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20GB PS3 will soon be gone forever
End of the line for 20GB and 60GB PlayStation 3 consoles in Japan

PS2 backwards compatibility is going the way of the dodo bird as Sony announced today that both the 20GB and 60GB PlayStation 3 models are discontinued in Japan.

The final shipment of the 20GB and 60GB machines will be hit Japanese retailers throughout January. Sony stated in its press release, “Upon termination of the shipment, the sales of both models will be limited to stock in the market.”

Taking the place of the two original models, which were available Japan since the console’s launch on November 11, 2006, is the 40GB (CECHH00 Series) model introduced in November 2007.

Like the 40GB model that appears in other markets, the CECHH00 Series machine does without any PS2 backwards compatibility hardware, though PSone titles are still supported via full software emulation. What the 40GB model loses in PS2 ability, it gains in fashion. Available in Asia is a Ceramic White PlayStation 3 console with a matching white DualShock 3 controller.

Gamers outside Japan have been living without the original launch SKUs for at least several months. The original entry level 20GB model was first discontinued in the U.S. following a sharp decline in availability.

Following the launch of an 80GB PS3 model, Sony ceased to produce new 60GB units allowing inventory to deplete to the point of the model’s extinction.

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blah
By NullSubroutine on 1/10/08, Rating: 0
RE: blah
By stmok on 1/10/08, Rating: 0
RE: blah
By DeathFalcon on 1/10/2008 6:28:52 PM , Rating: 4
No the 40gb model drops both Hardware and Software emulation. Over in Australia we have only been able to purchase a 40gb option... which doesn't make sense, why give us the Console that supposed to make the upper tier solution look better... oh yeah its Sony


RE: blah
By stmok on 1/10/2008 6:41:06 PM , Rating: 2
I didn't know they COMPLETELY dropped backward compatibility!

Sony promised something, and took it back. People aren't gonna be happy. Trust has been broken.


RE: blah
By kyp275 on 1/10/2008 7:17:38 PM , Rating: 1
they didn't. You still have PS1 backward compatibility, they dropped the PS2 due to removal of both the EE chip AND the video processor chip


RE: blah
By jtemplin on 1/10/2008 7:41:13 PM , Rating: 1
Dude he(stmok) meant for PS2 only. He wouldn't be surprised or care if PS1 dropped. I hadn't heard that they dropped software emulation for PS2 either. They are like a sinking ship just barely kept afloat by a bucket line.


RE: blah
By Christopher1 on 1/11/08, Rating: -1
RE: blah
By StevoLincolnite on 1/11/2008 3:06:46 AM , Rating: 1
99 Bucks here for Zelda, I must admit though being a Zelda fan, that series I would probably almost pay any price for as long as I could afford it.
The other sad part is still the insane price of the PS3 here in Australia, Its the cost of a Second hand VN Commodore.


RE: blah
By jajig on 1/11/2008 10:54:08 AM , Rating: 1
A full tank of petrol is the cost of a second hand VN Commodore!


RE: blah
By BansheeX on 1/11/2008 3:35:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I have a big collection of PS1 games that I have bought legally and I want to be able to play them.... I guess it's ePSXe for me until Sony gets it's head out of it's ass.


Huh? You claim to have PS1/PS2 games but not the PS1/PS2 on which to play them? Also, all PS3s have PS1 BC... why would you need ePSXe exactly? You lost me.


RE: blah
By geeg on 1/12/08, Rating: 0
RE: blah
By Christopher1 on 1/11/08, Rating: -1
RE: blah
By BansheeX on 1/11/2008 3:46:51 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
consumers, who had been told throughout the whole run-up to the release of the PS3, that they would be totally backwards compatible......


And it was, wasn't it? Where's the lie? If they drop anything, they get ragged on. If they include it, they get ragged on for price. And who's to say PS2 BC isn't going to come back via software? You have no idea.

BC is only now getting dropped in favor of the $99 PS2 option. MS is able to offer a lower cost console by making the hard drive, HDMI, wifi, and HD playback optional. And now you're ragging on Sony for separating the cost of PS2 playback? That doesn't make any sense and you know it.

quote:
That is pretty much the bottom line. The trust of the consumers


Stop speaking for other people with sensationalist propaganda. Also, what relevance does ATRAC have in the console debate? That's like bringing up Vista DRM to bash the 360. Buy a clue, please.


RE: blah
By BansheeX on 1/11/2008 10:16:16 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
No the 40gb model drops both Hardware and Software emulation.


This statement is misleading (see responses for confusion it's generated). To clarify what has happened: all models retain PS1 emulation (pure software, always has been). PS2 emulation (software/hardware hybrid) has been dropped on the 40gb model in favor of the $99 PS2. Pure software PS2 emulation has never been implemented and may or may not be in the future.


RE: blah
By MasterTactician on 1/11/2008 11:18:17 AM , Rating: 2
With current availability of PS2 emulation on the PC, it is possible that Sony is dropping hardware PS2 emulation with the plan of adding full software PS2 emulation to the 40GB (and possibly 80GB) PS3 at a later date. Remember, the software emulation on the 80GB PS3 only emulates the Emotion Engine (CPU), while relying on the PS2's GPU (hardware) to function, as BansheeX points out.


RE: blah
By mmntech on 1/10/2008 8:22:30 PM , Rating: 2
Supposedly the 80gb is only compatible with about 80% of games while the 60gb is compatible with almost 100%. The 80gb also reportedly has worse frame rates in some games. As for a list, here's a link for the US models. Just enter the game title and select your PS3 model.
http://www.us.playstation.com/Support/CompatibleSt...

I still consider the 60gb the top of the line model. That's the one I have. I do play a few PS2 games on it since I never owned a PS2, so I'm trying out the must have titles. It's a shame they discontinued it. The big question now that a lot of 60gb owners are asking is what will happen if their PS3 breaks and needs to be exchanged. Does Sony have extra 60gb stockpiled for that purpose or will they send an 80gb. The latter is what a lot of people don't want.
The 80gb in reality is not cheaper but the same price when you take away the game. So your trading BC for 20gb more HDD space. Not worth it IMO.


RE: blah
By goku on 1/11/2008 4:29:40 AM , Rating: 1
Don't forget that the PS3 80GB can't even play AAA titles such as GTAIII and GT4! People generally assume that titles that aren't supported aren't big titles but in this case it isn't true.


RE: blah
By Etsp on 1/11/2008 9:11:07 AM , Rating: 2
Try using his link...The site says it has "No major problems for this title" for GTAIII either the old hardware BC, or the new software BC. Although I admit that GT4 does have problems on the software emulation side of things... but that should get resolved eventually.


RE: blah
By TALENT on 1/11/08, Rating: 0
RE: blah
By jtyson on 1/10/2008 7:40:18 PM , Rating: 2
I'm assuming you live in Japan, where this news would actually affect you.


RE: blah
By BansheeX on 1/11/08, Rating: 0
RE: blah
By kellehair on 1/11/2008 10:05:07 AM , Rating: 2
How could you think otherwise? BC was promised and should be easy enough to deliver. Why should Sony drop it?

And as for HD compatability, having it as an addon makes pretty good sense. What if BD had failed? What would people think about having had paid extra for it on their PS3? At least on the 360 they had an option.


RE: blah
By SirLucius on 1/11/2008 10:21:24 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
How could you think otherwise? BC was promised and should be easy enough to deliver. Why should Sony drop it?


They do still offer it in the form of the more expensive 80GB model, at least if you're out of Japan. Yes, it's not fully backwards compatible, but most games work fine, and because it's software based, Sony has been able to update and improve compatibility. But I doubt that they made this decision without considering the market. Notice that they don't even offer the 80GB model in Japan. It may be that Japanese gamers aren't really playing PS2 games on their PS3, and are still using their PS2's, I don't know. But I'm sure Sony knows more about that market than we do.

If you want it, you pay for it. That's how it works for just about all consumer electronics. Those that want more features/better performance/a higher end model pay for it. That's all Sony is doing here. Users who don't care about BC or extra features (USB ports, card readers, etc) can get the cheaper model and spend less money. Users that want those features pay more.


RE: blah
By BansheeX on 1/11/2008 10:31:43 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
How could you think otherwise? BC was promised and should be easy enough to deliver. Why should Sony drop it?


Uhhh... these BC stories have been discussed to DEATH numerous times on dailytech. It's not easy to do with pure software, hardware inclusive models have been made and will be available first or second hand for those that want them, the PS2 is still being made and sold. I mean... what are you asking for, exactly? Can I just ask that?

quote:
And as for HD compatability, having it as an addon makes pretty good sense. What if BD had failed? What would people think about having had paid extra for it on their PS3? At least on the 360 they had an option.


No, it doesn't. Since BD is also used by games with capacity and spinning speed (noise) benefits, it doesn't really affect the resale value of the console if it fails. A separate, movie-specific add-on, however...


Business question
By Mach Omega on 1/10/2008 8:54:53 PM , Rating: 5
Ask yourself this question...

If your last-gen console is still selling like hotcakes and your next-gen console is considered "too expensive" by many, largely because you actually built a version of your last-gen console into your next-gen console via hardware, what do you do?

That's right, REMOVE the backward compatibility from the next-gen console because that is COSTING you money and focus on selling a last-gen console to anyone who wants to play last-gen games because that MAKES you money.

It's simple... you are going to pay for the right to play last-gen games REGARDLESS, either by paying a premium for a PS3 or buying a PS2. If you are running Sony, which makes more sense to you? So, to offer your next-gen system at a more attractive pricepoint, it's better to remove BC because anyone that wants the feature can just buy a PS2 which is actually LESS EXPENSIVE overall than buying a BC PS3. The only issue is convenience from a space perspective. It's actually CHEAPER to own a non-BC PS3 + PS2 than it is to own a BC PS3 and makes much better business sense for Sony.

The PS2 is still selling strong and it will be cheaper to put BC back into the PS3 later in its lifespan. This is really a non-issue.

BC is one of those conveniences that most gamers want so Sony put it in, even though the feature greatly contributed to the PS3's price. If anything, Sony should have scrapped BC from the beginning to bring the PS3 to the market at a better price but didn't want to deal with fallout such as this. It's completely an issue of perception... BC is NOT FREE REGARDLESS. Sony isn't taking away a "free" feature. You pay for it either in the PS3 or from buying a PS2.




RE: Business question
By megastore on 1/10/2008 9:20:49 PM , Rating: 2
Now that Japanese models are matching with US models (pluse white ceramic ones)...
I'm just glad to get the last of 60GB during Black Friday. There are just too many PS2 games I haven't finished off, and putting two consoles battling out for limited space didn't make much sense. That, and 60GB upscales PS2 games pretty nicely without having to go through compatibility list. Not to mention that two Blu-Ray movies I bought won't be lost in vain.


RE: Business question
By Mach Omega on 1/10/2008 9:53:19 PM , Rating: 2
Hey I'm not crazy... I have a 60 gig too ;) I'm just trying to show that Sony isn't just gaffling a freebie. Sometimes, just sometimes, Sony makes a decision that isn't "evil," just better business.


RE: Business question
By TALENT on 1/11/2008 11:13:05 AM , Rating: 2
Ok... I don't know how many time this has to be said but..

Sony is not removing backwards compatibility (except for the 40gb model). It's just moving to a purely software based model.

Still there though and works great.


Better to have loved and lost...
By Roffles on 1/10/2008 10:35:21 PM , Rating: 2
PS2 games don't look that good at all on an HDTV. One day I was playing Heavenly Sword and then popped in Prince of Persia. On my 40" Samsung, I quickly realized that I couldn't go back to standard definition games...the difference is just to drastic to make the actual gameplay enjoyable. I would like to think this news isn't too dramatic for gamers with HD Televisions.




RE: Better to have loved and lost...
By neothe0ne on 1/11/2008 12:18:24 AM , Rating: 2
That's why you use Component cables and play 480p or above console games (basically 99% of the GameCube library, ironically, which carries over to the Wii)


RE: Better to have loved and lost...
By Roffles on 1/11/2008 12:28:25 AM , Rating: 2
Ahh, thanks for the knowledge. I will try this. Standard def games look like crap with an HDMI cable.


RE: Better to have loved and lost...
By SirLucius on 1/11/2008 12:28:57 AM , Rating: 2
It kinda depends on the game. With the upscaling settings set, newer PS2 games can look decent. I didn't play any PS2 games when I had my PS3 hooked up to my dad's 46" Samsung over the holidays, so I'm sure there's quite a difference between that and the 22" BenQ HD monitor I'm running my PS3 through. But I have yet to find a PS2 game that scales so poorly that it detracts from the gameplay.


By wallijonn on 1/18/2008 2:29:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I have yet to find a PS2 game that scales so poorly that it detracts from the gameplay.


Try Grandia III or any of the Wild Arms games.

The Dark Cloud and Kingdom Hearts games look okay, though.


80GB?
By SirLucius on 1/10/2008 5:56:17 PM , Rating: 2
So I assume the 80GB is either not available/has been discontinued in Japan as well? While it doesn't have hardware emulation, it does have software emulation for the majority of PS2 titles last I checked.

It seems weird that they wouldn't offer any backwards compatible models, even if they had to charge a premium, considering the spacial constraints in Japan.




RE: 80GB?
By Marcus Yam on 1/10/2008 7:48:20 PM , Rating: 2
80GB is not available in Japan. When I was in Tokyo during Christmas, the larger stores still had ample stock of the 20, 40, and 60GB machines.

The white one looked really, really sexy. I would have grabbed one if it still had the PS2 BC.


RE: 80GB?
By V2K on 1/10/2008 8:54:58 PM , Rating: 2
so is the Japanese 40GB a different config or does it also lose 2 USB ports and the memory card readers? If not that means there are no flash memory PS3 options in Japan either.

I always thought Compact Flash was outdated and a waste of time on the original but the SD card slot is pretty useful.


NO BACK-COMPATIBILITY? COUNT ME OUT
By maxcue on 1/11/2008 12:20:27 AM , Rating: 2
Sony has just lost the mild interest I had in someday buying a PS3. Beautiful product, a little expensive, but worth it for the BluRay player IF if played back PS2 titles as well as new stuff. They will just have to do without my massively modest disposeable income; it will diverted elsewhere. Did Sony learn NOTHING from UDM, ATRAAC and BETAMAX? Make your products MORE useful and compatible, SONY, not LESS.




RE: NO BACK-COMPATIBILITY? COUNT ME OUT
By deeznuts on 1/11/2008 12:25:29 AM , Rating: 2
you live in Japan or Europe? if not, you can still grab the 80GB.


RE: NO BACK-COMPATIBILITY? COUNT ME OUT
By goku on 1/11/08, Rating: 0
By Torched on 1/11/2008 9:35:45 AM , Rating: 2
Use your own link. GTA III works with no problems. GT4 does not but there is no guarantee it will remain like this. All the major FW updates contained backwards compatibility fixes. Besides, the remaining stock of 60GB models cost the same at retail as the 80GB.


Alright...
By daftrok on 1/10/2008 5:53:05 PM , Rating: 2
Now stop making PS2's and cut 100 bucks more off the price of the PS3, making the 40GB PS3 $299 and the 80GB PS3 $399. If you're gonna be idiots and be the only next generation console without backwards compatibility then you might as well stop making PS2's and save us more money when we buy the PS3.




RE: Alright...
By daftrok on 1/10/08, Rating: -1
RE: Alright...
By BansheeX on 1/11/2008 12:47:47 AM , Rating: 2
But they still make money on the PS2 as a low-budget gaming device. Continuing to offer it and revise it is in part what validates the PS3 dropping BC. Your statement about not having BC is false because all models have PS1 emulation, and you also fail to make the distinction that Nintendo and MS no longer produce or miniaturize their previous-gen consoles.


RE: Alright...
By wallijonn on 1/18/2008 2:36:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
cut 100 bucks more off the price of the PS3, making the 40GB PS3 $299 and the 80GB PS3 $399.


If you had applied for a Sony Style credit card this past holiday season, they would give you $100 off the balance two months later after purchasing a PS3. In effect I will have paid $299 for my PS3/40.


I'm not a console gamer but......
By Domicinator on 1/10/2008 6:00:51 PM , Rating: 1
This whole PS3 thing seems mishandled. Even if they lower the price to make up for the lack of PS2 compatibility, you still have to go out and get a PS2 to play your old games. I'm assuming a lot of PS2 fans sold their PS2s to help pay for their new PS3s, right? That's what I would have done.

Whether Sony denies it or not, it's only a matter of time before this hits in the US and then the real complaining will start. And I'm not saying this as any kind of "fanboy". I game on my PC. But as an outsider looking in, the PS3 just seems like a serious misstep by Sony to me.




By kyp275 on 1/10/2008 7:18:44 PM , Rating: 2
if you have to sell your PS2 to be able to afford a PS3, you probably shouldn't buy a PS3.

besides, how much can you sell a used PS2 for? $40? not exactly a whole lot.


By TheDuke84 on 1/10/2008 7:27:13 PM , Rating: 2
Not everyone need PS2-compatibility. I have no PS2 games and got the 40GB thus saving $100. It's only another choice for consumers. PS2 gamers should do some research before buying/complaining.

I'm not a full time gamer and will enjoy PS3 games from time to time. They could still keep PS2-compatibility in bigger models(80gb) to cut down on the number of wires for those PS2 gamers unless they to sell more second TVs. ;)


Oh great, THANKS Sony...
By sgtdisturbed47 on 1/12/2008 8:42:58 PM , Rating: 2
Without backwards compatibility, I would see no reason to own a PS3. Quite a few people own a hefty selection of PS2 games.

Bad move, in my opinion.




RE: Oh great, THANKS Sony...
By kondor999 on 1/12/2008 9:40:50 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. GT4 looks MUCH better on my PS3 due to the smoothing algorithms and loads a lot faster too. I really want to thank my ex-wife for getting me a 60gb model last Christmas!


Umm..
By gradoman on 1/10/2008 5:05:56 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not done with the last generation yet & by the time I get back to it, I might be able to have only one or two consoles under the tv. What do I do?!

/holds breath for full software emulation




RE: Umm..
By Murst on 1/10/2008 5:45:17 PM , Rating: 1
0. Don't buy a PS3,
1. or get a second tv,
2. or make more room,
3. or ebay
4. or don't do anything.

I'm sure you have other options as well.


Wow
By f1r3s1d3 on 1/10/2008 9:43:31 PM , Rating: 1
I'm surprised Japan has been living with the 20GB & the 60GB when America has had the 40GB & the 80GB for so long.

I love my 80GB. The games rock (namely Uncharted, COD4 & Resistance: FOM; plus Gran Turismo 5 Prologue and GTA IV coming). BluRay on my Aquos is just amazing too. IMO, the PS3 combines the best of the Wii (motion sensing) and the Xbox360 (a lot of stuff) in to one great, sleek, bang for the buck console. :)




RE: Wow
By Mach Omega on 1/10/08, Rating: 0
RE: Wow
By Mach Omega on 1/11/2008 2:42:58 AM , Rating: 1
Damn, I didn't mean that EYE would have downrated it. I just mean that the XClan360 would have ripped it. I own a PS3.

Dang.


It Was Coming
By BansheeX on 1/11/2008 12:41:22 AM , Rating: 2
It's already been speculated that work may be silently getting done on a pure software emulator, which may be one of the reasons a higher priced BC model is getting scrapped entirely. This can't be expected, though. The important thing is that the PS2 is still being made and still getting revisions. It has been reported that the latest revision will be offered for $99. This will not cannibalize next-gen sales because it is in its own price point.




STUNNING MODELS.....AGAIN!!
By Combatcolin on 1/11/2008 1:43:28 PM , Rating: 2
Does Anandtech have a huge external drive somewhere with pics of thousands of stunning oriental models?

Every time some tech story from the Far East pops up (every day) out come the Booth Babes.

Drool.




Make way for the future
By Byakugan on 1/16/2008 4:33:48 AM , Rating: 2
Well guys WHO CARES about ps2 compatibility thats what you have a actual ps2 for.Sony dropped the BC for ps2 to make it cheaper for you ppl to buy.I personally prefer it like that drop the stupid BC and make way for the future games.Don't be like the ppl that complain about the blu-ray drive on the ps3 ,you don't like TOUGH




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