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Print 130 comment(s) - last by BuckinBottoms.. on May 16 at 1:52 PM

A little known bill is now causing a firestorm among free speech experts

An internet bill re-introduced in Congress by Representative Linda Sanchez aims to turn internet flaming and harassment into a felony, with a growing number of Congressman and others becoming familiar with the bill.

Specifically, H.R. 1966, originally filed on April 2, will make it a felony if the messages have "the intent is to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person."  People using electronic means to harass others face possible fines or jail sentence up to two years, or both.

To date, the bill has the support of Sanchez and 14 other members of Congress, with Sanchez continuing to rally support for the bill.

Critics of the bill have come forward, as one blogger from the National Review Online's Media Blog called the bill the "Censorship Act of 2009."  UCLA Law Professor Eugene Volokh also criticized the bill, saying a number of everyday scenarios could be considered illegal by the bill, if the communications are "severe" enough.

Sanchez decided to create the bill, called the Megan Meier Cyberbullying Prevention Act, after Megan Meier killed herself in 2007 after being bullied on social networking MySpace. This is the second attempt, after a previous one in May 2008, to have the bill signed into law.

Sanchez defended the bill, stating,  "Congress has no interest in censoring speech and it will not do so if it passes this bill.  Put simply, this legislation would be used as a tool for a judge and jury to determine whether there is significant evidence to prove that a person 'cyberbullied' another. That is: did they have the required intent, did they use electronic means of communication, and was the communication severe, hostile, and repeated. So—bloggers, emailers, texters, spiteful exes, and those who have blogged against this bill have no fear—your words are still protected under the same American values."

It should be interesting to hear what other politicians and internet privacy experts say when they become aware of the bill that seemingly has slipped through the cracks up until this point.  The bill likely won't come close to being signed into law, but free speech experts are surprised 15 members of Congress are supporting the bill, and are looking for others to also support it.



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Bullying
By Spivonious on 5/11/2009 12:56:32 PM , Rating: 5
Is regular bullying illegal? No, therefore "cyber"-bullying isn't either.

Geez, the language in this bill is so vague that if I downrate someone's comment here on DT and they could prove that I meant to cause emotional distress to that person, I could be fined and/or put in jail. That's just ridiculous. Even a Democrat-controlled Congress isn't going to pass this bill.




RE: Bullying
By fatedtodie on 5/11/2009 1:13:39 PM , Rating: 1
Actually you are not quite right.

Stalking... is illegal.
Verbal insults can be called "harrassment" and can be a form of assault.

So basically yes, bullying is illegal, it just might take more than 30 seconds to translate teh online version to the offline one. If it leads to a suicide or or emotional distress enough to require therapy I do think the bully should be held accountable.


RE: Bullying
By 91TTZ on 5/11/2009 2:00:43 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
If it leads to a suicide or or emotional distress enough to require therapy I do think the bully should be held accountable.


But the problem is that you don't know the person that you're talking to. Something that would mildly peeve a normal person might cause a non-so-normal person to go berserk. If you tell me that I'm an idiot, it might annoy me. But if you say that to a deranged person they might kill themself or someone else. Would those deaths really be your fault, or should it be their fault that they flipped out over something minor?


RE: Bullying
By pnyffeler on 5/11/2009 5:08:50 PM , Rating: 5
Under the law, it doesn't matter that what you do wouldn't harm a "normal person."

Say for example slapped somebody on the back of the head for saying something stupid. For a "normal" person, they could press charges for battery, but they probably won't because there's not really any harm.

Now imagine the person had a brain injury that caused them to go into convulsions and die after you hit them. The slap wouldn't have harmed a "normal" person, but you're going to go to prison for killing the person (i.e. involuntary manslaughter or something similar) because you intended to slap them and it caused their death.

That said, I don't agree with the bill. If somebody you've never met makes an anonymous blog which drives you to kill yourself, you've got more problems than one little ol' cyberbully.


RE: Bullying
By Lifted on 5/11/2009 9:05:59 PM , Rating: 5
This article is causing me emotional distress. Instead of cherry picking text from the proposed bill, why not at least post the entire sentence you picked it from? Oh, that would make your analysis seem silly. Well, it is. Since you couldn't be bothered to post even the sentence in it's entire, you could at least post a link to it so others can go read it themselves.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.196...

"Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person, using electronic means to support severe, repeated, and hostile behavior , shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

While I feel the text is still too vague, it sure looks different now.


RE: Bullying
By frozentundra123456 on 5/11/2009 10:52:30 PM , Rating: 2
Isnt there a concept it tort law about being responsible for the making an item safe if used in the way one would normally expect it to be used? Havent studied this in a while, so I dont know the exact wording. I am not a lawyer, but did take some business courses about the subject. Maybe this could be applied to this situation. If what someone posts on the internet is so outlandish as to cause severe distress to a normal person they should be held legally responsible.


RE: Bullying
By inperfectdarkness on 5/12/2009 6:05:54 PM , Rating: 2
your comment offends me deeply. i'm going to kill someone now.


RE: Bullying
By omnicronx on 5/11/2009 2:03:09 PM , Rating: 4
You said it yourself, verbal insults can be considered 'harassment' but it is very hard to make that case.

Yes it is sad that this girl died, and I do not condone what that woman did, but you cannot forgo freedom of speech because of a few bad apples.

Unless you are in a specific places which bans such activity, such as in school, the workplace etc and you are not threatening someones life, well being, being racist etc, you are not really doing anything illegal.

If such a law is passed what is to stop things like this happening but on a far smaller scale? Are we going to have protective parents in our school offices every day of the week complaining about what another student said to them over MSN? Heres a thought.. watch your damn kids! You cannot control what happens at school, you surely can at home.


RE: Bullying
By Lightnix on 5/11/2009 3:07:18 PM , Rating: 2
Although I think that significant and malicious harassment to the point of emotional distress is something that should be dealt with, there's a line to be drawn. If you insult somebody that's not a positive thing, but it's unlikely going to be the root cause of a deep rooted emotional issue unless it's a significantly recurring issue, and even then there are likely to be other factors to consider.

I'm not wording this too well, but what I'm trying to get at is there is a difference between protection and sugar coating the world, but determining where that line is to be drawn is something very difficult to determine.


RE: Bullying
By Gul Westfale on 5/11/2009 3:21:34 PM , Rating: 5
if flaming is made illegal, dailytech and just about every other webforum will lose 75% of their posters/spammers/"pundits".

o'reilly et al would have to face jailtime.

this is not only ridiculous, it's also nearly unenforceable, especially with american sensitivities in mind. almost everything you could possibly imagine will offend an american. breasts, for example, or coffee that is hot. or coffee that is cold. or no coffee at all...

it would be much better to if
a) parents taught their children some manners so they can express themselves without resorting to insults

and
b) if those same parents lead by example.

we all know that will never happen.


RE: Bullying
By nixoofta on 5/11/2009 3:56:39 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
almost everything you could possibly imagine will offend an american.


I found this offensive.

:P


RE: Bullying
By JonnyDough on 5/12/2009 3:53:00 AM , Rating: 2
I didn't find it offensive, but then I'm just a working class American so maybe I didn't understand it.

At least that's what I'm told, although I have never heard anything about the non-working class so I have no basis for comparison. I think that class goes by some other name, although it's hard to distinguish members. With rich CEO's flying around in jets for leisure, so many people on welfare and unemployment, and then all the people just plain old out of work right now...it's just plum hard to tell who's in the "non-working class". But then again I AM just a working class American so I'm probably too ignorant to be able to categorize people anyway.

Since I was born an American I would likely take offense to myself if I knew I understood everything I just said.


RE: Bullying
By fatedtodie on 5/11/2009 4:48:15 PM , Rating: 1
Maybe some of these guys need to be locked up. If you have to be verbally harrassing to make your point doesn't that say your point is that much less worthwhile? If you can make you point through frustration, without aggression, your point GAINS favor.

As to your further comments...
Are you saying it is the parents fault the child is bullied? Is the bully and the child not responsible at all? Is our country so devoid of emotion that they can't take ownership of anything?

If I punch someone... I should be held responsible for ALL effects of that punch, from medical bills to counselling, to everything. If I tell someone they smell like a monkey... online, I should STILL be responsible for all the repercussions. I made the comment/post/harassing incident, so regardless if he/she laughs it off or hangs him/herself because of it, that is ultimately my fault.


RE: Bullying
By Lightnix on 5/11/2009 6:24:49 PM , Rating: 2
I think though that there's a difficult distinction to make between what you directly caused and the 'straw that broke the camel's back' scenario.

If you threw a punch at somebody, that's an obvious act of aggression with a clear intent to cause physical harm to somebody. On the other hand, you may have told somebody that they smell like a monkey, and they take that way too seriously, and hang themselves. It's fairly unlikely that they hung themselves just because of your insulting them, so much as a deep rooted psychological problem that was ultimately caused by something else, say, their parents smoothering the person in monkey faeces as a child, which you might not have been aware of.

That said, if it's continuous ongoing harassment, then yes, I agree there should certainly be action taken, as that's much more likely to be as a result of the individual than some unfortunate psychological problem they uncovered.


RE: Bullying
By fatedtodie on 5/12/2009 9:57:27 AM , Rating: 2
"If you threw a punch at somebody, that's an obvious act of aggression with a clear intent to cause physical harm to somebody."

So when you insult someone what do you expect aside from harm? Do you expect them to give you roses? Perhaps for them to invite you to their birthday party? An Insult is a VERBAL punch. Whether you mean to have it be a slap on the wrist or a punch to the face it is still assault, it is only in this moronic century that people have disowned themselves from RESPONSIBILITY OF THEIR OWN ACTIONS. If you do something the repercussions are your fault.

If your comment was "the straw that broke the camel's back" then it is still you that did it. It doesn't matter if it took 1 person or 100000 people. The only point that should come into play... is sentancing. =) Those that think otherwise should look up cause and effect, or study some basic physics that EVERY ACTION has an equal/or opposite REACTION. So you insult being the "action" and the suicide/pain/etc being the "reaction" that is simple physics.

You do it, you should get punished.


RE: Bullying
By LRonaldHubbs on 5/11/2009 4:57:39 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
almost everything you could possibly imagine will offend an american. breasts, for example, or coffee that is hot. or coffee that is cold. or no coffee at all...

Hey now, not all of us are whiney little bitches. I'm actually VERY difficult to offend. It does seem overall though that people are far too easily offended. People in general need to get over themselves and stop being so fussy about dumb shit.

Correct parental response to internet flaming:
What's that, son? Someone called you a fag on the internet? Well either tell his n00b-ass off or get over it!


RE: Bullying
By ggordonliddy on 5/11/09, Rating: -1
RE: Bullying
By CGfreak102 on 5/12/2009 5:44:30 AM , Rating: 2
Just a thought, if this was to be passed in America, how would they enforce it since you could just create a false account with some person address over in some out of the states country and then go through proxies and a change of your ip blah blah blah. I mean they could still track you down no problem, but wouldnt that require federal involement. I mean it almost seems unforcable.


RE: Bullying
By rburnham on 5/12/2009 10:33:10 AM , Rating: 2
Well sure, people could be good parents, and most of societies problems would go away... but as the late, great George Carlin said, "We don't have time for rational thought!"


RE: Bullying
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 5/12/2009 11:39:54 AM , Rating: 2
Tort laws in most jurisdictions limit the liability of parents for the intentional torts of their children to about $5-10K in damages. So parents have no incentive to police their kids. Plus, have you ever tried to police your kids' every move, especially online? That will never happen.


RE: Bullying
By sbtech on 5/12/2009 8:36:31 AM , Rating: 2
Freedom of speech is fine, as long as you don't hurt others by freely speaking. There should be a threshold.

Ahmadinejad's holocaust denial is his freedom of speech then. Now it doesn't look so good, does it?


RE: Bullying
By forum fall on 5/12/2009 8:54:50 AM , Rating: 2
Fuck off you dirty mother of a whore.


RE: Bullying
By DASQ on 5/11/2009 2:10:16 PM , Rating: 2
Accountable? This is a dangerous line to cross.

Once accountability is assumed or presumed, you can sue for so much as a mean look or a snide remark. Do you want to make America more sue-happy? You can claim anything caused 'emotion distress'.


RE: Bullying
By fatedtodie on 5/11/2009 4:40:14 PM , Rating: 2
Oh I forgot this is the 21st Century nobody wants to be accountable for their actions...


RE: Bullying
By AmishElvis on 5/11/2009 3:38:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Stalking... is illegal.

Can you quote the law that defines stalking and makes it illegal? Is it state or federal? I tried to find one and had no luck.
quote:
Verbal insults can be called "harrassment" [sic] and can be a form of assault.

Can you give us a court case that sets this precedent?

Sorry, but too many people make unsupported statements like this on forums and turn out to be just making stuff up. Not saying you are, for all I know you're a supreme court justice, but I'd still like to know what this statement is based on before I believe it.

--Amish Elvis


RE: Bullying
By BailoutBenny on 5/11/2009 3:53:06 PM , Rating: 2
NJ State statutes

2C:12-3 Terroristic threats (Verbal threats)
2C:12-10 Stalking; varying degrees

To a lesser degree but used as an umbrella

2C:12-1 Simple assault

Almost every state has laws like this. When the state passes a law, it is hard to argue as the state has the constitutional authority as a sovereign entity. When the government does is, i.e. Congress, then it is unconstitutional.


RE: Bullying
By Lakku on 5/12/2009 1:56:21 AM , Rating: 2
'Stalking' isn't illegal. All stalking means is that you follow someone around and keep a constant watch on them. IF you are doing this through public means, i.e. not on their property, not directly interfering with their day to day activity, not snooping into their privacy through anything other than public knowledge and public trash, than you cannot be arrested or fined. This is how paparazzi make their living. It becomes 'stalking', as movies and media generally portray, when you invade said persons personal space, actually confront the person multiple times or get physcial, or make repeated threats of harm while 'stalking'.


RE: Bullying
By BailoutBenny on 5/12/2009 8:47:32 PM , Rating: 2
Apparently you didn't read the state statute for stalking. In New Jersey stalking is defined as:

1. a. As used in this act:

(1)"Course of conduct" means repeatedly maintaining a visual or physical proximity to a person; directly, indirectly, or through third parties, by any action, method, device, or means, following, monitoring, observing, surveilling, threatening, or communicating to or about, a person, or interfering with a person's property; repeatedly committing harassment against a person; or repeatedly conveying, or causing to be conveyed, verbal or written threats or threats conveyed by any other means of communication or threats implied by conduct or a combination thereof directed at or toward a person.

(2)"Repeatedly" means on two or more occasions.

(3)"Emotional distress" means significant mental suffering or distress.

(4)"Cause a reasonable person to fear" means to cause fear which a reasonable victim, similarly situated, would have under the circumstances.

b.A person is guilty of stalking, a crime of the fourth degree, if he purposefully or knowingly engages in a course of conduct directed at a specific person that would cause a reasonable person to fear for his safety or the safety of a third person or suffer other emotional distress.

So, in summation, in New Jersey stalking is kind of contact or surveillance anywhere on 2 or more occasions that causes a person to fear for their safety or be in some other form of emotional distress. Stalking is definitely illegal in New Jersey.


RE: Bullying
By Procurion on 5/12/2009 9:31:01 AM , Rating: 2
Therein lies my problem with this bill. It is disgusting how lawmakers push their desire to be recognized. This person is using that situation to further her political career instead of doing what needed to be done.

The issue is that there was no way to prosecute the lady who "cyberbullied" that teen. The lady is stupid, childish, hateful or whatever adjective you might choose to use, but we are fast approaching a point where every movement, every syllable, even what our eyes see can be a felony. This is a spinning top that is wrapping tighter and tighter.

Our government cannot effectively assist with making sure children are well-fed and receive even "adequate" medical care, but they want to regulate and create more felons.....the girl was on a computer that she didn't have to buy, on an internet connection that wasn't necessary, talking and chatting when it wasn't necessary and her mother wasn't aware of.

There is an entire world of information not discussed....the girl didn't have one or two conversations in that chat and then hang herself. As pointed out earlier, this girl was disturbed. As badly as I feel about it, where were her parents during all of this? Also, think about how many laws are on the books. At what point does it become impossible to obey all without breaking others? At what point does it become impossible to know when you are or aren't breaking the law?

Common sense. That's all it takes. Prosecute that woman for being an evil person, for being mean-spirited, or for being worthless, but society is doing more to punish her than a year or two in jail will do. She is a pariah.


RE: Bullying
By Chernobyl68 on 5/11/2009 6:18:18 PM , Rating: 2
If there are already laws against stalking, assisted suicide, conspiracy to commit manslaughter, or whatever you want to call it, do we really need one more?

Its also worth mentioning, that in the case in question, the woman doing the "bullying" did so under false pre-tenses in pretending to be a teenage boy, to a girl that was known to her.

I don't think we need a law that makes forum flaming, which is generally just someone stirring up debate by making contoversial statements - annoying though it may be, a felony.


RE: Bullying
By CGfreak102 on 5/12/2009 5:40:08 AM , Rating: 1
Ok for one you need to first put your self out there in order to get bullyied. Two as the people of me have said how are we going to know what that persons mental state is at.


RE: Bullying
By AntiM on 5/11/2009 1:25:26 PM , Rating: 4
I seriously doubt this bill will make it into law. If it does, I will move to China where I can freely bully and hack Americans all I want.

Basically, if you don't want to be bullied, hacked, intimidated, or otherwise harassed and abused, then stay off the intenet, or at least stay out of forums and chat rooms and don't use email. When a person can't take being offended, they are basically saying "I'm a child and I need my parent (daddy government) to take care of me".


RE: Bullying
By MatthiasF on 5/11/2009 2:55:52 PM , Rating: 1
The era of the Internet as the digital Wild West will wane eventually. Anonymity will end, websites will have responsibilities and users will be held accountable for their behavior much like they are offline.

Thinking the lawlessness will live on forever is misguided and anyone who wants it to persist should reflect on why.


RE: Bullying
By LRonaldHubbs on 5/11/2009 3:44:15 PM , Rating: 2
Lawlessness FTW. Accountability FTL.


RE: Bullying
By TSS on 5/11/2009 7:13:34 PM , Rating: 2
becasue the internet is anarchy, i can trust the internet to be "by the people, for the people". which is more then i can say of the goverment and traditional media these days.

you should look up joseph goebbels and the rules he made for a propaganda machine. his propaganda is so effective, every little piece of propaganda since the 2nd world war has had the exact same style.

and the internet *completly* negates it. because it's anarchy. because it cannot be controlled. you can not "take something off the internet", even if that'd include a picture of a concentration camp. this seems moot since where not living in a world war at the moment. but to avoid a long post on that, i'll use the words of thomas jefferson instead:

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants".

i'm sure the powers that be will try to take control of internet. that's just as sure as peace not lasting forever. lets just hope they fail on this one.


RE: Bullying
By MatthiasF on 5/11/2009 9:13:49 PM , Rating: 2
In related news, Yahoo agreed to take down a profile made by a man portraying his ex-girlfriend and posting nudes. Courts recently absolved Yahoo from fault but made it clear that if Yahoo didn't remove the profile and photos as promised, the woman can sue them.

http://www.physorg.com/news161279231.html


RE: Bullying
By MatthiasF on 5/11/2009 9:23:12 PM , Rating: 2
A more detailed article than the AP's short blip.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/global-cio/leg...


RE: Bullying
By Starcub on 5/11/2009 4:10:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If it does, I will move to China where I can freely bully and hack Americans all I want.

And nobody but you and your govt. overlords will know about it. Have fun.


RE: Bullying
By Diesel Donkey on 5/11/2009 4:12:55 PM , Rating: 2
I don't entirely disagree with you at all, but I think you might have been a bit extreme here.

Isn't telling people to stay off the internet to avoid being harassed rather similar to telling people not to leave their home to avoid the same? There are protections against harassment in the "real world", so why not online? I'm not advocating cyber-police here or anything, but it is an interesting subject to consider.


RE: Bullying
By phattyboombatty on 5/11/2009 2:00:33 PM , Rating: 2
The reason this bill is limited to "cyber" bullying is because Congress has no power to police ordinary face to face bullying (it would try if it could).


RE: Bullying
By borowki2 on 5/11/2009 2:32:42 PM , Rating: 2
But bullying is recognized by the Law as tort, so you can't say that it's "legal" either.


RE: Bullying
By knutjb on 5/12/2009 12:37:02 AM , Rating: 2
This story has two points.

The first, bullying, the woman who harassed Megan did so in a contrived and malicious manner with intent to harm her emotionally. There should be a law to cover this kind of directed malevolence issue, the woman DID know Megan in a personal manner and this is NOT a free speech issue and laws are lacking in this area relating to the technology. However this bill and it's implementation has nothing to do with the problem at hand since it's way to broad in scope and spills over into 1st amendment issues.

The second is far more ominous from the end of the article:
quote:
It should be interesting to hear what other politicians and internet privacy experts say when they become aware of the bill that seemingly has slipped through the cracks up until this point. The bill likely won't come close to being signed into law, but free speech experts are surprised 15 members of Congress are supporting the bill, and are looking for others to also support it.


The scary part is the 15 supporters and the fact it almost slipped through the cracks. Look how fast some recent legislation made it through and nobody understood exactly what they passed and signed into law without a serious smell check.


RE: Bullying
By knutjb on 5/12/2009 12:47:30 AM , Rating: 2
Oh and some thing else that should scare most reasonable people, read Linda Sanchez's official House web page. It reads pretty much like a leading proponent for the far left nanny state. I think I just made a watch list...

http://lindasanchez.house.gov/index.cfm?section=ab...


RE: Bullying
By friction2009 on 5/12/2009 9:54:20 AM , Rating: 2
Attach a name and address to every internet post and let the problem fix itself.

On a serious note the pussification of our world is a rather large annoyance to myself. What you consider deep emotional trauma, I call experience. On a semi-related note, my little brother can no longer bring peanut butter sandwiches for lunch anymore because there are a few children allergic. Do not tamper with natural selection. If an internet post pushes somebody to cause harm to themselves so be it, I would rather them freak out at their home computer than a Starbuck's line.


RE: Bullying
By rcc on 5/12/2009 2:03:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
pussification of our world is a rather large annoyance to myself.


Amen!!! Now, if all the online flamers would quit hiding behind their fake IDs, we could punch them in the face when they went overboard. Unfortunately, the limiting factors that minimize "flaming" face to face, are totaly bypassed in the online world.


RE: Bullying
By rburnham on 5/12/2009 10:31:36 AM , Rating: 2
This bill would be fine if it was illegal to be an asshole. As it is, it is not. I wish it was. I mean really, if it was legal to punch someone in the face for being an asshole, imagine how much nicer people would probably be.

A man can dream, can't he?


totally and completely agree
By cgrecu77 on 5/11/2009 1:34:10 PM , Rating: 2
and I really don't understand how anyone can condone bullying?

The right of free speech doesn't include the right to verbally harass people, it doesn't give you the right to insult or threaten somebody.

and I would think bullying is illegal, but probably very hard to enforce. Physical abuse is definitely illegal, and some forms of verbal abuse are illegal too. Probably only the mildest form of bullying is not technically illegal




RE: totally and completely agree
By 91TTZ on 5/11/2009 2:32:39 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
The right of free speech doesn't include the right to verbally harass people, it doesn't give you the right to insult or threaten somebody


Actually, it DOES give you the right to insult somebody.


RE: totally and completely agree
By BuckinBottoms on 5/11/2009 2:52:48 PM , Rating: 4
The 1st amendment can be trumped, ie slander, libel, defamation, etc. There are always limitations.


RE: totally and completely agree
By 91TTZ on 5/11/2009 3:03:32 PM , Rating: 2
But that's something different. If I tell you that you're an idiot, that's just an insult. But if I tell other people that you're doing something illegal when you're not, that would be slander.

The difference is that one is directed at the person and meant to offend them, while the other is an attempt to ruin your reputation.


RE: totally and completely agree
By Starcub on 5/11/2009 4:19:52 PM , Rating: 2
It's complicated. What might be a insult to one person could be career ending for someoene else. Moreover, who decides what is an acceptable insult and how often insults might be permitted before it becomes harassment? Will the standard be applied universally?


RE: totally and completely agree
By LRonaldHubbs on 5/11/2009 4:27:33 PM , Rating: 5
It's quite simple, really. An insult is acceptable if general consensus is that it is funny. So the solution is to make all posts/threads/topics/articles everywhere into polls. If readers determine that insults within the material are funny, then it is not harassment. If it is not funny, then the author will be issued an automatic citation and court date via email.

We already do the rating system here, so lets move it to the next level. Pirks will be gone within a matter of hours...


RE: totally and completely agree
By fatedtodie on 5/11/2009 4:43:09 PM , Rating: 2
So if a group of people hate one person, that means the person deserves to be harrassed and if he is popular it isnt allowed?

What sort of bizzaro world do you live in?

Bad = Bad even if it is just 1 person vs 1 person.


By LRonaldHubbs on 5/11/2009 4:47:48 PM , Rating: 2
A world in which people are able to detect sarcasm and hyperbole. Oh, wait...nvm.


RE: totally and completely agree
By MatthiasF on 5/11/2009 3:11:06 PM , Rating: 3
The First Amendment is not "trumped". It never applied.

If you want to go online and make public posts calling the government filthy names or making untrue accusations, you're covered under the First Amendment.

If you want to go online and make public posts calling your mother in law filthy names or making untrue accusations, she's covered under local defamation of character laws.

Any website found to not remove such posts when requested prior to taking things to court can be held as an accessory in court.


By BuckinBottoms on 5/11/2009 3:32:03 PM , Rating: 2
Seems the same to me. There are instances when people of power belittle people they know little about and it destroys the other person. Apparently what you are saying is it only matters if you personally know the person.


RE: totally and completely agree
By FITCamaro on 5/11/2009 3:32:25 PM , Rating: 2
You can call your mother in law all the things you want in a public forum. It is not slander. Making false accusations though is.


By foolsgambit11 on 5/11/2009 4:00:31 PM , Rating: 2
Right. And of course, most of these restrictions that have been mentioned so far are not criminal issues. They're civil issues. I like to think of the issue as, "you're welcome to say whatever you want, but be prepared to deal with the consequences - including reimbursing people for material damages your speech causes." It's the old standard 'your freedoms end where mine begin' thing.


RE: totally and completely agree
By Regected on 5/11/2009 2:36:40 PM , Rating: 2
The question is not whether cyber-bullying is right or wrong. Most everyone here agrees that it is wrong. The question about this bill is if the federal government has the right to put someone in jail because they said something online that someone else took the wrong way. Heaven forbid a protestant mother gets on the net if this thing passes; half the country would be in jail.

Moderators of message boards should be the police of such things. If the board you are posting on allows things to be posted that you don't like, then don't go to that web page. It's not like you have to pass by that website on the way home from church every Sunday.


By marvdmartian on 5/11/2009 4:12:42 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, I guess Dennis Leary and Don Rickles were law breakers all along, eh??

I could come out and say this is the dumbest idea for a law, EVER......but then I'd be listening for the sound of my door being kicked down by the censorship gestapo!!


RE: totally and completely agree
By forum fall on 5/12/2009 9:08:25 AM , Rating: 1
Go kill yourself you flaming fucking pussy ass bitch, the world will be better off without your stupid cunt squirting bloody piss all over the place. again, shit yourself, eat your shit, and then suffocate on your shit, then slit your own throat while suffocating on your bloody shit, you fucking dick faced queer eyed cunt.


she needs a dirty sanchez
By corduroygt on 5/11/2009 12:52:52 PM , Rating: 5
to come to her senses and read the first amendment.




RE: she needs a dirty sanchez
By Shmak on 5/11/2009 1:00:21 PM , Rating: 3
Look out man, you could be arrested.


RE: she needs a dirty sanchez
By tshen83 on 5/11/2009 1:06:14 PM , Rating: 2
The only thing that trumps the first amendment is national security, even though that is a murky issue.

I highly recommend this movie:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1073241/

Superb storyline and acting.


RE: she needs a dirty sanchez
By Kefner on 5/11/2009 1:53:04 PM , Rating: 2
Nothing trumps the first amendment, otherwise, why have it?


RE: she needs a dirty sanchez
By Alexstarfire on 5/11/2009 2:42:06 PM , Rating: 1
There are very limited circumstances in which the first amendment does not apply. Pretty much any instance in which speaking would directly cause people serious injury or death, except perhaps on a battlefield, comes to mind.

Other than that I whole heartedly agree. Damn nanny state is getting on my last nerve. Need to go by me a private island in the middle of no where so I can do whatever the hell I want finally. If people get that worked up over words then that is their problem. I've had some pretty ridiculous things said to me, over the net and in person, and I could care less. Unless I feel that I'm going to be physically injured I don't give a shit what people say. Might as well get mad at people honking their horns and shouting insults to other cars in traffic. It amounts to much of the same.


RE: she needs a dirty sanchez
By MatthiasF on 5/11/2009 3:00:46 PM , Rating: 3
The First Amendment only applies to the state. Meaning the government can't write laws prohibiting criticism from it's citizens.

What you say to other citizens is not free by any means. You can be held for slander, libel, battery, disturbing the peace, etc.

The common anarchist's take on our constitution found online is far from reality.


RE: she needs a dirty sanchez
By BailoutBenny on 5/11/2009 3:40:54 PM , Rating: 2
The first amendment prohibits Congress from passing any law that restricts any type of speech. The Constitution is a contract between states for mutual defense and arbitration as well as to standardize a commodity based currency that is recognized in interstate trade. The thought of regulating speech was absurd since a government capable of that was totalitarian and voided the notion of state sovereignity. Regulation of speech, if it were to happen, must happen at either the state level or by personal abdication through contract, such as when an employee agrees to acceptable speech terms laid out by the employer.


RE: she needs a dirty sanchez
By Alexstarfire on 5/12/2009 7:26:23 AM , Rating: 2
Those really kind of run along with what I just said. It's not going to cause serious injury or death, but if the intent is to harm another person then it's not covered. And with disturbing of the peace it's not about what you say, but how loud the sound is.

But w/e, I think we all get the idea now.


RE: she needs a dirty sanchez
By AlexWade on 5/11/2009 3:30:44 PM , Rating: 4
Your post reminded me of a famous quote by Benjamin Franklin: "Any society that would give up a little bit of liberty to gain a little bit of security with deserve neither and lose both." (Or something similar)

As has already been stated, nothing tops the 1st Amendment and by extension the Constitution. If it does, then the whole foundation of the American law is null and void. That means no national security because there is no nation.


RE: she needs a dirty sanchez
By Bender 123 on 5/11/2009 1:19:44 PM , Rating: 3
(sarcasm\)

Your comment suxors. Little candy @$$ piece of $***. Go F*** your uncle...

(sarcasm\off)


RE: she needs a dirty sanchez
By FITCamaro on 5/11/2009 2:27:51 PM , Rating: 2
I would but my d**k is in your moms mouth.

Why don't you go kill yourself?

Am I being sarcastic......

:)


California Reps
By Runiteshark on 5/11/2009 1:08:37 PM , Rating: 4
I find it pretty funny that people like Nancy Pelosi, This Sanchez idiot and everyone else have been elected into office. Do these people really represent what the Californians are like?

Are there seriously no better candidates there? Do they really think that they (Pelosi etc) are doing a good job?




RE: California Reps
By FITCamaro on 5/11/09, Rating: 0
RE: California Reps
By foolsgambit11 on 5/11/2009 4:05:31 PM , Rating: 2
Fortunately for the rest of us, California actually gives more money to the federal government than they get from it. So for the rest of us, Hooray, California!


RE: California Reps
By Shmak on 5/11/2009 5:46:44 PM , Rating: 2
That's because more people in the highest income tax brackets live in California than the average state. I don't think "give" is the appropriate word either.


RE: California Reps
By fatedtodie on 5/12/2009 10:06:11 AM , Rating: 2
So how do you expect the military to be paid? Opt in?
Or would you rather not have any national security? How about the FBI? should they get paid? or work for free?

Oh maybe we should have some sort of federal program to get money (let's call it taxes) from individuals (let's call them taxpayers) so that federal programs that affect everyone are available. I think that sounds like a good plan... if only there was also some sort of document in place that says that we will get this money (like the consititution).

Or maybe lets just live on wishes and dreams and hope that nobody wants any American dead...

I like the real world, care to join it some time?


RE: California Reps
By BuckinBottoms on 5/12/2009 10:17:01 AM , Rating: 3
Tirade much?

Switch to decaf.


RE: California Reps
By fatedtodie on 5/12/2009 11:57:29 AM , Rating: 1
Funny how your comment is perfectly on my point. An insult that you should be criminally accountable for. =)

I will now use famous quotes about what you just did.
"I love it when someone insults me. That means that I don't have to be nice anymore." - Billy Idol

"Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." - Jean-Jacques Rousseau

So Endeth the lesson.


RE: California Reps
By BuckinBottoms on 5/16/2009 1:52:59 PM , Rating: 2
It was a suggestion not an insult.

Which I find funny since you undoubtedly had those quotes saved for just the occasion but was incapable of steering the conversation in the correct direction to use your troll bashing and have therefore become the troll yourself. So now you have used your secret weapon without proper context and simply wasted a good punchline.

Lesson failed.


Our tax dollars at wurk.
By Fnoob on 5/11/2009 1:18:25 PM , Rating: 1
So help me jeebus, is it any wonder why nothing gets done in Congress? With all of the REAL work that needs to be done, there are high paid morons up there wasting time on THIS?

Apparenly we need to send a dozen or so copies of the Constitution to these idiots rather than tea-bags.




RE: Our tax dollars at wurk.
By BaronMatrix on 5/11/09, Rating: -1
RE: Our tax dollars at wurk.
By FITCamaro on 5/11/2009 2:29:06 PM , Rating: 2
Are you f*cking serious?


RE: Our tax dollars at wurk.
By 91TTZ on 5/11/2009 2:49:19 PM , Rating: 2
I sure hope not.


RE: Our tax dollars at wurk.
By BuckinBottoms on 5/11/2009 2:54:17 PM , Rating: 3
lol Baron has been Internet abused all over the web.


RE: Our tax dollars at wurk.
By LRonaldHubbs on 5/11/2009 3:54:36 PM , Rating: 2
While true, it can also be said that he has generally deserved it.


RE: Our tax dollars at wurk.
By LRonaldHubbs on 5/11/2009 3:52:59 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Too many people are swollen a-holes that need to be locked up for some of their Internet antics.

Ha! The infamous BM shows his face. Seems to me that you speak from experience, bud.

BTW, did you ever buy that 4x4 rig that you touted so heavily? Still a megatasker, right? LMAO.


By General Disturbance on 5/11/2009 4:41:46 PM , Rating: 2
LMAOROFL I'm so glad you brought this up.

How's your AMD shares you bought at $40 BM?


RE: Our tax dollars at wurk.
By Cappadocious on 5/11/2009 3:29:55 PM , Rating: 2
Not that I am in favor of this stupid legislation but you also have to consider the district she is representing. If the girl who killed herself was from the area she represents this would definitely be a hot topic for her constituents.


Two sides of the coin...
By dflynchimp on 5/11/2009 1:04:14 PM , Rating: 1
People who can legitamately flame:

Knows the facts
Argues/flames logically
Has a good reason to flame (or a legitamate target)

People who deserve to shut their trap:

Clueless keyboard warriors
Pirks

so bring it, b****es, DOWNRATE ME. I'm emotionally prepared.




RE: Two sides of the coin...
By DASQ on 5/11/2009 2:11:39 PM , Rating: 1
But not legally.


RE: Two sides of the coin...
By 67STANG on 5/12/2009 2:10:01 AM , Rating: 2
This is Phase 1 of BO's nationalized health care-- by putting more people in prison.


RE: Two sides of the coin...
By xti on 5/11/2009 2:13:13 PM , Rating: 1
you forgot:

cuz they feel like it


RE: Two sides of the coin...
By Pirks on 5/11/2009 2:43:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
People who deserve to shut their trap: Clueless keyboard warriors Pirks
You forgot about chicko. I smell double standards.


RE: Two sides of the coin...
By nixoofta on 5/11/2009 2:54:39 PM , Rating: 2
Actually,..thats a little schmutz on your upper lip...:P


RE: Two sides of the coin...
By Pirks on 5/11/2009 3:25:56 PM , Rating: 2
I wish this schmutz could fix chicko's problems


While I still can....
By theplaidfad on 5/11/2009 1:00:07 PM , Rating: 5
You must have been born on a highway, because that's where most accidents happen, If you were twice as smart, you would still be stupid, and you will never be half the man that your mother is.




Flamers?
By jebo on 5/11/2009 1:36:52 PM , Rating: 5
What did the homosexuals ever do to this Sanchez person?

OH...THOSE flamers....nm




Bad news
By SavagePotato on 5/11/2009 1:45:06 PM , Rating: 1
Bad news for world of warcraft then, no more 9 million subscribers, 80% of them are going to be in jail.

Maybe they can still play from prison and keep racking up the sentences.




RE: Bad news
By SlipDizzy on 5/11/2009 2:06:16 PM , Rating: 2
I'd be more worried about BNet or the Xbox Live network. You might also want to toss 4chan in that bunch as well... /b/ will never be the same.

Do we have enough prison space that can be customized to house 12 year olds?


RE: Bad news
By OblivionMage on 5/11/2009 3:59:22 PM , Rating: 2
Its not actually going to go through and be in effect... lol


Love...
By cscpianoman on 5/11/2009 4:36:00 PM , Rating: 2
I would love to see how they enforce this.




RE: Love...
By Jeff7181 on 5/11/2009 4:47:13 PM , Rating: 3
I'm going to wear a heart monitor and put the display right next to my computer and video tape them both so I have proof when someone on the Internet causes me distress.


By 91TTZ on 5/11/2009 1:24:31 PM , Rating: 2
While a bill like this may have been written with noble intentions, the sad reality is that it'll probably be abused by small town prosecutors looking to make a name for themselves. In the end we'd be better off without these bills.

Remember the Megan's Law bill? Now prosecutors are charging 14 year olds as sex offenders for texting nude pictures to each other. Even the mother who pushed for Megan's Law publicl stated that this is NOT what the law is for. Yet prosecutors are convicting people under the law anyway.

The death of this girl is sad but very rare. It attracts headlines but isn't something that happens everyday and doesn't warrant a special law. In reality, what this law will be used for is convicting people of crimes that are completely unrelated to the types of actions used against this girl. It'll be yet another tool used by the government to control and punish the population for actions unrelated to the purpose of the bill.




By foolsgambit11 on 5/11/2009 4:09:30 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. No matter what Sanchez says she intends to be the use of this bill, the fact is that the law only cares what's in the bill. There are criminal codes which can only be used with other crimes - like hate crimes, for instance. They should lift the verbiage from those codes and include it here, if that's what Sanchez wants.


Oh well.
By FITCamaro on 5/11/2009 2:24:00 PM , Rating: 2
Guess a bunch of us are going to jail.




RE: Oh well.
By BadAcid on 5/11/2009 5:11:08 PM , Rating: 2
Unless we're from Canada....


A bill I propose
By Randomblame on 5/11/2009 11:35:59 PM , Rating: 2
Here's the bill I propose: Sign in no new bills for a year. Seriously.

Oh I ran across this old bill that no one seems to remember which seems to make this new one illegal:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

That was signed into law in september 1787 so maybe it is a little outdated...




RE: A bill I propose
By JonnyDough on 5/12/2009 3:44:40 AM , Rating: 2
Nope it isn't outdated! OMG, did you know you have a right to assemble too?!!!

You just can't hire kids to do it, although that never stopped politically backed corporations from doing it! :-P


By borowki2 on 5/11/2009 2:28:05 PM , Rating: 3
I wish some kid out there would commit suicide as a result of being rejected after asking a girl for a date online. Maybe Congress will then pass a law banning cyber-rejection. As I'm sure many DT readers know, being denied can cause substantial emotional distress. The government also has a compelling interest in ensuring equal access to the dating scene.




The Government can have my keyboard...
By DRMichael on 5/11/2009 3:02:12 PM , Rating: 1
...when they pry it from my cold dead hands!




By Ticholo on 5/11/2009 4:28:48 PM , Rating: 2
"The shroud of the dark side has fallen. Begun, the Flame War has."


Name That Party!
By kyleb2112 on 5/12/2009 6:46:39 AM , Rating: 3
I'll just assume that since A) this is a negative story, and B) no party affiliation is listed that C) Linda Sanchez is a Democrat.




Hypocrisy...
By nct on 5/12/2009 10:27:53 AM , Rating: 3
So Wanda Sykes, at a dinner attended by the President and high-ranking government officials, is allowed to call Rush Limbaugh a treasonous terrorist who she hopes has kidney failure...but if I email her and say she's an ignorant b!tch and her comments were asinine, I go to jail?




Are you kidding?
By desertrat200 on 5/12/2009 12:31:04 PM , Rating: 3
Rep. Sanchez???
I suppose no one considered that this can be used to suppress anyone who criticizes Obama and the Dems?
Jeez.




By giantpandaman2 on 5/11/2009 1:12:22 PM , Rating: 2
Waste of taxpayer money, because it will be challenged and struck down after spending tens of millions of dollars running it through the law system.

One person dies from cyber-bullying and they want to make a law to stop it? Might as well outlaw mirrors on car visors, because I'm sure they kill more people than cyber-bullying does.




I just don't give a $#!+
By LMSKILLS on 5/11/2009 1:16:08 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with the dirty sanchez. But seriously, if you can't handle being flamed, don't give people a reason to flame you. This b!+ch is just asking for it, no actually she's begging to be flamed and knowing how fast things change on the internet this may be short lived, but...
"Linda Sanchez, you're a dumb dirty B!+CH that needs a vanilla windmill, dirty sanchez, as well as the entire miriad of other dirty $exual obscenities all at the same time!!"
There, come and arrest me b!+ch.




what were the odds?
By Gingivitis on 5/11/2009 2:56:00 PM , Rating: 2
Really? are you serious? Im tired of reading all these stupid bills and laws that are aimed at making society get along. People are still going to use racial slurs, people are still going to bully other people, stupid people on the internet are going to be flammed and called stupid people. Its just the cycle of life. either get with the program or just stop period. Don't come around trying to tame everyone with stupid quirky laws like this. Im still going to call john doe on the internet a piece of $H!T if i want to.




This Will Not Go Well
By Quiescent on 5/11/2009 3:01:31 PM , Rating: 2
If this bill passes, bad things will happen for sure.

The thing is, is that the internet is a different place than the world outside of it. There are rules already defined with the usage of it. The internet is it's own continent. The internet is it's own place. And it shouldn't have laws outside of it bogging down how we live to be on the internet.

I know it sounds like I'm nuts, but the god awful truth is, is that the internet is how it is, and if you mess with how we do things on the internet, then bad things will happen.

Let's just take a glance at just how bad things could get. Do you realize how many people are affiliated with "4chan" or "Anonymous"? Do you realize that this bill passing would cause just this group alone to be infuriated and ready to fight for their right to beat up someone online for being a retard or something to that affect?

The one thing that this bill shows is that parenting is obviously no longer the way it used to be. That girl died because she took what was done and said to her seriously. She shouldn't have. She broke the number one rule of being on the internet: DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET SERIOUSLY! For heavens sake, she shouldn't have been using a computer if she were to be this way about the internet. IF it happens to be someone she knew in person, then that is a fine line and obviously should be treated as such as being an online/offline problem.

But the internet... is a place for trolls, is a place for those who need to blow off steam, is a place for those who would like to secretly speak what they wish about the people they have to deal with around them. The internet has it's own rules, and it's going to turn nasty if those rules happen to be bashed by some stupid law because of some idiot taking the internet seriously.

The internet IS sirius bidnes, but if you take it that seriously, then you're just retarded.

And that's how it is on here. Plain. And. Simple.




pathetic
By Sindas on 5/11/2009 3:32:12 PM , Rating: 2
This bill is pathetic. Real life bullying is not illegal, and most teachers don't even care. But internet bullying, well, that's just awful ain't it? WALK AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER. Flaming is not something to get so flipped out about. Real life bullying is impossible to get away from, but a computer you can walk away from.

Youtube already screwed over themselves by this copyright crap, and now this BS? More and more of our beloved *free* internet is being covered in rules, making it less and less enjoyable. Why don't they just make us all wear white jumpsuits with numbers on them. I got dibs on the name 182echo9




Name the 14 others !!##**@...
By BoGardFury on 5/11/2009 5:43:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
o date, the bill has the support of Sanchez and 14 other members of Congress,


Name those member of congress? This site has gone down hill with rollover pop-up trash and vague stories.




differences
By stilltrying on 5/11/2009 10:03:57 PM , Rating: 2
The law is the constitutuion, the rest are statutes, acts, codes, and regulations that have the color of law, big difference. All of which require your consent to be governed. Its all about jurisdiction and when you give yourself up to their jurisdiction is what counts. There is plenty of great information out there if you look hard enough. Dont impede on ones right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.




Why bother?
By mindless1 on 5/11/2009 10:51:54 PM , Rating: 2
Sanchez, you are stupid. You are a loser who has shown you are unfit to hold your position by actually pretending this is worth wasting anyone's time over before it fails.

This is what is wrong with the world today. Idiots having positions they are simply too incompetent to hold, we have made a grave mistake thinking that managing to merely attain a college degree which signifies memorizing things, then winning popularity contests, somehow signifies a competency to make decisions that effect other people.

We need a new form of justice where we can collectively vote people out of office immediately if they blunder so badly that it is obvious they are unfit and worse, taking crucial time away from others who seek to do useful and important things instead.

What a joke, or possibly I mean mockery, of our justice system, that we allow such foolish nonsense to be heard instead of putting people in their place when they can't grasp fundamental rights, the ideals the country is founded upon and upholds, etc.

Get her out of office, this is simply ridiculous.




Another example of the "Mommy State"
By Durrr on 5/11/2009 11:07:46 PM , Rating: 2
Gee, I guess you can't just settle differences with a good fight anymore huh. I got an idea, why don't we all gather around a fire and sing some kum ba yah.




HEY!
By JonnyDough on 5/12/2009 3:42:15 AM , Rating: 2
FU Linda Sanchez!

You will NOT TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO WRITE FREE SPEECH!

Oh, and live and prosper...you filthy animal!




Burn in space hell
By forum fall on 5/12/2009 8:37:17 AM , Rating: 2
Fucking cunts that wrote this bill should kill themselves.




jeez
By NeoConned08 on 5/12/2009 8:48:20 AM , Rating: 2
Why do I get the feeling that lawsuits pertaining to cyber *bullying* are going to clog up our courts just as the silly drug *crimes* do?

It's the internet. If you are so warped that you kill yourself over what some nameless, faceless IM/Forum message says, we should probably be happy the gene pool has been cleared of the excess baggage.




I am the disagree
By friction2009 on 5/12/2009 9:59:26 AM , Rating: 2
Attach a name and address to every internet post and let the problem fix itself.

On a serious note the pussification of our world is a rather large annoyance to myself. What you consider deep emotional trauma, I call experience. On a semi-related note, my little brother can no longer bring peanut butter sandwiches for lunch anymore because there are a few children allergic. Do not tamper with natural selection. If an internet post pushes somebody to cause harm to themselves so be it, I would rather them freak out at their home computer than a Starbuck's line.




Unbelievable...
By roostitup on 5/12/2009 2:27:45 PM , Rating: 2
Since when has bullying been illegal. It's legal to say whatever you want to a person however you want to say to a person on the streets and in real life; it's free speech, but when it's done over it internet it has the possibility to be illegal?! School bullies, bar bullies & many other types of bullies constantly beat down others, it's just the way they are, but it shouldn't be illegal. I believe that we are slapping a bandaid over the REAL ISSUE here of increased emotional problems in young individuals and even some adults. It is a reflection of our current society that has an increased likelyhood of being affected by bullies and their behavior. I really hope congress see through this invasion of free speech!




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