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Joe Biden was plugging upcoming EV initiatives on the road at an Indiana battery maker.  (Source: Darron Cummings Associated Press)
Biden hopes to add 300,000 more $7,500 credits

U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, speaking to workers at a battery assembly plant in Greenfield, Indiana, plugged U.S. Sen. Carl Levin's (D-Michigan) plan to expand tax credits for EV buyers and make them immediate.

Under the new proposal the cap on the number of credits per electric vehicle manufacturer would be bumped from 200,000 to 500,000.  Additionally, people would receive the credit as a direct discount, rather than having to wait to get the money back when they filed their yearly tax return.

The Vice President describes, "Just like the Cash for Clunkers program. You won't have to wait."

The measure is backed by the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers -- an alliance between Detroit's Big Three, Toyota Motor Corp. and eight others.  In a comment to The Detroit News, they state, "[The government] can play a critical role in developing the electric infrastructure, supporting R&D for advanced batteries and providing consumer incentives."

Along with those tax incentives to buyers, Vice President Biden was also promoting the Obama administration's budget, which will be submitted to Congress next week.  That budget contains $8B USD for investing in advanced energy technology, including electric vehicles.  Over the last couple years the Vice President has been a big proponent of investment in battery systems and electrified vehicles.

Of that, $590M USD will be applied directly to vehicle research.  That includes $200M USD to help up to 30 communities expand their electric vehicle infrastructure, by adding support for chargers, etc.

Biden's visit follows one by President Obama to green small businesses in Wisconsin, plugging alternative energy research.

The Obama administration's budget will like meet with opposition at the Republican-controlled house, but the Vice President was optimistic, remarking, "We're going to reshape what Americans drive. In turn we're going to reshape America itself." 

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just what we need
By dgingeri on 1/27/2011 6:15:12 PM , Rating: 5
yeah, just what we need, another $2.2 billion wasted money by the federal government.

Electric cars won't work. They didn't work back in the early 1900's and they won't work now. (Bet you didn't know once year in the 1900's, I think it was 1906, electric cars outsold all other types of cars combined.) They don't have the capacity or the range needed to be a practical car.

When Top Gear tested out the Tesla roadster, it broke down twice and ran out of juice before they could complete a lap. Tesla brought another one over, and the Stig started a lap, but it broke down again. So it never got fully tested or had a time trial.

Fuel cell and hybrid technology are far, far better. Yet, Obama axed all the special programs for them. This extra bunch of spending is not even close to be worthwhile.

RE: just what we need
By HrilL on 1/27/2011 6:26:34 PM , Rating: 5
This is to be expected from our leaders that want to support the Chinese economy more than ours.

How about the government spots spending money they don't have already! NO more new spending period. Just stop already or cut programs we don't need if they think we should spend money on something else. But until we're out of debt we should just stop spending period. If its not critical then the program should be cut. All we need is Education, Social security, and Defense Anything else is just a waste of money. Giving poor people money and pay their health bills doesn't solve any problems it creates them.

Also why should my tax dollars go to buying someone else a car? If they want a car then they should pay for it like I am. If you can't afford the car you want then you need to get one you can afford.


RE: just what we need
By PresidentThomasJefferson on 1/27/2011 9:58:54 PM , Rating: 2
Here's the economics data you asked about earlier by economist/bank CEO multimillionaire entrepeneur Warren Mosler - -and read the PDF short economics paper by bank CEO/economist Warren Mosler "7 Deadly Innocent Frauds of Economic Policy" with empirical evidence for tax cuts as well as gov spending(without tax increases nor borrowing)
htttp:// 10/06/7DIF.pdf

...Here's a quick primer on Modern Monetary economics(must read!)

Good daily analysis of finacial/economics data great for investing:

1) (Warren Mosler, bank CEO/economist)

2) -economist/MBA -also his daily analysis w/ empirical evidence/data at
-and data showing how inflation is caused by supply shocks in energy/oil (like OPEC's oil embargo & 400% rise in oil prices in the 1970s) at


1a) (download the "7 Deadly Innocent Frauds of Economic Policy" as it should be mandatory reading for any economics/MBA class)


1b) he's also running for Senate at & can be one of the few knowledgeable economists/businessman that can do good in the senate

2a) --more data on country comparisons on conservative fiscal austerity is wrong

2b) -Bill Mitchell explains why Wall St Journal & Alessina/Mankiw are wrong using flawed data from 3rd world countries who don't have their own non-convertible currencies(thus totally unlike the US,Japan,Singapore system
(Japan is at about 200%+ deficit debt & still 0% interest rates, 0% inflation, & ~4% unemployment & about 3% GDP for the past 10 yrs, Singapore is 117%+ deficit debt & still 0% interest rates, 3% unemployment, & 4% GDP vs. the US at 80%+ deficit debt, 0% to 3% interest rates,9.7% unemployment, 1% to 2% GDP)

See More

RE: just what we need
By PresidentThomasJefferson on 1/27/11, Rating: 0
RE: just what we need
By Kurz on 1/28/2011 10:25:37 AM , Rating: 2
False inflation is a TAX!!!

RE: just what we need
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 1/28/2011 7:18:31 AM , Rating: 2
I thought we weren't allowed to post advertisements on DT?

RE: just what we need
By bobny1 on 1/29/2011 10:37:31 AM , Rating: 2
Washington's plan is to fully capitalize China, bankrupt their government and take over the country. That will guive them an additional 1+ billion suckers to tax and bury in credit card debt...LOL

RE: just what we need
By KorruptioN on 1/27/2011 8:07:02 PM , Rating: 1
I wasn't aware that a test on Top Gear (don't get me wrong, it's easily the best automotive program around) was representative of the market segment as a whole...

RE: just what we need
By sleepeeg3 on 1/27/2011 9:13:50 PM , Rating: 5
It's $10,250,000,000.00 they are proposing on wasting. Biden can stuff it! I am tired of subsidizing overpaid union employees and inefficient technologies. What makes even less sense is Toyota's support of this - their hybrids no longer qualify for these subsidies, even though the Prius is by far a better option than the Volt:

Of course Biden and Obama are extending these handouts, because unions helped them win their elected positions. Unions helped buy California's governor election, which Brown is paying back by slashing all non-union state employees wages. Their corrupt entanglement with politics is one of the reasons behind our crushing debt.

What is amusing is that immediately after Obama's SOTU address pledging fiscal responsibility, the CBO announces another record $1.5 trillion deficit they are adding to our public debt. That is just one year! Keep on digging, liberals.

RE: just what we need
By TSS on 1/28/2011 8:52:52 AM , Rating: 2
Afther that last link you really should post as well and point out that total government spending (as there's more government then just obama) is already a whopping $6.7 trillion, and still going up.

To give this any meaningfull comparison, that's about $1,000,000,000,000 MORE then the entire GDP of China.

And that $1,5 trillion deficit...well... total government spending is $6,7 trillion while total government revenue is $4.46 trillion, so the TOTAL government deficit is actually $2.24 trillion. That's already more then the federal revenue is pulling in!

And yes, the GDP might be $14.5 trillion. Now. I watched it drop $2.5 trillion in 3 months during the financial crisis which marked the first time your debt to GDP was over 100% (i looked right after obama's stimulus came into effect to see what kind of effect it had).

At $14 trillion debt, it wont be long before you hit and stay above that 100%. And unlike GDP, there's no way in hell that'll drop $2.5 trillion in 3 months. At this point it's more likely it accumelates another $2.5 trillion in 3 months.

Oh wait did i say $14 trillion? that's just national debt. Debt guarranteed by Tax payers. Who also have other debts. So the total debt of the USA is $55,6 trillion, or, nearing 400% of GDP.

Oh and really, the time of speaking with your vote is over. Go play this game:

Never mind the entire game, except the way how you win. You invest heavily in the democrats, you make them win, make all sorts of unpopular decisions, which will make people swing republican, so you invest in them before the next elections so they do what you want as well. At the end of the game the vote will swing 100% to the other side, while your building more and more plants that convert people into oil, and there's not a protestor in sight. That's exactly what's happening today, only instead of making people into oil people are made into slaves.

I really wonder when this whole facade ends so we can start making stuff better again - no matter how hard it is. For no matter how imposing the above numbers are, wether you hold one or one trillion dollars in your hand, their both worth about a unicorn. This is one matrix i'd really like to unplug from.

RE: just what we need
By Nutzo on 1/28/2011 11:15:39 AM , Rating: 2
Brown was bought and paid for by the unions here in California, so he will do everything he can to protect them.
Every proposal Brown has made has been designed to either protect the unions or minimize any damage to them.

The left no longer has enough tax dollars to fund all their constituents, so the first ones that will be thrown under the bus are the group that can’t afford the large campaign contributions, i.e. the poor, school kids, etc. Unions have the most money, so they will be the last to be affected.

RE: just what we need
By Ammohunt on 1/28/2011 2:35:57 PM , Rating: 2
Californians are slowly realizing that there are 49 other states they could live in where the cost of living is way less.

RE: just what we need
By rcc on 1/28/2011 5:45:09 PM , Rating: 2
True, but the weather sucks in most of them. : )

RE: just what we need
By Breathless on 1/28/2011 4:35:30 PM , Rating: 2
and yet the interesting thing is that as soon as the next republican gets in office, they will point the finger and say "see what these republicans did!"

RE: just what we need
By Noya on 1/27/11, Rating: 0
RE: just what we need
By dgingeri on 1/28/2011 8:28:26 AM , Rating: 2
well, your opinion of the show notwithstanding, I wasn't referring to the methods of their tests. I was commenting on how a car they were supposed to test on a wildly popular tv show ended up constantly breaking down. Even the replacement car broke down. Both times with battery problems. In the case of the Tesla roadster, there are several thousand individual batteries in the battery pack, and one dying creates a cascade across the whole pack. The Nissan Leaf has less than 1/4 of the number of batteries, but that's still a lot of batteries and a lot of points of failure.

While Nissan says you'll only have to change the $6000 battery pack every 5 years, the history of electric cars, and lithium ion batteries, says differently.

RE: just what we need
By Flunk on 1/28/2011 8:56:27 AM , Rating: 2
"Clarkson is an ogreish buffoon"

Why do you think people watch the show?

RE: just what we need
By Targon on 1/28/2011 7:47:00 AM , Rating: 4
Electric cars will work in cities where you can have millions of people who live within a 20 mile radius. For that sort of situation, a 100 mile range on one charge is perfectly acceptable for daily use.

The real issue is that the power grid itself also needs to be upgraded to handle the demand of plugin electric, and right now, the big cities can have problems during very hot months where everyone is running their air conditioners 24 hours a day.

RE: just what we need
By Nutzo on 1/28/2011 11:04:01 AM , Rating: 4
People say we just need better batteries and electric cars will be viable.

The real problem is that the electrical grid would never be able to handle a large number of plug-in cars.

Even if there was a break through in batteries that would give you a 500 mile range per charge, you would NEVER be able to charge the car overnight. The typical house electrical service cannot deliver that much power.

The Nissan Leaf (100 mile range) needs 7 hours to charge on a 40 amp, 240 volt charging station. That's about the same power required by a central air conditioning unit (don’t try charging you car, running your air and several appliances all at the same time).

Now multiply this by 5 for a car with a 500 mile range, 35 hours to charge?
Want to drop that down to 12 hours? You would need a 240 volt, 120 amp circuit, which is a problem since most homes only have a 100 amp (or less) service for the entire house.

Of course what happens when you have 2 cars to charge? Or your 2 teenagers also have electric cars?

RE: just what we need
By JediJeb on 1/28/2011 3:09:09 PM , Rating: 2
This is correct, the average consumer only thinks in volts and maybe watts when it comes to electricity and electronics. Amps is the key when talking about electric vehicles and charging them. Amps is also where the danger lies in electricity.

RE: just what we need
By Flunk on 1/28/2011 8:55:13 AM , Rating: 3
Just because something didn't work 100 years ago doesn't mean it won't work now, we've had 100 years to improve the technology. Your anecdote about the Tesla roadster only proves that Tesla roadsters aren't reliable which doesn't help prove your point at all.

I don't agree with government subsidies for unprofitable businesses (corn ethanol, electric cars, etc.), but don't try to justify your opinion with flawed logic.

RE: just what we need
By Hiawa23 on 1/28/2011 9:06:31 AM , Rating: 2
I could be wrong, but this seems like a waste. Those Electric vehicles for one are way too expensive for the masses, why is Biden even pushing? Most of us own gas powered vehicles, never going to own an electric vehicle, & in these bad economic times where alot of middle class families are struggling just to get by month after month, these cars are off the table. Find ways to get fuel prices down, I would rather they spend tax payer dollars on that,as that would give us all relief on fuel, utility & store/food prices.

RE: just what we need
By Nutzo on 1/28/2011 11:07:33 AM , Rating: 2
Instead they are putting more restictions on domestic oil drilling, and want to eliminate the tax breaks that encorage new oil exploration.

Expect $4.00+ gas prices soon. Remember, gas prices where $2.00 when Obummer took office.

RE: just what we need
By topkill on 1/31/2011 12:07:16 AM , Rating: 2
There you go genius. We have less than 5% of the worlds oil reserves, even when you include ANWAR and offshore drilling sites on the US coastline, and you think that is going to solve our problems? We use 20% of the worlds oil production. Is that higher math hard for you?

Yeah, let's give Exxon more money because the $456BILLION in revenue they had last year and the $45BILLION in profit...along with their ZERO $$ in taxes last year weren't enough. Give them some more money and everything will be so much better.

Were the $4 gas prices in 2008 Obama's fault too?

You have the intelligence of a baboon. You need to STFU and stop embarrassing your parents. What species were they anyway? Maybe a lemur and sloth? Which one was the lemur?

RE: just what we need
By tfk11 on 1/30/2011 5:13:34 PM , Rating: 2
Is this a tech site? Political BS aside electric cars satisfy the range requirements of a lot of people. Mechanically an electric car is vastly less complex that a car build around a gasoline engine so all you "won't work" talk is nonsense.

Fuel cell and hybrid technology are far, far better./quote>

How so? You'd have to be retarded to buy a fuel cell car anytime within the next what... 10 years. And hybrids bring all the complexity and expense to an otherwise clean and simple electric.

RE: just what we need
By topkill on 1/30/11, Rating: 0
Ah, again...
By lifewatcher on 1/27/2011 5:32:06 PM , Rating: 5
this unfortunate guy believes that America wants to be reshaped...

Let me make sure I get this right - we all pay taxes, which in turn are spent to lower the price of the shiny new toys for the rich first adopters, who want to buy a Model S as a second vehicle?
Perhaps it all makes sense in the long run, but I can't help feeling miserable for not being able to take advantage of my own taxes.

RE: Ah, again...
By Dr of crap on 1/28/2011 8:37:48 AM , Rating: 3
Thank you for that voice of reason!

I'm so tired of those that say without the early adopters new inovations wouldn't make it.

If it was really something good it would make it on it's own, not with govt supplied cash to help it along!

My health care cost could use a bit of cash back from the govt - how about fixing that problem first!!!

RE: Ah, again...
By kattanna on 1/28/2011 11:01:41 AM , Rating: 2
exactly. PURE EV's will primarily be bought by those who already have a gas car and can afford to buy a 2nd car. why should we subsidize them?

RE: Ah, again...
By ClownPuncher on 1/28/2011 3:31:15 PM , Rating: 1
I think it's pretty simple; Biden is a putz. Even many of my *quite* liberal friends agree.

Let's see here...
By Ben on 1/27/2011 6:20:21 PM , Rating: 2
Step 1 : Give away "government" money to fund special interests
Step 2 : When funds dry up, raise taxes on the middle class and the rich
Step 3 : Repeat

WTF is going on?

At some point I imagine some liberal socialist genius will suggest that we simply send our paychecks to uncle same so they can decide what best to spend it on.

RE: Let's see here...
By tanjali on 1/28/2011 8:33:11 AM , Rating: 3
I think you guys are bunch of republicans afraid of change that your leaders 0.1 of riches can lose some percentage of their “hard earned” wealth. And you like obedient puppies wave with your tails when master say something. No one ever complained about how most money is lost on non productive economy like services, banks, Insurances, non productive “Health” care, Wall Street, war makers and other leaches that live on people that produce "tangible economy" that everybody lives of. I am all pro electric, even with subsidized money, because its cleaner, including nuclear and thermo as sources, as ideal mean of energy as possible, overnights a billions of kilowatts get wasted, charge it then, just hate that battery "politic" of being expensive not reliable and so long to charge so little to go on. Just don’t tell me there are no better battery techs somewhere hidden. And yes make some more ugly small looking electric cars so people get distasted by it, more dirty politics. I mean most powerful vehicles have electric motor moving them even with diesel its more efficient.

RE: Let's see here...
By Dorkyman on 1/28/2011 11:20:09 AM , Rating: 3
Okay, I think I get your point. All us "Republican puppies" are just afraid of change, right?

And as for not complaining about all the money lost in the machinery of finance, allow me to claim that capitalism, for all its faults, has one sterling virtue: it rewards efficiency and crushes inefficiency. Unlike government, if a business is not efficient (read: profitable) then it will dry up and fade away.

Meanwhile Buffoons #1 and #2 in Washington are just clueless. #1 is book-smart and clueless, #2 appears to be just clueless.

RE: Let's see here...
By FITCamaro on 1/28/2011 12:35:58 PM , Rating: 2
I think you're a f*cking idiot who can't express a clear thought. I have no idea what the f*ck you're saying other than you think electric cars are good.

But I'll say this. Change is not always good. If something needs to change, it needs to change for the better, not the worse. Will America ever have to change how it gets its energy? Of course. But to try to force it to before both it and the technologies to which you are trying to change to are ready is not only expensive but also foolish. And spending trillions of dollars we don't have to do so doesn't change that fact.

Some day electric vehicles might be a good idea. Today they are not. Switching to bio-fuels is a far better plan. But they too are not ready. I'd be all for trying to fund research to figure out a way to mass produce bio-diesel or a synthetic gasoline which costs the same or less than gasoline. Unfortunately the powers that be have all but mandated that electric vehicles are the way they're going to go, the feasibility of them be damned. The cost of them be damned. The fact that it does absolutely nothing for our economy be damned.

On one hand they're saying we have to be less reliant on foreign sources of energy, but at the same time they're pushing us to being more dependent. Please explain to us how shutting down oil drilling and exploration makes us less dependent. No the goal is to make us more dependent so the price goes up so electrics have a better ability to compete.

And your link is meaningless. Yes in certain uses, electrics are the better way to go due to their max torque production at low rpms. That does not make them the better way to go for everything. Also those trucks are designed like the Volt. They rely on a diesel powered generator to supply the electricity they need. The only difference is they can't run only on batteries ever.

Instead, a 3650-horsepower (2723-kilowatt) diesel engine generates power for two electric motors in the rear axles. So it's more like a huge electric railroad locomotive than a conventional truck. Older giant trucks used a DC electrical drive system but this one uses AC, which is more efficient.

Someone please tell him to shut up
By AEvangel on 1/27/2011 5:26:09 PM , Rating: 2
They have to do something to make those car's affordable and cost effective for the public.

You know instead of all these silly tax incentives for electric cars, why not give them for people who use public transit....oh wait I know because then we wont be supporting the failed Auto Unions.

By wookie1 on 1/27/2011 10:15:54 PM , Rating: 2
You're kidding, right? Public transportation is already so heavily subsidized, riders pay something like 10% of the cost, and you want to subsidize them more while barking about EV subsidies?

By JediJeb on 1/28/2011 3:42:55 PM , Rating: 2
They have to do something to make those car's affordable and cost effective for the public.

Make union management a non paid position and stop collecting dues from workers so the auto companies can cut how much they have to pay workers. If the unions are really serious about wanting to help their workers the first thing they would do is stop collecting dues and volunteer their time, doubt you will ever see that happen though. Funny how Toyota doesn't have unions and yet their workers here in the US make just as much money as the union workers in the other auto plants. There are tons of ways to cut costs and make cars more affordable, just nobody wants to do it.

When I was a kid in the early 70s my father was making $8,000 a year and he bought a $3,000 Plymouth that was just one step below a luxury Cadillac or Lincoln. He was a mechanic that worked on school buses and was maybe considered lower middle class at the time, if that. How many middle class workers now days make more than twice what a car of that class costs today? Why has the ratio of what the average worker makes versus what the average car costs changed so much since then? The average salary now I believe is in the $45k/year range, what cars are there in the $17k range today?(that is the same ratio of salary to car price as back then)

Do away with the subsidies and when the electric vehicles hit the sub $20k price range they will take off, until then let the rich play with them and waste their money, not ours.

Oh Boy
By struzzin20 on 1/27/2011 9:27:12 PM , Rating: 2
Here we go again people DO NOT WANT THESE CRAP ELECTRIC CARS !
They cant sell mass volumes of the Volt & Tesla so they have to push these crazy credits. The only thing Electric that works as a vehicle and is reliable is a an EZGO or Yamaha Golf Cart.

RE: Oh Boy
By FITCamaro on 1/28/2011 8:34:09 AM , Rating: 2
Yes buy EZGOs!

My 401K needs a boost and all my company matching is in the form of company stock. ;)

This is disgusting
By topkill on 1/30/2011 11:29:17 PM , Rating: 1
It is a good thing that breathing is an involuntary bodily function or most of you F'ing morons would die of asphyxiation within minutes.

Reading posts on this site is disturbingly like reading them on Yahoo. It would seem that a site dedicated to technology would attract people with enough IQ to at least fog a mirror, but Jesus F'ing people are scary!

Do you morons wet yourself constantly?

"Electric cars didn't work 100 years ago so they won't work now". Wow, really? Really? REALLY??? I guess jet planes didn't work 100 years ago so they don't exist either. You flying on a winged unicorn there buddy?

You're the same group of FuckWits that thought cellphones would never make it back in 1993. "They're too expensive and only work in a few places". Did you ever stop to think the technology might get better and cheaper? That it might spread as it did so?

Fuel cells are more practical than electric cars??? ROFLMFAO!!! Do you know how many tens of billions of dollars Bush pumped into fuel cells because his oil buddies begged for the free handouts? H2 comes 95% from natural you know who owns natural gas in the US? The oil companies you idiots! Where are fuel cells today after all that money? They are jokes.

Do you have any idea how much money we spend on oil subsidies? 1% of the GDP of the entire planet earth! We're talking TRILLIONS of dollars every year. And you stupid bastards want to whine about a couple billion for EVs. I guess you LIKE bending over to take it up the A$$ from the arab oil countries? Yeah, that sounds like most of you idiots. And you let them throw sand, ARAB SAND, in the vaseline before they bend you over! ROFLMFAO!!!!

Quit drinking the sour milk from your mother's dried up breast. Time to ween yourselves.

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