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Blu-ray Disc nearly triples HD DVD numbers during Thanksgiving shopping

While the HD DVD group was happily selling its players at new low prices, the Blu-ray Disc camp managed to sell more movies in the week leading up to Thanksgiving. Early data shows Blu-ray Disc sales outpacing HD DVD by an even greater margin than usual.

Tracking firm Nielsen VideoScan has released information showing that 72.6 percent of high-definition discs purchased by consumers were Blu-ray Disc, and just 27.4 percent were HD DVD, reports Home Media Magazine.

A report released last month from Home Media Research indicated that between January 1 and September 30, Blu-ray Disc sold 2.6 million units versus 1.4 million for HD DVD – closely supporting a steady ratio of two Blu-ray Discs sold for every HD DVD.

Nevertheless, the data showing Blu-ray Disc’s commanding lead during Black Friday is slightly surprising given the recent surge in HD DVD sales thanks to rock-bottom prices. Retailers such as Wal-Mart and Best Buy sold Toshiba HD DVD players for less than $100, though prices have since gone back up. Throughout the weekend of the sale prices, Toshiba sold 90,000 players.

Those buyers, however, appeared to be less enthusiastic about buying HD DVD movies during the Thanksgiving holiday, with Blu-ray Disc sales outdoing HD DVD by nearly three-fold. The data from Nielsen VideoScan is not the complete picture, though, as the numbers do not include sales from Wal-Mart, which generally represents about 40 percent of standard DVD sales.

Another possible explanation for Blu-ray Disc’s comparatively stronger showing is the timing of studio-exclusive titles Live Free or Die Hard, Hairspray and Ratatouille. HD DVD had no comparable blockbuster releases for the month of November.

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The end of HD-DVD
By dl429 on 11/30/2007 2:18:03 PM , Rating: 5
If blu-ray can out sell hd-dvd 3 to 1 over the biggest shopping week of the year despite the fact that the players cost 3x as much what hope is there really for hd-dvd. Walmart and others were practically giving away hd-dvd players at $99 and the still lost in disc sales 3 to 1. It's not looking too promising for the hd-dvd guys, but they will never admit to that.




RE: The end of HD-DVD
By littlebitstrouds on 11/30/2007 2:31:12 PM , Rating: 2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamcast
OMG look how cheap I can get that... it has to outlast the superior PS2 cause it's that cheap right?

We're talking the same generation of consumers here.


RE: The end of HD-DVD
By Adsski on 12/10/2007 5:51:20 AM , Rating: 2
I think sometimes it's actually the retailers who also help the consumers decide.

Here in Britain it feels like we already have a winner, and it's blu-ray.

This is due to two factors really, firstly we always get ripped off on price for electrical goods compared to the US, so there aren't any cheap HD-DVD players. It's £199 for the basic Toshiba vs £299 for the PS3, and most consumers find that a no brainer considering all the other stuff the PS3 can do + the kids desperatly want one!

Secondly and more telling is a quick walk around the high street shops, Virging, HMV, Woolworths etc. In every shop i have been in the blu-ray stock on the shelves outnumbers HD-DVD by about 10-1 (If you can even find the HD-DVD!) and this gives a clear message to people considerring moving to high def. What content can i buy for it?


RE: The end of HD-DVD
By SavagePotato on 11/30/2007 3:13:35 PM , Rating: 3
It's called having hd-dvd blinders on. There is always another thing to wait for for hd-dvd supporters. Transformers, $200 players, $99 players, all these things would be the trump card that turned things around quickly in favor of hd-dvd. Yet, blu-ray continues to pull ahead.

Now were told to wait till after Christmas and we will see the true effect of the magic of hd-dvd. Theres always yet another thing to wait for, and every single time it passes, blu-ray increases it's lead.

Welcome to the wonderful world of denial. You need some strong denial in the first place to convince yourself that less is more.


RE: The end of HD-DVD
By Spuke on 11/30/07, Rating: -1
RE: The end of HD-DVD
By SavagePotato on 11/30/2007 4:51:33 PM , Rating: 2
I honestly think it is really amusing at this point to see the creativity and denial going on. Theres always another excuse as to why blu-ray is doomed even as the numbers grow and grow in it's favor.


RE: The end of HD-DVD
By Locutus465 on 11/30/2007 5:12:49 PM , Rating: 2
actually you missed (and then proved) his point right there with this post. He wasn't supporting hd dvd at all, just pointing out how... enthusiastic bd camp is about evangalizing their fav product


RE: The end of HD-DVD
By SavagePotato on 11/30/2007 5:18:20 PM , Rating: 2
If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is.

In my opinion, touting superiority with inferior specs, touting inevitable victory with a continual downward sales ratio despite constantly plummeting costs far beyond selling players at a loss, would be the definition about being enthusiastic about evangelizing a product.

This creative analysis is amusing to me. As well as what hd supporters are able to convince themselves of.


RE: The end of HD-DVD
By Locutus465 on 11/30/2007 5:32:48 PM , Rating: 2
I like HD-DVD because it is approching mass market adoption much more quickly than blu ray, with apparent (referencing other such threads here) $30 per player BD royalties, it doesn't seem possible that we'll ever see $50 BD players like we did with DVD (this truely spurred DVD adoption).

What I want is for "HD" to become the standard, I see HD-DVD as making this happen and BD delaying this needlessly. I also am having trouble seeing the clear advanatages BD offers my Home Theater. I think you'll find most HD-DVD supporters feel the same way. I'm also confident that if BD group releases an actually affordable BD player that most of us will run out and buy BD players, and the movies we've been missing out on thus far in HD... I know I would. But here I sit waiting, for an affordable BD player that seems unlikely to arrive any time soon.


RE: The end of HD-DVD
By SavagePotato on 11/30/2007 5:48:48 PM , Rating: 1
Keep telling yourself that I guess.

It's achieving mass market adoption faster despite the fact that its consistently outsold and falling even further behind?

That is some unusual logic, but if it floats your boat.


RE: The end of HD-DVD
By Keeir on 11/30/2007 6:15:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What I want is for "HD" to become the standard, I see HD-DVD as making this happen and BD delaying this needlessly.


But despite having cheaper players (100-300 dollars cheaper)
Promotions
Some good exclusives (Transformers and 300 special features)
"Cheaper" Discs
More options discs (HD DVD+DVD)

etc

Its Blu-Ray thats getting the HD content into homes at a 2-1 or a 3-1 ratio right now. Which is why the HD DVD people are pretty funny.... "Just wait, next year HD DVD is going to sell!!!"

I don't think HD DVD is going to sell well unless Blu-ray goes away... since Blu-Ray is not going to go away...


RE: The end of HD-DVD
By Hawkido on 11/30/07, Rating: 0
RE: The end of HD-DVD
By maverick85wd on 12/2/2007 7:21:48 AM , Rating: 2
I find that funny at least...

vista apparently drove a few of their executives insane lol


I know it's a Blu-Ray Forum ...
By deeznuts on 11/30/2007 1:31:42 PM , Rating: 2
I know it's a Blu-Ray Forum, but if you like to keep track of such things, here ya go:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=8608

They do link to Home Media Magazine (which is the "source" so I'm told).




RE: I know it's a Blu-Ray Forum ...
By jamdunc on 11/30/2007 4:57:10 PM , Rating: 2
Well using that site we can stipulate that:

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending April 8th
WE: BD-62.4% HDD-37.6% YTD: BD-69.4% HDD-30.6%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 25th
WE: BD-72% HDD-28% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35%

So HD-DVD, even though it's always behind in sales, somehow has a bigger market share in the YTD. Can anyone explain how this has occured?


RE: I know it's a Blu-Ray Forum ...
By SavagePotato on 11/30/2007 5:08:23 PM , Rating: 3
The year to date conceivably is an average of the highs and lows to that point.

Since inception for april 8th was 57:43.

Since inception for november 25th 62:38

If you take the year to date and average it on the fourth month of the year it is going to be a less accurate average than on the 12th month of the year.

If you look at the since inception figures, you see steady decline for hd-dvd in the full scope of things.


RE: I know it's a Blu-Ray Forum ...
By jamdunc on 12/1/2007 5:01:58 AM , Rating: 2
But that still doesn't answer my question (although it does explain to me what SI stood for :p).

So if as you say on average, which is as accurate for 4 month's as it is for 11, just for a shorter period, HD-DVD has gained Market Share from around 30% upto 35%.

Just because it was 4 months doesn't mean that you can just ignore it as not being accurate. For rhose 4 months they had just over 30% of the YTD market.

So after 11 months they had 35% of the YTD market which in my eyes means they gained market share.

But the since inception figures say they lost market share. Which doesn't agree with the YTD figures.

So am I just being really thick here or is there something i'm missing?


RE: I know it's a Blu-Ray Forum ...
By deeznuts on 11/30/2007 5:35:34 PM , Rating: 2
You have to remember, at the beginning of this year, HD DVD was getting killed because of the PS3 launch. I mean slaughtered. If you follow through the summer and through the end of they year, HD DVD had some good weeks, and looked like it was clawing its way back. The last two weeks however it essentially reversed course, which wouldn't be notable (i.e. just normal fluctuation) however it coincided with the cheap HD DVD player and the massive numbers sold.


RE: I know it's a Blu-Ray Forum ...
By timmiser on 11/30/2007 8:59:40 PM , Rating: 2
So where did the VHS/Beta numbers come from? IIRC, Beta had an early lead over VHS in the '70s, not the other way around. Those numbers look made up.


Myths
By Chaser on 11/30/2007 1:47:53 PM , Rating: 2
So much for the HD DVD 750,000 number hype as that story also claimed that stand alone Blue Ray players only accounted for like half that number?

How many times on this forum have a I read something to the effect that "most PS3 buyers don't care or know it also plays Blue Ray movies?"

Um I think PS3 owners are buying and renting Blue Ray movies.




RE: Myths
By Spuke on 11/30/2007 3:48:30 PM , Rating: 2
Actually there was a survey done by NPD that found that 40% of PS3 owners didn't know they had a bluray player.


RE: Myths
By Chaser on 11/30/2007 7:25:46 PM , Rating: 2
You need to wish for 90% then if there's going to be any chance for HD-DVD to succeed. The numbers are what they are I'm sorry its not working out like you'd hope.


RE: Myths
By BansheeX on 12/1/2007 5:11:09 AM , Rating: 2
If that's true, then that makes the numbers even more impressive. Imagine what will happen when even half of that 60% eventually figures out that it can play blu-ray.


RE: Myths
By Chaser on 12/3/2007 8:10:04 AM , Rating: 2
True. The little bonus item of their PS3.


"It has happened before and it will happen again."
By Grast on 11/30/2007 1:32:32 PM , Rating: 2
"It has happened before and it will happen again."

Unless BR gets a player in the same price range as HDDVD, the same thing is going to happen in the VHS/BetaMax war. The lower priced player will always win. I believe that BR is doing well thus far primarily due to the BR only title that are being released. That is the one feather in the BR camp. They have a lot of good movies.

I suppose that I could be wrong with the war if BR can continue to produce exclusive good movies.

Later..




By littlebitstrouds on 11/30/2007 2:22:33 PM , Rating: 3
I anyone else sick of people comparing Beta with Blu-ray? Ok it's the same company... but 30 years later. If people consider it being a superior technology a negative similarity, well that's just dumb.

Never mind that the price isn't even yet, people today are different consumers. No longer does the area store clerk's knowledge of the product decide what you're going to buy when you can go home and Google it. People will pay for better technology because it seems like a better investment, especially when they just shelled out the cash for the new TV anyway, and you're convincing them that their old technology (DVD) is crap and they need to upgrade to a new standard.


By littlebitstrouds on 11/30/2007 2:26:51 PM , Rating: 2
*Side note*
I just yesterday herd a Bestbuy manager tell a couple that "HDMI is the step up from 1080p." This kinda thing makes me so mad. I wish there was more quality control for the knowledge of some of the people asking you to spend 3k on something.


RE: "It has happened before and it will happen again."
By TomZ on 11/30/2007 2:38:01 PM , Rating: 1
Well I personally blame the electronics industry for doing such a poor job in coming to technical agreement on next-gen display formats. The situation today is very confusing, even for people who are technically inclined, let alone those who are not.


By TomZ on 11/30/2007 3:03:24 PM , Rating: 1
In other words, what I'm trying to say is that if the technology is not simple enough that an electronics store manager cannot understand it, then there's little home for Average Joe to understand it.


Promotions
By InsidiousAngel on 11/30/2007 1:33:26 PM , Rating: 2
Unless I missed it in the article, but a friend of mine who had no plans on buying a PS3, bought one during the sales and walked out with 15 free BluRay movies. I would be curious to know if the 3-to-1 included said promotions or actual sales.




RE: Promotions
By Locutus465 on 11/30/2007 1:37:57 PM , Rating: 2
All movies that your friend got to pick up in the store (i.e. not officially bundled) likely counted as BD sales. So the walmart sale did help bd hdm sales stats.


RE: Promotions
By OxBow on 11/30/2007 1:44:50 PM , Rating: 5
No, because the article clearly states that WalMart figures aren't included. They won't be reported for a couple more weeks.


Or it could be...
By atwood7fan on 11/30/2007 1:35:03 PM , Rating: 2
The fact that most of the good new High-Def movies out are in Blu-ray. I bought my dad one of the HD-A2s during the walmart sale but am having a very hard time finding good new releases in the format.
Plus, many people are ignorant and I think you will find a lot of HD movies on both sides being returned because they bought the wrong format.




RE: Or it could be...
By Locutus465 on 11/30/2007 2:10:28 PM , Rating: 2
There are a ton of great movies on both sides of the isle... I have/suppport HD-DVD, but on the BD side I like

POTC, Fifth Element, Spider Movies, the brothers grimm (this can be imported from Japan, but Toshiba excluded HD audio for some reason with their master), host of Fox movies.

HD-DVD has:
Matrix, Batman Begin, Shrek, star trek, bourn movies, mummy movies, host of other Paramount/Dreamworks/Universal flicks.

Try doing a search for "hd dvd" on amazon.com, I'm sure you'll find oodls of movies you and your father will enjoy.


RE: Or it could be...
By atwood7fan on 11/30/2007 4:14:56 PM , Rating: 2
Those aren't exactly what I would call new releases; Give me Spiderman 3 or Pirates of the Caribbean 3 or something like that and I will be happy


RE: Or it could be...
By Locutus465 on 11/30/2007 4:51:08 PM , Rating: 2
How is the newly remastered star trek (i.e. all new fx and audio) not a new realease? Same goes for Shrek the 3rd (just realease to home video) and the upcomming release of Bourne Ultimatum. I guess if these aren't your favorate style of movie that's one thing, but they are new releases that's for sure.


useless information
By y2chuck on 11/30/2007 4:20:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The data from Nielsen VideoScan is not the complete picture, though, as the numbers do not include sales from Wal-Mart, which generally represents about 40 percent of standard DVD sales.


So Walmart numbers aren't included AND there is no correlation between what percentage of BD/HD sales come from Walmart. Pretty much makes this article useless.

What if Walmart accounts for 80% of all BD/HDD sales and ALL of those sales were HD movies?




RE: useless information
By JSK on 11/30/2007 6:07:27 PM , Rating: 2
Rofl... all those sales were HD movies? Even hypothetically you are grasping at big fat straws when Walmart was giving away 10, count um up, 10 BD discs per PS3 purchase.

If you honestly dont think BD outsold HD at Walmart that week I have some land in the arctic Id like to sell you.


RE: useless information
By MrTeal on 11/30/2007 11:58:14 PM , Rating: 2
Anchorman Bob:
...And with 60% of the polls reporting, incumbent A has 70% lead over challenger B. We're declaring A the winner of this election.

Idiot Pundit:
...Oh yeah? What if the remaining 40% of the polls came back 100% in favor of B? He could still win. This information is useless.

Inferences can be made from a sample without knowing the makeup of the whole population. It happens every day, and is incredibly useful. Chances are, unless Toshiba and Microsoft have hired goons in every Walmart punching people in the kidneys for picking up a BR movie, then the totals there will be close to the totals most other places. Exactly the same? Probably not. But probably pretty close.


Another possible reason for the increase BR sales
By SithSolo1 on 11/30/07, Rating: 0
By SavagePotato on 11/30/2007 7:50:53 PM , Rating: 3
Or.

Hd-dvd fan A makes massive generalisation about two ficticious families by basicaly pulling a silly story out of his behind.

Blu-ray backer B laughs at hd-dvd fan A's little made up fantasy scenario and points to the 11 month sales slump for hd-dvd, which is only getting wider.


By timmiser on 11/30/2007 9:05:29 PM , Rating: 3
Doesn't really matter.

Mom A is hot. Mom B is not.

Any questions?


Nielsen HiDef Sales Numbers
By superdynamite on 11/30/2007 1:39:59 PM , Rating: 3
Nielsen/VideoScan Weekly Sales Numbers

------------------------------------------------- ----------

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 25th (Includes Black Friday)

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...0207/index....

WE: BD-72% HDD-28% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-62% HDD-38%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 18th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...2507/index....

WE: BD-66% HDD-34% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 11th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...1807/index....

WE: BD-65% HDD-35% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 4th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...1107/index....

WE: BD-71% HDD-29% YTD: BD-64% HDD-36% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%




RE: Nielsen HiDef Sales Numbers
By Gio6518 on 11/30/2007 11:27:51 PM , Rating: 2
heres most of the year to date

Week Ending Blu-Ray HD-DVD

11/18 66% 34%
11/11 65% 35%
11/04 71% 29%
10/28 55% 45%
10/21 51% 49%
10/14 71% 29%
10/07 68% 32%
09/30 54% 46%
09/23 63% 37%
09/16 61% 39%
09/09 60% 40%
09/02 56% 44%
08/26 68% 32%
08/19 71% 29%
08/12 66% 34%
08/05 62% 38%
07/29 66% 34%
07/22 74% 26%
07/15 61% 39%
07/08 66% 34%
07/01 65% 35%
06/24 70% 30%
06/17 64% 36%
06/10 66% 34%
06/03 61% 39%
05/27 69% 31%
05/20 58% 42%
05/13 62% 38%
05/06 60% 40%
04/29 71% 29%
04/22 52% 48%
04/15 61% 39%
04/08 62.4% 37.6%


Not sure how relevant these numbers really are
By BigDH01 on 11/30/2007 5:11:08 PM , Rating: 2
1) They don't include Wal-Mart

2) According to this:

http://charts.highdefdigest.com/history.aspx?TYPE=...

HD-DVD did really well on Amazon that week.




By Locutus465 on 11/30/2007 5:37:28 PM , Rating: 2
yeah, hd dvd owned amazon that particular week... We'll have to wait for NPD which will be a while.


Big Deal
By Gio6518 on 11/30/2007 11:57:04 PM , Rating: 2
whats the big deal about this article Blu-Ray always outsells HD-DVD every week so why would this week be any different




Wait..
By SiliconAddict on 12/1/2007 1:17:16 AM , Rating: 2
I'm willing to be the influx of cheap HD DVD players will change this. Plus you have some pretty big movies \ sets coming out in December the least of which is BSG Season 1 in high def this coming Tuesday. It is the sole reason I picked up a HDDVD player off of Amazon this week.
Also as sony gets more games on the PS3 watch as sales migrate from movies to games on the PS3 which is going to also drop sales.
Again...wait.




My A3 is sad
By gus6464 on 12/1/2007 11:52:03 AM , Rating: 2
I got an A3 the weekend of Nov 2 when walmart was unloading the A2 at $99. Paid $199 for it and got 5 movies right away (2 in box, 3 in store). After watching the 5 movies it hasn't been turned on ever since. And the sad thing is it's only going to be turned on for Bourne Ultimatum and Battlestar Galactica S1 for the rest of the year. Whereas my PS3 gets a lot more movie playtime.

Ohh wait I did turn it on the other day to upgrade the firmware but it told me to go to hell because it didn't want to be upgraded.

Ohh and the Dolby Digital Plus soundtrack on transformers hd-dvd sucks compared to the regular dvd one. Ratatouille on BD had more bass with it's PCM soundtrack. You would expect a 50 ton tank thrown in the air would rattle the room, but it doesn't. And it was nice of Paramount to give us the crappy excuse of blaming the no TrueHD track in the hd-dvd on "it cannot fit on the disc".




By thesafetyisoff on 12/1/2007 11:54:55 AM , Rating: 2
Porn was a deciding factor in the Beta/VHS war. And it favors HD-DVD. I think it will be less of a factor now that people get it from the Internet, but it still affects sales.

Also, if & when cheap HD-DVD players are released for Xbox I think the numbers will be influenced as well.

This battle is a long way from being over.




Wow....
By PitViper007 on 12/1/2007 9:10:48 PM , Rating: 2
I find that interesting considering how many A2's were sold over the week prior to Thanksgiving. I've been pretty adamant about not jumping onto either format until there was a clear winner, but I have to admit, I almost bit on that $99 A2.

I feel that there are still some problems with HD-DVD that keep me from jumping in (even with their lower player prices).

Until Venturer released their player, Toshiba has been the ONLY player manufacturer. If you look at BD, there are at least 6 different manufacturers making their players. This doesn't seem to be anything that people are talking about at all. Most people seem to concentrate on studio exclusivity, and while that is telling, doesn't give the full picture.

On the matter of exclusivity, I don't think that is as important as how many total titles there are available for each format. Again, HD-DVD isn't quite keeping up in that department either. In doing a quick check at BestBuy.com I find that there are 390 total listings for HD-DVD and 457 total for BD. Granted, there are a few overlaps, but the number of titles are pretty close to that stated. And yet compared to how many DVDs are listed (65349), neither format has enough titles to even begin to take over as the "format of choice".

So at this point, I still have to say that there's no point in choosing a side, for me at least. I would hope there there would be a clear winner soon, as I really would like to get into Hi-Def, but I still don't see it happening.




Its Confirmed
By mikefarinha on 11/30/07, Rating: 0
A week early...
By masher2 (blog) on 11/30/07, Rating: -1
RE: A week early...
By TomZ on 11/30/2007 1:31:55 PM , Rating: 4
Also, I would think that a lot of HD-DVD players being purchased this time of the year will stay in the box and not be opened until Christmas, at least in the US. Therefore, a lot of the effect of these sales may not come until early next year.

And of course, the same would be true for Blu-ray as well.


RE: A week early...
By Locutus465 on 11/30/2007 1:36:22 PM , Rating: 2
This was exactly my thought, the effect of the HD-DVD sales will be felt after christmas. Additionally BD format has more recent big releases which helps. Januaray will prove an interesting month.


RE: A week early...
By Chaser on 11/30/07, Rating: 0
RE: A week early...
By TomZ on 11/30/2007 2:13:10 PM , Rating: 1
I think you missed the point. So here it is again - suppose I receive a shiny new HD-DVD player for Christmas, which of course I open up on 12/25. Supposing I set it up right away, what do you think the next think I'm going to do with respect to my new player? I'm probably going to buy or rent some HD-DVD movies.


RE: A week early...
By Chaser on 11/30/07, Rating: -1
RE: A week early...
By TomZ on 11/30/2007 2:35:22 PM , Rating: 4
If you read my post a couple up, you'll see I already acknowledged the same would be true for Blu-ray. Since I don't care which side "wins" (or if any side wins), it's hard for me to really engage in "wishful thinking." I don't even own a player nor do I intend to purchase one in the near future. I prefer to waste my free time here at DT instead. :o)


RE: A week early...
By Chaser on 11/30/2007 2:44:17 PM , Rating: 2
You got me there Tom :) That makes two of us :)


RE: A week early...
By Guyver on 11/30/2007 2:40:10 PM , Rating: 2
Do you suppose that the 10 free Blu-Ray movies given away during the Wal-Mart Black Friday counted as sales since they still had to be rung up? Mail in offers and movies packaged with players obviously do not count, but certainly 10 free Blu-Ray movies per 80GB PS3 counted. No?


RE: A week early...
By geddarkstorm on 11/30/2007 2:57:01 PM , Rating: 2
Except the survey didn't include Wal-Mart sales, so it's a moot point then. Of course, it'd be very interesting to see the ratio of sales coming from Wal-mart, given how low they dropped the HD-DVD player prices.


RE: A week early...
By TomZ on 11/30/2007 3:06:51 PM , Rating: 1
I agree, but since Wal-Mart sells PS3 as well as the HD-DVD players, I doubt Wal-Mart's numbers would be too far off from the other broader numbers.


RE: A week early...
By xsilver on 11/30/2007 4:28:28 PM , Rating: 2
Not being american; could someone just quickly explain the economic sense of having a big sale day (black friday) just a month before christmas? from the consumer's point of view its great but from a shops point of view??

btw. A lot of other places have boxing day which is the day after christmas to have big sales. It seems to make more sense because the shops need to clear out their excess stock from christmas.


RE: A week early...
By Locutus465 on 11/30/2007 4:47:59 PM , Rating: 2
Tempt customers into stores with great sales, then while they're there hopefully they'll buy not discounted items with decent margins. The reason why it's called "black friday" is because this day more than any other helps stores get back into the black.


RE: A week early...
By Keeir on 11/30/2007 6:23:41 PM , Rating: 2
To expand the other guys response a bit..

it has something to do with the US mentality of spending X number of dollars in a christmas season (rather than find the best value). Since there is a limited pile of X out there, stores compete to grab as much of the X pie as possible. IE, you can go to Wal-Mart, Target, Fyre's, Video Only, Best Buy, Circuit City, Costco, and more in my area for normal home theatre... if a store is not running something special, I am not going to even check it out so there is no way to make a sale. After christmas, people are going to spend Y, which is much much smaller than X, no matter what sale event is going on...


RE: A week early...
By timmiser on 11/30/2007 8:43:16 PM , Rating: 2
To play the devil's advocate, how does it make more sense to have the big sales AFTER Christmas (boxing day) when the average consumer has already spent a significant amount of their money on Christmas presents in the weeks prior?


RE: A week early...
By aos007 on 11/30/2007 9:59:07 PM , Rating: 2
Whether it makes sense or not, shops are chock-full of people on Boxing day and many people line up overnight in front of stores. It makes all the sense from store's point of view (clear up the inventory at low or no margin or even at a loss because keeping it for many months afterwards (when sales are very slow) is going to end up costing even more).

People probably set aside some money for Boxing day sale. Or more likely, load it up on their credit cards. I imagine there's a lot of impulse shopping on that day and a lot of regret when the CC bill comes next year (Christmas shopping = possibly budgeted, Boxing day shopping = most likely unplanned).


RE: A week early...
By Locutus465 on 11/30/2007 10:08:17 PM , Rating: 2
Sounds much like black friday, only the purpose of black friday is to sproose up your books, not clear inventory.


RE: A week early...
By timmiser on 12/1/2007 1:35:24 AM , Rating: 2
So, by your description, the stores are unloading products that they couldn't sell prior to Christmas at rock bottom prices. Down here they call that, "After Christmas Sales".


RE: A week early...
By blaster5k on 11/30/2007 2:37:30 PM , Rating: 2
That's true.

I also wonder if HD-DVD buyers are more likely to rent than buy their own movies. People who are willing to pony up the extra cash for Blu-Ray might be more willing to spend on movies too. It's hard to say though. I know I only rent. Formats are always changing and I don't watch the same movies enough times to justify the cost of buying.


RE: A week early...
By av911 on 11/30/2007 4:52:55 PM , Rating: 2
I got on the $99 deal from Walmart, on the same day, bought Transformers HDDVD. Joined Netflix and started renting HDDVDs. So, my whole collection consists of 1 HDDVD title.


RE: A week early...
By Locutus465 on 11/30/2007 5:11:02 PM , Rating: 2
Did you send in for the 5 free? there is some decent selection... I've become an HDM junkie my self, I'm only buying standard def any more if there is no hd option.


RE: A week early...
By Gio6518 on 11/30/2007 11:39:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I got on the $99 deal from Walmart, on the same day, bought Transformers HDDVD. Joined Netflix and started renting HDDVDs. So, my whole collection consists of 1 HDDVD title.


that is a pretty typical statment from a HD-DVD owner which is why netflix rents more HD-DVD's

but you have to think that studio's really care about how many movies they're selling not players, granted there might be a little influence, but if sales arent there theyre gonna stick with the player that sells more

besides not only is blu-ray selling about 3 times more movies, theyre also selling 3 times more players (including PS3)


RE: A week early...
By Parhel on 11/30/2007 1:49:26 PM , Rating: 5
I don't trust the numbers that either camp provides. I don't think that they are lying, but the premise always seems to be skewed.

Why pick "Black Friday week," for example? I actually think this is the first time I've ever even heard that phrase. But here, they present it as if "number of units sold during Black Friday week" is a normal metric. Why not "units sold on Black Friday?"

Wasn't there a recent free disc promotion that may account for a large number of those sales? Are freebies considered sales? How much would the inclusion of Wal-Mart change the picture? My list of questions goes on and on. These numbers provided by the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray groups always seem very fishy to me.


RE: A week early...
By masher2 (blog) on 11/30/2007 1:57:47 PM , Rating: 2
Freebies are not considered sales. And though I'm a long-term HD-DVD supporter, I have to say the figures provided by the Blu Ray camp may carry a bit of "spin", but are technically accurate.


RE: A week early...
By Locutus465 on 11/30/2007 2:13:27 PM , Rating: 2
It depends on the type of freebie I think... Bundled won't, but what about in store freebies that are rung through the register similarly to a bogo sale? We already know bogo's count as extra sales even though you get a disc free, no reason to think "choose 5 free hd/dvd, or 10 free blu ray discs in store" wouldn't be counted. Personally that type of tallying tends to leave a bad taste in my mouth because of the likely hood a customer is going to take their free movies and sit until the war is over. But that seems to be the way things are.


RE: A week early...
By blaster5k on 11/30/2007 3:47:28 PM , Rating: 2
If that's true, then the 10 free (store bought, picked yourself) Blu-Ray movies deal with the PS3 might have helped Blu-Ray's numbers quite a bit. HD-DVD only had as many as 3 free that you could pick out in store -- correct me if I'm wrong.


RE: A week early...
By Locutus465 on 11/30/2007 4:05:01 PM , Rating: 2
that's pretty much accurate, how much that sale helps depends on how many people decided they could afford to drop 5 bills though... I know I couldn't :(


RE: A week early...
By JSK on 11/30/2007 6:05:34 PM , Rating: 2
read the article, it didnt include walmarts sales...


RE: A week early...
By timmiser on 11/30/2007 8:47:14 PM , Rating: 2
Doesn't really matter because most stores were offering free movies on black friday.

The point is that there is so much about these reports that we really don't know and there are so many paramaters involved as pointed out in these posts, that it is hard to put too much emphasis on any report.


RE: A week early...
By cubby1223 on 11/30/2007 3:39:38 PM , Rating: 5
But these numbers are from Nielsen/Videoscan, *not* from Sony


RE: A week early...
By Guyver on 11/30/2007 2:37:44 PM , Rating: 2
Very good point. Easy to overlook what should otherwise be obvious.


RE: A week early...
By cubby1223 on 11/30/2007 3:42:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's the week *after* Black Friday that one would expect to start seeing a large surge in HD-DVD sales.

It's the week *after* the $99 player sale on <br>November 2 that one would expect to start seeing a large surge in HD DVD (no hyphen) sales. We can play the waiting game all we want, but look at the movie releases coming up in December, then especially the lineups in January. It's not fair competition, Blu-ray is going to increase their sales lead even more so.


RE: A week early...
By EclipsedAurora on 11/30/2007 11:29:16 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. So far the only HD-DVD software worth to buy is The Transformers

All others good moives belongs to BluRay. It's not surprise that sales of BluRay discs outperform HD-DVD by a great margin!


RE: A week early...
By Gio6518 on 11/30/2007 11:43:35 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. So far the only HD-DVD software worth to buy is The Transformers

All others good moives belongs to BluRay. It's not surprise that sales of BluRay discs outperform HD-DVD by a great margin!

i almost agree with that statement i count 8 exclusive to hd-dvd, and that counting the exclusive WB's which are going to soon be released to BLU-RAY


RE: A week early...
By deeznuts on 11/30/2007 4:17:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's the week *after* Black Friday that one would expect to start seeing a large surge in HD-DVD sales.


You must have missed the proclamations of 100,000 Toshiba A2 sold the previous weeks to BF then? That is why people was expecting to see an uptick, but it's going the other way the last two weeks.


RE: A week early...
By Gio6518 on 11/30/2007 11:51:42 PM , Rating: 2
ni do wish HD-DVD would just concede

geez its like the Bush vs. Gore elections at least that was close

i dont want HD-DVD to concede cause i back Blu-Ray, (its because its pretty obvious, who's winning, even Ray Charles can see the writing on the wall)

it's because alot of people are going to be throwing out alot of money, on this format war no matter whos wins alot of people are gonna lose


RE: A week early...
By SiliconAddict on 12/1/2007 1:21:38 AM , Rating: 2
My money is on that most of those players are x-mas gifts. At most people are going to buy only a couple movies. I'm willing to be that most are netflixing many of the movies they want to watch. I was on blockbuster's website and 80% of their HD DVD's are in LONG WAIT or SHORT WAIT status. People just blew a wad on the player. They aren't going to drop another $200 on movies right off the bat.


HDDVD THE LOOK AND SOUND OF HUMILIATION
By xfrgtr on 11/30/07, Rating: -1
RE: HDDVD THE LOOK AND SOUND OF HUMILIATION
By xfrgtr on 11/30/07, Rating: 0
By retrospooty on 11/30/2007 9:21:12 PM , Rating: 1
well thats a very mature outlook you have. /rolls eyes.


Blu-Ray/HD-DVD vs. VHS/Betamax
By superdynamite on 11/30/07, Rating: -1
RE: Blu-Ray/HD-DVD vs. VHS/Betamax
By Locutus465 on 11/30/2007 1:39:31 PM , Rating: 3
Your exlusive studio comparison seems to be just a touch wrong.


RE: Blu-Ray/HD-DVD vs. VHS/Betamax
By masher2 (blog) on 11/30/2007 2:02:08 PM , Rating: 3
Quite a few things are "a touch wrong" with his post. Regarding just the studio figures, at present there are 39 total studios with BD releases, and 41 studios with HD-DVD releases.


RE: Blu-Ray/HD-DVD vs. VHS/Betamax
By Locutus465 on 11/30/2007 2:17:27 PM , Rating: 5
True, I picked on that one because he made it so obvious that he ignored universal as a studio... Then he explicitly broke out sony pictures (1 studio) into several components which on their own really don't count for much as indipendant studios these days.


RE: Blu-Ray/HD-DVD vs. VHS/Betamax
By DesertCat on 11/30/2007 2:30:28 PM , Rating: 2
Not to mention that Warner is not Blue-Ray exclusive (yet another error in the post). Warner is format neutral and releases movies in both formats. The Blue-ray camp keeps hoping that that they will go exclusive but they have not done that.


RE: Blu-Ray/HD-DVD vs. VHS/Betamax
By Spuke on 11/30/07, Rating: -1
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