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Sales indicate consumers aren't ready for Blu-ray yet

The consumer market was very happy to switch from VHS to DVD, but it appears that the transition to high-definition media isn’t being met with the same enthusiasm.

Any stunted growth of the high-definition generation was previously attributed to the ongoing format war between HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc. But with the format war over and Blu-ray Disc victorious, customers no longer face such a buyer’s barrier.

To the dismay of the Blu-ray Disc industry, acceptance and adoption of the latest in high-definition movie delivery is barely lukewarm. Most expected that the surrender of HD DVD would trigger a surge for Blu-ray Disc, but instead, sales of Blu-ray Disc hardware fell 40 percent from January to February, NPD Group reported.

The lull in sales didn’t improve much at all, rising only 2 percent from February to March. NPD declined to release specific sales numbers “for fear that it would be easy to identify individual retailers,” according to a New York Times blog. Actual figures are to be released later this year.

Cost is likely a top factor in the slow adoption of Blu-ray Disc, as even the cheapest player is hundreds more than an upscaling DVD machine. In other reasons, consumers may not immediately see the benefits of upgrading to Blu-ray Disc, which mainly provides increased quality of picture and sound. Features such as chapter skip, multiple language tracks and lack of rewinding tape are already present on DVD.

“When we surveyed consumers late last year, an overwhelming number of them said they weren't investing in a new next-generation player because their old DVD player worked well and next-generation players were too expensive,” said Ross Rubin, director of industry analysis at NPD. “It's clear from retail sales that those consumer sentiments are still holding true.”

While sales of Blu-ray Disc players may be stagnant, PlayStation 3 consoles are moving at a decent rate. According to the AP, ABI Research estimates that PS3s make up more than 85 percent of Blu-ray players in use this year and that the number of stand-alone players and Blu-ray-equipped PCs won't surpass Sony’s console base until 2013.



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By michal1980 on 5/1/2008 4:06:53 PM , Rating: 5
all the economic messes?




By rudy on 5/1/2008 4:10:13 PM , Rating: 5
Also despite what others feel I think the competition was good. Now that it is gone and Sony has no fear of competitors they are not slashing prices and not advertising nearly as much so there is little incentive or attention now. They are content to ride it out with little investment.


By pomaikai on 5/1/2008 5:01:34 PM , Rating: 4
Now that the format war is over it is no longer on the front pages anymore. Because of the lack of improvements other than image and sound no one really thinks about it as much. Are they still offering 5 free movies with the purchase of a player? That was a big reason they were selling also. The biggest problem with price is that if you want to step up to blu ray you really need to upgrade every DVD player in your house or you will only be able to watch the new blu ray movie you bought on one TV.


By Oakley516 on 5/1/2008 6:52:42 PM , Rating: 5
Not everyone is as wealthy as you, and may not have more than one DVD player in their home.


By SoCalBoomer on 5/2/2008 2:03:00 PM , Rating: 3
Other than that it wasn't relevant to the discussion.

The fact that he has several Blue-Ray devices isn't relevant to why the market isn't taking off.

High cost - yep.
No significant perceived improvement? yep.
Less exposure now that the format-war is over? Yep.

The fact that HE owns 5? Nope.


By JonnyDough on 5/2/2008 10:33:09 PM , Rating: 2
I was auto-rated down as soon as I posted. I'm curious, is "heck" the one that did it? What the heck, we can't say heck? Well, if this gets auto-rated down I guess I'll know. :-P


By SlyNine on 5/4/2008 1:43:33 AM , Rating: 3
Because you replied to a -1 comment


By JonnyDough on 5/5/2008 10:41:32 PM , Rating: 2
Oooh. I didn't know that's how it worked. Is there a like a list of rules and such for this silly system? It sure would be nice...


By JonnyDough on 5/3/2008 8:44:31 PM , Rating: 1
Your point? I think your point was "hey look at me, I'm better than everyone else!" You're not.

As far as me sucking off mom, well....

Wow there guy, you nailed it! Wow, yes! I live in my parent's basement and never had any hardship in life. You know me so well! That's called sarcasm. It's what we give to idiots.

I could elaborate and share my life story, but then that would leave me being you. So you made it in life and you owe it all to yourself. Good job!

Now if only you could also learn some wisdom, a little dignity, and HUMILITY you'd be all set. There's nothing worse than someone pointing out how great they are. Pride before a fall, after all!

Maybe you should quit ASSuming that everyone else is somehow lesser or not as capable as you. Do you know what ASSuming makes you? That's right. A jack-donkey. Quit your braying, nobody cares. We've all overcome things.

No wait, there's more. Apparently, you just don't get it.

You're special, just like everyone else. I'm glad you're proud of yourself Mr. Pious, but please learn to have respect for others. I know plenty of people that were forced to grow up fast and make their own way in life. Who are we, Hiltons? No sir, we've had to work too. Grow up already and start acting your age.


By gochichi on 5/2/2008 11:43:20 AM , Rating: 1
How is the Lite-On on the PC working for ya?

I have a nice computer, 4GB RAM, 2.4GHz Quad-core, with a 8600GT video card (it has a "video accelerator"). So if I slap a Lite-On Bluray drive, it should work fine right?

Specifically, how is the software that comes with it? Is it good enough?

Hmmm... so I guess you think it's totally worth it huh? I have a 24" 1200P LCD monitor which is what I'd be using.


By Gio6518 on 5/2/2008 12:33:13 PM , Rating: 2
software looks great but it comes only has 2ch have to pay for upgrade, your specs should be fine

got an 6400+ on a crosshair mobo
4gb corsair xms
8800gtx in sli
and 32 samsung hdtv 1080p
logitech z5500 speakers hooked up through an optical cable
so it really looks and sounds great
especially since the lite-on is about $130.00


By bfellow on 5/5/2008 9:02:30 AM , Rating: 2
I have a Lite-On BD-Rom drive and now I regret buying it.

It's only 4x and slow as hell. Talk about taking 3-5 minutes to load a disc plus however complicated a BD-J menu a movie has.


By djc208 on 5/2/2008 7:04:39 AM , Rating: 5
With DVD players as cheap as $20 and practially built into everything any more having multiple DVD players doesn't require a six figure salarly.

Most people however, only have one HDTV in their house, and even if they have more than one, the others are problably smaller, cheaper TVs which probably didn't cost much more than an BD player to begin with.


By StevoLincolnite on 5/2/2008 10:25:25 AM , Rating: 2
And yet, with the Prices of Fuel, Food and everything increasing, and some of the silly large debts people have, they are probably more inclined to keep that $20 than spend it on a DVD player.
Thus it all works hand in hand, and here in Australia DVD players usually hang around the $40+ range and our Dollar as well as Average wage is very similar to the United states, I personally don't own a DVD player, except the one I have my computer, which funny enough never gets used for watching DVD's I generally just use Downloaded content and watch it on the Australian Standard 575P Television which I'm happy with.


By gochichi on 5/2/2008 11:54:34 AM , Rating: 3
Ha!

Ummm, do buy domestic products as well bro. Many of us are hurtin'.

Do you find that Bluray is better enough than HDTV over cable or DirecTV which is more convenient?

I don't think it's so much a price issue as it is an issue of a flood of alternatives. You can download a "good enough" HD movie from Apple TV, or an XBOX 360, cable and the like or rent a DVD for $1.00 and rip it in 15 minutes so I can watch it whenever I want without lugging a disk.

My conclusion is that there are too many alternatives. DVD piracy and its simplicity and practicality is not negligible.

The HDDVD/BLuray competition took away much of the thunder that disks had. Half of the early adopters are pissed too because they went with HDDVD.

PS. You should really consider giving to charity.


By Gio6518 on 5/2/2008 12:40:54 PM , Rating: 2
i wish i could buy american, sadly our polititians give away all our manufacturing jobs, i do have directv i'll stick with blu ray you talk about buying american then you wont buy discs which primarilly go to american companies and actors, film crews etc,(you get my point) plus directv tops out at 1080i,
and as far as charity goes i do give $1000.00 a year to toys for tots,and more to other child related charities, i only feel sorry for the children, not the lazy adults that expect hand outs.


By gochichi on 5/2/2008 1:26:28 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not judging at all. I think it's great. I think it's useful to ask people that have a lot of crap about what crap is worthwhile and which isn't.

I'm cheap/poor and selfish so I rent DVD for a $1.00 at the local McD's and rip the movie off :)Or if the movie is really good and I have the time, I go to the theater and get myself ripped off.


By djc208 on 5/4/2008 10:37:05 AM , Rating: 2
You're by far the exception rather than the rule. Most people don't have a "gym" either, let alone the kind of "extra" cash laying around to buy 6 HDTVs, and if they do then they don't really fit in the above argument.

I only have one because it's all I need, being the only one in the house. But even a "cheap" $500 LCD isn't a minor purchase to most people, let alone a $400 BD player to go with it.


By JLL55 on 5/1/2008 7:51:04 PM , Rating: 2
I was wondering, I saw on the Blu-ray website that they can play regular DVD's... Am I mistaken?


By Haltech on 5/1/2008 8:36:18 PM , Rating: 3
True, same with an HD-DVD hardware also


By bryanW1995 on 5/1/2008 8:39:28 PM , Rating: 3
yes, and blu-ray players also upscale your old dvd's to a higher picture quality.


By jonp on 5/1/2008 11:58:16 PM , Rating: 3
Yes, but only through HDMI, NOT component connections.


By anotherdude on 5/2/2008 7:54:27 AM , Rating: 2
Just asking - Will it at least upscale to 720p over component or do you need HDMI to get any upscale at all?


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 5/2/2008 8:11:26 AM , Rating: 2
HDMI for any resolution/upscale past 480p.


By Lightning III on 5/2/2008 9:58:09 AM , Rating: 2

If you use Any DVD and just dupe a copy from netflix it removes the encrytion and then it will upscale over component.


By encryptkeeper on 5/2/2008 8:49:25 AM , Rating: 3
Another price war that's going to have to be fought is with DVDs themselves: namely the fact that you can pick up a DVD 2 months after it's release for 10-15 bucks. Most of the movies that first came out on BluRay 2 years ago are STILL 30 bucks.


By jrb531 on 5/2/2008 4:04:28 PM , Rating: 2
This is my plight. I rent from Blockbuster online (after Netflix blocked me from watching online movies because I installed their software on more than 4 computers - 3 of which did not work due to DRM!)

So I get a movie in the mail and it gets watched all over the house as everyone has a cheap DVD player. I can put that standard DVD in my upscale DVD player and while it's not "true" HD DVD it's "good enough."

If I was to buy a Blu-thingie I would be locked into watching those movies on the one TV and the rest of the home is effectivly locked out from movie rentals.

Sony has won the war but were are the price drops? IMHO they do not want price drops right now because the current price is driving PS3 sales! They know if Blu-Ray drops lower than PS3 prices then a good portion of their PS3 sales go away.

So once again the consumer is at the mercy of Sony trying to force us into buying what we do not.

Can anyone tell me why a PS3 is the cheapest Blu-Ray player on the market? After all there is far more in a PS3 than is needed in a standalone Blu-Ray player.

So for now I'll enjoy my cheap DVD's on my $45 upscaling DVD player on my 50" DLP and while it's not perfect it's good enough for me and I suspect most people.

So keep those Blu-Ray players expensive.
So keep those Blu-Ray discs expensive.

After all, nothing gets John-Q Citizen to want to buy something when they have to pay 5-6 times the cost for maybe a 30-50% improvement in quality.

Hmmmmm

Upscaling DVD player = $45
Blu-Ray Player = $350+

I wonder why the average joe is not lining up to buy into Blu-Ray?

-JB


By SlyNine on 5/4/2008 1:54:46 AM , Rating: 2
Because, last I knew, They loose money on the PS3. They do this so they can make it up with software sales.


By jtyson on 5/1/2008 8:54:28 PM , Rating: 2
Very true. I think now that Blu-Ray has won the format war, the most important thing is to make Blu-Ray discs as versatile and widespread as DVDs are. Right now they're primarily being used for movies, but once we start to see Blu-Ray drives being standard on PCs and used as a legitimate storage medium, the companies will have no choice but to drop the prices on the players and discs. Once Blu-Ray technology is commonplace, people will no longer have to pay a premium.

Basically, it needs to replace DVDs. It's just getting to that point that's taking forever...


By masher2 (blog) on 5/1/2008 11:36:19 PM , Rating: 3
I think its going to take a great deal longer than most people think. Right now studios see Blu Ray as *extra* revenue; a more profitable outlet than standard DVD. Why drop prices and cut your margins?

BD disks will remain a price premium....up to the point at which consumers begin refusing to buy movies in standard DVD any longer.

This is essentially the same pricing path that DVD followed over VHS. I see no reason for it to not repeat again.


By callmeroy on 5/5/2008 3:14:57 PM , Rating: 2
Definitely it will happen...eventually....its going to take quite a while (especially with the crappy economy).

Unless..hmmm..if only the government made some kind of stimulus plan..........(LOL)

;)


By bpurkapi on 5/2/2008 2:17:57 AM , Rating: 3
why would pc's use bd as a storage medium, we have cheap hdd's , flash drives, and best of all internet storage. I personally hate all discs and want everything online that way when my hardware craps out I can easily get it back, or I can access it from any web terminal. Disc = Dumb.


By feraltoad on 5/2/2008 4:14:32 AM , Rating: 2
Still, having a writable disc with 10x the capacity of a DVD would go a long way towards making discs attractive for storage again. That is, as you stated, if the prices per GB of those discs weren't twice as expensive as a hdd.

If someone had a DVD binder full of discs and a stack of hard drives who would have thought that the HDDs would be the cheaper of the two? It just seems ludicrous that the usage costs of a reusable metal mechanical medium would be lower than plastic single use writable discs.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 5/2/2008 8:13:38 AM , Rating: 4
Except BR-Disc is only 5x bigger than a DVD.


By ytsejam02 on 5/2/2008 1:00:50 PM , Rating: 2
Depends on the BR. I don't know if they manufacture them yet, but in theory BR is 25GB/layer. so if you make it dual layer, dual sided, that's 100GB and about 22x bigger than DVD.


By symbul on 5/2/2008 1:51:31 PM , Rating: 2
Well considering that you can buy dual layer standard DVDs now, BR has a only a 2.5 times storage advantage. The question is does a BR disc cost more than 2.5 times the cost of a DL standard DVD? Even if the BR disk becomes cheaper, how much time will it take to offset the cost difference between the players/writers (DL DVD writers are dirt cheap).


By ytsejam02 on 5/2/2008 3:15:01 PM , Rating: 2
Absolutely, in fact, good point, I totally disregarded that DVDs can have the same format of dual layer, dual sided. :-) So technically that's, 18GB, which is closer to 5. My bad. In fact, why bother extrapolating it at all... just compare layer to layer...

Anyway, yeah, cost and convenience. Since it's obviously more convenient to have BR's lying around cause they hold so much data, but you have to be willing to pay a lot more.

The prices will come down eventually. Perhaps fueled by the PC market since that's the real value in buying blank BR's. As for the movies... I'm in no rush to upgrade. I already have an upconverter, and it's not like I'm going to rebuy all of my movies. Some of my all time fav's don't even have blu-ray equivalents.


By Reclaimer77 on 5/2/2008 3:26:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The prices will come down eventually. Perhaps fueled by the PC market since that's the real value in buying blank BR's.


I just bought 100 Taiyo Yuden's for .32$ each, probably the best blanks money can buy in DVD+R. Last time I checked a Blu Ray blank was like $15 bucks ! Making coasters can and will happen. Disks do get ruined. A 15 buck loss per coaster ? You know, really, no thank you. I don't think the price could possibly " come down " enough for BR to be a viable PC backup media. Especially since Sony is fighting so hard to prevent Blu-Ray from being easily ripped/encoded/burned.


By JonnyDough on 5/3/2008 8:50:13 PM , Rating: 2
Why can't we use online for backup and use the discs? I'd love to DL movies and rip them to a disc. Why can't we get a system where you may burn it to a disc once, or send an old scratched disc via post and receive a free replacement? Why do we have to settle for scratched discs that no longer work?


By kamel5547 on 5/1/2008 4:13:23 PM , Rating: 5
I have a feeling that is a minor part of the problem...

Frankly I'm in the same boat as everyone, why should I bother to upgrade to Blu-Ray? I'd need to get a new TV to even be able to see the difference, and I'd need a new reciever to get the benefit of the sound quality. TO top it off the discs are more expensive.

Too much of an investment when what I have now works jsut fine, I think I can find something else to blow a couple grand on.


By djc208 on 5/2/2008 7:16:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'd need to get a new TV to even be able to see the difference, and I'd need a new reciever to get the benefit of the sound quality. TO top it off the discs are more expensive.


That's one of the huge reasons BD won't take off like DVD did. DVDs worked with your existing TVs, which was basically every household in the US (and most other countries). BD only works with HDTVs which is still a much smaller user base (25% was the last figure I think I saw for the US). So even if the players were $100 you'd only have a max of 25% of the market that would be interested, and only a percentage that would actually upgrade even then.


By marvdmartian on 5/2/2008 10:26:12 AM , Rating: 2
You hit the nail right on the head. DVD players only required you to hook up to your existing tv set to enjoy the technology, while hi-def players required you to spend much more money to get the full effect.

Add to that the fact that an upscaling dvd player will play my existing dvd's at near top-end HD quality, at a fraction of the cost of the BR players. Why then would I bother, unless I was just one of those people that HAS to have the latest & greatest.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not getting down on those people, as they're the ones that cause the prices to eventually come down for the rest of us. But until a BR player comes out for <$100, I won't bother....and it's likely we'll see a newer, better technology breakthrough before that happens, imho.


By maverick85wd on 5/1/2008 4:22:18 PM , Rating: 2
I would guess most people interested in HD-capable players (for the immediate time being) bought them last year when they started to gain steam and were always in the news... around the holiday season.

Now if a person wants a BD-player the PS3 is a smart option because not only is it constantly being upgraded in regaurds to it's BD-playing capabilities, you can play video games on it too. I'm buying one when the MGS4 bundle is finally released :o)


By maverick85wd on 5/1/2008 4:23:15 PM , Rating: 1
*regards

/edit button


By darkblade33 on 5/1/2008 5:36:19 PM , Rating: 2
This is nothing to do with economics..

Bluray was adopted over HD-DVD because NEITHER was selling well at all... move sales on both were slow.. a choice was made to put all the resources into one - or risk seeing both die.. the logic being one has a better chance then both fighting against each other.. and many companies did support both at one time or another..

I firmly beleive bluray will NEVER see DVD-like popularity.. it may get close, but I doubt it'll be very close.

Look at music sale trends.. last year music downloads where still 3rd place behind cd ( media ) sales .. this year they are number TWO .. closing in on 1st place. Buying entertainment data on physical media is becoming a thing of the past..


By xsilver on 5/1/2008 8:13:41 PM , Rating: 3
??
3rd) digital downloads
2nd) physical cd sales
1st) ??? radio? pirates? spiritual enlightenment?


By wordsworm on 5/1/2008 9:58:28 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I firmly beleive bluray will NEVER see DVD-like popularity.. it may get close, but I doubt it'll be very close.


You say that as if DVD sales were rocketing in their second year rather than taking years to catch up with VHS. In the beginning, when you went to the video store, you could buy an expensive DVD or a relatively cheap VHS. The selection was terrible (for DVDs). DVD players were expensive.

I'm slow to adopt anything. The first DVD player I got was a Pioneer burner for my computer at about $120. The first component DVD player I got was $60. All this happened about 6 years ago, a full 11 years after the instantiation of the first commercially available DVD player. (1993)

A few nights ago I went looking for Blu-Ray hardware and noticed that the burners are around $299 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
I can get a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player for about $199. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
I also have more money than I did when I finally bought my DVD players (which coincidentally was when I was a student at uni), I have a penchant for buying super cheap stuff which I suspect HD DVD movies will be in the near future as companies try to unload their good, yet now defunct stock, not to mention garage sale value in the next 2-3 years. In any case, I digress.

Blu-Ray may or may not see DVD-like popularity. However, this is not the time to gauge that. When all the equipment and Blu-rays themselves are in the $12/disc - $100 player/$150 burner area, Blu-Ray will start to overtake DVD. People will say, when they're getting a new media player, "Well, this player is only $40 more and I can watch both my DVDs and start watching Blu-Rays." That's all at least 3-4 years away from now I estimate. In fact, I fully expect Blu-Ray to catch on faster for the simple fact that it also plays DVDs, unlike the DVD players being unable to play VHS.

In any case, I fully disagree with everything you said. I just chose to rant about that one comment I quoted.


By retrospooty on 5/1/2008 10:53:47 PM , Rating: 2
"When all the equipment and Blu-rays themselves are in the $12/disc - $100 player/$150 burner area, Blu-Ray will start to overtake DVD."

Yes, but without competition, BR isnt dropping and wont see those prices for years... By then flash media will be cheaper, faster, more economical and have more capacity to boot...


By wordsworm on 5/1/2008 11:51:16 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Yes, but without competition, BR isnt dropping and wont see those prices for years
I disagree completely. With one format having been chosen, it will allow competitive companies, such as LG, Sony, Phillips, etc, to focus their attention on Blu-Ray, discovering ways to reduce the costs of manufacture/price, etc., rather than having to split their attention between two different formats. VHS became cheap well after Beta lost the war.

I don't expect flash media to ever become competitive with optical. I'd like to see where you got that idea from. As far as being faster is concerned, optical is far from depleted technology. I'm certain that when media displays have increased their display properties, there will be a better optical technology to supplant BR.


By retrospooty on 5/2/2008 8:37:06 AM , Rating: 2
"I don't expect flash media to ever become competitive with optical. I'd like to see where you got that idea from"

I got that from an article posted here at DT. I forget who, but one of the industry bigwigs was theorizing BR will never catch on big, becasue by the time its affordable to the masses, Flash media will be cheaper, larger,faster etc. The theory is its all data, bits and byts etc... Would you rather carry 5 movies around on 5 BR discs or stick it all on a tiny flash card in your pocket (unnoticed at that). Its acompelling arguement... In a few years we will have 32, 64 and even 128 GB flash media (maybe SDHC or a variant) selling extremely cheap.


By wordsworm on 5/2/2008 9:01:27 AM , Rating: 2
I have about 200 DVDs for a total of about 1,000 GB. If in 3-4 years I start collecting BRs the way I am DVDs, that would be in the neighborhood of 10 TB. Anyways, I can't see a flash drive replacing an optical disc any time soon. A 5 or 8 GB flash drive will never go for 50 cents. The Internet backbone, at least in the US, is proving to be very poor and inadequate for much humbler requirements than downloading DVDs/BDs and then saving them on magnetic or flash drives. I simply can't see it working as a replacement in the next 10 years.


By retrospooty on 5/2/2008 9:23:25 AM , Rating: 1
Yes, but just because you cant see it, doesnt mean it wont happen... and we aren't talking about today, we are talking about a few years down the road. remember just 5 or so years ago 16GB SD card was a hundred dollars, now we have 16GB SDHC cards for less than $100. It drops really fast... especially when bought in bulk.


By retrospooty on 5/2/2008 9:34:12 AM , Rating: 2
oops...damn typos... 16 mb 5 or so years ago, now is 16GB.


By wordsworm on 5/2/2008 9:38:35 AM , Rating: 3
Even the cheapest flash drives are about $8 for a 256MB unit. No matter what happens to flash, it won't be 50 cents per unit like a DVD or what a BR will be in about 3-4 years.


By retrospooty on 5/2/2008 9:49:07 AM , Rating: 1
obsolete retail products like a 256mb flash card and mass produced standard format (if adopted by media companies as a format) are 2 totally different prices. If it were to catch on, studios would buy them by the millions of units and they would be competitively cheap.

Who knows though. We will have to wait and see. I do know one thing.... BR needs to drop prices to be adopted by the masses, and if that doesn't happen, SOME other standard will be created and adopted to fill that gap.


By wordsworm on 5/2/2008 10:01:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I do know one thing.... BR needs to drop prices to be adopted by the masses,


I think the biggest factor in inhibiting BR sales is the cost of the discs and the terrible selection offered in that format. I wouldn't be surprised to see BR take another 7-9 years before it hits equal status with DVD. But I cannot accept the postulate that flash will compete at all with optical media. It has its place, and its penetration will expand. Nonetheless, it won't be optical that it supplants.


By BansheeX on 5/2/2008 1:16:44 AM , Rating: 2
You're an idiot. No competition? Those studios and manufacturers are all competing with each other for your purchase. By your rationale, DVD should have stayed perpetually high because there was no competing format. But it didn't. Over the course of several years, players went from $500 to $100. Why are we expecting anything quicker this time around?

In fact, this entire thread is alarmist, impatient pap. Here we are, a few months into the year, and everyone thinks blu-ray was supposed to supplant DVD overnight because it beat HD-DVD? Since when? This was going to take years to get a foot in the door from the VERY BEGINNING. Even HD-DVD sold like sh$t compared to DVD and at $150 players no less. Until the library of releases gets better and more people buy HDTVs, this will remain a niche format. Stop lamenting already, Jesus.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 5/2/2008 8:16:30 AM , Rating: 2
The BD Association is not licensing BR to the cheap suppliers that typically force the market down. Right now the only companies authorized to produce BR players are in the price premium category. That will keep prices higher, longer.


By wordsworm on 5/2/2008 8:31:22 AM , Rating: 2
I tend to think of LG as one of those 'cheap suppliers.' Perhaps you could elaborate on what you mean along with providing a source for the comment.


By Spuke on 5/2/2008 10:15:29 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe a few years ago I would've agreed but LG makes some top notch stuff now.


By retrospooty on 5/2/2008 8:30:48 AM , Rating: 2
I am an idiot? thats nice... thanks. Your (still) blind devotion to a disk format (that sounds rediculous even thinking about it) has become really old. I was merely stating that once HD-DVD got out, BR stopped dropping in price, in spite of assurances form yourself specifically. According to execs at Samsung and Sony (as reported here at DT a few weeks ago) BR prices wont be dropping anytime soon.

I never saw a DVD player for $500 , much less $1000 like BR started out at. I have never, ever seen any DVD player for over $300, and It did not take 5 years for it to get cheap. I do recall getting a progressive scan DVD player in 2004 for $250, last year, in 2007, just 3 years later, you could get them anywhere on th net for $30. BR is not on that kind of a track.

Get a habit other than Blue Ray... you are appearing to be both narrow-minded and nerdy at the same time.


By BansheeX on 5/2/2008 10:04:26 AM , Rating: 2
If you think that BD is permanently stuck at the current pricing, you are indeed an idiot. It is not unusual at all for a product to have sale prices in the xmas season only to have the price spike back up in spring.

quote:
I was merely stating that once HD-DVD got out, BR stopped dropping in price, in spite of assurances form yourself specifically.


I dare you to go back and find where I predicted anything remotely like what you were hoping for. Price decreases are historically quite gradual for any tech product. Only royalty battles like this one see the kind of volatility we've already experienced.

And despite the inordinate praise, what HD-DVD fans are not grasping here is the role that Toshiba's pricing played in its demise. The Toshiba player pricing was artificially low and one of the reasons they lost, because only they were making players for it. No other producers wanted to because they didn't want to lose money like Toshiba. It made no business sense. That gave consumers less choice and the perception that Toshiba had less support and less of a chance to win.


By Spuke on 5/2/2008 10:22:20 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It made no business sense. That gave consumers less choice and the perception that Toshiba had less support and less of a chance to win.
Where do you get this stuff from? And why does it matter? It's just a format dude not the second coming of Christ.


By retrospooty on 5/2/2008 10:31:52 AM , Rating: 2
I didnt say BR prices were permanently stuck, its that they are dropping too slowly to be adopted by the masses.

"I dare you to go back and find where I predicted anything remotely like what you were hoping for. "

I dont have the time nor inclination to dig through months of posts of yours or mine to find the exact quote... I do know that it was here at DT and you were replying directly to me. I was concerned that since Toshiba gave up on HD-DVD, the BR camp would slow down dramatically on dropping prices... You said not to worry, by the end of 08 we will see 1080p BR players for $200 and likely to drop another $100 by the end of 09.

Anyhow, its pointless debating with you. There doesnt seem to be anything I, or anyone can say to you that will stop your personal jesusification of the BR format. That about says it all.


By wordsworm on 5/2/2008 11:13:44 AM , Rating: 2
By elgoliath on 5/2/2008 3:26:15 PM , Rating: 2
Awesome. How much for the rest of the PC so I can hook it up to my TV.....?

I do believe people are referring to stand alone players, not PC drives.


By wordsworm on 5/2/2008 11:35:13 PM , Rating: 2
For another $169 with Linux you get the PC. They can be had dirt cheap these days. So, for $320 you get a computer and a Bluray player. But, the better argument against is that most people don't want to operate a computer to watch a movie (although I do). So, I pay more attention to the computer components than the stand alone players.


By retrospooty on 5/2/2008 3:56:00 PM , Rating: 2
That is an internal player, not a standalone. Most people arent going to hook a media center PC up to thier TV... Big difference, although that is a great price for those with a media PC.


By Spuke on 5/2/2008 10:20:51 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I never saw a DVD player for $500 , much less $1000 like BR started out at.
Dude, DVD players did indeed start out over $1000 when first introduced to the market. The thing is I don't remember how long it took for the prices to come down. I wasn't in the market at the time.


By cicatriz63 on 5/2/2008 10:58:37 AM , Rating: 2
So you recall buying a progressive scan in 2004 for $250 huh. The first DVDs were released in 1997, so I guess you're right, it didn't take 5 years, it took almost 7. Normal DVD players were just as expensive at the start. Blue ray is on the same track.

Get a clue before you post useless nonsense.


By retrospooty on 5/2/2008 3:54:24 PM , Rating: 2
"Get a clue before you post useless nonsense."

If you would bother to read and comprehend before being as a$$, then you would underdstand why I added the word "progressive scan" The PS players were released much later and were more expensive at first (like anything). My point is they dropped like crazy. 3 years later and they are $30


By aliasfox on 5/3/2008 10:24:12 AM , Rating: 2
Of course there were expensive DVD players back in the day - my parents bought an entry level Sony DVD-S330 (I think that's the model) for $340 in 1999. The model above that (DVD-S550) went for $500 - which I recently bought from Goodwill just to play around with. DVD players existed long before 1999, and I remember reading articles about "affordable" DVD players in the $600 range in one of the home theater magazines of the day.

It took VHS about a decade to drop solidly below the $100 mark - there's no way BluRay will take that long. DVD dropped from $500 to $50 in the span of under five years on the marketplace - between 1997 and 2001. I don't think we'll see such a precipitous drop so quickly with BD, but the market will be flooded with ~$200 BD players by the time the DTV switchover happens - cheap enough that people will pick one up with their new TVs (I'm expecting that lots of people will buy new TVs early next year whether they really need to or not).


By 16nm on 5/1/2008 6:59:32 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
all the economic messes?

It's hard to think about buying a dvd player when it costs $50 every time you put gas in your car.


By Smartless on 5/1/2008 7:16:33 PM , Rating: 2
Imagine a blu-ray player IN an Escalade, spinning rims, Play-boy bunny girlfriend, a US senator, a gallon of triple whip Starbucks hot cocoa.

That would be the biggest waste of money possible in one garage!!


By MADAOO7 on 5/1/2008 8:14:50 PM , Rating: 2
Whoa whoa whoa, there is some in the Playboy Bunny....well...at least I'd get some value out of her if you know what I mean.....


By HrilL on 5/1/2008 9:26:22 PM , Rating: 1
too bad girls like that are not exactly free... They'll spend your money faster then you can say Jiminy Cricket.


By SavagePotato on 5/2/2008 10:11:39 AM , Rating: 2
$50 is that all?

Last time was about $110 for me, and if prices rise to what they are saying this summer it will be closer to $200.


By ytsejam02 on 5/2/2008 1:02:05 PM , Rating: 2
That's both sad and funny, all at the same time.


By armax1980 on 5/1/2008 9:52:26 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps if the blu-ray disc price wasn't $30(on-sale price) more people would switch over. Every time I go to bestbuy and look at the movies, I see the same movie title DVD for $16 and blu-ray $30-$40. For $30 bucks you can sometimes get the special edition DVD with extra goodies but for the HD counterpart you only get a disc.


By EricMartello on 5/1/2008 10:18:53 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
by armax1980 on May 1, 2008 at 9:52 PM Perhaps if the blu-ray disc price wasn't $30(on-sale price) more people would switch over. Every time I go to bestbuy and look at the movies, I see the same movie title DVD for $16 and blu-ray $30-$40. For $30 bucks you can sometimes get the special edition DVD with extra goodies but for the HD counterpart you only get a disc.


That's true...BluRay discs are waaaay overpriced. I would not pay more than $20 for a movie, regardless of its format...and I believe most people would share that view. It's not worth it to pay $30-$40 for just the movie with no special bonuses or anything. The dollar to entertainment ratio is out of line. Once you cross the $25, you are in gaming territory...video games >>> movies when it comes to entertainment value.


By jeff834 on 5/1/2008 11:07:20 PM , Rating: 2
Have to agree here. I've had a PS3 since shortly after release (March or so of 07) and I didn't buy my first BR movies until a couple months ago when Target had buy 1 get one free for $30. Since then I've been watching BB/CC/Target ads for a deal that good and have yet to see it.

I wasn't first on the DVD bandwagon, I got my first player for my PC in 99 when I was in college. DVD really took off in 2000/2001 when players were on sale for like $50 in the holiday season, and I expect pretty much the same from BR. My thoughts are ideal price point for BR players about $150 and discs about $20, then you'll see some sales.


By Hiawa23 on 5/1/2008 10:42:18 PM , Rating: 2
when families are having trouble keeping their homes, skyrocketing gas prices, high food, I am sorry but HD just isn't important


By xxsk8er101xx on 5/1/2008 11:21:38 PM , Rating: 4
Or .. perhaps ... the fact that

BLU-RAY IS A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE!

Just a thought ... Maybe if hd-dvd won with their 100 dollar players people would be more willing to switch. No one is going to spend 200 dollars and higher for something they aren't even sure will stick around.


By Regs on 5/2/2008 7:28:56 AM , Rating: 4
Maybe it's because people spend 80-200 dollars on gas a week...

Maybe it's also the enormous manufacturing costs of a blue ray player?

Maybe it's because Movie Studios were dumb enough to dump HD-DVD for something more expensive for the consumers?

Bottom line is....I own a PS3, I want my Matrix Trilogy and Gladiator on Blue Ray please.


By Screwballl on 5/2/2008 10:02:51 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
all the economic messes?


Thats just crap the mainstream media is blasting into peoples heads...

There is no recession or depression, it is a period of slowed growth, but it is still growth. In the time that the current president has been in office, there has been 3 quarters of negative growth:
1: when Clinton was leaving office and Bush taking over, Clinton screwed with short term financials in his last few days
2 & 3: just after 9/11

Recession: multiple quarters (typically 3 or more) of zero or negative growth.


By AlphaVirus on 5/2/2008 11:30:05 AM , Rating: 2
Do you realize we have been at a near-zero growth for a long time. Not sure why you are trying to claim its nothing but media blasting, the economy is is the drains.
http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/2008/...

2008 Q1 - .6
2007 Q4 - .6
2007 Q3 - 4.9
2007 Q2 - 3.8
2007 Q1 - .6

So you can keep trying to think media is simply fooling the people, but our market is in a rut. The numbers I posted simply represent Real GDP from the government.


Price too high
By CorrND on 5/1/2008 4:12:09 PM , Rating: 4
Part of the problem is that prices on Blu-ray bumped when HD-DVD dropped out. Anybody watching the market is probably aware of that. When the war was still raging, I got this player at Fry's for $300:

http://electronics.pricegrabber.com/blu-ray-hd-dvd...

And there's also the fact that only 25% of US households have an HDTV. So, right off the bat, Blu-ray only has one quarter of the possible market that DVD had when it came out and was playable on any TV.




RE: Price too high
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 5/1/2008 4:17:30 PM , Rating: 5
I'm waiting on the BR50 from Samsung. I figure why buy a spec 1.0 or 1.1 player when 2.0 are just around the corner. To top it off, the spec on the BD50 from Samsung has an impressive features list compared to other stand alone BR players.


RE: Price too high
By cmdrdredd on 5/1/2008 7:04:31 PM , Rating: 3
The BD50 is not Samsung. It's Panasonic.


RE: Price too high
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 5/1/2008 7:55:25 PM , Rating: 1
Right, my bad lol. I was thinking Panasonic but wrote Samsung.

I fail.


RE: Price too high
By Anosh on 5/2/2008 6:28:46 AM , Rating: 2
Failblog for the failure in you.
http://failblog.wordpress.com/


RE: Price too high
By RamarC on 5/1/2008 4:28:03 PM , Rating: 4
price is the biggest problem . blu-ray is playable on practically any TV since most all players have composite and s-video outputs.

but with discs 2x-3x the cost of DVDs and the lowest price for a player still $400, it won't woo that many folks that quickly.

sadly, i planned to buy an hd-dvd player for $150 (then the dominos started fallig). but that option was taken away from me and every other consumer by the movie studios and big retailers.


RE: Price too high
By CorrND on 5/1/2008 4:35:05 PM , Rating: 2
I shouldn't have used "playable." I meant that only the 25% of people with an HDTV can enjoy the improved resolution of Blu-ray, whereas DVD was simply the perfection of a long-existing resolution standard.


RE: Price too high
By maverick85wd on 5/1/2008 5:45:16 PM , Rating: 2
I can agree with that. But I think even most people with an HDTV are waiting on price to go down a little... or 2.0 players


RE: Price too high
By Oregonian2 on 5/1/2008 6:49:00 PM , Rating: 2
And there is no hurry because DVDs are plentiful, rentable, cheap, and with an OPPO upscaling player, it looks great. Blu-Ray is better but it's not, IMO, the HUGE jump in both quality, longevity, and random-access improvement that DVD had over VHS. So, it'll happen, but no hurry -- just enjoying the new 58" 1080P Plasma itself -- with Blu-Ray being the next toy in a couple years when they're are both cheaper and higher performance (and the availability of cheap Blu Ray disks becomes known). When Walmart starts having a cheapie-bin with oldie-goldie movies in Blu-Ray, then the technology has finally arrived.

We bought our HDTV when our 13 year old Sony TV broke (happily during the Chrismas sale season). We understand from the store guys that this is the typical reason for folk buying a new HDTV set. So it may still be a while until the non-HD sets sold over the last ten years finally all fail and finally at least having the "market" become full sized. :-)


RE: Price too high
By hubajube on 5/1/2008 7:01:51 PM , Rating: 2
The price on Bluray is definitely too high right now but I was more interested in getting a HD DVR because I watch a LOT more TV than movies. I'm in no hurry to go to Bluray.


RE: Price too high
By gramboh on 5/1/2008 10:25:39 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly with a quality 58inch 1080p Plasma you will see a night and day difference between upscaled DVD and a GOOD Blu-ray title (if your set is calibrated properly). It's not even close. Try Transformers, No Country for Old Men, Pirates (any of the 3) etc. Upscaled DVD is good quality and fine for most people, but I don't agree that it is 'close' to Blu-ray on a 1080p 46+ inch display.


RE: Price too high
By Noya on 5/1/2008 11:39:54 PM , Rating: 2
I know, what a wasted of one of the best looking sets on the market.

Build a cheap HTPC with a BD drive, order NetFlix and rip away...


RE: Price too high
By Oregonian2 on 5/2/2008 2:13:29 PM , Rating: 2
Note also, I'm talking about GOOD DVD's being upscaled. Have you seen an OPPO HD981 upscale to 1080P? It's only about $230, but quality of upscale is supposed to be that of $1K ones. I've never believed upscaling could work all that well (data not being there and all that -- I'm an EE). But having used it on our panny TH-58PZ750U, it looks excellent with GOOD DVDs -- better than much of the HD we get from DirecTV or OTA (where our PBS 1080i station probably looks the best). Before my having seen what it does, I'd have agreed with you instantly, but not now. But then what "night and day" means is a matter of taste too. VHS->DVD was night and day.

P.S. - Note that I didn't say "as good as Blu-Ray", just that OPPO 981 quality upscaling of good DVDs can look very very good indeed. It also plays any region code as well as converts/upscales PAL discs which is something that has been handy on a few disks.


RE: Price too high
By gramboh on 5/4/2008 1:02:03 AM , Rating: 2
I know, upscaling on a good player does look really good, way better than non-upscaled from a $50 player, it's a big difference, but I still think that Blu-ray has sharpness, colour saturation and detail that just isn't present on DVD, upscaled or not. I agree good upscaled DVD can rival cable HD which is compressed to crap.


RE: Price too high
By jonp on 5/2/2008 12:05:19 AM , Rating: 2
Upscaling happens only through the HDMI connection.


RE: Price too high
By Oregonian2 on 5/2/2008 2:00:17 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, our OPPO HD981 has only an HDMI output, so even if I didn't want to upscale, it would be HDMI only anyway.


RE: Price too high
By michal1980 on 5/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: Price too high
By RamarC on 5/1/2008 8:06:45 PM , Rating: 2
toshiba's $900M loss wasn't due solely to the price cut. the loss is based on all expenses (whether manufacturing, distribution, sales, etc.).
http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUS...
heck, GM and Ford bleed red ink all the time and it's not because they're selling cars at a loss. and remember that the PS3 and Xbox360 were (still are?) sold below actual production cost.


RE: Price too high
By AlexWade on 5/1/2008 10:00:05 PM , Rating: 2
The only reason I have a HD DVD player is because I bought one at Wal-Mart for $100. I always wanted a PS3 (because it is the only Blu-Ray player you can buy that support Profile 2.0), but I couldn't afford it. And I was saving up for a PS3, but gas cost has eaten all of that savings. Now that the sales are gone, I am even less motivated to get a PS3 or any Blu-Ray player.

It isn't out of the realm of possibilities that Blu-Ray got a Pyhrric victory. It will be some time before the economy rebounds, and it will be even longer before HDTV's are in over 50% of the homes. By then, something better might be out. By then, maybe we can stream movies. Already my internet connection from my cable company is fast enough to stream a HDTV over-the-air show. It can't be much longer until it is fast enough to stream 1080p streams.


RE: Price too high
By gramboh on 5/2/2008 12:18:02 PM , Rating: 2
I think it will be a while before we can stream uncompressed Blu-ray titles. If you say an average Blu-ray disc is 35GB, a decent home cable connection is 10mbit, that is 35GB/1.25mb/s (ideal 100% speed with no overhead) = 7.78 hours to download, too slow to stream. With a 25mbit connection it would still take 3.09 hours to download a 35GB title, again too slow to stream.

You'd have to introduce compression which (in my opinion) ruins the entire point of enjoying HD content.


RE: Price too high
By jimbojimbo on 5/2/2008 2:29:19 PM , Rating: 2
True, our bandwidth can't support anything near streaming HD feeds but movies don't take up 35GB on the BR. You'll have to subtract all the audio tracks you don't want, all trailers, all extras. Also take into account most DVDs don't utilize all the space it has available either. I can't say how much one would take though since I don't have a BR drive. Too expensive.


RE: Price too high
By jonp on 5/2/2008 12:11:10 AM , Rating: 2
I think CorrND got it spot on. Player, recorder, and media prices are way too high for significant market penetration. And I think the market is even smaller than households with HDTV because it's high resolution is only available through HDMI; so those earlier HDTVs with only component inputs aren't good candidates for a purchase.


PS3 Sales
By KeithP on 5/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: PS3 Sales
By Goo on 5/1/2008 5:19:07 PM , Rating: 2
The other problem is the blow out sales after Toshiba drop the ball. I myself got a HD DVD player for $70 and a few HD DVD around $10 each. Even if there is no more HD DVD I have a $70 upscale player, why I need BR?


RE: PS3 Sales
By hubajube on 5/1/2008 7:03:30 PM , Rating: 2
I bought one too and, thankfully, it has a fantastic upscaler.


RE: PS3 Sales
By maverick85wd on 5/1/2008 5:43:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
will be upgradable to profile 2.0.


the PS3 already has 2.0 support as of 20 March

http://www.dailytech.com/searchresults.aspx?keywor...

among other goodies.


RE: PS3 Sales
By Inkjammer on 5/1/2008 5:43:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Hasn't the PS3 been out selling the Xbox 360 since the beginning of the year?
Yeah, the PS3 has sold more per month over the 360 since the start of '08, but if you look at the sales numbers for the entire year of '07, the two month lead the PS3 had are meaningless. Saying the PS3 dominated 360 in the start of '08 is FUD when you look at all the numbers, especially December '07. I write this as a person who owns both a 360 and PS3, so I say this with no bias.

The PS3 is definitely picking up, especially since the release of the 40GB, but it still has a long way to go.

X-Bit's Console Sales Chart
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20...


RE: PS3 Sales
By darkblade33 on 5/1/2008 5:48:51 PM , Rating: 1
Actually NO

It outsold Xbox 360 in Jan and Feb ( fact )
but I went to buy one and couldnt find one easily in Columbus, Ohio. I read at daily tech there was a parts shortage and Daily tech did call some cities and verify there was a real shortag e.

Daily Tech reports PS3 sales went back to 3rd place in M
arch ( this was reported in an April article here at Daily Tech )


RE: PS3 Sales
By Inkjammer on 5/1/2008 6:33:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:

Actually NO

It outsold Xbox 360 in Jan and Feb ( fact )...

I know it did. And I even said it did in my post, but that saying it outsold the 360 since the start of 2008 to show it's rising sales long term is also FUD. Which it is given all the other data.


RE: PS3 Sales
By darkblade33 on 5/1/2008 5:53:23 PM , Rating: 2
Ps3 outsold Xbox 360 in Jan AND Feb ..

Daily tech reported 360 was back in 2nd place surpassing PS3 ( 3rd place ) once again for March
08 ..

http://www.dailytech.com/Xbox+360+Ahead+of+PS3+in+...


RE: PS3 Sales
By amandahugnkiss on 5/1/2008 11:11:09 PM , Rating: 3
If I were to get a BR player I would like a standalone personally and know many other people who feel the same way for various reasons: shape - the PS3 is not a stackable device, lack of universal remote support - I hate that the controller acts as the remote and a harmony remote is not compatible, the lack of on console displays, a BR disc changer would be tough to implement on the PS3, etc... Also, not being a Sanyo, Panasonic, MS, etc... fanboy, but some people just do not want to support Sony if they can avoid doing so, I know my breaking point was the root kit, that was a deal breaker that I won't forget in this lifetime.


RE: PS3 Sales
By AlphaVirus on 5/2/2008 11:12:12 AM , Rating: 1
Shape - http://www.madcatz.com/Default.asp?Page=328& $20
Lack of universal remote - http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PlayStation-Blu-ray-Dis... $20
Avoiding fanboi-ism - priceless

There are some things money can't find, for everything else theres Google search.


RE: PS3 Sales
By omnicronx on 5/2/2008 1:28:47 PM , Rating: 2
That Stacker is really ugly(nor have I found one that resembles something I would like to show off), and the only remotes available for the PS3 are bluetooth only. Being labelled as a entertainment unit I always found it really sad they could not add a 2$ part.

I have a PS3 and I have those very same issues with the PS3 as the other poster.... does that make me a fanboi?

Sure 3rd part hardware is available, but these are some of the things Sony really should have thought about when they designed the PS3...


RE: PS3 Sales
By AlphaVirus on 5/2/2008 2:25:00 PM , Rating: 2
The stacker is really ugly? If you are more worried about showing off than functionality, then you should not express your complaint publically. Thats more of a personal problem if there is something that fills your needed function but you dont want it because you think its ugly.

Honestly I dont think sony was wrong for not including IR, its old technology and its about time more companies include bluetooth for remote control. Much futher range, easy to connect the devices without special codes, and does not need direct sight to function.

quote:
I have a PS3 and I have those very same issues with the PS3 as the other poster.... does that make me a fanboi?

Read my post again, I was not calling him a fanboi. He stated he did not want Sony because he was a Panasonic, and some other company, fanboy. So I just threw that in the joke.

quote:
Sure 3rd part hardware is available, but these are some of the things Sony really should have thought about when they designed the PS3...

A few things to think about,
PS3's shape is odd and wont allow you to stack anything right? Do you stack things on your 360 or Wii? I thought not...

That whole stacking argument is a load of crap, why would you stack things on a console in the first place?


RE: PS3 Sales
By jimbojimbo on 5/2/2008 2:40:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
That whole stacking argument is a load of crap, why would you stack things on a console in the first place?
Really? You really need to ask this? Do you think people with entertainment centers prefer to have each console sitting side by side?

Your irrational defense of the PS3 obviously paints you as a fanboi. Big time.


RE: PS3 Sales
By AlphaVirus on 5/7/2008 2:50:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Really? You really need to ask this?

Uh...yes? I see no problem is me asking that question.
quote:
Do you think people with entertainment centers prefer to have each console sitting side by side?

You just made me laugh. If you have an entertainment system, why would you be stacking consoles? You should have plenty of space for each console.

As mentioned before, why would you be stacking anything on a hot console system? If you want to call something irrational, cluttering the space of a hot electronic device is irrational.

Oh and it does not take a fanboi to know how to properly handle electronics. You do not put anything with a fan in an enclosed space, and you dont put anything on top of something that produces as much heat as a PS3 or 360.


RE: PS3 Sales
By jimbojimbo on 5/2/2008 2:35:11 PM , Rating: 2
AlphaVirus, you didn't read the original post or you simply ignored some key words in the prior post. He said "lack of universal remote support - I hate that the controller acts as the remote and a harmony remote is not compatible" I have yet to see a universal remote with Bluetooth control and almost are primarily infrared. They sell an infrared remote adapter for the PS3 but it costs $50 just for that. My DVD player is completely compatible with my Harmony and costs about as much as the remote adapter for the PS3.


PS3 vs. Stand Alones ATM
By InsidiousAngel on 5/1/2008 4:11:06 PM , Rating: 2
Just my 2 cents, but isn't the cheapest Blu-Ray player the same price as the 40GB model PS3? My guess would be the tech savvy buyers would rather own a PS3 than a stand alone unit at the same price.




RE: PS3 vs. Stand Alones ATM
By Chudilo on 5/1/2008 4:39:24 PM , Rating: 4
Actually I'd rather own a standalone BD player that is just a BD player but at half or less price of the PS3.
I don't care that it needs to have the same hardware. I am not paying 300+ for something that will be 100 or less within a year.


RE: PS3 vs. Stand Alones ATM
By rockyct on 5/1/2008 5:23:40 PM , Rating: 2
The problem is that they are not making any profit off of the PS3 hardware. The console probably costs less than $400 to manufacture now, but they are still making up the development costs and the losses from a year ago.

Standalone Blu-ray players are selling at a profit, so they aren't going to be priced nearly as competitive as the PS3. It's probably going to be a couple of years at least before we see the normal price of $100 for a Blu-ray player. That's just not going to happen anytime soon. We'll probably see them at $200 within a year, but no less than that. HD-DVD was taking a huge hit when they sold the players at that level.


RE: PS3 vs. Stand Alones ATM
By omnicronx on 5/2/2008 1:37:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
HD-DVD was taking a huge hit when they sold the players at that level.
In Canada a private company named Venturer sold HD-DVD players for 200$ at Walmart that were identical to the Toshiba HD-3 except for the LCD display (which was better on the venturer). As far as I know, they were not losing money even though they sold it at 200 Canadian(what incentive would they have to sell it for a loss?). I don't see how BD components could be anymore expensive, especially since HD-DVD players have always had the extra decoders (for PIP etc).

That said, I have a gut feeling BD group is artifically keeping prices high to keep BD a niche market as long they can. Why go through all the trouble of mass producing a product when you can leave DVD on the low end, and take in the incredibly high BD margins for as long as possible.


RE: PS3 vs. Stand Alones ATM
By itlnstln on 5/1/2008 5:31:13 PM , Rating: 2
I would like to own a standalone myself; however, the PS3 has one benefit that most, if not all, standalone players don't have, and that is upgradability. When new BD specs come out, if you have a 1.1 standalone player, chances are you cannot upgrade to 2.0 and so on. For me, if I were to buy, I would go for the PS3 for that reason alone. And, what the hell, you get a game console to boot. :)


RE: PS3 vs. Stand Alones ATM
By jimbojimbo on 5/2/2008 2:44:04 PM , Rating: 2
That's the thing. I do not want a game console. Why can't I get a device with the video playback feature minus all the extra crap which obviously SHOULD make it much much cheaper? It's for this fact that getting a BluRay drive for a PC seems to be the best option for right now. Still too expensive though.


It's called the post-holiday slowdown
By ddarko on 5/1/2008 4:52:34 PM , Rating: 1
Sales drop from January to February in everything. Sales are at an seasonal high in November/December/January because of the pre, holiday and post-holiday sales. Of course sales would drop in February; it does for everything! Sales dropped for Xbox 360 or Wii from January to February. Where are the stories saying the sky is falling? Apple's sales also dropped in January 2008 versus February 2008. OMG, Apple's going to go bankrupt!!

Get a clue and stop misinterpreting a seasonal and completely predictable drop in sales as shedding light on the success or lack thereof of the Blu-ray format. It may well be that the format won't hit the jackpot like DVD did. But nothing can be divined from month-to-month fluctuations in sales. The ONLY appropriate comparison is a comparison between the same monthly period, i.e. January 2007 versus January 2008. But January 2008 vs. February 2008? Utterly meaningless.




RE: It's called the post-holiday slowdown
By mholler on 5/1/2008 4:57:23 PM , Rating: 2
Although I agree with what your saying from a statistical analysis standpoint, I believe you're missing the larger point of the article which is that Blu-Ray did not see the significant increase in sales following the demise of HD DVD that they were expecting. For the last year analysts and industry experts have been telling the masses that the reason for the slow adoption of HD media is the lack of a clear choice for consumers and that doesn't appear to be the case.

It is becoming more and more obvious that it is price that will determine the adoption rate of this technology and not consumer indecision.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 5/1/2008 5:19:25 PM , Rating: 2
Hopefully this point will be kept in mind for the next generation of physical media.... (Holographic perhaps?)


RE: It's called the post-holiday slowdown
By adiposity on 5/1/2008 5:20:29 PM , Rating: 2
There will be an increase in sales as the other studios start releasing their products on Blu-ray. It makes little difference to the consumer that the studios have "switched" if they can't find the movies they want on Blu-ray yet. The only advantage right now is that consumers no longer can buy HD-DVD at most retailers and are being told not to buy it by some retailers. However, no one is going to buy for a format that doesn't have their favorite movie yet, so the real advantages of a unified format have yet to be seen.

And duh, the prices are too high and were too high for both formats. Which is why almost no one bought either format so far. But at least those who buy in now will know the format will be the standard format. And with standardization perhaps the prices will start to come down. Who knows.

Dan


By hubajube on 5/1/2008 7:20:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And with standardization perhaps the prices will start to come down. Who knows.
Hasn't come down so far. I'm quite content to wait it out until it does. I think I'll wait till it gets under $100.


But it's So Versital
By mikefarinha on 5/1/2008 4:37:55 PM , Rating: 2
With all the fanboys raging at how wonderful BluRay is for not only movies but PC storage I thought for sure that sales would explode for everything BluRay after the demise of HD-DVD.

Or maybe the HD-DVD folks were on to something when they said that 30GB is enough for HD movies but 50GB isn't enough to be useful as file storage.

Now we're in the BluRay world and paying a premium for a media disk that isn't, or ever will be, fully utilized.




RE: But it's So Versital
By SavagePotato on 5/1/08, Rating: -1
RE: But it's So Versital
By pomaikai on 5/1/2008 5:09:51 PM , Rating: 1
Or could it be that Toshiba didnt have the cash to pay off movie studios because they were passing it on to the consumer by taking such a big loss on the price of the players.


RE: But it's So Versital
By SavagePotato on 5/1/2008 6:03:24 PM , Rating: 1
Right, that's why they payed off Paramount.

The consumer had squat to do with their prices, they wanted to win at all costs.

Too bad it cost them all.


RE: But it's So Versital
By jimbojimbo on 5/2/2008 2:48:44 PM , Rating: 1
People keep blaming everything on gas prices but we've still got cheaper gas than most other countries. Maybe if people quit buying SUVs and crap I'd hear them out but uh-uh. I pay about $30/month for gas on my nice 30mpg car.


RE: But it's So Versital
By JonnyDough on 5/5/2008 10:49:56 PM , Rating: 2
You must drive one block to work. I zip an hour down the highway and back and it costs me $30.


RE: But it's So Versital
By darkblade33 on 5/1/2008 5:45:36 PM , Rating: 2
I doubt Bluray will become as popular as DVD has .. might get alot bigger, but still never reach the proportions that DVD did..

I think its chance as a data recorder will give it chances to survive.. but downloads will likely surpass buying media ( music cd's, movies ) in the future.. which mean move sale son bluray will never be close to DVD sales levels..


REASONS NOT TO INVEST IN BLU-RAY.
By JonnyDough on 5/2/2008 10:17:36 PM , Rating: 3
(in no particular order)

The economy stinks.

Down-loadable movies and streaming video.

New memory technologies may soon make Blu-Ray worthless.

DRM. (see next)

The whole "HDMI/HDCP? What's that?" mess.

The cheapest player on the Egg is about $400.

Blu-Ray movies are $25+

HD-DVD players went for <$100 as they faded away.

DVD's are bargain bin, far cheaper than they ever were before (and finally reasonably priced!) With hundreds of thousands of movies to watch, who needs new ones?

Not many new movies are that great anymore, sometimes the classics are better. The writers of today are un-inventive, and draw too much from old classics that had superior actors anyway. The same is happening in music. Show me an "original" band. They were "influenced heavily by...so and so old bands." This is part of why the music and movie industries are dying, it's not all because of piracy like the RIAA would like you to believe.

Part of the reason people pirate is in protest to DRM. Sell high-quality CDs/DVDs DRM free and some pirates might actually buy it.




RE: REASONS NOT TO INVEST IN BLU-RAY.
By Techiedude37 on 5/5/2008 9:58:45 AM , Rating: 2
The average movie-watcher doesn't give to poops about DRM and downloadable movies. It's all about price price price. Since the death of HD-DVD, Sony has been cranking the prices of Blu-Ray movies UP instead of down. They're either content with low market saturation or they're incredibly stupid.


By JonnyDough on 5/5/2008 10:46:03 PM , Rating: 2
I never said that it was the only reason, or that it was everyone's reason. But thanks for that. With Sony's PS3 sales going up, they're moving the cost of movies up as well because they think they can. When will companies learn that it's not long-term sustainable or as profitable to price gouge? Good prices are sales. Sony needs to pull their head out of their...

Every disc sold is free advertising media. SONY appears on every disc. Why don't they get that the more they sell, the more popular they become? There IS still brand loyalty. Heck, think about clothing lines. Does it cost $1000 to make a Prada handbag? I think not.


agree
By AlmostExAMD on 5/2/2008 4:21:06 AM , Rating: 2
I agree with a few comments from HD owners, To say DVD is as good a picture as blu-ray is rediculous,It's like chalk and cheese with the right setup!
And that is just it the right set up, Its not entirely blu-rays fault expensive or not, Most of the general public just haven't made the switch yet to HDTV and a theatre surround sound, Thats the expensive part investing in a 1080p tv and sound setup. Why buy a blu ray player and movies when u aint got the tv to enjoy it.
With prices for big 1080p tv's dropping fast and hitting the mass market it won't take long after that for the adoption of a HD player to add to there setup.
I just recently went thirds with my oldies on a 52" Sony Bravia XBR(1080p) and 7.1 DTS Setup from a previous 55" Samsung rear projection(800x600 resolution), Blu ray is absolutely spectacular regardless of the extra crap they throw onto discs that i never bother looking at.
As for u porn freaks out there(me included) let me just say its about as close as u can get insane quality, I actually like seeing the imperfections on the girls just like real life, Better than fuzzy/blurred out crap on dvd,Blu ray brings them back to reality real fast! :)
It's early days yet, I am fairly tech minded and buy the latest gear soon after release, So if others like me r only just making a switch then it will be a while before the general public jump onboard to blu-ray.




RE: agree
By Hiawa23 on 5/2/2008 9:52:33 AM , Rating: 2
I bought the PS3 for gaming, bought an HDTV for my Xbox 360 PS3 & computer, & I don't even have my cable box connected to the TV, as it runs through my standard TVs in all my rooms of my home.

I really don't need HD for TV shows & movies. I have an HD DVD player & yes the movies look great, but to be honest with you I am fine wih standard DVDs, & the only High def movie I bought was Transformers, & got 5 free BR's with the PS3 & 7 free HD DVDs with the HD DVD player.

With my 10 year old in private school, gas through the roof, mortgage, paying off student loans, car notes, I have had to take on a second job, & I have a degree in Business management & run a successful company, so if many are like me, there is no room for wasting on stuff like Blu Ray, not important at all when you are trying to make the important ends meet.

Another thing to think about, many keep comparing VHS to DVD when DVD exploded & assumed the same would happen with BR, I don't see it cause DVD was so supperior to DVD in every aspect by a huge margin which to me is not the case for the everyday person when comparing DVD to BR, yes BR is about 5 or 6 times larger & allows for HD, but most homes don't even have HDTVs or feel as though they need it.

DVD is good enough for my eyes & pockets, & like I said the only reason I even bought the HDTV was to play my next gen consoles in HD.


RE: agree
By Reclaimer77 on 5/2/2008 3:32:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
As for u porn freaks out there(me included) let me just say its about as close as u can get insane quality, I actually like seeing the imperfections on the girls just like real life,


I doubt anyone who would pay $30 for a porno DVD has seen a real woman naked in quite a while.


I agree
By ice456789 on 5/1/2008 4:07:13 PM , Rating: 3
Speaking personally, I won't drop hundreds of dollars into the Blueray market unless it is just a nice feature of another piece of electronics (like a PS3). Why should I spend $300 on a BR player when all my movies are regular DVD's. Then I have to go out and re-buy any movies I already own just to get a better picture. And of course you can get a DVD for $10-$20, but a BR disk costs about $10 more.

I am normally an early adopter but in this case I'll wait until the BR players fall down to $100. It WILL happen, it will just take time.




RE: I agree
By JLL55 on 5/1/2008 8:01:08 PM , Rating: 2
But I don't think you have to rebuy your dvd's to get them to play on the Blu-Ray Players, you just don't get all the fancy schmancy new things...


PS3 is it
By TheriusDrake on 5/1/2008 8:29:17 PM , Rating: 5
If it wasnt for the PS3 there wouldnt be any blu-ray players out there. HD-DVD had just gotten to the price that would have been perfect for the consumer's to start buying in mass when the movie studios killed it.

Now the consumer is left with the option of buying a Blu Ray player for 399.99 and up, or once again, a PS3 for the same price. Wow, what a shocker people arent lineing up in droves for this deal.




Further proof
By mholler on 5/1/2008 4:16:58 PM , Rating: 2
That this is an extremely price-sensitive market. Toshiba and the HD DVD camp understood this and were doing there best to drive down the cost to produce high-definition video hardware. Unfortunately the Sony marketing machine, and their shrewd decision to make the PS3 a Blu-Ray player right out of the box, was able to crush the competition before they were forced to lower their prices to remain competitive.

I think Sony has greatly over-estimated the appeal of HD media to the average consumer. I have HD programming through DirecTV and I rarely watch anything that comes on a non-HD channel, however I still haven't invested in Blu-Ray due to the steep cost of entry for both hardware and movies.

Perhaps this data will give Sony a swift kick in the rear and force them to lower their licensing fees in order to encourage more 3rd party manufacturers to enter the market. I wouldn't hold my breath though.




RE: Further proof
By Gyres01 on 5/1/2008 4:28:50 PM , Rating: 2
True that....I can get the same Movies on HD thru DirecTV....why should I buy an expensive player?? I mean how loud or how clear does it need to be ??? No wonder everyone is broke.........


Remember when?
By Verran on 5/1/2008 4:31:24 PM , Rating: 4
Remember when the key studios dropped HD-DVD and told us that the problem was that we needed them to make the decision for us? Apparently that wasn't really the reason that we weren't buying. So what will they come up with now? What other decision do they want to tell us we made for them?

Buying BR is like shooting at a moving target. Why buy when they keep changing standards? Whenever they actually figure out what BR is (standards), maybe I'll buy that.

It's not moving because the layperson doesn't care. They just DON'T. DVD is very good quality and most of the mainstream market doesn't see the value for the investment.




A good demo would help!
By ultimatebob on 5/1/2008 10:03:53 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly, I think that consumers might actually want to buy a BluRay player if they got a decent demonstration on one playing on a high end system compared to a DVD. I haven't seen any decent demos outside higher end video shop like a Tweeter, though.

BluRay Demo stations like the ones they have at Target are NOT helping their cause. Hell... They're showing BluRay disks on a cheap 32" 720p LCD with crummy built-in stereo speakers! I don't think that a setup like that could do most DVD's justice, let alone a BluRay movie. The demo that I saw at Best Buy wasn't much better... I could hardly tell the difference between the two on the mediocre 42" Phillips LCD TV's they were using.

How are consumers supposed to be impressed with a lousy demo like that?




RE: A good demo would help!
By mcnabney on 5/1/2008 10:38:36 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, that makes sense.

To truly enjoy BluRay you need to have a 1080p display that is also very large so that the resolution can be seen. The audio needs to be decoded and played through a very good receiver and played on a 7.1 speaker setup with a powerful subwoofer. So, the customer should not only anticipate $400 for the player and nearly double the media price, but also an extra $4000 in equipment to allow the BD to shine.

Face it. BluRay can turn make an excellent theater experience in the home. But that costs a bloody fortune. DVD can deliver a good enough presentation. And it appears that for once the American public has figured it out.


Hardly surprising
By DOCDAT1 on 5/2/2008 3:04:24 AM , Rating: 2
With many of the biggest movie titles still unavailable on BD.

For example, where is the LOTR and Matrix trilogy on BD?!?

And what about all the HD-DVD releases that they still haven't gotten out on blu-ray yet, despite not even having to remaster them?!




RE: Hardly surprising
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 5/2/2008 8:25:10 AM , Rating: 2
Star Wars on BD would be an instant win.


The Problem is Sony
By Reclaimer77 on 5/2/2008 11:07:10 AM , Rating: 4
Think about it. When has Sony ever launched a successful proprietary technology ? Beta Max, failed. Super audio disk/minidisk, failed. The PSP was the most overhyped bust in recent history. Now Blu-Ray, we'll have to see how that works out.

Toshiba had a better product in HD-DVD that would of seen far better market saturation, and you guys know it. The format was finalized already, unlike Blu-Ray which is constantly in flux because Sony is so freaked out over potential pirating. The hardware and disks had a GREAT price point for the consumer. You weren't being forced into buying a game system to enjoy the format either.

Toshiba hit a home run. They were foiled because the consumer was never given a chance. Sony simply threw more money at major motion picture studios and that was that. It doesn't mean its a better product.

I say product, not technology. Technically Blu-Ray is a better technology. Consumers don't care about technology, they care about PRODUCTS. They are buying products, not technology.

I was fully prepared to invest in HD DVD until the fight went south for them. Now I'm just going to wait until Blu-Ray fails and a better format comes along thats not driven by a company who rather secretly install rootkits on everyones computers and takes every opportunity to screw the consumer. Plus they have NEVER proven EVER that they could successfully launch a format.

Sony, you make great technology. Your problem is your ANTI-CONSUMER.




Its the price
By Ish718 on 5/6/2008 4:44:44 PM , Rating: 2
Its the price and thats it, theres nothing else really stopping bluray from succeeding except the price and cost.
bluray players on average cost 4 times as much as DVD players or even more. But then again you need a HDTV to reap the benefit of a bluray player. DVD doesn't have all those downsides. Then again, how many people actually own HDTVs?!




RE: Its the price
By Ish718 on 5/6/2008 4:56:42 PM , Rating: 2
Only good deal for a bluray player is a PS3.
And the bluray drives you can buy for PC are a good deal because their like >/=$130


Blue Ray won the war, only to die slowly
By Hakuryu on 5/1/2008 5:28:16 PM , Rating: 2
The people that really want the highest definition video and sound, understand all the differences (1080p vs i, HDMI vs DVI, etc), and are willing to pay large amounts of money to setup a complete system are a small minority. Most people are content with DVD. Content to purchase a movie like Fast Times at Ridgemont High for $4.99, rather than $29.99 for a Blue Ray version.

The average consumer sees a few things right off the bat :
1. Blue Ray players are expensive
2. Blue Ray movies cost anywhere from 1.5 to 6x the cost of a regular dvd
3. Many movies are not even available on Blue Ray

Add to that the confusion over formats, connections, what type of TV and sound system is needed, and consumers will opt for the cheaper and easily setup/understood DVD.

Blue Ray will sell, but in the end, like I've said before, the next format for movies is the one that will be adopted widely (assuming the mistakes of current formats are removed).




By cmdrdredd on 5/1/2008 7:09:47 PM , Rating: 1
It won't die. The thing is, HDTV adoption is slow because companies can't push HD on people who can't see the difference. People who are just stubborn and ignorant like elderly, people with little spending money etc.

The people who CAN afford HDTV probably can and do buy Blu-Ray like myself. I did HD DVD and Blu-Ray. I buy about 2 movies a month as well.

The Difference between SD DVD and Blu-Ray is astounding, but there are people who refuse to believe it or have not had the opportunity to properly experience it.

Also, I just bought No Country for Old men on Blu-Ray for $25 at wallyworld. The DVD was selling only $5 less.

FWIW: DailyTech has had a history of putting Blu-Ray in a bad light with their articles.


The minority opinion....
By Sartori42 on 5/2/2008 4:09:23 AM , Rating: 3
I'm reading a lot of negative opinion here against BR. Having just purchased a Sony BDP-S300 player, I thought I would share my logic (or illogic) behind my motives for this purchase. I considered a lot of things before my purchase, so maybe that thinking is of value here....

On the subject of stand-alone player versus PS3. The BDP-S300 is the same price as the PS3, so why did I go with a stand alone player, especially when the PS3 is already a profile 2.0 player and it is "only" a profile 1.0 player? I discounted that issue because I know my entertainment habits and I wonder if they're so different from most people's. From what I understand, the higher profiles (1.1 and 2.0) don't improve the picture quality at all, just add "features". When I and my family watch a movie at home, we watch the movie and turn it off. Who messes around with the extra features more than once? So, I don't care about those extra features and I do not want to hook up my entertainment system to the internet (yet). Also, the PS3 remote is a blue-tooth model which wouldn't integrate with my infrared universal remote. I was tired of many remotes in our living room, so I wasn't about to start adding more. Finally, as of this writing, I couldn't find one compelling game I or my family wanted to play on the PS3. Not one. So, the PS3 option isn't for everyone.

Second point... I think the movie studios fleece us every time they come out with a new version of the same movie. They release a basic version of a movie on DVD and you buy it. Then, they release the "director's cut" version with added video footage, so you buy that (since you're a big fan of the movie). Then, they come out with the deluxe 2-disc version with added bonus features that sound really cool (altho you only watch them once), so you buy another version. Now, there's Blu-ray? All along the way, the studios are taking your money and you aren't getting much more in the way of entertainment. Personally, I don't want to buy any more SD DVDs because at some point, I'm going to want the HD version of my favorites. There are some movies (character studies, etc) that are just fine at SD, but some movies I want at the best presentation I can get. I think HD is going to be around a while. Look at how slow we are to upgrade to HD now. Does anyone really think we're going to adopt Extreme Definition (or whatever - 2160p) video within the next 10 years? I think this spec with be with us for quite a while...

While I currently only have 6 Blu-ray titles at home, I know I'll be replacing selected titles for the higher quality picture. However, I mostly bought the BDP-S300 so any movies I buy from now on will be in the format that will be with us for the foreseeable future. The player is great (so far), and I'm happy I made the move to BR HD.

Cheers.




By Chernobyl68 on 5/1/2008 4:45:49 PM , Rating: 2
I think its the TV. DVD's look fine on regualar TVs, and most people think they look batter than the old VHS tapes. However, to really benefit from Blu-Ray, you need a hi-definition TV set, which I'm willing to bet that most of the country still does not have. I think most people will probably hold off until they get a HDTV.




Ron Jeremy
By cmontyburns on 5/1/2008 9:14:18 PM , Rating: 2
Can Someone please enlighten us when you factor-in the impact of the porn movie industry? I mean crisp details, stunning clarity, smooth action and zooming, lifelike digital sound.. and so on with blue rays?
I thought that the porn industry always played a key role in digital media, just like it does in most other things, and helping to drive innovation as well. ( I'm not trying to glorify it, so don't bother pointing it out.)




Other issues than cost
By bernardl on 5/2/2008 12:42:05 AM , Rating: 2
Even without discussing the price issue, there are other causes slowing down HD adoption.

1. Size. Most credible source agree that a 40 inch TV is needed to be able to see the benefits of full HD.

Many people simply do not have the space in their interior for such monsters, or are not willing to let TVs eat up an even larger fraction of their lives.

2. Quality. The truth is that CRT do a much better job than most LCDs at displaying analog TV content. I am clearly not tempted to adopt an LCD screen today to enjoy 30% better movie quality 5% of the time and see lower TV quality 95% of the time as long as digital is not widely available,

3. Rate of change. New TV sets are released every 3 months by Japanese brands. Model names are confusing and appear to overlap, the price structure is messed up by the heavy competition and it is really tempting to wait for more stability.

4. Poor quality of the content. With the quality of movies decreasing at super high speed, the perception of the value of the time spent watching a movie is decreasing also, and so is the willingness of people to invest in related infrastructures,

5. Portal battle. The real battle taking place has never been HD DVD vs Blue Ray, the real battle is at the level of the media storage/display device. Computers are fighting against TVs/players for the ownership of the multi-media space in families, and this prevents many people from investing one way or another.

Cheers,
Bernard




Why should I upgrade?
By iFX on 5/2/2008 2:19:00 AM , Rating: 2
When solid players are $75 and movies are $10-15 then I will upgrade. Right now standard DVD is just fine for me.




By Dribble on 5/2/2008 6:01:35 AM , Rating: 2
Why buy one:
a) they cost a fortune.
b) they don't support the full blue ray standard.
c) they are very slow - the *cheaper* ones can take 1 1/2 minutes to boot up!!!

The only player worth owning is the PS3, but if want something that will fit into your hifi rack or costs less then you are out of luck.

When (a), (b), and (c) are solved I'm sure sales will take off. They'd better hurry up and do it though. HD rentals via download are starting to taking off. Once that starts to appear as an extra to HD TV set top boxes then it may well be that a large proportion of the market think that + a DVD player is enough until blue ray players are so cheap they can replace the cheap DVD player people already have.




Where are the features?
By abhinambiar on 5/2/2008 9:16:16 AM , Rating: 2
I know that high definition content is all the rage these days, but I think we need to realize that the general populace will look to see what a Blu-ray player can do that their existing equipment cannot. I believe that people switched from VHS to DVD, not for the improved quality of the picture, but because of features like intro screens, chapter skip, size and ease of using the disc. The improved video quality was just a happy accident. I think that the absolute bottom line is that people will adopt blu-ray if (1) HDTV become the de facto standard for televisions and (2) people see additional benefits, other than just improved audio/video. For instance - Additional web content, maybe 3D video or other as yet undeveloped improvements.

The current Blu-ray offerings are not enough to overcome the need to upgrade all of the basic equipment to get maximal benefit.

Just my 2 cents.
Abhi




DVD Quality
By straycat74 on 5/2/2008 9:50:32 AM , Rating: 2
Think of how blown away people will be with DVD quality on their new LCD or plasma screens when they actually spend the money on component/hdmi cables instead of the composite/coax or s-video!




Possible Explanations
By carage on 5/2/2008 9:58:25 AM , Rating: 2
The slow adoption in US might be explained by the recent economic mess.

The slow adoption in Asia can probably be explained by the LACK of piracy.

It seems the BD alliance have intentionally kept a short leash on BD production licenses and equipment, once these things fall into the hands of certain (presumptively) Chinese disc factories, then we can probably expect BD hardware sales in Asia rise at insane rates, but the movie studioes aren't going to let that happen any time soon just yet.

At least most of my friends in Asia are holding out on the PS3 for the simple reason of the LACK of piracy. Once pirated BD media appears on the market, then Sony would be on an even footing with M$ and Nintendo in the Asian VG console market.

I know nothing about Europe and Africa, so I'll leave them out of this. Any body know a few things about these continents?




i wanted a hd media player but
By nerdboy on 5/2/2008 11:37:51 AM , Rating: 2
I had to choose between a PS3 and Gas for my car




BD prices
By wallijonn on 5/2/2008 1:54:16 PM , Rating: 2
When walking down the aisles the people see $30 for a movie they'll most probably just keep right on walking... They'll think, "At $30 a pop, why bother?"




bluRay
By IGBT on 5/3/2008 10:44:56 PM , Rating: 2
..sales are slow due to the fact that most casual viwers don't see value in costly machines and disks. And a few rungs down the ladder, joe sixpak viewer sees no value in upgrading. Untill price point is similar to existing standard dvd machines/disks, expect sluggish sales.




My thoughts on this...
By callmeroy on 5/5/2008 3:11:10 PM , Rating: 2
I haven't read all the comments here (there were 184 of them as I posted this), but I'm sure I'm repeating others in saying this as it seems very common sense...

1) Maybe the folks worried about blu-ray hardware sales should pick up a newspaper sometime and read the financial section. The economy is in the tank at the moment, gas prices are through the friggin roof with no sign of slowing (100% its going to hit $4 a gallon this summer in even the states that usually are comparatively "cheap" with other states). The last thing on most people's minds right now with the domino effect of food prices and most other goods going up is "oh wait we need to drop a few hundred on a blu ray player".

Nah -- call me silly but I like to eat and get to work more than watch movies.

2) Unless you are a die hard , DVD is more than adequate, blu-ray is hardly a MUST HAVE to many folks who have a huge DVD collection already. I know on and off through the past couple months when I talk to friends or family about this topic overwhelmingly people agree -- they feel they can easily be satisified with their DVD player for quite a while, there is no urgency in them to upgrade to blu-ray. Granted none of this people are what you consider tech geeks either, in fact half of them are hardly ever home.

But anyway I think its that -- economy and blu-ray players is a "nice thing to have" but that's it ...its nothing major to a lot of people.




There is nothing worth buying
By mydogfarted on 5/5/2008 3:52:05 PM , Rating: 2
There are very few new releases that have come out on Blu-Ray. Barnes & Noble has a Buy 2, Get 1 free Blu-Ray sale on right now and I can't find a 3rd disk worth buying for me. I already own a lot of DVDs, most of the Blu-Ray titles are back catalog stuff that I already own and can't see the point of an HD version of the movie (Die Hard 4 pack, are you sh*tting me?).

One thing I did see that was interesting was the show Weeds - an entire season on one disk. This is where BR is going to shine for a lot of people. I love owning tv series, but hate the 4+ disk case sets. Slim it down to 1-2 disks. Awesome.




Aspect Ratio Driving Me Crazy
By jeromekwok on 5/1/2008 9:31:32 PM , Rating: 1
I bought a set and 3 BD movies after HD surrenders. I think the price of BD disks are expensive to prefer. Also you won't notice too much difference if you don't sit close to your TV or your TV is not "big" enough.

More important is the "2.4:1" weird aspect ratio. I am more happy with DVD in 16:9 ratio than watching BD with two "black bars".




which side are we looking at
By tastyratz on 5/1/08, Rating: 0
"We can't expect users to use common sense. That would eliminate the need for all sorts of legislation, committees, oversight and lawyers." -- Christopher Jennings











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