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Print 97 comment(s) - last by crystal clear.. on Feb 13 at 6:29 AM

Blu-ray gets yet another supporter

Earlier today, DailyTech reported that Netflix took the bold step to go to a Blu-ray exclusive model for online high definition rentals. Netflix cited Blu-ray's emergence as the clear front-runner in the race and its wish to provide the "best experience for subscribers."

It now looks as though the Blu-ray camp is getting yet another supporter in its fight against HD DVD. Best Buy today announced that it will give preferential treatment to Blu-ray movies and hardware when it comes to floor space and positioning in its stores.

“Consumers have told us that they want us to help lead the way. We’ve listened to our customers, and we are responding. Best Buy will recommend Blu-ray as the preferred format,” said Best Buy President and CFO Brian Dunn. “Our decision to shine a spotlight on Blu-ray Disc players and other Blu-ray products is a strong signal to our customers that we believe Blu-ray is the right format choice for them.”

Like Netflix, Best Buy says that Blu-ray is the clear choice for consumers, so it will refocus its resources to promote Sony's increasingly-powerful brainchild.

"We believe our move to feature Blu-ray should help consumers feel confident in their hi-def content choices,” said Best Buy Home Solutions Senior VP Mike Vitelli. “We are excited about helping customers find the right mix of products and services to make the next generation of high definition entertainment technology come alive for them. We believe that Blu-ray is the right solution for consumers.”

Best Buy says that it will continue to carry HD DVD hardware and titles, but customers may have to fight through heavy Blu-ray defenses to reach the goods. On top of that, Best Buy sales reps will do their best to make sure that you know that Blu-ray is the clear direction for the future.



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Just what I need
By Bioniccrackmonk on 2/11/2008 5:30:00 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Best Buy sales reps will do their best to make sure that you know that Blu-ray is the clear direction for the future.


Some one who makes just above minimum wage to tell me the what the "clear direction for the future", technology wise. No thanks, I will stick to my own research.

*This is not a rip on all Best Buy employees, but anyone who frequents there can tell you some of them don't know their arse from their elbows.




RE: Just what I need
By deeznuts on 2/11/2008 5:39:45 PM , Rating: 3
Well, what is your research telling you? Exactly what the average Best Buy associate is being told to tell you, I assume.


RE: Just what I need
By TomZ on 2/11/2008 5:43:12 PM , Rating: 3
In the end, the "research" is kind of irrelevant. The "format war" is essentially a popularity contest, since all parties have been saying for a long time that they don't want to see two hi-def formats in the marketplace.

Therefore, it seems like BD won over HD-DVD because of the PS3 strategy, not because of any technical superiority or benefit to the customer. In theory each customer evaluates both options and makes a choice, but in reality for most people the decisions are not made with so much information.


RE: Just what I need
By oab on 2/11/08, Rating: -1
RE: Just what I need
By Bioniccrackmonk on 2/11/2008 9:58:29 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Well, Warner jumped ship because Sony paid them 500m to do so..... (as seen on DT back in January), and then blamed high gas prices.


I don't remember reading that on here, you have a link to this?


RE: Just what I need
By vhx on 2/11/2008 10:09:55 PM , Rating: 3
That was just FUD spread by HD-DVD websites after Warner went exclusive, pay no attention to him or the article. Warner even came out and said they received no payoff... multiple times. Also there has been no proof of said transaction. 500M is a lot to cover up.


RE: Just what I need
By IntelGirl on 2/12/08, Rating: -1
RE: Just what I need
By DingieM on 2/12/2008 3:40:41 AM , Rating: 1
I don't know if they payed that much, but I'm certain Sony dumped a lot of cash to Warner.
Before that, Warner was on the brink to "defect" to HD-DVD, at least the probability was very high.

In any case, thats how the big companies work. If people don't see that, well they should slap themselves and maybe they will wake up.

But its good that the market goes to one standard format. No more confusion. There is no denial needed; at the end of this year HD-DVD will be almost gone.
C'mon MS, bring out your Blu-Ray add-on!


RE: Just what I need
By IntelGirl on 2/12/08, Rating: -1
RE: Just what I need
By Chernobyl68 on 2/11/2008 5:44:52 PM , Rating: 3
you know, just last week when I was in best buy buying my 8th entertainment weekly subscription, I was saying to the CFO, "I sure wish Best Buy would Lead The Way in regards to my future entertainment decisions, because I sure hate thinking for myself!"

gimme a break.


RE: Just what I need
By TomZ on 2/11/2008 5:56:50 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly, BB made this decision so they could focus their floor/shelf space on a single HD format, so they could reduce returns associated with customer purchase mistakes, and so they could benefit from the higher costs/margins of BD player hardware.

To benefit the customer? Please!


RE: Just what I need
By Hydrofirex on 2/11/2008 6:37:35 PM , Rating: 2
Well, the lower the cost of doing business the more a company can theoretically charge you less. Less churn would help. Yeah, Best Buy isn't too good at doing this I know... hence the margins they take.

CompUSA was just as bad. I've been in my local Comp for 2 months now digging for deals with them going out of business and even at 30-40% online stores are usually a little cheaper still. This seems to be the case a little more every year in terms of selection. I know Amazon has done wonders in this way for books.

Beyond that, a decision needed to be made and it's better if it's done now instead of later. Economies of scale should dictate media and buners/players should be cheaper with the 'combined' demand from both formats.

Should being the operative word.
25 Gigs FTW!

HfX


RE: Just what I need
By geddarkstorm on 2/11/2008 8:50:30 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, talk about your cynicism. Don't be so unrealistic. A business has to go with what is selling best if it wishes to make a profit, or the consumer can just go elsewhere (note, the alternative is to cater to a nitch market, like with vinyl records). Considering BD has been outselling HD-DVD for months on the disc side, and players recently, the consumer has chosen. You may favor HD-DVD personally, but the majority doesn't, and a smart business (that is general and not a nitch) will try to serve up products to the majority. Seriously, Best Buy is just one retailer; if HD-DVD was doing that well, people would just skip Best Buy and its BD and go purchase their hi-def elsewhere (something you can still do, or just wade through their displays), but apparently that is not happening.


RE: Just what I need
By KamiXkaze on 2/11/2008 8:57:49 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed format wars tend to hurt most companies bottom line. Since there seems to be a clear winner. For BB it is a easy decision to support BD.

KxK


RE: Just what I need
By someguy123 on 2/11/2008 5:42:09 PM , Rating: 2
i think its safe to say 80% of people working there know just the bare minimum (aka names, what wire (hdmi etc) you need to buy, cost of warranty). Every time I ask for something specific they read me stuff off the sign (as though I couldn't read something directly in front of me) or they'd direct me to the one person in the store that knew about electronics so I'd have to wait for him to be done helping other people before I could get my questions in. Ever since then the only time I go to best buy is when i know exactly what I want beforehand.


RE: Just what I need
By othercents on 2/11/2008 5:51:29 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
i think its safe to say 80% of people working there know just the bare minimum

However I suspect that 80% of the people who shop there know less than the 80% of the people working there. This is why there are support organizations like Geeksquad or home install companies that I personally wouldn't ever pay for, but enough people need them to make them profitable.

David


RE: Just what I need
By someguy123 on 2/11/2008 5:55:14 PM , Rating: 2
thats true. I just wish that people who worked there worked there because they wanted to be around what they were interested in, and not just because there was either no other option or they wanted a relatively easy job.


RE: Just what I need
By geddarkstorm on 2/11/2008 8:53:13 PM , Rating: 4
If the pay was higher and the bar for hiring far more stringent, then that would probably be the case. But that's just how retail is.


RE: Just what I need
By KamiXkaze on 2/11/2008 11:20:42 PM , Rating: 4
Agreed most retailers tend to higher bodies anyone that can read a script. However BB has hired some smart ones from time to time but they're of the minority.

KxK


RE: Just what I need
By enlil242 on 2/11/2008 6:02:42 PM , Rating: 3
Best Buy has been giving preferential treatment to BluRay for quite some time. I've seen associates use the word BluRay like "Kleenix" when pushing TV sales to consumers... "...um, with this tv you can watch high definition TV and watch BluRay movies..."

Plus, they never stocked ebough A-List HD-DVD titles. Seems like they were always out of anything I was interested in.


RE: Just what I need
By omnicronx on 2/11/2008 6:08:06 PM , Rating: 3
I asked a BB representative what the difference between HD-DVD and BD was, his answer: Twice the resolution, Twice the quality. BB has always given Sony preferential treatment. What better to accompany your new $2500 TV than $2000 in Sony accessories ;) BB makes a killing off of the Sony name, there was just never really incentive for them to promote HD-DVD.


RE: Just what I need
By melgross on 2/11/2008 6:24:51 PM , Rating: 2
I suppose when talking about the cheapest players from both sides he was right. 1080p does have twice the resolution of 1080i, in a sense.


RE: Just what I need
By jamdunc on 2/11/2008 6:39:48 PM , Rating: 2
Do you work for Best Buy perchance?

1080i and 1080p have the same resolution. They just display it on the screen differently.

1080p - All 1080 lines @ 60 frames per second

1080i - Alternate lines (odd and even) @ 120 frames per second to give you a full screen image at 60 frames per second

n.b. Can someone please check my maths for 1080i though, I'm a tad drunk as my football team just lost 2-0 and I had to drown my sorrows :(


RE: Just what I need
By melgross on 2/11/08, Rating: 0
RE: Just what I need
By tayhimself on 2/11/2008 7:51:53 PM , Rating: 2
Do you have a clue per chance? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_scan

Also where are all the HD-DVD Microsoft lovers? Now that BR has won the trolls have returned to their caves. BTW, I own neither and don't plan to for several months yet.


RE: Just what I need
By omnicronx on 2/11/2008 8:58:51 PM , Rating: 2
I guess you missed this part,
quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p#Storage format
specifically,
quote:
1080p-encoded titles have been released on HD DVD and also Blu-ray Disc. The first generation of U.S./Japanese HD DVD players could only output the 1080p content via 1080i signal and required 3:2 pulldown deinterlacing in a display to reconstruct the original 1080p signal (see above for an explanation of why this does not lead to any difference between 1080i and 1080p in many cases).
and the explination


RE: Just what I need
By griffynz on 2/11/2008 10:14:25 PM , Rating: 2
Here I am (Bloody troll?). I love HD-DVD and will continue to support them to the bitter end. As I live in New Zealand I use Amazon and local HD shops, also Jb Hifi and EzyDVD online. Both Blu-ray and HD-DVD are tiny here so online is easiest way to get media at moment.


RE: Just what I need
By jamdunc on 2/12/2008 2:37:09 AM , Rating: 2
Yes I do have a clue and talking about resolution per frame is still not the way to say that 1080p has double the resolution than 1080i. Using abstract arguments like that, I could say 1080i was better because it outputs at 120 frames per second which is double 1080p. See what I did there? :)

They both have a resolution of 1920x1080. 1080p isn't double 1080i, they are the same resolution, just different ways of putting the information on the TV.


RE: Just what I need
By tayhimself on 2/12/2008 10:25:34 AM , Rating: 3
sigh..


RE: Just what I need
By omnicronx on 2/11/2008 6:41:07 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I suppose when talking about the cheapest players from both sides he was right. 1080p does have twice the resolution of 1080i, in a sense.
No, it doesn't, thats a big misconception that Bestbuy continues to use as a sales pitch.
The source is 1080p regardless of what player you use. A 1080i player lets the TV do the deinterlacing, in which all the 1080p data is there, it just needs to be put back the frames in the right order. This is done with little or no quality loss, on most 1080p sets. Best part is, many BD players out there reinterlace the source to 1080i/60 and then deinterlace to 1080p/30 to output to your HDTV(if its not 24hz). This is probably done for compatibility for converting to other resolutions, but to me it proves there is little conceivable difference between the two.

Researching the broadcast 1080i and HD-Player 1080i will show the many differences between the two.


RE: Just what I need
By melgross on 2/11/2008 7:53:36 PM , Rating: 2
The cheapest HD-DVD players are 1080i. That is the output. The information is on the disk, but is not output as such. It is a difference.


RE: Just what I need
By omnicronx on 2/11/2008 8:42:29 PM , Rating: 2
This argument comes up every time on DT, so i am not going to try to hammer it into your head. Go look it up yourself, and you will see that the only difference is the way the information is transported to the TV. The final product will look almost exactly the same. I personally can not tell the difference between my 1080i HD-DVD player and my PS3 with the same movie.


RE: Just what I need
By Belard on 2/11/2008 8:17:40 PM , Rating: 2
er... no. 1080p and 1080i have the same 1080 lines of information. Do you know what the difference between P & I mean? P = Progessive, I = Interlace. As explained by someone just now.

There is NO flickering with P... while you may get that with I TVs... but the human eye doesn't see it. This is WHY PC CRT monitors cost more than TVs... they don't display in interlace mode - which would give people headaches (Also one of the downfalls of the Amiga for a serious computer).

While some have already insulted you, saying this is what BB is taught. I would disagree with this. Any sales staff from BB or other store that says such statements is because they DON'T know what they are talking about... not store policy. Its inexperince and or stupidty of the sales person.

I remember when I first started workin in a PC store (I was hard core amiga) and the customer asked for something about Serial ports that *I* didn't know. I said "Does it make a difference?" - he walked out. I asked the PC tech what the diffeernce was, it was easily explained and made perfect sense and never made that mistake.

But if a sales person gave me that sort of answer, I'd walk away too ;)


RE: Just what I need
By walk2k on 2/11/2008 6:27:16 PM , Rating: 2
Netflix has also dropped HD-DVD.

Seriously can we just call this one already?

Or we still hoping for that late 4th quarter touchdown, onsides kick recovery, and another touchdown, with 1:02 left?


RE: Just what I need
By marsbound2024 on 2/11/2008 7:11:01 PM , Rating: 2
Well I myself am a Best Buy employee (for now) and I do my best to inform my co-workers of what I am reading here on Anandtech and Dailytech as well as other websites around the web. It has been somewhat obvious over the past month or two that Blu-ray has the upper hand and may indeed win the format war. So when customers come up to me with their questions about HD-DVD or Blu-ray I try to be as honest and as informative as I can with what I have read. I essentially tell them that while one can't be 100% sure yet, it seems that Blu-ray is starting to get a lot more support lately from consumers as well as big names in multimedia/entertainment and that if one wanted to place his or her bets, they probably need to take a serious look at Blu-ray.


RE: Just what I need
By Bioniccrackmonk on 2/11/2008 10:07:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Well I myself am a Best Buy employee (for now) and I do my best to inform my co-workers of what I am reading here on Anandtech and Dailytech as well as other websites around the web. It has been somewhat obvious over the past month or two that Blu-ray has the upper hand and may indeed win the format war. So when customers come up to me with their questions about HD-DVD or Blu-ray I try to be as honest and as informative as I can with what I have read. I essentially tell them that while one can't be 100% sure yet, it seems that Blu-ray is starting to get a lot more support lately from consumers as well as big names in multimedia/entertainment and that if one wanted to place his or her bets, they probably need to take a serious look at Blu-ray.


If everything you say is true, then you would fit in the "not all employees" category. Kudos for helping your friends to understand.


RE: Just what I need
By marsbound2024 on 2/11/2008 11:05:50 PM , Rating: 2
Thank you for your reply. Yes it is true. I am aware that there are probably plenty of employees that unfortunately don't share such information with the customer and only care about the sale. Well I'm not out to change how all employees act with customers (try to help those in my store, though). I hope to eventually get into the REAL IT field besides being in Geek Squad which isn't real IT. Anyways, I am on a tangent.


RE: Just what I need
By z3r0c00l12 on 2/11/2008 10:33:41 PM , Rating: 2
As a Best Buy Employee, I say to you, not all of us are that way (Some are...), If you'd fall on me, we could have a rather endless discussion on the Format War, since I, myself support Blu-Ray, I find it a lot more attractive. I, on my part have been promoting Blu-Ray as the Future Technology for some time now, I believe I might have influenced about 50-60 HD-DVD fans into Blu-Ray. I Should be getting my 0.001% of Blu-Ray shares...

z3r0c00l12


RE: Just what I need
By Samus on 2/11/2008 11:40:21 PM , Rating: 2
Netflix and Best Buy both say it's the "Clear choice for consumers"?

No, it's the clear choice for STUDIO's. The only reason the studio's are killing HD-DVD is because it doesn't have region coding. Ohh noes!


RE: Just what I need
By BansheeX on 2/12/2008 10:17:53 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The only reason the studio's are killing HD-DVD is because it doesn't have region coding.


Then why did many studios release discs for them at all? Your whiny conspiracies make no sense. What does make sense is Toshiba having no third party manufacturers and HD-DVD consistently getting walloped in sales despite its lower price of entry. What was the weekly score again in 2007? 52-0 or something like that? Something to do with the PS3 pushing a niche format in people's homes by the millions as a bonus...


The harsh realities
By crystal clear on 2/12/2008 2:49:47 AM , Rating: 1
Focus on the economy-just everbody from the content providers to retail outlets all are to be HIT hard by poor sales.

In such bad times every sale let it be any format by retailers will be very hard to get complete.

"Consumers must take more drastic steps to stabilize their finances in the midst of high fuel and food prices, stagnant incomes, and record debt,"



Merrill Lynch said on Monday the United States had entered its first full blown recession in 16 years.

But worsening conditions in 2008 could scupper sales of new players, and movies, even if only one format survived.

NEW YORK, Feb 8 (Reuters) - The U.S. economy has entered a recession that will be more painful and drawn out than the usual downturn, the director of the Reuters/University of Michigan consumer sentiment survey said on Friday.

Inflation pressures will linger despite the retrenchment in consumer spending, complicating the task of policy-makers, the University's Richard Curtin said in a report, citing data from the Reuters/University of Michigan Surveys of Consumers.

"This is no ordinary recession," he said. "The aftereffects will last much longer than the typical downturn.

"With Americans getting hit with everything from a housing downturn to excess borrowing, things will get worse before they get better.

"Consumers must take more drastic steps to stabilize their finances in the midst of high fuel and food prices, stagnant incomes, and record debt," Curtin said.



http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN0954...

So all these format wars are a waste of Time & Money - money needed to see you through this tough economic crisis-high livimg costs/unemployment/debts/etc




RE: The harsh realities
By wolfwood on 2/12/2008 3:19:48 AM , Rating: 2
I honestly hope the both fail. It was dumb from the start to have two competing formats. DVDs are just fine for the average Joe and it won't be long before the next. Personally, I'll "tough it out" with DVDs until either legit downloading becomes popular or the next unified standard comes out.


RE: The harsh realities
By crystal clear on 2/12/2008 9:14:06 AM , Rating: 2
Yes I respect your opinions but a point to note-

Intelligent people like you respond with their opinions,but
many here with NO educated opinions prefer to vote me down.

They prefer to hide their ignorance & stupidity by simply voting me down.

I pity them.


RE: The harsh realities
By Owls on 2/12/2008 9:44:17 AM , Rating: 2
Crystal Clear, you're a known HD-DVD troll. Stop pretending you aren't.

Crystal Clear - The look and sound of trollish.


RE: The harsh realities
By omnicronx on 2/12/2008 9:56:37 AM , Rating: 1
Did you learn how to spell troll all by yourself? Good job!
Go out an play now, its almost nap time!

I would say more, but i do not have time for a hypocrite like yourself.


RE: The harsh realities
By crystal clear on 2/13/2008 2:46:04 AM , Rating: 2
Crystal clear says-"It is easy to be tolerant when you do not care."

So your comment is tolerated & has recieved the appropraite response !

By the way I own a PS3 & a Toshiba player ! if you did not know.I like them both......


RE: The harsh realities
By omnicronx on 2/12/2008 9:34:18 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Their recession probability indicator looks at a combination of the yield curve and corporate spreads, and is now signaling that there is a 100% probability that a U.S. recession will take place within the next 12 months. David Rosenberg, Merrill’s North American economist, warns, “Clients should be taking recession risks very seriously.” The odds have grown since October, when the indicator was at 75%. Only this past summer did the tool show no threat of recession.
quote:
Our preferred model now implies a risk of U.S. recession of 71 percent in the coming 12 months.


Which one is it this time?
0%?, 75%? 100%? or 71% of their 'preferred' model..

I am not downplaying the fact we are probably headed for a recession, but how much impact it will make is still to be seen. If the probability can change from 0 - 100% in 6 months, I won't believe anything until I see it for myself.


RE: The harsh realities
By crystal clear on 2/12/2008 11:53:50 AM , Rating: 2
"The best thing about the future is that it comes only one day at a time."


I prefer to look at the economic indicators for future trends.

Gold prices are their highest levels, a safe haven in bad times & continue to stay that way.

Oil prices have touched $100 & have fallen lower but still very high,it will not require a crisis to reach the 100 mark.

Energy cost/fuel prices are still very high.

Job losses in Jan 08 were appprox 14000 the first in around 4 years.

Credit markets are equally jittery & becoming difficult to to raise credits.

Sub prime crises will certainly have the spill over effect on the economy.

Playing around with interest rates will not solve the crisis,rather a whole range of economic measures/package is needed.

People are downplaying the looming crises in order not to upset investor confidence & instigate a massive dumping of shares.

It started with announcements of "an economic slow down",then they moved on to say "a recession by 2H 08".
Now something more serious than that.

In short better to be prepared for the worst than behave its business as usual.

(I intentionally make it simple as most of the readers are not economist/financial experts etc)


RE: The harsh realities
By Owls on 2/12/2008 1:38:53 PM , Rating: 2
Please mod Alan Greenspan Jr. up. Obviously, he knows much about the world and the economy by living in the basement copy and pasting from Reuters and CNN.com.


RE: The harsh realities
By crystal clear on 2/13/2008 2:21:11 AM , Rating: 2
Honesty pays, but it don't seem to pay enough to suit a lot of people."


Thats the problem - be honest with yourself & accept the harsh realities & prepare for whats coming.

If not "You" could qualify for this program
Project Lifeline.

"Not many men have both good fortune and good sense."

As for the mod stuff....I dont expect to be modded up or down....I just make my opinions crystal clear.

As for the pasting stuff.....its just to add more content & back up my views.

As for the basement- its there that "the harsh realities" made me realize-

"Money never starts an idea; it is the idea that starts the money."


After that, it was money,money all the way !


RE: The harsh realities
By crystal clear on 2/13/2008 6:29:22 AM , Rating: 2
Hey kid leave me alone - go find somebody of your age to pick a fight .

I dont have time responding to your TRASH .

I did this time-but NO MORE !


RE: The harsh realities
By crystal clear on 2/12/2008 12:03:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
but how much impact it will make is still to be seen.


I have read some serious opinions on this-trying to locate the sources & post it for you.

Its 1900 hrs here !


Uh
By Ammohunt on 2/11/2008 5:41:04 PM , Rating: 2
Wasn't Beta max the clear front runner right before VHS ran all over the format?




RE: Uh
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/11/2008 5:45:15 PM , Rating: 1
It's still a possibility to watch both formats die. That would really suck. Download on demand would give studio's the DRM they want.


RE: Uh
By TerranMagistrate on 2/11/2008 7:49:06 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, that would truly suck. Thankfully not nearly enough consumers have sufficient broadband connections to DL BRD/HD-DVD quality movies. In fact, most people don't.

Physical media in regards to HD movies will be around for a long time.


RE: Uh
By griffynz on 2/11/2008 10:21:03 PM , Rating: 3
I hate downloads, they are so temp.(I remember last time my hard-drive failed) I would rather convert to Blu-ray than have Discs die totally. There is something about having a WALL of movies...


RE: Uh
By TomZ on 2/11/08, Rating: 0
RE: Uh
By AlphaVirus on 2/11/2008 5:48:46 PM , Rating: 2
HDDVD vs BluRay is a totally new war and we live in a different day-in-age. During the Betamax vs VHS, did we have the interwebs to advertise, did we have blogging to discuss whats better or worse, or what about all the free speach everyone has to bash each other.

I am not saying the concept is different but times have changed and its pretty clear that the Blu camp is holding strong and most likely will win.


RE: Uh
By someguy123 on 2/11/2008 5:52:30 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think porn will be enough to back up the losing format this time :)

really though, this time sony has an additional 3.8mil players in the U.S. (9.7 worldwide ps3s according to vgchartz) in addition to their standalone players as well as exclusive releases from the studios that basically dominate hollywood. I think sony really has to drop the ball now for them to lose this "battle".


RE: Uh
By 67STANG on 2/11/2008 6:24:25 PM , Rating: 2
Here's the problem with porn "turning the tide" in the format wars: The format war involves high definition.

I don't know if anyone has ever seen HD porn, but I believe it is a little too "high definition" if you know what I mean... I don't know about you, but I don't want to see rashes, shave burns, zits, etc.

I don't think HD porn will sway this one way or the other.


RE: Uh
By lopri on 2/11/2008 10:12:50 PM , Rating: 2
You know.. I was eating when I read your comment. I'll leave it up to your imagination what happened.


RE: Uh
By melgross on 2/11/2008 6:26:59 PM , Rating: 2
Supposedly, Sony sold 4.9 million PS3's during the holiday season.


RE: Uh
By vhx on 2/11/2008 10:25:59 PM , Rating: 1
The winner of the format won't die. It would, at the very least, be used as a backup medium.


RE: Uh
By nemrod on 2/12/2008 5:32:32 AM , Rating: 1
Don't you mean "the looser"?
And then do you see a lot of hd-dvd burner?
Is it better to have 17 Go / layer or 25 Go /Layer ?


Now What
By baronzemo78 on 2/11/2008 5:41:12 PM , Rating: 2
So how much more will HD-DVD take before throwing in the towel?




RE: Now What
By Belard on 2/11/2008 8:33:28 PM , Rating: 3
We've been wondering.... Toshiba (the ONLY HD-DVD maker, period and always as they made players for RCA, Onkyo, Venturer) will not stop (lose face) until one of the last major studios switches over. Because once Paramount goes, Universal will fold in days or vise-versa.

Now most people here haven't been keeping up with Euro and Japan markets. But HD-DVD is even in more trouble over there. In Japan, people buy RECORDERS more than players... yep, if you thought $400 was expensive for a BR-Player, check out the recordes. In Japan, BR has over 90%.

Today is a bad monday. BB says reduced HD-DVD. NetFlex sais NO-MORE HD-DVD. Trust me, the suits at Universal and Paramount are groaning. Especially Paramount "Why did we take that check for $150 million? Man we look like retards" yep, you guys sure do. Someone finally made Michael Bay look smart for once!

There is STILL dis-informaton on the net about HD-DVDs problems. The fanatics still say everything is FUD, the post positives out of context. They watch the Super Bowl JUST to see the Toshiba HD-DVD AD (in local markets, not national).. geez! Over at a certain Toms~ Site. Someone wrote an article that is VERY inaccurate... it was funny and sad. Because his article makes it look like HD-DVD was slightly behind and that this war was far from over. Hes graphics showing the studios showed almost an even list, but a PROPER chart is a pie-chart. Listing Focus Features is fine... but its tiny compared to FOX. Studio size is important, hence 75% studio support is Blu. The also funny thing he showed on a graphic... is all the brands supporting HD-DVD. He spelled Venturer wrong. RCA hasn't had a Toshiba re-branded player in over a year. He didn't make a bigger point that Samsung while they make combo players, also makes Blu only players. Venturer is out anyways, as their "Cheap" players arn't/can't be cheaper than Toshibas.

HD-DVD is almost out... but its not offical until both Universal and Paramount have gone blu. Toshiba should fold after that... or be pig headed for a while longer.


RE: Now What
By griffynz on 2/11/2008 10:32:10 PM , Rating: 2
Blu-ray won't will until Spec 2.0 is released in a few months, until then even Warner couldn't release their best movies on Blu because its 'a work in progress'. As a HD-DVD supporter I will go Blu when 2 things happen :
1. HD-DVD lose
2. When cheap 2.0 Blu-ray players are out.

I'm sure the US$150,000,000 was worth ever cent, they are still selling so few HD discs on both formats and their contract will be over soon. They probably just wish they could have one like Warner though...


RE: Now What
By BansheeX on 2/12/2008 10:24:09 AM , Rating: 2
You obviously have no idea what 2.0 even adds. The base spec for blu-ray is set and always has been. Making PiP and ethernet mandatory instead of optional hasn't kept and doesn't keep discs from getting released. Nor does it make 1.0 and 1.1 standalones suddenly useless as everything besides bonus features utilizing those two bloat features will still play.


RE: Now What
By griffynz on 2/12/2008 10:04:11 PM , Rating: 2
So why isn't Batman Returns and The Matrix out on Blu-ray? Oh thats right because Warner are waiting for Spec 1.1 !

'Having announced that they have gone Blu-ray exclusive less than a week ago, Warner Bros. has told High-Def Digest that they will soon be releasing profile 1.1 compatible movies. Warner have been slow to release movies on Blu-ray in comparison to HD-DVD because they have been waiting for picture-in-picture commentaries and other such features which have only recently been made available to Blu-ray players via profile 1.1.'

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Warn...


pfft
By omnicronx on 2/11/2008 6:04:45 PM , Rating: 1
Gimme a break, best buy has been in transition to BD for months now. HD-DVD was taken off the shelves at my local BB before the warner announcement. Bestbuy pushes a lot of Sony hardware, it would not surprise me if they had an unofficial deal in place long before this announcement.




RE: pfft
By V2K on 2/11/2008 6:30:42 PM , Rating: 2
they've had equal shelf space at both my local Best Buy's since they started rolling out so don't mark down the experience in your area as indicative of the rest of the US.

In the end why should it matter? If they want to promote Blu-Ray over HD-DVD then they have the right to just like every other retailer. If other retailers want to promote HD-DVD over Blu-Ray then they can as well.

The end result is that the more one format is pushed the sooner this war is over. Except to the fanboys there is little difference in the end. The outcome is a new HD disc standard with advanced features. And the sooner one is picked the faster prices will drop and discs will be produced.

HD-DVD owners will probably join the ranks of every other early adopter technology that didn't take off and you have to learn to live with the perils of buying in early.

It's the risk you take.

Now I'm going to listen to a minidisc.


RE: pfft
By therealnickdanger on 2/11/2008 6:33:16 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, they do have a "deal". It's called making money by giving consumers what they want.


RE: pfft
By melgross on 2/11/2008 6:35:39 PM , Rating: 2
There were plenty of HD-DVD titles in the HD section, along with Blu-Ray last week, in my local Best-Buy here in NYC.


RE: pfft
By Samus on 2/11/2008 11:43:28 PM , Rating: 2
Sony hardware makes them a lot more money than a Nintendo Wii or a Olevia TV. Sony's stuff, like Apple's, is 'easierly' inflated by retailers ;)


By jeromekwok on 2/11/2008 10:30:41 PM , Rating: 2
"We believe our move to feature Blu-ray should help consumers feel confident in their hi-def content choices”

This statement is true for content, but not the hardware. Consumers will find out the expensive bluray hardware invested today cannot play later BD titles without many firmware upgrades, and unable to play profile 2.0 features.




By IntelGirl on 2/12/2008 12:10:37 AM , Rating: 1
The PS3 can.


By zpdixon on 2/12/2008 5:14:05 AM , Rating: 4
You should take this whole Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD debate less religiously. Here, for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywWfmRdOmJ0
Laugh.


By SavagePotato on 2/12/2008 10:20:20 AM , Rating: 1
And thats why the movie industry was crying about slow box office during the release of halo3?

People can and do buy the ps3 primarily to watch movies, I did.


By BansheeX on 2/12/2008 10:07:08 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
This statement is true for content, but not the hardware. Consumers will find out the expensive bluray hardware invested today cannot play later BD titles without many firmware upgrades, and unable to play profile 2.0 features.


1.0 and 1.1 profile players can still play 2.0 discs. You just can't use the PiP bonus feature if the disc has it. Seeing as how most early adopters bought PS3s and no one really cares about PiP anyway except for checklist shoppers like yourself, I'd say your theory is pretty stupid. But don't take my word for it, go to some blu-ray forums and ask them yourself. I guarantee you that these people aren't angry or losing any sleep, but it's nice of you to try and blow it out of proportion to make yourself feel better for choosing something with far more and bigger drawbracks.


Bring out the dead!
By Shadowmaster625 on 2/12/2008 11:46:37 AM , Rating: 1
I love listening to all these braindead morons who actually cheer at having to pay more for the same thing. YAY! I am going to the store to pay $300 for something that could only cost $69 if I wasnt a friggin moron!

That's exactly what blu-ray vs hd-dvd is turning out to be. Blu-ray costs more, doesnt offer more to the average consumer, yet they love it. Why? Because they are told to love it by the people who apparently own their brains. I just wish all you morons would go to jonestown and drink some koolaid before your stupid idiotic braindead consumer choices completely bankrupt this country. Doh, too late, yall already did that, didntcha? Enjoy your blu-ray movies. Decadence in hi-def! It's a shame most of us wont get to have a decent collection of hi-def movies for at least 2 more years, thanks to you idiots driving up prices by picking a junk format. That's like, 2010! Hello?

By 2010 my computer will be able to rip and encode an HD movie in an hour! And my fios will be able to download hi-def movies with just a couple minutes delay for buffering. Sony has killed hi-def media. Blu-ray did NOT win this war.




RE: Bring out the dead!
By gamefoo21 on 2/12/2008 1:38:25 PM , Rating: 2
I was pro-blu until the BDA Caved to Disney/Fox with BD+.

I have a hard time at work not telling people they are idiots while walking out with BD-Players that are soon to be doorstops. How are BD+ movies that are built for V2(final spec) players that have an ethernet port and use the internet going to work on the older players? Hell version 1.0/1.1 players get the short end of the stick already, long boot times, and absolutely no special features due to no BD-J.

Also, how the hell are the technically inclined so en-masse supporting of Blu-Ray, the least consumer friendly of the formats. Oh yes please install your rootkits *spreads arse cheeks*, like I have a hard enough time with not losing faith in humanity. But even the average joe off the street, when and if I choose to tell him "the rest of the story", generally says screw that. Then I see them pick up a HD-DVD player and buy that.

Well... I guess all those PS3 owners do need a reason to use their consoles...


RE: Bring out the dead!
By Owls on 2/12/2008 1:40:40 PM , Rating: 2
oh look, Crystal Clear's twin.


RE: Bring out the dead!
By crystal clear on 2/13/2008 2:53:16 AM , Rating: 2
Unfortunately OWLS vision is not crystal clear


RE: Bring out the dead!
By crystal clear on 2/13/2008 6:02:37 AM , Rating: 2
After observing your repeated attacks on me with active assistance from one Savage...

I wish to remind you of this-

How do I get banned from DailyTech?
Occasionally we will completely ban a user or IP block from DailyTech. You can assure yourself a ban by:
* Harassing other users or employees
* Excessive use of derogatory language
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Cool down & STOP IT


We get it already...
By smitty3268 on 2/11/2008 6:28:56 PM , Rating: 3
Can we please stop getting 2-3 "so and so supports Blu-Ray now" articles a day. We understand, pretty much everybody is supporting it now. The only news worth writing would be if someone was doing the opposite.




RE: We get it already...
By nemrod on 2/11/2008 6:33:39 PM , Rating: 2
are you supposed by any reason to read all the news?
Best Buy to Push Blu-ray Titles, Hardware
Netflix Picks Blu-ray Disc as Exclusive HD Format

is enough to now the subject and to read or not


RE: We get it already...
By smitty3268 on 2/11/2008 6:49:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
is enough to now the subject and to read or not


Sure. But it's starting to get a little ridiculous. If I saw these headlines:
"Earth not flat, Cambridge research finds"
"Yale says 'Earth no pancake'"
"Stanford: Not on the edge of the world after all?"
then I would know not to read them. But are they really newsworthy enough to be there in the first place?

The war is over, HD-DVD lost. People on both sides should just get over it.


Blame Microsoft...
By kilkennycat on 2/12/2008 12:44:27 AM , Rating: 2
If Microsoft had chosen to incorporate a HD-DVD drive inside a Xbox360 SKU when the PS3 came out and consistently charged at least $50 less, how would the current scenario have played out? Very differently, I suspect... considering the relative sales of PS3 vs Xbox360.

Because Microsoft consistently worshipped the short-term bottom-line forcing the developers to design to the "core" Xbox360 specs ( no hard-disk etc and certainly no future prospect of a HD-DVD drive being available to store future graphics-intensive games ), Microsoft has been caught by their own boomerang. Expect a near-future updated version of the Xbox360 with internal Blu-ray drive and a 2nd-generation graphics-processor (Dx10 anybody...) otherwise the Xbox360 has really no future as the media/games center of the living-room. Fully backward-compatible with current Xbox360 software, of course.

All current Xbox360 owners can view themselves as 'early-adopters' especially those that shelled-out for the HD-DVD bag-on-the-side and those who have enjoyed the red-ring-of-death.




RE: Blame Microsoft...
By sweetsauce on 2/12/2008 2:11:13 AM , Rating: 2
Wtf are you talking about? All current Xbox360 owners have to expect in the near future is more developers jumping ship to the 360 since it is DOMINATING in SOFTWARE SALES, a place where PUBLISHERS and DEVELOPERS make money. Activision, EA, Ubisoft, etc. couldn't care less who has blu and who doesn't, they care that they consistantly sell MORE SOFTWARE on the XBOX360 than on any other HARDWARE. The market has already proven that they don't need HD-DVD or blu to sell games. Hell they don't even need an HD inside the 360 to sell games. So much for ps3 fanboy wishful thinking.


RE: Blame Microsoft...
By Owls on 2/12/2008 10:12:08 AM , Rating: 2
a few developers already bemoaned the DVD-9 storage limit on the 360. In fact there are more and more multi-disc games out (and coming out) for the 360.

No, I don't fault MS for not including a "next gen" drive in the 360. However, if they waited to launch it at the same time as the PS3 with a HD-DVD drive built in I think it's obvious to say we'd be in a different situation now.


Game, set, match!
By Scalptrash on 2/11/2008 5:48:32 PM , Rating: 1
I think they have already thrown in the towel, by promoting their players as cheap upscalers. Just don't forget, BD players also make excellent 1080P upscalers and they also play the winning format (always in 1080P!).
Better yet, buy a PS3 and get a state of the art gaming system with basically a free BD player built in. I know, I know, some of you will cry at how expensive a PS3 is, but it is still a baragin for what it is and what you get. The early HD-DVD adopters paid $500 for their players and soon there will be no new content, making them very expensive upscalers.
Still surprised Paramount hasn't officially reversed course. I would imagine the HD-DVD camp is threatening litigation if they try to leave their contract, escape clause or not.




RE: Game, set, match!
By melgross on 2/11/2008 6:33:23 PM , Rating: 3
The PS3 isn't THAT expensive.

The 360 costs $349. You get the standard model, with a 20GB HDD, and a DVD player.

The PS3 is $399, for that, you get the standard model, with a 40GB HDD, and the Blu-Ray player.

Sounds pretty cheap.

The 360 costs about $480 with the HD-DVD player thrown in. Not a bargain nowadays.

Of course, the Wii only goes to 480p widescreen.


people's choice
By melgross on 2/11/2008 6:44:04 PM , Rating: 2
It's a bit silly when people complain that they want to decide between the formats as to which will make it.

When has that ever really happened?

Did Edison poll people before he released his cylinders?

Did RCA and Colombia poll people before releasing the 33 and 45?

Were people polled before NTSC was adopted? Or Hi Def Tv?

Did the industry poll people before releasing the CD, or the DVD?

What's happening here is that BD outsold HD-DVD in every important way. Because of that, companies are dropping support for the losing format. What else could be expected? That's as close to a poll as can be expected.

Remember, the computer industry doesn't poll people before adopting busses, or any other standards, either.




RE: people's choice
By probedb on 2/12/2008 4:35:17 AM , Rating: 2
Yep, the difference nowadays is forums and comments systems like this are so prevalent on the internet that everyone thinks they're right, should be listened to and know more than anyone else.


Time for BLURAY to respond
By zaki on 2/11/2008 5:27:01 PM , Rating: 1
i think enough customers and organizations have made the statement (out of different reasons), now blu-ray needs to up its game to make sure things stay this way (and improve)




RE: Time for BLURAY to respond
By Big Greg on 2/12/2008 8:06:05 AM , Rating: 2
You know, I'm pretty okay with blu ray winning,
I'm even okay with my hd dvd player being rendered
obsolete. But with all the people pushing blu ray
can someone push the price's a little lower?? Say
in the $200 range??


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