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Bill Gates chats with Dean Takahashi on all things Xbox 360

Engadget reported two weeks ago that a new revision of the Xbox 360, Zephyr, was due to be launched this year. Engadget posted a rather grainy image of an Xbox 360 which sported an HDMI port for native 1080p support. Xbox-Scene followed up with some clearer shots of the HDMI port along with a revised motherboard featuring the new HANA scaler chip.

Along with the new HDMI port, Engadget also reported that a new 120GB hard drive would be included in addition to already anticipated cooler-running 65 nanometer IBM Xenon PowerPC processor.

Not surprisingly, the inclusion of an HDMI port sparked the most debate on the internet. Discussion boards across the web turned into flame zones as techies argued back and forth over whether Microsoft was justified in releasing an HDMI-equipped Xbox 360.

When Microsoft was asked directly, Microsoft's Chris Satchell confirmed the existence of prototype Xbox 360s with an HDMI ports, but declined to expound on the possibility of seeing it in the future. Satchell also deflected questioning on the larger 120GB hard drive.

Dean Takahashi, always a close confidant to Microsoft executives, had a chance to press Bill Gates on future upgrades to the Xbox 360 including his thoughts on a larger hard drive and IPTV.

While Satchell deflected questioning on the possibility of a larger hard drive for IPTV, Gates simply said that it isn't needed. "In an IPTV environment, there is no reason to put anything down on a hard disk because you created a broadband infrastructure that has enough capacity to stream individual video streams to everybody on the network," said Gates. "In terms of videos and music, there is no reason to put it on the local hard disk."

Bill Gates also made mention that content providers are likely to be elated with the idea that no IPTV content would be stored on the Xbox 360's hard drive. “It means you can insert ads that are up to date. You can control how much ad skipping you allow. And you’re less vulnerable to getting at the bits. Xbox is a very protected environment. No one is going to go and get bits on an Xbox.” He went on to say “By being more secure than anything else out there, it’s pretty good. It’s really just the simplicity. You have to get permissions to do server-based DVR. You have to get the copyright owner’s permission.”

Also, contrary to what Paul Thurrott said in the January 12 edition of the Windows Weekly, no new revision of the Xbox 360 will be needed for users to take advantage of IPTV. "No, we don’t need to change it at all to do an IPTV thing."

Takahashi questioned Gates on the subject of the Xbox 360 competing head to head with Windows Media Center PCs. "Xbox has a slightly better hardware protection model. We may have some content we don’t get for everywhere. It’s very valid to point out that some of the good things we are doing in Media Center we should share with Xbox and some of the good things we are doing on Xbox we should share with the Media Center," Gates responded.

He added "If people are comparing Microsoft to Microsoft, we have no concern. It’s OK. Should we pick one form factor and worry about that? Should we be concerned if someone puts their media on my Zune or media on my Blackjack? There is enough uncertainty about who wants PC coming down in the living room and Xbox coming up that I don’t mind them meeting and even overlapping as long as the point system, the user interface, the development tools - as long as we get this incredible alignment.”

Gates also took the time to take a few jabs at Sony's PlayStation 3. Gates stated that Sony wouldn't have anything better-looking than the upcoming Halo 3 for the Xbox 360. "They were going to have the Cell be the video processor. But they didn’t know what they were doing. They said the Cell is the video processor. But they turned to Nvidia at the last minute, but Nvidia can’t do embedded DRAM. Go look at the bandwidth problems. Go ask the guys running ... now."

Gates seems very optimistic about the future of the Xbox 360 in the interview and is looking forward to working with content providers like AT&T for IPTV. Though Microsoft is downplaying the importance of hard drives larger than the 20GB currently in use (actually, only about 13GB are useable), the company is more likely than not to cave in to the demands of gamers and the market to deliver a considerable boost in storage.

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No new HDD>
By Xenoterranos on 1/20/2007 12:42:33 PM , Rating: 2
Bill Gates: "20 gigs should be enough for anybody!"

RE: No new HDD>
By daftrok on 1/20/2007 1:08:29 PM , Rating: 1
Haha, it sounded like he was going to say that at some point. But honestly, this "new" version should have been the first one. Also, if you frigging TAKE OUT a 203W AC adapter from the console and it STILL overheats, you fucked up somewhere in the architecture. It would have been nice to have 1080p and HDMI, they clearly didn't see how big it became BEFORE the launch of playstation 3. Thankfully they have 1080p but with some still critical issues. Microsoft thought behind and shot themselves in the foot a few times. Granted Sony shot themselves as well, so don't be bashing me just because I'm criticizing Microsoft. Also, the incapability to upgrade your HDD (if the screws were easier to reach, it is actually easier to remove the 360 HDD than the PS3) is pretty sad on their part. And the fact that you need a HDD to play original Xbox games, to go online, to play with people is ridiculous. It can be easily fixed if they say "hey boys and girls, here's an instruction manual on how to remove your HDD" and heck, add on to that "won't void warranty if you fuck up!". Playstation 3 of course has its issues (no upscaling games and DVDs, backwards compatibility audio/video quality issues, incapability to play games or do anything whilst downloading online content) but you have to realize that ALL of these issues can be solved with a firmware upgrade and they WILL be solved. But the issues of Microsoft, they have to come out with practically a new console just to solve its serious hardware issues.

RE: No new HDD>
By GreenEnvt on 1/20/2007 2:22:57 PM , Rating: 2
The PS3 scaler issue will most likely not be fixable via firmware. The PS3 lacks the scaler chip, so "revision A" PS3's may be stuck with it for life.

I'd certainly like to see an upgraded 360. The 360 has a lot more to offer me then the PS3, and would be a nice compliment to my Wii and Media center.

RE: No new HDD>
By Lakku on 1/20/2007 2:53:13 PM , Rating: 2
You need the HDD to play online for game updates, so far as I can tell. But aside from that, what serious hardware issues are you talking about with the 360? I can't think of any major issue, and the only minor one is the external power brick. But let me tell you a secret, the 360 doesn't overheat if you don't confine it. Also, the PS3 is MUCH hotter to the touch while in use then the 360. Yes, I have both and the air coming out of the PS3 is hot to the touch, while the 360 is warm to hot, but not that much. Either way, neither of them crashes on me. As for the scaler issue on the PS3, you don't know if it will be fixed. They used to offer 720p playback for BD but it was disabled in one of the later updates. Rumors are that 720p playback was looking to good, as in the scaler, or lack of a quality one, was a hinderence. We'll have to wait and see, but the inability for my PS3 not to output at 720p for BD (it works for games) is more of a major issue then anything on my 360.

RE: No new HDD>
By Lakku on 1/20/2007 2:54:49 PM , Rating: 2
720p wasn't looking to good I mean

RE: No new HDD>
By daftrok on 1/20/2007 3:07:29 PM , Rating: 2
Just because YOU didn't have an overheating 360 doesn't mean they are out there. And the ps3 is hot to the touch, but its better that way because that means there was heat internally as well. And the scalar issue WILL be solved, they just need more ps3's in people's hands before they do it They are worried about sales right now. And seriously, 1080i looks fine (actually, its preferred for most movies, unless watching extremely fast paced). These are MINOR issues that will be solved with firmware. (BTW, my 360 is/was not confined in anyway, shape or form and it still crashed on me; my point was the overheating crash rate was much higher than it should have been, which is why they are changing the processor from 90nm to 65nm, possibly adding HDMI and a bigger HDD)

RE: No new HDD>
By daftrok on 1/20/2007 3:08:45 PM , Rating: 2
Heat internally for the 360, I mean. Plus, the 360 was hot to the touch too, but I had a shitty one in the first place, so a moot point.

RE: No new HDD>
By Canizorro on 1/20/2007 5:04:12 PM , Rating: 2
I believe the OP meant that the problem with the scalar issue might not be able to be resolved for existing customers. Which is true. Sony had said early on that a firmware update would solve the issue, but that statement has since been retracted and is unknown if it can be resolved for existing PS3 owners. As for it being a minor issue, it's a major issue for HDTV early adopters whose sets can only display HD in 1080i. The overheating issue is a moot point as well. Microsoft has extended warranties, offered free repair, and refunds to owners who already had repair work done.

RE: No new HDD>
By Canizorro on 1/20/2007 5:08:10 PM , Rating: 2
Oops, sorry I meant Lakku instead the OP.

RE: No new HDD>
By daftrok on 1/20/2007 5:28:41 PM , Rating: 2
Oh THAT, yes thats major for those poor souls with just 1080i/480p option. Why wouldn't be solved with a firmware update? If the 360 can have the option to output 1080p (and upscale 720p games to that resolution) with just a firmware update, why couldn't Sony? Also, is there any count on how many HDTVs have just 1080i/480p?

RE: No new HDD>
By daftrok on 1/20/2007 5:29:45 PM , Rating: 2
Nvmd, Scalar chip, got it.

RE: No new HDD>
By daftrok on 1/20/2007 5:38:36 PM , Rating: 2
But wait...scalar chip? Couldn't the Cell microprocessor and Nvidia's RSX handle scaling data? I don't see how Blu-Ray movies being shown at 1080i can't be shown at 720p. The PS3 has the power to upscale, why do you need a scalar chip? I'm confused. Someone please explain.

RE: No new HDD>
By S3anister on 1/20/2007 8:29:34 PM , Rating: 3
nobody is going to explain because they can't. and you're right, they should be able to do SOME kind of software update to create upscaling, i mean, just look at the soft modded (original) xboxes, and their media center program, it could scale to 720p/480p/480i just fine, it didn't even matter.

I'm not a sony hater at all, i have a lot of their stuff and it works great. but i think they did a bad job on the PS3.

RE: No new HDD>
By ViperROhb34 on 1/20/2007 8:39:47 PM , Rating: 2
I agree overall.. Thing is some people forget these consoles were designed virtually at the same time.. Just that PS3 got delayed a year. PS3 really had the same time frame for game development when you look at how long developers had their PS3's.. and yet three games already show what Gates described lack of memory bandwidth for the PS3 video GPU..

RE: No new HDD>
By daftrok on 1/20/2007 9:35:20 PM , Rating: 1
A bad job? My point all along was that despite these issues, they can be fixed (for the most part) using firmware upgrades, and making it a good job (except the price).

RE: No new HDD>
By giantpandaman2 on 1/21/2007 1:28:06 AM , Rating: 2
RSX and Cell can scale things fine...if you're only watching a movie. For a game, though, they're already busy doing the game. So no firmware will fix the lack of scaler for gamers who want to play their 720p game on at 1080i on a 1080i/480p set.

RE: No new HDD>
By Alexvrb on 1/21/2007 9:18:13 AM , Rating: 2
Count? Who knows, but its a lot. Many entry-level HDTVs still do not support 720p. You have to dig into specs and spend more money to get 720p. Most people STILL don't have an HDTV. As people move to HDTVs, they generally buy more of the affordable ones (I know I did) and are "stuck" with 1080i. For HD TV content, movies and 360 games, it looks awesome, because they can be scaled properly and retain excellent quality. Not so for PS3 games with the current revision.

Find a cheap, decent sized 720p-capable HDTV. If advertized properly, that's a model that will sell! As for 1080p... it's way too soon to see mass adoption, no matter how many TV ads Sony runs on their "true HD" sets. Most people don't have the cash money to burn. That's why the Wii is a running success, while the PS3 is shelf-warmer. Affordable and fun. "True HD" not required.

RE: No new HDD>
By Funksultan on 1/22/2007 9:28:08 AM , Rating: 1
Alexvrb, you have a point, but it's incredibly short sighted.

Think about how many 1080p sets were sold last year, how many will be sold this year, how many will be sold NEXT year... that is what good companies do. They see trends BEFORE they happen, not while they are happening. The consoles we are seeing now are going to have a productive life of more than 5 years, and a very functional life of probably close to 10 (hell, if the media functionality is good, it could be even longer!).

Think long term. That's what everyone is doing. The people who can't see the big picture are the ones saying "ZOMG, ZOMG, there aren't any good 1080p gamez! 1080p iz a waste!". The accurate way to think of it is 2 years from now, we could be seeing an environment where any game that ISN'T 1080p native will get dinged. This situation happens all the time.

Microsoft, Sony... these are companies that aren't going to declare bankruptsy any time soon. They aren't in this to win the battle, they are in it to win the war.

"Think about the future."
- Jack Napier

RE: No new HDD>
By rykerabel on 1/22/2007 3:38:17 PM , Rating: 2
$1200 seems pretty good for a 42" 1080p LCD with 1080p HDMI inputs:

RE: No new HDD>
By Hypernova on 1/20/2007 3:23:49 PM , Rating: 2
Gate has a good point in that IPTV should not be recordable, this make content provider have greater control over their data and breath easier know if they provide premium content it's not easily copied. The whole point of streaming is so that you can't keep the data, and that was a big reason why Youtube was being scrutinised since you can download youtube videos.

If the HDD stays small though there will be an issue with providers that choose to go with the "Download to keep" business model.

RE: No new HDD>
By xphile on 1/21/2007 6:10:12 AM , Rating: 2
... said Gates. "In terms of videos and music, there is no reason to put it on the local hard disk."

This will be why you, me, and everyone else in the world has zero music or movie files on any of their hard disks then will it? I mean ok I can understand the piracy aspect regarding IPTV but this is just plain nonsense. What he's really saying is "YOu will put up with 20gb until we get enough time passed to put out a version with an 80 - 120GB drive and not have a huge consumer backlash that current versions cant be upgraded.

Then the story will magically change to: "This new version allows allows a vast number of new innovative features, including HDMI output in full 1080P and the ability to save prepaid multimedia downloads so you can now watch them when you want to, because we know not everyone sits down and watches a tv set like it was a movie then gets up and leaves when it's over"

This is what the industry calls an ACM or Ass Covering Manouevre. 20GB is even less all you need in HD space today than the infamous 640k of memory was back in the 90's (whether Bill did say that or not). To say this today, even refering to IPTV, when you have a game system attached as well as LIVE downloads is even worse than that. Try and even FIND a 20gb HDD in a retail store. You cant - havent been able to for a long time. Last time you could they cost MORE than a 40GB drive because of supply and demand. Sure they are made to spec in volume for MS but a 60GB model would probably have a real cost to them today of about $5 more.

He'd have sounded more realistic and honest saying "Look if we give you 13GB formated accessable HDD space, there isnt anyway you're ever going to copy even one 15GB layer of an HD-DVD disc to our system."

Solution to sony's problems
By rupaniii on 1/21/2007 12:17:14 AM , Rating: 2
Sony seems to be tuning the developers suite and asking that all developers have the games seek the user settings for the Television's native output mode and to target that. So, if you set your PS3 to 1080p resolution, the game will render a frame buffer of 1920x1080. Or, if the developer needs to, it can run a scalar function on the passive frame buffer and output that to the target buffers. This is easy in hardware, and libraries will no doubt get standard for that quickly.
Sony needs to launch a new user interface. Indeed, the current one is a joke. Being 'homogeneous' with a failed portable system that closely resembles a somewhat competent attempt at a Sony Nomad is kind of a useless proposition.
As for movie scaling issue, this is such a total no brainer I don't even wonder if it's a concern, it is, until they do a firmware fix. However, if you think i'm a fanboy, no. And yes, nothing on sony's list prepares them for Halo3. Nice job M$.

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By ViperROhb34 on 1/21/2007 7:02:59 PM , Rating: 2
In the February edition of Game Informer One of the Head Developers for VALVE ( Aka Half Life, who the hell doesnt know this ? ) is the third developer for a major company to say PS3 isn't easy to develop for. In fact if you read it.. he literally says he feels PS3 is a disaster on many levels and they should just cancel it and re-release it whent hey have it right !! LOL

Carmack got some crap from fanboys for his mild comments.. and now this guy says in a MUCH harsher way the same thing.

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By daftrok on 1/21/2007 7:13:40 PM , Rating: 1
Japanese architecture tends to scare the U.S. developers. This is actually one of the reasons why EA games look the same for 360 and PS3 when in fact the PS3 has much more processing power than the 360 (that and the multi-platform contracts make it so that the 360 tends to outshine in a couple of categories. Thank you, Lobbyists!). One great example of this is too look at the trees in PGA '07 for the look at the trees in Gran Turismo 4...notice anything? Look at Metal Gear Solid 2 on the ps2 and xbox, you can see that the ps2 outshines it AND THE PS2 HAS LESS PROCESSING POWER THAN THE XBOX. So VALVE can say all they want about how "hard" it is to develop for ps2. Gran Turismo, Devil May Cry, Tekken, Metal Gear Solid, God of War, Ratchet, Killzone, and now Resistance have shown what the Playstation can (and WILL) do for next-gen gaming.

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By daftrok on 1/21/2007 7:14:34 PM , Rating: 2
develop for ps3*

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By ViperROhb34 on 1/21/2007 7:44:58 PM , Rating: 2
Its so funny to read the fanboys of PS3 say "how when better games come out everyone will see" ..And How Games "WILL" be great.. So far three major developers have publicly said this thing isn't fun to make games for. On top of that Sony has avoided comparing the Nvidia video card inside of the PS3 to the 360 because it doesnt have good memory bandwidth. G4 showed two games - one of them being Tony Hawk Pro Skater - on the PS3 and it choked in intense areas compared to the 360.. Gamestop ( maybe IGN ) showed Call of Duty 3 choking in intense areas.. People dont undertand if the Cell processor really is that good it won't matter if the video card can't handle whats being sent from the Cell ! ANother big thing.. How good the PS3 is or isn't .. Isn't really the question. Its the 600 dollar price of entry. FOr 600 dollars it could be argued that it is indeed a good value.. but Most people just don't want to drop 600 dollars.. and HD-DVD is selling much better at stores.. I have a friend who works at Best Buy.. Another at Target.. bit have said HD-DVD movies come off the shelf 3 times faster! This doesnt help Blu ray or PS3 sales at all !
People need to consider this. Games developers WILL NOT develop uber games for the PS3 if they feel they won't get their money back. SOny needs to SELL TONS of these things if they hope to be around or developers will be backing off like they already are. Do PS3 people not get reality ? Do they think the makers of Assasins Creed and Unreal Tournament 2007 just decided on a whim to also be on 360 ? No.. they understand they won't make their money back.
PS3 was practically in development at the same time as 360.. Developers have had working versions of PS3 as long as the 360. People think because PS3 was delayed ONE YEAR that its behond in this sense. Its not ! Devs had had PS3 just a slong and still they don't have any good games because its not friendly to DEVS..
Look at PS2.. selling WELL !! 129 dollars.. thats why !
Oh.. and also because PS2 was ONLY released in CHINA two years ago !! Soon 360 will release there.. they are working with the Chinese Govt now on it..

Reality is .. PS3 is already a faliure. Its been out 8 weeks and its readily available ( not because they've made that many, but because they are 600 dollars ) It will be last this time around likely on price alone .. exclusive games will be on an all time low for this console compared to PS2 which was released against Gamecube alone..

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By daftrok on 1/21/2007 10:26:35 PM , Rating: 1
Once again, EA games has contracts both with Microsoft and Sony so the games will look similar, if not better, on Microsoft's 360 because Microsoft (and Nintendo) have more influence in Washington. And HD DVD is NOT better. Just because it is doing better at a Target somewhere or Amazon does not mean overall. And 360 will choke in China just like it choked in Japan. Reality is..its been fucking 8 weeks! You can't say a god damn console is a failure when they shipped a million units (not sold, but whatever). And how the hell can you predict exclusive games will be an all time low when they are not even frigging out yet? Wait and see, don't jump the gun 2 months after a console launched.

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By andrep74 on 1/22/2007 4:10:43 AM , Rating: 2
Even if your obscure reference, with no source, can be substantiated, it makes no sense to say that an American company has a better-looking game because of politics. I don't know how a politician could call a games company and tell them to "tone down the tree textures a bit" unless they are shareholders or on the board of directors. If the games developers are tasked with writing a game and given a budget and timeframe, they do what they can with what they have. If it costs more time to make the equivalent textures available to the game without affecting gameplay, then that may end up being a corner that is cut. Given superior memory bandwidth in the 360, it's not surprising that textures may be of lower quality on the PS3.

I find it amazing that you are whining about people calling PS3 a failure at eight weeks, and yet you are more than happy to call the 360 a failure in China before it's even out. I think the 360 failed in Japan because it's the Japanese consumer that wants to see the 360 fail because they are more nationalistic than you realize: they'll buy Sony because it's Japanese. Also, being that it's been sold as an equivalent, if not better, console than the 360, and given the relationship that Japanese developers have with Sony, the style of game that the Japanese consumer is interested in is mostly available on the PS3. So software is driving sales in Japan.

HD-DVD is indeed inferior to BD, but can the average consumer point out the differences? Probably not with enough consistency to make BD worth the royalties a single company collects every time it's used. Once PS3 games start to become epic enough that BD becomes necessary for game storage, I'm sure the next generation of consoles will be out and this whole HD/BD mess will be sorted out. I might be wrong, but until then I still have the right to purchase a PS3.

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By daftrok on 1/22/2007 1:38:19 PM , Rating: 2
You answered your own question "they are shareholders or on the board of directors". Granted, time frames are another factor, but the fact that several of the multi-platform games are having texture issues surprises me (though NBA 2k7 and Fight Night look amazing). The reason why it surprises me is because, according to CNET:

Xbox 360 Specs:

Playstation 3 Specs:

In the bandwidth, it seems to be quite similar, neither seem to outshine, unless I am misreading the data?

I said the 360 will fail in CHINA because that is an assumption. I didn't however say it was going to be a failure PERIOD. There's a difference (but I apologize for not specifying).

I hoped that the software and coding in the HD DVD can just be used on Blu Ray, that way both Sony and Microsoft (and everybody!) can benefit and the inferior technology can be chucked. I'm sure around spring or summer time when ps3 has more options their sales will go up, which in turn will make the Blu Ray drives cheaper, which in time will make Blu Ray players cheaper than the ps3, which in turn makes the ps3 cheaper (also the cell processor is beginning to be used in other devices, I think I heard cellphones and even a few Blu ray players, but I'm not sure on that)

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By ViperROhb34 on 1/22/2007 2:40:13 PM , Rating: 2
Actually if you look at the specs you'll see why you have no idea what you are talking about in the links you posted.

The Ps3 and Xbox 360 might be similar, but the Xbox 360's bandwidth is better.

• RSX @550MHz
System Bandwidth
• RSX: Bandwidth 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s(read)

Xbox 360
Custom ATI Graphics Processor
• 500MHz processor
• 10 MB of embedded DRAM (thats eDRAM in the GPU)
22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
• 256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
• 21.6 GB/s front-side bus

Notice the 10MB bulit into the Xbox 360 ?
Its bandwidth is 256 GB !! The Ps3 doesnt have this.
Data can be moved in and out at tremndous speeds.
Its not alot of memory if you don't understand caching, but when you can move data in and out that fast it doesnt need to be that big. Point is this makes a difference.

On top of that the RSX bandwidth in "reading" is a mere 15GB a second.. compared to the Xbox 360 which cna fully utilize the FSB at 22.4 GB on read and write!!

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By ViperROhb34 on 1/22/2007 6:01:59 PM , Rating: 2
Triangle Setup
Xbox 360 - 500 Million Triangles/sec
PS3 - 250 Million Triangles/sec

Vertex Shader Processing
Xbox 360 - 6.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 2.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 16 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 1.5 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 12 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 8 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
PS3 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec

Filtered Texture Fetch
Xbox 360 - 8.0 Billion Texels/sec
PS3 - 12.0 Billion Texels/sec

Vertex Texture Fetch
Xbox 360 - 8.0 Billion Texels/sec
PS3 - 4.0 Billion Texels/sec

Pixel Shader Processing with 16 Filtered Texels Per Cycle (Pixel ALU x Clock)
Xbox 360 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 20.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 40 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 18.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 36 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 32 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
PS3 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec

Pixel Shader Processing without Textures (Pixel ALU x Clock)
Xbox 360 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 20.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 40 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 18.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 36 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 32 of the 48 Unified Pipelines)
PS3 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec

Multisampled Fill Rate
Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Samples/sec (8 ROPS x 4 Samples x 500MHz)
PS3 - 8.0 Billion Samples/sec (8 ROPS x 2 Samples x 500MHz)

Pixel Fill Rate with 4x Multisampled Anti-Aliasing
Xbox 360 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 4 Samples x 500MHz / 4)
PS3 - 2.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 2 Samples x 500MHz / 4)

Pixel Fill Rate without Anti-Aliasing
Xbox 360 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 500MHz)
PS3 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 500MHz)

Frame Buffer Bandwidth
Xbox 360 - 256.0 GB/sec (dedicated for frame buffer rendering)
PS3 - 20.8 GB/sec (shared with other graphics data: textures and vertices)
PS3 - 10.8 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for textures and vertices)
PS3 - 8.4 GB/sec (with 12.4 GB/sec subtracted for textures and vertices)

Texture/Vertex Memory Bandwidth
Xbox 360 - 22.4 GB/sec (shared with CPU)
Xbox 360 - 14.4 GB/sec (with 8.0 GB/sec subtracted for CPU)
Xbox 360 - 12.4 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for CPU)
PS3 - 20.8 GB/sec (shared with frame buffer)
PS3 - 10.8 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for frame buffer)
PS3 - 8.4 GB/sec (with 12.4 GB/sec subtracted for frame buffer)

Shader Model
Xbox 360 - Shader Model 3.0+ / Unified Shader Architecture
PS3 - Shader Model 3.0 / Discrete Shader Architecture

Xbox 360 has the advantage in most cases.

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By daftrok on 1/22/2007 8:54:44 PM , Rating: 1
"The Inquirer cited PS3 triangle setup rates of 270 million per second, compared to the 360's 500 million.

Developers, however, seem to have taken issue with the report, telling that the figures are meaningless and lacking in context. A developer, who could not be named for fear of breaching an NDA, stated that the numbers were not necessarily reflective of game performance, noting that theoretically the PS2 boasted a higher triangle number than the Xbox (which was of course far more powerful, in practice)."

Also, Viper, perhaps you should have shown all of chairmansteve's spec sheet, like in the beginning:

"Let's look at the maximum theoretical numbers for the Xbox 360 and PS3 GPUs.
Some PS3 GPU (RSX) specs are still not confirmed. It's assumed to have 24 pixel pipelines, 8 vertex pipelines, 8 ROPS (raster), and 550MHz clock speed. But any of those could change, especially the clock speed."

So the specs given are in fact theoretical (and were given several months before launch, so these specs for the ps3 are in fact not confirmed).

These specs are mostly irrelevant. The processor for the playstation 2 was 1/3 the power of the xbox and xbox was slightly graphically better than the playstation 2, but, despite what these numbers show, the ps3 and xbox 360 are much more closer when it comes to processing power (also the architecture of the ps3 is more advanced; the ps2 had 1/3 of the processing power but stayed nearly on par with all of the multi-platform games of the xbox). Plus, the games look amazing and will look amazing, will have true 1080p and will be cheaper as time moves on.

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By ViperROhb34 on 1/22/2007 2:23:04 PM , Rating: 2
When did you see PS2 lose any exclusive titles to Gamecube ?
It didnt happen ! So far three games that were supposed to be EXCLUSIVES for PS3 have been ported to Xbox 360. Don't you ever watch G4? Developers know this 600 dollar unit is priced too high to pull the kind of numbers PS2 did.

Sony has shipped a million but the numbers bought reflect around 600-700k and AT LEAST half of those people bought them with intentions of re-selling on Ebay. I can buy a PS3 now at 8 weeks for store price. When 360 had been out for 6-7 months.. it was still selling for 1200 on Ebay and very hard to find at stores.

The fact that Final Fantasy Creator and a few other Japanese developers - well respected ones- have decided to develop Blue Dragon for 360 says MS is doing something right. 360 still has a chance to do well in Japan if this game is as a good as the reviews say and on top of that they are being given in a game what they want.

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By daftrok on 1/22/2007 9:00:51 PM , Rating: 1
OH WOW A WHOPPING 3 GAMES. Grand Theft Auto, and two others I forgot because I DONT CARE. And the 360 was hard to find because they were working on the HORRIBLE overheating issues. And one Blue Dragon game for the 360 doesn't mean all the Japanese games will start flooding towards 360. And the reason why PS2 didn't lose any exclusivs to Gamecube because with the exception of Mario and Resident Evil 4, Gamecube SUCKS.

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By daftrok on 1/22/2007 10:26:42 PM , Rating: 1
Viper..I'm tired. I'm tired of this pointless back and forth arguing. Lets just say this:

"Both the Xbox 360 and PS3 had very rough launches.

The 360 had serious overheating issues in the beginning and initially had very few games for the consumer to choose from, and even most of those games were available in previous generation consoles. Propriety was another issue, as special charge kits, special wireless adapters, special HDDS, special power cables, and even at one point special remotes were needed to get the full experience of Xbox 360. It has been highly critiqued that the 360 did not plan as far ahead as one might have hoped, with lack of HDMI, 1080p, bluetooth technology, and limited usb ports for connectivity. However, the upgrades this year has pushed the expectations higher than expected for the 360 and now will include HDMI (though argued to be a bit unfair for those first buyers) to make TRUE 1080p more of a possibility for HD DVD movies and (if DVDs can deliver) games. IPTV is a unique idea and allows users to watch shows in HD without adding strain to the HDD. However, it has been seen that the renting of HD movies and television shows can lead to serious issues, as 13 usable GBs will not suffice for storage as time progresses. It is still unsure what Microsoft will do. Perhaps they will allow users to upgrade their HDD on their own without buying HDDs from Microsoft itself. Perhaps not. We shall wait and see.

The PS3 was hit by blu-laser diode production issues, massive battery recalls which in turn forced Sony to check, double check, and check again that the batteries in the controllers and the internal AC adapter was up to spec and not potent to explosions. The launch number was cut, but has shipped over one million units (though not sold that many yet) so far. The lack of games and (though not as well known) scalar issues and price have discouraged consumers from buying the console. However, as more games come along, it will push sales. Also, the cell processor and Blu-Ray disc drives in production have exceeded 2 million and will in time bring down production costs for the playstation 3. Playstation 3 focused more on making sure that hardware would be solved and any software problems can be simply solved with an update. However, scaling issues have become a more serious issue and it is still quite unclear as to whether or not this will be solved with a simple update. We shall wait and see.

Overall, though both had rough launches, both have their strength and weaknesses. At this point it is a bit unclear as to what the future holds for both, but we shall wait and see."

Good? Alright. I'm spent.

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By ViperROhb34 on 1/21/2007 7:48:28 PM , Rating: 2
PS : One more thing. In your reference to "Resistance Fall Of Man" Ive seen and played it.. Its graphics are hardly cutting edge and nowhere near Gears. It's not taxing to the memory bandwidth. Its slightly better then Call of Duty 2 graphically.

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By daftrok on 1/22/2007 1:39:22 PM , Rating: 2
They are quite close, though Gears of War has much nicer water effects (and decapitation :))

RE: Solution to sony's problems
By daftrok on 1/21/2007 7:05:33 PM , Rating: 2
40 player online Resistance: Fall of Man.

Gates wants too much control.
By KeithSloan on 1/21/2007 10:55:14 AM , Rating: 2
Watch IPTV and you MUST watch commercials. This is just another case of Bill Gates wanting too much control. No matter if its Music on a Zune being DRM'ed and No sharing of MP3 content to the lock downs in Vista I am getting fed up with Bill dictating what I can and cannot do. Clearly he wants IPTV to be restricted to xbox 360 and media centre where he can excert control. I hope we get IPTV in other forms, either that or I will not participate

RE: Gates wants too much control.
By daftrok on 1/21/2007 10:27:48 PM , Rating: 2
This propriety bullshit is starting to piss me off, Gates...

RE: Gates wants too much control.
By andrep74 on 1/22/2007 4:39:20 AM , Rating: 2
Then do what millions of consumers did when Sony did the same thing and DON'T BUY IT!!!

My informal survey based upon people whining about DRM leads me to the conclusion that those who most actively whine are the ones most likely to share MP3s with their friends. I thought I had a fairly respectable 250 CD collection; after most were ripped to my computer they took about just under 10GB. I still don't know how it's possible for so many people to have a 60GB iPod chock-a-block with music unless they have over a 1000+ CD collection (and I would call those rare, indeed) or have "shared" music with their friends. My point is that I've never had a problem with DRM because any legitimate use can be accommodated; if anything, the legal usage is made that much more convoluted because of illegal usage.

But don't blame the industry for being "greedy" or lacking "business foresight" for not being on the new business model; blame your friends for stealing music from many wealthy people who'd legitimately like to get paid for it. If you don't like the price of a CD, that doesn't justify stealing its content...

RE: Gates wants too much control.
By XtremeM3 on 1/22/2007 8:05:19 AM , Rating: 2
Very well said...

I think it's funny how upset people get when a business model is not tailored to their specific needs and/or wants. How dare Bill Gates think of putting commercials to either a. offset cost or b. make money(oh noes). Seriously, what do you think microsoft is. It's a business. They WANT to make money. They are not here to make your life more enjoyable, easier, or fun. They want to sell a product or service to make money to buy stuff (see George Carlin for def. of "stuff"). As new as a concept as that may sound to some...that's the way things have been FOREVER. (minus the communists)

As far as DRM...exactly. The people who gripe the MOST about DRM are those who are or want to do something "illegal". Or those who wish to interpret the law to allow them to do things for themselves. I'm no angel when it comes to obtaining music, but I'm also not bitching that companies don't make it super easy to share out music illegally. That's just spoiled brats with the mindset that it should be ok to steal, because they can't afford to buy everything they want.

my $0.02.


RE: Gates wants too much control.
By daftrok on 1/22/2007 1:50:43 PM , Rating: 2
I will blame the industry! I want to be able to download a song (a dollar) and put it wherever I damn well please! (my console, my Creative Muvo2 FM, my computer, a CD) without paying 1 dollar for each location, dammit! I don't want to spend 10 to 15 dollars to get a rechargeable kit for my wireless 360 controller when a 2-5 dollar usb cable should be enough! I don't want to spend 60-100 dollars on a USB wireless adapter when a 10 dollar one will do just fine. And I don't want to spend 50-100 dollars for a 20 GB HDD when I can get a 160 GB one and a 3.5" to 2.5" adapter for less than that. And on top of that, they made the plug from the wall to the AC adapter with a notch so that you can't use standard plugs and you have to use theirs! What the FUCK! And if I am paying 40-50 dollars a month for High Definition Digital Cable with HD DVR, I should be able to record a show or movie and transfer it to a DVD so I can watch it whenever I want and not use up space on my DVR. So I WILL blame the industry for being greedy because THEY ARE. And seriously, they're wealthy...FUCK THEM! They are getting paid enough with making songs for movies, being IN movies, getting sponsorship, and performing in concerts (and of course the loyal that buy their CDs). I'm not saying download for free everything, I am saying let us have some leniency.

RE: Gates wants too much control.
By XtremeM3 on 1/23/2007 6:32:00 AM , Rating: 2
I will blame the industry! I want to be able to download a song (a dollar) and put it wherever I damn well please! (my console, my Creative Muvo2 FM, my computer, a CD) without paying 1 dollar for each location, dammit! it from the company that provides the song for a dollar without DRM. Don't get mad at the way a company provides a service. Don't get pissed at iTunes because they made sure they're stuff works with the ipod, but won't work with your Muvo. Don't be suprised that the iTunes(Apple) service works with the iPod(Apple again, holy cow - conspiracy!!!) but not everything else you want. Shame on them for supporting their own product but not everything else. It should be on Apples iTunes shoulders to provide music to be listened to on any medium. /fantasyland

I don't want to spend 10 to 15 dollars to get a rechargeable kit for my wireless 360 controller when a 2-5 dollar usb cable should be enough! I don't want to spend 60-100 dollars on a USB wireless adapter when a 10 dollar one will do just fine. And I don't want to spend 50-100 dollars for a 20 GB HDD when I can get a 160 GB one and a 3.5" to 2.5" adapter for less than that.

When you make a console and controller you can make sure to make it all use standard connections so that you have no opportunity to make money on accessories (did you sleep through ecomomics?)


So I WILL blame the industry for being greedy because THEY ARE. And seriously, they're wealthy...FUCK THEM! They are getting paid enough with making songs for movies, being IN movies, getting sponsorship, and performing in concerts (and of course the loyal that buy their CDs). I'm not saying download for free everything, I am saying let us have some leniency.

Sounds like someone has a little jealousy there. Don't hate on others because they are making money. Everything you are bitching about are products or services provided by companies whose primary goal is to make money. Not to make your life easier or fun - as I said above. And the thought that they are wealthy enough...c'mon now, that's just silly. "Ok guys have enough $ now...go ahead and start providing for free for all us broke ass people that don't have real paying jobs."

Ahhh..that was therapeutic...


My sphincter just cramped when I read this....
By rtrski on 1/20/2007 10:06:56 PM , Rating: 4
Bill Gates also made mention that content providers are likely to be elated with the idea that no IPTV content would be stored on the Xbox 360's hard drive. “It means you can insert ads that are up to date. You can control how much ad skipping you allow.

That, my friends, is the beginning of the end of IPTV in my opinion.... <sigh> If you're paying for premium content, you're already PAYING . Why do you also have to be forced to watch ads at all????

RE: My sphincter just cramped when I read this....
By Quiksel on 1/20/07, Rating: 0
RE: My sphincter just cramped when I read this....
By daftrok on 1/20/2007 11:26:57 PM , Rating: 2
Or just get an HD DVR with Cox Communications or Time Warner Cable, record the shows before watching anything, and fast forward through the ads! Fuck the system! (and well worth the extra 10 bucks a month)

By rtrski on 1/30/2007 4:44:56 PM , Rating: 2
Obviously you've not read that they're talking about preventing you from 'skipping' ads at all with firmware updates, content tokens, etc. (None of which is implemented yet, but they're all slavering to do it.) HBO even reportedly requested some means of 'autodeleting' your recordings of premium shows e.g. Sopranos and the like so you can't store one episode past the debut of the next...seems they think it cuts into sales of the season DVDs later on.

You buy their DVR, you're locked into whatever they do to the firmware afterward. I was hoping IPTV might be an alternative to that (I'd even pay more.) But looks like they'll close any perceived loopholes in forcing their advertising down your optic nerve *quicker* here, since they're starting from the ground up.

By rtrski on 1/30/2007 4:38:52 PM , Rating: 2
Except the whole idea of IPTV is supposed to be TV on demand. Not prescheduled, with integrated commercials - I pay directly for the bandwidth to give me the content, not just for the 'receiver' to pick up content already being beamed out every which way.

You buy you want commercials on them? Do you expect to get downloaded commercials with your iTunes purchases?

By hstewarth on 1/22/2007 3:22:20 PM , Rating: 2
If you remember the past statements from Microsoft, 1080p gaming was stated as impossible.

I own a 360 and PS3 and a couple of things come to mind.

1. 1080p is definely possible on PS3 amd looks much better than standard 720p and 1080i
2. If HDMI connector is not available on existing 360's - then I sure will not purchase a new 360 just for it.
3. I expected the HD DVD drive to include a HDMI cable
4. Microsoft should have done the sony approach to hard drive. I have 20G PS3 - it takes a couple of minutes to convert it to a 120G PS3. $100 for a 20G drive is a rip off - who buys these anyway - should be $100 for atleast 60 or 80G. Maybe I would consider purchasing one.

Costumer focus...
By oTAL on 1/23/2007 6:21:47 AM , Rating: 2
I hate it when companies do this... people ask for a service or a product and, instead of providing it, they try to explain you why you don't need it... it may make sense in some extreme situations, but I'd say that even in the best cases it's no more than a workaround for a costumer issue. People WANT larger HDDs. This is a fact! If people want them, then you - as a costumer driven enterprise - should just given it to them or find an equally good way to solve their need. It won't do any good to try and explain people why they don't need what they want.....

As for the rest of the article, go MS... nice job on this one. One of the amazing things about this company is its ability to learn and adapt. They turn the impossible into hard and the hard into reality. Maybe we will see something similar in the MP3 player market?

some relevance
By obama on 1/26/2007 9:15:38 AM , Rating: 2
during a work stint at the Microsoft, a colleague and I were driving around the MS campus. there was some big launch and people were gathering at one of the open fields. My colleague was looking over at the event and failed to see the stop sign.
There was a sudden jerk as he slammed on the breaks as a group of people were crossing the cross-walk. One of the people was Bill Gates himself. We almost killed him.

By littlebitstrouds on 1/20/07, Rating: -1
By gramboh on 1/20/07, Rating: 0
By Circle T on 1/20/2007 5:25:24 PM , Rating: 3
Your car analogy doesn't work here. If a car has no wheels, it doesn't drive. Those are critical items, not features. But, the things this new version of the 360 are going to come with are just MORE features.

You don't need HDMI to play games. You don't need a bigger HDD to play games. You don't need the smaller, cooler processor to play games. Those are all just things that they will/might add to the console to give people more options. No wheels and your car doesn't move. But, whether you have a 1st gen Core unit, or this new version with all the extra stuff, you will still both be able to play games.

This is really no shock. Consoles get updates all the time. The 1st gen PS2 got many updates, I don't hear people complaining about that. Should I have been mad when the slim PSTwo came out?? It was much smaller, quieter, had progressive output for DVD playback, and had the Network adapter built in. People with original PS2, like myself, didn't get that. Should we be mad?? No. New, cheaper technology comes along all the time, and updates are inevitable.

This newer version 360 will most likely not come out until late this year. That will be basically 2 years it will have been on the market. Its not like this thing is coming out 6 months after launch. Consoles are always updated, get over it.

By daftrok on 1/20/2007 6:57:53 PM , Rating: 1
The slimmer ps2 does not have progressive scan for DVD playback, it is still 480i. Also, smaller and quieter is irrelevent, what is relevant is the fact that though the network adapter was built in, YOU COULD GET IT FOR THE ORIGINAL PS2. They are giving HDMI (something they should have done in the first place) and a bigger HDD (granted I'm sure you can get that for the original 360). I think people are getting pissed with the fact that this upgrade is giving things the original can not imitate and that why people are mad. The only difference the slim ps2 had with the original was that it was smaller (not quieter, both were pretty silent) and had built-in adapter. And they waited well over three years before introducing the upgrade, and not months after the launch of the other two competitors.

By logaldinho on 1/21/2007 5:03:43 AM , Rating: 3
actually the slim model _did_ include progressive scan. should my friend be upset because his old ps2 is not white like the latest ps2 release is now? THEY COULD HAVE MADE IT WHITE TO BEGIN WITH with your reasoning.

By daftrok on 1/21/2007 7:04:19 PM , Rating: 2're talking about features, not design.

By Circle T on 1/21/2007 8:29:52 PM , Rating: 2
But, are any of these features REQUIRED to do anything you can't accomplish today with the current hardware?? No.

Can you play the same games now as you will be able to with this new version?? Yes. Can you watch high-def TV shows and movies, along with HD-DVD movie content with the current hardware?? Yep. With the current 20GB HDD, can you take advantage of all the things XBL offers?? Yes. And, will you be able to take advantage of the IPTV service with the current hardware, even Core systems?? Yes, again.

I think all of these features are very nice, and will make an already good system even better. But, none of them are required, so its a CHOICE for the consumer, not a REQUIREMENT for use.

By daftrok on 1/21/2007 10:21:29 PM , Rating: 2
When are features ever required? We can all play with composite just fine. My point is that upgrades, though nice, should not have things that its predecessor cannot imitate (I'm only really talking about HDMI). If there was a usb HDMI adapter for the 360 then awesome, but that ain't gonna happen. The slim ps2 had ethernet and modem built in, but you can get that for the original as well (also, the original had progressive scan, what are people saying? We played God of War at 480p using the old ps2; my slim ps2 doesn't do progressive scan for DVD movies either.) And the reason why HDMI is such a big issue is because though the 360 can do 1080p via component and VGA, a lot of televisions cannot handle 1080p via analog channels (though, admittedly, the more recent televisions are doing a better job of it).

By andrep74 on 1/22/2007 3:42:33 AM , Rating: 2
It might be too early to call the PS3 a failure, but if consumers, film studios, and the adult entertainment industry are siding with HD-DVD; PS3 consoles are collecting dust on the shelves, compared to the Wii and 360, making it difficult for Sony and developers to recoup costs; Microsoft has Gears of War to hold the title of the best-looking game, ever; Sony's history of creating even what many people called superior technology, and having it not do well for various reasons (like: Betamax, MiniDisc, SACD, and MemoryStick): then there is something to worry about. Of course, if PS3 owners think that Resistance: Fall of Man is the shiz-nit, then maybe there are enough "blind" fans to help Sony break even on this console.

By daftrok on 1/22/2007 1:16:29 PM , Rating: 2
Where are you hearing about the film studios siding with HD DVD? Can someone (YOU!) explain this to me? Also, porn is a very small percentage in the DVD industry (less than 5%, actually). PS3 aren't "collecting dust" (though it attracts it pretty well, shiny comes at a price). Agreed that developers are recouping costs, but this is common in the beginning of a console and will compensate as soon as production costs of the blu-ray drive and cell processor go down, thus making the ps3 cheaper (most likely by the end of this year or beginning of next). Gears of War looks great, but the AI just pissed me off (also, wait for Metal Gear Solid 4, I doubt it will come on 360 at the same time as ps3). And the fact that Resistance: Fall of Man is one of the very few console games allowing you to have that many people on at the same time online, being able to break a hole in a window so you can snipe...I don't know what people are saying that Resistance doesn't look great, what is bad looking about it? Granted Gears looks slightly better, but not by much. And Fall of Man isn't the only game coming for the ps3 that will be jaw dropping (Motorstorm, Gran Turismo 5, Metal Gear Solid 4 , Tekken 6, NBA 2K7, Devil May Cry 4, Final Fantasy 13, Fall of Man 2?, Killzone 2?, Oblivion, FEAR, Fight Night 3, Armored Core 4, etc.)

By ViperROhb34 on 1/22/2007 2:25:38 PM , Rating: 2
If you say that Gears is slightly better then Resistance Fall of Man.. I'd have to say you haven't played them both on a High Def Tv as I have and seen the difference.

The difference is more then slight in detail. On a regular tv.. Resistance looks much closer to Gears because you lose so much detail. Ona regular TV you can see Gears is good, but it doesnt compare to watching it a 50 some inch Plasma..

By daftrok on 1/22/2007 9:48:35 PM , Rating: 2
Oh no doubt, visually Gears of War is amazing, however in different aspects of Resistance. For instance, the texturing and mapping on Gears of War is no doubt superior, however the 40 players simultaneously with very little frame rate drop, amazing physics and more fast paced action on Resistance ups its points, so overall Gears of War's superior mapping and texturing visuals is downscaled to slight because of this.

By DingieM on 1/23/2007 6:03:36 AM , Rating: 2
I've seen video comparison on GameTrailers between Gears and Resistance and its obvious that Gears is miles ahead of Resistance in terms of visual quality.
I demand the highest visual quality in games and its very clear the Xbox360 has a vastly superior GPU.
But the PS3 has a much faster main CPU for physics etc, granted that only the most highly skilled game programmers may understand the programming model of the Cell for game applications.

At the end it comes down to the games people will be able to play on the machines.
For me its Gears, Mass Effect etc. I want to play and games with such quality can only be achieved on the Xbox360 and the PC.
PS3 will have its nice games and some of them will look great but graphically it lacks behind.
If I look at screenshots of the latest Final Fantasy (which is still in development), MGS4 etc. I clearly see images that are not entirely crisp and I don't want that. Maybe people will notice it less while playing but sometimes I want to stand still and look at the graphics of a game.

Seriously Sony really screwed up by overhyping the PS3 and people are falling for that. And people will get less than Sony promises and fooling themselves into believing it will come...
Shame on Sony.

By daftrok on 1/23/2007 1:18:27 PM , Rating: 2
Are you gonna sit there with a straight face and tell me this:

and this:

and this:

AND this:

Are not entirely crisp? Note that this images are in fact DOWNSCALED. You are picky as hell! WAIT for the games to come out and make a judgment. Remember back in June when they said Motorstorm looked bad? Look at it now!

By Circle T on 1/22/2007 8:59:23 AM , Rating: 2
First, the original PS2 did have progressive scan. But only when it reached the 5th or so revision. If you got a PS2 at launch, or within a couple years of launch, you don't have it. And yes, my slim PSTwo will play movies in progressive scan. Not sure whats up with yours.

But, I guess what I'm getting at is, we should just be happy that MS is ADDING these things to the unit, not taking them away. The slim PSTwo couldn't use the HDD and some accessories from the larger PS2. And the Gamecube, in later revisions, got rid of the port that was required if you wanted to use the component cables and play in progressive scan. We should get mad at them for taking things away, not MS giving more options.

I just don't see where people can get mad. Newer, better stuff comes out all the time. To think a console will launch and have its hardware design and specs frozen is a bit unreasonable. And as I said before, these things aren't required. If MS released, say, Halo 3, and it would only play using the large HDD or HDMI port, there would be an uproar. But, these things are just more options.

By daftrok on 1/22/2007 1:04:13 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. But damn, I found the progressive scan option in settings during a DVD but it won't freaking let me turn it on! ARGH!

By stmok on 1/20/2007 9:07:27 PM , Rating: 2
If at first you don't succeed...Call it version 1.0

Its situations like these, that get me waiting for ver 2.0 or even ver 3.0 of products. (it doesn't matter if its consoles, other hardware or software).

Because with each iteration, they solve the problems or deficiencies of the last. The issue for consumers, is that they end up paying for the "debugging process" with each new revision. :(

"We basically took a look at this situation and said, this is bullshit." -- Newegg Chief Legal Officer Lee Cheng's take on patent troll Soverain
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