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Researchers say that liquid batteries are still years away

A group of researchers from MIT is working on a method of designing large, eco-friendly, stationary batteries that are made entirely from liquid metal and would be capable of storing enormous amounts of power.

The liquid batteries are being eyed as potential storage mediums for power generated by wind farms or solar cells and may one day serve as backup power systems for hospitals. Hospitals today relay on massive generators for power in emergencies.

One of the MIT researchers, Don Sadoway, said, "Since these batteries won't be in someone's hand or in a car, we don't have to make them crash-worthy, idiot-proof, and it doesn't have to operate at around body temperature."

The battery Sadoway and his team have developed has no solid materials in them from the electrodes, membranes and any other parts of the battery. The anode, cathode, and membrane of the battery designed by the team are all made from molten liquids.

The team has tried many different combinations of liquids over the years in the battery. One of the first liquid metal combinations tried was molten antimony and magnesium with sodium sulfide between the two to store energy.

The layers of the battery won't mix because each layer has a different weight, rather like mixing oil and water in a glass and watching the layers separate back out after mixing. The specific composition of the battery the team is currently working on is a secret.

The battery is encased in stainless steel and is reported to have to maintain a temperature of 500 degrees to keep the metals inside in liquid form. The final size of the battery has not yet been determined.

Sadoway says, "This should be easy to scale up. If we want to make a battery the size of a 33 gallon garbage can we can do it. If we want to make [a battery] the size of a football field we could do it."

The liquid metal batteries would require about the same safety precautions as a standard household oven reports MSNBC. Fully liquid metal batteries are expected to replace molten liquid batteries at some point.

Battery expert Marca Doeff from the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory said, "This is still a conceptual idea. There are still engineering challenges that need to be overcome." The researchers believe that liquid metal batteries are still years away from reality.



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500 degrees?!
By quiksilvr on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: 500 degrees?!
By garbageacc3 on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: 500 degrees?!
By phaxmohdem on 3/27/2009 6:40:55 PM , Rating: 5
Perhaps they can hire you to stand by and constantly flame the battery all day long to keep its temp. up :)


RE: 500 degrees?!
By stirfry213 on 3/30/2009 4:41:30 PM , Rating: 2
Thank you for instantly turning my hatred towards garbageacc3 to laughter... good stuff.


RE: 500 degrees?!
By PrinceGaz on 3/27/2009 6:43:17 PM , Rating: 3
How do you know he's an American?

Otherwise I've got to agree with your comment, though not how you said it. I would expect most people who read DT would realise the heat is used only to keep the metals liquid (as only Mercury is liquid at room temperature- assuming your room isn't hotter than 25C).


RE: 500 degrees?!
By spread on 3/27/2009 7:53:16 PM , Rating: 5
I told your mother not to let you use the computer unsupervised.


RE: 500 degrees?!
By FITCamaro on 3/27/2009 11:06:04 PM , Rating: 5
Oh look another idiot 12 year old.


RE: 500 degrees?!
By garbageacc4 on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: 500 degrees?!
By phxfreddy on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: 500 degrees?!
By wordsworm on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: 500 degrees?!
By garbageacc4 on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: 500 degrees?!
By shin0bi272 on 3/28/09, Rating: 0
RE: 500 degrees?!
By safcman84 on 3/30/09, Rating: 0
RE: 500 degrees?!
By Samus on 3/28/09, Rating: 0
RE: 500 degrees?!
By shin0bi272 on 3/28/2009 10:00:25 PM , Rating: 5
No, no, no... he was licking the floor behind the toilet because that's the only food he can afford since hes on the interwebz all day berating people with his preschool language and his graduate degree in particle physics...


RE: 500 degrees?!
By garbageacc4 on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: 500 degrees?!
By menace on 3/29/2009 12:26:45 AM , Rating: 1
Cartman? STFU you fatass


RE: 500 degrees?!
By MrPoletski on 3/30/2009 4:45:15 AM , Rating: 2
Dude, it's bad enough when americans give other americans a bad name by being stupid or ignorant whatever..

But right now you're giving the rest of the world a bad name so STFU.


RE: 500 degrees?!
By bluemagic on 3/29/09, Rating: 0
RE: 500 degrees?!
By acase on 3/30/2009 11:25:29 AM , Rating: 2
you can once you post enough


RE: 500 degrees?!
By leexgx on 4/1/2009 9:52:34 AM , Rating: 2
you can only rate if you not posted in this blog (i am guessing some users have 5-6 accounts to rate users down)


RE: 500 degrees?!
By Maharajamd on 3/30/2009 8:54:08 AM , Rating: 1
All the negative comments in here are from you. It clouds up the discussion. I more enjoy reading peoples comments then the story most of the time. But not when losers like you come in and do nothing productive. Shut up or get out, seriously.


RE: 500 degrees?!
By callmeroy on 3/30/2009 9:23:44 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
no retard, it doesn't gain electric charge by heat

goddamn americunts are so dumb

the heat is so that the fucking metal remains a liquid


Granted, I've disagree with that poster on numerous occasions and I think he gets a little overly impolite at times to....BUT, fair is fair and your post was an extreme over-reaction.

It almost looks like you dislike him on a personal level with your over-reaction.


RE: 500 degrees?!
By callmeroy on 3/30/2009 9:25:40 AM , Rating: 2
oops forgot the system auto down grades profanity...shouldn't have used his quote...


RE: 500 degrees?!
By Hieyeck on 3/27/2009 9:07:32 PM , Rating: 2
Mercury~


RE: 500 degrees?!
By rs1 on 3/27/2009 10:39:28 PM , Rating: 2
Well actually, if its storage potential is as high as what they're claiming, then it could just use some of its own stored energy to maintain the required temperature. Of course, that seems rather inefficient, but I assume any production version of these things would be exceedingly well insulated. If that's the case, maintaining the correct internal temperature might not be that difficult.


RE: 500 degrees?!
By taber on 3/28/2009 12:18:25 AM , Rating: 2
If you read around you can find a little more information on it:
http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?...

60,000 square meters to store enough energy to provide 13 gigawatts of power throughout a New York night would be impressive. Wish they'd have listed cubic meters instead, but owell.

It'll be interesting whenever they release some hard statistics on it.


RE: 500 degrees?!
By Guspaz on 3/29/2009 11:25:39 PM , Rating: 2
Not that their numbers are particularly useful without other information, but if you scale it down to a single megawatt for a day (something like what a small to medium sized datacentre would require), you get to the point where you can have a few days worth of power stored in an acceptable space. If you can then run off battery power for any outage shorter than a few days, and only switch to generators for longer outages, you can potentially save a load of money on fuel costs. At least here in Montreal, electricity (from hydro) is a tiny fraction the cost of fuel.


RE: 500 degrees?!
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 3/30/2009 11:59:02 AM , Rating: 2
Wow, I think this one comment generated enough heat to keep these batteries molten for quite some time. If only I could understand some of the grammar. Clearly an intelligent lot. Lots of wasted motion = heat.


Liquid Metals
By drycrust on 3/28/2009 12:53:56 AM , Rating: 3
I had a job last year where they used a metal that would melt in hot water. It was used in the process of grinding plastic lenses for glasses. The metal wasn't allowed to go above something like 70 deg Celsius. The point being that while we all think of metals as being liquid at several hundred degrees C, the fact is there are some alloys which have lower melting points.




RE: Liquid Metals
By garbageacc3 on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: Liquid Metals
By wordsworm on 3/28/09, Rating: 0
RE: Liquid Metals
By just4U on 3/28/2009 6:22:35 AM , Rating: 3
Hey now, I resemble that remark and I've never insulted anyone on these forums. Not Once!


RE: Liquid Metals
By FITCamaro on 3/28/2009 12:32:00 PM , Rating: 3
Typical Canadian. Too afraid to even insult anyone for fear that someone with a BB gun will come take over their country.

Just messing with you. :)


RE: Liquid Metals
By just4U on 3/28/2009 10:03:32 PM , Rating: 2
I seem to recall that from FallOut :P


RE: Liquid Metals
By wordsworm on 3/28/2009 1:56:01 PM , Rating: 2
I just can't think of any other race of people (for lack of a better word) who hates Americans more than Quebecois. His English is a bit off, but without any British or Australian tone to it. So I was thinking he's either Quebecois or American.


RE: Liquid Metals
By mead drinker on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: Liquid Metals
By joos2000 on 3/28/2009 6:31:32 PM , Rating: 2
Hmm, what is it with all the hate on a TECH forum? Aren't we supposed to be educated people? Posts like this and the ones above are just fuel for his nerd-rage. Ignorance will be the wet blanket here, so even if he 'cracks your shits', just STFU and watch it go away.

Even though I find it hilarious that Mr Garbage Access #X manages to take intellectual superiority even with his clearly detrimental cognitive ability and abrasive typing, I would rather see him and all your replies to his annoying posts, wither away.


RE: Liquid Metals
By shin0bi272 on 3/28/2009 9:22:17 PM , Rating: 2
How many accounts are you going to have to make before you get the point that you arent on youtube or some other forum for any old idiot to post in? Please just go away before your IP gets banned.


RE: Liquid Metals
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 3/30/2009 12:03:35 PM , Rating: 1
Wow, maybe you could get a penis augmentation operation so that you wouldn't feel compelled to rant so much to compensate for your current small size.

Love the grammar, btw. You are clearly a scholar.


Basic limitation?
By StoveMeister on 3/27/2009 9:13:54 PM , Rating: 2
Is it just me or is no-one noticing the basic limitation that is the fact it's made of liquid? I mean one of the biggest advantages of a solid is that they sort of stay where they're put. Liquids by definition are free to slosh around. My worry is that vibrations from nearby traffic, earthquakes or whatever will change the geometry of the liquid interfaces enough to cause a discharge. If the capacity is so large the discharge could be messy. . .




RE: Basic limitation?
By Fritzr on 3/27/2009 10:59:16 PM , Rating: 2
Read the article again. The researchers did not miss that. They state that since the battery is not portable it does not have to be stable during movement. This needs just enough structural stability to not fall apart under expected stresses. For a real world example consider the difficulty of taking a site built home and putting it on the highway.


RE: Basic limitation?
By geddarkstorm on 3/30/2009 3:08:54 PM , Rating: 2
I think the OP was fully aware of that. Also, your post doesn't address his points about vibrations from nearby vehicles or earthquakes potentially having a negative impact. None the less, you are right in that it's a lot easier to engineer something that can soak up those ambient vibrations than design something crash or high speed movement worthy; which is what the article insinuated.


RE: Basic limitation?
By akosixiv on 3/28/2009 12:20:18 PM , Rating: 2
if its going to be placed undergound then the only major problem they'll have is earthquakes. We already have the technology to dampen its effects on buildings, it would be easy just to engineer it a bit to support this kind of installation too.


Debate about nothing
By TedE on 3/28/2009 1:18:03 AM , Rating: 5
A good battery is one that has high-efficiency on charging and low loss rates over time. Since we know nothing about either of these from this article there is nothing useful to discuss.




RE: Debate about nothing
By shin0bi272 on 3/28/2009 10:07:15 PM , Rating: 2
Thats true but this, like many battery or solar panel, articles on "green" power or some exciting new technology is a sort of white paper on the theory or the experiment that a college professor has been working on for decades and finally garnered some attention from some left wing news media thats all crazy for green energy. Most of them are just theories or if they have been proven or in some cases even have a prototype they almost never make it to the market and by the time they do everyone has forgotten about the article they read here about it 5 or 10 years ago. So its really not a question of is this a GOOD technology or not, its more of a question of is this a technology or not... is this just a crazy idea from a college professor (or worse his students) or is it an actual piece of hardware like the tesla motors car that they just unveiled.


Science?
By kontorotsui on 3/28/2009 3:27:58 AM , Rating: 2
The whole article has no numbers, how much "massive" is it?
The only number is "33 gallons" which is not even a unit in International System.
And you write "science" near the title?




RE: Science?
By Fritzr on 3/29/2009 1:23:10 PM , Rating: 5
33 gallons is a measurement in an internationala system of weights and measures. Been in use a lot longer than the metric system and looks to have a long life ahead of it :P

You need to get out more. The gallon is a unit from the system that includes ounces, pounds and the pint you buy at the pub.


"molten liquids"
By rmlarsen on 3/27/2009 7:01:01 PM , Rating: 3
Wow! What they come up with these days... Next thing you know they'll have invented frozen solids or sublimated gases.

(Sorry, couldn't help myself :-) )




RE: "molten liquids"
By Chernobyl68 on 3/27/2009 7:26:00 PM , Rating: 2
Chemistry terminology FTW!


RE: "molten liquids"
By shin0bi272 on 3/28/09, Rating: 0
Weight vs. density
By Dark Legion on 3/28/2009 8:54:46 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
The layers of the battery won't mix because each layer has a different weight


Actually the metals will not mix due to their density, which is mass/volume (kg/m^3).

As a sidenote, weight is not to be confused with mass, as weight is mass*velocity, or mass*gravity.




Questionable Marketing Tactic
By mindless1 on 3/27/2009 10:59:25 PM , Rating: 2
If it's not going to be portable, then the only advantage they're talking about (energy density), isn't very important.

Notice absence of efficiency and cost!




Reality...
By greylica on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
useless
By garbageacc3 on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: useless
By aurelian on 3/27/2009 7:15:22 PM , Rating: 4
Why such anger? Did some american d*ck slap your mom in the past? ...Let it all out there, Tiger.


RE: useless
By myocardia on 3/27/2009 8:13:41 PM , Rating: 4
From the content of his posts, I'm pretty sure it wasn't his mother that was d*ck slapped by an American.;)


RE: useless
By garbageacc3 on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: useless
By lexluthermiester on 3/28/2009 3:27:20 PM , Rating: 1
Did someone abuse you? Or do you get your jollies acting like a complete and total nit-wit?

quote:
they'd turn iraq into a glass bowl.


Can we all assume you mean that we should have nuked them? Can anyone think of a more irresponsible thing we could have done?

quote:
fucking dumb redneck white trash inbred hillbilly faggot tard ass americunt


Waxing poetic are you? Perhaps a mirror is in order?


RE: useless
By wretcheddawn on 3/30/2009 4:50:21 PM , Rating: 1
Actually, it's the rednecks who WANT to turn Iraq into a "glass bowl".

-- an American Redneck


RE: useless
By cscpianoman on 3/27/2009 7:58:34 PM , Rating: 5
Jumping to conclusions much?

Energy storage isn't about the gross energy needed, but the net energy. If it takes 500 joules of energy to maintain an energy store, but you can get out 2000 joules than it may be worth the expense of using those 500 joules to maintain the battery.

Also, this isn't a lake of fire/brimstone here. This would have insulation up and down to keep heat loss to a minimum, meaning the only expense is a large up front energy cost to get the metals to 500F and the energy required to maintain that temperature and part of that energy can be gained from the fact charging a battery produces heat.

I'm American, by the way, be careful of stereotyping too quickly, you might miss a few things.


RE: useless
By Hieyeck on 3/27/2009 9:08:43 PM , Rating: 1
+1 this post.


RE: useless
By garbageacc3 on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: useless
By icanhascpu on 3/28/2009 1:10:24 AM , Rating: 2
"you continually energy heating it, while it stores a CONSTANT amount of energy. over time, you'd spend MORE energy keeping the damn thing working than the energy it can stored."

lol Engrish ftw


RE: useless
By karkas on 3/28/2009 1:53:09 AM , Rating: 5
DON'T FEED TO TROLLS!


RE: useless
By FITCamaro on 3/28/2009 12:30:04 PM , Rating: 5
What about rat poison? Can we feed them that?


RE: useless
By lexluthermiester on 3/28/2009 3:43:47 PM , Rating: 2
No, no , no! We don't want to kill him. Just whack him up on drugs. Then we could give him a blanket party! Then throw him back into the zoo he came out of.


RE: useless
By shin0bi272 on 3/28/2009 9:40:44 PM , Rating: 3
lol

Hes already on drugs isnt it obvious?


RE: useless
By ThisSpaceForRent on 3/28/2009 2:29:43 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
insulation becomes less effective as the delta between object temp and room temp increases.


We couldn't do something crazy like use a vacuum flask to insulate the battery? I mean it works for liquid nitrogen, what's to say it couldn't work in reverse? After all heat is heat, it's just a matter of which way you want to prevent the flow of said heat.


RE: useless
By garbageacc3 on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: useless
By pakotlar on 3/28/2009 1:21:36 PM , Rating: 3
No offense, but I've read your posts, and you don't understand the first thing about physics. I don't care what country you're from, you have no idea what you're talking about. I suspect that the dumb americunts at MIT are way fukin smarter than you. And I think that you will find that vacuum insulation does wonders for heat insulation. Haven't you ever heard of a vacuum insulated thermos? Har har, but seriously, heat can only be lost through electromagnetic radiation in a vacuum, and that 500 degree F metal radiates at a fairly low rate. And believe it or not, what you were able to google for the troll-capades here the MIT scientists designing this thing have considered. People like you need to be killed, to decrease the level of fukin moron on this earth.


RE: useless
By shin0bi272 on 3/28/2009 9:50:24 PM , Rating: 1
You are also forgetting that the energy lost by radiation of heat is partially regained by the surrounding objects. So it will reclaim some of the heat it loses by radiation from the other things around it like the outside of the container in a vacuum or the ground if its buried underground.


RE: useless
By garbageacc4 on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: useless
By Nightraptor on 3/29/2009 3:43:41 PM , Rating: 1
Judging by the fact that you spend your time trolling a forum just to point out how stupid people are and call them names when they get some detail wrong or simply disagree with you, I would guess you actually think your own life is worth very little. Of course you would never admit this, but your behavior betrays you.


RE: useless
By PhoenixKnight on 3/27/2009 11:28:07 PM , Rating: 4
Ignore him, he's probably just some self-hating American emo kid with too much free time on his hands.


RE: useless
By shin0bi272 on 3/28/2009 10:18:32 PM , Rating: 2
HAND ... Singular... the other one is diddling his arse.


RE: useless
By mindless1 on 3/28/2009 1:52:42 AM , Rating: 2
Umm, WHAT?

You're not heating the metal to release energy, you still have to put that 2000 joules into the battery so all they've claimed to have accomplished is having to maintain a heated battery to increase storage density in an application that is seldom 'site-storage space limited.

In other words, besides the density we are contrasting having to maintain with 500 joules versus having to maintain with 0 joules (there will also be losses that need a maintenance charge with other battery types but there was no mention of this type not also needing such a charge).

IMO, the one application this makes the most sense in is one where the facility needed central heating most of the year due to th climate, and the radiated heat used to maintain the 500F battery would've otherwise been heating the facility anyway.


RE: useless
By Bioniccrackmonk on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: useless
By tonyfreak215 on 3/28/2009 8:13:32 AM , Rating: 1
Don't you just love this guy? I got a real laugh out of his posts.

Americunts? You keep calling us that over and over, what no imagination to come up with another name?

Also great job with all of the cussing. Did your school not expand your vocabulary enough so you could refrain from cursing?

To stay on topic:

I don't think this is practical for day-to-day use, yet.

The biggest hurdle would be to keep the temperature up. Although if you use this in conjunction with a generator, (which i believe is the plan) they could channel the exhaust to heat up the metals.


RE: useless
By DFranch on 3/28/2009 2:26:52 PM , Rating: 1
If it wasn't for your hatred of Americans (jealous much) and your ridiculously superior attitude you may have been able to add something useful to the conversation on this topic. Unfortunately, even though you seem to have some knowledge on the subject, since you can't seem to share information without name calling and swearing, any valid points you make are lost. What is the point of even posting here? overcompensating for feelings of inadequacy? You don't say where you are from which says a lot. Nor do you elaborate on why you seem to think your education was so superior to everybody else in this forum. That says a lot as well.


RE: useless
By Goty on 3/28/2009 5:28:43 PM , Rating: 2
I've figured it out, garbage is almost certainly an American.

Who else would automatically consider that a given temperature is in degrees Fahrenheit instead of in Celsius (or in Kelvin for that matter)?


RE: useless
By Musafa on 3/28/2009 6:24:26 PM , Rating: 3
All Hail! King of the looooosers......

Very sorry for feeding the troll but I felt that a quote from Age of Empires would be a good fit for this one.


RE: useless
By shin0bi272 on 3/28/2009 9:57:09 PM , Rating: 2
video game reference/quote for an angry video game nerd's postings... Classic. You sir are a genius and I salute you.


Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By Hapikern on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
By PrinceGaz on 3/27/2009 6:46:15 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
wasting huge amounts of energy to maintan those 500º C to the liquid metal....in a small volume should be easy

Actually it will be easier with a large volume because less heat will be lost due to the smaller surface-area to volume ratio.


RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By thilanliyan on 3/27/2009 7:10:31 PM , Rating: 1
Exactly, unless this is much more efficient (including the heating to 500C) than having a generator it's not such a great idea.


RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By BigT383 on 3/27/2009 9:04:33 PM , Rating: 3
This wouldn't be a technology to replace generators, but rather for other areas where large-scale industrial batteries make sense- uninterruptable power supplies for buildings or as an energy sink to, for instance, help control brownouts in the summer when everybody is running their air conditioner.

And in an industrial setting you could possibly use waste heat to keep the battery liquids molten. Granted that wouldn't always be the case, I'm just saying it's conceivable.


By Murloc on 3/28/2009 7:36:55 AM , Rating: 1
this could be good for nuclear plants.

But I think it costs less to pump water in water towers or mountain reservoirs.


RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By Spuke on 3/28/2009 5:11:31 PM , Rating: 5
Now if we could just figure out how to extract the waste heat from a California congressman's mouth...


By Chocobollz on 3/30/2009 8:39:04 AM , Rating: 2
Or better yet, the waster heat from their 4ss? :p


By PhoenixKnight on 3/30/2009 9:49:43 AM , Rating: 2
I'm pretty sure that would overload the power grid.


RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By wordsworm on 3/28/2009 3:11:17 AM , Rating: 3
That's not so hard. A perfect vacuum is perfect insulation. This is not a difficult issue with the battery.


RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By garbageacc3 on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By wordsworm on 3/28/2009 6:06:29 AM , Rating: 2
I suppose you've never had a vacuum sealed Thermos before. You can put soup in it and it will stay hot for most of the day. Put the same soup in a non vacuum sealed container and you'll see how quickly the heat is dissipated.

The reason we feel heat from the sun is because of the photons it bombards us with along those electromagnetic waves. Furthermore, if you put up an umbrella that blocks the light from the sun, you might notice that it gets significantly cooler. So, to block off radiation only requires a basic barrier. I don't think the soup has these photons traveling through the container to warm up the exterior. However, the lid of the container will get warm because it does not have a vacuum, and this is why the next day that soup will still be cool.

By the way, what is wrong with you? Are you a French Canadian?


RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By garbageacc4 on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By chris2618 on 3/28/2009 7:33:45 AM , Rating: 5
"IR rays are not photons and vice versa."

IR rays are photons and you talk about people embarrassing themselves


RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By wordsworm on 3/28/2009 8:02:30 AM , Rating: 5
I don't think he really cares. He just likes berating people. I wonder how long it will take admin to ban him.


RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By FITCamaro on 3/28/2009 12:24:45 PM , Rating: 4
Me thinks PLAYSTATION3 snorted some crack, signed up on a new name, and is going to town.

It's clearly someone already on the site who's begging for some attention while not wanting to ruin their other name.


RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By wordsworm on 3/28/2009 1:15:44 PM , Rating: 2
Playstation3 clearly was not using his mother tongue. He tried, and he wasn't like this at all. Quite frankly, I thought he was dealt with unfairly. This guy is a whack job.


By Spuke on 3/28/2009 5:20:13 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
yet another child left behind.
With the right timing, this comment would be hilarious. But combined with the other drivel... Anywho, it's probably someone that got pissed off in another thread. Message to the angry man, if you really want to make people look silly, disprove them. You might get theirs and everyone else's attention. Right now, people just think you're a lonely nerd living in Mom's basement.


RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By garbageacc4 on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
By joos2000 on 3/28/2009 6:22:29 PM , Rating: 1
Oh, I feel the nerd-rage is strong with this one.

"Be the goat", "Take the left hand path" and all that is all fine mate, but please, keep your convictions of superiority to yourself, as most educated people do.


RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By sld on 3/28/2009 12:38:59 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
incandescent light bulbs have a filament in a vacuum

For all that indiscriminate cursing you fail to appreciate that if light bulbs had vacuums, they would implode at random given the thinness of the bulb wall.

No, the interior of an incandescent bulb is filled with argon or nitrogen.

No, I'm not an American. Stop your trolling, because you're acting precisely like a typical American who sits at his com in the basement all day looking for people to flame.


By wordsworm on 3/28/2009 2:02:09 PM , Rating: 1
Argon or nitrogen - hmmm... I guess that's what his head is filled with. And here I thought it was empty. But clearly, if it was, his head would implode.


RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By Spuke on 3/28/2009 5:22:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Stop your trolling, because you're acting precisely like a typical American
He's a typical American? So all 300 million of us act like this a$$hole. Great. Do you even know any Americans to make such a sweeping statement like that? Now I'm offended.


By Nightraptor on 3/28/2009 8:49:58 PM , Rating: 1
Garbage,

Just wondering what give's you the right to set yourself up as being soooooo much smarter than all us "americunts". Maybe you could give us some qualifications, a degree or two, or maybe a doctoral thesis. As is everything you've stated could be found by simply using wikipedia assuming someone actually wanted to know. This being a computer hardware website most people could probably care less about the thermodynamics of a molten battery.

That being said I am quite sure that the makers of such a battery are well aware of all the problems you have mentioned and have come with solutions to them. Otherwise the odds of them actually attempting to market such a product are slim. Despite the current administrations attempts to change things we still are a (quasi) capitalist nation and a product that performs poorly will cause a company to end up just like the Big 3 automakers - on their way out of business.


By Fritzr on 3/29/2009 1:34:55 PM , Rating: 2
He's thinking vacuum tubes. They can get quite hot from the heat transferred to their glass shell by the light generated during operation. That pesky IR radiation again :P It depends on design though, A CRT is a vacuum tube that is designed to be cool when operating.


By tank171 on 3/29/2009 3:40:21 PM , Rating: 1
Lightbulbs are filled with inert gas, they are not a vaccuum. If they were a vaccuum, the would be crushed instantly by the insane amount of air pressure. And even if it was mad of something other than brittle glass, it woulnt be very useful, as the opacity of the material would likely block out much or all of the light or the bulb would be rediculously thick, making it completely impractical.

Also the vaccuum would surely cause leaks very quickly and burn out the fillament.


By MrPoletski on 3/30/2009 4:56:05 AM , Rating: 1
Yank bashing is fun, sure, but it should be enjoyed responsibly.

Meanwhile you're talking a ton of crap about light.

Dont make me go debroglie on your a55


RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By bridgeman on 3/28/2009 3:25:51 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, the soup is losing energy through the vacuum. It's caused by thermal radiation. You can't stop the soup from losing energy this way, but the rate of energy loss is far slower than via conduction and convection. (This is why getting rid of heat can be a problem in space.)

Adding a simple barrier (like an umbrella) won't stop the soup from thermally radiating. The barrier will just absorb the photons itself. A perfectly reflective barrier would return the radiated photons to the soup, maintaining the temperature. Space blankets are an example of a reflective thermal barrier.

Also, those photons from the sun are the electromagnetic waves. Wave/particle duality.


By wordsworm on 3/28/2009 4:38:34 PM , Rating: 1
I would liken the photon to a car and the wave to the road it travels. I wouldn't say that a photon and an electromagnetic wave are the same things, even if they're related.

The Thermos soup radiation energy loss is minimal at best. As you say, there is a reflective surface. The area where it loses its heat is at the capping point because there is no vacuum there.


By shin0bi272 on 3/28/2009 10:14:46 PM , Rating: 1
That entire post was a "debate" on the word perfect. All you had to say was he was forgetting about radiation and leave it at that... but apparently thats too hard for you to do... some superior intellect you are.


RE: Store energy by wasting energy... hmmm
By Jedi2155 on 3/28/2009 3:30:57 PM , Rating: 2
I guess you guys never heard of a molten salt battery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_battery

My company did research into them as automotive battery about a decade ago as they had a energy density similar to what the nano-phosphate lithium that are all the rage now.

I was told by my boss that the primary reason they failed was due to an ability to shape the batteries to a size needed by different applications.


By SoCalBoomer on 3/30/2009 5:37:56 PM , Rating: 2
THANK YOU for probably the SINGLE intelligent post on here. I had heard of Molten Salt batteries but had never looked them up or even really thought about them. . . thank you for the link.


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