DailyTech - Best Buy to Guarantee Xbox 360 Premium With HDMI on 9/1

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Gadgets Best Buy to Guarantee Xbox 360 Premium With HDMI on 9/1
Marcus Yam (Blog) - August 27, 2007 12:06 PM

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31 comment(s) - last by softwiz.. on Aug 28 at 10:40 AM

New Xbox 360 Premium with HDMI listed on Best Buy.com (Source: Best Buy)

Want an Xbox 360 Premium with HDMI? Check Best Buy on September 1

A new listing on Best Buy’s online store shows an Xbox 360 “Pro” Premium package that is assured to come equipped with an HDMI port. The package is listed to become available on September 1 for the current Xbox 360 20GB price of $349.99.

Reports of revised Xbox 360 Premium systems started earlier this month, when new owners of the console unexpectedly found that their machines came with HDMI output.

Consumers wanting to purchase an Xbox 360 console with the new output option have thus far had to carefully inspect each retail box for signs of HDMI. Best Buy is the first retailer to explicitly list for sale this newer hardware.

For gamers not requiring a guaranteed HDMI-enabled console, Best Buy also lists Xbox 360 Premium consoles at the same $349.99 price point but bundled with either Top Spin 2 or Need for Speed: Most Wanted.

Despite being a new hardware version, the updated Xbox 360 Premium now actually shares the same motherboard as the Xbox 360 Elite, which was released earlier this year. All Xbox 360 consoles on the market still use chips manufactured on the 90nm process.

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One step closer to 65nm

By Combatcolin on 8/27/2007 3:11:10 PM , Rating: 2

Now that MS have gotton this out of the way we are one step closer to 65nm.

I wonder if there expecting Halo 3 to shift all the 95nm stock?

RE: One step closer to 65nm

By omnicronx on 8/27/2007 3:17:25 PM , Rating: 2

From what i have heard the 65nm versions are just not ready, Microsoft wants to be sure this time around. Besides getting rid of the remaining elite motherboards, i do not see what this has to do with the release of 65nm parts.

In my mind if the 65nm process was ready, the shift would have happened after they stopped using the original premium mobo, that would have been the perfect time to switch as the stock would have already been depleted. (except for small amount needed for the core systems)

The addition of HDMI in my mind is a stall tactic to get people to still buy 360's during the halo release and not wait for 65nm versions.

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RE: One step closer to 65nm

By ObscureCaucasian on 8/27/2007 3:59:56 PM , Rating: 3

Actually I've heard that Falcon is already being manufactured, but it'll take a few months before they'll make it onto shelves. For more info on falcon read this:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2007/08/exclusive...

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RE: One step closer to 65nm

By omnicronx on 8/27/2007 4:04:15 PM , Rating: 2

I meant ready to put them on the shelves.
Weirdly enough though..

quote:
The board does not include a 65-nanometer version of the ATI graphics chip for the Xbox 360. That version of the graphics chip is coming later. A good question here is why not.

Didn't expect that, i thought it was going to be a double shrink.. thanks for the link, very informative although somewhat heresy.

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RE: One step closer to 65nm

By DingieM on 8/28/2007 3:32:57 AM , Rating: 2

What I believe is that the eDRAM is not yet at the wanted die-size that matches the other chips on the Falcon motherboard.
Don't know if eDRAM itself is going to 90nm or all the way to 65nm like the mother-die of the GPU.
Last but not least both mother and daughter (eDRAM) die could be placed together in one 65nm chip, but this is certainly a rumour albeit its technically possible.

What I've read is for the 65nm revision everyone should wait till end of this year.

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RE: One step closer to 65nm

By Samus on 8/27/2007 7:02:58 PM , Rating: 2

Actually I bet they're stocking inventory of 65nm boards FOR the release of Halo 3. I mean, the last time there were shortages of XBOX360's (Gears of War, last year about the same time) it was a joke in the retail sector that there were a few days that October you couldn't get a XBOX anywhere :)

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RE: One step closer to 65nm

By SunAngel on 8/27/2007 3:23:33 PM , Rating: 4

Stunood!!! Follow the logic. If 65nm technology is currently possible, why the wait to switch production technique? Why flood the channels with product you'll have to (possibly) discount later on if you intend to do a product refresh? Why is DailyTech not considering the HDMI Xbox 360 Premium the product refresh? Why, with all the current issues with RRoD models, isn't MS demanding 65nm production? Why this? Why that? Why anything? Why not go outside get some fresh air and think about why there are so many why's around why so many are wondering why MS is not doing the obvious?

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RE: One step closer to 65nm

By TomZ on 8/27/2007 3:31:35 PM , Rating: 5

Great post. Sometimes I think certain readers of DT have adopted the mentality that all corporations are run by greedy idiots. With some exceptions, most companies are run by pretty smart people, and while not all companies are as efficient as they could be, most decisions are made with pretty careful thought and consideration. Not all, but most.

As to the point at hand, I agree, that if 65nm was possible now, taking into account possible risks, I'm sure Microsoft would be rolling it out now. I'm sure the focus now is on planning for and building an inventory of good-quality units for the holiday shopping season. I would predict that you'll see the die-shrink rev after the holiday selling season is complete.

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RE: One step closer to 65nm

By Netscorer on 8/27/2007 8:50:52 PM , Rating: 3

From my personal experience I know that it may take one moron in marketing to successfully negate bunch of smart people in technology sector.
And marketing people only think in terms of profit.

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RE: One step closer to 65nm

By omnicronx on 8/27/2007 3:34:11 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Follow the logic Why flood the channels with product you'll have to (possibly) discount later on if you intend to do a product refresh?

I am trying to follow your logic, but i find it very illogical ;)
MS essentially stopped production of the old motherboard except for the core, so by your logic why not implement 65nm then? why add in another product refresh where a new white case had to be produced for no reason, all the while when 65nm comes out the market could be flooded with these old 90nm version just like you described.

you ask why, why, why, why, why? ... well i say; why not?

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RE: One step closer to 65nm

By omnicronx on 8/27/2007 3:36:06 PM , Rating: 2

sorry SunAngel, totally misread your post haha..
I'm suddenly wondering, why dont i have glasses...

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RE: One step closer to 65nm

By MonkeyPaw on 8/27/2007 6:13:20 PM , Rating: 3

quote:
If 65nm technology is currently possible, why the wait to switch production technique?

You are really under-simplifying the business model here. If you want to "follow the logic," consider that reducing the size of a semi-conductor (CPU, GPU, etc) is closely related to that of sales volume. Intel produces 75-80% of the world's desktop CPUs, and guess what? They are the first to adopt the smaller nodes (they aren't far from retailing 45nm). AMD makes up most of the other 20-25%, and they are frequently second to the newer tech (nVidia and the former ATI follow a similar model, but their sales are driven by some other factors).

This is done because AMD and Intel know that smaller CPUs means more profit per sale. However, retooling a fab to a smaller node is VERY expensive--especially early on when the equipment is quite hard to acquire--so the company needs some assurance that the transition costs will be recovered. In simple terms, they need to know that they will sell enough volume at the node to both justify the cost of retooling AND make a profit. Intel and AMD know that they will sell enough CPUs to recover the cost, not to mention that they are in direct competition to each other! They basically have no choice but to be first because of their market conditions.

Now about those console CPUs...

Only IBM makes CPUs for the Xbox360 (might as well throw in PS3 for the argument, too)--and those CPUs are only put in Xbox360s. This means that one, there is no competition, and two, there is a very limited sale volume. In other words, IBM is in no rush to spend lots of money to shrink the die of a limited sales item.

The transition to 65nm is still a logical choice because of cost savings and the ever dropping price of consoles, but IBM (and MS and Sony) obviously waited until equipment and fab space became available and affordable. If it makes you feel better, I'm sure the later bins of the 90nm of 360 CPUs are better than the earlier bins, so later models should be a little better (provided IBM even bins and MS can adjust vcore on their motherboard).

ATI switching over follows the same logic. They're better off using 65nm on desktop GPUs.

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RE: One step closer to 65nm

By Treckin on 8/27/2007 6:34:27 PM , Rating: 2

in essence waht you are saying is that while Intel and AMD manufacture all of their new node processing equipment, IBM (MS & Sony) has little incentive to do so. They would be far wiser to wait until the aging (unfourtunetly for AMD) 65nm fab equipment is available at reduced cost.

I think a far simpler buisness play is at hand though...

Why would MS ship newer, mroe desirable versions of a product which has millions of older revisions already on the shelves? They would be asinine to undercut themselves that way. Why not wait until the holliday season sells itself out of the older models?

I think this reason follows your logic to an extent.

Forgive the spelling, im typing this on a bus and have to go.

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RE: One step closer to 65nm

By energy1man on 8/28/2007 1:03:39 AM , Rating: 2

When the die shrink happens, I would bet the 65nm product will be mixed in along with the 90nm product. Most comsumers who will purchase the 360 won't know the difference one way or the other. The minority who do will know to get the 65nm.

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RE: One step closer to 65nm

By MrTeal on 8/28/2007 12:56:02 AM , Rating: 3

quote:
Only IBM makes CPUs for the Xbox360 (might as well throw in PS3 for the argument, too)--and those CPUs are only put in Xbox360s. This means that one, there is no competition, and two, there is a very limited sale volume. In other words, IBM is in no rush to spend lots of money to shrink the die of a limited sales item.

That's not really accurate. IBM doesn't make the CPUs, Chartered Semi does, patnered with IBM. If they switched a fab to 65nm, it wouldn't be limited to the XBOX 360 CPU, they could use it for any chip they like.

However, here's my little conspiracy theory I pulled out of my ass, for your enjoyment. I suspect it's about as accurate as most other ideas as to why there's no 65nm XBOX CPUs.

With the original XBOX, Microsoft and NVIDIA had disagreements as to how the cost savings NVIDIA experienced should be passed on to Microsoft, and they eventually went to court over it. It was settled, and I don't think the details of the settlement have been released.

With the XBOX 360, you can be sure Microsoft planned for die shrinks and cost savings, and negotiated them into the contracts. Now, depending on how agressive those negotiations were, it might not be in Chartered's best interest to shrink the die as soon as their process is available. Their may be other customers whose price per unit is fixed, where the savings resulting from the shrink would benefit Chartered more than shrinking the Xenon.

Again, IMHO, YMMV, etc, etc.

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RE: One step closer to 65nm

By Locutus465 on 8/27/2007 9:10:34 PM , Rating: 3

I actually broke down just recently and got a 360 in advance of and preparation for Halo 3. I've been leaving my system running for quite some time since buying it last week, workloads mixed between mostly idle while downloading content, playing HD Video content purchased on market place while downloading, and playing games for a few hours (gears and overlord rock)!

It's worth mentioning that my system is lying horizontally, in a completely open space. While the 360 is still not quite a cool and quiet as my Wii, I do have to say it's nowhere near as hot as I expected, in fact I'd say it's not any hotter than say, my PC (which has a whole mid-tower worth of airflow to keep it cool). I did specifically ask for an HDMI model while I was at the store, and the sales person was kind enough to point out the "HDMI" reference on the box of the unit I bought.

One funny little story to relate about the buying experience. While I was there, the sales person of course tried to get me to buy their 2 year extra coverage plan. I told them that I was happy with the standard warrantee, even though it meant sending in the unit if it died. He countered by telling me that the standard 3 year warrantee only covered the death ray...

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RE: One step closer to 65nm

By Locutus465 on 8/27/2007 9:00:32 PM , Rating: 2

I'm wondering if the earlier reported x-box arcade/etc packages are a sign of the 65nm chips... New design, new chips, new marketing all combined with new games to make the console complete better against Nintendo (and continue dominance over Sony in this generation).

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sooner than i thought

By omnicronx on 8/27/2007 3:11:49 PM , Rating: 2

I thought it would take until Christmas for big chains like bestbuy to deplete the non-hdmi editions stock. This makes me think the new premiums have been in production for a while. To have a channel that can guarantee hdmi only boxes, this must have been known about for a while. I wonder why we did not hear of this until a few weeks ago..

RE: sooner than i thought

By mars777 on 8/27/2007 3:49:49 PM , Rating: 3

Well considering the amount of replaced consoles, the majority of NON-HDMI consoles during last weeks were used to refurbish broken ones. So they easily used the non-HDMI reserves left.
And therefore they can now offer enough HDMI ones.

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RE: sooner than i thought

By omnicronx on 8/27/2007 3:58:42 PM , Rating: 2

i have 6 friends who in the past 3 months have returned and received their 360 and not one got a new console. One received their original console back fixed and the other 5 received refurbished consoles. MS does not give back a new console for everyone sent back for RROD, i dont know where you heard that either. MS does things by priority, if this is your first RROD you will surely not get a new 360, the more failures you have the higher you get put on their list for a new one.. Most people have to really complain in order to get a new box.

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RE: sooner than i thought

By FITCamaro on 8/27/2007 4:14:59 PM , Rating: 2

I just bought the warranty from Best Buy. In two years when the 65nm versions are out (both CPU and GPU), I'll call in the warranty, get my money back, and go purchase the then cheaper version.

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RE: sooner than i thought

By sxr7171 on 8/27/2007 4:18:30 PM , Rating: 2

You may not get a new one, but the MB is more than likely replaced. Those come from the non-HDMI stock of MBs.

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RE: sooner than i thought

By omnicronx on 8/27/2007 4:44:13 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
You may not get a new one, but the MB is more than likely replaced. Those come from the non-HDMI stock of MBs.

Currently yes, in 2 years, probably not. They are not going to be using 3+ year old mobo's in two years.

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It has a 90nm cip but also has NEW "Optical Out" problem...

By softwiz on 8/27/2007 5:45:50 PM , Rating: 3

MS is just using up stock of the older Elite boards so they can eventually put the 65nm on the market.

Unfortunately, they are also not providing "in the box" or "for sale separately" the "audio dongle" that comes with the Elite.

Why does this matter ?

People who can't use HDMI for audio as well as video, they will find that the HD AV Cable will not fit while the HDMI port is in use. The Elite's audio dongle was a slim build that solved this very problem.

So, if you get one of these make sure that your receiver...

* Has at least one HDMI input
* Supports audio on HDMI. (Unforunately this isn't a given).

I had a premium originally and sold it. These days, I've got an an Elite. While I'd love to be wrong, I don't think that's the case.

RE: It has a 90nm cip but also has NEW "Optical Out" problem...

By Locutus465 on 8/27/2007 9:18:47 PM , Rating: 2

I was wondering if there was some solution to this problem... I switched my premium over to component due to my TV down mixing HDMI audio to stereo... Now that I know these dongles exist, I'm wondering if they can be ebayed and fitted on to a premium... The only thing cooler than that would be if MS released an update that made x-boxes recognize external USB hard drives in at least FAT32 & NTFS formats...

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RE: It has a 90nm cip but also has NEW "Optical Out" problem...

By ShapeGSX on 8/27/2007 9:58:58 PM , Rating: 3

The optical output dongle is available for sale here:
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=8...

Comes with an HDMI cable.

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RE: It has a 90nm cip but also has NEW "Optical Out" problem...

By Locutus465 on 8/28/2007 12:05:16 AM , Rating: 2

Well damn, very nice! I also found just the dongle on ebay, not sure what price it would go for though. Might be better just to buy this. At any rate, nice to know I have an HDMI option.

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RE: It has a 90nm cip but also has NEW "Optical Out" problem...

By softwiz on 8/28/2007 10:40:56 AM , Rating: 2

So, for those who purchase the HDMI enabled Premium at $350...

Should they decide to use it they can pickup this $50 kit or hope to get them cheaper elsewhere. Not ideal, but good.

At least, I'm glad I was wrong about there not being a cable for sale separately. I looked earlier but found nothing.

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Why wait?

By ObscureCaucasian on 8/27/2007 4:05:19 PM , Rating: 2

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-Console-20GB-Hard-Drive...

Besides a couple weeks ago I noticed my local BB has both versions out. To the average consumer, the non HDMI seemed like the better deal cause it has some tennis game in the box, so they didn't buy the HDMI version. Last week I was in there and they had only one "Pro" console on the shelf and it was the HDMI version.

RE: Why wait?

By Locutus465 on 8/27/2007 9:21:54 PM , Rating: 2

Or just walk into best buy now... If you're too lazy to read the box your self I'm sure the sales people will be more than happy to point out the HDMI ones (if in stock) to you...

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