. Most horrific user interface of the three. Defend it if you want, I can't.


RE: % of what?
By KentState on 1/25/2008 1:51:41 PM , Rating: 1
Why do you keep saying that the BT remote can not power the system on or off? I know for a fact that it does as both mine, my brother, and my parents can both turn it on and off.


RE: % of what?
By bplewis24 on 1/24/2008 12:52:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
PS3 does not have a standard IR remote nor can I get it to work with my existing remote.


If you have a universal remote, yes you can.

quote:
Don't bother mentioning the Bluetooth remote that can be purchased separately as this won't turn the PS3 on when it's in hibernate


Yes it can.

quote:
I will hold out for a BR 2.0 spec player from a reputable manufacturer with a track record for not screwing consumers at every corner (Read: Not Sony).


If Sony doesn't qualify, then you'll probably be waiting forever.

Brandon


RE: % of what?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/24/08, Rating: -1
RE: % of what?
By Ricky Williams on 1/24/2008 1:31:35 PM , Rating: 3
Do you ever get sick of being wrong about everything and sounding like the world's stupidest fanboy/Sony hater?


RE: % of what?
By Vanilla Thunder on 1/24/2008 5:18:36 PM , Rating: 2
I think the answer to your question is quite obvious. Read his posts.

V.


RE: % of what?
By bplewis24 on 1/24/2008 6:12:23 PM , Rating: 1
I completely agree with you that Sony isn't the be all, end all. Panasonic and Pioneer make very good quality products, along with Sony.

However, my post was more in the context of you assuming that Sony is out to "screw the customer at every corner." That is simply no more true for Sony than any other company, including panasonic, pioneer, apple, toshiba and microsoft. In other words, these companies aren't out to screw the customer, they're out to make money. Some just have better marketing departments than others, and all have made mistakes before.

Brandon


RE: % of what?
By DJ Tama on 1/24/2008 1:12:43 PM , Rating: 2
The PS3 BT remote can turn the system on and off. You use the PS button in the middle of the remote to turn on the system, and when you finish, you hold the PS button for 1 sec until the menu comes that says "Turn the system off".

I own it, I know what I have. It may not be able to control a TV set or a stereo amp set, but if you already have an "all in one" remote for all your other HT equip, having the PS3 BT remote until Logitech comes out with a BT Universal (which I am waiting for) is good for me for now.

And I have a 47" 1080p (native 1920x1080, not a fake 720p) LCD. I am just missing the stereo system to push out the 7.1 audio, but for now, in a small 600 sq.ft. apartment, the 2ch speakers are loud enough...


RE: % of what?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/24/08, Rating: 0
RE: % of what?
By Belard on 1/24/2008 10:07:44 AM , Rating: 3
Do you own a car?

If its just a car, does that mean you bought one that doesn't come with a stereo/CD player since its not a REAL stereo?

How about your cell phone? Use it more than just making calls? Like texting, camera, calander?

PS3 is a good BluRay player, its not noisy like the 360. You can buy a "standard" remote to use it like a player. And it saves another INPUT on the TV.

But of course if you just want a player, no games (Daily tech is kind of a gaming site) well... oh well..


RE: % of what?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/24/2008 10:12:47 AM , Rating: 1
DT is a Science/Tech site.


RE: % of what?
By psypher on 1/24/2008 11:19:27 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
DT is a Science/Tech site.

that does an awful lot of reporting on games.


RE: % of what?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/24/2008 12:45:27 PM , Rating: 1
Games are tech?


RE: % of what?
By Chaser on 1/24/2008 12:47:52 PM , Rating: 2
And as always your informative, unbiased, professional posts bring great credit to it as well.


RE: % of what?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/24/2008 1:00:45 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
And as always your informative, unbiased, professional posts bring great credit to it as well.

Thanks for the sarcasm. In the comments section, we are allowed to voice opinions. We are generally only picky about the articles themselves, but we are still only human beings (Read: Fallible).


RE: % of what?
By dblind1 on 1/24/2008 11:21:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
PS3 is a good BluRay player, its not noisy like the 360. You can buy a "standard" remote to use it like a player. And it saves another INPUT on the TV.

Ok, this shows your age and your preferences toward entertainment. First of all the "standard" remote is not so standard. you cannot use a universal remote to control the PS3 nor is the PS3 remote able to control TVs or AV receivers . For you, that might not be a problem, but for people with Home Theater setups it can be yet another headache. One of my friends got a PS3 to be both a console and a player. While it does have good quality, his new logitech harmony remote cannot control the PS3 so he has to have 2 remotes to watch a movie (one for volume one for player functions. While this is not a problem for tech savy guys that read this website, it might be a huge problem for their wifes, babysitters, kids, grandparents, etc. that come over for a visit or to watch the kids. Throw an AV receiver in the mix and stuff gets real fun. Right now, I have to have a page of instructions by the remotes when the grandparents come over to babysit in case they want to watch a dvd instead of satellite. Give me one remote that gives the user one button access to change to other devices and that keeps everyone happy. One remote to rule them all!

As far as the quiet part... you play COD4 and then just want to watch a movie? The PS3 fan is VERY loud and in a home entertainment cabinet the fans could spin up while you are just watch a movie! This degrades from the whole movie experience. I will wait for a nice cheap stand alone unit that is meant for watching movies that doesn't need a 200 watts o power to power it. I also have enough heat in my entertainment center with a 700 watt AV Receiver that I don't need another overpowered device to really get things cooking.

and BTW, I'm not a fan boy of either format. I want both to live. I just want both to be cheap or have combo players that are actually cheaper than buying seperate players. After all, DVD+- thing has tought us that multiple formats can coexist. The added competition makes them work harder. Do you think we would have a Bluray 2.0 spec if they weren't trashed because HDDVD menus 'beat them hands down'? That is just one example of what the competition between the two formats has inspired.

Think about it!


RE: % of what?
By BPB on 1/24/2008 12:30:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ok, this shows your age and your preferences toward entertainment. First of all the "standard" remote is not so standard. you cannot use a universal remote to control the PS3 nor is the PS3 remote able to control TVs or AV receivers .
I don't agree. I got the remote below from Amazon, and then set my Harmony Remote for Xbox 360 to work as a Blu Wave. The only thing it won't do is turn the player on, and maybe off as well. Other than that, which, come on, is not a big deal, it runs my PS3, and runs it fine. I figure sooner or later Logitech adds bluetooth to the Harmony line.

http://www.amazon.com/PlayStation-3-Blu-Wave-Remot...


RE: % of what?
By bplewis24 on 1/24/2008 12:56:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you cannot use a universal remote to control the PS3


Yes, you can.

quote:
While it does have good quality, his new logitech harmony remote cannot control the PS3


Yes, it can.

quote:
The PS3 fan is VERY loud


This is subjective and has been debunked time and time again. It has been loud for some folks. And there are a ton of people who never hear the PS3 during a movie, myself being one of them. The only time my fan kicks into overdrive is during F@H, and that's only when there's no sound in the place.

Let's stay factual on this site, please.

Brandon


RE: % of what?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/24/2008 1:07:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yes, you can.

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/...

I just checked hoping that you were on to something, and my Harmony remote would work, but alas 'tis false. The guys over on the Playstation forums have stated clearly that the two will not work. Heck even Sony's Universal Remotes don't work with the PS3.

quote:
Let's stay factual on this site, please.

Likewise. Reference your stance helps to prove your point, or in this case disprove.


RE: % of what?
By blaster5k on 1/24/2008 1:31:57 PM , Rating: 2
That's a slightly dated forum post. PS3 can work with a Harmony remote now, but you need to buy an IR add on to plug into the USB port. Still a minor aggravation, but something I'm assuming people who use consoles to play movies are more willing to accept.


RE: % of what?
By blaster5k on 1/24/2008 1:33:29 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, it still doesn't address the on/off part.


RE: % of what?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/24/2008 1:35:27 PM , Rating: 2
:(


RE: % of what?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/24/2008 1:34:22 PM , Rating: 2
Got a link to this addon? I haven't been able to find one.


RE: % of what?
By blaster5k on 1/24/2008 2:11:22 PM , Rating: 2
It was mentioned in a post just above.

http://www.amazon.com/PlayStation-3-Blu-Wave-Remot...


RE: % of what?
By Oscarine on 1/24/2008 2:12:23 PM , Rating: 2
There is no first party add-on AFAIK, well unless you count finding the orginal PS/2 Remote Addon.

Otherwise you have to buy say.. the Nyko remote and use the IR sensor from that.

I have both the IR sensor for my Harmony and the Bluetooth remote. You can turn the system off/on with the Bluetooth unit.

I suppose its possible if Sony ever bothered to release a IR version of there own they could patch the system to turn off/on via IR. Then again I wouldn't hold my breath.


RE: % of what?
By bplewis24 on 1/24/2008 5:26:38 PM , Rating: 2
The playstation.com forums probably weren't the best place to check. Not a requirement to be tech-savvy at those places.

Anyway, here are a couple links to the process: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=76...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12...

Also, other than popular Logitech and Harmony remotes, the first method is compatible with Prontos and Home Theatre Master remotes.

Alas, turning the console "on" via the Home button is still the last thing wanting.

Brandon


RE: % of what?
By kmmatney on 1/24/2008 5:50:38 PM , Rating: 2
I have a cheapo Sony Universal remote I bought from Walmart that controls all of my stuff (I don't have a PS3, though). You would think that it wouldn't be too hard for Sony to add a universal IR remote to their bluetooth remote, solving this issue.

Personally, I don't see the big deal with 2 remotes...


RE: % of what?
By TimTheEnchanter25 on 1/24/2008 10:33:28 AM , Rating: 4
I've never used a stand alone Blu-Ray player, but I've had a PS3 for about 9 months.

I just borrowed my parents' Toshibia HD-A30 to watch a couple HD-DVD exclusives. And I can't believe how much it sucks. The first time I turned it on, I thought I messed up a cable or a setting, because I didn't have a picture. But no, it's boot up time is just rediclously slow. It just sits there with nothing on the screen for what seems like forever. The PS3 starts up almost instantally. If I bought one of these, I would've returned it after the first movie.

I decided to update the firmware for them, since they don't have an easy way to hook it up at their house, but the stupid thing locked up on me when it tried to install it.

I can't imagine that the stand alone Blu-Ray players are any less wimpy than the HD-DVD players. That's a nice side effect of the PS3 having a CPU that is powerfull enough for gaming, it makes it way more powerfull for playing movies. I can't imagine any reason that someone that has even a small intrest in gaming would buy a stand alone player instead of a PS3.

The only negative I see is that Logitech doesn't make a Harmony remote with bluetooth yet. But, it isn't that difficult to use the controller as a remote. Most movies skip the menu and go straight to playing. You can cycle through the audio settings from the pop up menu (triangle), hit start to pause / play, and circle to quit playback.


RE: % of what?
By Targon on 1/24/2008 11:43:50 AM , Rating: 2
The real problem is, as you mentioned, the startup and a lack of display on that A30. My cable box takes several minutes with a blue screen while it boots up(after losing power), which is only slightly better than the lack of signal you saw with the A30.

The A30 may still end up being a better player for the majority of the home theater market though. I would NEVER buy a console just for an accessory, and most people out there probably feel the same way. Then again, most people still don't have a HD capable TV, so won't care about the issue in the first place.


RE: % of what?
By enlil242 on 1/24/2008 10:00:28 AM , Rating: 3
Here, here! I have an HD-DVD addon for my 360, and just picked up a PS3 for BluRay. Was going to try and get one of the $399 standalones and read some reviews and got the PS3. I'll say it is nice. Nicer than I thought and a better player than the 360 add-on. (As far as noise)

I certainaly didn't buy it for games, although that is a nice "bonus" feature, and I do like streaming what videos I have on my home comupter, as well as images and mp3s (Although I have a squeezebox for that.) The PS3 does that better than I had thought.

Yes the PS3 is a console, but it feels like a component ... Plus, it's the fastest BluRay player on the market. No load times. You insert the disc and it starts playing. Oh, and I so missed having a slot loading optical drive!


RE: % of what?
By theflux on 1/24/2008 12:31:59 PM , Rating: 2
You're just struggling to find a reason not to buy into Blu-ray, and enjoying trolling while you do so.


RE: % of what?
By masher2 (blog) on 1/24/2008 11:07:11 AM , Rating: 2
> "With about 100,000 HD-DVD players in the wild..."

Eh? Walmart sold more than that in the month of November alone. The last figure I heard for total HD-DVD players was ~500K, and that's aa couple months out of date.


RE: % of what?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 1/24/2008 11:40:13 AM , Rating: 2
I was hearing over 1 million stand alone players for both BR and HD before the holiday season.


RE: % of what?
By ChristopherO on 1/24/2008 3:03:46 PM , Rating: 2
There are over one million HD DVD players alone.

Last year Toshiba released a press statement that they had sold 750,000. This was before last holiday season where some stores had bargain basement prices (and not including the Xbox device).

I think the Xbox add-on total is hovering around 400,000.

The estimated HD DVD installed base is currently about 1.5M players.


RE: % of what?
By bplewis24 on 1/24/2008 5:34:06 PM , Rating: 2
The article that referenced 750,000 units sold did include the 360 add-on.

quote:
NOV. 27 | Following heavy Black Friday discounting, HD DVD players have collectively sold more than 750,000 units, according to the North American HD DVD Promotional Group.

That figure encompasses lifetime sales of both Toshiba stand-alone models and Xbox 360 HD DVD players.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6505633.htm...

Also, one month ago 360 add-on sales were around 269,000.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Industry_Tr...

Lastly, I believe 360 add-ons still comprise 3% of the total 360 user base (NA only) as of last week, but I can't find the article for that.

Brandon


RE: % of what?
By griffynz on 1/24/2008 10:42:53 PM , Rating: 2
100,000 ? Toshiba sold 90,000 in one week end when they had the big price drop.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/11/07/90-000-hd-dvd...

'As of January 08 Toshiba has announced that close to 1 million dedicated HD DVD players have been sold.'

Maybe you missed a zero?
Add another 1 as I brought a player last week, and 21 movies.


RE: % of what?
By therealnickdanger on 1/24/2008 8:07:53 AM , Rating: 2
From what I've been reading, however, the 5500 and 6500 will not have as many connections - specifically the lovely 7-channel analog audio outputs. Those are sweet.


RE: % of what?
By wallijonn on 1/24/2008 9:43:40 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
I'm not sure why I'm supposed to worry about an Endgadget link for a device I own, that works fine for what I use it for.


Because any BD drive that isn't "BD Live " capable is basically already obsolete if you feel that you may want to use the internet to download any extras.

When looking at movie cases at the store you'll have to buy the "BD Plus" (IIRC) discs instead of the movies marked "BD Live." If you insert a BD Live disc into your player it may not play at all.

You get to feel just like all us XP gamers who see "Vista" on the front of a game box and won't even bother picking it up to read the description on the back. Or all the people who bought "Vista ready" PCs and then found it was anything but.

I would expect rental companies not to carry the 'BD Live' discs.


RE: % of what?
By bplewis24 on 1/24/2008 6:17:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you insert a BD Live disc into your player it may not play at all.


Please stop lying to people. This is simply not true. The profile 1.1 discs with full PiP have already played on non-profile 1.1 players completely fine. There is no reason to assume profile 2.0 won't be the same.

Brandon


RE: % of what?
By bplewis24 on 1/24/2008 2:13:22 AM , Rating: 5
Total Sales Numbers:

Week Ending 1/5 (Before Warner switch):
Blu-ray Disc - 15,257 units
HD-DVD - 14,558 units

Week Ending 1/12 (After Warner switch):
Blu-ray Disc - 21,770 units
HD-DVD - 1,758 units

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35749/118/

So you can see, blu-ray sales went up roughly 40% while HD-DVD went down roughly 85%. Sales volumes were down on the week because HD DVD sales went down much further than Blu-ray sales shot up. We won't have the hardware figures for the week of the Toshiba fire-sale for another week or so. And it still requires somebody to leak them to us.

Brandon


RE: % of what?
By xphile on 1/24/2008 4:15:09 AM , Rating: 5
From what I see your numbers are spot on and a 5 to 10 second analysis says it all. There really isn't that much more on the actual specifics of the subject (Who might win) to comment on. Hardware models, prices, yadda yadda - all that stuff is now short term pub talk versus the real story.

The only realistic saviour for HD-DVD now is the impossibly juicy headline:

"Bill Gates Surprises World Markets With SONY Takeover Bid."

I suppose somewhere, sometime, stranger things have happened but I don't think even MS has quite enough cash in the apocalyptic post-Vista climate to do that. (And yes folks I am joking here anyway).

It should also be STRONGLY recognised that DVD was launched in 1996 and took until June 2003 to become more popular than VHS in the USA. And that was WITH the truly massive change in both the standard video format size from VHS cassette to cd sized "higher quality video discs" and the format quality that simply blew VHS away.

Neither 2nd gen HD format "blows away" DVD as far as the average consumer is concerned, and more importantly the existing DVD format is JUST settling in in absolute terms as the current defacto standard worldwide. It sure as heck hasn't been sitting around 20 plus years waiting patiently for someone to get around to kicking its butt.

You might be racing out to buy all your new movies in HD disc format, and God bless you, the studios all love you, especially in the months of the lesser advertising dollar strike action, but for many years to come no matter what you think and no matter what you say, whether you are technically right or not, it will not change the fact that we will all still be in the minority and even a prevailing HD disc format will still be a long time loser in sales to DVD before it ever takes over in volume or price.

Still, let's just hope BR get their act together and in the next gen or two provide all the features HD-DVD already had or were promising that Sony didn't. It would be REALLY sad if the consumer is the end loser YET AGAIN to the lesser format.

But in the end it's time to face facts here, it's taken 30 years but Sony have their Beta revenge.


RE: % of what?
By Serafina on 1/24/08, Rating: -1
RE: % of what?
By Proteusza on 1/24/2008 5:26:18 AM , Rating: 1
Blu Ray may have more space and a higher bit rate, but that isnt all that makes a format good.

It also has less features, more draconian copy protection and region encoding. And triple layer HD DVDs can store 51GB.

I also will mourn the loss of HD DVD, because undoubtedly Sony will take a percentage of each disc sold - not good for the consumer.


RE: % of what?
By Ricky Williams on 1/24/08, Rating: -1
RE: % of what?
By bluewall21 on 1/24/2008 7:17:18 AM , Rating: 2
HD DVD is not directly controlled by Toshiba, it's a product of the DVD Forum, the same group that officially created the DVD.


RE: % of what?
By Proteusza on 1/24/2008 8:24:12 AM , Rating: 1
Sigh.... Is this village idiot day?

HD DVD is controlled by the DVD forum, the same people behind the original DVD format. Sony defected from the group to form Blu Ray - look on wikipedia.

And with HD DVD able to store 51 GBs per disc, and Blu Ray 50, what do you think this means? Hint: 51 is a bigger number than 50.

And have you forgotten that HD DVD players can be upgraded because they all include an ethernet port, but not all Blu Ray players? Consequently early Blu Ray players cant play new discs, but as old HD DVD drives can be upgraded, they can play any HD DVD.

Keep your fanboyism to yourself, and do some research before you post unfounded facts.


RE: % of what?
By Etsp on 1/24/08, Rating: -1
RE: % of what?
By FITCamaro on 1/24/2008 8:50:13 AM , Rating: 3
In 2012, new movie discs will require HDCP in order to get the high definition image due to the Image Constraint Token(ICT). It is currently deactivated. So all first gen Blu-ray players lacking an ethernet port will not be able to be updated and have to be replaced for the people to be able to watch their high def movies in high definition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_Constraint_Toke...

quote:
do some research before you post unfounded facts.


RE: % of what?
By ArneBjarne on 1/24/2008 11:59:57 AM , Rating: 2
Care to name a HD DVD/Blu-ray player that has the hardware for HDCP but not the software? If you can't, then firmware updates are obviously not going to change a thing when it comes to ICT.

The people that are going to run into problems with ICT, are people with older TVs/projectors that do not have any inputs with HDCP support. I'm sure your not seriously suggesting that Toshiba can do anything to help these people by sending out a firmware update to HD DVD players, right?

And ofcourse you can always update any player, regardless of whether or not it is connected to the internet. They all read discs, so hint hint, read the data from a disc.


RE: % of what?
By FITCamaro on 1/24/2008 2:32:36 PM , Rating: 2
To reply to both posts so far. Did you even read the article? Yes the real issue is the TVs. But after 2012 the players will need an update for discs that require there to be a secured link between the player and the monitor. All HD-DVD players have a network port to receive this update over. All Blu-ray players do not.

Yes updates via disc are an option but come on, honestly, how many people are going to want to have to wait for Sony, Samsung, etc to send them a disc so they can watch their new movie they just bought?

The network port should have been part of the standard from the beginning in blu-ray as it was with HD-DVD. But it wasn't complete when they released it. They only released it to keep up with HD-DVD.


RE: % of what?
By solidst8 on 1/24/2008 4:30:56 PM , Rating: 2
Would it be impossible to rule-out the ability to have an update loaded from a disc if it doesn't have a network port?


RE: % of what?
By ArneBjarne on 1/24/2008 5:13:02 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry but you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The players will not need an update to play ICT titles via HDCP connections, they already do that now.

The reason you don't need to use a HDCP connection yet is because the studios have generally decided to use a grace period, where they will not enable ICT on their titles. (HINT: it has to do with disc NOT the player).

However, Constatine Film from Germany has already used it on HD DVD, supposedly by mistake, and ofcourse the title(s) still work flawlessly when using an HDCP connection. No surprise to anyone but you apparently, because that is the whole blody point of ICT!!!

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/1323/residentevil_d... :

quote:
Important Notice: This German 'Resident Evil' disc is one of the first HD DVDs to be flagged with an Image Constraint Token. If your HD DVD player is connected by HDMI to your display, there should be no issue in viewing the movie at its full 1080p resolution. Unfortunately, viewers connected by Component Video will find the image downconverted to 480p Standard Definition. This is extremely disappointing, to say the least.


RE: % of what?
By bplewis24 on 1/24/2008 5:49:44 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, I did read the article. After this post I decided to re-read the article for specifics of what you're detailing. There is nothing in the article about players needing an update for discs that require a secured link.

FYI, the very first disc with ICT enabled on it came in the form of the HD DVD import version of Resident Evil (see review of it here: http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/1323/residentevil_d... ). I haven't heard of any players needing to be updated to play it, and notice that Josh Zyber doesn't mention anything about it in his review:

quote:
Important Notice: This German 'Resident Evil' disc is one of the first HD DVDs to be flagged with an Image Constraint Token. If your HD DVD player is connected by HDMI to your display, there should be no issue in viewing the movie at its full 1080p resolution. Unfortunately, viewers connected by Component Video will find the image downconverted to 480p Standard Definition. This is extremely disappointing, to say the least.


As far as I know, there is nothing about HDCP in regards to the ICT that requires any updates. Again, the hardware is either HDCP compliant or it isn't. Discs that generally have required updates have been for software issues (I.E.: Java, or combo disc issues). And in the likelihood that it is needed, it will probably be provided on the disc in question, like some BDs/HD DVDs already have.

Brandon


RE: % of what?
By bplewis24 on 1/24/2008 12:49:13 PM , Rating: 2
I can't believe a post like this gets rated up to 5 when it is completely and utterly untrue.

Ethernet ports and firmware updates have nothing to do with ICT. ICT is in the HDMI/DVI vs Component realm, which is a connection issue which involves hardware. Players either have HDMI connections which are HDCP compatible or they don't. I don't know of any players that don't, other than the original 360 Add-on for non-elite 360 owners.

The real issue is with TVs that don't have HDMI/DVI HDCP compliant inputs. In that case they'd have to use the component connection on a BD/HD DVD player rather than the HDMI port. No ethernet port on a player (or a TV for that matter) is going to help.

SMH. What the heck is going on with DailyTech? Has it basically reached a point where anything can be posted negative about a company/format/console as long as it's popular opinion even if it's not only lacking in facts, but completely untrue?

Brandon


RE: % of what?
By Etsp on 1/24/2008 4:55:01 PM , Rating: 2
It has more to do with the fact that people only read the first reply under a post when rating it...regardless of facts


RE: % of what?
By psypher on 1/24/2008 9:15:19 AM , Rating: 1
HD DVD at 51 GB is 3 layers. Blu Ray at 50 GB is only 2 layers and I believe Hitachi has already demoed a 4 layer 100 GB Blu Ray disc that can be used in current players with a firmware update. God it would be cool to se things like entire trilogies on one disc...

Blu Ray early adopters are in a similar situation to HD DVD owners. Their players are already outdated. However, the highest selling Blu Ray player out there is the PS3. It is also the most advanced player available since it is 2.0 ready. So most of the people out there enjoying their nice Blu Ray movies on their PS3's have nothing to worry about. The other Blu Ray owners can console themselves in the fact that at least there will still be movies made for their players and those players will perform the most desired feature of all... playing high def movies. Who honestly cares about all the extra features? If you have actually taken the time to watch some of these extra features, you might agree with me that they should be relabled "Extra crap we threw on there so you get the illusion of better value for your money."

On to who is behind each format...

In the Blu Ray Association Board of Directors, we have: Apple, Dell, HP, Hitachi, LG, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, Sun, TDK, Thomson, Fox, Disney, and Warner.

In the HD DVD Promotion Group, we have: Toshiba, NEC, Sanyo, Microsoft, RCA, Kenwood, and Intel, as well as many lesser known members.

So for the last time folks, this is not a war behind just Sony and Toshiba even though they are both big players.