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Betavoltaic Battery  (Source: Next Energy News)
Rumors of a betavoltaic battery able to power laptops for 30-years shot down

It is said that when something is too good to be true, it often is.  In the case of a new type of notebook battery touted to last decades, new technology promises to uproot all conventional energy storage, but just how practical is it?

Internet publication Next Energy News ran a story earlier this week claiming a betavoltaic batteries are in development, and will run tomorrow's notebooks 30 years without replacement or recharging.

The betavoltaic battery works similarly to solar cells. However, instead of generating electricity when photons strike a substrate, betavolatic batteries generate power from using high-energy electrons generated by the decay of a radioisotope, in this case reported to be tritium.

As the radioisotope decays, beta particles are emitted that strike an interface layer between two layers of material generating a useful electrical current. The power in the battery will decrease proportional to the half-life of the radioisotope. While the battery uses radioactive materials, it would produce no radiation and when exhausted would be an inert mass easily disposed of.

Rupert Goodwins of ZDNET UK says in short that the entire betavoltaic battery story is simply off the mark. Goodwins says in his column, “One [problem] is that the sort of atomic structures that generate power when bombarded with high energy electrons are the sort that tend to fall apart when bombarded with high energy electrons.”

Goodwins also says that while eventually the tritium battery will turn into a safe lump of stuff, if you break the battery open during its life all the radioactive, presumably toxic, materials will spill out. The Next Energy News story says, “The reaction is non-thermal which means laptops and other small devices like mobile phones will run much cooler than with traditional lithium-ion power batteries.”

This particular claim is totally refuted by Goodwins stating, “[Betavoltaic batteries] don’t have a great conversion efficiency. Around 25 percent is the best you can get -- which is pretty good, but leaves 75 percent sloshing around as heat. That means a 25 Watt battery will get plenty warm.”

Goodwins goes on to liken the heat output from a tritium battery to that of a 60-watt light bulb. Certainly more heat than any person interested in usable genitalia wants sitting on their laps.

Another big issue Goodwins says is that betavoltaic batteries just don’t work that well, they can only output about 5-watts per kilo, which means they would need to be 72 times heavier than the battery in your notebook right now.

As good as betavoltaic batteries sounded in the beginning, fuel cells are still more likely to replace batteries in our notebooks.



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naive?
By omnicronx on 10/4/2007 3:26:19 PM , Rating: 2
Was anyone actually naive enough to think this would actually last 30 years? I mean if this did have the potential they are saying, why stop at laptops, why not start with something a bit larger with more surface area?




RE: naive?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/4/2007 3:28:12 PM , Rating: 3
Well, if you read the article on ZDNet it puts it all into perspective. While feasible, its highly impractical and would never work as advertised.


RE: naive?
By Alexstarfire on 10/4/2007 3:57:34 PM , Rating: 4
It's more like it was misinterpreted. Sounds to me like it originally went something like this. "We created a battery that emits electricity for 30 years and when depleted of electricity is completely non-toxic and easily disposed of." And just turned into the story we now have.

Even if it did generate electricity for 30 years I doubt it would have enough power for most of that time to light even a 40 watt bulb, going off a 50 watt battery. The fact that it uses radioactive material is kind of a moot point. Generally you do consider worst case senarioes for your products, but you don't anticipate most of them behaving like your worst case. If it doesn't emit radiation when it's being used and doesn't emit any when it's done I don't see a problem with it. It's not like it's the only battery that will do something bad when it's broken during it's lifetime. Provided that the battery would be properly protected from breaking from a height of several feet, perhaps 10 or so to be safe.

The fact that it weighs so much is a big enough turn off as it is anyways. If you only looked at it's weight to watt ratio it'd never be put to use in any situation.

I knew it was too good to be true. As I posted when the story first came out, how did we jump from less than 2 days of continual use to 30 years. I could see going from 2 days to maybe a week, but anything more than that is just the biggest breakthrough ever or total BS. Guess we found out what that is.


RE: naive?
By mars777 on 10/8/2007 7:03:55 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
If you only looked at it's weight to watt ratio it'd never be put to use in any situation.


Pure bullshit! I Want one, and i want it badly!

Put 1 kg of battery to power my access point on the roof - for 20 years :D. And the other one on the church tower where we can have the main access point!


RE: naive?
By kileil on 10/4/2007 3:52:26 PM , Rating: 2
A better question is: Was this company actually naive enough to think it could post this "news" without thousands of people calling BS?

"You know how you's guy's batteries last 4 hours. Yeah, well ours last 30 years...*Breathes on nails and brushes on shoulder*"


RE: naive?
By BladeVenom on 10/4/2007 4:56:58 PM , Rating: 2
At least it's more believable than all those perpetual motion and free energy stories that keep coming up in the news.


RE: naive?
By Shining Arcanine on 10/4/2007 7:47:57 PM , Rating: 2
This battery is based on a nuclear power source. In theory, it could last much longer than 30 years if it was properly designed, although I am not sure all of the materials necessary to do that have been invented.


RE: naive?
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 10/4/2007 9:10:56 PM , Rating: 3
The source of the electrons has a half life -- since you're essentially just letting it decay in front of a substrate of some kind.


RE: naive?
By Polynikes on 10/4/2007 10:20:15 PM , Rating: 2
Seriously, that would be like a car company saying they found a way to make a Lamborghini-like performing car have zero emissions out of the blue.


RE: naive?
By lukasbradley on 10/4/2007 10:53:18 PM , Rating: 5
RE: naive?
By mars777 on 10/8/2007 7:15:29 AM , Rating: 2
Oops :D


This isn't so outlandish, even if it's impractical
By OxBow on 10/4/2007 4:47:08 PM , Rating: 2
Just based on the merits in the story, I don't think that this is so far out of the realm of possibility. First of all, Tritium is a safe isotope. It's not like someone could stack a bunch of these together into a dirty bomb. Cracking one of these open and pouring it onto your nads won't even result in a mild warm sensation from the radiation.

As far as being able to power a laptop, given how SSD's, low power processors and ultrathin, low power displays are coming into their own now, the idea of a 10 watt laptop isn't so far fetched. That'd make a 6 kilo laptop (12 pounds), not a bad tradoff if I didn't need to recharge it, even if it only lasted for 8 years. Proper heatsinks and insulation could easily deal with the heat waste.

I don't doubt that the debunkers math is spot on and that the practical hurdles to overcoming this are quite steep. However, I also wouldn't discount the idea as implausible just because it doesn't fit within our present concepts of what would be usefull.

There's a heck of lot of applications for such technology, even if it's not used in a laptop. Given that this is merely an article about an article regarding the potential cited in a press release about a concept, let's at least give it the due it deserves as just that, a concept worth looking into and thinking about.




By Ringold on 10/4/2007 5:38:38 PM , Rating: 2
I think the applications are much broader than brick laptops; 10 watts is a pretty big assumption for any kind of performance, though not impossible. At the same time, however, could probably find different battery types that do a good enough job at much lower weight.

The first application I think of is hand held radios and satellite phones. From a general aviation perspective.. lets say your alternator goes down and, come on, do you really remember what flashing red means from a light gun? Speaking light guns, holy cow it's dark outside, what's the vector to the nearest airport anyway? Having a battery such as these in the handy, reliable hand-held radio in your flight bag could be a huge benefit. Similar deal with Emergency Locator Beacon/Transponder or a satellite phone. These are tools that you never think about to double check but when you need them they're critical. Perhaps even emergency lighting of a very dim sort? It wouldn't take much to illuminate with a red LED key instruments -- in a plane or other more complex vehicle.

The military might make use of these, too, for devices they want to keep in the field for quite a while without worrying about swapping batteries.

I'm sure the free market can cook up a thousand other uses for a battery that will outlive the lifecycle of the product it powers, but those come to mind the quickest; applications that aren't necessarily weight sensitive, low power, some times neglected and/or needed to operate in extreme-ish situations.

Laptops though? I'm not quite sold.


By Oregonian2 on 10/4/2007 5:41:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
First of all, Tritium is a safe isotope. It's not like someone could stack a bunch of these together into a dirty bomb. Cracking one of these open and pouring it onto your nads won't even result in a mild warm sensation from the radiation.


Stuff used to be used for watch dials (pre-digitals which they still make, the kind where "clockwise" means something) but I recall they stopped making them due to health safety reasons. I used to love'm (my current Seiko watch has a glowing background, but only lasts for an hour or two brightly -- could have used some Tritium to last all night).

Are they really fully politically-correct safe?


By Chillin1248 (blog) on 10/4/2007 6:39:54 PM , Rating: 2
Well in the military if a Tritium sights break they are considered HAZMAT, so go figure...

-------
Chillin


By Rugar on 10/5/2007 9:34:03 AM , Rating: 2
Tritium is relatively safe to work around since it is an extremely low powered beta emitter. The problem comes in when it penetrates the skin (usually by ingestion). Once through the protective layer of your skin, even a relatively low powered emitter like tritium can be very, very unhealthy. That being said, tritium is considered very safe to work with over prolonged periods. I worked on a RadRaT (Radiation Reaction Team) when I was in the military and we were never once called out for a "tritium incident". It may be considered hazardous, but then so is diesel fuel.

While I was still on active duty, I heard all the war stories about tritium dials, sights, etc. and how they were being removed because people were getting cancer. I'm sure that the toxicity has some small part to do with the removal of tritium from military gear but I'm willing to bet it has more to do with cost than anything else. According to this link (http://www.fusion.ucla.edu/ITER-TBM/ITER-TBM2/Trit... ) from Los Alamos, tritium costs somewhere between $84k and $130k.


By Rugar on 10/5/2007 9:35:59 AM , Rating: 2
Sigh for no edit function.... That's $84k - $130k per gram .


By PlasmaBomb on 10/5/2007 5:13:13 PM , Rating: 2
Inhalation is another possible problem if the container broke. Damb that is expensive :D


OH NO!
By FITCamaro on 10/4/2007 3:30:03 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
The betavoltaic battery works similarly to solar cells, which generate electricity from photos.


It's going to eat my photos for energy?

Anyway, an informative story. Luckily for them, their target audience for those who would use these batteries doesn't use their genitals anyway. :)




Beautiful
By Suomynona on 10/4/2007 3:41:29 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Certainly more heat than any person interested in usable genitalia wants sitting on their laps.


Line of the article here, folks.




RE: Beautiful
By iFX on 10/4/2007 3:51:08 PM , Rating: 2
So far there isn't a working product that we can test to actually see what the result may be. That was speculation by another person familiar with the technology but doing an actual test of said technology.

Again - lets wait for an actual product that we can see and test before passing judgement.


They use similar technology to power satellites
By Triring on 10/5/2007 12:16:06 AM , Rating: 2
This technology has been in use for years powering probes for outer solartary planet exploration where solar pannels can not emmit enough power.
It was the power source for the voyager probes that left the solar system a while back.
What is all the fuss all of the sudden.




By Rugar on 10/5/2007 9:45:27 AM , Rating: 2
LOL

Maybe there's a bit of a fuss because Voyager 1 and 2 were powered by Plutonium-238. I'm betting they might have just a bit of trouble getting permitting from the NRC and the IAEA to produce a laptop battery powered by Pu-238 due to the much lower energy in tritium. It would be substantially more difficult to make an RTG that is powered with tritium than with Pu-238. I tend to doubt that this will ever see life as a laptop battery, but I can see it's use in things like long term monitor or emergency beacons where the cost to emplace/replace is great enough to justify an insanely expensive power supply.


Trickle charger ?
By tygrus on 10/8/2007 3:31:04 AM , Rating: 2
Sounds more like a trickle charger because:
1) You can't turn it off;
2) Too big/heavy/hot if sized for full load.

If 5w/Kg then a 1Kg, 5w could double battery life. Even 1Kg is 2-3x normal laptop battery. Could get 8hrs of use everyday without mains (15w avg with 80whr std. battery).

What happens to laptop in confined space with additional 20w (5w design) or 80w (20w design) when idle (minus usefull work which usually ends up as heat when active).

In millitary use, what happens when shot or damaged ? Explosion big enough to damage power supply may also have already killed operator before risk of radiation?
Hot target more easily found by IR detection.




RE: Trickle charger ?
By mars777 on 10/8/2007 7:27:14 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Hot target more easily found by IR detection.


I know weird people lurk on this site, but you're one of the weirdest.

I'd gladly use a battery like this if it was useful, and couldn't care less about the IR risk.


Tritium?
By geddarkstorm on 10/4/2007 3:55:51 PM , Rating: 2
For those interested, tritium is a radioactive isotope of hydrogen--it is the softest beta emitter there is (it's radiation cannot penetrate skin) and is found throughout nature. However, tritium has a half life of 12.3 years, so I don't think you'd get usable 30 years of life out of a tritium battery; as it'd be able to produce only half its original voltage/amps after 12.3 years. Overall though, as radioactives go, tritium is as safe as you can get; but it also won't make much energy. Combined with those objections stated in the article, I doubt this thing could ever be a usable battery (but breaking it before it's finished would not be that dangerous--far safer than most appliances)




RE: Tritium?
By Motley on 10/4/2007 4:27:27 PM , Rating: 1
Assuming the battery is capable of delivering 7 times the power you need, then yes, it could last 30 years.

Perhaps not good as a laptop battery, but what about cars? I'd love a car that you have to refill every 30 years. Or even if it got slower after 12.3 years would be fine too.


This is really neat...
By iFX on 10/4/2007 3:29:26 PM , Rating: 2
It sounds like people on both sides of the isle are making generalizations about a product that doesn't yet exist. Once we have one in our hands a real indepth test can be done.

I would love to see this technology developed for notebook use.




They ARE warm!
By biohzrd on 10/4/2007 4:20:43 PM , Rating: 2
Ahem. When I worked around "things" that radiated, there was another "thing" that contained a LOT of tritium, and guess what--it was warm to the touch. Not hot by any means, but definitely warm. Of course, this tritium was compressed to about 3000psi, so that might be a bit different from this battery.




Besides
By Rotkiv on 10/4/2007 4:27:16 PM , Rating: 2
who wants a laptop for 30 years anyway.




By DeepBlue1975 on 10/4/2007 4:27:23 PM , Rating: 2
The second title has it right, though.




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